So some of you might disagree with the whole concept of tithing, which is fine. I think some arguments regarding hastening FI so you can start doing more good have some validity, but I'd rather discuss another issue with those of you who do tithe, or donate to charity in some fashion.
My wife and I have been tithing for a while now. While my wife was in grad school and we were paying for that on one salary, tithing was difficult or at least felt a little sacrificial. Now she's done with school. No more tuition, no more book fees, oh and she now makes more than I do. So while our income more than doubled, our expenses have gone down a notable amount. This has made tithing so easy as to be basically non-noticeable. We are pretty clearly giving "out of our surplus," which makes me just a little uneasy. I'm not chomping at the bit to give till we are in poverty, but I did wonder if any of you who have nice 'staches have wrestled with a similar dilemma? How to balancing striving for FI, while knowing one could give much more?
I hope this didn't come off like a "woe is me, I have too much money" whinyface post. I really am interested in what you all think. Thanks.
I understand your discomfort. On the one hand, if you're giving 10%, you're doing what you're supposed to do; however, the Bible also says "to whom much is given, much will be required". If you're blessed with much, you're expected to use a portion of that for the good of others.
Answers? I don't have that, but I'd say that if you feel uncomfortable, make a change. Perhaps if you're determined to continue squirreling away money for yourself at your current rate, you could look into giving more of your time? That, too, is a gift.
Another great reason not to have an imaginary friend, er, God.
I give a lot of money to charity, but I analyze each charity carefully to ensure that my money is used effectively.
IMHO, it's a better approach than "tithing" a church so that the Pope (or whomever) can buy (yet another) gold plated toilet seat.
But to each his own, if you feel that the hierarchy of the Catholic church, the disciples of Zeus, or Reverend Cleophus (or whatever late night evangelical "send me money now so I can praise Jesus from the back of my new Lear Jet) can spend the money better, by all means send your hard earned money to them.
Praise God (or Gods), or whatever.
Or you can follow me and join the ONE TRUE CHURCH and obey the ONE TRUE RELIGION. All Hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM), the ONE TRUE GOD. Pray that you, too, are touched by his noodly appendage!
BTW, aside from being the ONE TRUE GOD, the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (we are Christians, btw, we realize that the FSM gave his only begotten son yada, yada, yada) does not expect a tithe.
Yeah, that's right, the Church of the FSM is Mustachian.
Pastararianism. It's just as realistic as any other religion, without the BS. Plus, the beer and strippers:
http://www.venganza.org/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/Collander_sm.jpg
All Hail the FSM! Ramen.
That was just plain rude. Does it make you feel good to ridicule things you don't understand?
Nice. As an engineer, I have no harvest, so "God" would not expect me to fund him (and why would he, really? He's God, for God's sake. If he needed the money, he'd have it rain down in a plague of locusts or some such BS, right?)?
Engineers. Every guy I ever dated after high school either was an engineering student or an engineer -- and y'all can be so literal. Yes, you have a "harvest". It comes in the modern form: a paycheck.
Not everyone who practices the tithe gives to someone to purchase a "gold plated toilet seat."
This was in response to comments about the Pope. I'm not Catholic, but I am very impressed with this newest Pope. He seems to be quite middle-class and pro-people.
We tithe. It is very important to us. It helps fund a lot of things. Our money helps pay for our fantastic pastors, maybe a new fence around the playground, to a mission trip that help dig a well in a village. We could tithe more, but then I would be worried about giving more than I'm really comfortable with which I think defeats the purpose.
Yes, I am constantly impressed with how our pastoral staff manage our church funds and how far they stretch that money.
Sunday school was a while ago, but I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't say "keep 90% of your income and follow me".
Actually, Jesus talked about money an awful lot -- not because He was trying to get people to tithe, but because money is a huge stumbling block for many people. If you look at the Bible, you can find examples of both rich men and poor men who were ardent followers of Jesus.
Indeed. It's hard to argue for FI from a scriptural point of view. Many passages ranging from "Store up your wealth in heaven" to the story of the man who planned to build bigger buildings to store his great harvest, but who was going to die the next day. Yet as Jesus travelled, he stayed with people who had homes and were able to provide him and his disciples dinner. Some people were called to give up everything and follow him, others were called to stay with their families and serve those around them.
On the other hand, back then, children took care of their parents when they were old. We have not only moved away from that in our society, but to it being the other way around--parents take care of their kids and grandkids now. The government takes care of the parents.
Ultimately, whether you believe in God or not, you have to answer to your conscience. It sounds like a lot of people here are trying to find a balance in what they give and what they save. At least by being frugal, you can be honest about the balance--your frugality is a sacrifice, for some easier than others, and with that you have more to give. I think though, I'd much rather have the phrase "Give until you're happy" than "Give until it hurts." I think when you see what you're accomplishing in terms of how you're changing people's lives, it's easier to see the right balance that makes everyone happy.
Yes, you can find examples of "store up your treasure in heaven", but you can also read the stories like the one of the master who went away on a journey, leaving each of his three servants with varying amount of talents (an amount of of money). The one who invested and increased his money was rewarded, while the one who buried his in the ground and did nothing with it was called "wicked and evil".
And the oft-quoted Proverbs passage about the ideal woman, who works and earns money, who stores up food and warm clothing so her family will be comfortable. I don't think that passage specifically mentions money, but it clearly says that a good woman is concerned for her family's physical comfort.
And the new testament warning that those who would not work should not eat; this, of course, was aimed at the people who were expecting Christ's return immediately and were sitting out on the hillside watching for his return -- and expecting others to support them.
I totally agree with you when you say that the real question is, How to strike a balance between providing for your family, saving for your own future -- and also providing for those around you who are in real need.
And, yes, it's right to consider that today our elderly are cared for differently.
In my Bible he says this: Away with you, you pettifogging Pharisee lawyers! You give to God a tenth of herbs, like mint, dill, and cumin, but the important duties of the Law judgement, mercy, honesty you have neglected. Yet these you ought to have performed, without neglecting the others.
It started as a Jewish tradition, seems like he endorses it.
So what I'm reading in that passage is, Money alone isn't enough. Your attitude and effort matter just as much. And that's a fairly common theme in the Bible, though I think people outside the church tend to think, "It's all about money".
I'm guessing because they'll have more unstructured/free time in retirement.
I agree, if you aren't doing it now, you probably never will.
But to think you'll give more time at a point when you have more of it isn't totally invalid.
I don't know about the "if you aren't doing it now, you probably never will" comment.
Maybe I think this because I'm approaching a turning point in my life: My youngest is about to finish high school. I've donated huge chunks of my time to various organizations, most dealing with children and teens. And I still believe in those groups, but as my own kids move into adulthood, I feel that I'm kind of "done" with those volunteer gigs . . . and I'm stepping back from some of those responsibilities. I'm anticipating a couple years of "less"; that is, less volunteering, less giving for the remaining years I'm still working -- but, at the same time, I can name a couple different organizations to whom I want to volunteer my time after we're retired.
I suppose I'm saying that my efforts on the part of others is changing as I grow older.