Author Topic: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances  (Read 4506 times)

yuppiemustache

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24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« on: June 09, 2018, 08:35:52 PM »
Hi fellow Mustachians!

Please help evaluate my current financial position and share any insights/advice you may have on how I can further improve!

A little bit about Me
---
- Graduated from college 2 years ago and have been living at home with the parents in a low COL area.
- Not a huge spender (spend most of my money eating out w/ friends and occasionally splurging on nice clothes/gifts)
- Aspire to be FI sooner rather than later
- Currently make ~75k year
- Currently spend ~10-11k per year for bills, food/gas, and discretionary spending. (*no rent/utilities at the moment since living with parents)
- No debt
- Projected savings rate: 68% (Cash saved + 401k (incl. 5% employer match), Roth IRA, & HSA contributions / Total Gross Compensation)
- Don't plan/want to go to business school in the future, if I can progress w/o it.

Assets / Allocation
---
Cash (savings) - 24k / 100% cash
401(k) - 27k / VGINT (100%)
Roth IRA - $18.7k / VTI (6.9k), VXUS ($2.7k), rest in cash (~9k)
HSA - $2.1k / Cash (1k), ISHARES S&P 500 INDEX CL K (1.1k)
Crypto-investment: 2k / ETH (100%)

Total: $73.8k

Available 401k Investment Options
---

EQUITY/STOCK
BLACKROCK EQUITY DIVIDEND CF   
BLACKROCK US FDMTL LRG CL T   
DODGE & COX STOCK FUND   
FIAM SMALL MID CAP CORE II FD   
MFS INTERNATIONAL GROWTH   
NF GLOBAL SUSTAINABILITY INDEX
QS U.S. SM CAP EQUITY CIF   
STATE STREET REAL ASSET C   
T ROWE INST LARGE-CAP GROWTH
TEMPLETON INTL EQUITY CIT   
VANGUARD INSTL 500 INDEX TRUST
VANGUARD INSTL EXTENDED MKT
VANGUARD INSTL TTL INTL STOCK
BAC COM STK FUND   Core   BACSF

BOND/FIXED INCOME
PIMCO TOTAL RETURN PORT. INSTL   
VANGUARD INFLATION-PROTECTED   
VANGUARD INSTL TTL BD MKT IND   
WESTERN ASSET CORE BOND CL IS   
MONEY MARKET/STABLE VALUE
STABLE VALUE FUND   

ALLOCATION FUNDS
BLACKROCK GLOBAL ALLOC I   
LIFEPATH INDEX 2020 FUND O   
LIFEPATH INDEX 2025 FUND O   
LIFEPATH INDEX 2030 FUND O   
LIFEPATH INDEX 2035 FUND O   
LIFEPATH INDEX 2040 FUND O   
LIFEPATH INDEX 2045 FUND O   
LIFEPATH INDEX 2050 FUND O   
LIFEPATH INDEX 2055 FUND O   
LIFEPATH INDEX 2060 FUND O   
LIFEPATH INDEX RETIREMENT FD O   
PIMCO ALL ASSET FUND   

I'm trying to evaluate how much more cash to move towards investments as I think I have too much in cash for my situation right now (but am a bit concerned about dumping my current cash in my Roth IRA in the market all at once given where the market's at right now..) I predict that I will move out within the next 1-2 years (at least, I hope) and will incur additional rent/utilities/related expenses and need to take that into account with regards to keeping an emergency fund (6 mos.) I think I would throw the remainder cash into more equities (My asset allocation is 100% equities right as I believe I have the time horizon and ability to task risk to weather any storms), or maybe use some of the cash for leveraged real estate investments. Not sure.

Please let me know if I left any important details out!

MDM

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2018, 08:43:28 PM »
yuppiemustache, welcome to the forum.  Seems you are doing just fine.

Consider Investment Order and http://awealthofcommonsense.com/2014/02/worlds-worst-market-timer/ as they apply to your situation.  Good luck!

yuppiemustache

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2018, 08:47:20 PM »
Thank you for your suggestions!

fell-like-rain

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2018, 08:58:29 PM »
Something to think about might be diversifying your 401(k) with bonds (vanguard total bond would be good), international equities, and mid/small cap (the 'extended market' vanguard fund). My allocation (similar age/life situation) is something like 10% bonds, 30% intl, 15% small/mid cap, 45% large cap, just as an example. Diversifying (in general) tends to improve returns while reducing volatility.

You probably do have too much in cash. As MDM's link notes, timing the market is usually not a great idea. People have been saying the market is overvalued and predicting a crash for several years now, and anyone who listened in 2014 and cashed out is kicking themselves pretty hard right now. Definitely invest the Roth money in something, and consider opening up a taxable account for (some) of your cash savings. The likelihood you'll need 2.5 years of e-fund is hella low- even if you move out and expenses double, you've still got a more-than-healthy cushion.

Speaking of expenses, do you have a detailed budget breakdown? Living with folks, spending 11k a year seems a little high. Again, I'm in a fairly similar life situation to you (minus the living at home), and my non-housing spend is something like 6.5k. So there may be places you could make some cuts to a. save money now, and b. make the transition easier when you have to start paying rent.

Overall, seems like you're doing quite well, though.

yuppiemustache

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2018, 09:45:18 PM »
Here's a breakdown:

Bills
Gym membership: $120/yr ($10/mo.)
Cell phone: $180/yr ($15/mo.)
Car Insurance: $2.3k/yr (~$200/mo.) - I stupidly got a DUI 2 years ago so I estimated that my premiums would at least double.. (and I am under my dad's plan), but strangely actually my rates still haven't risen yet.. (actually still paying about $96/mo. or ~$1,200/yr)
Life insurance: $330/yr
Spotify: $120/yr ($10/mo.)

Food/Groceries: ~$2.9k/yr. (I budget for $60/wk or $240/mo.; I don't always end up eating that much)
Fuel: $3.6k/yr. ($300/mo.) - I probably actually spend materially less than what's budgeted here, but I tried to be conservative since I drive alot for work (long commute) and my SUV doesn't get great mpg :/

Total: ~$9.6k (so my OP is wrong; my bad)



libertarian4321

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2018, 10:12:10 PM »
You seem to be doing pretty well.  DCA some of that cash into a good low cost index fund if you don't think you will need it anytime soon.

The only thing I'd question is:

Crypto-investment: 2k / ETH (100%)

20 years from now, you'll probably wish you'd put that money into a total market index fund.

Yes, I'm over 30.  So I don't invest in any of the 8,349 available "cryptos."  Maybe I'm wrong and all of you are going to become crypto billionaires, but I doubt it.  Just like with other investing manias, a few will get rich, and the vast majority will be left holding a bag of worthless or nearly worthless "investments."
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 10:18:29 PM by libertarian4321 »

yuppiemustache

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2018, 10:58:31 PM »
libertarian,

I don't need the cash that's in my Roth IRA anytime soon. Anything that's currently in my Roth or 401k I don't plan on touching until retirement. The cash that's in my savings account (over and above what I need for my emergency fund/other short term goals) I'm planning on either i) investing it into equities as well or ii) use for real estate investing.

The crypto "investment" was a one-time high risk bet I admit. Initially invested 4k and then it sharply went down in value soon after. It was money I rationaled I could afford to lose/make a risky investment. Now, I just plan to hold it at least until it returns to my initial 4k.

MDM

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2018, 11:32:29 PM »
Crypto-investment: 2k / ETH (100%)
The crypto "investment" was a one-time high risk bet I admit. Initially invested 4k and then it sharply went down in value soon after. It was money I rationaled I could afford to lose/make a risky investment. Now, I just plan to hold it at least until it returns to my initial 4k.
By the above it seems you expect the crypto to double from where it is now.  If so, perhaps you should sell all those boring index funds that aren't likely to double any time soon, and put everything into crypto.

Or you could count the $2K as relatively cheap tuition for the applied finance course, and perhaps get an 'A' by selling the crypto and buying the boring index funds.

You have to know when to hold 'em, and know when to fold 'em....

2Birds1Stone

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2018, 05:24:14 AM »
Dump the life insurance, you're 24 with no dependents....

boarder42

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2018, 05:55:16 AM »
You have way too much cash sidelined unless you're saving for a down payment. Nothing in your tax advantaged accounts should be cash at your age. You don't need to hold bonds either youre in a growth phase holding bonds helps ride out the bumps in down markets. Your focus this early should be max growth. I'd set up my AA either as total us stock market index or some mix of small caps large caps and int.  This young if you can live with small cap volatility. You'll likely come out ahead with a larger chunk of those instead of large caps. Ditch the life insurance. I don't really care about your crypto I think it's small enough you won't care in th future I just wouldn't increase my holdings there.

You said 68% savings rate but based on your numbers you're actually at an 87% rate.

fell-like-rain

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2018, 07:29:01 AM »
Here's a breakdown:

Bills
Gym membership: $120/yr ($10/mo.)
Cell phone: $180/yr ($15/mo.)
Car Insurance: $2.3k/yr (~$200/mo.) - I stupidly got a DUI 2 years ago so I estimated that my premiums would at least double.. (and I am under my dad's plan), but strangely actually my rates still haven't risen yet.. (actually still paying about $96/mo. or ~$1,200/yr)
Life insurance: $330/yr
Spotify: $120/yr ($10/mo.)

Food/Groceries: ~$2.9k/yr. (I budget for $60/wk or $240/mo.; I don't always end up eating that much)
Fuel: $3.6k/yr. ($300/mo.) - I probably actually spend materially less than what's budgeted here, but I tried to be conservative since I drive alot for work (long commute) and my SUV doesn't get great mpg :/

Total: ~$9.6k (so my OP is wrong; my bad)

Okay, what about car maintenance, clothes, personal purchases, travel, eating/drinking out, gifts, entertainment, etc.? Some of those may be $0 but I doubt all are.

I agree with the above poster that life insurance is pointless for you.

ysette9

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2018, 12:56:42 PM »
Check out the entry in the Bogleheads investment forum on common investment mistakes, specifically Sunk Cost Fallacy. That is the trap you are in with the crypto money. As MMM has said, if you wouldn’t buy it today for that price then you need to sell it. That money is just a big opportunity cost that isn’t working for you by not being invested in something good for the long term.

I agree with others that trying to market time is a losing game (“I think the market valuation is high”). That said, what about diversifying into a total international stock fund? With that you could get some beneficial diversification and have the mental feel-good of not putting all of your cash into the “over-valued” US market. Note: I totally disagree that we can know it is over-valued, and even if it is, it still likely is a better net over the next 20-50 years than anything else you could easily invest in at this point.

boarder42

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2018, 05:03:24 PM »
Check out the entry in the Bogleheads investment forum on common investment mistakes, specifically Sunk Cost Fallacy. That is the trap you are in with the crypto money. As MMM has said, if you wouldn’t buy it today for that price then you need to sell it. That money is just a big opportunity cost that isn’t working for you by not being invested in something good for the long term.

I agree with others that trying to market time is a losing game (“I think the market valuation is high”). That said, what about diversifying into a total international stock fund? With that you could get some beneficial diversification and have the mental feel-good of not putting all of your cash into the “over-valued” US market. Note: I totally disagree that we can know it is over-valued, and even if it is, it still likely is a better net over the next 20-50 years than anything else you could easily invest in at this point.

Harping on the crypto doesn't make a lot of sense here it's such a small amount of money. People blow 2k on much less

civil4life

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2018, 06:52:02 PM »
Before I read through all the comments my first thought was dump the health insurance.  Insurance is really only necessary if someone is dependent on your income after your death and you have not built a huge stache. 

You can definitely make improvements in the food and gas category.  If you are driving a ton of miles may want to consider looking into a more fuel efficient vehicle.

It sounds like you are savings is great.  I am assuming you want to move out of your parents place at some point.  It does not seem like you are tracking your actual spending.  I would suggest tracking your spending to get a better handle on your budget.  You need to know what you are spending to determine what your stache needs to be.

yuppiemustache

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2018, 06:57:59 PM »
@fell-like-rain

With regards to car maintenance, I sort of capture that under the amount of money I save every month into a online high yield savings acct (~$1.1k); so I don't have a separate line item on my budget for "car maintenance" but if I ever have a major repair or standard maintenance, it would come out of those savings. Travel, as well, would come from these savings (I put some amount of those monthly savings towards a 'vacation fund')

For clothes, personal purchases, eating/drinking out, gifts, and entertainment, I have ~$340 a month leftover that I can use for guilt-free spending that goes towards those buckets, if that makes sense.

@2Birds1Stone

So the life insurance is a 30-yr term life insurance that my dad actually bought for me when I was a bit younger (late teens). I think he did that because he said he wanted to lock in a lower rate now vs. getting it later when I was older and it being more expensive? I just decided to take over the annual payment instead of him paying it.

It seems the consensus here is that I should sell my remaining position (~$2k) in the crypto and move back into equities so it can start earning me some yield again.





yuppiemustache

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2018, 07:06:43 PM »
@civil4life

By 'stache' are you referring to what I'll need in retirement? What my actual annual expenses are (based on my actual spending habits?)

I know I can definitely make some improvements in food.. I just sometimes get lazy and decide to eat out instead and don't think too much about it since I rationalize that I'm already saving a healthy amount.. with regards to getting a different/more gas efficient vehicle, the car I currently drive is my dad's and he's completely fine with letting me use it until the wheels fall off someday. Would it not make sense to just do that instead of spending thousands on another car just to save a bit on fuel costs? Also, I have to consider that when I move out my commute will probably be shorter than it is currently, or consider even the possibility that I may move to somewhere else for a new job that has public transport where I won't need a car.

With regards to spending though, I do have the Mint app which has been useful. I'll admit that I haven't been tracking the individual categories of food, gas, etc. as closely as I probably should. My budget in excel has projected net worths by certain dates (the dates I get paid) and I usually just check to see if my net worth in Mint is materially off from where my budget projects it to be. So that's kind of been my 'proxy' if you will, but I know there's definitely value is tracking the actual amount you spend on each category.




boarder42

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2018, 06:00:53 AM »
the term insruance still isnt worth it regardless of the rate you locked in you dont need life insurance.  and you likely never will since you're saving so young.  we're about to have our first kid and didnt find this blog til we were 27 we're 31 now.  we dont plan to ever hold life insurance.

why? 

we have 750k saved already
look up Social Security Survivor benefits.  if i die today my wife and child would get close to 50k a year til my child was 16 and then 25k a year til the child was 18 ...

insurance is only used when needed. and in your case its wildly unecessary.

ysette9

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2018, 08:45:20 AM »
Check out the entry in the Bogleheads investment forum on common investment mistakes, specifically Sunk Cost Fallacy. That is the trap you are in with the crypto money. As MMM has said, if you wouldn’t buy it today for that price then you need to sell it. That money is just a big opportunity cost that isn’t working for you by not being invested in something good for the long term.

I agree with others that trying to market time is a losing game (“I think the market valuation is high”). That said, what about diversifying into a total international stock fund? With that you could get some beneficial diversification and have the mental feel-good of not putting all of your cash into the “over-valued” US market. Note: I totally disagree that we can know it is over-valued, and even if it is, it still likely is a better net over the next 20-50 years than anything else you could easily invest in at this point.

Harping on the crypto doesn't make a lot of sense here it's such a small amount of money. People blow 2k on much less
It isn’t the actual value of $2k but the life lesson of how to do good investment practices to set someone up for a lifetime of good money management.

Hirondelle

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2018, 09:18:50 AM »
Hi Yuppie! Nice to see a fellow 24yo here. You've got a pretty nice stash already and have gotten a great salary for a LCOL being only 2 years out of college.

Now 68% savings rate sounds pretty sweet, but honestly, since you're living with your parents and housing is a major chunk of most people's budgets, I think that's not that impressive considering you barely have any bills.

It seems like most of your budget is going to your car. How long is your commute and what MPG does your car get? You mention it's not worth it to get a cheaper/better MPG car, but considering you spend about $500/month on it it's the biggest savings item you've got out there. A cheaper car is likely to get you a lower insurance rate + less gas costs. So let's say you can cut your car costs by $150/mo, it will take less than 3 years to earn a 5k car back not taking into account that you it might have depreciated less than that.

The other item standing out is your food budget, which is about 25% of your costs. It sounds like you get takeout or go out for food regularly, so just try to cut back on this and/or take cheaper options when you go.

Btw; you mention that things like travel and occasional expenses come out of your cash savings. Now this is great as you have good cash flow and a decent EF, but it doesn't count as real savings so your savings rate is most likely lower than 68%. Keep track of those expenses for a while and see how they equal out over time so you can budget for them.

robartsd

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2018, 10:23:50 AM »
Gym membership: $120/yr ($10/mo.)
Spotify: $120/yr ($10/mo.)
I choose to live without such subscriptions, but these are fairly inexpensive luxuries to indulge in.

Food/Groceries: ~$2.9k/yr. (I budget for $60/wk or $240/mo.; I don't always end up eating that much)
Fuel: $3.6k/yr. ($300/mo.) - I probably actually spend materially less than what's budgeted here, but I tried to be conservative since I drive alot for work (long commute) and my SUV doesn't get great mpg :/
Looks like some fat needs trimming.

With regards to car maintenance, I sort of capture that under the amount of money I save every month into a online high yield savings acct (~$1.1k); so I don't have a separate line item on my budget for "car maintenance" but if I ever have a major repair or standard maintenance, it would come out of those savings. Travel, as well, would come from these savings (I put some amount of those monthly savings towards a 'vacation fund')

For clothes, personal purchases, eating/drinking out, gifts, and entertainment, I have ~$340 a month leftover that I can use for guilt-free spending that goes towards those buckets, if that makes sense.
More spending to trim - just not well tracked yet. I think you have to consider how much reaching FI sooner is important to you. Sure, you're on your way with a 68% savings rate (without paying your own current housing costs); but you could easily get to 75-80% savings rate if seriously looked at all spending.

Life insurance: $330/yr
How much coverage, who is beneficiary, why do you have this?
So the life insurance is a 30-yr term life insurance that my dad actually bought for me when I was a bit younger (late teens). I think he did that because he said he wanted to lock in a lower rate now vs. getting it later when I was older and it being more expensive? I just decided to take over the annual payment instead of him paying it.
I think your dad's insurance salesman did a good job selling coverage that wasn't needed. Low rates don't make sense when you pay them for decades that you don't need the coverage. How soon do you expect to add dependents to your life? 30 year term insurance purchased in late teens may or may not provide adequate coverage when you add dependents before reaching FI. If you don't add dependents until after reaching FI, you don't need life insurance at all.

It seems the consensus here is that I should sell my remaining position (~$2k) in the crypto and move back into equities so it can start earning me some yield again.
Yep.

Don't let the sunk cost fallacy perpetuate either the life insurance or the crypto - look at both of them for what they are right now, not what has been paid for them in the past.

civil4life

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2018, 11:22:59 AM »

By 'stache' are you referring to what I'll need in retirement? What my actual annual expenses are (based on my actual spending habits?)

Stache is an MMM colloquial term for the money you have saved.  I am not sure if anyone has specifically defined it to represent a specific value.  I would think your networth is probably the most closely related term. 

For the term life policy there may actually be able to get some of it back when you cancel depending on the terms of it.

I am not the best person to ask about the best vehicle etc.  However it looks like someone else answered that one.

ysette9

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2018, 12:01:41 PM »
Your stash usually refers to your net invested assets, the assets which will produce income for you in retirement. This is different from net worth in that it doesn’t include net worth from a house, as that doesn’t generate income unless you sell it and downsize.

GizmoTX

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2018, 12:24:09 PM »
OP, my son is also 24, so I think I'm aware of the issues. He's completely independent & debt free. He fully funds his 401k & Roth IRA, plus has an emergency fund. While we would love to have him living with us, it postpones adulting, IMO.

You need a budget. The You Need A Budget (YNAB) app is excellent. It allows you to 'spend' every dollar you have coming in, yet is easily modified as circumstances change. Watch the videos. You really have to set goals & see where your money is going. I use this as well as DS.

Learn to cook. Now. This will save you money & be much healthier. Start by shopping & cooking at least one dinner per week for your family. It will benefit them & help you learn meal time management. Make it a balanced meal: protein plus 2 healthy sides. Stretch yourself beyond pizza & heating things up.

Cancel the life insurance & sell the crypto crap. Make sure you have disability insurance as well as health insurance.

boarder42

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Re: 24 years old - Evaluate my Finances
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2018, 07:01:38 PM »
I disagree with budgeting and don't think the op need it the spending isn't out of control. Budgeting vs cognitive spending typically leads to over spending.