Case Study: Can I Live Independently & Homeschool After (Unwanted) Divorce?

[The_Golden_Bee]

When I got married several years ago, I thought I was on track to live my modest dreams.  Nice husband, wee cozy house on God’s little acre in Pennsylvania, two lovely children, family nearby, homeschooling, 2 solid used cars, and Mom with a little digital project management side hustle to help us reach FI.

We weren’t a rich family, but we were contented and happy.  Or so I thought. But it all came crashing down three years ago when my husband left me for someone else.

He kept the house on God’s little acre (‘twas his before marriage).  He donated one of the cars rather than let me have it. He kept the other car.  I took the only thing that matters – the two lovely children – and moved back in with my folks in NJ.

For the past three years, I admit, I have been treading water in hopes that he would come to his senses and return.  But it hasn’t happened, and it may never happen.  Now I need to move ahead and reclaim my modest dreams on my own, but the separation has left me hemmed-in and financially devastated and I don’t know what the right direction is.  So I turn to the Mustached Minions for help.

I’ll give you all the details, but here are some of my unique opportunities and risks:
Opportunity:  Right now I live with my parents, completely free of charge. 
Opportunity: I don’t even own a car currently.  I use my parents’ and they pay for it. The reason “why” is detailed in the RISKS below (I’m not a freeloader/parasite by nature):
Risk: The other woman is not able to have children, and she desperately wants mine.
Risk: I retain primary custody of the kids ONLY because my living arrangements allow me to work part-time, from home, and spend all day with the children.  If I go back to work, in an office, full-time, my husband will move to take them from me.
Risk: While I am forever grateful to my parents for taking me in.  I am very unhappy living with them.  I feel like I am living in a hotel.  Nothing is mine. I’m always on eggshells lest I annoy them.  They are very tough to live with. (I’m sure it’s no picnic for them, either, having a middle-aged daughter and two noisy preschoolers around all the time)
Risk: If I move, I need to get my husband’s approval.  I can’t move very far, or he will try to use it as a way to get the kids.  So I am kind of stuck in northern New Jersey (this is also where my clients are).

Life Situation
In late 2015, my husband left me for another woman.  He filed for divorce, but hasn't pursued it further, so we are legally still married.
We have two small boys, ages 3 and 4
We are still married, though living apart.
IRS filing status: married-filing singly (I am head of household and I can claim both dependents)
Age: 43
Current Resident State: NJ

Gross Salary/Wages:
I am a part-time freelance project manager.  Recently, two of my old bosses have hired me to assist with projects, mostly from home.  One is paying me $32 per hour for some data entry work; one is paying me $55 per hour for digital project management.   Right now, I am making about $6800 per month, gross.  But I don’t know how long it will last! This seems like an opportunity that can’t last forever, but I want to make the most of it while I have it.

Other Ordinary Income:
$740 dollars per month in child support

Monthly Expenses:
Cell Phone   $22.00
Gas $33.00
Doctor Visits $83.00
Medicine $10.00
Day Care $1,200.00
Clothing $25.00
Personal Care (supplies & salon)   $10.00
Gifts   $60.00
Homeschool $50.00
College Savings For Boys $100.00
Miscellaneous $60.00
Legal fees:  Varies, but always pricey.  I DO have a very good attorney.

Assets (mine before marriage and staying mine): 
$200,000 in a zombie Fidelity 401k account
$2,000 in a current SEP IRA account
$456 dollars in a few REIT shares
$9,000 in stock

Liabilities: NO DEBT of any kind.  But always looming is the threat of big legal costs if my husband should decide to try to get more custody.
My parents also live in an expensive area.  The COL is too high for me to make it in this town on my own.

Question:
What would you do if you were trying to accomplish three things:
1.   Retain custody
2.   Homeschool
3.   Live independently

I am trying to figure out HOW to get out of my parents’ house, while still keeping my nut small enough that I can work part-time from home, support the boys and myself, and homeschool.

It seems like the only way is to stay with my parents and save like mad to buy a foreclosure in a few years.  Would any of you use that $200,000 in retirement savings to buy a home in cash with no mortgage, and then save like mad to replace it?

Please, give me an action plan and I will execute against it with dogged persistence!!!!! Right now I am stuck going in circles.

[cchrissyy]

budget wise, you look fine!  Focus on keeping the income you've already got. The longer you see it coming in, the better you'll feel.  It sounds like your big worry is opening a custody battle and having to go back to work out of the home fuels that worry, but the fact is you're making FINE money from home and if you solidify that, there is no need to worry about being forced to get an office job. 

don't worry about buying a house. you can get out of your parent's place by renting, and it sounds like maybe now is a good time to start looking for that.

No matter what, NO, never cash out your retirement for housing. Leave it alone. 

do you have a divorce lawyer? they are worth every penny.  a lot of your fear about losing the kids would probably evaporate if you felt like you had a great lawyer on your side. In most states, the fact is you have the status quo on your side. the kids live with you, and therefore the court will keep it that way. that's a big deal!  I mean, I'm not your lawyer and I'm not in your state, but usually that's how it goes and so you would have very little to worry about. So you really need a lawyer to tell you if that's how it works where you are, and to make sure everything happens properly and all your rights are protected.

[scantee]

YOU NEED A LAWYER!

I am not going to give you any advice because I am not a lawyer, and I am certainly not your lawyer, and the only advice you need right now is from a lawyer.

Okay, I am going to give you advice, get a lawyer immediately!

[The_Golden_Bee]

I have a lawyer!  LOL.  I have an excellent lawyer.  He is VERY EXPENSIVE and worth every penny.
My husband tried to take the children from me once before, and my lawyer saved my bacon.  His argument to the judge was what I outlined above: I'm home with the kids.  They are very attached to me. If my husband took them they would have to go into daycare or the other woman would care for them.

The judge saw no reason to take the boys from their mom only to put them in daycare/with a strange woman.  But if my situation changed, my husband and his girlfriend might try again....

But yes.  I DO have lawyer.

THANKYOU!!

[Gin1984]

Depending on the state, you may be eligible for alimony, part of the martial home, though yes he owned it before, I assume you put some money into it during the marriage?  Also keep a little in actual cash.  How were the martial assets divided, because it sounds like he kept them all.
He is using your fear of losing your children to have his cake and eat it too.  Honestly your lawyer does not sound great.  Daycare should not be the only arguement because what happens when they are in school AND if you do want them home, you should be getting alimony.

[The_Golden_Bee]

In Pennsylvania, assets/debts that were yours before the marriage remain yours.  The house was his and he never added my name to the deed, so it stays his.  We did a modest remodel after our marriage, so I would get part of the value I helped add to the house.  But I'm not hungry for those dollars, they will likely be a pittance because the house itself is very modest.

If he does divorce me, I will get alimony, but not much, because he left me only 3 years after the wedding. We don't have a long marital history.  Those alimony dollars are ones I'll fight for if he moves on the divorce, but he hasn't moved on the divorce, and I don't want to force a divorce.  I am hopeful the reason he hasn't divorced me is because somewhere, in the back of his mind, he wants to come home.  That's an emotional, rather than fiscal, reason for me to maintain the status quo, but it's a pretty powerful one for me.

I'll fight him over the car he gave away out of spite, too, but it was only worth a few grand.  We really were a very modest-living couple. There are no big dollars laying around that I am ignoring.

I would like to NOT put my kids in school. I would like to homeschool.  But you are right that I get to breathe a sigh of relief if they DO go to traditional school because my husband lives too far away from me to get shared custody of kids who need to be at school in NJ at 8 in the morning every day. :)

[Louisville]

In Pennsylvania, assets/debts that were yours before the marriage remain yours.  The house was his and he never added my name to the deed, so it stays his.  We did a modest remodel after our marriage, so I would get part of the value I helped add to the house.  But I'm not hungry for those dollars, they will likely be a pittance because the house itself is very modest.

If he does divorce me, I will get alimony, but not much, because he left me only 3 years after the wedding. We don't have a long marital history.  Those alimony dollars are ones I'll fight for if he moves on the divorce, but he hasn't moved on the divorce, and I don't want to force a divorce.  I am hopeful the reason he hasn't divorced me is because somewhere, in the back of his mind, he wants to come home.  That's an emotional, rather than fiscal, reason for me to maintain the status quo, but it's a pretty powerful one for me.

I'll fight him over the car he gave away out of spite, too, but it was only worth a few grand.  We really were a very modest-living couple. There are no big dollars laying around that I am ignoring.

I would like to NOT put my kids in school. I would like to homeschool.  But you are right that I get to breathe a sigh of relief if they DO go to traditional school because my husband lives too far away from me to get shared custody of kids who need to be at school in NJ at 8 in the morning every day. :)

You have got to let this go. You are being played like a chump. He is gone and he's never coming back. And, more importantly: YOU DON'T WANT HIM BACK!!! This guy left you for someone else. You think he'll "come to his senses" and "come home"? Here's the news: In his mind that's exactly what he did when he tossed you out.

I know it sounds harsh, but you are not doing yourself or your kids any favors by pining for this dude after three years.
Lawyer up, get tough but fair, put this shit to bed and move on. Sue for divorce now and play hard ball. Get child support, get alimony, get whatever you can get - for your kids.

You may end up with some sort of shared custody arrangement.  Be prepared for that. I can tell you can't stand the thought of your kids being around "that woman", but tough shit. That's the way divorces with kids go.

[scantee]

I'm very glad you have a lawyer. Your lawyer doesn't sound that great if the only way he could get custody for you is by tying you to being home with your children in perpetuity (and, if the judge preferenced you because you are home with the kids, why do you have $1200/mo in daycare fees? ). I hope a forum lawyer pops in to this conversation to confirm whether this is true or not.

Your ex is using your fear of him "taking" your kids to keep you in this limbo. Were I you, I would move to end the marriage as quickly as possible, fully knowing and expecting that he will keep these shenanigans going as long as possible. Get a small apartment, start sending your children to child care a few days a week, establish your income streams so that they are more permanent than they are currently. If he wants shared custody he can move closer to where your children have an established home base. If he doesn't want to move (and it will say a lot about his true intentions if he doesn't), he can see them every other weekend and for a longer stint in the summer.

Negotiate calmly from a position of strength, not out of fear.

[cchrissyy]

yeah, that's harsh but so true


there's almost no chance he would ever "come back".  the likely reason he is drawing out the divorce is because if you move forward and finalize it the support payments would increase, or he would have to split his retirement or some other asset and he finds it convenient that you are so overwhelmingly patient in not making that happen yet.

please go talk to your lawyer about the threat/fear that he could get more custody. honestly, the risk is probably that he could ASK for that and you would feel worried but he could never actually GET that, since the kids live with you full time and that's the status quo. it's legally a very strong position, and it doesn't mean you have to live in this town or with your parents or whatever, it just means, you have all the custody and that's what the kids are used to and it's very difficult and unlikely the other parent could make that change even if he did try.

[LifeHappens]

OP, I'm not sure why you think your X could "take" your kids. Do you truly have reason to fear you would lose all custody? Or is it that you want full custody? Unless there is major stuff going on, you are almost guaranteed to be awarded shared custody. Talk to your lawyer about this so you understand what the process and likely outcome will be.

[cchrissyy]

OP says she's been living in another state with the kids for 3 years already

[scantee]

OP says she's been living in another state with the kids for 3 years already

Right. The fact that OP's ex didn't immediately lawyer up three years ago to stop her from moving out of state is a pretty good indication that he is not serious about getting custody of the kids now. OP, he was manipulating you three years ago and he continues to manipulate you now by convincing you that he can somehow take the kids.

[Frankies Girl]

oh hun.

You need to go get some counseling STAT. He's an asshat, and you're holding yourself in limbo on the idea that he may come back to you someday? You don't want him back. That's sadness and fear and rejection talking.

You want your dream life with him as the loving spouse and happy little house, but that is dead and should have been buried long ago. You need to let go of this dream and find a new, better one.

Please, please stop this. You're hurting yourself and your children by living this way. You are worth more than this. Value yourself more. Value your future more. Value how you are going to model to your children about how to be in a relationship, as an caring-but-take-no-shit-from-anyone adult. You are not a doormat. 

Find a kickass lawyer and once and for all cut ties with him. You need closure and stability and you need to find a new path since this one you had is now gone. But you take exactly what you need to move on and feel in charge and healthy and go out and DO IT.

And if the idea of doing home schooling is in any way related to the idea that you must have complete control over your children and can't risk him even having visitation... you need to deal with that too. He may be a total asshole of a spouse/partner, but he's still those kids' father - unless there was abuse or mistreatment, he should be given the chance for visitation and to be a good father - don't punish your kids for him being a shitty partner. All of this should be predicated on what is in the children's best interests and then your own.

I am so sorry you're in this position. He is a jerk and you deserve to be treated with love and respect, but realize you will never get it from him and you may never get it from anyone until you are willing to give it to yourself. Buck up, take action, and come out the other side as a strong, independent person, a responsible mother, daughter and hopefully spouse to someone that treats you with love and respect once again someday.

[The_Golden_Bee]

Hi Guys,

I do appreciate the tough talk.  But I think some wires got crossed somewhere.  Even if I got divorced, there is no bundle of dollars waiting for me to collect.

My financial situation will be almost exactly the same as it is today. I have discussed this with my attorney before.
I will get nominal alimony, for a limited time. That would be nice, but it's not a game changer. I will likely get a few thousand dollars in appreciation on the house, but that's all.  It doesn't really rocket me to my financial goals.

I have three goals.
1. living independently of my parents
2. staying home with the kids as much as possible (because I like it, and because it helps with custody)
3. homeschooling

What I am asking is, can I achieve the above based on the financial situation I described in the OP? I understand you may not think homeschooling is valuable, and you may think shared custody is fine and I should just deal with it.  But these 3 items are very important to me and I am seeking a financial plan to achieve them.

I think I should be able to do it without going to court to divorce my husband. If there was $100,000 on the line I would probably feel differently, but haggling over our minimal assets in court will COST me money -- about $20,000 in legal fees.  It will be very close to a wash for me financially. Again, there is an emotion component here, but it's also not really a burning financial need right now.

If you can advise me on how to use my current finances to move towards, 1) living independently 2) staying home with the kids as much as possible and 3) homeschooling, I would love to hear it!

I will take as an action item that I must talk to my attorney again about whether or not pushing for alimony would be worth it to me financially.  It's been a while since we discussed this.

Thanks a million for your time and concern!

[GettingClose]

It sounds like you have a fourth goal of retaining full custody of the kids (and without knowing all details, I can understand many reasons why this would be true and best for the kids).

I don't understand why you would want to remain married to someone who would
a) abandon you for someone else
b) be content with not being part of his kids' lives for three years
... but that's not directly related to your financial situation, so leaving it alone.

Your income looks like you could support yourself in a rental (maybe just a one-bedroom place) and have an independent home with the kids.  Maybe your parents could babysit one or two days a week to help you have some breathing space for yourself alone?

[Goldielocks]

Essentially, you are saying that you want to afford to live independently, with two kids, without working more than part-time / seasonal, and receiving $740/month?

Eg -- you want to raise your family and live on your own without money coming in or parents / another person supporting you?

The only way you can do this is to:
 Pre-Save up a bucket of money.   Save for a few years or make a lot more money per hour (unlikely).  Where is the money you are saving each month going now?  Nothing in checking.. and everything in the IRA / investment accounts you listed?     Are you saving $4k per month right now x 3 years = $140k so far.  That is quite a lot to supplement part time income right now.

Alternative -- can you get paid to homeschool (or include other children) to pay you to stay home?  IDK.

A better solution to independence (assuming your ex is not a threat to your kids):
Get divorced.  Close the book on that relationship and free yourself.
Move back closer to where your ex lives.   Get a place.  Get joint custody (if he wants to go that way or keep sole custody yourself), get a job, put kids in school.  Live independently.  Save money until you can FIRE and homeschool again.   He may even agree to your keeping full custody if you live closer and he can visit the kids more easily.  Who knows.

Variation -- do the above without moving closer to your ex.  BUT, talk to your lawyer about how you get to have the kids for the school year, at a minimum, if you do this, because I can't see any reason why your ex should not get part custody.


I guess what I am saying is that you need money to support yourself, from your own income, from a partner, from your savings, from the government (welfare) or from your parents.   We don't get to stop working if we don't have the money and don't have other people to pay for us.

[The_Golden_Bee]

I think I need to clarify my terms. I am not keeping the children from their dad. He does have partial custody. I have primary custody.

He would like to take the children away from me completely. Specifically, he asked for full/sole custody and me only seeing the boys in his living room with the other woman as my chaperone.

Obviously, he didn't get his wish, but it isn't me who wants to keep the children apart from their parent.

I just want to retain the custody I have.

[noplaceliketheroad]

It sounds like you're making enough money to live independently, as long as the child care costs don't dramatically rise.

Do your parents provide any childcare currently? Are they retired? Would you be able to use that $1200 a month you currently spend on daycare to pay one of your parents to come to your apartment during the week to watch the kids while you work? Would one of your parents be willing to help out with homeschooling?

I hope you have a really strong support system through all this! Wishing you the best!

[GettingClose]

Yes, wishing you the very best.

[scantee]

My financial situation will be almost exactly the same as it is today. I have discussed this with my attorney before.
I will get nominal alimony, for a limited time. That would be nice, but it's not a game changer. I will likely get a few thousand dollars in appreciation on the house, but that's all.  It doesn't really rocket me to my financial goals.

I have three goals.
1. living independently of my parents
2. staying home with the kids as much as possible (because I like it, and because it helps with custody)
3. homeschooling

What I am asking is, can I achieve the above based on the financial situation I described in the OP? I understand you may not think homeschooling is valuable, and you may think shared custody is fine and I should just deal with it.  But these 3 items are very important to me and I am seeking a financial plan to achieve them.

At this time, no, you can not have all three of these things. To be a homeschooling parent you either need someone willing to support you financially or to be financially independent already. You sort of have that with your parents, but you have no way to replace their support if you move out.

You need to make a major change somewhere in your life to make the life you're envisioning possible. The reason everyone here is suggesting you divorce asap isn't because we believe it will lead you to getting a financial settlement that makes the life you want possible. The reason we are recommending divorce is because it is the surest way for you to regain control over your life such that you're no longer living on your ex's terms. Not living in fear of him should do a ton for improving your confidence and ability to earn an income that, someday, allows you to stay home and school your children.

I want to echo frankies girl's suggestion of therapy. I suspect that your emotional attachment to your ex is clouding your thinking in a way that is preventing you from seeing this situation clearly. A skilled therapist will be able to help you work through that, learn to advocate for yourself, and set appropriate goals to get closer to the life you want to live.

Good luck.

[renata ricotta]

I think I need to clarify my terms. I am not keeping the children from their dad. He does have partial custody. I have primary custody.

He would like to take the children away from me completely. Specifically, he asked for full/sole custody and me only seeing the boys in his living room with the other woman as my chaperone.

Obviously, he didn't get his wish, but it isn't me who wants to keep the children apart from their parent.

I just want to retain the custody I have.

To start:  I am not your lawyer.  However, absent proof of abuse or other serious issues, it is almost impossible that he would win on such a request, EVEN IF YOU GET A FULL-TIME JOB for some period of time.  The courts do not take kindly to arguments that preschool-age children who live with their mother full-time should be reduced to only getting occasional supervised visits, particularly on such a flimsy basis that she's working like most other parents in this country.  If your lawyer is not telling you this, you are incorrect and you actually have a bad lawyer, not a good one. 


*I know you don't want to hear it, but I'm going to repeat the refrain that you should not have "getting back together" as one of your goals, and ESPECIALLY if it potentially impedes you from doing what's best financially.  And it might--you feel paralyzed about building your life because of all of this uncertainty with your ex and custody.  You are EXTREMELY likely to get a very favorable divorce settlement, and then you will have a legally-binding piece of paper that will tell you what you can expect.  Then you can build your life around it.  I would be sympathetic to you wanting to get back together if your ex had been the height of mature responsibility in this separation and respected you as a mother and co-parent, but wanting to take his kids away from their mother just because he fell in love with someone else?  That's next-level vindictiveness, and he does not have the best interests of either you or your children in mind.  I very much hope you carve out room in your budget for therapy to work through your feelings on this topic.  Holding out for this possibility is keeping you from living your life.

[Another Reader]

I wonder if there might be some missing information here.  What was the basis of your husband's request to have full custody and only allow you to see the children in his living room with the other woman chaperoning?  Did he make an accusation of you being an unfit parent?  If so, what was the alleged problem with your fitness?  How often does he see the children now?

I'm concerned that you may want to home school to keep your children away from contact with the outside world.  What is your reason for home schooling?  How will they socialize with other kids outside your home?  Are they involved in a home schooling program that does group activities?

Something just does not make sense about the situation as described.

[cchrissyy]

If he already did ask for more custody and the court turned him down, you really can stop worrying about it. He can't just keep asking the same thing and get a new answer.

when you check in with your lawyer, don't just ask about alimony - also ask about court ordered share of cost for the kid's childcare or preschool tuition and all medical costs.  Is your ex providing their insurance? that should be court ordered. and normally he would be ordered to pay support PLUS his share of their childcare and school expenses.  This is true right now, while they're young and you work at home, and all the way to age 18, no matter what happens with their childcare and schooling needs.

[ysette9]

Posting to follow.

I agree with that assessment that something here is not adding up. I hope it is as simple as the OP having a bad lawyer and needing some counseling to learn to stand up for herself.
 

[GoConfidently]

You need therapy and a court date ASAP. Your entire post was about you. Your three goals were about you and what you want. You never once said what your children wanted or even what you thought was best for them. It’s all about doing what you like and keeping them away from the other woman. A divorce and custody settlement will protect your children. They are being used as pawns by both sides and they need someone to think of their best interests.

[calimom]

I think I need to clarify my terms. I am not keeping the children from their dad. He does have partial custody. I have primary custody.

He would like to take the children away from me completely. Specifically, he asked for full/sole custody and me only seeing the boys in his living room with the other woman as my chaperone.

Obviously, he didn't get his wish, but it isn't me who wants to keep the children apart from their parent.

I just want to retain the custody I have.

To start:  I am not your lawyer.  However, absent proof of abuse or other serious issues, it is almost impossible that he would win on such a request, EVEN IF YOU GET A FULL-TIME JOB for some period of time.  The courts do not take kindly to arguments that preschool-age children who live with their mother full-time should be reduced to only getting occasional supervised visits, particularly on such a flimsy basis that she's working like most other parents in this country.  If your lawyer is not telling you this, you are incorrect and you actually have a bad lawyer, not a good one. 


*I know you don't want to hear it, but I'm going to repeat the refrain that you should not have "getting back together" as one of your goals, and ESPECIALLY if it potentially impedes you from doing what's best financially.  And it might--you feel paralyzed about building your life because of all of this uncertainty with your ex and custody.  You are EXTREMELY likely to get a very favorable divorce settlement, and then you will have a legally-binding piece of paper that will tell you what you can expect.  Then you can build your life around it.  I would be sympathetic to you wanting to get back together if your ex had been the height of mature responsibility in this separation and respected you as a mother and co-parent, but wanting to take his kids away from their mother just because he fell in love with someone else?  That's next-level vindictiveness, and he does not have the best interests of either you or your children in mind.  I very much hope you carve out room in your budget for therapy to work through your feelings on this topic.  Holding out for this possibility is keeping you from living your life.

You've received some good advice, but Bridget's is some of the best and most direct. The current child support award, unless your soon to be ex-husband is very low income, is ridiculous. Hopefully your attorney can negotiate for more. With your earning ability, you likely don't need alimony and how much and for how long would it be anyhow? Plus, taxable.

Seriously no matter what you're best to not be emotionally attached to a man who: 1) leaves you for another woman. 2) Leaves you (and two preschoolers without a vehicle. What a dick. 3) Refers to your home as 'God's Little Acre'. Even ironically, that's stupid. That you have to co-parent with this yahoo is plenty. Be pleasant, be communicative, but do know he and his unhinged new 'lady' are very unlikely to get full custody, no matter what the children's schooling arrangement is.

Your parents sound generous, but likely the arrangement of living with you and a couple of young children is wearing on them and on you. Do you need to live in their town? Do you like each other enough to support this? Can you live somewhere where rents are less expensive? And as others have said, raiding your 401k to buy a house (again, taxes!) is probably not the best solution. Plus, you are behind in retirement savings.

At your age and work ability (you rock!), optimizing your job situation is your very best bet right now. Get real about the homeschooling thing. If your children are currently in daycare, they're used to being in the world and you're accustomed to them being influenced and taught by others. Public school is likely the very best option in this scenario, and probably not what you want to hear. Life doesn't always turn out the way we anticipate, and we need to adjust and change our expectations. Not the end of the world. You will always have a huge sphere of influence over your boys no matter what. Again, your ex husband can't take your children based on this, whichever way you go with that.

[The_Golden_Bee]

@calimom and @bridget

Thank you for your strong financial advice.  What I hear you saying is: maximize the value of the gig that I have now.  Work hard, make myself indispensable, put the money to good use: catching up on retirement savings.  STAY PUT for now.

If this gig ever dries up, I will be in a better position to find a similar opportunity.  If not, my overall financial position will be much better and I can make a "next steps" decision with a much larger nest egg.

I think that's great advice.  If I misunderstood anything, let me know.  And thanks for taking the time to weigh in!

[ysette9]

All that and, move forward on that divorce ASAP, with a better lawyer if necessary.

[marion10]

I will second getting a second opinion from another lawyer- your children are very young- do you want to live as you are now for the next 15 years?

[renata ricotta]

@calimom and @bridget

Thank you for your strong financial advice.  What I hear you saying is: maximize the value of the gig that I have now.  Work hard, make myself indispensable, put the money to good use: catching up on retirement savings.  STAY PUT for now.

If this gig ever dries up, I will be in a better position to find a similar opportunity.  If not, my overall financial position will be much better and I can make a "next steps" decision with a much larger nest egg.

I think that's great advice.  If I misunderstood anything, let me know.  And thanks for taking the time to weigh in!

I don't want to speak for calimom, but ... no, that's not really what I'm saying.  I'm saying you should get yourself a divorce decree as soon as possible, so that you can make more informed long-term decisions for yourself, including moving out of your parents' house.  It sounds like you are currently unable to make big changes because of fear of what that might mean for your custody arrangement (like moving to a lower cost of living area).  Let's say you get a divorce decree that says you have primary custody, but you must get court permission to move more than 100 miles away from your ex's town in PA.  That tells you the range of options you have for moving.  I'm willing to bet you can find a much cheaper town in which you can live independently on what you are able to earn within 100 miles, but it might be a different place than if the decree says 50 miles.

[Cassie]

Bridget has given you some great suggestions.  Can you afford a 1 bedroom apartment? If so you could sleep in the living room and give the bedroom to the kids.  Get therapy so you can get strong enough to get a divorce.  It was kind of your parents to take you all in but being in my early 60's I would not want an adult daughter with kids to live with me at this age for 3 years. I am sure they want their lives back.

[MrThatsDifferent]

The Golden Bee, I feel for you. You seem smart and switched on. I know people are face punching you because you hold out hope that he will come to his senses. I can imagine that you’re thinking that will return the stability you had. I just had one of my colleagues go through something similar. Her husband had been cheating for years, moved in with the other woman and my colleague waited for him to come back. And he did! But then she found out he was still seeing the woman on the side. She finally left him and moved on and has met someone new and is happy. You will be too, in time.

As for the rest, if it were me: I’d keep staying with the parents but write down some concrete goals, like wanting to have X saved by Y date (3 years max).  Then I would look at more side-hustles I could do at night, when the kids are sleeping. There are lots of online gigs (teaching English, etc).  I would then see if I could form a homeschooling group, if I could find 1-2 other like minded people I might be able to each give yourselves and extra day off to keep side-hustling. My goal wouldn’t be owning a place, but renting in a safe area that’s affordable once I hit my target in savings. Once I move out, I’d ask for more child support money. Otherwise, I’d follow the investment order and save as much as possible.

I also recommend getting some counseling so you can work through all that is happening and continue making yourself as strong and healthy as possible for your sake and your children.  Best of luck!

[Cranky]

File for divorce and ask for shared custody.

Get a full time job and a place to live.

Knock it off with the homeschooling stuff - your kids aren’t even school aged yet.

Build your life.

[CNM]

The first thing I'd do in your situation is get a binding parenting plan established.  This you do with your lawyer and the Courts.  Then all of the ambiguity about what you supposedly can and can't do vanishes and you can move forward. 

Also, your lawyer likely said these things about your situation because they were true AT THE TIME.  It certainly does not mean that if your circumstances change at all, the Court would flip its decision.

[mousebandit]

Golden Bee, I just wanted to offer you some encouragement.  You have a tough road ahead of you.  You have a few years before you start homeschooling "for real", and I don't know the requirements for NJ.  On that front, I would check out HSLDA, make sure you're very, very familiar with your state's legal requirements.  I would highly recommend you join HSLDA when the time comes, if you continue to pursue homeschooling. 

What hours / time commitment does your work require?  Is it something that can be done with the kids home, or do you need a care provider with them so you can focus?  Consider how this type of work would mesh with homeschooling as they get older.  In the early grades, the kids will likely need a lot of direct involvement in their schooling, but after second grade or so, you can select curriculums that require less of your direct supervision. 

HSLDA also has some limited financial assistance for single moms who want to continue with their homeschooling plans.  You could look into that. 

I may find myself in a similar situation soon, so I'm very interested in the suggestions you receive.  I have also pondered whether I would immediately pursue a divorce, or simply separate and give things time.  This discussion is very informative. 

Best wishes for your future! 

[Meesh]

It looks like you have 2 part time contract jobs. I'd say save as much as possible and look for something more stable. You might take a hit financially but your whole life feels in the wind. His divorce time, whenever the job ends, parent's toes... Get a stable job and move into a tiny apartment. While you're looking save as much as possible since you currently make bank. If you are worried this will hurt your position in the divorce, get a second opinion from a different lawyer's consultation at minimum. I agree with the other's; your lawyer doesn't sound so hot.

If you want to homeschool while working you are going to have to get incredibly creative. Your kids will still have to go to daycare, even if you keep them out of school. Kids can go into daycare until about 12 but it will get awkward for them as all the kids will be 4 and under. Some might not even take them. Assuming you could get them care, you would then have to do school after work. Honestly, I'm a homeschooling mom and I would not do this. That is flat out not good for them and it just makes no sense.

Let's say it's your life goal to live at home and homeschool your children, at 4% of 200k and the 740$/month you'd have 1400$/month (assuming that 740$ is court ordered until 18. Again get a divorce, you can't do any of this without it). If you can honestly live off that with 2 kids independently, more power to you. But don't forget at 58 you'll loose that 740$ and you'll have to GO BACK TO WORK! You will also not be able to pay for college fyi. Your future self will be kicking you.

I love homeschooling but I also recognize it is a luxury I am able to do because of my situation and if that changes then so will school. You need to realize this too. Public school is not the end of the world, it's a solid plan B.

So to answer for whether you can meet all 3 goals, I'd say no. You can can retain custody and live independently though. By finalizing your divorce and getting a new job, solidifying your TRUE independence and a solid base for yourself. Then if all goes well, you can pull them out to homeschool later.

As an aside, he left you for someone else when you had an infant and a 1 year old. He is a total jerk and does not deserve your hope of reconciliation. You are clearly still hurting but please understand the magnitude of the terrible choices he made against you and his growing family. This is not the type of person you should want back, he completely let you down in one of the most difficult times in your life. Show yourself and you children the respect that you all deserve, grieve and move on.

[MrThatsDifferent]

File for divorce and ask for shared custody.

Get a full time job and a place to live.

Knock it off with the homeschooling stuff - your kids aren’t even school aged yet.

Build your life.

Wow, you are Cranky!

[bugbaby]

OP, I'd like to chime in to encourage you: I've been in the most abusive divorce ever, since my children were babies. It's purgatory but it gets better and life goes on. 3 things I'd say
,
- You're in a place of fear and pain right now. But you need to realize you're strong and able. The law is on your side... He's a bully, don't listen to his wimpy threats. No one will take away your kids regardless of school or daycare. Get a better attorney.

- What's his income? Typical support for 2 kids should be in the range of 20-30% of net income.

- I too had to depend on my parents a lot, and frankly it was very toxic, and they'd constantly, semi subtly express their shame and disappointment in me for my situation. We are now estranged for this and other reasons.  Even if yours are nice, you each need space.

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[MrsPete]

You say your goals are 1) retain custody; 2) homeschool; 3) live independently.  These should be possible. 

First, retaining custody.  I agree with the poster who says your lawyer wasn't all that good.  By insisting that you keep the kids because you're home with them, he's set you up for future failure:  that is, he's opened the door for the possibility that if you take a full-time job in an office, your husband now has reason to come back and say, "Look, the whole reason she kept the kids is no longer true."  What he should focus on is that your husband is/was a cheater ... courts don't like that, and it's a horrible example for the kids.  Do you have PROOF that he cheated during your marriage?  If so, hold onto it.  Also, even in this day and age, it's not particularly easy for a dad to take small children from a mom, and once you have years of successful single parenting behind you, it's harder still to take the kids from you.  I understand it is of utmost importance to you, but I think you're worrying over-much about this subject. 

Second, homeschooling.  I agree with the poster who points out that your kids aren't even school-aged yet.  What's your motivation for homeschooling?  I hear a lot of fear in your post -- don't let this be your bottom-line reason for homeschooling. 

Finally, living independently.  You're making enough to live independently, and owning a small home of your own would certainly look better to the courts.  You don't have stability in your job, though, and that will matter to the courts.  An ideal situation for you would be to purchase a duplex with two bedrooms on each side:  You and your boys live on one side, and you'd have some rental income on the other side.  You need to get out of your parents' house; first because you say it's uncomfortable, and second because it will look better to the courts -- your days of being caught up in a bad situation with babies are behind you, and this is the time for you to break free of your parents' support. 

Questions:
- If you're home all day, why are you spending $1200/month on daycare?
- What legal agreements have the two of you made?  Specifically in terms of visitation, saving for the boys' future, etc.?  Those things matter a great deal.
- Why haven't you moved towards divorce?  If he's living with this other woman and the chances of reconciling are gone, it'd be a healthier choice than living in this limbo situation.

[Kyle Schuant]

Even if I got divorced, there is no bundle of dollars waiting for me to collect.

My financial situation will be almost exactly the same as it is today. I have discussed this with my attorney before.

But you also told us your attorney is expensive. And so, if you get divorced and force sole custody of the children, you may be financially worse off than you are today. But then at least you may be able to move to another city or state which could have better job opportunities or cost of living for you.


We can't give you advice on your finances when they may be entirely changed in six or twelve months.


I would organise the divorce and children, and see where I was at that point. You'll find that having that certainty in your life, removing the stress of the possibility hovering around that everything could come crashing down - everything else will be easier and clearer then. Right now it's like you're at the ATM at midnight in a dodgy part of town wondering how much cash to withdraw while this big bald tattooed white guy is standing breathing heavily behind you.

[bugbaby]

Right now it's like you're at the ATM at midnight in a dodgy part of town wondering how much cash to withdraw while this big bald tattooed white guy is standing breathing heavily behind you.

way to weirdly twist up a case study...

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[I'm a red panda]

Just a question- if YOU get in a better situation, couldn't your husband move to divorce and take the money YOU now have? You're still married- are you sure your state laws will see everything as separate from when you stopped living together? Not all do.

I really fail to see why you would stay married to a man living with another woman in another state.  Finalize the divorce, get the custody agreement strong in the settlement and then get on with your life.

[Kyle Schuant]

way to weirdly twist up a case study...

Not at all. She several times mentions uncertainty and fear about his future actions, and that at any moment things might become a lot, lot worse for her. It's an exaggeration, but only of degree not of kind: she has fear and uncertainty about a male and his actions.

The difference between her situation and some guy lurking behind her at an ATM is that she has the power to resolve this uncertainty and remove the fear. This will require the help of her expensive attorney.

It's been three years. At some point he'll initiate a divorce, if only because some woman - if not the current other woman but some other further down the road - will demand it. And once he does that everything will change, and any financial advice we give will become redundant.

[Chrissy]

How much is a 2BD apartment in your current location?

[formerlydivorcedmom]

First, hugs to you.  This is an awful situation to be in.

1) In my state, there is a presumption that an established custody schedule should remain the same provided that the children are thriving.  My husband and his ex do not follow their custody schedule - they made up a new one.  Periodically she threatens to revert back to the legal document, which would cut that amount of time he sees his daughter.  We'd have to take her to court, but we'd easily be able to get the current schedule reinstated because D is adjusted to it and doing well.  Your lawyer should tell you whether that also applies to where your divorce is filed.

One thing that may be worth looking at is whether you can counter-file for divorce in NJ, since you and your children have been residents there for 3 years and he has done nothing to move the divorce filed in Penn forward.  If so, there might be differences in the rules (or judges) that would be beneficial to you in your custody battle.

3) Living independently -
I'm assuming you have temporary custody orders.  Do they specify the range where you can live?  Mine listed specific counties I was allowed to live in.  If it doesn't specify, can you just move somewhere cheaper?  If it does, is there a cheaper area in that range where you could live and still not be too far from your support system?

I highly recommend renting when you are ready to live alone.  I bought a house right after my divorce was final and, ironically, met my future husband the week I moved in.  Two years later I had to move again, when we got married.  I thought I had my post-divorce life mapped out, but fate had other plans for me.

2) Homeschooling -
I'll also reiterate the plea that you go to therapy.  The hardest part of divorce with toddlers (mine were 4 and 1) was letting go of the plans and dreams I had had for them.  Not just the dream of two parents in the same house, but the lifestyle that I had always intended to provide for them.  Therapy really helped me to learn to grieve those dreams, not just the loss of the husband, and to build new dreams for our new life.   

Like me, you have very concrete ideals of what you wanted to provide your children, as well as a financial reality that may not make that possible.  I would strongly consider (with therapy) the reasons why you want to homeschool and whether there are other alternatives that could help you reach those goals without actually homeschooling.  I'm not saying homeschooling is bad or impossible for you - but maybe it could be postponed because the core things that you want for your kids can be fulfilled in other ways.

[formerlydivorcedmom]

Unrelated to your goals - the topic of the other woman, who has now been in a relationship with your husband for longer than your marriage lasted.

My children are on stepmother #2.  I focus on being grateful that each stepmother is kind to and takes an interest in my children.  This one actually likes doing crafts and knows how to fix hair. I don't.  That means my daughter gets an experience she otherwise wouldn't have had with either of her parents.  Win all around! She also came with cats.  I hate cats.  My son loves them.  Win.  You will have to train yourself into this mindset. It's not easy.

I am a stepmother.  We met when she was 4 (two years after their divorce), and D is my bonus kid.  My H's ex-wife is CONVINCED that I want full custody of her daughter and that I am always scheming to undermine her or to prove her an unfit parent.  She is convinced that anything my H says or does is because of me.  She loudly proclaims this.  She comes across as unbalanced (and not just to us - other people who know the three of us have said it, too). There is no truth in any of that; we just want what's best for D (two families that love and support her), but every outburst like that makes us wonder if what's best for D is less exposure to crazy.  Please do not become that kind of woman.  (I'm not saying you are on that path, but providing a general warning.)

You are going to need to accept that this woman will be a part of your children's lives for what may be a very long time.  You are going to need to be supportive of them having a relationship with her (provided she's not harmful or crazy) for their own good.  You are going to need to be able to separate out her role in the demise of your marriage from her role in the raising of your children.  For your sake, and for the sake of your children. In this case, therapy is invaluable.  I don't know how anyone could reach that kind of acceptance without it.

[formerlydivorcedmom]

I am hopeful the reason he hasn't divorced me is because somewhere, in the back of his mind, he wants to come home.  That's an emotional, rather than fiscal, reason for me to maintain the status quo, but it's a pretty powerful one for me.

Sorry, one last comment....

I felt the same way that you did.  I think we all do.

In actuality, my H never looked back.  He didn't push the divorce because he was lazy.  My therapist finally helped me see that in our marriage, I was the organizer who got things done.  He'd set a goal or start a project, and I'd figure out what it took to make it happen.  He thought the divorce I didn't want would work the same way - he'd kick it off and then I'd make sure it happened.  When I refused to do that, the process just lingered.

He was an idiot, but he was right.  Once I got tired of limbo and realized I valued myself more than someone who could treat me so poorly, I had my lawyer move the process along.   In my state, most divorces happen within 60 days.  Ours took 5 times that long...but only 45 days from the time I decided I was done.  (My ex even refused to stand in front of the judge and swear the marriage was over; not because he wanted to be married to me - he was already house-hunting with another woman - but because he didn't want to pay his lawyer for another hour's worth of time to accompany him.  So I did it.  He also refused to sign the final papers in a timely manner, because he was mad at me and knew the delay endangered financial plans I had.  I finally called his mother and cried; she made him sign.)

My therapist was worth her weight in gold.

[dreams_and_discoveries]

@calimom and @bridget

Thank you for your strong financial advice.  What I hear you saying is: maximize the value of the gig that I have now.  Work hard, make myself indispensable, put the money to good use: catching up on retirement savings.  STAY PUT for now.

If this gig ever dries up, I will be in a better position to find a similar opportunity.  If not, my overall financial position will be much better and I can make a "next steps" decision with a much larger nest egg.

I think that's great advice.  If I misunderstood anything, let me know.  And thanks for taking the time to weigh in!

I'd second the keep the jobs going, make sure the clients are happy and stash some cash. This will leave you many more options in the future.

On the ex husband side, I've not seen any mention of how he is/was as a Dad? Is there a particular abuse type issue why you want full custody?

I think it's time to let go of your dreams with the ex, and start some new dreams for you & kids. What excites you as a person?  I know it will be hard to shift your mindset and share your kids, but once you can do this and see the future as a happy confident parent everything will seem much easier and brighter.

[jax8]

2) Homeschooling -
I'll also reiterate the plea that you go to therapy.  The hardest part of divorce with toddlers (mine were 4 and 1) was letting go of the plans and dreams I had had for them.  Not just the dream of two parents in the same house, but the lifestyle that I had always intended to provide for them.  Therapy really helped me to learn to grieve those dreams, not just the loss of the husband, and to build new dreams for our new life.   

I would strongly consider (with therapy) the reasons why you want to homeschool and whether there are other alternatives that could help you reach those goals without actually homeschooling. 

This is really good advice. It's time to grieve the lost dream of homeschooling on the idyllic Pennsylvania acre and find a new vision for you and your children. 

After-schooling?  You and the kids go to your respective schools/job during the day, and in the evenings you can supplement with extra curriculum.  (I've done this! I supplemented World History and Latin with my 9 year old. And I taught my 4 year old to read working through The Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading over a few weeks of evening readings after dinner.  It's 100% doable.) 

You can also homeschool around your work schedule. Obviously, you'll still need daycare for when you're at work, but working while homeschooling is completely normal. My favorite homeschool author, Susan Wise Bauer, homeschooled her children while working as a history professor. Granted, she had more freedom to come and go as a professor than the average office worker, but depending on your job it could work for you, too.

But first, file for divorce and move forward without your ex.

[BeanCounter]

Golden Bee, I'm really sorry you're going through this. I just want to echo what others have said about getting therapy. And tell you that sending the kids to school can be a great experience for them and you. So if you have to give that up it may not be so bad. You can build a great network of parents there that can help you. It will be important for you to have friends that are single parents too. I hope this doesn't sound judgy, but I would think that most homeschooling parents will likely not be single parents and that could make things harder for you.