Poll

Where are you in your FI Journey?

Working on that debt
8 (3.9%)
$0-100,000
34 (16.4%)
$100,000-250,000
44 (21.3%)
$250,000-500,000
41 (19.8%)
$500,000-750,000
23 (11.1%)
$750,000-1,000,000
16 (7.7%)
$1,000,000+
35 (16.9%)
Already FIREd - at whatever amount worked for you
6 (2.9%)

Total Members Voted: 207

Author Topic: Where are you in your FI journey?  (Read 2034 times)

Jaayse

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Where are you in your FI journey?
« on: April 20, 2017, 07:01:22 AM »
I'm just curious where the majority of the forum falls along the scale. 

For clarity of the poll, just count investment amount and not house equity.  Feel free to explain if you are real estate investing or otherwise how you FIREd.
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Jaayse

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2017, 10:07:38 PM »
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/011216/average-retirement-savings-age-2016.asp

After reading the above article it sums up to the following, the average savings of your age group in America is:

20s - $16,000
30s - $45,000
40s - $63,000
50s - $117,000
60s - $172,000

According to the article, you should be aiming for 6 times your salary by your 60s...  Sadly this is the advice that 'well informed' people can find.

Looking at the above results so far, it seems this forum's average age is somewhere upwards of 100.  So congratulations centenarians!
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Dicey

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2017, 09:19:22 AM »
I always think those reports are bullshit, because they're snapshots, not the big picture.

I'll play. We're FI, I'm RE, DH still works. We have 800k in taxable and tax-deferred investments, including 401ks that we've rolled over from former employers. We have 300k in liquid capital, 'cause we like to flip and BRRR houses. Our home is paid for and Zillow thinks it's worth 1.3M, which is low, but who cares? We own multiple SFH rentals, all with cheap mortgages and strong equity.

DH has a great defined benefit pension plan coming. He also has a small 401k plan at work. It has about $80k in it. If you only look at his 401k balance, at age 55, OMG! The sky is falling! Big picture? We're in Fat City.

Reporting that more and more people are reaching their FIRE goals is simply not newsworthy. Being alarmist drives sheeple straight into the arms of "Financial Services" providers.
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honeybbq

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2017, 11:55:34 AM »
I'm more or less FI but I am not FIRE'd. My number is a lot more than is on this scale. :)

Wise Virgin

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2017, 12:35:44 PM »
I am a new member to the Forum after lurking here several years. I was drawn to create an account by a post in the Off Topic section actually. I never registered before (even though this Forum is very valuable) because I am puzzled as to where I fit in to the Mustachian philosophy.

I'm 52 with a net worth just under $100,000, no debt, a gross income in the range of 54k (US), save 30% of my income, and I do not see myself achieving financial independence or early retirement. My planned retirement age is 70 when Social Security maxes out, my 'stache will perhaps amount to $400,000. I'm not like most of the people here: young, employed in tech, with prospects of ever-increasing wages or skills that are conducive to consulting and part-time gigs. I'm an administrative assistant.

There is a limited amount of time, realistically, for me to retire early. I paid off my debt and started saving at age 46. So many others I see my age haven't started saving at all. Geez.

bigalsmith101

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2017, 05:23:23 PM »
I'm 52 with a net worth just under $100,000, no debt, a gross income in the range of 54k (US), save 30% of my income, and I do not see myself achieving financial independence or early retirement. My planned retirement age is 70 when Social Security maxes out, my 'stache will perhaps amount to $400,000.

If you started an investment account today, and started saving $1k/mo (as your post suggests you could), you'd reach $436k by age 70. If ANY of your current net worth of $100k is in investment accounts, that number could be significantly higher.

It doesn't matter how late you start, only that you find enjoyment from the freedom you are creating. Well done getting started!
I spent the first 6 years of "real" life in a self imposed semi retirement, to secure a lifetime of stories. Now it's time to secure the next lifetime through the badassity of FI.

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Wise Virgin

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2017, 05:41:39 PM »
I'm 52 with a net worth just under $100,000, no debt, a gross income in the range of 54k (US), save 30% of my income, and I do not see myself achieving financial independence or early retirement. My planned retirement age is 70 when Social Security maxes out, my 'stache will perhaps amount to $400,000.

If you started an investment account today, and started saving $1k/mo (as your post suggests you could), you'd reach $436k by age 70. If ANY of your current net worth of $100k is in investment accounts, that number could be significantly higher.

It doesn't matter how late you start, only that you find enjoyment from the freedom you are creating. Well done getting started!
Thanks for the kind words bigalsmith101! Actually all of my net worth except for a couple thousand in savings & checking is in investment accounts. I contribute 12% to a 401(k) with 3% match (all in Vanguard Wellington), max a Health Savings Account (all except for a year's out-of-pocket max is invested in Vanguard Large Value), and max a Roth IRA for $6,500 (VGSLX REIT fund, Global Minimum Volatility, and some more Wellington) every year. I'm pretty happy with the returns so far. I just didn't start very early.

It's not a tragedy, I think I'll be pretty comfortable. In fact, if I don't have to save any more, and don't have expenses of working any more, I might get a raise when I turn 70, haha.

I'm so different from most of the people here that it might be interesting to post a case study and see if you guys can increase my badassity.

chasesfish

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2017, 07:11:57 PM »
Thanks for the poll, its nice to be in this minority!
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lhamo

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2017, 09:25:11 PM »
I'm 52 with a net worth just under $100,000, no debt, a gross income in the range of 54k (US), save 30% of my income, and I do not see myself achieving financial independence or early retirement. My planned retirement age is 70 when Social Security maxes out, my 'stache will perhaps amount to $400,000.

If you started an investment account today, and started saving $1k/mo (as your post suggests you could), you'd reach $436k by age 70. If ANY of your current net worth of $100k is in investment accounts, that number could be significantly higher.

It doesn't matter how late you start, only that you find enjoyment from the freedom you are creating. Well done getting started!
Thanks for the kind words bigalsmith101! Actually all of my net worth except for a couple thousand in savings & checking is in investment accounts. I contribute 12% to a 401(k) with 3% match (all in Vanguard Wellington), max a Health Savings Account (all except for a year's out-of-pocket max is invested in Vanguard Large Value), and max a Roth IRA for $6,500 (VGSLX REIT fund, Global Minimum Volatility, and some more Wellington) every year. I'm pretty happy with the returns so far. I just didn't start very early.

It's not a tragedy, I think I'll be pretty comfortable. In fact, if I don't have to save any more, and don't have expenses of working any more, I might get a raise when I turn 70, haha.

I'm so different from most of the people here that it might be interesting to post a case study and see if you guys can increase my badassity.

Have you read Jim Collins' Stock Series, or the book version (The Simple Guide to Wealth"?     Wellington is a great fund, and often recommended for those in the drawdown phase because it spins off decent dividends (I am considering it  for that reason),but it is pretty conservative for someone who is planning to work for another 20+ years.   You might want to consider putting at least part of your long-term savings into one of the broad stock market indices.   Even if there is a drop in the next 2-10 years, there is still time for a significant rebound.   

I know not everyone is comfortable with a higher level of risk, but if you are planning to be in the market for that long chances are extremely high that a broader index fund will net you significantly better returns.
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JoeBlow

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2017, 11:23:36 PM »
Thanks for the poll, its nice to be in this minority!

Every group in the poll is a minority!

Zikoris

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2017, 11:40:30 PM »
We're at $266,000, which is somewhere between 33% and 38% of our goal, depending when we decide to pull the plug. Hoping to be done within five years, by ages 35 and 33.
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Wise Virgin

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2017, 05:24:13 PM »
I'm 52 with a net worth just under $100,000, no debt, a gross income in the range of 54k (US), save 30% of my income, and I do not see myself achieving financial independence or early retirement. My planned retirement age is 70 when Social Security maxes out, my 'stache will perhaps amount to $400,000.

If you started an investment account today, and started saving $1k/mo (as your post suggests you could), you'd reach $436k by age 70. If ANY of your current net worth of $100k is in investment accounts, that number could be significantly higher.

It doesn't matter how late you start, only that you find enjoyment from the freedom you are creating. Well done getting started!
Thanks for the kind words bigalsmith101! Actually all of my net worth except for a couple thousand in savings & checking is in investment accounts. I contribute 12% to a 401(k) with 3% match (all in Vanguard Wellington), max a Health Savings Account (all except for a year's out-of-pocket max is invested in Vanguard Large Value), and max a Roth IRA for $6,500 (VGSLX REIT fund, Global Minimum Volatility, and some more Wellington) every year. I'm pretty happy with the returns so far. I just didn't start very early.

It's not a tragedy, I think I'll be pretty comfortable. In fact, if I don't have to save any more, and don't have expenses of working any more, I might get a raise when I turn 70, haha.

I'm so different from most of the people here that it might be interesting to post a case study and see if you guys can increase my badassity.

Have you read Jim Collins' Stock Series, or the book version (The Simple Guide to Wealth"?     Wellington is a great fund, and often recommended for those in the drawdown phase because it spins off decent dividends (I am considering it  for that reason),but it is pretty conservative for someone who is planning to work for another 20+ years.   You might want to consider putting at least part of your long-term savings into one of the broad stock market indices.   Even if there is a drop in the next 2-10 years, there is still time for a significant rebound.   

I know not everyone is comfortable with a higher level of risk, but if you are planning to be in the market for that long chances are extremely high that a broader index fund will net you significantly better returns.
I have indeed read some of Mr. Collins' writing and liked it. He writes well and clearly. I don't agree though that broad stock market index funds are a better bet than Wellington. I dislike the functional concept of index funds and do not consider them the inevitably better choice. I own some (e.g. Large Value) because it was the best choice available in the investment vehicle.

I do own some risky investments like REITs because I believe they justify the risk. VGSLX jumps around like a tennis ball. It was down for 11 straight months after I bought it, if I were going to panic and sell I think I probably already would've. It's my most profitable investment so far.

The women in my family are long-lived and healthy, so I need to accept risk for the desired return.

Jaayse

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2017, 01:04:05 AM »
In my opinion is not so important where are you now, but the way you had to come where are you now!...Some people start from a really bad condition, with many debts and no money or time to invest, other have already a consistent budget to start! Their way are totally different, time to success is different and also their goal!
My was to have and income of 5000$/month, but I started from nothing and believe me that it is an enormous result for me!
A friend of mine earn only 1000$/month, but this give him the freedom from loans, another have income of 30000$/month, but his  start with investment of 5000$/month (my goal! ;-)...)
So so different stories and so different value of each! Important to be success, it is possible in our own way.

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Completely agree, everyone has a different goal and different trials and tribulations to get there. 

I applaud anyone who is currently or has been in the debt category because it is not a shame, it is a triumph that they are climbing their way out and will one day be independent.  Taking charge of your future is an admirable quality!

That being said, I think the results of the poll are interesting, looking at the numbers is encouraging to me.  This is pure speculation, but seeing so many people in the 0-250,000 categories and then fewer and fewer from 250,000-1,000,000 seems to show that the journey is much quicker to the pile up of responses at over 1,000,000!!!
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Linda_Norway

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2017, 03:02:44 AM »
I counted the part of the house that we will have after we downsize as planned.

Khanjar

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2017, 03:26:58 AM »
For most Mustachians, whose numbers usually coalesce around the 1 mil mark, the first half of building a stash into the 300-400k range is the hardest slog, due to incomes, age, and lack of savings. Fun fact? If you stopped saving at 400k, and let the stash coast, instead of it taking 8 years to hit 1 mil, it'd take only 6 more years(for a total of 22 years from 0-1 mil, or 14 years after the 400k point).

Hovering at 250k paper assets(home equity 40k estimated), 115k 401k, 35k ROTH, 100k taxable.

(7% used to back out inflation/be conservative)
See below:
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 06:08:44 AM by Khanjar »

Wise Virgin

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2017, 05:12:18 AM »
It's so true, what Khanjar says about the first part of the 'stache being the hardest slog. That was the factor in me deciding to funnel all savings into investment accounts instead of becoming a homeowner. I have less than 18 years to work and earn. The down payment for a house would cripple my capital accumulation right at the beginning when investing has the most effect.

At 52 I just don't have the time left to take on a mortgage and also to build up the 'stache to "escape velocity" so it can grow a meaningful amount on its own. I decided I would rather have the money, and the future compounding power of that money.

If I buy real estate in the future it would have to be a duplex or multi-family, or a storefront with an apartment above it, or similar. It would have to produce income. I couldn't justify buying a house just to live in. My family members are not "stocks and bonds" people and think I'm an idiot for throwing my money away on rent.

Khanjar

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2017, 05:20:15 AM »
It's so true, what Khanjar says about the first part of the 'stache being the hardest slog. That was the factor in me deciding to funnel all savings into investment accounts instead of becoming a homeowner. I have less than 18 years to work and earn. The down payment for a house would cripple my capital accumulation right at the beginning when investing has the most effect.

At 52 I just don't have the time left to take on a mortgage and also to build up the 'stache to "escape velocity" so it can grow a meaningful amount on its own. I decided I would rather have the money, and the future compounding power of that money.

If I buy real estate in the future it would have to be a duplex or multi-family, or a storefront with an apartment above it, or similar. It would have to produce income. I couldn't justify buying a house just to live in. My family members are not "stocks and bonds" people and think I'm an idiot for throwing my money away on rent.

Stocks for the Long Run(Jeremy Seigel), or open up something like cfiresim/firecalc(I prefer Firecalcs graphical display) and explain that those simulators include WW1, WW2, the Great Depression, stagflation, dot com booms and busts, and financial crashes in it's output, and over >20 year time spans the market truly does return ~10%/year(~7% after inflation or so). And that's all investing in "The Market", not in HOT STOCK #21!!! BUY BUY BUY!

Side note, outside of stupidly hot markets, housing returns around inflation to ~2% per year gains. Due to the crash recovery, my house has appreciated between 4%-5% CAGR over the last 4 years. The actual numbers are 214k -> ~250-260k or so for equivalent housing in the area, so that sounds so much bigger with actual home values than the actual CAGR if you calculate it out. I am fairly decent at math but I have never understood how to play with log/ln shit to boot, I just figured that out by plugging in exponents(And I'm here on mustachian forums and investing forums, think of regular people and how hard CAGR, Compound Annual Growth Rates are to understand!).
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 05:35:38 AM by Khanjar »

yachi

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2017, 06:04:24 AM »
Abound 500K, while still carrying maybe 170K in student loan and home mortgage debt.  The majority of the Stache is in retirement accounts, but I have a rental house and a cash stock market account.  Sometimes I wish I had more available outside of retirement accounts so I could buy more rental properties.

Wise Virgin

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2017, 06:22:49 AM »
I'm afraid Khanjar that my "not stocks and bonds" family members would be alienated by Firecalc. It would not "prove" anything to them. Land, houses, good government jobs, and businesses are what they consider wealth; stocks and bonds are The Rich Man's Casino and best avoided.

Math is not my strong suit. Theoretical calculations plugging in x and y values don't convince me or move me to action either, but I can read Benjamin Graham's "The Intelligent Investor" for example and internalize the concepts. I have not read Siegel's "Stocks for the Long Run" yet which you mention but it is on my reading list.

I've owned a house before. I haven't forgotten the random large expenses to keep the thing running, or that I lived with three of the rooms empty because I couldn't afford to furnish them. I'm better off with a known fixed cost that can change no more than once per year (at lease renewal), living in no more space than I actually use, with the option to move and seek a more optimal condition. So far my reasoning has been good and my 'stache is growing itself visibly faster every year; "throwing my money away on rent" is really pretty OK.

Khanjar

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2017, 06:48:51 AM »
Math is not my strong suit. Theoretical calculations plugging in x and y values don't convince me or move me to action either, but I can read Benjamin Graham's "The Intelligent Investor" for example and internalize the concepts.

Internalized concepts are great too! I internalized the "invest from 18-30 beats from 30-retirement" lol, which is the same thing. Also exponentials are frickin awesome, and you want to be "on the right side of an exponential". There's a sci-fi book that started off with humanity on the wrong side of an exponential that I really enjoyed, Seveneves. Highly recommended.

EconDiva

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2017, 07:00:51 AM »
I'm 52 with a net worth just under $100,000, no debt, a gross income in the range of 54k (US), save 30% of my income, and I do not see myself achieving financial independence or early retirement. My planned retirement age is 70 when Social Security maxes out, my 'stache will perhaps amount to $400,000.

If you started an investment account today, and started saving $1k/mo (as your post suggests you could), you'd reach $436k by age 70. If ANY of your current net worth of $100k is in investment accounts, that number could be significantly higher.

It doesn't matter how late you start, only that you find enjoyment from the freedom you are creating. Well done getting started!
Thanks for the kind words bigalsmith101! Actually all of my net worth except for a couple thousand in savings & checking is in investment accounts. I contribute 12% to a 401(k) with 3% match (all in Vanguard Wellington), max a Health Savings Account (all except for a year's out-of-pocket max is invested in Vanguard Large Value), and max a Roth IRA for $6,500 (VGSLX REIT fund, Global Minimum Volatility, and some more Wellington) every year. I'm pretty happy with the returns so far. I just didn't start very early.

It's not a tragedy, I think I'll be pretty comfortable. In fact, if I don't have to save any more, and don't have expenses of working any more, I might get a raise when I turn 70, haha.

I'm so different from most of the people here that it might be interesting to post a case study and see if you guys can increase my badassity.

Thank you for posting and sharing your story.  I would be interested to read your case study if you decide to post one.

EconDiva

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Re: Where are you in your FI journey?
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2017, 07:08:05 AM »
I'm afraid Khanjar that my "not stocks and bonds" family members would be alienated by Firecalc. It would not "prove" anything to them. Land, houses, good government jobs, and businesses are what they consider wealth; stocks and bonds are The Rich Man's Casino and best avoided.

Math is not my strong suit. Theoretical calculations plugging in x and y values don't convince me or move me to action either, but I can read Benjamin Graham's "The Intelligent Investor" for example and internalize the concepts. I have not read Siegel's "Stocks for the Long Run" yet which you mention but it is on my reading list.

I've owned a house before. I haven't forgotten the random large expenses to keep the thing running, or that I lived with three of the rooms empty because I couldn't afford to furnish them. I'm better off with a known fixed cost that can change no more than once per year (at lease renewal), living in no more space than I actually use, with the option to move and seek a more optimal condition. So far my reasoning has been good and my 'stache is growing itself visibly faster every year; "throwing my money away on rent" is really pretty OK.

So you sold the home because it was a better decision financially for you?