Author Topic: NEED Help on 8 to 10 years plan  (Read 1911 times)

Ten2021

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NEED Help on 8 to 10 years plan
« on: July 04, 2021, 08:57:55 PM »
Eight to Ten years plan to FIRE

Life Situation: Single mom, age 40. Full time work.  One child, 15
Gross Salary/Wages: $78k
Rental Income : $9k yearly
Side business : $2k yearly ( if I spent more time on side business will add up to 12k per year)

Contribution to retirement account Annually :
401k -17% of salary + 6% company match
HAS-$7.2k
Roth – $6k 

Paycheck take home monthly : $3.6k (after tax, deductions )

Current expenses Monthly - $3430  ( include business expense and kid activities)
Will list the details if need. Property tax is high here and even I try hard to break even. Looks like no way to save 50% of paycheck. It is about 1.1k per month spent on housing without mortgage. I am thinking to have a roommate to reduce the cost but my kid wants to keep privacy.

Assets:
401k – $160K - FXAIX- 30%,WFDRX-8%, FSMDX-12%, PJFZX 20%, PRUFX 30%
Roth – $23k (stock)
HSA- $11k (stock)
ER fund – $15k

1 rental house paid off - $210k
1 house residential paid off - $250k 

Total assets including property equity = 669k
 



Specific Question(s):

Base on current saving rate (30%) if it is possible retire in 10 years between 48 to 50 ? Based on x25 and 4% rule, it will be at least 1 million. The plan is to take 401k after 59 ½ . SSN @ 62 is 10k per year. Only worked 13 years and low income. I used the SSN website to estimate the SSN income @62.
I do not know if 1 million is 401k+Roth+HSA or all the asset (includes property).
I still can work part time but most time will spend with my parents and take care of them. At this period, the living expanse will be lower since I will move to parents’ house. Rental income from two properties ( estimate $20k per year by current market).  Assumption is both house rent out.
Health expanse is unknow. Do not know how to estimate it.

I need to spend lots of time on side business to earn more income. Not sure if I am still able to expand it after 10 years.

My case is unusual.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 07:48:31 PM by Ten2021 »

RWD

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Re: NEED Help on 8 to 10 years plan
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2021, 09:26:34 PM »
I'm coming up with your savings rate being higher than 30%. Maybe 40-50%, depending on how you count? If I am understanding correctly you are saving around $44k per year, right?

So you have $294k invested now. Adding $44k per year gets you to $1.19 million in 10 years (assumes 7% compounding). Add in the rental properties and you'll be done well before then.

Ten2021

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Re: NEED Help on 8 to 10 years plan
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2021, 09:44:45 PM »
My yearly saving is about $26k+ $4.6k ( 401k company match) = $ 30.6k.

Asset for retirement should subtract $100k (kid college fund). will keep growing in the market.


MrThatsDifferent

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Re: NEED Help on 8 to 10 years plan
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2021, 06:00:05 AM »
Ok, some thoughts:

1. To work out what you need in retirement then you’ll need to work out what your expenses will be then, try your best at guesstimating this and yes, itemize it so you know exactly
2. I wouldn’t factor the $100k in for your kid’s college because, well, that’s for your kid
3. Shame that there isn’t child support from the other parent, however, great that your parents have been so generous
4. With the properties, it might be good to break this out so we can see the value of each. There’s always the issue of whether to keep or sell the investment property and invest that.
5. If your plan is to retire in 8 to 10 years, move to your parents’ house and live there and then inherit their house, well, you’ll be fine financially.
6. You might also want to put thought into what life you’ll have for yourself, beyond taking care of your parents, who will and should try to be, as independent as long as possible.

Retireatee1

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Re: NEED Help on 8 to 10 years plan
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2021, 07:00:18 AM »
I took a stab at it with Retireator (attached, Microsoft Excel for Windows required).  Here are the highlights:

- State property/income tax not provided (set to Florida)
- Social Security at age 62 was guesstimated closer to $43,000/year in nominal dollars based on your current income which is much higher than your estimate.  How did you arrive at your estimate?
- I discarded the "cash in stock market" as it is not slated for retirement expenses
- The rental income is entered as passive income of $9000/yr this year and increases to $20,000/yr in 2031.  Note that rental income isn't modelled in a sophisticated way with this tool, it is just taxable passive income which continues past your retirement date.
- During the distribution phase, I added in $500 per month of healthcare expenses.
- The investment strategy for the portfolio is "target date fund".

The projected retirement date came out to 11/22/2029 which aligns with your goal.  Feel free to adjust the simulation parameters as needed.


FIRE 20/20

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Re: NEED Help on 8 to 10 years plan
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2021, 06:07:44 PM »
I may just be tired, but it seems like you have a lot of complicated things going on that make it a little difficult to provide good guidance.  Here are some of the things that are tripping me up.

First, is your rental properties actually a good investment?  I don't know much about real estate, but I've very often seen people on these forums post the details of their rental properties and have knowledgeable forum members explain why they'd be better off selling and investing that money in the market.  With the limited numbers I see here I suspect that might be the case for you.  It looks like the gross income from the rental is $9k / year, which isn't a lot, and the upkeep and other costs increase your monthly spending.  I would very strongly recommend posting a question just about your rental property in the "Real Estate and Landlording" section of this website.  You might find that it's a great investment, but you might also find that this might be a great time to sell it. 
You may also want to do the same thing with estimates for the house it sounds like you're currently living in.  The main reason I'm posting this is that two houses worth $460k should (I think, again I'm not an expert) be generating a LOT more than $20k / year.  It looks to me like these are not good rental properties, but the good mustacians in the Real Estate forum will be able to give you better advice than I can on that topic. 

Specific Question(s):

Base on current saving rate (30%) if it is possible retire in 10 years between 48 to 50 ? Based on x25 and 4% rule, it will be at least 1 million. The plan is to take 401k after 59 ½ . SSN @ 62 is 10k per year. I do not know if 1 million is 401k+Roth+HSA or all the asset (includes property).
The $1 Million as based on your invested assets and should not include the home you live in or any rental properties.  They are treated separately because the 4% rule of thumb comes from a mix of stock and bond investments.  Rental properties vary tremendously in terms of the income that they generate as well as the costs for maintenance, property taxes, and vacancies.  Some great Real Estate wizard may be able to generate a long-term, consistent income of more than 4% of the rental properties' value, while other RE investors may barely generate any income at all after expenses. 
To do the math properly, it's important to get a good estimate of your expenses after you FIRE.  I assume your expenses will go down after your child is out of the house.  If you're living at your parents' house then your expenses then might only be $20k / year or even less.  As long as you'll be able to maintain that (or whatever your expenses will be) after they pass, then your number might be lower than $1M.  Anyway, after you have a good handle on your living expenses when you FIRE then you need to figure out how much income you will be able to count on from your assets.  Again, treat rental properties separately from the investments that are in the market.  The people on the Real Estate sub-forum can help with that.  Assuming the 401(k) money is in the market (it isn't listed as "stock" like the Roth and HSA are, so I'm worried that money isn't invested) then take 4% of that to get the income from that portion of your assets. 
Here's an example of how the math might work, but keep in mind these are just my guesses for your numbers:
$40k income required.
$20k rental income reduces required income from other assets to $20k
$20k required from investments (other than rental properties) = $20k * 25 (from 4% rule) = $500k invested assets required

Note that if you were to continue to work your side business, you could quit your day job as soon as you move into your parents house and the rental income increased to $20k  because your side business is bringing in $24k and could bring in $36k.  I'm not recommending that because I don't know the stability of your side business and it would lock you into continuing that long-term (longer than 10 years).  But I think it's nice to know that you aren't tied to your current day job if you don't want to be.  Side business income is incredibly valuable even if it doesn't bring in a huge income. 

I still can work part time but most time will spend with my parents and take care of them. At this period, the living expanse will be lower since I will move to parents’ house. Rental income from two properties ( estimate $20k per year by current market). 
Health expanse is unknow. Do not know how to estimate it.

Health care costs are very easy to estimate!  There are a ton of calculators online you can use, but there are some tricky bits.  One is that costs and thresholds can vary by state.  Second, your income dramatically impacts your options and costs.  If you make too little, you'll end up on Medicaid.  If you make too much, you'll pay the full cost of your insurance.  Many people who FIRE try to keep their income to somewhere around 1.5-2x the federal poverty rate to get the best deals on health insurance.  Note that income does NOT equal spending!  Some people spend $100k / year but generate income of $30k / year to keep their health insurance and tax costs down and make up the difference from their taxable accounts.  It's a game, but after you learn the rules it's an easy one to win - although it does take some planning.  I'd be happy to help figure out an estimate of your health care costs if you want help and if you let us know what state you plan to FIRE to. 


« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 06:10:03 PM by FIRE 20/20 »

FIRE 20/20

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Re: NEED Help on 8 to 10 years plan
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2021, 06:13:59 PM »
I have a couple of additional questions about your side business, but my earlier reply was getting too long.  Do you plan to continue your side business after you move in with your parents?  I realize you'll be taking care of them, but if you're able to work a full-time job and raise a teenager while earning $2k / month on the side then you're really in fantastic shape.  If you can't count on your side business income long-term or you want to quit both jobs at the same time then that's a different situation. 

Ten2021

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Re: NEED Help on 8 to 10 years plan
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2021, 08:32:07 PM »
Ok, some thoughts:

1. To work out what you need in retirement then you’ll need to work out what your expenses will be then, try your best at guesstimating this and yes, itemize it so you know exactly
2. I wouldn’t factor the $100k in for your kid’s college because, well, that’s for your kid
3. Shame that there isn’t child support from the other parent, however, great that your parents have been so generous
4. With the properties, it might be good to break this out so we can see the value of each. There’s always the issue of whether to keep or sell the investment property and invest that.
5. If your plan is to retire in 8 to 10 years, move to your parents’ house and live there and then inherit their house, well, you’ll be fine financially.
6. You might also want to put thought into what life you’ll have for yourself, beyond taking care of your parents, who will and should try to be, as independent as long as possible.

Thanks for these inputs:

1. Expense is based on current cost. I may need $10k to 20k per year if live with parents. If by myself will be $36k. need to verify it by itemize.
4. I will evaluate the rental property.
5. I didn’t consider my parents’ house yet.
6. It is a very good question. My dream is traveling when I retire.

Ten2021

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Re: NEED Help on 8 to 10 years plan
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2021, 08:41:29 PM »
I took a stab at it with Retireator (attached, Microsoft Excel for Windows required).  Here are the highlights:

- State property/income tax not provided (set to Florida)
- Social Security at age 62 was guesstimated closer to $43,000/year in nominal dollars based on your current income which is much higher than your estimate.  How did you arrive at your estimate?
- I discarded the "cash in stock market" as it is not slated for retirement expenses
- The rental income is entered as passive income of $9000/yr this year and increases to $20,000/yr in 2031.  Note that rental income isn't modelled in a sophisticated way with this tool, it is just taxable passive income which continues past your retirement date.
- During the distribution phase, I added in $500 per month of healthcare expenses.
- The investment strategy for the portfolio is "target date fund".

The projected retirement date came out to 11/22/2029 which aligns with your goal.  Feel free to adjust the simulation parameters as needed.

Your spreadsheet is very helpful. I can adjust the numbers and play around.

I only worked 13 years and use SSN website to estimate the income @62. I may estimate too low on  10 years income in future.

Rental income from one house is $9k, if I move to parents house then will be double.

I corrected the ER cash is 15K.

Ten2021

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Re: NEED Help on 8 to 10 years plan
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2021, 09:20:26 PM »
I have a couple of additional questions about your side business, but my earlier reply was getting too long.  Do you plan to continue your side business after you move in with your parents?  I realize you'll be taking care of them, but if you're able to work a full-time job and raise a teenager while earning $2k / month on the side then you're really in fantastic shape.  If you can't count on your side business income long-term or you want to quit both jobs at the same time then that's a different situation.

Thanks for your inputs. I will evaluate the rental house if worth to keep. If move to parents house then couldn’t run the business locally. Unless it is big enough to creat passive income. Build business needs lots of effort and time. The problem is my current full time job requests overtime ( no overtime pay) and very intensive. Most case is to quit both job same time. If retire @50 then 10years gap maybe a problem. The living cost is the key.


My case is complicated. Only worked about 13 years and most time is low income so SSN income is lower than average. Low retirement saving.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: NEED Help on 8 to 10 years plan
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2021, 03:09:02 PM »
Maybe do a proper case study breaking out your expenses. $41k of expenses for two people with no mortgage or rental costs seems like a lot, so the first order of business is to trim that. Also, keep in mind that invested assets double every ten years generally. You would need to weigh the appreciation of the rental property and income derived minus expenses, versus selling and investing that money (minus costs) to determine which will generate more income.