Author Topic: Help us prepare for our first house purchase  (Read 1907 times)

zeli2033

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Help us prepare for our first house purchase
« on: October 12, 2020, 03:54:26 PM »
Alright Mustachians. You've given me oodles of great advice in the past so I turn to you again before making a dumb decision.

My questions are specific to purchasing our first house and the best way to prepare for that. I've modified the case study data to reflect what I think needs to be shared to receive advice but if something critical is missing, let me know and I'll revise.

Life Situation: Married, both early 30s. 1 toddler (1yo).

Gross Income: $250k/year between the two of us. Salary 1: $150k. Salary 2: $100k. This is new.
- We DCA max 401(k)s, HSA. Husband's paycheck pays for health insurance.
- Until recent salary increases, we also maxed Roths the last couple of years. We're looking into backdoor roths for 2020 so assume another $12k goes to annual savings.
- Net pay/month with new salary increase should be ~$12.4k (TBC)

Current Expenses: ~$6000/month
-Rent: $2650. 2b/2ba. HCOL.
-Daycare: $1600. FML.
-Food/Household: $1,200. Yes I know. It's ridiculous and shameful. When we actually try, this number is around ~800. Still terrible. But pandemic-with-toddler stress and new work stress means I'll plan for this nonsense to continue until someone smacks us silly/we feel enough pain to make a change.
-Bills/Utilities/Subscriptions (streaming/internet/cellphones/etc): $300
-Transportation/Insurance: ~$225 (this is an average over last 3 months for gas, 6-month insurance premiums, and maintenance). Usually not this much especially since we only drive to/from daycare or occasional grocery outings).

Are we spending too much on things? Absolutely. That's not what this case study is about, though (although I won't say no to a facepunch. Who knows, maybe a collective forum shaming will help us get back on the straight and narrow).

Assets: $219k
-Combined Pre-Tax [401(k)'s, Traditional IRA]: $144k
-Combined Roths: $40k
-HSA: $13k
-Cash (includes efund): $22k

Liabilities:
None. In the last 18 months, we paid off a shit-heap of student loan debt and medical bills.

Add'l Background:
- We both WFH permanently (this is not COVID-related, it was determined pre pandemic.) We will be WFH for the foreseeable future and need to be outfitted accordingly.
- We want to move to a larger space as soon as it's feasible. Our ideal housing would give us 3 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms so we have at least one closed-door office. 4 bedrooms would be *chef's kiss* as it provides a guest room/second office and eventual second child's room, if that happens. Most houses in the areas we'd consider are going between $550-600K so that's the budget we're working toward.
- We don't plan to leave our HCOL area - we like it and we're close to family (if only that family could watch this baby all day...)
- Our lease is up in April. We have 6 months to decide what to do next (well, to get ourselves in as optimal a position so we have options and can think through our decision).
- We might have another child in the next few years.

Specific Questions:

*Overarching question - what would you advise to get us in as optimal a position as possible to purchase a house in the next 6-18 months?

1. We are nowhere close to having a downpayment on a house. If we put pedal to the metal and saved all add'l net, we could scrape together ~$36k by the time our lease ends, a 5-6% DP on most of the homes we'd be interested in. Of course this doesn't account for closing costs or any other things we'd need so I imagine we'd have to use some of our current cash with a goal of maintaining a 3-mo barebones efund at minimum (12k). Is this worth considering as a possibility?

2. Related to above, DH thinks if we really want to entertain being able to buy this Spring (or shortly thereafter assuming our landlord is open to month-to-month), we should drop to the employer match only. What do you think?

3. I'm also anxious to start investing in a taxable brokerage account but I can't figure out how/when it makes sense to add that to the mix given my current priority seems to be a house DP. What would you advise?

Even as I write these questions out, I feel like the answer is "Stop looking at houses to avoid fomo and learn to talk real quiet on all those calls in the meantime while you WFH. Automate savings to a taxable account and house DP. Don't buy a house until you have a 20% DP (or at least wait to see what shakes out with this current housing market insanity while you acquire a larger DP)." But what do I know. I'll ask the hive mind anyway. Your advice would be much appreciated :)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 04:01:37 PM by zeli2033 »

maisymouser

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Re: Help us prepare for our first house purchase
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2020, 07:25:41 PM »
I'm not one to give great advice. Did want to drop a chuckle, I like your style of writing to the forum-goers. I always appreciate someone who is asking a group to 'smack them silly' and who 'won't say no' to a facepunch.

I'm not much of a number cruncher but my first thought is, it seems like if you could just compromise on not living in your HCOL you'd be in a really great place to buy a SUPER NICE house AND reach FIRE pretty easily, even with another kid. I know you want to live close to family and you like it, but your daycare costs AND housing costs might drop precipitously if you'd consider it. Man, if I knew I could WFH forever I would be looking at some amazing homesteading properties just an hour or so away from a HCOL. But, if that's a dealbreaker for you, I won't try and convince you otherwise.

I'm having trouble NOT looking at houses myself lately, even though we've got it made in the shade where we live now, other than not having gardening space (oh, how I MISS having 5+ acres...) I figure it's a pretty bad time to buy since it seems like there could really be a major economic downturn that causes precipitous drops in real estate, like you hinted at. I might be wrong, but I would feel pretty shitty if that happened right after I bought a new house. If you don't *need* to buy a house right now, maybe wait just a bit? As for myself, I will need to find a better school district so I am not jumping on anything I see until the time-to-kindergarten window narrows significantly.

Curious- what have you been spending on in the food/household category that reduces your stress? I'm reading that line as "we are spending a lot to stay sane", but I am really interested to know what that means.

zeli2033

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Re: Help us prepare for our first house purchase
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2020, 10:23:15 PM »
Curious- what have you been spending on in the food/household category that reduces your stress? I'm reading that line as "we are spending a lot to stay sane", but I am really interested to know what that means.

Great question @maisymouser ! I'd love to give us credit and say we're spending to stay sane but what we're mostly doing is eschewing intentional/delayed gratification and choosing to serve wants over needs. Over the last several months, it's been a mix of one-time purchases we'd been thinking about, random stuff we didn't necessarily need, and getting takeout delivered a few times per month. A sampling:

- We don't have AC since we live somewhere with historically pretty mild summers. Enter terrible heat waves and us outfitting ourselves with a bunch of fans and a swamp cooler: ~$400.
- Why don't I have an Instantpot?! I've wanted one for awhile, it's way too hot to cook meals otherwise so I'm buying one. $100 (Excellent purchase).
- Ahhh the west coast is on fire! We need air purifiers. We bought some online as cheap as we could find them ($400) but surprise they were actually sold out so we panic bought some pricey Dyson ones as soon as a few were back in stock. $900. We did get refunds for the sold out ones but this one still hurts. However our lungs no longer do so I'll take it.
- Even if I vacuum and mop every other day there is still somehow ash all over our house. Plus HAHA we work full time and have a toddler. I'm not cleaning this damn house every other day. F it, I'm investing in a roomba. $250 (100% would do again.)

When I re-read the above, I seriously question my sanity. Why on earth are we choosing to stay here?! Believe me, if I can get my family to move we're open to other cities but until that happens, we'll stay somewhat nearby. It's too important for us to raise our kiddo around them. We are looking outside of city centers though so there's that!

You're probably right...we don't NEED to buy soon. And yet...

maisymouser

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Re: Help us prepare for our first house purchase
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2020, 07:12:13 AM »
Curious- what have you been spending on in the food/household category that reduces your stress? I'm reading that line as "we are spending a lot to stay sane", but I am really interested to know what that means.

Great question @maisymouser ! I'd love to give us credit and say we're spending to stay sane but what we're mostly doing is eschewing intentional/delayed gratification and choosing to serve wants over needs. Over the last several months, it's been a mix of one-time purchases we'd been thinking about, random stuff we didn't necessarily need, and getting takeout delivered a few times per month. A sampling:

- We don't have AC since we live somewhere with historically pretty mild summers. Enter terrible heat waves and us outfitting ourselves with a bunch of fans and a swamp cooler: ~$400.
- Why don't I have an Instantpot?! I've wanted one for awhile, it's way too hot to cook meals otherwise so I'm buying one. $100 (Excellent purchase).
- Ahhh the west coast is on fire! We need air purifiers. We bought some online as cheap as we could find them ($400) but surprise they were actually sold out so we panic bought some pricey Dyson ones as soon as a few were back in stock. $900. We did get refunds for the sold out ones but this one still hurts. However our lungs no longer do so I'll take it.
- Even if I vacuum and mop every other day there is still somehow ash all over our house. Plus HAHA we work full time and have a toddler. I'm not cleaning this damn house every other day. F it, I'm investing in a roomba. $250 (100% would do again.)

When I re-read the above, I seriously question my sanity. Why on earth are we choosing to stay here?! Believe me, if I can get my family to move we're open to other cities but until that happens, we'll stay somewhat nearby. It's too important for us to raise our kiddo around them. We are looking outside of city centers though so there's that!

You're probably right...we don't NEED to buy soon. And yet...

I'm also the parent of a toddler (2yo) so I understand your pain... we just lost our daycare abruptly for the week due to potential COVID exposure for the second time THIS MONTH. It's been a wild ride. I don't mean to take the point of your study off topic but I have some thoughts/advice. First off, it seems like buying air purifiers because the WORLD IS ON EFFING FIRE is not a spendypants all-frills purchase. You should give yourself credit for just getting what you can to keep your family's lungs safe. Glad to hear you like your Roomba. I thought about it back when my toddler was a newborn, but we had too many unique transition points/spots in our house and I didn't like how long it had to run to clean the floor. The AC and fans seem more like 'investments' in the sense that you will use them probably until either they break or you don't need them (i.e. move to a house with those items), in which case you can probably sell them for a not-total loss. At least, that's what we would do. The only other item- the Instapot- did you consider looking for one of those used? I also have one and LOVE it, but it was only $45 new. If I had to get one again I'd be looking at Craigslist to save a few bucks. But yeah, overall, I don't think you should be asking for stache-slaps on most of those items- your air quality and keeping ashes off your kid's body on a daily basis seem pretty reasonable to me.

Best of luck and I hope other more quantitative-minded people can give you input on a strategy. I know I'm struggling with that question and we do own a perfectly nice enough house.

tamuaggie2011

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Re: Help us prepare for our first house purchase
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2020, 07:47:21 AM »
Quote
Great question @maisymouser ! I'd love to give us credit and say we're spending to stay sane but what we're mostly doing is eschewing intentional/delayed gratification and choosing to serve wants over needs. Over the last several months, it's been a mix of one-time purchases we'd been thinking about, random stuff we didn't necessarily need, and getting takeout delivered a few times per month. A sampling:

- We don't have AC since we live somewhere with historically pretty mild summers. Enter terrible heat waves and us outfitting ourselves with a bunch of fans and a swamp cooler: ~$400.
- Why don't I have an Instantpot?! I've wanted one for awhile, it's way too hot to cook meals otherwise so I'm buying one. $100 (Excellent purchase).
- Ahhh the west coast is on fire! We need air purifiers. We bought some online as cheap as we could find them ($400) but surprise they were actually sold out so we panic bought some pricey Dyson ones as soon as a few were back in stock. $900. We did get refunds for the sold out ones but this one still hurts. However our lungs no longer do so I'll take it.
- Even if I vacuum and mop every other day there is still somehow ash all over our house. Plus HAHA we work full time and have a toddler. I'm not cleaning this damn house every other day. F it, I'm investing in a roomba. $250 (100% would do again.)

When I re-read the above, I seriously question my sanity. Why on earth are we choosing to stay here?! Believe me, if I can get my family to move we're open to other cities but until that happens, we'll stay somewhat nearby. It's too important for us to raise our kiddo around them. We are looking outside of city centers though so there's that!

You're probably right...we don't NEED to buy soon. And yet...

I think you're being too hard on yourself and missing a key factor. These may or may not (depending on who you ask) have been unnecessary purchases but none of these are recurring expenses that  affect your budget going forward. They are merely items in the past.

As to how best to save for a house and what the options are I would say are best (yes it's my opinion but I'll do my best to put myself in your shoes):

1. You say that staying in the HCOL is necessary as you want to be close to family but I'd say to seriously consider this. You say it's important but you also added that you wish they would help with daycare etc etc... So if this is a you want to visit them on weekends is it really that bad to add a 45 min drive or so once a week? You also don't say how much a factor it would be but even on the conservative side usually the same size house is about $100k cheaper which when buying a house is significant.
2. That all being said let's operate on the buying a house in your area because it seems like that's where yall are leaning. First again there is a big difference between 550 and 600k. Don't let it seem deceptive to you. From there you have admitted that up to this point you have prioritized wants over needs well here is your requested face punch: IF YOU WANT A HOUSE FOR YOUR FAMILY YOU NEED TO STOP PRIORITIZING WANTS OVER NEEDS.

3. As far as actually purchasing there are a couple things to consider: You definitely should try and save up 20% but IF you really wanted to buy a house sooner than that you can put a smaller downpayment. The PMI is only in place UNTIL you have paid 20% on the house (Loan to Value) so you can crank away as well at that.
4. If we assume 550k (I think you should aim closer to 500k but not knowing where you are I admit I don't know how feasible it is) then the 20% downpayment is 110k. If you give yourself 18 months (renew the apt one more year) then you would be at $115k cash saved for downpayment. (I added that additional $400 a month from things you admit you don't need).
5. That being said in 6 months you could have $38,400 saved up and to put the payment in perspective you would on a 30 year mortgage (i used bankrate.com which defaulted to 3.1% you would have to verify the rate in your area) be looking at a $2,607 monthly payment. Now obviously you may want to pay faster (some on this forum will argue against that) but in terms of monthly cash flow the expense would be the same as your apartment.
6. On a practical note as well my wife and I are about your age and were looking at the same sort of "rushed decision" about a year and a half ago. A couple other factors to consider is that you can pretty much never "perfectly time" house purchases with the end of your apartment lease. Once you commit to seriously looking you may find a house in 2 weeks or it may take 8 months it just depends but yall will know when you find it. I can say we found ours and knew that the close date would leave us with two months of "double rent" but we love our house and it was well worth it. Don't forget as well if it is on the tail end you can probably always pay for a month or two of "month-to-month" rent (yes it will expensive) but to tide you over till the potential house closing it won't be that bad in the grand scheme of things.

Food for thought :)

Laura33

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Re: Help us prepare for our first house purchase
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2020, 08:44:30 AM »
A few thoughts:

First, sometimes life is hard and you need to give up on some efficiencies to preserve your sanity.  When my kids were little, I had a whole year where I gave myself permission not to go to the gym and to order takeout a couple of times a week, because my brain was overloaded with all of the must-dos.  Was it optimal?  Absolutely not.  But I was making over $200K/yr, so if the choice was taking a big salary hit to cut back and do all that stuff myself vs. throw some extra money at conveniences until I could get over the hump, it was a financial no-brainer. 

Also, sometimes shit happens, and you have to spend money on stuff to make life bearable.  Fans, air purifiers -- sure, it would be awesome if we didn't have global warming and horrible forest management and all those things, but we do, and shit happens, and isn't it great that you're in a financial position to be able to deal with it?*  Yes, be careful that you don't build habits of just throwing money at problems, because there are always problems, and that one-time expense can quickly become part of your normal spending.  But I wouldn't kick myself for dealing with a Wrath of God-level forest fire. 

Now, to the house:  you work at home.  Both of you.  It is eminently reasonable to want to live somewhere that will allow you to do that comfortably.  It will make work more efficient and very likely save your marriage.  That is not an unreasonable want; you have more of a reason to want a larger place than most people who buy a house (myself included).  Do not discount your desires on this.  There's a huge difference between "I want a larger space so I can have a quiet place to work WITH A DOOR" and "I want a larger space so everyone will be impressed with how much money I have" or "we had a kid, so now we need 4,000' and 5 bedrooms."

The key is to figure out how to get you want you need and reasonably want in the most cost-effective manner possible.  What I would challenge is your assumption that "want a third bedroom for an office" means "need to buy a $550K-$600K house."  Look at all your options, even the ones you have a knee-jerk negative reaction to.  Rent a 3 Br apartment or house.  Buy a cheaper house in the neighborhoods you like.  Buy a cheaper house in a different neighborhood nearby.  Look for a place farther out where it's cheaper.  Buy a house with a rental unit to offset the mortgage.  Etc. 

The reason you do this is because it helps you put a name to the things you like and don't like and then prioritize them -- including your desire to FIRE.  Right now, you have a bunch of things you have mentally identified as non-negotiable -- neighborhood, house size, house condition, type of housing, etc.  And all of that adds up to $600K.  And it seems reasonable, because you can afford it on your incomes, and what's the big difference between $500K and $600K anyway?  Answer:  it's about $400/mo. that you could otherwise be investing towards FIRE.  So do the math on how much longer you need to work in order to cover that extra $100K.  At this point, your job is to challenge all of those things that you are assuming are non-negotiable, pay attention to how much more of your life-energy you need to spend to have them, and then see if they really matter as much in that analysis, or if there is another option that can get you 80% of what you want at 20% of the cost.  For ex., I like @tamuaggie2011's point that you are prioritizing being by family, but you're probably really talking about getting together once a week or so, so how much would an extra 30 minutes travel really affect your life, if it allows you to get a great house for a lot less?  Maybe that won't work for one reason or another, but that's the kind of analysis you should be doing of all of your options.  You may end up right back where you are, with a $550K house in the neighborhood you want.  But if you put in the work to figure out what all your options are, you'll at least have a lot more confidence that that is the right choice for you -- and you'll be doing it with the full knowledge of the work-years that that choice will cost.

When you do decide to move ahead, you don't need to wait for a 20% downpayment.  Most first-time buyers don't have anywhere near that.  I'd target 5%, try to roll closing costs into the loan, and then keep aside an extra $2-3K (minimum!) for all the things that are going to be wrong with the house that you need to change.**  Even simple things like painting add up when you need to buy all the gear. 

Finally:  do not cut back on your pretax savings.  A house is fundamentally a lifestyle choice.  Never, ever, pay for a lifestyle choice with your investments for your future.  The house that you can afford is the house that you can save for, buy, and outfit with the money that is left after you put aside your FIRE money.

*AMHIK.  You seriously do not want to know how much money I've had to drop on broken appliances this month, after we had already committed to getting the floors redone and trim finished.  Let's just say it's a good thing we didn't take any big vacations this year.
 
**Our first house was new and had no blinds at all.  Which we did not realize until the day we moved in.  Took $1800 just to get cheap window coverings!

Tigerpine

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Re: Help us prepare for our first house purchase
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2020, 02:51:29 PM »
Just some thoughts based on my experience.

Buying a house, especially in a HCOL area (such as where I also live) is a major commitment.  The main point I'd like to add is to make sure whatever you do, leave enough 'space' in your budget, timeline, etc. so as to keep the longterm stress low.  I've heard of too many marriages falling apart over money, and in my opinion anyway, my marriage is much more important than any house or self-set deadline.  I imagine you and your husband feel the same.

And don't forget that houses cost more than the mortgage payment.  There's taxes, homeowner's insurance, maintenance, etc.  You may find that your utility bills will go up significantly at the house.  When I rented, I didn't have to pay for water/sewer, but now I do, for example.  We were also shocked at the gas bill our first winter.  Needless to say, we had to make adjustments.

Remember, too, that when you own a house, all the repairs are your own responsibility.  If the fridge dies, you can't call the landlord to replace it for you.  If the ceiling popcorn starts to crack and fall, calling the landlord is not an option.  Same with plumbing and everything else.

I don't see any reason to rush.  You can start looking, and if you find the right place, go for it.  But there's nothing wrong with taking your time and renewing your lease for another year, either.

zeli2033

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Re: Help us prepare for our first house purchase
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2020, 11:13:35 PM »
Forum folks strike again with stellar input and offering some much-needed perspective. Thank you all for taking the time to write out such useful and comprehensive feedback.

On Being Close to Family
- @tamuaggie2011 and @Laura33 you bring up good points around still reaping the benefits of being near family even if we're further out from them. Even though they aren't able to watch our kid during the day, we do see them up to a couple times per week. It would be a change (they're a 10 minute walk away. That has been awesome to take advantage of since we moved here from out of state). Over time though, this might be less novel so definitely food for thought.

2. That all being said let's operate on the buying a house in your area because it seems like that's where yall are leaning. First again there is a big difference between 550 and 600k. Don't let it seem deceptive to you. From there you have admitted that up to this point you have prioritized wants over needs well here is your requested face punch: IF YOU WANT A HOUSE FOR YOUR FAMILY YOU NEED TO STOP PRIORITIZING WANTS OVER NEEDS.

I appreciate this facepunch! I'll slide that in my back pocket :)

Your entire response makes excellent points. Ultimately we have more options than I have really considered. The more I think/read/etc. about it, the more certain I feel that a larger downpayment would be great but waiting until we have 20% seems like a lot of cash not to have in the market. I'll have to consider how we split the difference if we were to keep stashing cash beyond the 5-10% down payment mark.

It is also quite silly to think we'd be able to make a housing purchase line up exactly when our lease ends. I'll have to make sure we don't let the hard line of 6 months or 18 months (signing on for another year lease) make our decision.

The key is to figure out how to get you want you need and reasonably want in the most cost-effective manner possible.  What I would challenge is your assumption that "want a third bedroom for an office" means "need to buy a $550K-$600K house."  Look at all your options, even the ones you have a knee-jerk negative reaction to.  Rent a 3 Br apartment or house.  Buy a cheaper house in the neighborhoods you like.  Buy a cheaper house in a different neighborhood nearby.  Look for a place farther out where it's cheaper.  Buy a house with a rental unit to offset the mortgage.  Etc. 

The reason you do this is because it helps you put a name to the things you like and don't like and then prioritize them -- including your desire to FIRE.  Right now, you have a bunch of things you have mentally identified as non-negotiable -- neighborhood, house size, house condition, type of housing, etc.  And all of that adds up to $600K.  And it seems reasonable, because you can afford it on your incomes, and what's the big difference between $500K and $600K anyway?  Answer:  it's about $400/mo. that you could otherwise be investing towards FIRE.  So do the math on how much longer you need to work in order to cover that extra $100K.  At this point, your job is to challenge all of those things that you are assuming are non-negotiable, pay attention to how much more of your life-energy you need to spend to have them, and then see if they really matter as much in that analysis, or if there is another option that can get you 80% of what you want at 20% of the cost.  For ex., I like @tamuaggie2011's point that you are prioritizing being by family, but you're probably really talking about getting together once a week or so, so how much would an extra 30 minutes travel really affect your life, if it allows you to get a great house for a lot less?  Maybe that won't work for one reason or another, but that's the kind of analysis you should be doing of all of your options.  You may end up right back where you are, with a $550K house in the neighborhood you want.  But if you put in the work to figure out what all your options are, you'll at least have a lot more confidence that that is the right choice for you -- and you'll be doing it with the full knowledge of the work-years that that choice will cost.
The way you've laid this out is so incredibly helpful. Specifically around getting more clarity on how our housing options impact our current timelines/goals for FIRE and what we're truly prioritizing. The lazy part of my brain wants to simply justify buying whatever house we want where we want and when we want because ultimately we can afford it, we won't be buying a million dollar house and [insert other excuses here]. But you're right, challenging these assumptions around non-negotiables and doing the heavier think work to fully understand the implications of our decision is crucial. Thank you for this!

Finally:  do not cut back on your pretax savings.  A house is fundamentally a lifestyle choice.  Never, ever, pay for a lifestyle choice with your investments for your future.  The house that you can afford is the house that you can save for, buy, and outfit with the money that is left after you put aside your FIRE money.
This is EXACTLY what I said! I'm telling him, Laura33 said this is heresy stop coming at me with that nonsense. But in all seriousness, thank you that is what my gut was telling me and the great points you made around analysis above help really help clarify this. 

@Tigerpine your point about minimizing longterm stress when making this decision is a fantastic reminder. What we should probably plan for is living on one income, the lowest of the two salaries to give ourselves more wiggle room. I've been trying to wrap my head around potential monthly payments using basic calculators that include estimates for taxes, PMI, etc. but I haven't been trying to keep this in line with the lower income to provide as much cushion as possible. And none of that really accounts for things I won't really know until we live where we land and how that impacts utilities, etc.

zeli2033

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Re: Help us prepare for our first house purchase
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2020, 10:36:10 PM »
Thanks for the input, @Finances_With_Purpose. Great quote. I've actually been contemplating the appeal of a smaller house and building/converting a separate space to an office for one of us - your "cottage" sounds awesome.

We've given a lot of thought to what y'all have shared and are working on cooling our jets and extinguishing the FOMO. Ultimately we know the right move is to go back to the frugal(ish) basics a la making sure our future monthly expenses can be comfortably taken care of on the lowest salary in the household - $100k. By sticking firm to those guidelines, we can either consider less "optimal" options (less updated house, further out, etc.) or wait until we've saved up enough of a down payment to get a lower monthly payment that still fits within our budget. We definitely will not be foregoing our current savings in tax-advantaged spaces to save more cash quickly. So making a normal, sound financial decision instead of a hasty, silly one...

Thanks everyone for the honest and helpful feedback.


englishteacheralex

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Re: Help us prepare for our first house purchase
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2020, 11:58:00 PM »
Daaaamn. Such fun writing! We've been mulling over our second house purchase for about a year now, and we've decided to just sit tight. We're in a 850' condo that we bought for $360k five years ago. We have two little kids, a WFH parent and a commuting parent. The Honolulu market=$750k+ for a SFH and we just can't justify it. And we make way less money than you guys (combined income ~$170k/year), which makes me a little queasy that we were even thinking about making the move.

One thing I was thinking about was maybe renting some office space for the WFH parent? He's the one who was really wanting to move, back when we were trying to do to jobs from home with two little kids at home.

The other thing you might consider is the good ol' condo buy. Cheaper!

windytrail

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Re: Help us prepare for our first house purchase
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2020, 03:29:30 PM »
Thank you,  @zeli2033, for the great case study. I do not have any experience with home purchasing and the others have given valuable advice there. However, as a renter in the Bay Area, I wanted to share how my partner and I have dealt with the extreme weather this year without spending too much money. That said, our circumstances are not entirely comparable to yours because we do not have children.

Over the last several months, it's been a mix of one-time purchases we'd been thinking about, random stuff we didn't necessarily need, and getting takeout delivered a few times per month. A sampling:

- We don't have AC since we live somewhere with historically pretty mild summers. Enter terrible heat waves and us outfitting ourselves with a bunch of fans and a swamp cooler: ~$400.
- Why don't I have an Instantpot?! I've wanted one for awhile, it's way too hot to cook meals otherwise so I'm buying one. $100 (Excellent purchase).
- Ahhh the west coast is on fire! We need air purifiers. We bought some online as cheap as we could find them ($400) but surprise they were actually sold out so we panic bought some pricey Dyson ones as soon as a few were back in stock. $900. We did get refunds for the sold out ones but this one still hurts. However our lungs no longer do so I'll take it.
- Even if I vacuum and mop every other day there is still somehow ash all over our house. Plus HAHA we work full time and have a toddler. I'm not cleaning this damn house every other day. F it, I'm investing in a roomba. $250 (100% would do again.)

We also lack air conditioning and live on the top story of a third floor apartment building which is nearly 100 years old. During the heat waves it often gets 90+ degrees (F) inside our unit. Both of us currently WFH full time. We tried to deal with it for a while --embracing the Mustachian principles of hedonic adaptation-- then finally decided we needed a fan to blow air around on the hottest days. First I checked the shared closet in the hallway outside our unit and found a plastic tower fan that another tenant had left. That worked for 1-2 weeks then broke. Then we checked the thrift stores in the area, but they were all sold out. Not much on Craigslist due to high demand. Finally we found a 12" metal fan from the local hardware store that was around $30. This has worked pretty well for us, not perfect but gets the job done.

We also purchased an instant pot this year, but got it secondhand from the Mercari app (like Ebay but easier to navigate on your phone) for about $30. Works great. We got our Shark stick vacuum cleaner refurbished for about $125, whereas the new version of that model was 2-3x as much. For the smokey days we are using a small Levoit air purifier that was given to us by a friend who moved to the East Coast, but new it is only $100. We also purchased a carbon filter ($25) that fits in a window like a screen, but I wouldn't recommend this unless paired with a small fan to suck in the outside air. Our small living area (~570sq ft) means there is less air to filter and blow around. On days with good air, we shut the blinds to the sunlight to prevent radiation from entering, while opening windows at night to let cool air in. Place the fan by the window to blow in cool air for faster relief.

Another thing that helps is going outside when it's really hot inside. We live near a university that has WiFi on campus and it really helps to spend 1-2 hours sitting at a table there working, fresh air and nature all around you. If you aren't able to bring your work with you then it is still nice to take a break during the hottest hours (for us 4-6pm) in the shade outside.

In sum, our principles for avoiding spending too much money on retail products are: (1) practice living without and delay the purchase, (2) try to get things free, (3) shop the secondhand stores, craigslist/mercari/ebay, and refurbished products, and (4) only after exhausting these do you purchase a brand new, plastic-wrapped, factory-shiny product.