Author Topic: Using a childs Roth IRA to structure withdrawals before age 59-1/2?  (Read 2817 times)

mousebandit

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I know that if you have minor children, and they have earned income, you can open a child's Roth IRA for them.  I am thinking this could be another way to structure savings so that it can be withdrawn penalty-free before age 59-1/2. 

If, for example, parents had a small business that paid the child (or children) less than $6100 as income, the parents could open a Roth IRA for the child and contribute $5k per year to it.  Since it's Roth, that amount could be drawn out without penalty or taxes, at any point. 

We have 4 children, so it seems to me that we could potentially structure ourselves to have $30k annually in tax- and penalty-free withdrawals after FIRE, before age 59-1/2 (each parent and each child = 6 * $5k). 

I would think it could be done whether the child was paid as an employee, or as an independent contractor (which sounds easier).  Would have to give more thought to this, but has anyone else done this, or researched it? 

MouseBandit

letired

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I don't know the legalities and niceties, but it seems a bit sketch to me to be taking money that ostensibly belongs to your child?

calimom

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This has tax scam written all over it. In another thread you said you had 3 children in diapers? Are they high earning, television commercial actors? Where is the $6100 per year coming from?

This does not seem viable at all. Move on to another idea.

mousebandit

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Calimom - In another thread, I said that "when I had 3 children in diapers"  -that would have been 2 months after I had a stroke (while 6 months pregnant) and had a preemie newborn, a 12 month old, and a 25-month old, who wasn't yet potty trained.  I also had a 4-yr-old at that time, who was potty trained.  That was almost 4 years ago.

I brought up the under-$6100 figure, because a minor doesn't need to file their own tax return if their income is below that limit.  I could certainly see paying children to help in a family business and earn a small amount of their own money.  BTW, the kids are now 3, 4, 6, and 8, so there's no stretch of imagination that they could help stuff envelopes, pack boxes, all sorts of things.  We live on a rural homestead, and could easily create a small family business involving livestock and farming.  The children DO help with the chores for these activities already, and we do give them allowances for it, so they're already doing "work" and getting "paid."  My older children actually were paid to pose as models a couple of times for a family friend who built playground equipment, so they were earning 1099 income at ages 2 and 4.  This isn't unusual or unethical or anything super far out.

There's simply no need to be snide, or insinuate that I'm not being ethical here.

I'm not trying to create tax scams, I am looking for best way to maximize savings.  It's not at all unheard of for parents to save for a child's future, and then to later pull some or all of the funds out for other reasons.  I don't see anything unethical in that at all.  With a ROTH IRA the contributions are taxed first.  I could see that it might be considered sketchy to make the contributions with the intent to pull them out for family use prior to the child coming of age.  That's one reason I asked here.

Roth IRA money, like all other funds held by minors, would be managed by their parents.  There's nothing unusual about a parent directing how a child allocates their allowance money, birthday money, lemonade stand earnings, or any other funds they might receive.  So much for savings (which is, of course, directed by the parent on when and how that is eventually spent), so much for charity, so much for spending (and again, directed by the parent as to where, when, and on what that is spent). 

I don't believe that there's any assertion that all funds deposited into a child's IRA were earned by the child.  Simply that the child did earn some income (and that if it were more than $6100, they would have a full tax return filed for them), and that there had been contributions to an IRA in their name. 

It might not be the greatest idea in the world, but I'm new to all this tax savings, hacking, churning, and everything else that is discussed here, so please give me the benefit of the doubt, and help me to see what's a good idea, what's gray territory ethically or legally, and be polite.  That's why I asked it here. 

MouseBandit


abhe8

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Yes, all money deposited into an IRA cannot be more then the earned income for the year. To deposit 6100, the child has to earn 6100 in that year.

letired

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No one can contribute more to an IRA than they've earned in a year: https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/plan-participant-employee/retirement-topics-ira-contribution-limits

If you are contributing 5k to a 3yr olds roth ira, they have to have 'earned' that much in that tax year.

mousebandit

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Thanks.  That makes sense, and would certainly limit the effectiveness, even if it was decided to be ethical or okay. 

MouseBandit

Chrissy

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Withdrawals from a custodial ROTH must be used for the benefit of the child (and I think there are specific circumstances), not the custodian's personal gain.  If you can't prove the money is being used that way, you'll generate a 10% penalty.  The CHILD can withdraw the contributions, tax-free, once they are of age.  This is my understanding, anyway.

The children DO help with the chores for these activities already, and we do give them allowances for it, so they're already doing "work" and getting "paid."

There's nothing unusual about a parent directing how a child allocates their allowance money, birthday money, lemonade stand earnings, or any other funds they might receive. 

...the child did earn some income, and that there had been contributions to an IRA in their name

Not "in their name," but "on their behalf".  There's a difference.  Are you really making the kids put some of their allowance into a ROTH, and then putting in additional funds for them yourself?  Or, do you want to contribute only your own money, and CLAIM it's the kids' money if you get caught, because... 

We have 4 children, so it seems to me that we could potentially structure ourselves to have $30k annually in tax- and penalty-free withdrawals after FIRE, before age 59-1/2 (each parent and each child = 6 * $5k).
 
It's not at all unheard of for parents to save for a child's future, and then to later pull some or all of the funds out for other reasons.

Oops.  So, not the kids' money, and not for their individual futures.  Even if it was, I'm not sure any parent would be well-regarded after raiding their kids' lawn-mowing stash for their own retirement.

There's simply no need to be snide, or insinuate that I'm not being ethical here.

Except, if you're not sure something's legal, but you're already planning the LIE you're gonna tell if you get caught, then you're being unethical.  And, here's another complication:  What happens to the growth generated by your funds in the kids' ROTHs?  Please think this through.  Also, Google is your friend. 

I could see that it might be considered sketchy to make the contributions with the intent to pull them out for family use prior to the child coming of age. 

BINGO.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 09:00:06 PM by Chrissy »

mousebandit

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Thanks for the assistance Chrissy.  Got it. 

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!