Author Topic: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family  (Read 5548 times)

YoungGranny

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 751
  • Age: 33
Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« on: May 31, 2019, 09:14:31 AM »

Overview

I've been on the forum for quite a few years and I think my spending is pretty reasonable. However, my DH (32) and I (28) are facing some changes on the horizon including: recent move to Chicago, potentially starting a family, and being a few years away from FIRE. We're struggling to decide if we should just put our heads down and hit our FIRE goal or if we should relax, start a family and have one of us keep working a bit longer. I recently switched back to my old job with an awesome manager, awesome hours and it's allowing me to work remotely. So pretty flexible, low-stress, and I do enjoy the work. Husband would very likely leave his job to take care of the baby since he's in a higher stress consulting role.

Debts
220k 15-yr mortgage @ 3.5% (primary condo)
99k 30-yr mortgage @ 4.25% (rental)

Assets
$440k - 401(k)/IRA retirement accounts
$195k - Vanguard Account
$8k - HSA Account
$10k - Savings Account
$285k - Condo
$140k - Duplex
2007 Civic: Priceless ;) I think it's actually only worth a few grand but only has ~115k miles so we'll be driving it for a while still.


Gross Salary/Wages:

110k (me) + annual bonus
110k (spouse) + annual bonus
20k  - rental income

Pre-tax deductions:
Both max our 401ks (40k annually)
Max HSA (7k annually)
Healthcare - $80 a month
Commuter Pass for my Husband: $102

Current expenses:
PITI on Primary: $1965 
PITI on Duplex: $925
Car Insurance: $50
Google FI Cell: $30 - husbands is covered by corporate plan
Utilities (G,E,W, Internet, +HOA): $400 - HOA fee ($350) includes all but electric bill.
Food: $460 - Includes groceries and going out to eat + food for our dog. Could cut this but we re-instated date nights this year and enjoy not stressing about grabbing dinner out a couple times a month.
Gas: $30 - typically a tank a month or less.
Public Transportation: $50 - estimated my share since husband has monthly pass
Donations: $100
Travel: $200 - set aside money for bigger trips, we love to travel but cut costs by travel hacking.
Shopping: $50 - when we need to update clothes, shoes, yarn for my crafting habit, etc
Other: $100 - about the average over the last year of random one-off purchases, car repair cost, etc


Overall, I think our expenses are pretty good but welcome any optimization techniques the hive mind may offer. Mostly I'm curious to hear opinions on if we were to start a family now versus waiting to FIRE. I think we'd be able to FIRE in 2021 on our current path. If we have a baby next year then I'd likely need to keep working for ~4 years after they are born while my husband became a SAHP.  While I'm currently 28, fertility problems are common in my family so there's also a strong chance we could start trying now and it would take a couple years for us to have a baby. I guess it feels challenging right now because we have two goals on the horizon and we're trying to decide which one should be accomplished first. Would it be better if I was FIRE'd before having a baby to have more time with them? Or since I enjoy my job is it i better to have a baby and they'll be just fine if I have to work 40 hours a week.

ysette9

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8930
  • Age: 2020
  • Location: Bay Area at heart living in the PNW
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2019, 09:48:53 AM »
As someone who has experienced two second trimester losses and difficulty getting pregnant, I recommend you move your baby-making plans up if that is important to you. As flippant as this sounds, you can always get more money, but you will never get your youth or fertility back once gone. Or at least not without considerable expense and trouble.

LifeHappens

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 12153
  • Location: Tampa-ish
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2019, 09:52:48 AM »
Hey, YoungGranny. I hope life in Chicago is going well.

The only thing in your list of assests/expenses that stands out is the duplex. I'm not a real estate person, so I'll just remind you to evaluate it based on ROI metrics. If it doesn't measure up, selling it would give you some extra cash to invest. Otherwise your expenses look really well optimized for your current situation.

While I'm currently 28, fertility problems are common in my family so there's also a strong chance we could start trying now and it would take a couple years for us to have a baby.
There are several members of this forum who have struggled with fertility. I'm sure a couple of them will make their way to this case study. I would just urge you to find an OBGYN if you haven't yet and get your fertility markers tested. If there is any possibility of difficulty conceiving you may be on a short timeline. I'll leave the emotional aspect to others, but financially speaking it will yield a high ROI to conceive naturally soon rather than waiting a while and possibly needing medical intervention that likely isn't covered by your health insurance.

YoungGranny

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 751
  • Age: 33
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2019, 10:11:29 AM »
@ysette9 - I'm so sorry you experienced losses. Your thoughts are exactly why we are discussing bumping up our plans for a baby, realizing how quickly life goes and making an effort to focus on what's important. Money can always be made later.

@LifeHappens  - Thanks, life is going well! I analyze our duplex every year so we feel comfortable holding onto that one for now since in 2018 we saw a 12% ROI.
Great tip on heading to an OBGYN, I actually have an appointment next week to get the ball rolling. Also thanks for noting the financial impact between conceiving naturally versus medical intervention, not something I really thought about.




MoneyizHere

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2019, 01:16:07 PM »
hey there - great job on the savings.
Having babies - definitely have them asap - do not wait.  Babies are not a financial number like retirement- as people earning $40k a year in a household figure it out.  It may take a while - definitely want have kids when you have the energy while you're still young.   

Expenses - only a few items
Car Insurance - - might be able to optimize here (I think Civic insurance is typically higher because of parts/people wanting to steal them).  But look to see if you could go with a different outfit/consider going liability only since you're just light drivers anyway. 

Food/groceries - Chicago is unique for groceries has many options for groceries and ethnic shops are way cheaper than the standard places. 

You have a good plan to down-shift one job to two with some awesome savings to rely on.

Look into your 401ks to see if you could do Mega-Back-Door roth. 

Other than that - you're doing splendid job. 

AMandM

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1673
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2019, 02:06:11 PM »
Another vote for making babies before money.

There are fertility issues in my family, too, and several people were greatly helped by NaPro treatment. They have you start charting your cycle right away to help diagnose & treat potential problems pre-conception--e.g. progesterone supplements to prevent early miscarriage.  Good luck!

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7946
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2019, 02:19:09 PM »
You guys are doing great. I agree with others that babies come first. Some of the infertility problems on this forum are heartbreaking.

MrThatsDifferent

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2317
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2019, 03:20:48 PM »
I second both of you seeing a fertility specialist and getting advice and everything checked out. You’re very young, no need to panic and 2021 is around the corner. In your shoes I’d definitely do FI first then kids. You’ll both be able to spend quality time while they are young. If fertility is any issues, you can freeze your eggs now as a precaution.

mistymoney

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2417
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2019, 09:56:49 AM »
I second both of you seeing a fertility specialist and getting advice and everything checked out. You’re very young, no need to panic and 2021 is around the corner. In your shoes I’d definitely do FI first then kids. You’ll both be able to spend quality time while they are young. If fertility is any issues, you can freeze your eggs now as a precaution.

2021 is 18 months away.....there are 9 months in the oven, and if it's quick - maybe 2-3 months to get it in the over.

so - starting now might just speed things up by 6 months at the most.

If it takes 2 years to conceive, then they would have needed to start more than a year ago.....

They could start now, and if it happens really fast - drop to one income for a few years. If it takes a year or two, they are on track.


stepingum

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 69
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2019, 09:24:34 PM »
Just a quick thought your about the SAHD plans. I (wife) am the high earner in the family so when I went back to work after having our first child, my husband cut his hours to 15/per week (working remotely and flexible schedule) and stayed home with our baby. It was HORRIBLE for all of us. Our baby was healthy but extremely high needs and he basically screamed for the entire 10 hours I was gone everyday, and then nursed at least every hour all night long. We had not gotten on any wait-lists for daycares (everything is more than a year out in our area) and couldn't afford a nanny because my husband was barely working. We all suffered on like that for 18 months until my husband had a major breakdown. I ended up quitting my job and we moved to Russia where the 15 hours a week my husband is working can support us. We plan to stay here until the boy can start school and hopefully I can get the job back that I loved.

Obviously horror stories like ours don't happen everyday, but I wish someone had warned us before we got locked into what seemed like a great idea. Consider yourself warned. Russia is awesome, by the way, but the boy STILL (and probably always will) challenges our mental health every single day and my husband has PTSD from the trauma. Those were the darkest days of my life; knowing that the two people I loved most were miserable and there wasn't anything I could do about it.

Sanitary Stache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1102
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2019, 11:31:29 AM »
Mistymoney's timeline makes a lot of sense to me.  If you get pregnant immediately then you'll be half way to your FI goal by the time you need to take maternity leave.  Shortening your one-income-after-baby time frame.
I don't know what your company's or your state's parental leave policies are, but you should be able to extend the post baby time off by 3-6 months by taking unpaid leave or working a reduced schedule to evaluate stepingum's warning about STAHP options without either of your losing your position. (I am in VT where 12 weeks parental leave is a state law).

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7946
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2019, 11:40:03 AM »
Step, what daycare would have kept a baby that cried for 10 hours straight?   I have known people with colicky babies where they barely slept the first year and no one had PTSD.  It sounds like something else was going on here.  I would have been taking the baby to the doctor and trying other things like formula to satisfy him.

ericrugiero

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 740
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2019, 11:54:30 AM »
If having a baby is a high priority I'd suggest you start trying sooner rather than later.  Odd are better if you start sooner plus you could possibly avoid expensive medical procedures to get pregnant.  Also, do you just want to have one kid or are you thinking more?  If you want more than one then that takes additional time. 

You are in a good situation to coast FI if that's what you want.  You could work, your husband could work, one or both of you could work part time, etc. 

LightTripper

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2403
  • Location: London, UK
  • Rural Londoner. Lazy workaholic. Confused.
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2019, 09:39:31 AM »
I'm significantly older and with kids already but one thing that jumped out was your comment on your husband's career.  I'm a consultant and it is pretty exhausting.  I find combining it with family life difficult and I'm planning to take a step massively back (or off!) next year when my son starts pre-school.  One thing that's struck me as I've got older is that while it is not easy to do consulting part time, there are sometimes ways - particularly if you are in your 30s or older with a bit of a network and track record behind you.

For example:
- I have a friend who was a consultant but took about 7 years not doing paid work after having her kids.  Because she didn't need to work (and kept saying "no") she managed to accidentally negotiate a 3 day a week, only 1 of which was in the office, term time only contract.
- A FoF works for one of the Big 4 accountants (but in consultancy rather than accounting) and works 3 days a week term times only: "behind the scenes" (rather than client facing) but still at a senior level.
- Another friend got very into gym instruction and fed up with his Big 4 consulting job.  Because he had the power to walk away he now does a mix of gym teaching, freelance work for his old employer (but without all the corporate b/s he used to have to deal with there), and some smaller projects that he does independently as a freelance with start ups (which is his top favourite thing).  He doesn't have kids: just wanted a more fulfilling life and could afford to take a massive pay cut to do what he actually wants to do because he had always been frugal, got paid to go to the gym, paid of his mortgage early, etc. etc.
- A former colleague moved back to her home country when she had kids, but still does work for us on an ad hoc basis when we are super-busy (but only if she has time - so generally in term time - and when we are super-busy). 

This is the amazing thing about being nearly FI even if you aren't fully FI: having the flexibility to be able to take the kind of work that won't pay regular bills but will contribute towards your retirement accounts or help pay for one-offs or holidays is actually incredibly valuable to lots of employers.  If you have the right network there are opportunities out there.

Obviously I'm not saying your partner would be able to juggle one of these with a tiny baby, but once baby is a bit older and could go into part time nursery etc. then your partner may well find that if he maintains his network there are opportunities to do bits of top up consulting/freelancing or one-off projects that would help you to FI if you aren't fully there yet.  It's one of the big advantages I've noticed to my friends who've had kids later rather than earlier, that they already have this network and so can find these opportunities (which are never advertised!) more easily.  Obviously there are lots of advantages to having kids early too, but I think by mid 30s chances are your partner will have a pretty good network and if he keeps the lines of communication open then opportunities to e.g. help out when his old employer are completely under water on an "ad hoc" basis may well be around.  So it doesn't necessarily have to be "all on you" to finish your earning if your partner stops to take care of babies.

In terms of expenses, if you are happy to take hand-me downs babies and young children cost very little beyond childcare.  As they get older they tend to have more opinions about what they wear and we've started to have to do e.g. gifts for birthday parties, and pay entry for more museums, transport, etc (whereas babies and toddlers go free most places).  My son at 2 is already having opinions in fact (much earlier than his sister!  But he is happy to "shop" the hand-me down bags as he doesn't know there is another option yet!).  My daughter is 5 and cares a bit more about what she wears, and we're offered fewer hand-me-downs for her these days - but she also wears her clothes for longer so it doesn't cost much.  Holidays get more expensive if you fly, and also once you are constrained to school holidays, but not so much if you drive or take trains (and term time only becomes a consideration when they are a bit older).

I believe teenagers are much more expensive, but we're not there yet!


EngineerOurFI

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Location: Texas
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2019, 01:14:35 PM »
My wife and I waited to have kids based on my fear that we needed to be more financially set up before having kids, etc. etc.  Now I recognize having a kid was pretty much the best thing ever and have no idea why I wanted to wait.  And now I think I want 3 kids but it may be too late for us to make that happen.  We started heavily planning on having kids when DW was 27-28.  Had first kid when she was almost 31.  I regret waiting because ultimately it took us 2 years to have the first kid and honestly the whole experience was harder on her with the added age, etc. 

I've had multiple friends who waited longer than initially planned to have kids and ultimately had fertility issues that dragged the process out an extra ~3-4 years.

If having kids is a priority to you - don't wait.  You're a mustachian and can figure out how to reduce the expenses to keep FIRE plans on track or minimally effected.  The money you've already saved will keep working for you even if one career has to downshift in the meantime, etc.

@YoungGranny It's not listed in your breakdown, but what is your total saving dollar figure or % right now?  Based on the expense you posted, you're saving a significant amount above your pre-tax deductions and likely will be able to continue a hefty savings % even if one parent stops working entirely and you factor in some 529 savings.

For what it's worth, only ~2 people in my network of ~20 people who have recently-ish gotten pregnant got pregnant as soon as they started trying.  Many of them took 1-2 years and me/my network are in same age range as OP.  In other words, you'll very likely be halfway to your original FIRE plans by the time the baby arrives.  And while, sure, you may have issues working while pregnant - almost all of the people I know (even some who were nearly on bedrest) were able to work or work from home - and since it sounds like you have a remote option already....you should (likely) be able to do the same.

remizidae

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 289
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2019, 09:21:14 PM »
Just a quick thought your about the SAHD plans. I (wife) am the high earner in the family so when I went back to work after having our first child, my husband cut his hours to 15/per week (working remotely and flexible schedule) and stayed home with our baby. It was HORRIBLE for all of us. Our baby was healthy but extremely high needs and he basically screamed for the entire 10 hours I was gone everyday, and then nursed at least every hour all night long. We had not gotten on any wait-lists for daycares (everything is more than a year out in our area) and couldn't afford a nanny because my husband was barely working. We all suffered on like that for 18 months until my husband had a major breakdown. I ended up quitting my job and we moved to Russia where the 15 hours a week my husband is working can support us. We plan to stay here until the boy can start school and hopefully I can get the job back that I loved.

Obviously horror stories like ours don't happen everyday, but I wish someone had warned us before we got locked into what seemed like a great idea. Consider yourself warned. Russia is awesome, by the way, but the boy STILL (and probably always will) challenges our mental health every single day and my husband has PTSD from the trauma. Those were the darkest days of my life; knowing that the two people I loved most were miserable and there wasn't anything I could do about it.

I’m sorry you had a bad experience, but I’m not sure what your point is. I’m sure you’re not suggesting that no one should ever be a stay at home father because it didn’t work for your husband.

OP—don’t let the gender roles enforcers get to you. If you like your job, keep working! The kid will be fine and you will be happier and have a stronger, more egalitarian marriage because of it.

Mrs. D.

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 123
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2019, 09:53:52 PM »
As someone who has experienced two second trimester losses and difficulty getting pregnant, I recommend you move your baby-making plans up if that is important to you. As flippant as this sounds, you can always get more money, but you will never get your youth or fertility back once gone. Or at least not without considerable expense and trouble.

^ this

blingwrx

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 84
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2019, 10:39:06 PM »
I agree with everyone else, start trying now especially if you want multiples. I honestly felt like 1 kid was easy, I don't know why some people complain about 1. Don't let some people on here scare you. It's 2 adults vs 1 baby and it's especially nice if you have family close by to help out here and there. I know it's a big change in lifestyle from being free to being responsible for a little one. 2 or more is a lot harder to juggle, my first kid was quite bad but we managed with tag teaming and taking shifts, so each of us got a bit of a break. Now we have two and there's no breaks, I can't go out without having to take 1 kid with me, back then 1 kid was a dream we could each take turns and take a break and go out to hang out with friends.

It also might not be the best idea to both be FIRE'd when you're pregnant as you'd lose your great employer subsidies health insurance. Health insurance is super expensive out of pocket. I saw the real price tag of the plan I had when I was on COBRA, they wanted $3000 a month in premiums to cover my family. You probably don't want to be on a cheap high deductible ACA plan for child birth as you'd most likely hit max out of pocket on the plan. It would be better if you had the companies platinum health insurance plan hopefully they provide you a good with with low deductibles.

As others have mentioned there may also be some paid leave available in your state, my state does provide 12 weeks partial paid leave. From what i've seen a lot of employers are very flexible with pregnant women, allowing them to work from home toward the end of their pregnancy and briefly after they return from leave to ease them back in.

I would say whom ever is better with the baby should be the SAHP. not everyone is naturally good with kids. It's a bigger learning curve for some. Most of the time it's most convenient for the mom to stay home if you plan on breastfeeding as once you returning to work the milk supply suffers even with pumping at work.

YoungGranny

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 751
  • Age: 33
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2019, 07:22:38 AM »
Thanks everyone for the comments! I really appreciate all the insight everyone was able to offer about who should keep working/not working etc. We're both in specialized careers and I think either one of us or both could negotiate part-time, work from home arrangements. My current WFH situation would likely be able to be negotiated to part-time status and I really do enjoy what I do. So, I think a nice blend of a long maternity leave + part-time would be the best of both worlds for me. My DH is definitely looking forward to some time off from working once we have a kid but also would probably pick something up in the future. Seems like we likely don't need to hit our full number before starting a family - I think since I grew up during the recession I always have this fear of not being able to afford my groceries but we're fortunate enough to have quite a buffer and lots of options moving forward.

@EngineerOurFI - we always contribute at least $5k to post-tax savings; typically closer to $7k a month.


Again, I really appreciate all the comments. We had been leaning towards starting a family sooner rather than later and it's nice to be able to bounce ideas off of the hive-mind here & confirm that we're not being silly by pushing our timeline forward.

EngineerOurFI

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Location: Texas
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2019, 01:34:09 PM »
@YoungGranny Your savings rate is awesome!  I need to work harder on mine! Glad the hive mind was helpful.  Good luck on the journey to 3 and FI!  Looking forward to hearing about progress.

Ben Kurtz

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 144
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2019, 08:52:31 PM »
Start trying for your family now.  You really don't know how long it will take.  Most mothers will go through some number of miscarriages, long periods of trying without success, or other roadblocks -- it's more talked about than it used to be, but people still don't quite realize how nearly universal it is to suffer through some kind of fertility issue or another (large or small) during a childbearing career.

If happily employed, both parents should stay that way throughout most or all of pregnancy.  Get on the best, most gold-plated employer-sponsored health plan you can during the next November / December open enrollment period.  This is one scenario in which the higher monthly premiums will almost certainly more than pay for themselves in lower deductibles and out-of-pocket expenses.  Stay on such a plan until your youngest child is two years old.  Then, if the family members are generally healthy, it may be worth dropping down to a cheap high-deductible plan.

When the kids are small, and if you are just barely in the FIRE zone financially, at least one parent should work enough hours to qualify for company benefits.  Eliminating the expense and uncertainty of health care costs at a time in your lives when those costs are likely to be quite high will provide a lot of peace of mind when you are just marginally at your financial independence number, and the wage income should also be enough to support the family, add a bit to your savings, and give a bit more time for your investments to compound.  If you semi-FIRE in 2020 or 2021 (i.e. drop down from 2 incomes to 1 income or 3/4 of an income), pushing your full FIRE date out from 2021 to 2023 or 2024, you really shouldn't fret.

Kids don't have to cost a lot of money, but they sure change household life enormously.  So beware of an overly prescriptive FIRE plan that relies on a very precisely scripted and budgeted home-life.  I'd suggest a looser plan with a bit more play around the joints, at least until you have your kids and the dust settles around that.

CindyBS

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 461
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2019, 02:06:29 PM »
Another vote here for having kids first.  I had my kids late 20's/early30's and am now mid-40's with teens and so happy I did not wait longer to have kids.  I have friends my age with kids under 7 and they are exhausted.

The other aspect is the grandparent thing.  If you wait longer to have kids, your parents will be older grandparents and possibly not around for a chunk of the kids lives.  Then you will probably be an older grandparent as well - there is a huge difference between being a grandparent in your late 50's (you have kid in your late 20s and so does your child) and becoming a grandparent in your 70's (you have a kid in your late 30's and so does your child).

My mom is not in great health but is in her mid-70's and was talking about how she is excited to see her grandkids become adults and launch into the world.  If I had had my kids in my late 30's instead of late 20's, she most likely would miss that. 

LightTripper

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2403
  • Location: London, UK
  • Rural Londoner. Lazy workaholic. Confused.
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2019, 09:44:43 AM »
We're both in specialized careers and I think either one of us or both could negotiate part-time, work from home arrangements. My current WFH situation would likely be able to be negotiated to part-time status and I really do enjoy what I do.

This is a great situation to be in.  If you are both flexible it makes everything easier.

We find our childcare easier to manage because we have quite different work commitments (even though we're both full time).  So my work is quite volatile: I absolutely HAVE to be there about 10% of the time - the rest of the time I could work from home/the moon and it's fine.  By contrast my OH has to be in the office 90% of the time BUT the advantage is he rarely has very specific commitments, so it doesn't really matter which 90% he is in as long as it's about 90% - so if there is something we need to cover at home and I can't, then he nearly always can.  Similarly he works early-to-early, while I work late-to-late.

People who have very similar work requirements (e.g. both have lots of travel, or both need to be in super-early, struggle more).

Your situation if you were both able to be part time and flexible would be even better!  So I would definitely be optimistic about not needing to be fully at your FI number before having kids. 

I had kids late and there are advantages, but I definitely do see that grandparents are older and less able to e.g. take the kids for a weekend, and we are more tired.  On the plus side we're also more confident, less liable to "sweat the small stuff", less bothered about missing out on nights out etc., more able to control our working lives (being higher up the "food chain") and less worried about money than our younger selves - but there are swings and roundabouts to all these decisions!  If you feel emotionally ready it sounds like you are financially ready and I would go for it!

mistymoney

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2417
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2019, 09:21:55 AM »
Thanks everyone for the comments! I really appreciate all the insight everyone was able to offer about who should keep working/not working etc. We're both in specialized careers and I think either one of us or both could negotiate part-time, work from home arrangements. My current WFH situation would likely be able to be negotiated to part-time status and I really do enjoy what I do. So, I think a nice blend of a long maternity leave + part-time would be the best of both worlds for me. My DH is definitely looking forward to some time off from working once we have a kid but also would probably pick something up in the future. Seems like we likely don't need to hit our full number before starting a family - I think since I grew up during the recession I always have this fear of not being able to afford my groceries but we're fortunate enough to have quite a buffer and lots of options moving forward.

@EngineerOurFI - we always contribute at least $5k to post-tax savings; typically closer to $7k a month.


Again, I really appreciate all the comments. We had been leaning towards starting a family sooner rather than later and it's nice to be able to bounce ideas off of the hive-mind here & confirm that we're not being silly by pushing our timeline forward.

I'm not clear on the net income from your rental, but it looks like if you both went to half time, WFH (assuming 1/2 salary for each) you'd be fine. I can't think of any good reason not to do that.

During a period of unemployment, I was home for about 6 months and really enjoyed it. But being able to work 20 hours/week in something I enjoyed would have really been a sweet deal. and both being at home you can switch off on child care, take kid/s on a walk or outing if the other has a conference call. It would be awesome.

Even if you ended up just making it financially (which I doubt!) - your current nestegg would grow impressively and your FIRE is really assured.

clarkfan1979

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3352
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Pueblo West, CO
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2019, 08:30:56 AM »
Have the baby asap. You both have done a wonderful job of building a strong financial foundation before you have a kid. You are 75% of the way there, which is awesome. Yes, MMM was 100% there before kids, but he is scary efficient. I mean that in a very positive way.

Like some other people have said, if it's possible for both of you to reduce your workload to 20-30 hours, that would be perfect. My wife and I do something similar.

If that's not possible, have your husband quit, but then immediately seek part-time work consulting. You should take the maximum 12 week family leave. If possible, he should also stay with his employer until the baby is born and also take the maximum family leave.

It's a personal decision, but my wife and I really liked doing all the child care ourselves for the first 2 years. Our child is now 2 years old and we feel more comfortable with the idea of day care. It would be good for him to get regular socialization instead of the occasional play date.



onward19

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 43
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2019, 10:16:41 AM »
Get pregnant while you're still young and hopefully healthy. Not to be all doom and gloom but so many things could go wrong. You could end up taking years to conceive. Or years to get a baby to full-term. Or end up with a difficult pregnancy. Or have an early delivery with a baby who goes into the NICU. You need good health insurance for all the unexpected things that can go wrong with trying to get pregnant, being pregnant, and delivering a baby. And you need time afterward to earn money to catch up for all the unexpected things that went wrong.
  We spent 9 years trying to conceive. We threw every penny we had and then some, toward TTC. We have nothing to show for those years in terms of finances - no retirement savings, no house. Just negative net worth, maxed out credit cards, gray hair, and major, major stress load. Now we're mid 30s and just turning our focus to putting money into the 401k, buying a house etc. Still, this could all be waylaid as we try for child #2 here shortly.
   Point is, start early for the family because you have no idea what's going to happen and how the unexpected could derail even the best laid plans.

MarciaB

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 544
  • Age: 62
  • Location: Oregon
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2019, 10:10:58 AM »
Another vote here for having kids first.  I had my kids late 20's/early30's and am now mid-40's with teens and so happy I did not wait longer to have kids.  I have friends my age with kids under 7 and they are exhausted.

The other aspect is the grandparent thing.  If you wait longer to have kids, your parents will be older grandparents and possibly not around for a chunk of the kids lives.  Then you will probably be an older grandparent as well - there is a huge difference between being a grandparent in your late 50's (you have kid in your late 20s and so does your child) and becoming a grandparent in your 70's (you have a kid in your late 30's and so does your child).

My mom is not in great health but is in her mid-70's and was talking about how she is excited to see her grandkids become adults and launch into the world.  If I had had my kids in my late 30's instead of late 20's, she most likely would miss that.


So much this. I was fortunate to have my child when her grandparents were in their 50s and it was hugely helpful. Now I'm in my 50s with a grandchild and I'm a big part of the support network that's enabling my daughter and her husband to build their careers and their family at the same time.


ToasterStache

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Case Study - Balancing FIRE and starting a family
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2019, 11:53:05 AM »
Congrats! You're on your way and have an awesome start. Good luck with the family planning and FIRE-ing. I'm older but otherwise in much the same boat. We had fertility issues and unsuccessful IVF attempts, and are now waiting to adopt. The waiting is hard but we at least know that we can get closer to FIRE-ing before we become parents. (gotta find those silver linings!) With much out of our control now it's good to have goals to work for and make progress towards every month. Your savings rate is amazing I'll keep it in mind as I try to increase mine. Best of luck and well done so far!