Author Topic: Case study - Mustachian in the Nordics  (Read 1678 times)

Ekonomist

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Case study - Mustachian in the Nordics
« on: August 28, 2018, 03:02:37 AM »
Life situation:
I am a 38 year old who live with a relatively frugal SO with whom I have 3 children(age 4 and twins 3 months) in a Nordic country. We are both EU citizens. We live in a HCOL city in region that is by itself quite high cost and high tax. Actually, I believe that basic things (food, housing-cost) etc might be one of the most expensive in the world. My SO is also a stanch opponent to FIRE, but that is a different story. All figures will be for my half of our economy.
Gross Salary
Yearly $120k (2017), ca $130k (2018) of which 30-35k is bonus.
Pre-tax deductions: None
Taxes: $42k Total after tax (2017): $78K
Expenses:
We each pay a share of expenses divided on what we have in income. This means that I pay roughly 66% of these.
Shared expenses (below numbers is 66% of their actual costs):

Communal fee housing - $276 month
Child care (1 child) - $252 month
Food (and diapers etc) – $534 month
Total: $1062 month

“Personal expenses”
Interest on house loan (shared 50-50): $300
Car expenses (bike to work, but use car on weekends): $300
Food/restaurants inc. lunch at work: $72
Travel (SO comes from another European country): $120 month
Health related (had some dentistry work done): $104
Other (shared expenses paid by me, expenses for children: $ 223
Total: $1119

Amortization on the loan: $480
Expenses total: $2181 month
Total outflow: $2661 month
Internet and phone is paid by work

Assets:
After tax brokerage: 31k
After tax self owned investment company*: 275k
Value of home (my half): 361k
Private pension fund (from 62-72): 30K
Other pension(from 62 to end of life): 120k
Total assets (including home): 456k (817k)

Liabilities
Debt on home: 204k (2% interest)
Student loan: 30k (0,13% interest, I sh#t you not)
Total liabilities: 234k
Equity: 222k (583k)

It is cheaper to rent then it is to buy in our city, but SO will not accept to rent again, and we need to provide a stable life for our kids. Average price per m2 is $8400 in this city. Renting a similar abode would cost me ca $3 000.

*For tax purposes I have a company that I put all my after tax savings in. This is primarily to reduce capital gains tax which are high. I can also use the company to later take out money in the way I chose (repayment of the money I have lent the company, interest on that loan, dividends, salary etc), whichever is taxed the lowest. Could also use it to move to a low tax region (Portugal I am looking at you) and then take out the funds.

Questions:
What is my net worth? (what about that home!?)

Take into consideration that Private pension fund can only be accessed at 62 and needs to be paid out over 10 years minimum. And Other pension it is not clear how this will be paid out as it is not part of a pay-as-you go system.

Where am I spending too much?

What SWR are other Nordic/Europeans aiming at given that we have universal healthcare and free education (from age 6-7)?

elliha

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 453
Re: Case study - Mustachian in the Nordics
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2018, 08:17:52 AM »
It is a bit hard to know what to comment on when you have not listed which Nordic country we are discussing. Sweden?

havregryn

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 639
Re: Case study - Mustachian in the Nordics
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2018, 09:32:24 AM »
I would also bet Sweden because some things you mention definitely pertain to Sweden and may not, as far as I know, apply to the rest of the Nordics in the same way.

You are earning a lot of money, I don't think you need to do much else, if I calculate correctly you can save 50 000$ a year just you,  which sounds amazing. Can't imagine any additional savings you could do would make much difference. Your interest rate is the only thing that shakes my theory that you're in fact in Sweden, but it sounds high no matter where in Europe you are. Surely you could have lower?

I have to admit that I find it hard to relate to this way of thinking about assets (you have three kids with this woman and you split your assets and expenses like this, to me that feels very weird and foreign but I do get it that it seems to be a bit of a Swedish thing (I am not a Swede).
So I may be biased but from my point of view, you have very little financial challenges ahead, you are saving a fortune and you know where you live (freebies from the government all the way).  A bigger issue to ponder is how exactly it is going to work for you to FIRE and your SO to not FIRE if you are putting Portugal on the table and if you are paying household expenses according to some kind of a weird income based formula. I mean, if you artificially draw your income down to 1000 USD a month then you are only liable for a tiny part of household expenses?
Did you discuss all this thoroughly with your SO?
My husband has also lost all of his interest in FIRE and wants to keep working but our take on it is that we have an amount of net worth that makes us both feel secure...at that point I can stop working. He will keep working and his ongoing income is going to be covering our expenses. We are not trying to grow separate stashes but we are also married, making that a legal impossibility anyway.

Ekonomist

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Case study - Mustachian in the Nordics
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2018, 03:18:54 AM »
I would also bet Sweden because some things you mention definitely pertain to Sweden and may not, as far as I know, apply to the rest of the Nordics in the same way.

You are earning a lot of money, I don't think you need to do much else, if I calculate correctly you can save 50 000$ a year just you,  which sounds amazing. Can't imagine any additional savings you could do would make much difference. Your interest rate is the only thing that shakes my theory that you're in fact in Sweden, but it sounds high no matter where in Europe you are. Surely you could have lower?

I have to admit that I find it hard to relate to this way of thinking about assets (you have three kids with this woman and you split your assets and expenses like this, to me that feels very weird and foreign but I do get it that it seems to be a bit of a Swedish thing (I am not a Swede).
So I may be biased but from my point of view, you have very little financial challenges ahead, you are saving a fortune and you know where you live (freebies from the government all the way).  A bigger issue to ponder is how exactly it is going to work for you to FIRE and your SO to not FIRE if you are putting Portugal on the table and if you are paying household expenses according to some kind of a weird income based formula. I mean, if you artificially draw your income down to 1000 USD a month then you are only liable for a tiny part of household expenses?
Did you discuss all this thoroughly with your SO?
My husband has also lost all of his interest in FIRE and wants to keep working but our take on it is that we have an amount of net worth that makes us both feel secure...at that point I can stop working. He will keep working and his ongoing income is going to be covering our expenses. We are not trying to grow separate stashes but we are also married, making that a legal impossibility anyway.
Thanks for your reply. To clarify a little, I am indeed swedish but we live in Norway (hence the higher interest rates/salary) and to make things more interesting my SO is French. You could say we are a real EU/EEA couple. As you have rightfully pointed out there are a few gaps in my FIRE plan that directly relate to my SO. I would happily work another few years if it could mean that we are FIRE together. And that is hopefully where we end up, but until I get her onboard my thinking has been that I should plan for that not to happen. If I could pull the trigger without her being onboard is unclear today, probably not.

When it comes to division of expenses, the though is since I make roughly twice as much as my SO I pay a larger share of the costs. In my calculation I will continue to pay more even after FIRE eventhou I would live on much less than my SO. I am affraid that if I ask her to pay more of our common expenses she would resent my FIRE plans even more.

When I reach my FIRE goal in a few years; we could FIRE together if we use locational arbitrage in locations like Portugal or France (outside larger cities). Or if we chose to stay in Norway I could retire and she can continue working as she says she wishes to. The problem is that she is not very happy talking about FIRE saying that it is "not something people do".

Maybe what I really need is help to connect with my SO.

kei te pai

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 504
Re: Case study - Mustachian in the Nordics
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2018, 02:20:38 PM »
Seems as though your last sentence is really what matters.
What does your partner want for your family in the future? How does she see life in 10 years time?
Maybe what you both need is some shared goals. Rather than trying to get her on board, take some time to listen to her thoughts and see if there is some common ground.