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Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: thurston howell iv on October 15, 2013, 10:40:51 AM

Title: What level of education do you have?
Post by: thurston howell iv on October 15, 2013, 10:40:51 AM
I've been perusing the forums and recently noticed a post where there seemed to be a lot of people with advanced degrees. So, I thought it might be fun to take a quick poll of the MMM Community and get a sample of the different levels of education. 
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: Anti-ComplainyPants on October 15, 2013, 12:49:47 PM
Now if only I got paid as much as many others with a high school education... (the mental health field is not one where surplus-income has been available)
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: Watchmaker on October 15, 2013, 01:16:19 PM
I answered Masters as that is my highest completed level, but I am currently pursuing a doctorate.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: kkbmustang on October 15, 2013, 02:34:50 PM
This is an interesting poll. I have a BA, BS, JD and LL.M. in Tax.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: hoodedfalcon on October 15, 2013, 03:00:06 PM
So - all you folks with a JD...which do you check off? I usually call it a professional degree. I guess masters is the next best option, but it doesn't quite fit either...Can we add professional degree to the list?
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: dragoncar on October 15, 2013, 03:05:53 PM
Fake doctorate
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: Simple Abundant Living on October 15, 2013, 03:08:19 PM
So - all you folks with a JD...which do you check off? I usually call it a professional degree. I guess masters is the next best option, but it doesn't quite fit either...Can we add professional degree to the list?

JD = Juris Doctorate
It is considered a professional doctorate.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: NumberJohnny5 on October 15, 2013, 03:10:11 PM
Woohoo, I'm the first "High School Only" vote!

Wife has a postgraduate. Not sure where she would be at on the scale (previous degree was an Associate's, next step up would be Master's).
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: hoodedfalcon on October 15, 2013, 03:14:47 PM
So - all you folks with a JD...which do you check off? I usually call it a professional degree. I guess masters is the next best option, but it doesn't quite fit either...Can we add professional degree to the list?

JD = Juris Doctorate
It is considered a professional doctorate.

Maybe it's just me. I'm not comfortable saying I have a doctorate, even if it's in the name, for purposes of this poll.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: dragoncar on October 15, 2013, 03:17:27 PM
So - all you folks with a JD...which do you check off? I usually call it a professional degree. I guess masters is the next best option, but it doesn't quite fit either...Can we add professional degree to the list?

JD = Juris Doctorate
It is considered a professional doctorate.

Lol, I did check doctorate because, it is technically right.  the best kind of right!

If the poll can be edited, I'd add "professional degree" such as jd And md and allow multiple selection as well.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: dragoncar on October 15, 2013, 03:19:24 PM
So - all you folks with a JD...which do you check off? I usually call it a professional degree. I guess masters is the next best option, but it doesn't quite fit either...Can we add professional degree to the list?

JD = Juris Doctorate
It is considered a professional doctorate.

Maybe it's just me. I'm not comfortable saying I have a doctorate, even if it's in the name, for purposes of this poll.

So what did you choose?  Vocational? :-)
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: totoro on October 15, 2013, 03:25:18 PM
I have a JD and marked masters.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: dragoncar on October 15, 2013, 03:35:05 PM
I have a JD and marked masters.

Eh I already have a real masters, so I figure I can add them together
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: hoodedfalcon on October 15, 2013, 03:42:14 PM
So - all you folks with a JD...which do you check off? I usually call it a professional degree. I guess masters is the next best option, but it doesn't quite fit either...Can we add professional degree to the list?

JD = Juris Doctorate
It is considered a professional doctorate.

Maybe it's just me. I'm not comfortable saying I have a doctorate, even if it's in the name, for purposes of this poll.

So what did you choose?  Vocational? :-)

HA! That is more accurate. I haven't voted yet...
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: sleepyguy on October 15, 2013, 03:46:39 PM
HS only... not one to sit in class... love sports teams though, that's what got me to graduate :)

In HS i was most likely to be a hustler, lol.  Because I skipped class a ton and became very very good at pool :)
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: PeachFuzzInVA on October 15, 2013, 07:35:45 PM
I answered bachelors, but might as well be high school only. My degree isn't required and was never even a concern in the field I'm in. I do, however, earn a higher income than any of my friends who are "doing something with their degree."
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: totoro on October 15, 2013, 07:40:47 PM
I have a JD and marked masters.

Eh I already have a real masters, so I figure I can add them together

Well why not Dr. Dragoncar!  Dr. Totoro has a nice ring...
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: sol on October 15, 2013, 07:52:44 PM
Well why not Dr. Dragoncar!  Dr. Totoro has a nice ring...

I have a legit Ph.D., and even I don't go by Dr.  I think it sounds presumptuous.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: totoro on October 15, 2013, 08:25:08 PM
Well why not Dr. Dragoncar!  Dr. Totoro has a nice ring...

I have a legit Ph.D., and even I don't go by Dr.  I think it sounds presumptuous.

Well, on the internet anything is possible.  I'm a large blue presumptuous magical creature known as "Dr. Totoro" to you.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: dragoncar on October 15, 2013, 08:27:59 PM
Well why not Dr. Dragoncar!  Dr. Totoro has a nice ring...

I have a legit Ph.D., and even I don't go by Dr.  I think it sounds presumptuous.

Well, on the internet anything is possible.  I'm a large blue presumptuous magical creature known as "Dr. Totoro" to you.

It's actually Dr. Agoncar.  I went to school with Dr. Acula.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: KMMK on October 15, 2013, 09:13:28 PM
I'm surprised at the percentage of university/college grads in the poll. I'm not sure what associate is (I'm Canadian), but I am one of the three who put trade school, as I got a 2 year diploma at a technical college. It seems like there is a good possibility of a large income from many trade professions, and not always from a 4 yr degree, so I thought with some of the higher incomes around here there'd be more trades/highschool only. And the reasons I never went to university even 20 years ago were related to my mustachian upbringing/nature. I was debt adverse, frugal (broke), and didn't want to just follow the trend of my peers. I took all the highest level classes at highschool and I'm sure 95% of my classmates went onto university. It just didn't make sense at the time, and I'm glad I went the way I did. I lucked into an easy, well-paid job, because of the college course I picked at 19, plus my innate strengths and work ethnic.

So, it just seems interesting to see most people here took a different approach.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: imustachemystash on October 15, 2013, 09:32:31 PM
In my field (speech pathology) a master's is required to practice.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: Tempe on October 15, 2013, 10:30:38 PM
Vocational 1 year. I have the start on credits for an associates at some point.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: Zikoris on October 15, 2013, 10:31:59 PM
HS... I did a bit of post secondary before realizing that I don't particularly want to work at all. I had about 7K in student loans, paid it back quick, then found decent paying work that's pleasant and mindless enough that I can daydream at work and stockpile cash. Life's good.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: totoro on October 15, 2013, 10:52:07 PM
Well why not Dr. Dragoncar!  Dr. Totoro has a nice ring...

I have a legit Ph.D., and even I don't go by Dr.  I think it sounds presumptuous.

Well, on the internet anything is possible.  I'm a large blue presumptuous magical creature known as "Dr. Totoro" to you.

It's actually Dr. Agoncar.  I went to school with Dr. Acula.

Dr. Seuss would approve.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: expatartist on October 15, 2013, 10:55:42 PM
Bachelors for now, when we up sticks soon to the UK  - a country which offers reasonable qualifications, unlike where I've lived for the past decade - I'll pick up a (free/they pay while I work) postgrad cert to increase my salary/employment options worldwide, and probably a sponsored masters to bump up my salary/visa hireability options for the future.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: Gray Matter on October 16, 2013, 05:38:10 AM
I have a legit Ph.D., and even I don't go by Dr.  I think it sounds presumptuous.

I also have a legit Ph.D. (not to be confused with being a "real doctor," I've been told).  I also don't feel the need to be called "Dr."

I did, however, try to get people to call me "Master" upon completion of my master's degree.  That didn't go over so well.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: thurston howell iv on October 16, 2013, 06:31:48 AM
hey guys,
Sorry for some of the confusion. I did not want to make a super specific poll. Just something that would manage to get a decent sample...

I originally put doctorate to include all doctorate (juris doctorate, doctor of chiropractic, medical doctor, pharmacist, dentist, PH.d.)

I added professional degree to the poll and was thinking of resetting it or redoing it if it can be done better.  All suggestions can be considered. It's nothing super scientific but I can modify it if you guys want but at this point we have 155 responses and not nearly as many posts...

If it will help to clarify and get us a better sample please post up and let me know and I think the controls will let me erase the results and start over...
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: Dr.Vibrissae on October 16, 2013, 08:00:26 AM
I have a DVM, and you can probably guess that I'm used to being called Dr. (heck, even the Mr. calls me Dr., he claims it is better for getting my attention), but I have always thought of it as a professional degree, so that's what I selected.  However, now that I amd pursuing a Ph.D.  I'm toying with the idea of insisting on Dr.Dr. as the title when I'm done. 
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: dragoncar on October 16, 2013, 08:13:18 AM
hey guys,
Sorry for some of the confusion. I did not want to make a super specific poll. Just something that would manage to get a decent sample...

I originally put doctorate to include all doctorate (juris doctorate, doctor of chiropractic, medical doctor, pharmacist, dentist, PH.d.)

I added professional degree to the poll and was thinking of resetting it or redoing it if it can be done better.  All suggestions can be considered. It's nothing super scientific but I can modify it if you guys want but at this point we have 155 responses and not nearly as many posts...

If it will help to clarify and get us a better sample please post up and let me know and I think the controls will let me erase the results and start over...

Hm, doesn't look like I can edit my response.  Anyways, I figured you were trying to get a rough sense of how much education we have, and I have around the same number of years as a PhD.  No guarantee as to quality, however :-P
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: JR on October 16, 2013, 08:26:15 AM
I have an associates and my wife has a masters and professional license.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: thurston howell iv on October 16, 2013, 08:50:29 AM
Hm, doesn't look like I can edit my response.  Anyways, I figured you were trying to get a rough sense of how much education we have, and I have around the same number of years as a PhD.  No guarantee as to quality, however :-P

Yeah, sorry. I f'd it up. I thought lumping all the doctorate degrees would be fine.


Dr.Vibrissae: I like your idea of Dr. Dr.- reminds me of "spies like us"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lge2_H_8IQ
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: jrhampt on October 16, 2013, 09:16:40 AM
Wow, over half of us have graduate degrees, it looks like.

I also tried to get my spouse to call me "Master", but it didn't work.

Dr. Who joke: Why does the Master hate the Doctor?  Academic jealousy.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: Silvie on October 16, 2013, 09:27:51 AM
I have 2 MA degrees, one in Communications and one in Translation Studies (English - Dutch).
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: dragoncar on October 16, 2013, 11:48:17 AM
I also have a participation certificate in yodeling
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: Frankies Girl on October 16, 2013, 01:42:12 PM
I recently discovered a godawful amount of my brownie and girl scout badges that never got sewn onto my sash... and I was in third place for selling total amount of cookies in my state one year, does that count? At least that shows I know how to hustle. :)


I have a BFA and an Associate... guess which one actually was useful in terms of working an actual real live job?

Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: Albert on October 16, 2013, 02:04:29 PM
I have a legit Ph.D., and even I don't go by Dr.  I think it sounds presumptuous.

Neither do I, but in some countries (Germany in particular!) you get special respect/treatment if you do. If you buy airplane tickets from Lufthansa there are three options - Mr, Mrs and Dr. I fly with them a lot, but never actually checked the last option. Probably works best if you also dress formally and/or travel in business class.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: dragoncar on October 16, 2013, 03:02:29 PM
I have a legit Ph.D., and even I don't go by Dr.  I think it sounds presumptuous.

Neither do I, but in some countries (Germany in particular!) you get special respect/treatment if you do. If you buy airplane tickets from Lufthansa there are three options - Mr, Mrs and Dr. I fly with them a lot, but never actually checked the last option. Probably works best if you also dress formally and/or travel in business class.

What kind of treatment?  I don't think you get much in the US (maybe respect, but not like a nicer table or anything)
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: Albert on October 16, 2013, 03:16:54 PM
What kind of treatment?  I don't think you get much in the US (maybe respect, but not like a nicer table or anything)

Respect mostly, but from what I heard also small things like being first in line for a free upgrade, a table reservation in a full restaurant, better rooms in a hotel, nicer customer relations etc. It kind of elevates you socially to the upper class.

By the way the title of Professor is even more influential. In Germany (not necessarily Switzerland) these titles are always used in formal speech. For example Herr Dr. Wittmer (Frau if female) or Herr Professor Wittmer.

Another example is that in German scientific journals even if published in English it's usually written somewhere who is a professor, who just a Dr and who only a student. Americans or Brits don't do that.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: Mazzinator on October 16, 2013, 09:55:29 PM
Me: B.arch & M.arch also, hold my arch license and general contractors cert. Now i wipe poopy butts (sahm) but i did work 8 years in the field and hope/plan to go back to something related.

Hubs has JD, and is in the army (they only paid for his undergrad) Now he has 7 yrs, 9 months and about 2 weeks until he hits 20 and can retire. He can hardly wait :)
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: TygerTung on October 16, 2013, 10:14:15 PM
I'm an aircraft engineer, so I guess I have a vocational education? In New Zealand we call it a trade certificate.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: thurston howell iv on October 17, 2013, 05:38:11 AM
Vocational, at least in my estimation, would be skilled trades (e.g.: carpenter, chef, plumber, electrician, etc...)
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: little_owl on October 17, 2013, 10:05:12 AM
Im surprised the poll skews so high in education level.  Why do you guys think that is?

I have heard from MMM haters that his practices are not possible without a high level of income (we all know they are just being complainypantsy)...but do you think that his message just resonates more with those who are burnt out, well educated, and looking for a higher purpose in life beyond the 40-90 hour+ workweeks??

What say you, MMM followers?
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: dude on October 17, 2013, 10:52:59 AM
Im surprised the poll skews so high in education level.  Why do you guys think that is?

I have heard from MMM haters that his practices are not possible without a high level of income (we all know they are just being complainypantsy)...but do you think that his message just resonates more with those who are burnt out, well educated, and looking for a higher purpose in life beyond the 40-90 hour+ workweeks??

What say you, MMM followers?

Yep.

I mean, who the hell grows up thinking they want to be a lawyer?  I discovered a trove of grade school documents my mother kept in the attic, and in the third grade I specifically said I wanted to be an astronaut.  And I remember lots of other kids wanting to be firemen, baseball players, and perhaps doctors, but nobody that I can recall wanted to be a desk jockey/paper pusher.  But the lure of an "easy" lifestyle -- my carpenter step-dad always said "get a job where you can use your brain and not your back, kid" -- and the remuneration it brings was too much to resist, for varying reasons, not the least of which was status.  I mean, shit, in my family being the first lawyer ever was a BFD.  But the vast majority of law jobs are simply about helping the very rich keep more of their money -- far fewer are about bringing about societal change, or defending the weak/poor/innocent.  Perhaps those jobs are fulfilling, but the majority do not appear to be.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: thurston howell iv on October 17, 2013, 11:40:55 AM
I'm not surprised, having hung around here for a little while. I figured it was up there based on my totally-non-scientific observation that most folks here are well spoken and thoughtful in their responses.  I don't usually get the same vibe from other web boards I frequent.

Additionally, well educated does not always translate into "high level of income".

So, does this mean that we're smart enough to know that we're not making or saving as much as we should and coming here looking for insight, guidance, or inspiration?
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: mgreczyn on October 17, 2013, 12:29:54 PM
I also received over $1 million worth of military training and I have the certificates to prove it.  Yee haw.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: zinnie on October 17, 2013, 01:55:41 PM
I have a Bachelor's. It's all I've ever needed for my field!
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: kolorado on October 17, 2013, 02:14:52 PM
"High School Only" seems like an unfair way to lump everyone in together from those who may have just barely made a high school diploma to those who are lifelong learners with some college or education beyond high school.  There are about 40 MILLION adults in the US who click the "Some College" box. "Some" is more than "High School Only".
I vote "Some College".
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: imbros on October 17, 2013, 02:56:33 PM
Masters.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: Franklin on October 17, 2013, 03:11:43 PM
HS Diploma - Came from a blue collar family with no pattern of higher education.  Hustled since I was 14.  Served 6 years in the military.  Started and sold my first technology company before I was 30.  Working now because I love it.  NONETHELESS - I am still in awe of those with higher educations.  Tip of the hat.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: little_owl on October 17, 2013, 04:22:39 PM
HS Diploma - Came from a blue collar family with no pattern of higher education.  Hustled since I was 14.  Served 6 years in the military.  Started and sold my first technology company before I was 30.  Working now because I love it.  NONETHELESS - I am still in awe of those with higher educations.  Tip of the hat.

You rock.  I think formal education is WAYYY overvalued in the United States.  Hustle and smarts (not education, necessarily) count for a lot, and I'm always worried about parents who are so laser-focused on college.  IT IS NOT THE ONLY WAY!  Very cool journey, Franklin, thanks for sharing that!
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: legacyoneup on October 17, 2013, 08:21:14 PM
So, it just seems interesting to see most people here took a different approach.

Going to college can be a mustachian decision too. The total cost of my 4 year engineering course was 1 months pay for my dad. Not a bad deal at all...
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: Russ on October 17, 2013, 08:38:19 PM
bachelor's (engineering, FWIW)

I learned a lot, but very few of the things I was supposed to. It opened the door to my current awesome job, but I use literally nothing I learned in the mandatory curriculum at work, which makes me question the degree's worth a little. I would do it again though.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: kmm on October 17, 2013, 08:50:07 PM
I have an MA in journalism, which I've never applied in any sort of professional capacity. It was paid for by my employer (I was in PR at the time) and I'm glad to have the advanced degree, but if I had to do it over again I'd get an MBA. I've worked in marketing for the past 6 years and a business degree would be more applicable. But ultimately, I learned on the job.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: dragoncar on October 17, 2013, 09:59:28 PM
bachelor's (engineering, FWIW)

I learned a lot, but very few of the things I was supposed to. It opened the door to my current awesome job, but I use literally nothing I learned in the mandatory curriculum at work, which makes me question the degree's worth a little. I would do it again though.

The degree shows that you can complete arbitrary tasks for four years straight without losing your mind... Perfect engineering credentials :-)
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: RobertBirnie on October 18, 2013, 01:23:10 AM
I sort of like the fact that I'm technically in the "high school only" crowd. Although I'm graduating this fall and only have one class. Been working on a bachelors for almost a decade now off an on.

My wife's a teacher and won't let me come talk to her class, she can just see me saying: "you don't need a bachelors kids! Learn lots on your own! Get a job! I did it!"
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: Adventine on October 18, 2013, 03:52:18 AM
Well why not Dr. Dragoncar!  Dr. Totoro has a nice ring...

I have a legit Ph.D., and even I don't go by Dr.  I think it sounds presumptuous.

Well, on the internet anything is possible.  I'm a large blue presumptuous magical creature known as "Dr. Totoro" to you.

It's actually Dr. Agoncar.  I went to school with Dr. Acula.

Heehee!
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: Franklin on October 18, 2013, 11:26:01 AM
HS Diploma - Came from a blue collar family with no pattern of higher education.  Hustled since I was 14.  Served 6 years in the military.  Started and sold my first technology company before I was 30.  Working now because I love it.  NONETHELESS - I am still in awe of those with higher educations.  Tip of the hat.

You rock.  I think formal education is WAYYY overvalued in the United States.  Hustle and smarts (not education, necessarily) count for a lot, and I'm always worried about parents who are so laser-focused on college.  IT IS NOT THE ONLY WAY!  Very cool journey, Franklin, thanks for sharing that!

Thanks little_owl.  I'm sure you rock too!  As an employer, I have hired smart people with a degree, dumb people with a degree, smart people without a degree, and dumb people without a degree.  But I have only fired dumb people.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: ricric on October 20, 2013, 08:12:02 PM
Trade school certification here (Stenography).  Make more than most of my friends and get to travel for work, take vacations, and ramp up/down my earning potential on my own schedule or not at all.  Wouldn't trade it for the world!

I'm assuming that fits into the "Vocational" box option.
Title: Re: What level of education do you have?
Post by: cats on October 20, 2013, 10:32:02 PM
Im surprised the poll skews so high in education level.  Why do you guys think that is?

I have heard from MMM haters that his practices are not possible without a high level of income (we all know they are just being complainypantsy)...but do you think that his message just resonates more with those who are burnt out, well educated, and looking for a higher purpose in life beyond the 40-90 hour+ workweeks??

What say you, MMM followers?

I know for us (a pair of PhDs), a big part of developing the frugal tendencies WAS being in grad school for 5+ years.  You aren't earning a lot of money, but unlike many "real people" in low-income jobs, you have a lot more free time and flexibility, so there's more potential for figuring out lifehacks or the best ways to reduce spending while maintaining a comfortable standard of living (whereas if you are busting your ass earning $20k/yr while working retail or similar, you're probably a bit shorter on the luxury of time).  Students also tend to get a bit of a societal free pass in terms of conspicuous consumption.  Driving an old car, wearing old clothes, eating rice and beans, delaying kids: you can just chalk it all up to your "student" lifestyle and people won't get onto you as much about how you should just grow up and get an SUV or a fancy phone or whatever.  Also, I would say that at the PhD/aspiring academic level, people do tend to place less value on the usual forms of bling (this is not to say that all aspiring academics are frugal, but that the ways they spend money tend to be less mainstream and often quite individual, so there's not as much pressure to fit in with everyone else via your spending).

Of course, there are also the cases where a lot of education = a lot of debt, thus more incentive to seek out resources such as MMM.  I'm sure there's a certain amount of that here also....