Who buys lottery tickets?

[COlady]

I thought this article was interesting considering tge $1B jackpot.....

http://www.businessinsider.com/households-earning-less-than-13000-a-year-spend-9-of-their-income-on-lottery-tickets-2012-3

[Nickels Dimes Quarters]

I don't buy tickets for every game. I used to buy more often once it got to $100 million. But lots of times, I just forget. I have enough family members and close friends who play EVERY draw that I don't feel I need to always have a ticket. During the most recent jackpot run, I didn't buy a ticket until yesterday and yes, I will likely get a ticket (one ticket) for the Wednesday draw. While I consider the $2 ticket to be quite entertaining, I couldn't possibly buy more that one ticket for any drawing regardless of the jackpot amount.

NDQ

[Richie]

I only buy when it gets real high.  I bought on Wednesday and Saturday last week, and will buy again before this Wednesday.  It's a form of entertainment for me.

[Friar]

I bought one on Saturday for the UK Lottery. It was the biggest jackpot for a long time, and the talk at work for the week, so I entered into the syndicate with £2. The last time I played was years ago so I don't make a habit of it.

No success though :(

[COlady]

I'm planning on buying a couple tickets later today.  I've never bought a ticket before.

[lbmustache]

I buy one every so often regardless of the amount. I used to buy them a lot (maybe $10 a month, which is a lot for me to spend on something bogus like this) when I hated my old job. It was a form of escape/dreaming for me. :)

On the fence about buying a ticket for this one.

[icemodeled]

We never buy tickets but made an exception this time due to the amount its up to. We will buy just one before wednesdays drawing.

[JLee]

I'll probably buy one this time just for the novelty of a $1bil lottery. I have no expectation whatsoever of getting anything out of it, lol.

[MsPeacock]

I buy them a few times a year when the jackpot gets crazy high. I bought two for last Saturday and two for this upcoming Wednesday. I find some entertainment value in the "what if I win" fantasy that is worth a few dollars to me. I've never been a regular at purchasing tickets.

The only people I've known to regularly buy tickets have tended to have significantly less disposable income than average (e.g. the janitors vs. the middle management people at work).

[jengod]

I never buy more than one, I never pick a number I just let the machine randomize it, and I only buy when the jackpot is a well-publicized bonanza, but I agree with MsPeacock, that the $1-2 in entertainment value of the fantasy is fun. I am aware that the lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math, and I am aware that I will never ever win, but I don't care.

[GrowingTheGreen]

I put in $2. Only buy when my coworkers start a pool. Cheap insurance!

[Friar]

I put in $2. Only buy when my coworkers start a pool. Cheap insurance!

Exactly. You don't want to be the only person left when everyone else quits, you want to be the one retiring whilst they all stay.

[Rural]

I think I may buy my first one ever this week (would be the first ever for both of us).  Cost is still higher than expected value, but it's likely closer than I'll see it again (unless of course no one wins Wednesday). Regardless it's sort of nifty for $2.

[raymond]

I once paid 100$ for a one year subscription that let me play once a week automatically. ROI zero, didn't even get the entertainment value. So I don't buy lottery tickets anymore.

[onlykelsey]

All of my working class, poor and working poor cousins.  My mom once tried to teach me why they were a bad bet by letting me spend my $5 on one as a kid, and I happened to win $25.  her job got a bit harder, haha.

[MsPeacock]

All of my working class, poor and working poor cousins.  My mom once tried to teach me why they were a bad bet by letting me spend my $5 on one as a kid, and I happened to win $25.  her job got a bit harder, haha.

Ha! I let my kids do a scratch off $1 game for the same reason and they won another ticket or $1 or so and yeah, lesson not quite learned.

[csprof]

I think I may buy my first one ever this week (would be the first ever for both of us).  Cost is still higher than expected value, but it's likely closer than I'll see it again (unless of course no one wins Wednesday). Regardless it's sort of nifty for $2.

It's about an expected $0.29 loss per ticket, depending on your estimate of how many tickets will be sold before the drawing (that's assuming about 700-800m sold).

But it's not counting the tax loss, *or* the fact that 1.3 billion is a, well, let's not say "lie", but an inflated number due to the 30 year interest.  If you count it as ~$800m with 40% lost to taxes, split 2.7 ways, then it's still a nasty tax on the desperate.  (Or decently cheap entertainment for those who can easily afford it.)

[The_path_less_taken]

Personally (not a math person) I like the odds better the draw AFTER a big jackpot: I think you're competition pool is smaller. (although the machine still picks what it picks, I get that)

There WILL be a winner this time though: last time 75% of the theoretically 'possible' number combos will pick. But this time I think some computer nerd will program a way to pick them all and buy them this time: why not, at two bucks a pop when it'll be 1.5 billion?

Good luck, all!

[Helvegen]

I buy maybe once every 6-8 weeks for fun. I usually stick to games that have odds 1:10 or better. Before this Thursday, I hadn't bought a PB ticket in years since they hiked the price. I could play MM for basically the same jackpots and half the cost, though I rarely bothered with MM either. I usually just play Hit 5 when the jackpot gets large enough. It has relatively good odds. I usually get my money back and sometimes a few bucks more.

[mxt0133]

I normally refer to the lottery as the 'idiot tax'.  But I got tickets to the last two drawings and will get one until it drops down again.  Like most here I consider it entertainment that $2 I spend lets me dream for about 15-20 minutes of what I would do with the money and the conclusion always comes to me being stressed out about how hide the money from every scammer, how it will affect my children's lives mostly for the worse in my mind anyway, and just generally adding more headaches to my life.  So I really have no idea why I even buy the dam thing as the end conclusion is I don't even want that kind of money and the responsibilities that come with it.

On a funny note, the sign for the Powerball was at 999 million today, I found it hilarious that they are going to have to change the signs now to account for the jackpots going up to a billion.

[csprof]

Personally (not a math person) I like the odds better the draw AFTER a big jackpot: I think you're competition pool is smaller. (although the machine still picks what it picks, I get that)

There WILL be a winner this time though: last time 75% of the theoretically 'possible' number combos will pick. But this time I think some computer nerd will program a way to pick them all and buy them this time: why not, at two bucks a pop when it'll be 1.5 billion?

Good luck, all!

They won't, because anyone who could automate it like that should also be able to do the math on it. :)

If one player comes along and buys 292 million extra #s, the expected number of winners will rise to about 4.  So the 800M lump-sump payout (remember, 1.3 billion is only if you pay out over 30 years) gets turned into approx. $200m/person.  For which your foolish computer programmer paid 292*2=$584m.

And s/he paid $584m post-tax, but the 200m is pre-tax, which becomes about $120m after tax assuming you live in a state that doesn't tax lottery winnings.

So the "buy all of them" strategy loses you an expected $464 million.

(I've done the math most of the times the powerball has gotten into insane levels, and I haven't yet seen a post-tax expected profitable time to buy a lottery ticket.)

For a fairly nice article on this, see:  http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-when-math-says-you-should-start-to-care-about-powerball-2013-9

But it doesn't cover the tax nastiness, which is what really puts the nail in the coffin.

Lotteries should stay as acknowledged money-losing entertainment.  Cheaper than going to a movie, though. :)

[The Guru]

I refuse to buy the things. It wouldn't be so bad if the primary participants were folks w/ their financial lives together wanting to have some fun, but I think we all know that's not usually the case. Imagine my chagrin then when my wife- who has never showed the slightest interest in the lottery in the 11+ years we've been together- insisted on buying one! She couldn't even really say why, or what "dreams" she would pursue with the winnings (have me bumped off maybe :-0). It was like being in one of those zombie movies, where my Loyal Partner and I were the only survivors of the Zombie Apocalypse, and we're in  farmhouse, surrounded, ready to make our last stand and I realize that AAARGH! MY LOYAL PARTNER IS A ZOMBIE TOO!!!

So at the risk of being branded totally clueless I have to ask: what is the appeal of that amount of money, specifically, vs. a run-of-the-mill lottery jackpot? I have never seen so many people who "never buy a ticket", who did this time I mean, I get the math; $700 million > say $ 70 million. But still- what can you do with $700 mil that you can't do w/ "only" 7 or 50 or 70 million? Couldn't a winner of less money also improve his lot in life, help others, set up charities, etc? Not to the same magnitude obviously, but still. It seems that if one doesn't object to the lottery in principle, and believed it was actually a feasible means of helping himself or others (or just enjoyed the fantasy of "what if?") they ought to play MORE often, since that would seem to be the only realistic way of increasing one's chances of winning.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

The lottery is a really awful thing and I refuse to participate. My in-laws think they're fun. Ugh.

[JLee]

I refuse to buy the things. It wouldn't be so bad if the primary participants were folks w/ their financial lives together wanting to have some fun, but I think we all know that's not usually the case. Imagine my chagrin then when my wife- who has never showed the slightest interest in the lottery in the 11+ years we've been together- insisted on buying one! She couldn't even really say why, or what "dreams" she would pursue with the winnings (have me bumped off maybe :-0). It was like being in one of those zombie movies, where my Loyal Partner and I were the only survivors of the Zombie Apocalypse, and we're in  farmhouse, surrounded, ready to make our last stand and I realize that AAARGH! MY LOYAL PARTNER IS A ZOMBIE TOO!!!

So at the risk of being branded totally clueless I have to ask: what is the appeal of that amount of money, specifically, vs. a run-of-the-mill lottery jackpot? I have never seen so many people who "never buy a ticket", who did this time I mean, I get the math; $700 million > say $ 70 million. But still- what can you do with $700 mil that you can't do w/ "only" 7 or 50 or 70 million? Couldn't a winner of less money also improve his lot in life, help others, set up charities, etc? Not to the same magnitude obviously, but still. It seems that if one doesn't object to the lottery in principle, and believed it was actually a feasible means of helping himself or others (or just enjoyed the fantasy of "what if?") they ought to play MORE often, since that would seem to be the only realistic way of increasing one's chances of winning.

But then I'd exceed my $1/year lottery budget...

[mxt0133]

For me it's because it becomes a social thing, basically jumping on the bandwagon.  Everyone starts talking about it and I get caught up in the moment along with everyone else.  You know like a bunch of lemming walking of a cliff.  Just like the Superbowl, I don't normally watch NFL games, but if I get invited to a Superbowl party I accept to be with friends and have lots of junk food.  I try not to think too deeply about the whole ritual, I just focus on the fun and entertainment.

[snogirl]

For me it's because it becomes a social thing, basically jumping on the bandwagon.  Everyone starts talking about it and I get caught up in the moment along with everyone else.  You know like a bunch of lemming walking of a cliff.  Just like the Superbowl, I don't normally watch NFL games, but if I get invited to a Superbowl party I accept to be with friends and have lots of junk food.  I try not to think too deeply about the whole ritual, I just focus on the fun and entertainment.

x2
My 3 coworkers and I spent $5 bucks each for fun on Saturday
and are doing it again for Weds.
I have never been a lottery ticket buyer at all.
For $10 this time, I get some good laughs and it puts my monthly budget out, um, not at all.
I have certainly spent way more on stupid things and not laughed at all.

[AZDude]

First, I love the lottery as its a voluntary tax that people enthusiastically pay. It (theoretically) lowers taxes on people who dont play, like me. Second, I have bought two tickets in my life, won $0 on them, and mostly dream about the headaches involved in suddenly having $1.3B handed over. I dont want to be famous, and that kind of money makes you famous.

Finally, you are far better off betting other longshots. Putting $10 down on some ridiculous sports parlay or something, where you could $100,000 or so, but have much better odds of winning(something like parlaying Chiefs winning the superbowl, 76ers winning the Atlantic division, and Gonzaga winning the NCAA tournament). Its still unlikely, but its not 1 in 292M unlikely... well maybe the 76ers part is.

[spud1987]

I put in $2. Only buy when my coworkers start a pool. Cheap insurance!

Exactly. You don't want to be the only person left when everyone else quits, you want to be the one retiring whilst they all stay.

Same here. My work has done a pool for the last two drawings. I said no to the first one, but yes to the second. It's been said that happiness is partly based on your position relative to others. I would be pretty unhappy if I was the only one of my co-workers who did not win (not to mention really really busy at work)!

[Villanelle]

I bought for Saturday's drawing, and will buy again for Wednesday (polled with my parents and sister).  I am sure I have bought tickets at some other time in my life, but I can't recall when.  I was pretty clueless when buying the tickets and the clerk had to walk me through it.  I assumed it was $1 per line, and I didn't know there was more than one lotto, so when she asked me which one I wanted, I gave her a blank stare, then said, "the really big one?".  She pointed to a sign that said "$800m" and I nodded.

[Lancchick]

I've never purchased lottery tickets. Despite the increasing award amount, the odds don't change. I think it's a waste of hard earned dollars.

[lostamonkey]

I don't bother playing the lotto. It has a negative expected value and I don't really get an pleasure from gambling. There is nothing wrong with buying an occasional loto ticket though. The problem is poor people spending half their pay cheque on it. I would consider it more a tax on the poor than a tax on the stupid.

[sol]

(I've done the math most of the times the powerball has gotten into insane levels, and I haven't yet seen a post-tax expected profitable time to buy a lottery ticket.)

Of course not, and you never will. States don't lose money on lotteries.  The whole point of having a lottery is that it generates revenue, which by definition means it has a negative EV for the players.  Even if you win, you will have made less money than the losers lost and the state pockets the difference minus administrative fees.

Just imagine a world in which 400 million people spent five minutes of their day to give $2 to someone in need.  That's a better use of our collective lifespans than giving 800 million dollars to one person, isn't it?  Maybe use that 800 million dollars to end homelessness in a few American cities, instead of letting one person buy a sports team and a super yacht and make all of their descendents trust fund babies?

The whole exercise is vaguely offensive.  You can't complain about wealth inequality and support this kind thing.

[beltim]

(I've done the math most of the times the powerball has gotten into insane levels, and I haven't yet seen a post-tax expected profitable time to buy a lottery ticket.)

Of course not, and you never will. States don't lose money on lotteries.  The whole point of having a lottery is that it generates revenue, which by definition means it has a negative EV for the players.  Even if you win, you will have made less money than the losers lost and the state pockets the difference minus administrative fees.

No.  On the lottery as a whole, this is true.  On any individual draw, this is not true.

[snogirl]

Just imagine all the money & energy to go see the new Star Wars movie or NFL playoffs. All the over the top merchandising? What's the difference? Helping someone doesn't even take money. Sometimes it is please & thank you. Or just a hug.

[dandarc]

(I've done the math most of the times the powerball has gotten into insane levels, and I haven't yet seen a post-tax expected profitable time to buy a lottery ticket.)

Of course not, and you never will. States don't lose money on lotteries.  The whole point of having a lottery is that it generates revenue, which by definition means it has a negative EV for the players.  Even if you win, you will have made less money than the losers lost and the state pockets the difference minus administrative fees.

All players' EV is very different from a single player's EV.  Because the jackpot rolls over, in theory, if you wait until the jackpot gets big enough, you can have a positive EV.  Heck, state lotteries have been known to run games designed for this, specifically to attract play from 'smart' players that would otherwise deploy their resources elsewhere.

[mjs111]

I've never bought a lottery ticket so was curious: if you buy a lottery ticket how many drawings is it good for?  Just one? Multiple? Say you buy one before Wednesday's night drawing and no winner is picked Wednesday. Is the ticket still good for Saturday's drawing?

Mike

[dandarc]

One drawing only.

[Zikoris]

No. It seems stupid to me. I already have enough money to do pretty much whatever I want. If I want to blow a couple of bucks on something pointless, I get a delicious cold drink.

[sonjak]

I never have (before) but today I bought into an employee pool for the same reason others have mentioned:  The camaraderie and knowing that if they/we win, I don't want to have to be stuck there forever doing the work of everyone who left. 

On a side note, It's fun to dream about what I would do with the money but I actually enjoy doing that more when I don't play/gamble (just look at the signs on the way into work and then daydream) because all I have is the fantasy, none of the dashed hopes and disappointment.  I know we won't win but I will still be a tiny bit disappointed on Thursday when that's confirmed.

[The Guru]

(I've done the math most of the times the powerball has gotten into insane levels, and I haven't yet seen a post-tax expected profitable time to buy a lottery ticket.)

Of course not, and you never will. States don't lose money on lotteries.  The whole point of having a lottery is that it generates revenue, which by definition means it has a negative EV for the players.  Even if you win, you will have made less money than the losers lost and the state pockets the difference minus administrative fees.

Just imagine a world in which 400 million people spent five minutes of their day to give $2 to someone in need.  That's a better use of our collective lifespans than giving 800 million dollars to one person, isn't it?  Maybe use that 800 million dollars to end homelessness in a few American cities, instead of letting one person buy a sports team and a super yacht and make all of their descendents trust fund babies?

The whole exercise is vaguely offensive.  You can't complain about wealth inequality and support this kind thing.

Well said!

[csprof]

(I've done the math most of the times the powerball has gotten into insane levels, and I haven't yet seen a post-tax expected profitable time to buy a lottery ticket.)

Of course not, and you never will. States don't lose money on lotteries.  The whole point of having a lottery is that it generates revenue, which by definition means it has a negative EV for the players.  Even if you win, you will have made less money than the losers lost and the state pockets the difference minus administrative fees.

Just imagine a world in which 400 million people spent five minutes of their day to give $2 to someone in need.  That's a better use of our collective lifespans than giving 800 million dollars to one person, isn't it?  Maybe use that 800 million dollars to end homelessness in a few American cities, instead of letting one person buy a sports team and a super yacht and make all of their descendents trust fund babies?

The whole exercise is vaguely offensive.  You can't complain about wealth inequality and support this kind thing.

Others have noted - the states win on the lottery no matter what;  the payout is a function of the pay-in minus what they keep.  The EV can, in theory, be positive for an individual on a single draw.  It's just that it'd have to be roughly a 2x return in order to not actually be a loss because you're betting with post-tax money but winning pre-tax.

FWIW, I'm 100% with you about finding the lottery offensive.  It's a very regressive tax, in practice, and we don't need more that further increases income inequality in this country.  I'd far prefer we not have it.  But I find it entertaining to do the math on it occasionally, because I *don't* have qualms about the application of statistics to maximizing my own revenue. :)  (I figure it's free entertainment, given that I've never bought a ticket.)

[Skalm]

I haven't bought a ticket and I don't plan to. Lottery winners are so unsafe it's scary. They're sued until they can't breathe, are drowned in sob stories and pleas for help (some fraudulent, some not), and are much more likely to be murdered or have their loved ones murdered. For those who can't manage money, most lottery winners are broke again a few years after winning. I'll stick to working hard and living simple.

[JLee]

I haven't bought a ticket and I don't plan to. Lottery winners are so unsafe it's scary. They're sued until they can't breathe, are drowned in sob stories and pleas for help (some fraudulent, some not), and are much more likely to be murdered or have their loved ones murdered. For those who can't manage money, most lottery winners are broke again a few years after winning. I'll stick to working hard and living simple.

If you run those same statistics from "people who regularly play the lottery" and "people who rarely/never play the lottery" - regardless of winning, how different do you think they'd be?

Most people buying lottery tickets can't manage money well. It's no surprise that they're broke.

There are success stories, too.