Author Topic: UPDATE Case Study - What to do with a car?  (Read 2958 times)

Ellamay

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 9
UPDATE Case Study - What to do with a car?
« on: March 25, 2018, 06:52:48 PM »
UPDATE: We sold the car! We used an app to do it that took care of the title from the bank and collected money from the seller. We sold it for 8k and it's book value was 8500 so we were pretty happy with that. We sold pretty much anything we could to get some extra cash including a portion of our magic the gathering collection. We now have our emergency fund built back up no car payment and our insurance is down to $43 a month from $170! We plan to continue paying everything off and growing our monthly income. Thanks for all the suggestions.



So my husband and I financed a car and it was definitely a bad idea. We are trying to figure out what our best decision would be from here. We already know the dealership way overcharged us for its value and know either way we lose money. Should we keep it or try to find a way to get rid of it?

We owe about $12500 on it and it's worth $8100. It's a 2008 Subaru Outback. We currently have about $5000 we can put down on it. Since we still owe the bank we have found it pretty hard in our area to sell it privately without the title. So my question is should we take the face punch and just pay all of it off and keep it? Save up another 2k and trade it in to a dealership and buy a cheaper car or keep trying to sell it privately?

 We could also theoretically go down to one car our paid off '98 toyota camry. If it brakes down my husband could bike to work or Uber.

Our loan is 5% and $236 a month. Insurance is $130 and this Subi takes premium gas for ~20mpg. We just replaced the timing belt for about $800. We can afford the payments but would rather roll all that into a 401k instead of a car. I guess we just don't want to make this bad situation any worse and want to know what you guys would do.

We make a bit over 50k. We have one credit card with 4k at 8% $150 a month and student loan payments of $300 a month. We have about $60k in those. The Toyota costs $40 in insurance and gets amazing gas mileage compared to the Subaru ~27mpg. Our rent is 1200 a month with utilities. We live in Colorado so that's actually not bad. We do lots of free activities so our spending is pretty low. I stay home but could work night and weekends to pay the car off sooner. Once our lease is up we have the option of living rent free in my parents basement so that's an option as well in the future. After our daughter is 3 child care will be a little cheaper so we could have me go back to work then but that option is still 2 years away.

We do love the car but not more than we want our freedom. Plus premium gas what were we even thinking?


So my phone is still on my parents plan and we just transfered my husbands to his grand parents plan for $20 instead of the $60 we were paying. Insurance includes renters which we have to have and $130 is the Subaru and the rest is renters and our Toyota. We cut everything we could think of so far. The $35 a month is for my daughters savings plan we don't want to touch that. We could cut netflix and we take a monthly restaurant trip but we could cut that out as well. The interest rate for the student loan at $148 is 4% and the one at $50 is 3.4%. the $110 loan has a 0% interest rate so we aren't focused on that one. I don't know the interest rate on the parent plus loan. Those numbers are at the bottom I couldn't attach it to this post.

We have about $3,500 in one student loan at 3.5%. $4,000 in another at 0%. About $17000 at 4% and $44000 in a parent plus loan that I don't know the interest amount on. Now that I looked at the numbers we have more than I thought we did.

We also pay about $240 in health insurance for my husband and daughter. That comes out of his paycheck automatically and isn't in our budget.

401k contribution just 4% to get company match.

Budget

Income:
Regular PayCheck: $2,600
Babysitting: $1,000

Savings:
Emergency Fund:$100 a month have ~$6,000 and are comfortable using 5k to pay things down.

Housing
Rent: $1,160 includes water
Internet: $60
Electric/Gas: $50
Phone: $20 down from $60 last month

Transportation
Gas: $100 we don't drive much now unless we have to.

Food
Groceries: $150 we cook all our own meals and try to use only fresh produce nothing processed.
Restaurants: $50 we go out once a month but could find a way to have a fun date night at home.

Lifestyle
Haircut: $15 I need to learn how to trim my hubby's hair
Netflix: $13 we use parents Hulu could do without this
Dollar Shave: $4 a month or $8 every other month

Insurance
Car Renters bundled through Geico: $170
Daughters savings account: $35
Health Insurance taken from paycheck : $240

Debt
Car: $236 5% interest ~$12400 left worth $8100
Credit Card: $135 8% interest ~$4000 left
Private student Loan#1: $110 0% interest ~$4000 left
student Loan #2: $50 3.4% interest ~$3500 left
Student Loan #3: $150 4% interest ~$17300 left
Parent Plus Loan: $100 unknown interest ~$44000 left

We have about $900 left over to pay things off.

I'm 24 Husband is 26 one child that's 1.

We don't have very much in investments we use cloth diapers on our baby and I don't use a dryer and hang everything. We don't want to move in with my parents but will consider it at the end of the year if we still don't have the car paid off.




« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 09:41:21 AM by Ellamay »

Tuskalusa

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 442
Re: Case Study - What to do with a car?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2018, 03:25:08 AM »
A couple of questions here:

1.  Do you like the car?  Could you realistically drive it for the next 20 years?
2.  Do you have any other debt, besides a mortgage?

Hard to lay out options without knowing a little more.

Ben Kurtz

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 144
Re: Case Study - What to do with a car?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2018, 04:47:26 AM »
You haven't shared many details, but I'm going to do the best I can to look at your situation using several of the rules of thumb I've developed:

1. Until you have a net worth of more than a million dollars, you should be extremely careful about buying too much car and/or buying the wrong car. You are not rich enough to afford motorized toys, and anything above basic transportation is at least in part a motorized toy.

2. My rule of thumb to define "too much car" for non-millionaires is based on yearly family income: $100,000 or more, you can have up to 2 cars valued at about $10,000 in the aggregate. This is because depreciation on "too much car" is a massive silent killer of wealth, above and beyond the obvious running costs of gas, insurance and maintenance. Lower your income, and the value cap lowers proportionately. Somewhere below $50,000 you should not have 2 cars at all, because the gas, insurance and maintenance alone will bog you down. Get an electric bike or motor scooter for your second set of wheels if you truly need something. But no second car -- period.

3. It sounds like your current setup is probably too much car -- it sounds like the fleet is probably worth just about $10,000, and if you had a $100,000+ income or million dollar net worth I think your story would sound different than it does. Moreover, it is very likely the wrong car. The mileage is terrible, the insurance sounds high (how much higher than your Toyota? You haven't said...) and premium fuel is a real tip-off that it has a high-performance engine and is therefore in part a toy. If this car were less expensive to run and less of a toy, the transaction costs of swapping it might mean it makes sense to suck it up and keep driving for an additional 10+ years until the wheels fall off. There's not an overwhelming amount of depreciation left in an $8,000 car, especially if it will give you reliable service for the next 10 years. But I don't quite get there on this car.

4. You should therefore sell this car and replace it with something more suitable. A 10 year old Toyota Corolla is probably fine. You've said nothing about your family's home and work setup, except that you think it may be possible to drop down to one car, which I think would be financially ideal. I would suggest you look very hard at all your options: manual bicycle, electric bicycle, moped, bus, the occasional taxi or rental car, or a combination of the foregoing. Some people would suggest motorcycle, but unless that's your thing they can be difficult and dangerous to use, and possibly a bit too much of a toy.

5. But don't rush into the trade and do it on sub-optimal terms. It's almost certainly better to hold on to this car for the next 6 to 12 months and get good pricing on its sale (and good pricing the purchase of any replacement car) than it is to bail out super quick and come out thousands of dollars further behind.

6. I would avoid trading through a dealership. They try really hard to find ways to rip you off or up-sell you on too much car. They will pay you too little for the car you are selling and charge too much for any replacement car which you buy.

7. Find a way to pay off the loan within the coming year, so you can have a clean title in hand. Then list the car on various websites and sell it privately. Over the course of the year, research your options and try different things to see if you can get by without a second car, or, if you feel you need one, which makes and models of used car are suitable. I would suggest not buying another used car until the current car is sold and the check cleared, so it doesn't make sense to shop for individual cars, but it does make sense to narrow down what you are looking for and experiment with one-car living.

8. Note that the issue here isn't the interest rate on your car loan, which I haven't mentioned until now. Five percent interest isn't bad. It's the fact that financing allowed you to buy too much car (and the wrong car) to begin with, and now you are faced with the wealth-killing effects of depreciation: A car that is currently worth a lot less than the price you paid for it, and it will continue to go down in price while costing too much to insure and run.

Let us know how things go, and good luck!

Ellamay

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Case Study - What to do with a car?
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2018, 06:29:56 AM »
Thank you I appreciate the feedback. Right now my husband works and I stay home with our baby. I don't work but I do watch another families kids and that brings in a little extra almost as much as I'd make anyway after child care costs. All together we make just a little over the 50k mark so definitely not enough for owning this car. At the time we had both salaries with me working and just didn't calculate the car into our budget with a baby. We also wanted something with 4 wheel drive because we travel once every two months to visit family through the mountains. We sat down and calculated the cost of a rental to do this and bought my husband a bike. We found it was much cheaper to rent a vehicle for occasional travel and to have him bike to work or take our older car. We even rent an apartment for a little more a month just because it's within biking distance to his work. So now we don't use this car much and we can definitely get down to one car. We already know we messed up on this purchase and just didn't want to fix this situation by making it worse. The other debt we have is about 4k on a credit card at 8% that's $150 a month and student loan payments at about $300 a month. We pay about $1200 in rent including utilities. I can work part time on the weekends and we can get this paid off quicker. We live on just my husbands income and everything I make (~1k) goes into paying all this off so we can afford to wait and keep paying it off. I'll update my posting with added info.

Freedomin5

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6533
    • FIRE Countdown
Re: Case Study - What to do with a car?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2018, 07:26:17 AM »
What’s the interest rate on the student loans? Debt snowballing would say pay off the loans with the highest interest rates first.

Also, you mentioned living off your husband’s income, which is around 50k. If you post a full case study, the wonderful folks here could likely help you squeeze a few more hundred dollars per month to throw towards your loans (so that you are living on less than your husband’s income).

Ellamay

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Case Study - What to do with a car?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2018, 07:54:00 AM »
Thanks I actually don't know the interest rate on my husband's parent plus loan. We just pay his parents once a month. I'll attach our monthly budget but I don't really think we have a ton of wiggle room. I'll keep adding info. The real problem we ran into is my husband just turned 26 so even with his works insurance the price is insane and something we didn't budget for correctly so his take home pay was less than we originally planned for.

Hadilly

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 485
Re: Case Study - What to do with a car?
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2018, 08:03:21 AM »
Pay off your credit card! 8% is a lot of interest.

Second the idea for a full case study so you can get some more granular advice.

Ellamay

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Case Study - What to do with a car?
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2018, 08:04:41 AM »
Condensed info.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2018, 10:43:13 AM by Ellamay »

Ben Kurtz

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 144
Re: Case Study - What to do with a car?
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2018, 01:18:13 PM »
Ordinarily, paying off the highest-interest loan is the best move, which would mean paying off the 8% credit card debt before the 5% car loan. But this case is different.

Not only is the car loan costing you 5% interest on the amount of the debt, it is also preventing you from selling the car. Selling the car is important, because that stops your depreciation losses and allows you to shed a fairly expensive insurance policy, as well as saving the interest cost and freeing up cash flow to tackle your other debts. The amount by which the loan is underwater prevents you from selling the car to anyone, even a dealer. Beyond that, the car loan also makes it more difficult to sell the car to private buyers, even if the balance was lower than the value of the car, because private buyers don't like to deal with complex title situations. So you'd be left selling only to dealers, who will low-ball you and cause you to miss out on $1,000 or $2,000 of the car's value. So paying off the entire car loan is important.

Your $6,000 emergency fund is not huge, and I'd suggest that you not throw it at the car loan right now. Rather, my suggestion is that you put every last extra dollar you earn in your cash savings account and wait until it gets bigger than the car loan balance. Then wait until you have another $2,000 in there, just in case. Park the car and use it only one day a week, to keep the battery fresh and the wheels turning. Start getting used to life as a one-car family.

Once you have enough savings, pay off the car loan and get the title certificate in hand. Clean the car thoroughly, have it inspected for any obvious problems, and then list the car on all the different websites (Craigslist, Cars.com, Autotrader). Get the best price you can. Once it sells you'll have perhaps $7,000 cash in hand (as this will take pretty much the rest of this year due to the loan payoff, I've depreciated the car a bit). Pay off the entire remaining balance on your 8% credit card at that point and use the rest of the cash to replenish your emergency fund.

When that is done you will have paid off two onerous loans and you will be free of an expensive, depreciating asset. You'll have an extra $500+ per month in free cash flow ($236 car payment + $135 credit card payment + $100 extra insurance + $30+ incremental gas cost). Go out for a nice dinner with your husband to celebrate.

For 2019, your goals should include: increasing 401k contributions, paying off more of that Parent Plus loan (those can have interest rates in the 6% range) and setting aside some cash to replace the ancient Toyota when its time finally comes. Increasing your family income should also be on the longer term horizon.

NoStacheOhio

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2136
  • Location: Cleveland
Re: Case Study - What to do with a car?
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2018, 01:29:30 PM »
Don't worry about putting money into your child's savings account every month. The financial needs of the whole family need to be first priority, and she's got plenty of time. Put gifts from friends and family in there, but don't make it a line item in your budget until you're debt-free.

Ellamay

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Case Study - What to do with a car?
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2018, 01:46:44 PM »
Thank you we appreciate the feedback. We kept going back and forth between trying to pay off the car or getting rid of the credit card debt first. This makes things a little more clear and we will start saving to get the car taken care of in one payment. In addition to this my husband put in to work 4 10s so that I can go out and work the other 3 and bring home a little extra and/or he can work part time depending on what makes more financial sense. I think this somewhat hard schedule will be worth it in the long run. Thanks so much for the insights!

spicykissa

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 157
Re: Case Study - What to do with a car?
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2018, 10:14:59 AM »
In addition to this my husband put in to work 4 10s so that I can go out and work the other 3 and bring home a little extra and/or he can work part time depending on what makes more financial sense. I think this somewhat hard schedule will be worth it in the long run. Thanks so much for the insights!

This is a great move, and I applaud you guys for being willing to do it! It's unfortunate you made a mistake with the car purchase, but often times having to work hard to fix a mistake is the best way to learn from it. And this experience is leading you to look closer at your financial picture as a whole (finding out the interest rate on that Plus loan, realizing the total balance is higher than you thought, etc). All good things.

Ellamay

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: UPDATE Case Study - What to do with a car?
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2018, 09:54:11 AM »
We are still waiting for my husbands work to approve a 4 day 10 hour work schedule and continuing to look for more side work. We plan to move on to the credit card next and then focus on the student loan with the worst interest.