24 with my 1st Salary - Case Study for ya

[24forMore]

Hi there. This is my 1st post and I'm glad to finally be an active member on the forum. I look up to many members on here.
I got my first job this year with my first salary. I've set some financial goals and I'd love to hear all your thoughts. First, some background.

Background: I'm 24. My base salary is $54,000. I'm a Speech-Language Pathologist in a school district. After taxes, my take-home pay is $40,250. My TRS (Teacher Retirement System) contribution is factored into the taxes. AKA - I will receive a pension (which consists of 70% of the average of my 5 highest salaries). I max out that pension (reach the 70%) at age 67. However, I don't have full faith in TRS.

I live at home, I am still on my parents' insurances, I drive an old family car, and my parents pay for groceries and my phone bill. I don't have a real-life expense other than gas for work which adds up to about 220$ a month. It's a 30 minute commute 1-way. I try to repay my parents with shoveling, cooking dinner, doing chores. I'm a lucky young man to have solid parents and zero debt. They are well-off and I am not putting a strain on them or I'd be paying these expenses myself. I will take great care of my parents as they get older. The other expense is the girlfriend, but we are both thrifty people by nature. 

Financial Stats right now: I have $2,000 in my savings, $9,900 in my Checkings (this will be moved soon - love to hear your thoughts on what you'd do in my position). I opened a Roth IRA Vanguard account and a Vanguard Savings/Brokerage account. I have $6,000 right now in my Roth for 2019 - completely invested in VTSAX. There is nothing in my brokerage account. I set up VG auto-investments yesterday to deposit $545.50 monthly to the Roth (to max out 2020), and $300 monthly to the brokerage. I setup an autosave feature for my Chase savings for $1,750 a month.

(Monthly Breakdown): Total take-home is $3,207.
$545.50 to Roth IRA
$300 to Brokerage
$1,750 to Savings
and about $607 to Checkings [I spend $350-400 between gas and fun, and the rest will probably be shoveled back into the Savings or Brokerage].

My GOALS: By 26, I'll still be living at home, I'd like to have maxed out my ROTH IRA to bring it up to $18,000, I want to have $31,000 in my Savings, and the rest in the Brokerage accounts. Most importantly, I plan to take up a PRN position at a Skilled Nursing Facility after-school next year to bring my salary into the 65-70k range. I'd do it sooner, but this is my clinical fellowship year and in May I'll have my full licensure. Which really means if I get a second job quickly that I'll work more during June and July to bump my salary up from the $54,000 to closer to $60,000.

The $31,000 in savings is idealized for $20,000 DP for a house, $5000 for a used hybrid, and $5000 emergency fund. The last $1,000 is put in for a plane ticket to Florida this summer and for a road trip to Bozeman, Montana.

I am not looking to retire by 30, but I am looking for the option to retire around 50 and to keep working stress free. I plan on having a family and 2-3 kids. I do enjoy my job and by then I will be taking the summers off.

I threw a lot at you and thank you for reading it all. Please let me know what you'd do differently. I am excited to see your replies and for the future. Save on Mockakon.

[MrThatsDifferent]

You’re doing great. All good goals. If you have a good family system right now, then ride that while you build your nest egg. Since you’re not looking to even consider retiring for 26 years, you’re fine. Your head is screwed on right. Read all of MMM’s articles, keep that good head on your shoulders and you’ll have all you want and more.

[marty998]

Do you plan on marrying the girlfriend? If so, when? What are her finances like? Does she have debt/student loans?

Quickest way for you and her to dig a huge hole for yourselves is to insist on a big ring and a big engagement and a big wedding and big honeymoon. You're in a good place with no debt, don't fuck it up before you get going.

You should trust that your pension will be there. I see too many people think that because rules get tweaked or changed here and there that they have no faith in the system. Any politician who messes with pensions too much generally finds themselves the loser at the ballot box. You can believe that they do not have that amount of courage to take it on.

[Laura33]

First, congratulations.  At this point, the details are almost irrelevant.  What matters is that you've got a good head on your shoulders and a good plan.  There are a lot of people who would be using the financial freedom of living at home to spend the extra money on nice cars and vacations and stuff. 

The most important things you can do going forward are:  (1) track every penny you spend -- just get in that habit now; and (2) don't inflate your lifestyle as your earnings increase.  Obviously, your expenses will increase when you move out at some point; that's not what I'm talking about.  What I mean is when you're in the middle of juggling both jobs, you don't want to fall into the habit of eating takeout or fast food because it's easier; you don't want to let a car salesman talk you into the upgraded model that you don't need because it's "such a deal"; etc.  I know it sounds pretty obvious, but this shit is sneaky as hell, and so if you're not paying attention for it, you can find yourself 5 years down the road spending twice as much on "stuff" as you are now and yet with no better or happier life to show for it.  AMHIK.

A few thoughts as you move forward:

Protect your downside risk.  You have a lot of ability and energy, along with a very good plan to take advantage of those traits.  The biggest risk to your success right now is something happening to you that prevents you from executing -- an accident, a major illness, etc.  Do you have disability insurance through work?  If so, make sure you have opted in if needed and that you max out the amount of coverage (usually around 60% of current salary).  And you want to pay for that in post-tax dollars, so any claim is tax-free (which is why it maxes out around 60%).  If you don't have it through work, look into a policy through a private carrier.

Max out your tax-sheltered plans.  I think your plan sounds great for right now; you have a number of short-term goals, and so it is reasonable to save for those goals in a regular savings account/brokerage.  But as your income increases, you will want to make sure that you are contributing as much as possible to any tax-sheltered accounts that are available to you (I don't know the ins and outs of those in your situation, so look into it).  In particular, as your income increase, look into whether a traditional IRA is more favorable than a Roth.  Heck, I'd look into that now -- the delta between your gross and your net seems pretty high for your salary, so your taxes may be higher than they need to be, meaning it's worthwhile to run some scenarios.  And don't assume that your taxes will be higher in retirement than they are now:  you have time to read up on this, but there are a lot of ways to withdraw money from a traditional IRA/401(k) in a way that minimizes or even avoids taxes.

Plan for the worst.  Right now, your plan is very good and realistic.  But what you can't possibly know is whether 40-year-old you is still going to be as excited about going to work as 24-year-old you is.  Over-save now, so you can buy yourself the freedom to make a different choice later.

Finally, read and keep learning.  There is so much information out there, and so many voices and ways of looking at things.  Find the ones that make sense to you and dive in.  The more you learn, the better-informed your decisions will be. 

[Freedomin5]

I agree with all the other posters.

Just a few additional thoughts...

In addition to disability insurance, consider critical illness insurance. Basically, you need insurance in case you're not able to work for whatever reason.

I know that you plan to work until you're 50. However, keep in mind that the burn out rate for therapists can be quite high. My sister is a speech therapist, and she has switched jobs three times in about 8 years, after completing her clinical fellowship and getting her license. In addition, with the way healthcare is going, tertiary services/non-essential services are always at risk of being cut. For example, many insurance companies no longer consider speech therapy as a service that they cover. As people have to start paying out of pocket for speech language therapy, you may see a decrease in your clientele. By keeping in mind and minimizing lifestyle inflation, aim to be FI before age 50. That way, you have flexibility if there are changes in what insurance covers or in healthcare funding. Even after achieving FI, you can keep working if you enjoy it.

[24forMore]

Do you plan on marrying the girlfriend? If so, when? What are her finances like? Does she have debt/student loans?

Quickest way for you and her to dig a huge hole for yourselves is to insist on a big ring and a big engagement and a big wedding and big honeymoon. You're in a good place with no debt, don't fuck it up before you get going.

You should trust that your pension will be there. I see too many people think that because rules get tweaked or changed here and there that they have no faith in the system. Any politician who messes with pensions too much generally finds themselves the loser at the ballot box. You can believe that they do not have that amount of courage to take it on.

I've been dating the gf for a year. Everything is going really well. However, she will be coming out of school with debt. She will have $80,000 of debt which is nuts but I think with hardcore budgeting we could work through it in 2-3 years. The truth is that she will have $110,000 in debt but she has not been spending all her federally loaned money and she wants to pay out her single parent out of the loan immediately due to the parent being financially irresponsible, and I think that's a great idea to maintain a positive relationship with that parent. She is not in a super lucrative field... She'll likely make between $45,000 and $60,000. I will not mess up the foundation I'm laying with a crazy expensive ring, wedding, honey moon, etc. We talk about finances a lot and often brainstorm the mistakes that both of our parents have made.

Max out your tax-sheltered plans.  I think your plan sounds great for right now; you have a number of short-term goals, and so it is reasonable to save for those goals in a regular savings account/brokerage.  But as your income increases, you will want to make sure that you are contributing as much as possible to any tax-sheltered accounts that are available to you (I don't know the ins and outs of those in your situation, so look into it).  In particular, as your income increase, look into whether a traditional IRA is more favorable than a Roth.  Heck, I'd look into that now -- the delta between your gross and your net seems pretty high for your salary, so your taxes may be higher than they need to be, meaning it's worthwhile to run some scenarios.  And don't assume that your taxes will be higher in retirement than they are now:  you have time to read up on this, but there are a lot of ways to withdraw money from a traditional IRA/401(k) in a way that minimizes or even avoids taxes.

Plan for the worst.  Right now, your plan is very good and realistic.  But what you can't possibly know is whether 40-year-old you is still going to be as excited about going to work as 24-year-old you is.  Over-save now, so you can buy yourself the freedom to make a different choice later.

Thank you for your thoughts. I enjoy cooking and being a thrify but healthy eater. I would say my lifestyle during the workweek has deflated and I'm aware of the danger of getting used to have more money and spending more. I like to think that if I never lose control of my spending, I'll never have to get back in control. My work offers a 403(b), but no matching. I'm looking more into that but I really love the idea of contributing year after year to the Roth. If you could expand any more on your thoughts of the Roth vs 403(b), please do. My thought is that once I'm pulling in more than $84,000, then I'd start contributing the excess over $84,000 into the 403(b). This is a topic I will look more into.

I couldn't agree more on how my mindset could change. I know I've changed my mindset on big decisions in the past so I'm not completely naive. I have more faith in my mindset than normal because I don't know what I'd do with a full day, and I still have a large amount of time after work to exercise, read, and enjoy my other hobbies. When my children are in school, I can work and be done when they are done. I'm also optimistic about my mindset staying the same because I will have summers off eventually to help avoid the monotony and burn-out. But minds can change, I will front-load my savings to help prep for the worst case scenario/mindset change in the future.

Thanks guys and other posters, please continue letting me know what you think. Save on Mockakon

[MrThatsDifferent]

You should read through millionaireeducator.com, he’s the MMM of finances for teachers with lots to say about 403s

[24forMore]

You should read through millionaireeducator.com, he’s the MMM of finances for teachers with lots to say about 403s

Thank You! I'll start looking through this tonight.

[24forMore]

I'm curious as to others thoughts on my gf's debt and any tips for how to promote buckling down to get through that debt quick. I plan to help her out if we get married, but I want to see how serious she is about getting out of debt before I propose.

[AMandM]

I think the fact that you and gf have been talking about the debt and about finances in general is a very good sign. The fact that she is not spending all of the money she has borrowed is an even better sign. And better still is the fact that she has a plan that recognizes important human relationships and real human frailties. Congrats to her!

Two of my children graduated without debt and married people with significant (5-figure) college debt. Both couples have joint finances, which I think is the best route: all the money either spouse earns is "our money" with which to attack "our debt." There's no feeling that one person is charitably helping the other, or that one is more financially constrained than the other.

[wellactually]

Congrats on finishing school!

I had zero debt and about 8k in savings when I got married. My husband had 54k in student loan debt and less than $1000 in savings. We have had joint finances from the beginning. I paid for the honeymoon. We used my savings to pay off his state student loans a month after marriage.

For me, it was easy to take on joint debt-payoff because we were united in the plan. DH had graduated with his masters a year before we started dating. He regretted the choice (mostly of the specific, not useful masters degree) and owned up to it. He even said he should have done more to work part time when he was available during grad school and undergrad so that he borrowed less for living costs in DC. He felt really really bad for a long time. But that's not helpful after a point. And it wouldn't be helpful for me to be bitter about it either. It existed already and we were on the same page about wanting to get rid of the 6.8% weight as soon as possible.

We actually took the financial peace university class from dave ramsey in months 2-3 of marriage. We've done a budget together every single month in over 5 years of marriage. Learning that we could live with less was a great lesson and we saved for a downpayment and IVF super fast because of the discipline we'd developed.

You've clearly had a super supportive family situation and privileges which helped you get to this point financially. My parents paid for my college. I'd feel like a child if I tried to pass that off as something I did better than my husband!

There is a huge, beautiful middle ground between score keeping and taking advantage. Even if debt wasn't involved, you'd still need to come to an agreement or compromise about finances when you decide to join lives with someone permanently. From someone who has been in your situation, please hear that if you decide to join finances and pay this off on some schedule together, it will not be helpful for you, her, or your relationship to remember this as some favor you did her.

[Laura33]

She will have $80,000 of debt which is nuts but I think with hardcore budgeting we could work through it in 2-3 years. The truth is that she will have $110,000 in debt but she has not been spending all her federally loaned money and she wants to pay out her single parent out of the loan immediately due to the parent being financially irresponsible, and I think that's a great idea to maintain a positive relationship with that parent. She is not in a super lucrative field... She'll likely make between $45,000 and $60,000.

Oh, no.  Nonononononononono.  Do NOT bail out the mom.  And especially do NOT bail out the mom with the one kind of debt that you can't ever escape, even in bankruptcy.  $80K in debt is bad enough; tacking on more than half a year's gross salary to help an irresponsible relative is just flat-out stupid.

1.  You can't solve financial irresponsibility by handing it more money.  I 100% guarantee that if she bails out her parent, a year later that money will be gone and the parent will be in the same amount of debt again -- if not worse.

2.  If you decide to help the parent, make it a gift.  The parent will absolutely not pay this money back, not ever.  So if your GF expects to be repaid, it will make the relationship much worse, not better. 

3.  If you give or loan the money now, expect more requests down the road.  Your generosity will demonstrate to the parent that not only is the daughter employed, but both the daughter and the bf are happy to provide money when needed to bail parent out of a jam.  That means you and your gf will become the first target the next time the parent digs a hole they can't get out of.  These repeated requests will fray the relationship, as financially irresponsible people will push to get as much as they can before you say no.

You are young.  You do not have this life experience yet.  But trust me:  this is how it goes.

The absolute best thing you can do right now with your gf is to establish reasonable boundaries with the parent.  Are you going to provide support?  If so, under what circumstances?  How much?  How often?  What are the strings -- paying it back on time, not blowing the money, or what?  What will be the trigger for you to say no?  How will your gf feel saying no, and how can the two of you manage that so that you don't wind up in a disagreement that hurts your own relationship?  Etc.  If this is going to last, you need a unified approach and a unified front with that parent.

[marty998]

Agree, please listen very very carefully to Laura33.

Your girlfriend is not going to see that $30k ever again. Not only will your girlfriend's parent windup back in debt down the track, but it's going to cost you and your girlfriend much more in interest costs while you guys pay that off.

Really bad idea.

[wellactually]

I got the impression that paying off the mom meant immediately paying off a parent-plus loan. Sure that is legally the mom's responsibility, but the gf might have had a verbal agreement about what the payback would look like.

I agree with not doing a lump sum payoff of that and certainly don't borrow money to pay. But I get the idea of pay off a parent plus loan first.

[BicycleB]

All great comments, especially about not using debt to bail out the irresponsible, even if they're parents. Model responsibility, don't just fulfill parents' codependency scripts. Boundaries are hard, growth that feels "mean" even harder, but very worthwhile. You can love a parent without making decisions the same way they do.

I've read a couple on this very forum who didn't do that, and the parent-sized leaky holes in finance caused marital problems. That case was one where the girlfriend said yes to the loans; they were further down the path when arriving at the forum, and listened less.

@24forMore, congrats on your responsibility to date, including your self-awareness that you could spend more if you let yourself go. Keep talking with girlfriend; if you can build a relationship that has unity on finances, you have a strong foundation for marriage.

Good luck to everyone in the fam.

PS. Re $10,000 savings, investing half might make it look more inaccessible for spending. Judgment call. Re house, study the finances carefully. Whether it's an automatic good call, bad call or neither varies widely between different markets. You don't have to own a house to be responsible grownups.

[Lucky13]

Sorry if this was already mentioned above but are you sure you can get a house for $100k, maybe that is possible in your region but if not then $20K downpayment might not be enough.  I'd recommend renting for at least 6 months, living on your own, before buying a home/condo so you can get a better idea of your expenses.  Living with your parents there are things you're not paying for (utilities etc)  so you might not have a complete picture, or at least do some research. Also there are many expenses that come with home ownership besides the downpayment and mortgage.

Didn't me to sound negative, it's actually awesome that you're saving money living at home while you can, kinda wish I'd done that!

[24forMore]

Hi All, thanks for the many replies.

She will have $80,000 of debt which is nuts but I think with hardcore budgeting we could work through it in 2-3 years. The truth is that she will have $110,000 in debt but she has not been spending all her federally loaned money and she wants to pay out her single parent out of the loan immediately due to the parent being financially irresponsible, and I think that's a great idea to maintain a positive relationship with that parent. She is not in a super lucrative field... She'll likely make between $45,000 and $60,000.

Oh, no.  Nonononononononono.  Do NOT bail out the mom.  And especially do NOT bail out the mom with the one kind of debt that you can't ever escape, even in bankruptcy.  $80K in debt is bad enough; tacking on more than half a year's gross salary to help an irresponsible relative is just flat-out stupid.

1.  You can't solve financial irresponsibility by handing it more money.  I 100% guarantee that if she bails out her parent, a year later that money will be gone and the parent will be in the same amount of debt again -- if not worse.

2.  If you decide to help the parent, make it a gift.  The parent will absolutely not pay this money back, not ever.  So if your GF expects to be repaid, it will make the relationship much worse, not better. 

3.  If you give or loan the money now, expect more requests down the road.  Your generosity will demonstrate to the parent that not only is the daughter employed, but both the daughter and the bf are happy to provide money when needed to bail parent out of a jam.  That means you and your gf will become the first target the next time the parent digs a hole they can't get out of.  These repeated requests will fray the relationship, as financially irresponsible people will push to get as much as they can before you say no.

You are young.  You do not have this life experience yet.  But trust me:  this is how it goes.

The absolute best thing you can do right now with your gf is to establish reasonable boundaries with the parent.  Are you going to provide support?  If so, under what circumstances?  How much?  How often?  What are the strings -- paying it back on time, not blowing the money, or what?  What will be the trigger for you to say no?  How will your gf feel saying no, and how can the two of you manage that so that you don't wind up in a disagreement that hurts your own relationship?  Etc.  If this is going to last, you need a unified approach and a unified front with that parent.

Agree, please listen very very carefully to Laura33.

Your girlfriend is not going to see that $30k ever again. Not only will your girlfriend's parent windup back in debt down the track, but it's going to cost you and your girlfriend much more in interest costs while you guys pay that off.

Really bad idea.

I got the impression that paying off the mom meant immediately paying off a parent-plus loan. Sure that is legally the mom's responsibility, but the gf might have had a verbal agreement about what the payback would look like.

I agree with not doing a lump sum payoff of that and certainly don't borrow money to pay. But I get the idea of pay off a parent plus loan first.

I apologize if I wasn't super clear. WellActually got it right. About 30k is in a parent-plus loan, so the gf just wants her parent out of the equation right away and then we'd start budgeting. My thought is to test her. We'd live together for a year after she graduates and we'd split rent, and other expenses. I'd tell her that I'll pay for food and her job is to maul her debt. I want to see how seriously she takes it. I have good hope as she shows many great signs of being frugal and having great values. I don't wilt easily and I have no problem saying no, so if the parent asked me for a loan in the future, I would say no and think about (possibly) a small amount I could gift. I don't loan to family members, these relationships are too close to be jeopardized by money involvement.

Sorry if this was already mentioned above but are you sure you can get a house for $100k, maybe that is possible in your region but if not then $20K downpayment might not be enough.  I'd recommend renting for at least 6 months, living on your own, before buying a home/condo so you can get a better idea of your expenses.  Living with your parents there are things you're not paying for (utilities etc)  so you might not have a complete picture, or at least do some research. Also there are many expenses that come with home ownership besides the downpayment and mortgage.

Didn't me to sound negative, it's actually awesome that you're saving money living at home while you can, kinda wish I'd done that!

20k for a downpayment? I don't know much about real-estate. But, if I wanted a $200,000 house in the far off suburbs of Chicago, wouldn't that be 10% down, or is 20% down expected? I plan on renting until 4-6 months after all debt is paid off to build up a good down payment and to create a great emergency fund. 20k by 26 could be just the start of the fund before I POSSIBLY get married and start paying off debt with my partner.

Thanks again ladies and gents.

[BicycleB]

In ordinary price ranges, 20% down payment for home purchase used to be traditional. Today it depends somewhat on which state, and the circumstances of the buyer. First time buyers can often use govt-backed programs that enable smaller down payments such as 3.5%.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/mortgages/fha-loan-requirements
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fhaloan.asp

If your down payment is less than 20%, you likely will have to pay mortgage insurance (which pays the bank if you fail to, but in that case you lose the house). So small vs large down payment choices can involve tradeoffs that you could calculate.

[MrThatsDifferent]

Check out your state’s first home buyer program, some states have good grants and other incentives.

[Laura33]

OK -- $30K payoff of a ParentPlus loan to get the irresponsible parent out of your financial lives once and for all is a completely different situation!  Go forth and conquer.  ;-)

(But please don't "test" your gf -- I'm assuming that's a flip word choice and not really what you meant, but boy, if she gets even a hint of "I'm living with you for a year to decide whether you pass my test and are good enough to marry" . . . well, let's just say that that sort of thing doesn't tend to be well-received by the kind of girl you'd actually want to marry.)

[24forMore]

OK -- $30K payoff of a ParentPlus loan to get the irresponsible parent out of your financial lives once and for all is a completely different situation!  Go forth and conquer.  ;-)

(But please don't "test" your gf -- I'm assuming that's a flip word choice and not really what you meant, but boy, if she gets even a hint of "I'm living with you for a year to decide whether you pass my test and are good enough to marry" . . . well, let's just say that that sort of thing doesn't tend to be well-received by the kind of girl you'd actually want to marry.)

I hear ya. Test is the harshest and the word that jumped in my head the quickest. However, I think that's somewhat truthful. When I marry whoever I marry, I plan on taking a team/partner approach and merging accounts, budgeting together, cause I think that makes for a strong relationship with great communication. I would never say this is your "trial run, let's see if you got it in you," but I will save on my own, talk about finances openly, and see how she responds verbally, but more importantly with her actions.

Glad to clear up the parent-plus loan. The idea is exactly to get the irresponsible parent out of the way for good. Thanks for the reply.

[schmerna]

When you repay the ParentPlus Loan, pay it directly to the lender.  Do not give financially irresponsible parent the check for 30K!  I have seen this go very wrong.