Author Topic: Time to retire...how do I get laid off?  (Read 23037 times)

Captain and Mrs Slow

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Re: Time to retire...how do I get laid off?
« Reply #50 on: September 08, 2014, 09:52:03 AM »
Financial  Samarai wrote a book how to engineer your layoff  I'm usually a sucker for books like that but at 48 bucks it's kind of expensive, but it does  get good reviews elsewhere, might be worth investing in. I've read enough of his blog posts to know that he knows what he's talking about, he too retired early.

if you do please do a review of it

http://www.financialsamurai.com/how-to-make-money-quitting-your-job-2/

Edit, he doesn't suggest doing a poor job so they lay you off


former player

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Re: Time to retire...how do I get laid off?
« Reply #51 on: September 08, 2014, 12:05:01 PM »
It sounds as though OP is in the target group for severance and is in a group which is short of work, so sooner or later I suspect he is likely to be offered it.  His immediate manager is a likely roadblock to it being sooner, as he is protecting his own position by not putting the OP forward for severance.  Perhaps a direct approach to HR might work?

Apart from that, the question is: if the OP wants to go, and can afford to go, is the likely corporate manoeuvering and delay in leaving worth $30,000 to him?  Only he can answer that.

frugaliknowit

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Re: Time to retire...how do I get laid off?
« Reply #52 on: September 08, 2014, 02:00:15 PM »
I know big corps for the most part are slime, but the risk is not worth the uncertain reward.

SummerLovin

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Re: Time to retire...how do I get laid off?
« Reply #53 on: September 08, 2014, 02:26:26 PM »
I know big corps for the most part are slime, but the risk is not worth the uncertain reward.
What risk? Staying a bit longer than he planned? The reward is not uncertain, it's ~30K after taxes.  It's not insignificant, and OP doesn't indicate that he has big plans after he is retired.
This is clearly a decision that has variables that are unique to each of our circumstances, but I don't think it's as big of a moral dilemma as many of the respondents make it out to be. (Aside from the unemployment portion.)

If the question were "how long would you delay retirement for an additional 30K after taxes, assuming you had no immediate plans after retirement?", the answers would be much different.

Dollarbill49

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Re: Time to retire...how do I get laid off?
« Reply #54 on: September 08, 2014, 03:29:09 PM »
Unless your company has plans to do a layoff, I think what you're trying to figure out is "slimy" (sorr, your words, not mine).  What your're trying to get from the government should be for those that truly need it.  At this point, you shouldn't need it.

Keep your reputation in tact and retire gracefully.

And also enjoy it!!

diymark

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Re: Time to retire...how do I get laid off?
« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2014, 03:47:10 PM »
Quote
Unless your company has plans to do a layoff, I think what you're trying to figure out is "slimy" (sorr, your words, not mine).  What your're trying to get from the government should be for those that truly need it.  At this point, you shouldn't need it.

Slimy, yes. Reserved for those that truly need it? In principle I would agree. But why should someone who failed to plan ahead and put money aside for the "rainy day" be more entitled than someone who did the right thing by saving, planning, and preparing for the day they might be without a job??  Seems like providing money to someone who has no money encourages the "don't save" behavior.

RetireAbroadAt35

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Re: Time to retire...how do I get laid off?
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2014, 04:43:50 PM »
Volunteer to take the hit should layoffs become a reality.  I've done it twice myself, without success, but it didn't hurt to ask.

Daisy

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Re: Time to retire...how do I get laid off?
« Reply #57 on: September 08, 2014, 07:22:53 PM »
Quote
Unless your company has plans to do a layoff, I think what you're trying to figure out is "slimy" (sorr, your words, not mine).  What your're trying to get from the government should be for those that truly need it.  At this point, you shouldn't need it.

Slimy, yes. Reserved for those that truly need it? In principle I would agree. But why should someone who failed to plan ahead and put money aside for the "rainy day" be more entitled than someone who did the right thing by saving, planning, and preparing for the day they might be without a job??  Seems like providing money to someone who has no money encourages the "don't save" behavior.

Applying for unemployment insurance is not slimy, people! It's insurance your company was required to get in case they didn't need you any more and it gives you a chance to get back on your feet. There are no need-based requirements for unemployment insurance. It's not a welfare benefit. In fact, the company gets dinged for higher insurance premiums if a lot of their ex-employees take the insurance. It's one of the reasons why companies prefer you to leave on your own instead of laying you off.

I am taking it if I am in that situation. I have money saved up and will probably be borderline FIRE, but I will still apply for jobs. And I'm only borderline FIRE because I've cut my costs. I suppose I could temporarily inflate my lifestyle to something more average to my peers, not meet the 4% SWR, just so that I could tell myself I "need" it, but I won't do that. I will take it and be happy that it's available just for this purpose.

Check this out:

http://www.ehow.com/info_8760535_pays-state-unemployment-insurance.html
Quote
If your employer didn't pay unemployment taxes, you're not eligible for unemployment.

And this:
http://www.employeradvocates.com/faq/who_pays_unemployment_taxes.html
Quote
It is important to understand that it is in the employer's best interests to limit the payment of benefits to former employees.  Failure to limit unnecessary unemployment benefit payments will immediately impact the charges made to a reimbursing employer.  Taxpaying employers will eventually pay a higher rate based upon unnecessary charges, but the increase may not come during the next tax year.  Eventually, cumulative unnecessary unemployment claim charges will push the organization's tax rate up into the next higher tax bracket.

EDIT: Your employer will be tickled pink if you leave without a severance package and unemployment benefits in the case of general cost reductions at the company. That means more money left in the pot for the CEO's golden parachute and the executives' bonuses.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 08:33:45 PM by Daisy »

Primm

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Re: Time to retire...how do I get laid off?
« Reply #58 on: September 08, 2014, 09:08:16 PM »
Meh, be a self respecting adult and don't take handouts you don't need.  These systems are put in place for people who need them, but yes they do get abused.

Edit: And if you are in the US it's not the government who pays it, it will typically be the company you work..unless you work for the government.  Being that way they are much less likely to lay you off.

This.

The company you work for knows exactly what you're entitled to if they fire you. And that will pretty much put you on the bottom of the list. A friend of mine was in a similar situation except that her employer was downsizing. They were offering relatively generous voluntary redundancy packages and she logically applied. They knocked her back because she would be too expensive to let go, so she had to resign the regular way.

Be grateful you are able to retire with your health and wealth intact. There are a hell of a lot of people in the opposite boat.

Villanelle

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Re: Time to retire...how do I get laid off?
« Reply #59 on: September 09, 2014, 09:18:59 AM »
Quote
Unless your company has plans to do a layoff, I think what you're trying to figure out is "slimy" (sorr, your words, not mine).  What your're trying to get from the government should be for those that truly need it.  At this point, you shouldn't need it.

Slimy, yes. Reserved for those that truly need it? In principle I would agree. But why should someone who failed to plan ahead and put money aside for the "rainy day" be more entitled than someone who did the right thing by saving, planning, and preparing for the day they might be without a job??  Seems like providing money to someone who has no money encourages the "don't save" behavior.

Applying for unemployment insurance is not slimy, people! It's insurance your company was required to get in case they didn't need you any more and it gives you a chance to get back on your feet. There are no need-based requirements for unemployment insurance. It's not a welfare benefit. In fact, the company gets dinged for higher insurance premiums if a lot of their ex-employees take the insurance. It's one of the reasons why companies prefer you to leave on your own instead of laying you off.

I am taking it if I am in that situation. I have money saved up and will probably be borderline FIRE, but I will still apply for jobs. And I'm only borderline FIRE because I've cut my costs. I suppose I could temporarily inflate my lifestyle to something more average to my peers, not meet the 4% SWR, just so that I could tell myself I "need" it, but I won't do that. I will take it and be happy that it's available just for this purpose.

Check this out:

http://www.ehow.com/info_8760535_pays-state-unemployment-insurance.html
Quote
If your employer didn't pay unemployment taxes, you're not eligible for unemployment.

And this:
http://www.employeradvocates.com/faq/who_pays_unemployment_taxes.html
Quote
It is important to understand that it is in the employer's best interests to limit the payment of benefits to former employees.  Failure to limit unnecessary unemployment benefit payments will immediately impact the charges made to a reimbursing employer.  Taxpaying employers will eventually pay a higher rate based upon unnecessary charges, but the increase may not come during the next tax year.  Eventually, cumulative unnecessary unemployment claim charges will push the organization's tax rate up into the next higher tax bracket.

EDIT: Your employer will be tickled pink if you leave without a severance package and unemployment benefits in the case of general cost reductions at the company. That means more money left in the pot for the CEO's golden parachute and the executives' bonuses.

It's slimy, and liekly fraud to apply for UI if you have no intention of taking another job.  UI is not intended to be free money for people who quit working. It is meant to tide over those who, through not fault of their own, have lost their jobs and have been unable to find something else.  So yes, in the OP's situation, it is slimy indeed. 

I don't think UI should be treated as a needs-based program.  It's not slimy to apply if you can live without the money but lost your job and haven't found something yet, anymore than it is slimy to accept SSI payments if you don't need that money. But that's not the OP's situation.  He won't be honestly looking for another job, and he will be leaving his job because he wants to.

libertarian4321

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Re: Time to retire...how do I get laid off?
« Reply #60 on: September 14, 2014, 08:33:08 AM »
If your company is laying off, feel free to volunteer.

But don't act like a jackass just to try and fool them into getting rid of you.


Iron Mike Sharpe

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Re: Time to retire...how do I get laid off?
« Reply #61 on: September 14, 2014, 11:37:43 AM »
I wouldn't try to get fired on purpose and I definitely wouldn't try to scam unemployment, BUT...

I think I will be able to retire around age 55-56, maybe earlier if I were to come into an inheritance.  I'm keeping my retirement plans close to me.  But I figure when I am ready to retire, I will ask the corporation if they would want to do a buyout of my services.  Every year they do some kind of layoffs, normally of under-performing employees. I'm a Senior Analyst.  The company could replace me right now with a Junior Analyst and save at least $15K a year.  I assume I'll be a Lead Analyst by the time of retirement and the company would be able to save $25K+ at that time.  Why wouldn't a manager want to save his department that kind of money each year?  That has to be worth some kind of severance package.  When it is time to quit, just have a meeting with your manager, mention you are looking to take a voluntary layoff.  Do NOT mention you are going to retire.  Ask what they will give you if you leave.  If they don't want to give you anything, just thank your manager and leave the meeting.  About a week later, come in on a Monday morning.  Put in your notice for two Fridays from that date.  Tell them you appreciate the opportunity to work there but you are leaving to pursue other opportunities in life.  Do not say retire.  Tell them you are flexible about your leave date and you could actually give the 4-8 weeks to work on a transition plan.  If they are interested, ask them what they are willing to give you to stay on a few weeks longer.  If they still don't want to give you anything, tell them that your last day is in 2 weeks and if you have X days of vacation left, you plan on using them during that 2 weeks.

It never hurts to ask for what you want.   Maybe you wont get a full severance package, but hey if you can get a few weeks severance pay, that is just gravy on top.  But if you can be replaced by a much cheaper worker, managers are under a lot of pressure to keep costs down in the corporate world.  You can probably get some kind of package.

Luck12

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Re: Time to retire...how do I get laid off?
« Reply #62 on: September 14, 2014, 11:55:23 AM »
It is neither slimy nor fraudulent to apply for UI so long as you meet the requirements (fill out some apps, call a few co's, whatever). 

Villanelle

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Re: Time to retire...how do I get laid off?
« Reply #63 on: September 16, 2014, 05:59:42 PM »
It is neither slimy nor fraudulent to apply for UI so long as you meet the requirements (fill out some apps, call a few co's, whatever).

The requirements are not "call a few cos'.  the requirements are to be actively seeking work.  The way you document that you are doing that is by showing them you contacted some employers.  But there is more to the requirement than the phone calls.  You have to be actively looking for work, and willing and able to take it.  So yeah, slimy.

Daisy

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Re: Time to retire...how do I get laid off?
« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2014, 09:27:23 PM »
It is neither slimy nor fraudulent to apply for UI so long as you meet the requirements (fill out some apps, call a few co's, whatever).

The requirements are not "call a few cos'.  the requirements are to be actively seeking work.  The way you document that you are doing that is by showing them you contacted some employers.  But there is more to the requirement than the phone calls.  You have to be actively looking for work, and willing and able to take it.  So yeah, slimy.

Is it slimy if you apply to jobs online and no one responds? That's what happened to me the last time I was unemployed. Online job postings hardly ever get responded to.

Geez...this is insurance you have paid into through your labor. Get over the high-falootingness. It's not even that much money in the big scheme of things.

Of course, if you get an offer and reject it then I think you lose your unemployment insurance benefits.