Author Topic: Case Study - Recently laid off - need help to review financial situation  (Read 5490 times)

bornInFlorida

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Life Situation:
Married
Me - 44,
DW - 37
Two kids, ages, 7, 8

Income:
My Gross salary per year (prior to layoff): $160,000
Wife’s Gross salary per year: $115,000


Approx Current Expenses (yearly).

Auto, $7,000 (no car payments, gas, maintenance and comprehensive car Insurance)
Clothing, $6,400
Dining out, $ 6,400
Education, $ 12,000 (kids camp during summer, some private tutoring, childcare, kids do go to public school)
Groceries, $10,000
Life Insurance, $1,100
Housing, $2,500 (shampoo, laundry detergent, new furniture/replacement of anything breaking etc. )
Medical, $1,200
Personal Care, $3,000
Recreation, $8,000 (personal travel, vacation related etc.)
Rent Expense, $25,200 (decent deal on my rent from a family member who is the landlord. Market rate would be $48K per year)
Subscriptions, $6,000 (group fitness classes, kids swimming, kids tennis classes etc.)
Telephones and Internet, $2,088
Utilities, $4,000

Total expenses per year are $94,100 per year


Assets:

Tax Advantage accounts (Rollover IRA, Roth IRA, Health Equity, 401K):
$666,000

Brokerage (non tax advantage):
$650,000

The assets in Tax advantage accounts and Brokerage are invested with an Asset allocation of (80% stocks, 20% bonds). Funds being VTSAX and VBTLX. The bond fund is only in tax advantage accounts due to tax efficiency.

Former Primary Home now a rental property (about 6 hours driving distance from current residence). Still in a position where I can sell this and avoid paying capital taxes since I have lived there for two years out of the past five years.
Market Value $550,000
Mortgage outstanding  $260,000
Cash flow - Breaks even on a yearly basis (considering vacancy, repairs etc.)
I am keeping the above property mainly because it is in a top notch neighborhood and expect decent appreciation overtime (not beyond stock market historical returns). May sell this property once we purchase a new home around the area we currently rent and use the equity in the rental to pay towards the new home mortgage.

Cash
$250,000
The cash above is sitting in a Money Market account. I am keeping it there as a down payment on a primary residence. For the time being, I am deferring the purchase of a primary residence (which will cost about $700K) because not only will it make our expenses go up but will also increase my wife’s work commute and my proximity to quality jobs.

Liabilities:
No other liabilities, apart from the mortgage on the rental property listed above.

Summary of Assets:
Current Investments in Stock Market: $1,316,000
Equity in Rental Property: $205,000 (after selling expenses - real estate commission etc., fix up etc.)
Cash reserves to purchase primary residence: $250,000

Other info:
Currently renting in a HCOL area.
While I consider myself as Mustachian, my Wife not so much. She rather enjoy the material luxuries of life and doesn’t mind working longer in the corporate world. For me, I value my time & freedom over being forced to work.

Questions:

1. Please provide optimizations on the above? Since my wife is not a mustachian, I can’t trim the budget much. I have tried methods/ideas recommended by others on this forum but DW is not ready for any major/decent shift in cutting any costs.

2. I am considering taking a few months off from work before going back to work. However, a part of me also tells me to defer freedom and gratification for later once I achieve the FIRE number. My FIRE number (for me and wife) assuming we purchase a new home (about $700K) would be $2,775,000. The home purchase will mean a new mortgage, property tax, HOA and insurance. My yearly expense will increase to $111,000. FIRE number calculated = 25 years * 111,000 = $2,775,000. Any comments here?

3. Any other constructive financial feedback would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 10:59:38 AM by bornInFlorida »

gpyros85

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What part of Florida has a market rate rent of $4,000/month? I think this might be your problem here, surrounded by large spenders...  Big lavish lifestyle all around.


Florida is a wonder state, I was born and raised there, can be extremely expensive or very cheap.. i.e. 750k homes next to 150k homes in certain parts...

Paul der Krake

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Well, you can't sustain your current spending with just your wife's income. Something has to give.

The good news is that you can trim $1,000-3,000 in almost every line item of this ridiculous budget of yours, with little effort.

bornInFlorida

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@lhamo Thanks for the feedback. I consider myself mustachian. However, my spouse is not. I have tried converting her over but I can't force her to. From time to time, I do leverage the suggestions posted in another thread on how to convert your SO but it hasn't made too much of a difference to her.

@gpyros85 Thanks for reviewing the content. I never said I currently reside in Florida. I am far from Florida in HCOL area.

@Paul der Krake Thanks for the suggestion.

gpyros85

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@lhamo Thanks for the feedback. I consider myself mustachian. However, my spouse is not. I have tried converting her over but I can't force her to. From time to time, I do leverage the suggestions posted in another thread on how to convert your SO but it hasn't made too much of a difference to her.

@gpyros85 Thanks for reviewing the content. I never said I currently reside in Florida. I am far from Florida in HCOL area.

@Paul der Krake Thanks for the suggestion.


Made a slight assumption due to username!

The Fake Cheap

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Other info:
Currently renting in a HCOL area.
While I consider myself as Mustachian, my Wife not so much. She rather enjoy the material luxuries of life and doesn’t mind working longer in the corporate world. For me, I value my time & freedom over being forced to work.

I feel your pain here, I like to consider myself a mustachian, my wife, not so much, although not quite to the same extent as your wife it seems.  Please be advised if you buy a nice house (250k as a downpayment scream nice house to me), your wife will want nice things in it, and since you have a nice house you are going to need a nice car/cars to go in the driveway. Neighoubrs have boats?  You'll have a boat.   

Not much advise to give other than the obvious...many areas where you can easily trim expenses, so at least there is that.

Good luck!

gpyros85

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Former Primary Home now a rental property (about 6 hours driving distance from current residence):
Market Value $550,000
Mortgage outstanding  $260,000
Cash flow - Breaks even on a yearly basis (considering vacancy, repairs etc.)
I am keeping the above property mainly because it is in a top notch neighborhood and expect decent appreciation overtime (not beyond stock market historical returns). May sell this property once we purchase a new home around the area we currently rent and use the equity in the rental to pay towards the new home mortgage.


How long ago did you live in this property? If it was recent you seriously would want to think about the tax consequences of selling NOW vs later.... I think it is 2 our the last 5 years to avoid....

reeshau

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I will add to the chorus that you could look at a SAHP option.  Is it a goal, or would you find it a benefit, to spend more time with your kids?  Do you like to cook? It seems like there are tens of thousands of dollars that you could  free up by adjusting what you do, to reach a balance that seems to match the future your both imagine, even if that isn't exactly the same thing.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 06:55:25 AM by reeshau »

jlcnuke

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Quote
Auto, $7,000 (no car payments, mainly gas and maintenance) - Ridiculously high here. Are you driving a couple Ferraris to have maintenance and gas that high? My BMW didn't cost that much in gas and maintenance over 5 years, including fixing things that broke! You can almost certainly drop these expenses by a massive amount without negatively impacting your wife's quality of life (unless she needs that Ferrari)
Clothing, $6,400 -Again, tons of room to drop these costs. At $100/outfit, that's 64 outfits being bought every year, and $100/outfit is way more than necessary. At $30/outfit you're buying more than 50 outfits per person every year. Buying few clothes and/or a bit less expensive clothes should not hurt anyone.
Dining out, $ 6,400 -Go out half as often... cook a nice meal at home for a fraction of the price the other half when you would have went out to eat. Large savings, little impact...
Education, $ 12,000 (kids camp during summer, some private tutoring, childcare, kids do go to public school)
Groceries, $10,000
Life Insurance, $1,100
Housing, $2,500 (shampoo, laundry detergent, new furniture/replacement of anything breaking etc. )
Medical, $1,200
Personal Care, $3,000 ~$250/month on what? Shampoo etc is covered above, so are you having $250 worth of haircuts every month? Seems massively excessive..probably room to drop these costs without significant impact on anyone's quality of life... maybe get that expensive haircut every 6 weeks instead of every month?
Recreation, $8,000 (personal travel, vacation related etc.)
Rent Expense, $25,200 (decent deal on my rent from a family member who is the landlord. Market rate would be $48K per year)
Subscriptions, $6,000 (group fitness classes, kids swimming, kids tennis classes etc.)
Telephones and Internet, $2,800 Shop around because $233/month for cell phones and internet is way overpriced.
Utilities, $4,000

Some quick notes on your spending, specifically items that are easy to reduce without hurting your quality of life.


Kierun

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SNIP

How long ago did you live in this property? If it was recent you seriously would want to think about the tax consequences of selling NOW vs later.... I think it is 2 our the last 5 years to avoid....
Yes, definitely keep this in mind.  With almost 300k difference between market price and remaining obligation, the tax implications are worth noting.

bornInFlorida

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All, thank you for your suggestions. I've updated the original post with the following:

I can still sell the rental property and avoid paying capital taxes. Lived there 2 years out of the last 5 year exclusion.

I updated my Telephone and internet expenses. I had taken the number from last year when I had verizon. I have switched carriers and the new number is lower.

@lhamo  excellent suggestions regarding the becoming a household manager and the other recommendations you gave. Thank you.

@jlcnuke  thanks for your review of my expenses. The auto and telephone categories I have more control over and will do more optimizations there.

doggyfizzle

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RE can you take time off (4 months)?

Yes, you have the asset base (plus income from your wife's job) to do just that.  Are you eligible for unemployment or severance from your former position?

On a different note, the rental property needs to go.  While you've got significant equity in the property, you aren't benefiting in any meaningful way by "breaking even" each month, especially if you're anticipating lower than stock market returns.  If you're dead-set on buying a $700k primary residence, sell the rental and roll the equity over as a down payment, and invest the $250k of cash you've got in the bank, and you could work a basic part-time job and combined with your wife's income and decreased childcare/tutoring expenses you should be set financially.

Also, $6500/year on clothing?  I mean that's $80k lost assuming 5% returns and $6500/year on clothing over a decade of spending. 

bornInFlorida

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@lhamo  thanks for the additional tip. Regarding further suggestions on additional categories, feel free to suggest any other that comes to mind. I do think the others are where my wife exudes significant control. Such as clothing, dinning out, personal care. Can’t do much. Not an excuse but she is the type that likes working hard and playing hard also. For her play hard means being able to spend money on nice clothes, going out to a nice fine dinning place etc.

@doggyfizzle  thank you. Excellent suggestion regarding the rental. And yes, I am eligible for unemployment which these days is about six months.

bornInFlorida

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@lhamo excellent points. thank you. You made me aware of several things that are within my control that could reduce expenses. Appreciate the feedback. thank you. :-)

red_pill

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OP,  your income and spending are very similar  to what mine was. And my wife was also very reluctant to make cuts.. But I’m happy to report my wife is becoming increasingly on board (and doing a great job of keeping me on the right path when I get weak). But it was all in how I approached it.

I tried the “honey, according to this blog I read no amount of spending will actually result in happiness, ergo we can reduce spending in all categories without resulting in unhappiness. Hedonic adaptation, don’t you know. Now, let’s start cutting.”   Guess how well that went over.

Anytime I said our spending was high she would have a retort. Yeah but our mortgage is lower than our neighbors. Yeah but we don’t buy nice clothes like our friends do.  Yeah but we have good pensions. . Etc etc.  All true statements, but totally irrelevant to my assertion that we were (and still are but it’s getting better ) hemorrhaging cash.

What I found was instead of suggested we cut something, I’d just find a replacement for it.  Want to eat out less?  Then when she suggests going out for dinner you say you wanted to make something special for dinner and have a family movie night. Who can say no to that? No one.

I did this flanking attack on a number of areas and it has been successful.

My other tactic was to lay out how much our paychecks were and then what payments for stuff were coming out in the next two weeks, and then how much was left over for spending. That was an eye opener and there were a few weeks where we were in the red.  Scary shit. But I never said anything about it - I just said, “oh, here’s the financial projection for the next two week” and show her the numbers. (Okay several times I failed at remaining calm and had some nice freak outs). But until she saw it written out like that she had no idea.  Our spending was so mindless and unconscious that we didn’t even know how much was flying out the door. We do now.

We now talk about money a lot more, and in a more positive way. Instead of focusing on cuts and what we DON’T want to do with our money (which made us feel like we were depriving ourselves), we talk more about what we DO want to do with it. And that makes it seem like spending it elsewhere is depriving us of what we actually want. Total reversal.

Anyway, I bet your wife’s spending habits aren’t as immutable as you  think.  MMM is a rational endeavour.  Hell, it’s  far more rational than the bullshit lifestyle we’ve all been conditioned to want. But it takes a bit of deprogramming to get over that conditioning, which I think is best done through small doses. Small, iterative steps.  That’s been working for me, although I’m very much early on.

Good luck!

bornInFlorida

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@red_pill  & @Finances_With_Purpose   - Thank you for sharing your stories and examples.

ohmylookatthat

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just ignore the hate from the el cheapos here. you're doing fine