29y/o rethinking career path - or do I "stay the course"? Input on the #s

[aajack]

Hello Mustacians,

I have been considering a lot of wildly different options lately, and would love to bounce some ideas off of other folks - especially if you have any background in CS which seems to be a lot of folks on here!

Quick background:

I am 29, have a masters in geology, and have been unemployed for about 8 months. Since getting my masters I spent a few years working in oil and gas, and a few teaching. I am starting to lose faith in my geology career path, though, since there are just so few jobs in this field. I have lately been really thinking about going back for Computer Science as it seems there are more jobs out there than you can shake a stick at. The grass may be greener on the other side, but in every city I've looked at, there have been like 50 CS jobs for every 1 geology job. I also like the idea that after a few years experience in CS you could likely start to work remote.

The path I have been thinking about taking is through the University of Colorado's new CS program that is all online. It would take me 1 year, full time, for a B.S. in Comp Science, and run about 28k. This obviously is a lot of money, but would also pay itself off within the first year of employment after finishing the degree. I am feeling really tempted towards trying this option.

Any CS folks out there with any thoughts? I'm almost 30 which feels really old to completely restart a career...

My other thought on how to handle my inability to find meaningful work in geology right now is this: basically to just ride it out, not touch my savings, make enough money from BS jobs to cover current living expenses, and wait until my savings have grown big enough to hit FI on their own.

Some numbers for this hair-brained idea:

My net worth right now including retirement accounts is ~225k (the oil and gas years were quite lucrative). My monthly expenses are around 1200, which includes paying down my mortgage (I have roommates which help with this cost). When my mortgage is paid off in 13 years, that will add around 200k to my networth. If I were to just leave my 225k nest egg alone, in 13 years (sort of arbitrarily chosen as that's when the mortgage will be paid off) assuming 7% market returns, that would put me at 542k, or 742k including the house. I think my bare minimum FI number is about 500k. So, from a forecasting perspective, I am theoretically fine to just leave everything alone and still hit FI comfortably in 13 years.

Part of me likes this idea because I am not rushing into a completely new field and restarting at 30. On the other hand, 13 years seems like a long time to go where the plan is making barely enough to sustain current costs. On a more psychological level, I think I am also having a hard time deciding how much the CS path is appealing just because it feels like I am doing something more productive with my life, whether or not that's really the path to greatest happiness...


OK I know that's kind of a lot! I have been having a quarter life crisis I think:) Any insights or similar experiences would be awesome to hear about, but I also think just typing this out was helpful.... Thank you all! 

[MrThatsDifferent]

Not sure if this helps, but have looked for jobs in Australia? There was a mining boom, it’s died but I’ve heard that parts are coming back. Or maybe somewhere else globally?

The other thing, there is so much online, do you really need a degree in CS? Can you self direct your learning, attend some boot camps and then work on networking? You’re not hurting financially and you have a base. Your expenses seem reasonable. I wouldn’t rush adding more costs. You’re quite young and have plenty of time still, work on being creative and taking some risks and giving yourself some adventures. Or even, take 6-12 months and travel around and be inspired by new people and experiences. Who knows what you might be thinking after a year of doing that?

[FreeBear]

Why did you get out of oil/gas?? Seems like you made serious $$ there.  Wish I had your 'stache when I was only 30 years old.

What about moving out of state or even going expat overseas in oil and gas to make some big $$ while young?  Did you hate oil/gas or are having trouble getting or keeping a job in that field?

[MustacheAnxiety]

Switching career paths:  I wouldn't view being 29 as a major impediment to switching careers.  I went to grad school with a guy on his third major career switch in his 40s and he was super happy to get to try something new.  An undergrad and a masters seems like a lot to waste, but geology generated good income for some years and has let you get a cushion/retirement fund. My brother-in-law switched from banking to computer programming (more architecture than actual programming) about 8 years ago in his mid-thirties and he is thriving now.  I wish I could tell you more but it was a mix of self-teaching/on the job training.

Computer Science: I took a couple CS classes in undergrad and it wasn't my thing.  To me it seems like a little bit of interesting problem solving work and a lot of very detail oriented coding to make your program work perfectly.  But there are tons of people who find the work very engaging.  28K and 1 year seems like a big risk if you don't know if you will like the work or be good at it. (If you are a smart math and science person, a good logical problem solver, and very detail oriented; you will probably be a good programmer.) I would definitely look into some self teaching programs before enrolling in school.  It will help you see if you like the work and will be helpful once you start school.  If you have never done any programming work, I suspect you will be at a big disadvantage compared to many other students when you start the program.  Also make sure you look into how many students get real jobs in the field that pay well after graduation.

[Concojones]

Fellow unemployed oil & gas professional here (engineer).

A lot of people change careers in their late 20s. At 29 I started a degree and got into oil & gas, which for the next 6 years I considered a great decision that I wish I'd taken earlier. Being stuck in limbo is demotivating, making progress toward some worthwhile goal feels great. Life is short and the next 13 years of your life will fly by. Spend them doing something that excites you.

P.S. You mentioned CS. 'Data science' is a discipline in oil & gas that is new & hot (though there are already a fair number of unemployed/aspiring oil & gas folks moving in that direction).

[nereo]

OP - do you actually like CS?  Have you taken any courses and find you enjoy it and have some proficiency?

29 is not too late for a career change - but I'd only do it if its a job you'd actually enjoy (or at least not hate) doing.

[blingwrx]

I have a CS degree and I feel like it's not absolutely necessary for many jobs. I have worked with a lot of people who don't have a computer specific degree, most of them were self taught. The hard part is getting your foot in the door. This may mean taking some entry level or internship jobs to start. Better if you can network and find a friend who can hook you up with an interview. When you don't have prior experience in the field it's good to have a portfolio to show off some programs you built to potential employers. Once your foot is in the door and you have that initial experience you'll be set to move on up and make a lot more money.

A lot of people are thinking the same thing as you jump into the field that's plentiful with high paying jobs, but you need to make sure it's for you before you invest time and money into it. Programming isn't for everyone and not everyone can be great at it. I remember in college the class sizes kept shrinking as we got higher up in the levels. Intro to CS was a full lecture hall, then people started dropping like flies once we got to the 200 level courses and the class size reduced to 1/3. I'd advise you do some self learning through some free online tutorials or learning sites or buy a book and follow it first. Try creating a few simple programs and see if it's your thing. Then if you like it, there's may options you can try a bootcamp, or commit to 1 yr for the degree. Some people can land a job with the bootcamp experience some can't, of course the degree is way better but also a lot more time and money to commit.

[scatterplot]

I went the bootcamp route when I was 26 and am now a software engineer at 28 making just over $100k. Before my highest salary year was $32k. I have a liberal arts degree but did some coding as a kid.

I’m curious why CS degree? Are you interested in the computer science field, or do you want a software developer job?

Bottom line: You have to forget about the money right now and make sure you really, really like it. It’s not for everyone and $28k is a high price to figure that out when it’s pretty easy to figure out for free. But if you spend some time self-teaching and find it is for you, and you’re flexible, then I’d say go for it.. There are a bajillion free online resources.  Harvard’s CS50 course and Free Code Camp are ones I liked. If you stick with ‘em and finish projects for more than a couple months, you’re golden.

I’ve heard really good things about Launch School as a high quality education about the same timeline as the program you’re thinking, and much cheaper. I did a cheap and local boot camp and benefitted a lot from the in-person aspect and also got my job from networking there.

The downside of boot camps is the saturation of graduates at the moment. I’ve heard the wild variation of quality of education has made employers skeptical of bootcamp grads for junior positions but that is 100% anecdotal and I’m not in a big city so YMMV. If you do projects on your own it will set you apart from many grads.

I know it will be tempting, but I’d recommend against outlining some year long plan about what courses you are going to do or finding one of those mega “100 courses/books/websites every new computer scientist needs to know complete education” lists and getting all excited and dreaming of exactly the life you’ll have when you just put in the thousands of hours it’d take to finish the list. 

Save all that time and take action. Pick one thing, and only one. Stick with it to completion and you’re  farther along than 95%. Beware the lull in the middle of the project when you don’t have the enthusiasm of either the beginning or the end of the project. Punch that lull in the face! And lower your goal if it means you will have a finished product. 

Now that I have two years of job experience I get recruiter emails a couple times a week for remote positions and Amazon alike, plus I LOVE my job, so I still think it’s worth the fight.

Feel free to PM me if you’d like to chat more.

[ChpBstrd]

I started my 3rd career at 34, so it's no biggie.

$28k and a one year committment to get a B.S. in a high paying field from an actual university is a screaming bargain. Not all bargains should be bought, but I'm saying cost and time are non-issues. Plus you have the savings and frugality to plow through school.

As mentioned above, you need to figure out if you like / can tolerate doing the work. Spending a month doing hardcore freecodecamp.com would be the quick and free way to resolve this question.

Fossil fuels seem to go boom and bust in cycles that last a decade or more and change rapidly. With that C.S. degree plus a geology masters you might find yourself in that industry again the next time prices spike, building software to exploit the geology. As a niche cross-specialist, you could suddenly find yourself competitive for very high earning jobs (e.g. $200k). FI would get much closer, very quickly.

A lot would have to go exactly right for that exact scenario to happen, but the lotto ticket is worth something. Even if such a boom never happens within your timeframe, I can see other places where your rare combo of education might be worth more than any one individual part.

[epps]

https://www.omscs.gatech.edu

If you are set on the CS route, check out the GA Tech online masters program. All-in for about 7.5K for a top five program and is pay-as-you-go. The degree on the other side is the same as the resident program. Might be an option if you want to avoid the downside if you find CS isn't what you really wanted. It takes a minimum of two years to finish the program though, versus one for the program you mentioned. You would need to do some prep work ahead of time to make sure you get in and to make sure you have the pre-reqs.

[bryan995]

https://www.omscs.gatech.edu

If you are set on the CS route, check out the GA Tech online masters program. All-in for about 7.5K for a top five program and is pay-as-you-go. The degree on the other side is the same as the resident program. Might be an option if you want to avoid the downside if you find CS isn't what you really wanted. It takes a minimum of two years to finish the program though, versus one for the program you mentioned. You would need to do some prep work ahead of time to make sure you get in and to make sure you have the pre-reqs.

Ha - came here to post the same thing.
https://www.omscs.gatech.edu/program-info/specializations

Try some free classes / tutorials / bootcamps to see if you enjoy CS.  If you do, then yes, there are tons of jobs and pay is very good.  Good luck.

[OurFirstFire]

Agree with the recommendations to consider alternatives to jumping into a BS.  I switched from being a drilling engineer to software engineer at age 35, but it was after a lifetime of coding, and two fairly intense years of catching up to the latest web development tech by building real things on evenings, mornings, and weekends.  So before committing time and money, think of something you want to build and do it, consuming the online tutorials and such that you need along the way.  Software isn't for everyone, both for interest and talent... but the good thing is it's easy to find out.  If you can't use the wealth of information and tools out there to build something from a minimal background then I would question coding as a career path.

When you know it's for you, you'll have a better idea whether a BS or MS or boot camp or just marketing yourself on your new portfolio of proven capability is the right way forward.

[i_have_so_much_to_learn]

If you're unemployed for this long, you might as well look into a field that pays more. CS is definitely one that does. But you don't have to get a paid degree. Have you tried online courses such as udacity, or coursera? There's lots of free stuff. Also leetcode - i know personally of people that were hired from there.

You could also go the formal degree route - don't fear of starting a new career at any age. You got this!

[2Cent]

I would recommend not taking a generic CS degree, but a more focused Bootcamp or Course in cloud development. Cloud because it's almost guaranteed to give a well paying job and is naturally suited for remote working. And read a few books about coding principles. I recommend Clean Code. Also read https://www.codingdojo.com/blog/ which is a site specifically for people like you looking at coding as a new carreer.

[nereo]

Pity the OP never came back to this thread (even after a month) - some insightful comments have been made by multiple posters.

[aajack]

Nereo - I know! I lurked and read responses for a few days while waiting to post back up, and just now logged in to post an update. I can't believe how many awesome responses this got!

So, first off, thank all of you so much for the input! Seriously - it's clear there is a lot of wisdom in these comments. I've read and reread each one to make sure I've soaked up all the insight and ideas... I am really grateful to all of you for sharing your insights. Thank you all for taking the time to post.

I wanted to put a quick update to say I decided to dip my toe into the waters and see how it goes. I've been taking "Intro to programming" from my local community college, and it's going great! I really have been enjoying it. I'm actually a bit disappointed with how easy it's been (that's a comment on how low the bar gets set for community college students - not my abilities), but it's nevertheless been informative. I've also been going through Harvard's CS50 course that scatterplot mentioned, as well as some free Python material (https://www.py4e.com/).

I'm still on the fence about pursuing the official BS program, but it seems the consensus on here is to prioritize free self-study. I've had a number of other friends suggest that as well. I also think, at least so far, that just generic coding/software development sounds the most interesting (I don't want to make hardware or anything)... so I'm not even sure most of the courses in the CU program would even prepare me all that well for being a good programmer.

I loved hearing some of the success stories from folks who've started in this industry either at a "non-traditional" age or without the official degree. I've actually been finding that refreshing about this field...  while I've seen some jobs that require a degree, it seems like there are a lot of companies out there that care more about what you know than what your degree (or lack thereof) says. That's awesome.

ChpBstrd - thanks for your comment about maybe being able to connect the geo stuff somehow. I've been thinking about that... I don't have a great plan at the moment for how it will come together, but I hope it might (and was glad to see someone else didn't think it was entirely crazy!)

Anyway... thank you all again for sharing your thoughts with me. It's so cool to have a resource like this to get ideas from educated, intelligent, frugal people! I can't thank you all enough:)

[AccidentialMustache]

There's things you'll likely get from a proper CS education that you are unlikely to get from self-study or boot camps. Algorithmic complexity, a deeper understanding of what's happening in a processor and what makes some code fast and some code slow (the cache hierarchy, both data and instruction, pipeline stalls, branch misprediction, etc.

This is all stuff you *can* learn on your own, but if you're just "learning to program" its easy to have it glossed over.

Does it matter in day to day coding? No. Until it does and your app is down and someone is screaming about losing millions of dollars.

Background: BS/MS CS -> ops -> devops -> return to development -> now

[aajack]

AccidentialMustache -

Fair enough. Yeah I definitely get that there's foundational stuff I would likely miss out on. It's really hard knowing what you need to know, though.... I mean, I could make a long list of stuff I had to learn in undergrad for geology that I have used zero times since graduating, either in grad school, working for a major oil company, or teaching. But, still, I definitely get what you're saying. That argument is one of the main things keeping me on the fence about it...

[2Cent]

No need to do the foundational stuff. You can pick that up when you know which field you'll be working in. Whatever you learn now will most likely be outdated by the time you need it. Better to learn the foundations by reading specific guides for things like optimisation of the type of application you're working on when you start working. Just make a habbit of reading one guide or article a day instead of say some news website or facebook. Also, the people who actually study these things and never get to use them are always very happy to explain them to someone.