Let's Find Out How Much Sailing Costs!

[baconschteam]

Hello all — my dreams of sailing have been wrestling with my money mustache muscles for years and, after much persistence, they have prevailed!



The purpose of this thread is to serve both as accountability to myself and an experiment for anybody interested in exploring how much this notoriously expensive hobby might realistically cost. This thread might serve as an example of anti-mustachian folly; a mustachian gone astray. What will be missing from this accounting will be all the fun I'll be having, which will be hard to quantify.

DISCLAIMER: OWNING A BOAT IS NOT MUSTACHIAN. As far as boating goes, sailing does tend to be the more mustachian variant. And while all costs associated with sailing are unnecessary, we will try to keep it as frugal as possible. All parts will be purchased secondhand when possible, all work done will be DIY (I have access to a full fabrication shop at work). Boat will be stored in the backyard on it's trailer. The cheapest way to sail would have been to find a friend with a sailboat, to offer myself as crew on other people's boats, to join a sailing club. These are all great options for somebody looking to sail. That's not what I did.

For reference: I do not know how to sail. I sailed with my father when I was a child and these are some of my most cherished memories from those times. Unfortunately, I did not gain much practical knowledge from these experiences and he is no longer around to pass on the knowledge. You may see some "sailing lesson" expenses on this thread in the springtime next year.

Also for reference: DW is cautiously excited, but won't step foot on the boat until I know what I'm doing.

So let's begin!

SAILING EXENSES SO FAR

• $1,300 - Craigslist - Sailboat - 2009 Com-Pac Legacy 16' with functioning trailer and disfunctional but fancy electric motor (Torqeedo) that I may be able to sell at some point. Includes all lines, rigging, two sets of sails, fenders, one life vest, some flares, some water and mold in the cabin from a few leaks in the top
• $30 - Marina - Ramp fee
• $7.45 - Amazon - paracord
• $18.20 - Amazon - snap shackles
• $72.60 - Amazon - disinfectant/antifungal chemicals, pump sprayer
• $12 - Amazon - lemon oil
• $18.02 - Amazon - 4' anchor chain and shackles
• $30.81 - Amazon - 150' anchor line
• $137.59 - Amazon - 50 aH deep cycle battery
• $213.77 - Amazon - Newport 62 lb thrust electric trolling motor
• $26.65 - Amazon - Captain Tolley's creeping crack filler
• $37 - Exxon - gas when I borrowed my friend's Jeep
• $20 - Home Depot - extension cord
• $10 - Facebook market - box fan (to prevent mildew during storage)
• $80 - Facebook market - GE dehumidifier (flooding remediation)
• $2,014.09 - Total after 2 weeks of ownership

Does anybody think I should also keep track of my hours of labor? I'm about 2 weekends deep so far!
Or any other suggestions/comments on the methodology of this experiment?

[baconschteam]

SAILING EXPENSES SO FAR

• $2014.09 - Previous total
• $15.98 - annual NJ boat ramp permit
• $2030.07 - New total

[GilesMM]

A friend of mine joined a sailing club in Oakland and sails a lot in SF Bay on some really nice boats for minimal cost.  He doesn’t own a boat.

[baconschteam]

A friend of mine joined a sailing club in Oakland and sails a lot in SF Bay on some really nice boats for minimal cost.  He doesn’t own a boat.

That sounds like a reasonable way to sail. Any idea what a sailing club membership costs? (Anybody?)

[daverobev]

A friend of mine joined a sailing club in Oakland and sails a lot in SF Bay on some really nice boats for minimal cost.  He doesn’t own a boat.

That sounds like a reasonable way to sail. Any idea what a sailing club membership costs? (Anybody?)

Hearsay but... sailing boat owners are always looking for people to crew for them. So you get the joy of sailing but it's literally free (and sometimes you get fed/looked after!). This was the case when I last lived near the sea.

[GilesMM]

A friend of mine joined a sailing club in Oakland and sails a lot in SF Bay on some really nice boats for minimal cost.  He doesn’t own a boat.

That sounds like a reasonable way to sail. Any idea what a sailing club membership costs? (Anybody?)

Around $150/quarter in the overpriced Bay area for a membership (without a boat).

[ixtap]

Captain Tilley's was a waste. You need to find the leaks and address them. Since your boat isn't that old, start with anything added by previous owners. Take it apart, see if they prepared it properly.

Compass Marine/ Maine Marine has good tutorials on prepping and sealing anything you add to a boat. Basically, if you need a new whole, drill it oversized, fill it with epoxy and then drill the hole you need. Butyl works wonders as a sealant in most applications.

And yes, for those who have them nearby, try a sailing club, first. Some are really cheap. There is one in San Diego that is so minimalist you have to bring your own battery to use the lights.

[baconschteam]

A friend of mine joined a sailing club in Oakland and sails a lot in SF Bay on some really nice boats for minimal cost.  He doesn’t own a boat.

That sounds like a reasonable way to sail. Any idea what a sailing club membership costs? (Anybody?)

Hearsay but... sailing boat owners are always looking for people to crew for them. So you get the joy of sailing but it's literally free (and sometimes you get fed/looked after!). This was the case when I last lived near the sea.

I may yet try this, as well, to meet and learn from better sailors. I completely understand that what I'm doing is not the cheapest way to sail.

[baconschteam]

Captain Tilley's was a waste. You need to find the leaks and address them. Since your boat isn't that old, start with anything added by previous owners. Take it apart, see if they prepared it properly.

Compass Marine/ Maine Marine has good tutorials on prepping and sealing anything you add to a boat. Basically, if you need a new whole, drill it oversized, fill it with epoxy and then drill the hole you need. Butyl works wonders as a sealant in most applications.

And yes, for those who have them nearby, try a sailing club, first. Some are really cheap. There is one in San Diego that is so minimalist you have to bring your own battery to use the lights.

Thanks for the suggestion. You are  right. I can see where the leaks are from staining/rust in the cabin. One at one of the connections between the pulpit and the deck. One at the front hook where the boat gets pulled onto the trailer. And then a few between where the top and the bottom parts of the boat are fastened together, looks like a couple good knocks against some pilings may have broken the seal here and cracked some of the fiberglass. I will not have time to address all of these leaks until next year. The leaks between the two parts of the boat are particularly worrisome, and I thought the captain Tolley's could serve as a temporary fix until I have time to do the work the right way (which I still have to learn/research). Do you think the temporary fix idea is a bad one?

[ixtap]

Captain Tilley's was a waste. You need to find the leaks and address them. Since your boat isn't that old, start with anything added by previous owners. Take it apart, see if they prepared it properly.

Compass Marine/ Maine Marine has good tutorials on prepping and sealing anything you add to a boat. Basically, if you need a new whole, drill it oversized, fill it with epoxy and then drill the hole you need. Butyl works wonders as a sealant in most applications.

And yes, for those who have them nearby, try a sailing club, first. Some are really cheap. There is one in San Diego that is so minimalist you have to bring your own battery to use the lights.

Thanks for the suggestion. You are  right. I can see where the leaks are from staining/rust in the cabin. One at one of the connections between the pulpit and the deck. One at the front hook where the boat gets pulled onto the trailer. And then a few between where the top and the bottom parts of the boat are fastened together, looks like a couple good knocks against some pilings may have broken the seal here and cracked some of the fiberglass. I will not have time to address all of these leaks until next year. The leaks between the two parts of the boat are particularly worrisome, and I thought the captain Tolley's could serve as a temporary fix until I have time to do the work the right way (which I still have to learn/research). Do you think the temporary fix idea is a bad one?

To address the deck hull joint, you will actually need to pry the two apart, clean it up, make any repairs and sandwich the two back together with a good marine sealant (butyl won't work for this one).

As you describe, with a leak at the trailer U bolt, I would not consider this boat safe to use even in mild conditions.

You chose a good model of boat, but it sounds like this one has been hard done by. I would not put another penny into it until you decide how to address that deck hull joint.

[baconschteam]

Captain Tilley's was a waste. You need to find the leaks and address them. Since your boat isn't that old, start with anything added by previous owners. Take it apart, see if they prepared it properly.

Compass Marine/ Maine Marine has good tutorials on prepping and sealing anything you add to a boat. Basically, if you need a new whole, drill it oversized, fill it with epoxy and then drill the hole you need. Butyl works wonders as a sealant in most applications.

And yes, for those who have them nearby, try a sailing club, first. Some are really cheap. There is one in San Diego that is so minimalist you have to bring your own battery to use the lights.

Thanks for the suggestion. You are  right. I can see where the leaks are from staining/rust in the cabin. One at one of the connections between the pulpit and the deck. One at the front hook where the boat gets pulled onto the trailer. And then a few between where the top and the bottom parts of the boat are fastened together, looks like a couple good knocks against some pilings may have broken the seal here and cracked some of the fiberglass. I will not have time to address all of these leaks until next year. The leaks between the two parts of the boat are particularly worrisome, and I thought the captain Tolley's could serve as a temporary fix until I have time to do the work the right way (which I still have to learn/research). Do you think the temporary fix idea is a bad one?

To address the deck hull joint, you will actually need to pry the two apart, clean it up, make any repairs and sandwich the two back together with a good marine sealant (butyl won't work for this one).

As you describe, with a leak at the trailer U bolt, I would not consider this boat safe to use even in mild conditions.

You chose a good model of boat, but it sounds like this one has been hard done by. I would not put another penny into it until you decide how to address that deck hull joint.

The leaks are slow, well above the water line, purely capillary action type leaks. I don't see how this presents much of an immediate risk taking the boat to a lake on a mild day. And, I am fully prepared to separate the hull in the spring and reseal it properly. That sounds like fun to me.

[baconschteam]

P.S. - I've edited the original post to highlight the fact I am fully aware that owning a boat is fundamentally not a mustachian pursuit

[Heckler]

Congrats on the cute little boat!  I hope you use it for every penny of fun!

The expensive part is to come, when you pine longingly for a larger boat like my dad did for years.  Thankfully, he never fell into that money pit.

No idea of his actual expenses over the years, but I do know the list:

21' full keel Alberg built in the early 70's
-new Johnson outboard motor
-new sails, main and jib
-new furling Genoa (loved that upgrade!)
-new Loran-C (could never get that thing to tell us where we were, even though we could see home port most of the time)
-new VHF radio (never really used it, but I suppose the one SOS you really need it, it'll be worth every penny)
-annual anti-fouling paint and teak oiling
-service on the no longer new motor
-a big V8 van to pull it across the road to the marina
-full Wetskins wet weather gear for the whole family of 4
-annual crane in and out lift (I remember $800 each time)
-monthly dock storage (luckily with the old man who sold him the boat and still loved her)
-a custom self-built giant garage to store her over the winter (now used to store the bigger camper van)
-long time pining over the 30' Alberg we once met that you could stand vertical in.

The typical ending to the story - everyone in the family asking him to sell her after many years of non use, he finally sold it for a huge loss at his ripe old age of 81, but only after I threatened a Viking funeral if he didn't.

[Heckler]

A friend of mine joined a sailing club in Oakland and sails a lot in SF Bay on some really nice boats for minimal cost.  He doesn’t own a boat.

if it floats, flies or fucks, rent it.

[ixtap]

Captain Tilley's was a waste. You need to find the leaks and address them. Since your boat isn't that old, start with anything added by previous owners. Take it apart, see if they prepared it properly.

Compass Marine/ Maine Marine has good tutorials on prepping and sealing anything you add to a boat. Basically, if you need a new whole, drill it oversized, fill it with epoxy and then drill the hole you need. Butyl works wonders as a sealant in most applications.

And yes, for those who have them nearby, try a sailing club, first. Some are really cheap. There is one in San Diego that is so minimalist you have to bring your own battery to use the lights.

Thanks for the suggestion. You are  right. I can see where the leaks are from staining/rust in the cabin. One at one of the connections between the pulpit and the deck. One at the front hook where the boat gets pulled onto the trailer. And then a few between where the top and the bottom parts of the boat are fastened together, looks like a couple good knocks against some pilings may have broken the seal here and cracked some of the fiberglass. I will not have time to address all of these leaks until next year. The leaks between the two parts of the boat are particularly worrisome, and I thought the captain Tolley's could serve as a temporary fix until I have time to do the work the right way (which I still have to learn/research). Do you think the temporary fix idea is a bad one?

To address the deck hull joint, you will actually need to pry the two apart, clean it up, make any repairs and sandwich the two back together with a good marine sealant (butyl won't work for this one).

As you describe, with a leak at the trailer U bolt, I would not consider this boat safe to use even in mild conditions.

You chose a good model of boat, but it sounds like this one has been hard done by. I would not put another penny into it until you decide how to address that deck hull joint.

The leaks are slow, well above the water line, purely capillary action type leaks. I don't see how this presents much of an immediate risk taking the boat to a lake on a mild day. And, I am fully prepared to separate the hull in the spring and reseal it properly. That sounds like fun to me.

Because water is corrosive and if it is leaking at the trailer U bolt, that is being wiggled while trailering, weakening the fiberglass around it. Also, while it may sit above the waterline, if you are getting any speed*, the bow wake is probably splashing it. That should be a straightforward job on this size boat.

 The rest, I agree, can probably wait.

[baconschteam]

Captain Tilley's was a waste. You need to find the leaks and address them. Since your boat isn't that old, start with anything added by previous owners. Take it apart, see if they prepared it properly.

Compass Marine/ Maine Marine has good tutorials on prepping and sealing anything you add to a boat. Basically, if you need a new whole, drill it oversized, fill it with epoxy and then drill the hole you need. Butyl works wonders as a sealant in most applications.

And yes, for those who have them nearby, try a sailing club, first. Some are really cheap. There is one in San Diego that is so minimalist you have to bring your own battery to use the lights.

Thanks for the suggestion. You are  right. I can see where the leaks are from staining/rust in the cabin. One at one of the connections between the pulpit and the deck. One at the front hook where the boat gets pulled onto the trailer. And then a few between where the top and the bottom parts of the boat are fastened together, looks like a couple good knocks against some pilings may have broken the seal here and cracked some of the fiberglass. I will not have time to address all of these leaks until next year. The leaks between the two parts of the boat are particularly worrisome, and I thought the captain Tolley's could serve as a temporary fix until I have time to do the work the right way (which I still have to learn/research). Do you think the temporary fix idea is a bad one?

To address the deck hull joint, you will actually need to pry the two apart, clean it up, make any repairs and sandwich the two back together with a good marine sealant (butyl won't work for this one).

As you describe, with a leak at the trailer U bolt, I would not consider this boat safe to use even in mild conditions.

You chose a good model of boat, but it sounds like this one has been hard done by. I would not put another penny into it until you decide how to address that deck hull joint.

The leaks are slow, well above the water line, purely capillary action type leaks. I don't see how this presents much of an immediate risk taking the boat to a lake on a mild day. And, I am fully prepared to separate the hull in the spring and reseal it properly. That sounds like fun to me.

Because water is corrosive and if it is leaking at the trailer U bolt, that is being wiggled while trailering, weakening the fiberglass around it. Also, while it may sit above the waterline, if you are getting any speed*, the bow wake is probably splashing it. That should be a straightforward job on this size boat.

 The rest, I agree, can probably wait.

Word. I'll get on it.

[Captain FIRE]

Congratulations on the second happiest day of your life! (The first of course being the day you sell it.)

For those wondering, an annual (Apr-Oct) sailing membership near me (HCOL) starts at $450.

[baconschteam]

After a bit of research, it seems the closest sailing club with boats that one can take out for the day is in Philly, at a cost of $1100 per season, and it takes at least a season of crewing with them before you can actually take a boat out on your own. I believe that, after a few years, I will come out ahead with my purchase (as far as boating goes..).

But let's find out!

SAILING EXPENSES SO FAR

• $2030.07 - previous total
• $52.22 - Amazon - spare tire for trailer
• $45.59 - Amazon - solar battery charger
• $18.98 - Amazon - air horn, roll of fiberglass for repairs
• $2146.86 - New Total

[CowboyAndIndian]

I've always wanted to sail, but never learned formally. I plan to do so at a local yacht club down in St. Pete when I'm in the area.

I have been following a few youtube channels, mostly because they are very good at fixing boats also ("Sailing Uma" and "Sail Life").  So, following since I love some boat porn ;-). If you do any fixes, please post photos.

Also, hi from a fellow Joisey guy.

[AMandM]

Thank you, OP! Whenever DH says, "Hey, look, there's a Sunfish on Craigslist for less than $1k!" I will point him to this thread ;-)

[ixtap]

Thank you, OP! Whenever DH says, "Hey, look, there's a Sunfish on Craigslist for less than $1k!" I will point him to this thread ;-)

Nah, a sunfish is a much more simple boat, so even if it needs repairs it wouldn't add up like it does on anything with an interior.

[baconschteam]

Been meaning to post again for a while. I recently purchased an SUV in order to safely tow the boat! 10 years ago I probably would have risked towing it with a regular car but I’m a bit more risk-adverse these days. We did need a second car anyway, for my wife. We purchased a 2007 Lexus RX 400h (a hybrid) and it is kind of awesome. We used to have a Prius and I would do all of the work on it myself. When I opened the hood of the 400h I recognized everything, it’s basically a V6 Prius. Gets around 30 mpg. This car will drive a maximum of 150 miles per month, so I am not too worried about the efficiency. If we didn’t get the SUV we probably would have gotten a Toyota Matrix. The efficiency really wouldn’t be so different. I estimate that I would have been able to find a Matrix with similar mileage (99k) for around $1000 less, so this is the amount that I will tally here. I payed $5500 for this car.

SAILING EXPENSES SO FAR

• $2146.86 - previous total
• $1000 - FB Market - car
• $220 - DMV - title/registration for sailboat and trailer
• $110 - Amazon - tow hitch receiver
• $15 - FB Market - tow hitch ball
• $22 - Lowe’s - 3M 5200 (thanks @ixtap)
• -$26.65 - Amazon - return of Captain Tolley’s crack filler
• $3487.21 - New Total

The total is starting to sting a bit!

[ixtap]

We broke out whisker pole yesterday and will either have to give up on it or MacGyver it, so free for now? That's one thing about cruising: you spend a bunch of money, then there is nowhere at all to spend money for awhile.

[NorCal]

A friend of mine joined a sailing club in Oakland and sails a lot in SF Bay on some really nice boats for minimal cost.  He doesn’t own a boat.

That sounds like a reasonable way to sail. Any idea what a sailing club membership costs? (Anybody?)

Around $150/quarter in the overpriced Bay area for a membership (without a boat).

I did a one year sailing club membership with my wife a little more than a decade ago, so I'm sure a lot has changed.  This was a couple thing to do right before we had our first kid.

Prices vary heavily based on what is included and what is paid for on a usage basis.

I think our membership was about $3k/yr at the time.  It included free group-sailing on weekends, and we could take out the clubs boats solo for something like $100/day.

It wasn't cheap by any means, but it was cheaper than owning a boat. 

[Askel]

Ah, thanks for this. Just want to follow along. My dad loves boats and I grew up with access to all kinds including a little butterfly class boat I loved to sail. 

And stuff like this really speaks to my dirtbag hippie side:



But here on Lake Superior, we have maybe 3 months of good sailing weather and even then, she can be a very harsh mistress.   

As such, plenty of 25-30 foot boats around that can be had for dirt cheap.

[ixtap]

Ah, thanks for this. Just want to follow along. My dad loves boats and I grew up with access to all kinds including a little butterfly class boat I loved to sail. 

And stuff like this really speaks to my dirtbag hippie side:



But here on Lake Superior, we have maybe 3 months of good sailing weather and even then, she can be a very harsh mistress.   

As such, plenty of 25-30 foot boats around that can be had for dirt cheap.

I was wondering the other day if that documentary was still around!

[Askel]

I watch it every couple of months so it's still doing numbers. :D 

[Posthumane]

About a decade ago when we lived in the prairies my wife and I took up sailing by buying a 16' wayfarer clone (CL16) with a trailer and no motor. It lived in the driveway when we weren't using it, and I towed it to various lakes using an old Subaru outback. It was actually one of the least expensive hobbies I had. Eventually we sold it as the act of driving an hour to a lake, spending an hour rigging and launching the boat, sailing around a couple hours, and then spending an equal amount of time derigging it and towing it home got old.

When we moved to the coast I decided I wanted another boat and got a 23' paceship. This turned out to be much more expensive. It was a fixed keel boat so no trailering it; it had to live in a marina. The annual storage costs were over 60% the value of the boat. It needed a motor for a relatively lengthy transit in and out of the marina/harbour. It also turned out that the area where we live has very unreliable winds (many hours spent bobbing around or motoring), and that my wife doesn't feel comfortable sailing in the ocean (even though we're in a very sheltered area). Sold that boat recently and if I decide to get another one it will be a trailer sailor again.

I think you are going about this the right way.

[baconschteam]

Ah, thanks for this. Just want to follow along. My dad loves boats and I grew up with access to all kinds including a little butterfly class boat I loved to sail. 

And stuff like this really speaks to my dirtbag hippie side:



But here on Lake Superior, we have maybe 3 months of good sailing weather and even then, she can be a very harsh mistress.   

As such, plenty of 25-30 foot boats around that can be had for dirt cheap.

Thanks for sharing this video!! I love it.

I do like to think of mustachianism as sort of non-traditional anarchism. Instead of sidestepping capitalism here, we dive in head-on, trying to make it through to the other side as quickly as possible. Not to generalize.. This is how think of it for myself.


SAILING EXPENSES SO FAR

• $3487.21 - Previous Total
• $30 - FB Market -  11lb plow anchor
• $3517.21 - New Total

[Bee21]

Good luck. It will be interesting to follow your adventures. 

So far it sounds cheap, but we all know that boats are expensive:)

Ours costs 2-4k a year. Except when she needs a new engine (those numbers are not pretty). Allegedly  it's cheaper than therapy.

The best investment of this year was a sailing course for my husband. I also tagged along to ensure that he does not buy a yacht at the end.  He came home fully convinced that we have the right boat and there is no need for an upgrade, so we are very happy with the outcome. 

[Bee21]

Why don't you rent a functional one for a week and take the wife on a sailing trip? If she hates it, you will be in a world of hurt. It would be good to know if she enjoys it before you xink more money into it.

I saw plenty of boats sold because the spouse hated the experience.