What car or bicycle would you get? Heat of summer, pile of debt.

[Noremak]

Hey folks, question for you.

Financial situation:
Student loan debt: $70k
Approximate monthly income (net): $3,300
Approximate monthly expenses: $1,900

The CAR:
1997 Honda Passport
~230k miles
Bad oil leak
Needs new tires
Only paid $1,000 for it, plus some repairs on top of that.

I'm trying to avoid putting any money into my current vehicle, but feels a bit like a time bomb, waiting for something major to break. The goal is to get rid of it as my primary means of transportation ASAP.

Would like to purchase something in the $4,000 to $5,000 price range to hopefully get something a little more reliable. This would probably take me about 4 months to save for.

My commute is about 10 miles. The highs here this next week are forecast to be 105°F-114°F, which means I'm not TOO excited about being on a bicycle for this, but don't want to be a complainypants.

Questions:
1. I'm considering an electric bicycle, then postponing the vehicle purchase. Does this even make sense? If so, what model would you recommend? Is a $2,000 bicycle justified given my current debt?
2. What vehicle would you recommend? Basically my only requirement is a hatchback or something similar that can haul slightly larger items when needed. I'm looking into something like a used Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix, but completely open to ideas here.
3. Another option is just to fix my current vehicle. It'd probably take $2,000 to get it up to the point where I'd be comfortable hanging onto it for another year. It's old enough that I feel like I'm going to have to just keep replacing things on it though.
3. Anything else I'm missing here?

Thanks for any and all help.

[ketchup]

I'd find the same sort of vehicle I'm looking for right now, actually: A 2007-2010 Hyundai Accent with 80-120k miles on it for $2500-3500.

But first, I'd see what it takes to fix that "bad" oil leak.  Maybe you already know (you mentioned two grand in needed repairs).  Get a second opinion if you've only had one shop look at it.

[aroberson77]

Are you handy at all?  It may be pretty easy to fix that oil leak if you spend a day or two looking around underneath.  Seals and such are cheap its the labor that is expensive.  Youtube and google are your friend if you decide to DIY.

Can you try to carpool with someone?  Maybe you have a friend that works close by or a coworker that drives from far and wouldn't mind making some gas money.  Matrix is ok, lower mileage old honda accord wagon could work as well.  I think it would be hard to find something for 4k that doesn't have crazy miles on it.  I would personally drive the honda till it blows up and just save as much as you can for a new car.

[ketchup]

I think it would be hard to find something for 4k that doesn't have crazy miles on it.

I would disagree wholeheartedly.  There are plenty of cars with less than 100k for under $4,000.  Probably not Honda/Toyota, but still plenty of good cars.

[wordnerd]

A moped or scooter might work for you too. I see some cheap ones on Craigslist periodically.

[Dave1442397]

I wouldn't put any more than a couple of hundred into the Passport. It's a badge-engineered Isuzu Rodeo, and it never got great reviews as a Honda. You've done well to get that many miles on it.

[Noremak]

I'd find the same sort of vehicle I'm looking for right now, actually: A 2007-2010 Hyundai Accent with 80-120k miles on it for $2500-3500.

But first, I'd see what it takes to fix that "bad" oil leak.  Maybe you already know (you mentioned two grand in needed repairs).  Get a second opinion if you've only had one shop look at it.

That's actually something I should look into, getting an actual estimate on the repairs. Also, I'll look into Hyundai, thanks for that.

Are you handy at all?  It may be pretty easy to fix that oil leak if you spend a day or two looking around underneath.  Seals and such are cheap its the labor that is expensive.  Youtube and google are your friend if you decide to DIY.

Can you try to carpool with someone?  Maybe you have a friend that works close by or a coworker that drives from far and wouldn't mind making some gas money.  Matrix is ok, lower mileage old honda accord wagon could work as well.  I think it would be hard to find something for 4k that doesn't have crazy miles on it.  I would personally drive the honda till it blows up and just save as much as you can for a new car.

I am fairly handy, but as near as I can tell, the oil is coming from near the rear seal, and I am not nearly equipped enough for something like that. Carpool would be nice, but my schedule changes day to day, so not much I can do there.

A moped or scooter might work for you too. I see some cheap ones on Craigslist periodically.

This is something I haven't considered, thanks.

[MsPeacock]

Aside from high heat are you subjected to weather than makes it very difficult to use a bike/scooter/etc. and is the 10 mile route safe for bikes? I live 8 miles from work, but I have to be at work NLT 0600 - which means it is dark out most of the year for me. It isn't particularly bike friendly even when light out (I do sometimes ride in when I have a shorter day) and added weather (actual winter, rain, etc.) and biking isn't viable for me most of the time. What is your long-term ability to realistically bike to/from work? Are there lockers or a place you can clean up? DO you have the means to transport a change of clothing, lunch, etc.? (You'll need panniers - a backpack isn't going to cut it when it is 115 outside). Are you accustomed to physical exercise in that heat? Do you need a car for other reasons aside from commuting to work?

I would not, personally, put any more money into your car. It is quite old and very high miles. Craigslist allows you to search by maximum price - which I suggest you do looking for a private sale of something w/ lower miles and reasonably reliability. Do you have any savings? Are you having to finance the purchase or are you waiting until you've saved enough to pay cash?

[aetheldrea]

Don't let next week's weather forecast cause you to flush your financial future down the toilet. If I was in debt, I wouldn't be looking at motorized racing wheelchairs. 10 miles is about the limit that I would ride a regular (non-electric) bike for a commute. You are probably younger and fitter than I am, so you could probably do 10 miles. If not, you need to move closer to your work. So my recommendation is for a regular bike. You can do it. Unleash your inner badass, you'll love it!

[FIREby35]

I know biking is the mantra and I don't disagree. I would say your mind seems to be in a reasonable zone. A reasonable used car in cash, fixing the old beater, electric bike, scooter or bike - these are the choices you should be considering.

Facepunches are reserved for those considering leases, financed used cars, new cars, etcetera.

For my part, I'd get a real estimate on your car. I think it is easy for us to let our minds imagine a problem being bigger than it is. Make sure that is confirmed and not imagined. If the car is in "no more dollars into the car" zone, drive it until it actually dies. You can usually sell it for scrap for a few hundred dollars. Have Uber on your phone for the day it dies.

In the meantime, save cash for a reasonable used vehicle as cheap as you can find while you deal with your debt emergency.

I bought a used, salvage title 2004 Toyota Prius for $3,700 about 4 years ago. It was an amazing wealth building machine. I sold it about six months ago for $2,400. The person who bought it got a good vehicle. I only sold it because I had become "rich." NW ballooned in the 3 years of ownership :)

You can do it!

[mountains_o_mustaches]

I agree with aetheldrea - regular bike would be best given your financial situation - you can get a decent bike off of craigslist for $100-200.  As for the weather I feel you, but I'd say go for it anyways.  This is not from some naive place.  I also live in the desert SW, so am currently regular bike commuting in similar weather (although admittedly my commute is about 1/2 the length of yours).

The morning commute is real easy as it's only around 80 when I ride in.  The afternoon commute is much warmer, but I hydrate all day, change into sports type clothing (my work clothes would make me too uncomfortable in the heat), and liberally apply sunscreen before I head out.  I've come to really enjoy my afternoon commute.  I take it slower and honestly once you get moving the heat is not all that bad.  I don't know if you have public transportation where you live, but you could also consider biking in in the morning when it's cooler and taking the bus all the way or part of the way back.  That would still be cheaper than dropping $2-5k on an e-bike, scooter, or car.

[ketchup]

If the car is in "no more dollars into the car" zone, drive it until it actually dies. You can usually sell it for scrap for a few hundred dollars. Have Uber on your phone for the day it dies.

In the meantime, save cash for a reasonable used vehicle as cheap as you can find while you deal with your debt emergency.

To this I'd add: while saving and "driving until it dies" keep an eye out for deals up to the maximum you're willing to spend at that moment, and if you see something good, snatch it up right away and sell the dying car for $500.  It's a lot easier to find a good car/good deal when you have the luxury of time (even if it's only a few weeks).  If your car dies and you need a new car TODAY or even TOMORROW, that's when we make hasty choices on bad deals or bad cars, especially in the sub-$5k range.  I've seen it done, I've done it myself.  Give yourself breathing room.

[Noremak]

My hours lately have been 2pm till midnight or so. Maybe I just need to swallow my concerns, but I'm not eager about that bike ride. It hit 117 yesterday around 2pm yesterday, and due to the nature of my job, I can't show up fatigued.

Don't let next week's weather forecast cause you to flush your financial future down the toilet. If I was in debt, I wouldn't be looking at motorized racing wheelchairs. 10 miles is about the limit that I would ride a regular (non-electric) bike for a commute. You are probably younger and fitter than I am, so you could probably do 10 miles. If not, you need to move closer to your work. So my recommendation is for a regular bike. You can do it. Unleash your inner badass, you'll love it!

I think you're right, it would be wise to post-pone the motorized racing wheelchairs. Moving closer is something worth considering. Thanks for your thoughts.

I know biking is the mantra and I don't disagree. I would say your mind seems to be in a reasonable zone. A reasonable used car in cash, fixing the old beater, electric bike, scooter or bike - these are the choices you should be considering.

Facepunches are reserved for those considering leases, financed used cars, new cars, etcetera.

For my part, I'd get a real estimate on your car. I think it is easy for us to let our minds imagine a problem being bigger than it is. Make sure that is confirmed and not imagined. If the car is in "no more dollars into the car" zone, drive it until it actually dies. You can usually sell it for scrap for a few hundred dollars. Have Uber on your phone for the day it dies.

In the meantime, save cash for a reasonable used vehicle as cheap as you can find while you deal with your debt emergency.

I bought a used, salvage title 2004 Toyota Prius for $3,700 about 4 years ago. It was an amazing wealth building machine. I sold it about six months ago for $2,400. The person who bought it got a good vehicle. I only sold it because I had become "rich." NW ballooned in the 3 years of ownership :)

You can do it!

Thanks for the encouragement! The car is definitely in the "no more dollars into car" zone. Drove about 6 miles today, and when I came out to my car it had a huge puddle under it. Maybe coolant leaking too? It wasn't oil. Made it home, but I think its days are severely numbered. Time to hit craigslist.

I'm always hesitant about salvaged or rebuilt titles, when is it okay to purchase a vehicle with anything but a clean title?

[FIREby35]

Honestly, I always buy salvage titles. They are cheaper. I look for cars that appear to fit the storyline of totaled due to body damage and were rebuilt. I sucks selling them, but I always buy them :)

We've never had any issues. Doesn't mean we won't or you can't. Just that we haven't.

[SimpleSpartan]

I know biking is the mantra and I don't disagree. I would say your mind seems to be in a reasonable zone. A reasonable used car in cash, fixing the old beater, electric bike, scooter or bike - these are the choices you should be considering.

Facepunches are reserved for those considering leases, financed used cars, new cars, etcetera.

For my part, I'd get a real estimate on your car. I think it is easy for us to let our minds imagine a problem being bigger than it is. Make sure that is confirmed and not imagined. If the car is in "no more dollars into the car" zone, drive it until it actually dies. You can usually sell it for scrap for a few hundred dollars. Have Uber on your phone for the day it dies.

In the meantime, save cash for a reasonable used vehicle as cheap as you can find while you deal with your debt emergency.

I bought a used, salvage title 2004 Toyota Prius for $3,700 about 4 years ago. It was an amazing wealth building machine. I sold it about six months ago for $2,400. The person who bought it got a good vehicle. I only sold it because I had become "rich." NW ballooned in the 3 years of ownership :)

You can do it!

Nice! Did you lease a new range rover?

[FIREby35]

No. I bought a 1991 Mercedes SL300 for $7,000. I've spent another $7,000 on restoration (fancy word for repairs).

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-1991-Mercedes-Benz-SL-Class-300SL-t59479#listing=175641327

(Link is just an example, btw. Not the actual car.)

Rational had to do with it being about 1% of net worth - now 2% after repairs and still having a very high savings rate caused mostly by a large income and formally hardcore (now softening) Mustachian tendencies.

I'll accept face punches as needed.

[SimpleSpartan]

No. I bought a 1991 Mercedes SL300 for $7,000. I've spent another $7,000 on restoration (fancy word for repairs).

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-1991-Mercedes-Benz-SL-Class-300SL-t59479#listing=175641327

(Link is just an example, btw. Not the actual car.)

Rational had to do with it being about 1% of net worth - now 2% after repairs and still having a very high savings rate caused mostly by a large income and formally hardcore (now softening) Mustachian tendencies.

I'll accept face punches as needed.

I'm just giving you a hard time lol. With the amount of time we're in cars for our lives (even mustachians) Mercedes interiors are divine. Nothing wrong with getting one with a comfortable networth, but this being MMM I still gotta give you shit haha.

[FIREby35]

I deserve it!

[Noremak]

A quick update: I secured a small personal loan from a family member (no interest!), giving me $5,000 to play with. I've had a surprisingly hard time finding a used vehicle here with this! I've been searching craigslist almost constantly and what I find most is salvaged titles, people who don't respond, or vehicles that get swiped up. I've started looking at the dealers, but most of them don't have vehicles in the <$5k price range. I thought it'd be easier to buy a $5,000 vehicle with cash than it has been.

What are some other sources to find good used vehicles? I've narrowed my search to:

Pontiac Vibe
Toyota Matrix
Mazda 3 Hatchback
Honda Fit
Scion XA
Scion XD

I've debated looking into sedans because there seems to be a much higher number of them around here, but just can't bring myself to give up the nice storage space of a hatchback.

[Dave1442397]

A quick update: I secured a small personal loan from a family member (no interest!), giving me $5,000 to play with. I've had a surprisingly hard time finding a used vehicle here with this! I've been searching craigslist almost constantly and what I find most is salvaged titles, people who don't respond, or vehicles that get swiped up. I've started looking at the dealers, but most of them don't have vehicles in the <$5k price range. I thought it'd be easier to buy a $5,000 vehicle with cash than it has been.

What are some other sources to find good used vehicles? I've narrowed my search to:

Pontiac Vibe
Toyota Matrix
Mazda 3 Hatchback
Honda Fit
Scion XA
Scion XD

I've debated looking into sedans because there seems to be a much higher number of them around here, but just can't bring myself to give up the nice storage space of a hatchback.

That's a good list.

Keep an eye on cars.com, autotrader.com, ebay motors and local dealer websites as well as craigslist. If you're on Facebook, a lot of people sell cars there in my area. You can also post and ask people to let you know if they have or see what you're looking for.

We still have my FIL's car sitting around, but one of these days I have to make an ad and sell the thing.

[FIREby35]

In 2013 I bought a 2004 Toyota Prius with a salvage title for $3,700. It was an amazing car that had zero issues. It was so cheap to run. Really, I should never have sold it, but that is a different story.

I'd add a Prius to your list.

I'd subtract salvage title as a deal breaker.

[Noremak]

In 2013 I bought a 2004 Toyota Prius with a salvage title for $3,700. It was an amazing car that had zero issues. It was so cheap to run. Really, I should never have sold it, but that is a different story.

I'd add a Prius to your list.

I'd subtract salvage title as a deal breaker.

My biggest hesitation is that the frame is damaged, and potentially affecting the vehicle more than is visible. At the very least, I need to do more research on it.

Regarding the Prius. What does one need to know about the batteries? Any common issues with it? How many miles did yours have?

[FIREby35]

There is a whole thread recently discussing the topic of cheap Prius':

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/the-$3700-prius-experiment/

I would point out that you have two very common concerns. First, hesitation about a salvage title. Second, hesitation about the battery. I think both of those things come from fear of the unknown that you are by default answering in a way that exaggerates the potential problems. That is common and I'm not trying to be dictate the conclusion you eventually come to. I am pointing it out so you can keep going in your analysis to understand the actual real problem instead of stopping with the default conclusion of "insurmountable problem." :)

This issue with salvage title is common to all cars. I can't claim perfect knowledge about all cars with salvage titles. I just know I have always bought cars with salvage titles because they are cheaper and I have, so far, not had any issues and saved a bunch of money.

Sincerely, good luck!

[Noremak]

You are spot on in your diagnosis of "fear of the unknown." Thanks for calling that out, I mean that sincerely. Time to revisit fear setting (http://tim.blog/2017/05/15/fear-setting/)

Also, thanks for pointing out the Prius. They are possibly more available than the other vehicles I've been looking at, and you're right that I would save a ton of money.