Author Topic: The beatles Case Study  (Read 263366 times)

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #450 on: January 10, 2017, 02:24:50 PM »
I think the disconnect is in part because he's accustomed to getting into debt and being bailed out, whereas we've been internalizing the "hair-on-fire debt emergency" language.

Beatle: I like to set all the rooms on fire at once every day! And the driveway too! I see big flames, they're exciting, I enjoy them! Sometimes the fire department comes and saves us, but then I can start new fires!

MMMs: NO! Put the matches down now! Connect the hose to the hydrant and start spraying everything down!

The voice of moderation, as perceived by forum members: He can't change all at once! For now, just pick one room in your house that you don't set on fire - you can stop setting fire to the other rooms in a couple months!

Damn you crack me up.

researcher1

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #451 on: January 10, 2017, 02:27:12 PM »
For people here to expect everything to change overnight immediately with updates every hour I think is a bridge too far to ask.

I don't think anyone expects him to change immediately overnight.

However, just TODAY he asked about spending $200 on a "great deal" remote car starter, since there is too much junk littering the garage to park his vehicle inside!!!

I understand this is all completely new to him.  But a grown adult in his financial position, after receiving all of the advice he's been given, still wonders if it is OK to spend $200 on more consumer crap???

Pizzabrewer

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #452 on: January 10, 2017, 02:39:15 PM »
Quote

Ya wanna know what?

I've had enough.

You win.

Bye.

Sigh.

There's no winners and no losers here.  I'm pretty sure everyone wants you to straighten out your financial mess.

You have 2 ways to go.  Start climbing out of your hole or keep digging it deeper.  It's up to you.

If your parents can bail you out indefinitely, well I'd say good for you and your family.  It's not what most here would want to do but if your folks can float your boat, who's to say no?  Other than you??

Good luck.  From your posts I'm pretty sure I live within 10 miles of you.  I'll buy you a beer anytime you want.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 02:41:50 PM by Pizzabrewer »

Cowardly Toaster

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #453 on: January 10, 2017, 02:45:51 PM »
For people here to expect everything to change overnight immediately with updates every hour I think is a bridge too far to ask.

I don't think anyone expects him to change immediately overnight.

However, just TODAY he asked about spending $200 on a "great deal" remote car starter, since there is too much junk littering the garage to park his vehicle inside!!!

I understand this is all completely new to him.  But a grown adult in his financial position, after receiving all of the advice he's been given, still wonders if it is OK to spend $200 on more consumer crap???

I think a lot of Americans, including me at one time, don't understand how small expenses stack up into big ones. As in, they literally don't comprehend the math. It's "only $200!" So it's understandable of him to think this way. I think he's snapping out of it though.

Cranky

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #454 on: January 10, 2017, 02:50:29 PM »
Back to your question on how someone earns so much money, I can't answer for that particular poster, but we earn more than that by being two engineers in a HCOL area. There is a separate thread around here for "what do you do and how much do you earn?" that you might find interesting when you need a little down time.

What type of engineer?

I have two friends. One is an electrical engineer and the other is a software engineer.

Both make under 100k.

It may be our area though.

It does seem to be industry and area dependent - I know loads of engineers, and they make a comfortable living, but no $150,000 each. OTOH, for $500,00 in my area, I would expect to not only get a really, really enormous house, but a couple of serfs to go with it. ;-)

I'm a softy - I don't think you need to sell the kids' little electric cars. (I didn't buy those for my kids, and in retrospect, I might do that if I had it to do over again.) But it does say to me that your kids don't need a lot of "activities" - they should have plenty to do at home.

Also, you should spend some time cleaning your garage.

LadyStache in Baja

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #455 on: January 10, 2017, 02:58:40 PM »
Beatles, I understand the impulse to spend money now to save money later.  I'm guilty of that as well.  Sometimes I'll think, well if I buy this fancy water thermos then I won't have to buy bottled water. There's a million examples like that one, but you get the idea. 

But in your case, we call that an "emergency" (did anyone link to the blog post yet?). An emergency means STOP all extra spending, even dessert and wine, and get out of the emergency.

Anyway, I want you to know that this thread has been inspiring to me!  Thank you for that!  I've loved a lot of the frugal grocery advice, because I can do better there.  And I do buy my kids treats at the store.  Since reading this thread, my husband and I have shifted our shopping around so that I can do it without having to listen to whining and say no a million times and deal with the fall-out.  We're all learning together here!

After all the talk about how your wife needs to step up, I've identified areas that I could step up, and just yesterday I mended my boys' school uniforms!  Yay me!  I've been wanting to mend forever because I know that being frugal with clothes means helping them last longer, but I've just been scared to get started.  You and this thread helped me overcome my inertia, so thank you for that.

I'd love for you to stop by my journal for an example of super frugal living not by choice.  We are waaaay low on the income spectrum, about $20k/year.  Anyway, thanks for the inspiration.  It's a journey, and as others have mentioned, you get good at one thing, and once that's easy, you can move on to the next thing, and before you know it, you're spending waayy less than you earn.

Txtriathlete

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #456 on: January 10, 2017, 03:03:12 PM »
Beatles, I'm really sorry it was my post that put you over the edge.  After reading your follow on posts and rethinking some of what you stated in earlier posts, I can see now that you were only "window shopping" debt free frugal living. I completely understand. It's a big change. I guess in my mind I thought you were further along in the process and ready for action. And I think that was my disconnect between what was being offered and your responses. Somehow I expected you to be more acclimated to the conversation I guess. I can see how coming on here cold turkey would be off putting.  On the other hand, kudos to you for not being a lurker and diving right in.

After you mull over this idea of debt free a bit, I hope you will find a fianancial mentor or coach. Not an investments advisor, but someone who can work with you daily to help you understand the impact of these thousand little paper cut decisions. I've been where you are and in retrospect, I wasn't all that willing to change initially either. it's a big adjustment.

Good luck.

Iplawyer

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #457 on: January 10, 2017, 03:05:05 PM »
Beatles - I actually think that you and your wife need counseling.  You were raised in an affluent family and never lacked for anything and your mother and father have been bailing you out ever since.  You don't know a different life - and you sincerely don't understand why you can't and shouldn't continue to take an early inheritance from your parents. 

On the other hand - I was raised in a family that was poor.  I had to learn early to take care of myself.  I never want to be that poor again.  So my life reflects that in a few notable ways.  First - I would be nothing without the support of the fantastic community wherever I was growing up.  I honor that by allocating 20-40% of our income to charitable giving.  I would be nothing if it weren't for the help and support of many people along the way. I hope that each and every one of them would be proud of me for what I've accomplished and for my deeply held belief that I need to give back.  Second - I don't short shrift the IRS.  I know you cannot get away with it so I don't try - and that goes for all of the other taxes including massive property taxes here in Texas.  Third - we shove money into SEPs, 401Ks, after tax IRAs that got to Roths, etc. We do this so we can have a happy retirement, if there are health insurance options, soon.  Finally - we live on whatever is left.  And we manage to save a little of that too.

I can see that you'll never understand my perspective.  I'll certainly never understand yours.  But we could possibly agree that if after paying for what you have to pay - the IRS, SS, Medicare, State tax, local tax, and property tax - you can only spend what is left and not a cent more.  That is good place to start. 

If you don't embrace this soon - I fear you'll end up like others I've seen inherit a fortune and blow through it a couple of years.  Without some discipline now - you will do the same thing.  Do you want your children feeling the way you feel?  You are teaching them a lifestyle that will result in that.  The solution is within you and your wife's control.  It is like talking to an alcoholic or drug addict.  They cannot imagine life without alcohol or drugs - the fear it within the core of their being.  Your addiction is spending beyond your means and you cannot imagine life without it.  You both have to want to live within in your means for it to work. 

I wish you both good luck.  And I'd like to report on something.  I give up alcohol for a month at least once a year.  For the month of April this year - I'm going to adopt what we think your grocery budget should be for our family for the month.  Its been a long time since I've had to budget shop at the grocery store - so it is going to be hard.  But I'm going to do it to remind me that I can do it.  Most people do it here all of the time. 

I hope you manage to have a good life.  I do hope you resolve to teach your kids financial responsibility and thus freedom. 


The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #458 on: January 10, 2017, 03:06:34 PM »

Sigh.

There's no winners and no losers here.  I'm pretty sure everyone wants you to straighten out your financial mess.

You have 2 ways to go.  Start climbing out of your hole or keep digging it deeper.  It's up to you.

If your parents can bail you out indefinitely, well I'd say good for you and your family.  It's not what most here would want to do but if your folks can float your boat, who's to say no?  Other than you??

Good luck.  From your posts I'm pretty sure I live within 10 miles of you.  I'll buy you a beer anytime you want.

Fairport?

The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #459 on: January 10, 2017, 03:11:46 PM »
Beatles, I'm really sorry it was my post that put you over the edge.  After reading your follow on posts and rethinking some of what you stated in earlier posts, I can see now that you were only "window shopping" debt free frugal living. I completely understand. It's a big change. I guess in my mind I thought you were further along in the process and ready for action. And I think that was my disconnect between what was being offered and your responses. Somehow I expected you to be more acclimated to the conversation I guess. I can see how coming on here cold turkey would be off putting.  On the other hand, kudos to you for not being a lurker and diving right in.

After you mull over this idea of debt free a bit, I hope you will find a fianancial mentor or coach. Not an investments advisor, but someone who can work with you daily to help you understand the impact of these thousand little paper cut decisions. I've been where you are and in retrospect, I wasn't all that willing to change initially either. it's a big adjustment.

Good luck.

I appreciate that.
Thanks.

Pizzabrewer

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #460 on: January 10, 2017, 03:12:14 PM »

Sigh.

There's no winners and no losers here.  I'm pretty sure everyone wants you to straighten out your financial mess.

You have 2 ways to go.  Start climbing out of your hole or keep digging it deeper.  It's up to you.

If your parents can bail you out indefinitely, well I'd say good for you and your family.  It's not what most here would want to do but if your folks can float your boat, who's to say no?  Other than you??

Good luck.  From your posts I'm pretty sure I live within 10 miles of you.  I'll buy you a beer anytime you want.

Fairport?

Nope.  I guess we're further.  Liverpool.

PF Changs and Dave & Busters had me thinking you were at Destiny.  Which is where I work.

RetiredAt63

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #461 on: January 10, 2017, 03:12:52 PM »
Dear Mr. Beatles

I think you thought we all asked you to jump off the end of the dock into deep water instead of wading in the shallows.  Some of us did, some of us suggested getting a toe wet, some of us suggested ankles/knees, etc.  But we may have been somewhat overwhelming as a group.

You seem to think you have a bit of a cash flow problem (as far as I can tell) while we were all seeing hair on fire debt emergency.  Different world views. Since I have heard that the Canada Revenue Agency is nicer to deal with than the IRS, and you have the IRS breathing down your neck, I took you seriously.

I hope you read the MMM Blogs before coming back here.  Mr. MM articulates things very clearly.  He is aiming at fairly high-income readers, but he would certainly put you in that group.  There have been much more frugal forums online than this one.   I hope you lurk and start to see where we were coming from.  I'm sorry your wife never came on, because you are in this as a couple.  I hope she lurks too.

For the record, the most I ever made in a year was $80,000 CAN (which is about $60,450 US at the moment), I went through a prolonged and expensive divorce, and I am financially OK and retired.  So it is certainly doable on a salary well under yours.

The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #462 on: January 10, 2017, 03:22:43 PM »

Sigh.

There's no winners and no losers here.  I'm pretty sure everyone wants you to straighten out your financial mess.

You have 2 ways to go.  Start climbing out of your hole or keep digging it deeper.  It's up to you.

If your parents can bail you out indefinitely, well I'd say good for you and your family.  It's not what most here would want to do but if your folks can float your boat, who's to say no?  Other than you??

Good luck.  From your posts I'm pretty sure I live within 10 miles of you.  I'll buy you a beer anytime you want.

Fairport?

Nope.  I guess we're further.  Liverpool.

PF Changs and Dave & Busters had me thinking you were at Destiny.  Which is where I work.

Still, not far.

I pass you on the way to SU games.

Pizzabrewer

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #463 on: January 10, 2017, 03:24:02 PM »

Sigh.

There's no winners and no losers here.  I'm pretty sure everyone wants you to straighten out your financial mess.

You have 2 ways to go.  Start climbing out of your hole or keep digging it deeper.  It's up to you.

If your parents can bail you out indefinitely, well I'd say good for you and your family.  It's not what most here would want to do but if your folks can float your boat, who's to say no?  Other than you??

Good luck.  From your posts I'm pretty sure I live within 10 miles of you.  I'll buy you a beer anytime you want.

Fairport?

Nope.  I guess we're further.  Liverpool.

PF Changs and Dave & Busters had me thinking you were at Destiny.  Which is where I work.

Still, not far.

I pass you on the way to SU games.

Beer's on me if you want.  For real.

The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #464 on: January 10, 2017, 03:24:34 PM »
Dear Mr. Beatles

I think you thought we all asked you to jump off the end of the dock into deep water instead of wading in the shallows.  Some of us did, some of us suggested getting a toe wet, some of us suggested ankles/knees, etc.  But we may have been somewhat overwhelming as a group.

You seem to think you have a bit of a cash flow problem (as far as I can tell) while we were all seeing hair on fire debt emergency.  Different world views. Since I have heard that the Canada Revenue Agency is nicer to deal with than the IRS, and you have the IRS breathing down your neck, I took you seriously.

I hope you read the MMM Blogs before coming back here.  Mr. MM articulates things very clearly.  He is aiming at fairly high-income readers, but he would certainly put you in that group.  There have been much more frugal forums online than this one.   I hope you lurk and start to see where we were coming from.  I'm sorry your wife never came on, because you are in this as a couple.  I hope she lurks too.

For the record, the most I ever made in a year was $80,000 CAN (which is about $60,450 US at the moment), I went through a prolonged and expensive divorce, and I am financially OK and retired.  So it is certainly doable on a salary well under yours.

To be clear, the facepunches weren't my issue.

Those were fine.

Tough love is fine.

I took exception to be calling a troll when I've been here for several hours each day trying to learn.

Talk to an artist about brush patterns and technique, and they will listen. Tell them that they are a fake and they will punch you.

Sort of like that.

The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #465 on: January 10, 2017, 03:25:20 PM »

Sigh.

There's no winners and no losers here.  I'm pretty sure everyone wants you to straighten out your financial mess.

You have 2 ways to go.  Start climbing out of your hole or keep digging it deeper.  It's up to you.

If your parents can bail you out indefinitely, well I'd say good for you and your family.  It's not what most here would want to do but if your folks can float your boat, who's to say no?  Other than you??

Good luck.  From your posts I'm pretty sure I live within 10 miles of you.  I'll buy you a beer anytime you want.

Fairport?

Nope.  I guess we're further.  Liverpool.

PF Changs and Dave & Busters had me thinking you were at Destiny.  Which is where I work.

Still, not far.

I pass you on the way to SU games.

Beer's on me if you want.  For real.

Next time I head up!

Appreciate the offer.

katscratch

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #466 on: January 10, 2017, 03:38:37 PM »
Here's the post a couple people have referred to - I'm only a few months into this, and I've read it more than once in that time. 

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/18/news-flash-your-debt-is-an-emergency/

LadyMuMu

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #467 on: January 10, 2017, 04:24:55 PM »
I echo the others who say that this thread has alerted me to some slipping back into useless spendy ways. I almost felt like I needed to write a disclaimer on all my grocery posts. See back when we earned $40K per year for a family of four, I was a MUCH more effective homemaker. I made a price book. I meal planned everything. We NEVER went out to eat. We managed to be completely debt free including our house.

About 10 years later we're still debt free but certainly a bit bloated in the food budget. This sort of thing takes constant vigilance. Be gentle with your wife. She's about to have to earn a self-taught masters of home economics with two kids on her hips. It can be fun to be sure, but it's still work. I hope she joins. I'd love to help her out.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #468 on: January 10, 2017, 04:37:54 PM »
I echo the others who say that this thread has alerted me to some slipping back into useless spendy ways. I almost felt like I needed to write a disclaimer on all my grocery posts. See back when we earned $40K per year for a family of four, I was a MUCH more effective homemaker. I made a price book. I meal planned everything. We NEVER went out to eat. We managed to be completely debt free including our house.

About 10 years later we're still debt free but certainly a bit bloated in the food budget. This sort of thing takes constant vigilance. Be gentle with your wife. She's about to have to earn a self-taught masters of home economics with two kids on her hips. It can be fun to be sure, but it's still work. I hope she joins. I'd love to help her out.

Yep, this thread (plus uber frugal month with the frugalwoods) is really inspiring me to redouble my grocery efforts. We're a lot better than we *used to be*- literally half that, but still nowhere near mustachian levels =\

Moustachienne

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #469 on: January 10, 2017, 04:45:31 PM »
Here's the post a couple people have referred to - I'm only a few months into this, and I've read it more than once in that time. 

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/18/news-flash-your-debt-is-an-emergency/

This post is always gold and the Harvard Debt Repayment blog linked at the end of the article is great too.  Think about your Whys, then your Hows, and then your Whats is a great way to define about your values, actions, and outcomes - from his last April 2016 post - https://nomoreharvarddebt.com

NowClear

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #470 on: January 10, 2017, 07:04:18 PM »
like others, i'll commend you for spending so much time in the threads. it's an important first step.

one recommendation i might make is to check out You Need a Budget. it's like mint in that it will help you see where your money is going, but it will also--and more importantly--help you plan where your money should go.

what i like about YNAB is that the budget doesn't judge you if what you really want is a trip to hawaii or 8 million couches. you can make as many budget categories for things as you want. but it does help you see that each dollar can only do one thing: you can spend this dollar on groceries OR you can spend it on paying off debt OR you can spend it on home improvement OR you can save it for a rainy day, but it can't do all of those things.

for me, i used to spend a lot of money on upgrading furniture. i'd see the money in my checking account and then spend it--often to snag a "great deal." then some "unexpected" expense would come up and i'd have no money to cover it, so i'd put it on my credit cards.

when i started YNAB, i made a budget for furniture, and also for debt pay off and the "unexpected" expenses like renters insurance and a few other things I wanted. when i'd go to assign all of my dollars to their jobs i discovered a few things:

  • i actually *didn't* have that much extra to throw around
  • it was easier to decide upfront that i'd spend $100 less on groceries, because that'd mean i could make a bigger debt payment
  • i actually didn't value those furniture upgrades all that much! if i had to decide where the money went ahead of time, it turned out i actually really cared about going to hawaii. so i funneled little bits of extra money there. i haven't bought a new piece of furniture since, but i was able to go to hawaii very quickly after i paid my debts off.

the point is: you do need to change how you think about money. that doesn't mean you have to give up everything you've ever wanted (although the next two years will be necessarily tighter). but you need to (with your wife) decide what *really* matters to you and then make a plan to achieve that. YNAB can help! they also have nice forums and several classes if you want to hear from different (and in some ways, less hardcore) groups of people.

https://www.youneedabudget.com/

Lumberjack

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #471 on: January 10, 2017, 07:05:45 PM »
Here's the post a couple people have referred to - I'm only a few months into this, and I've read it more than once in that time. 

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/18/news-flash-your-debt-is-an-emergency/

Supplemental interview with MMM by the owner of a software company that a lot of MMMers use for budgeting: https://www.youneedabudget.com/jesse-and-mr-money-mustache-part-2-your-debt-is-a-swarm-of-killer-bees-cove/

RetiredAt63

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #472 on: January 10, 2017, 07:14:27 PM »
You might also enjoy the blogs by Mr. MM's friend Frugal Toque.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/category/mr-frugal-toque/

PS  One (2?) people wondered if you were trolling, the vast vast majority were supportive.  Stick around and join us in financial freedom and general badassity.

sonjak

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #473 on: January 10, 2017, 08:26:19 PM »
Beatles, I'm doing the Uber Frugal challenge this month.  I checked out the book "The $1,000 Challenge" from the library for some tips and inspiration.  I think it might be great for you as it seems to have a lot of the more "middle of the road" suggestions that will help you and your wife stretch but not feel so overwhelmed or confused by what is suggested.  He does a good job of explaining why for everything and has a sense of humor I think you would appreciate (based on your "sell the dog" joke).

If you're open to any additional feedback: I would comment that many of your posts are very brief and do not address the questions that were asked (in some cases repeatedly and by several posters).  I wondered if you were capable of writing a more in-depth post.  (I know many people aren't and shouldn't be criticized for it.)  But then you did write a long post to defend yourself, which means you can.  So, my suggestion, if you are open to it and want to continue to dialogue here, would be to write a little more thoroughly in answer to questions or to explain your goals or steps you have taken.  I think it will leave less confusion or questions on the part of people who are genuinely trying to help you.

************************

I agree with so many other posters in thanking everyone for the all the comments.  This thread has been really motivational and interesting for me to read.  So many good suggestions.  As Bracken_Joy said, more fire in the belly to up the grocery budget game.  Although I already do most of my cooking, and buy very few things packaged, there are more things I could address, for sure.  Inspired by all the homemaking by 1967mama, I enjoyed the mirror shard story by LadyStache and the power of contentment with what you have and the ways that many folks have made due or re purposed items (like pbkmaine's dining/sleeping area conversion) they've acquired to achieve high levels of savings. 

aceyou

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #474 on: January 10, 2017, 08:38:12 PM »

This is actually part of the reason why my wife says  it's hard to keep our grocery budget down.

She doesn't let them sit in front of the TV, they're always out doing things which creates 2 problems.

1) She packs snacks, but they run out and then are hungry.

2) She's gone all day doing activities with them, which gives no time (and energy) for making food.


Your wife can solve #2 with one change.  She shouldn't be out ALL day doing activities with the kids...cooking/baking/putting together the food beforehand a PART OF THE ACTIVITY, and it's the funnest part.  Once they are 2 years old, there's something they can do.  Heck, my 20 month old will "help" me stir and pour things and she'll throw things in the trash for me, haha!  I cook with her just about every single day, as well as my 4 year old.

This is a multiplier effect too...and it goes WAY beyond the money.  Your children will be learning very valuable skills.  Cooking teaches math and art.  There's often reading involved/critical thinking skills/conversions/logic.  As they grow, they will learn where food comes from, how to optimize for nutrition, calories, and your budget at the same time.  Also, you play music, so it's a time to dance and sing and laugh. 

Join the party!

BlueHouse

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #475 on: January 10, 2017, 09:13:14 PM »

Not to make excuses (dont facepunch me!)

But...

I bet most people on this site have very large incomes that make this easier.

There are also a lot of people here who didn't have supportive parents or who had very bad or abusive childhoods or who are disabled.  Would you trade any of those scenarios for a high income?  We all have our crosses to bear and we never know what the other person has had to deal with to get where they are.  This group tends to look at the bright side of things and we tend to see the good in all the hurdles we've run through (what doesn't kill us, makes us stronger). 

I do hope you stick around;  What you learn can make a huge difference in stopping the stress regarding finances. 

You've been given a boatload of reading suggestions!  I'm three years in and I'm still not caught up with all the "must-reads".   Some of them are just so old, I can't imagine that there's anything in them that isn't paraphrased in these forums somewhere.  Maybe I'll get there and maybe I won't. 

And to the poster who has suggested the same reading material many multiple times in this thread -- it's been THREE DAYS.  Give the guy a chance!  Sheesh, he probably doesn't even have a library card yet!


Noodle

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #476 on: January 10, 2017, 09:26:44 PM »
One question I have not seen asked yet--how experienced at cooking are you and especially your wife? There's no point telling you to make your own bread and yogurt from scratch right now if you're at the "boil pasta, add sauce" level. There are still ways to cook and shop more efficiently, but I would give different advice depending on the experience level.


1967mama

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #477 on: January 10, 2017, 10:28:35 PM »
One question I have not seen asked yet--how experienced at cooking are you and especially your wife? There's no point telling you to make your own bread and yogurt from scratch right now if you're at the "boil pasta, add sauce" level. There are still ways to cook and shop more efficiently, but I would give different advice depending on the experience level.



+1 to this! Great question! You can only start from where you are, right?

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marty998

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #478 on: January 10, 2017, 11:45:56 PM »
One question I have not seen asked yet--how experienced at cooking are you and especially your wife? There's no point telling you to make your own bread and yogurt from scratch right now if you're at the "boil pasta, add sauce" level. There are still ways to cook and shop more efficiently, but I would give different advice depending on the experience level.

I'm embarrassed now because I'm at that stage!

Do I have to make the pasta and sauce myself from elemental ingredients or is it acceptable to buy the pasta and sauce and just toss it in the saucepan?

Quidnon?

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #479 on: January 11, 2017, 01:13:36 AM »
One question I have not seen asked yet--how experienced at cooking are you and especially your wife? There's no point telling you to make your own bread and yogurt from scratch right now if you're at the "boil pasta, add sauce" level. There are still ways to cook and shop more efficiently, but I would give different advice depending on the experience level.

I'm embarrassed now because I'm at that stage!

Do I have to make the pasta and sauce myself from elemental ingredients or is it acceptable to buy the pasta and sauce and just toss it in the saucepan?

The latter, because there is no economic advantage to making pasta from scratch.  The machines that make pasta do it too well for any homemaker to compete.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #480 on: January 11, 2017, 01:47:02 AM »
One question I have not seen asked yet--how experienced at cooking are you and especially your wife? There's no point telling you to make your own bread and yogurt from scratch right now if you're at the "boil pasta, add sauce" level. There are still ways to cook and shop more efficiently, but I would give different advice depending on the experience level.

I'm embarrassed now because I'm at that stage!

Do I have to make the pasta and sauce myself from elemental ingredients or is it acceptable to buy the pasta and sauce and just toss it in the saucepan?

The latter, because there is no economic advantage to making pasta from scratch.  The machines that make pasta do it too well for any homemaker to compete.

No economic advantage, but there are other advantages. Taste, texture, satisfaction at hard work, pleasure at learning a new skill, and pride in feeding people an amazing pasta dish with just half a dozen ingredients.

I make it from scratch a couple of dozen times a year. I once hand-made tortellini for 14 guests for my own birthday...

Anyway Marty, my machine is here if you want it. (I say this knowing you will never take me up on it!)

marty998

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #481 on: January 11, 2017, 02:05:36 AM »
One question I have not seen asked yet--how experienced at cooking are you and especially your wife? There's no point telling you to make your own bread and yogurt from scratch right now if you're at the "boil pasta, add sauce" level. There are still ways to cook and shop more efficiently, but I would give different advice depending on the experience level.

I'm embarrassed now because I'm at that stage!

Do I have to make the pasta and sauce myself from elemental ingredients or is it acceptable to buy the pasta and sauce and just toss it in the saucepan?

The latter, because there is no economic advantage to making pasta from scratch.  The machines that make pasta do it too well for any homemaker to compete.

Yes... but I am trying to take note of all the added sugar and salt warnings that are permeating this thread. If you make it yourself you can control exactly what goes in it.

Trifle

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #482 on: January 11, 2017, 04:02:45 AM »

I never learned to cook as a kid.  I lived pretty much from prepackaged food and eating out.  When I turned 30, a friend of mine gave me a good pie plate, a dozen eggs, some vegetables, some cheese, and a little carton of cream.  She came over to my house and showed me how to make a quiche.  It was easy and forgiving (you pour the ingredients in the pie shell and bake.  Five minutes more or less in the oven won't ruin it).   I started making it once a week for dinner, with various meat and vegetables in it.  From there I got the confidence to try other things like soups and stir fries.   Best birthday gift ever.

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #483 on: January 11, 2017, 06:02:31 AM »
We racked it back up because we bought a new house.
No, not really.  You racked it up because you had to have everything in that house shiny and new and perfect, and so you bought moldings and new sofas when you could have made done with some paint and craigslist for furniture.


Beatles, here's some perspective for you.  The only debt we have is a 30k mortgage (0% interest loan from grandma which we are paying back monthly).  Even still, we don't own a couch because we don't have the money!  Or we do have the money, but we are choosing to spend that money on our investments, not our current comfort. 

I'm posting a picture of our "family room".  It's in quotes, because we (a family of SIX) don't even have a living room.  We have a kitchen and a bedroom.  In our kitchen is a hard-bench picnic table.  It serves as our table and also as our "couch" in the evenings when we watch tv. 

If you look carefully up on the shelf to the left is our TV, the SMALLEST (and cheapest) one they had at the store.  We use it with a chromecast ($30 bucks) to watch Netflix ($10/month).  We have no other cable other than that. 

We sit on our picnic table bench, lean back against the wall, and put our feet up on the bench.  What luxury!  But hey, learning to be a frugal god feels better than drowning in debt.  Learning to MAKE DO feels good, like the way you feel after a hard workout.

And, when our butts get tired from being on the hard bench at night, then guess what, that means it's time to stop watching TV (waste of time anyway) and GO TO BED, not look into buying a couch.

Wowzer.

I think my kids would revolt!
Not really.  Kids under the age of six can't really revolt.  YOU are the boss of the kids, remember?  At the most, they can pout for a few days, at most.  And as adults, you can just wait out the pouting.  Really, just don't back down.
Personally, I would just eliminate tv altogether for a couple of years, then they might truly enjoy an occasional show.  I did this with my kids, and they totally aced school (and athletics. and music).  I realize this might be too hardcore even for the MMM crowd, but just saying.

LadyStache rocks.

It doesn't really feel like were the boss all the time.

That sounds like how you feel about money, too. Guess what? Not only are you the boss, your family needs you (plural, including your wife) to be the boss.

OK, so now you really need to read Janet Lansbury.  I'll give you a quick summary.  Kids need you to be in charge and need to know that their emotions are ok.  When they have a tantrum, they need to know that it doesn't phase you (even though it might be driving you nuts), because you're in charge.  If you start bending over backwards for every whim ("no, I want my milk in the blue cup") then that's scary for them because it means they're in charge, and they know they don't know what they're doing.  Get it?

So when they say "no i want my milk in the blue cup" you say, "you can have it in this red cup I've already poured or you can have no milk".  they might scream and throw a fit.  You say, "wow, you're really upset" (say this with empathy), and then take the milk away and put it in the fridge for later. 

If they keep screaming, you just ignore them and go about your day.  If they start hurting things you say, "you're very angry, but I won't let you hit things.  I'm going to hold your arms and keep us safe until you can stop hitting".  You might also add "It's ok to be angry but it's not ok to hit.  You can hit this pillow if you'd like". 

This is getting long, and I'm supposed to be cleaning the kitchen. 

Basically, its ok for kids to be upset.  Internalize that.  It's ok for my kid to be upset.  It's ok for her to experience anger.  Frustration.  Even sadness.  It's ok.  I'm going to let her experience this emotion while I set the limit.
  Great post.  My little two year old girl just turned three.  She is a cute little doll, but, being from a home of all boys, and having had all boys (three boys, and she is the only girl), I was not prepared for the emotions a little girl brings and all the whining and crying.  Your example, the blue cup or the red cup, is a good one.  I give her the choice you said, except I stopped ignoring her tantrums.  I got tired of listening to her screaming, so I started offering her a choice there, too.  She can stop it, or she can go to her room until she is done.

At first, I had to carry her to her room, set her on the bed, and close the door.  The first time, she opened the door and came out screaming, and I set her back on the bed and told her not to come out until she was done screaming.  She would scream even louder hoping to get attention and be given permission to leave her room still crying.   After a few times, I did not even need to carry her in there anymore. She would walk in there herself, cry for a while, then ask, "Daddy, can I come out?"

"Sure, honey, if you are done screaming, go ahead!"

She would come out laughing and playing like nothing had happened.

Lately she seems to prefer sucking it up and sniffling a little bit to going to her room.

It has lead to better behavior in other places, too, like church.

My wife has been pleased with the result.

It is ok for kids to be upset, but my entire family of six need not be held hostage to screaming for several minutes with no conversation able to take place because we selected the wrong color cup (which is not really true, had we selected the one, she would have demanded the other).

Laura33

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #484 on: January 11, 2017, 06:58:30 AM »
Not to make excuses (dont facepunch me!)

But...

The income talk should probably be had.

Because there are at least 4 people (2 posters and their spouse) in just the last 10 posts or so, that make over $300k per year.

So they can save 80% and STILL make what I make lol.

Big difference there.

I bet most people on this site have very large incomes that make this easier.

I have to say, this sounds like me with my weight.  Because, you know, there are a bunch of people with these awesome metabolisms, who don't have desk jobs where they sit all day, who (like my DH) just look at a barbell and pop out muscle, and and and and and. . . .

But that's not me.  I have a 50-yr-old metabolism, a crappy thyroid, and a desk job.  That means I have to work harder to achieve what comes easily to some people.  It's not fair.  But it is what it is.  I can choose to feel sorry for myself, or I can dive in and do something about it.  And I am the one who gets to live with the consequences of both choices.  So, really, it's up to me to decide whether I want to be healthy and (I hope) stick around for a long time and enjoy grandkids and retirement, or whether I want to crack open the Doritos and sink into my recliner and probably keel over in a decade.

FWIW, we do have large incomes now, but I started out at $52K.  But unlike you, I grew up poor and so already had a pretty good frugality muscle (nothing like taking a calculator to the grocery store at 9 yrs old to make sure we didn't outspend our Food Stamps).  And I also had the advantage of knowing that no one was going to bail me out if I screwed it up.  So I bought a condo, paid off $9500 in student loans, paid off a $14K car, and set up an emergency fund and IRA, all in 2 years.  Because I flat-out didn't feel "safe" with all that debt and no savings -- I didn't feel like I could breathe until I had a fat bank account.  You obviously grew up very differently, and so of course you don't feel that same fear of debt, that same drive to save, that I do.  But it is that mental drive, that habit of saving first, that has put me where I am today; the high incomes that came along later just gave me more tools to work with.

One more thing for you to mull over:  you are used to being able to have what you want.  You grew up with an expectation of a certain lifestyle, you make a good income, and so it seems natural that you should be able to have everything you want.  You may even see "being able to buy what I want" as a marker of success, and so the thought of cutting back may be painful.  But, (a), no one gets everything they want.  Heck, I want a Porsche 911 cabriolet 4S turbo -- but I want to put my kids through college and retire more.  So we chose not to buy motorized toy vehicles (for us OR the kids), but they both have six-figure college funds. 

And (b), just because someone will lend you money to buy something, or because you can fit a payment into your monthly budget, doesn't mean you can "afford" it (I'm sure the Porsche dealer would be more than happy to lend me as much as I wanted to borrow).  Even your salary can't cover a big home with all-new furniture and two cars and a SAH wife and lots of eating out -- you could make double what you make now and *still* "need" more (please read "The Millionaire Next Door" on lifestyle creep!).  Everyone has to make choices.  You are making choices now, even if you're not aware of it -- you have just been choosing your immediate wants over your future needs, which is an awesome way to wind up 50 and broke and wondering what you worked so hard for all those years.  So I hope you spend the next week or so really thinking about what your long-term priorities are and finding a way to plan those into your current budget -- maybe not right away, because your hair is totally on fire and you need to dump the debt, but next year, after you've kicked the spending and the debt to the curb.  You need to find a way to give Future You a voice at the table. 

Best of luck.

Jakejake

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #485 on: January 11, 2017, 07:47:03 AM »
Something I haven't seen addressed here: Somehow you found out the remote car starter was on sale. What was the source of that information? Why do you know that, if you weren't actively looking to spend money on something when you discovered the sale?

and of course the followup questions:
Can you remove that marketing stream from your life?
How many other pieces of consumer marketing can you remove from your life?

RetiredAt63

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #486 on: January 11, 2017, 08:10:52 AM »
Something I haven't seen addressed here: Somehow you found out the remote car starter was on sale. What was the source of that information? Why do you know that, if you weren't actively looking to spend money on something when you discovered the sale?

and of course the followup questions:
Can you remove that marketing stream from your life?
How many other pieces of consumer marketing can you remove from your life?

JakeJake, good point.  When I was a poor broke grad student, I never ever looked at the advertising inserts in the paper, because I could always find things I "needed" and I had no money.  Even now any paper advertising I get goes straight into recycling.*  One of the side benefits of MMM's cut the cable move is that if TV is mostly out of your life, so are all the ads. 

*Unless I have already identified a need - if my rake is broken, for example, I will pull out hardware store ads to see what they have.

The beatles

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #487 on: January 11, 2017, 08:28:09 AM »
Something I haven't seen addressed here: Somehow you found out the remote car starter was on sale. What was the source of that information? Why do you know that, if you weren't actively looking to spend money on something when you discovered the sale?

and of course the followup questions:
Can you remove that marketing stream from your life?
How many other pieces of consumer marketing can you remove from your life?

Radio commercial.

nessness

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #488 on: January 11, 2017, 08:37:05 AM »
One question I have not seen asked yet--how experienced at cooking are you and especially your wife? There's no point telling you to make your own bread and yogurt from scratch right now if you're at the "boil pasta, add sauce" level. There are still ways to cook and shop more efficiently, but I would give different advice depending on the experience level.

I'm embarrassed now because I'm at that stage!

Do I have to make the pasta and sauce myself from elemental ingredients or is it acceptable to buy the pasta and sauce and just toss it in the saucepan?
There's nothing wrong with pasta with jarred sauce for an occasional quick meal, but if that's your entire repertoire you're going to get bored quickly, plus it's not that nutritionally balanced.

If you're looking to branch out I would highly recommend Budget Bytes - simple, affordable recipes, most of which are suitable for beginners.

Jakejake

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #489 on: January 11, 2017, 09:08:04 AM »
Pasta with jarred sauce is not so different from the stuff I was suggesting. Sometimes we hear "make from scratch" and get intimidated, but it's really no big thing once you do it. Compare boxed pasta/store bought sauce to homemade yogurt:

1. Boil water (check occasionally to see when it's boiling)
2. Add pasta
3. Check periodically til pasta is done (or use timer)
4. Strain water out
5. Add jar of sauce, stir til hot

vs.
1. Heat milk to 165-180 degrees, stir occasionally.
2. Take off heat and ignore while you eat dinner (or til it cools to  below 110 degrees)
3. Stir in a small container of plain yogurt
4. Put someplace warm overnight. Bottom shelf of a gas oven that has a pilot light is one option.

Both recipes are just heat one thing, then add one other thing, and somewhere in there you stir a bit. One pot, no measuring.

Most people use a thermometer for making yogurt, but that's not even necessary if you don't own one. If you can recognize boiling water, you can recognize milk that's got teeny tiny bubbles around the edges of the pot - that's the target heat. Then cool til it feels warm and cozy but not hot to put your hands flat around the outside of the pot.


Mmm_Donuts

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #490 on: January 11, 2017, 09:10:13 AM »
You can totally do this. You can get debt-free and you can get back in control of your life. This is the way I would tackle things with your 3, 6, 12 month goal markers.

3-Month Goals:
  • Put rental house on the market. You can give a roof credit at closing instead of worrying about that now.
  • Sell car and buy something for under $5000
  • Sit down with your wife and make a budget. In this situation, I think you two going to Financial Peace University from Dave Ramsey would be absolutely a good idea. It will put all your cards on the table and help you two create a reasonable spending plan. This plan doesn't work without you two being a united front and deciding that you don't want to live on the edge anymore.
  • Cut up all you credit cards except for maybe (MAYBE) one card. Do not put any more purchases on credit card. Pay for everything on debit or cash. I'd even consider getting your grocery money in cash and once it's gone, it's gone.
  • Cut out all eating out. I left you $30/month for the very rare unplanned need to go through the drive through with the kids. But no restaurants.
  • Cut the massage and the cameras. Get your Groceries below $600
  • Go through your house and sell enough things to get your emergency fund of cash up to $2000

6-Month Goals:
  • Sell the rental house and pay off the property taxes and the IRS
  • Use your $605 cashflow to pay off the credit cards. I'd probably do a mixture of snowball/avalanche: CC1, CC3, CC6, CC5, CC4, Furniture Loan, CC7, CC2. Each time you pay off a new card, take the payment from that paid off card and roll it forward to pay off the next one more quickly. Within 6 months you should have it whittled down to just the Furniture Loan, CC7 and CC2 and you would have about $900/month at that point to keep throwing at the cards.

12-Month Goals:
  • By February 1, 2018, you could be down to only the 30k debt owed to your parents and about $1500/month in cashflow.
  • Talk to your parents about a payment plan for the 30k. If they really are not looking to give you interest, then I'd tell them your plan now about when you will be able to start paying them back and at what pace. If it were me, I'd see about doing $1000/month to parents and put $500/month in savings until you get a decent 3 month emergency fund, maybe $10k. Then I'd put all $1500 toward the loan with the parents until its gone.
  • Start planning for how you will save after you're debt-free. Maybe allow yourself some small rewards once you pay off all except the parent's loan and then once you are totally debt free. My husband and I did a steak dinner at the fancy restaurant in town after we got debt-free and it was the best steak I've ever had.
  • Don't let up! Keep optimizing your budget, looking for things to sell or extra jobs you can pick up (dog sitting or your wife watching a kid every once in awhile). Keep talking about where you want to be in 10 years and what you want retirement to look like. Don't let your spending creep up.


NEW PLAN (these numbers reflect after the rental is sold)
TAKE-HOME Income without Rental: $3875
Monthyly cashflow to put towards debt with spending below: $605

Expenses:
 
GARBAGE           36   
CALE/INTERNET   114   
WATER                   50   
GEICO AUTO           135   
MASSAGE       70   If this is massage envy, you can cancel if you try hard enough. Talk to manager, explain situation.
AUTO LOAN           393   3591   6.54% Sell car ASAP, paying it off in 9 months means nothing because you have no money.
MORTGAGE           1761   164,717   5.125%
FUEL                   200   
GAS/ELECTRIC        150   
GROCERIES       1100 600   
EATING OUT       600 30
CAMERAS       25   
PARENTS                    0       30K   
CC1                            194       856   25.24%
CC2                            134       4495   24.49
CC3                            25       505   23.24%
CC4                            25       452   10.23%
CC5                            20       692   18.49%
CC6                            75       797   24.15
CC7                            100       2020   25.24
Furniture Loan            276       1950   25.00

TOTAL                     5472   46,405   
NEW TOTAL             3270        41,767

Assets:

Primary home – Owe $164,717, worth $175k
Rental – Owe $25k HELOC + $9k taxes, worth $70k to $80k Sell it ASAP
Car – Owe $4,500, worth $15k to $17k Car - $5000, paid in Cash after selling financed car
Cash - $850 $2000 funded by selling crap from around the house - you need an emergency fund
401k - $5,000

Liabilities:

Income tax - $40k 35k Paid off with sale of Rental, 5k paid off with sale of car
Property tax on rental - $9k Paid off with sale of rental

I am reposting this for emphasis, because it clearly lays out a very manageable solid plan for you. Number one and two on your list to fix your situation should be the big items - sell the rental property and your car. Selling these will ease your finances, allow you to pay off some debts ASAP. The other things, grocery shopping and learning to cook, are much slower wins that will take time to learn. You need a solution NOW. The quick fix is to sell the rental, AS IS, sell your car, and become a one car family. You asked for quick - this is the quickest solution. Not easy, as you'll have to adjust your habits and learn to live with one car, but it will ease the massive financial pressure you are under in however long it takes to sell in your market. The rest of the things will come in time, and I'm afraid the little wins (groceries, couches, cooking from scratch) are distracting you from what you need to do NOW.

honeybbq

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #491 on: January 11, 2017, 09:31:41 AM »
One question I have not seen asked yet--how experienced at cooking are you and especially your wife? There's no point telling you to make your own bread and yogurt from scratch right now if you're at the "boil pasta, add sauce" level. There are still ways to cook and shop more efficiently, but I would give different advice depending on the experience level.

I'm embarrassed now because I'm at that stage!

Do I have to make the pasta and sauce myself from elemental ingredients or is it acceptable to buy the pasta and sauce and just toss it in the saucepan?

The latter, because there is no economic advantage to making pasta from scratch.  The machines that make pasta do it too well for any homemaker to compete.

Yes... but I am trying to take note of all the added sugar and salt warnings that are permeating this thread. If you make it yourself you can control exactly what goes in it.

I try to buy whole wheat pasta and use jarred tomato sauce that has as little sugar as possible. I think Newman's is good (don't quote me though) and Ragu has like 20 teaspoons in a cup! Check the labels. And add veggies. :)

honeybbq

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #492 on: January 11, 2017, 09:34:57 AM »
I'm surprised there was not that many responses about the grocery items at all.

As I read it, there is a giant, fire-y asteroid named EATING HABITS that is pointed right at them. Money aside, the items they buy at the grocery store will send them to the hospital with time. Obesity, diabetes, heart disease, not to mention dental work and cavities... you name it... and if the kids are eating it... ugh.

Quite frankly, it shows the lack of discipline the parents have. Eating is unhealthy, finances are unhealthy, etc. Reigning in one will help with the other.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #493 on: January 11, 2017, 09:35:42 AM »
I'm surprised there was not that many responses about the grocery items at all.

As I read it, there is a giant, fire-y asteroid named EATING HABITS that is pointed right at them. Money aside, the items they buy at the grocery store will send them to the hospital with time. Obesity, diabetes, heart disease, not to mention dental work and cavities... you name it... and if the kids are eating it... ugh.

Quite frankly, it shows the lack of discipline the parents have. Eating is unhealthy, finances are unhealthy, etc. Reigning in one will help with the other.

?? There were like 4 pages almost entirely devoted to groceries.

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #494 on: January 11, 2017, 09:54:53 AM »
Hey, the beatles!

I am completely hooked on this thread and following it intently.  I just got caught up.

Let's recap. 

FIRST - this is only four days since the original post.  Right?

SECOND - You already have accomplishments.

In those four days, you have already cut out $600 monthly spending on lunches for other self employed people at work.

You have cut off the massages ($70 monthly?)

You are now looking into budgeting for groceries and meals out.

Even without the grocery and meals out - you have saved $670 monthly, or $8040 a year.  That's more than $80,000 over a decade.

Start calculating the value of your savings over ten years, and you will see that even little expenses (on a monthly basis) add up to large amounts.

$80,000 over the next ten years.

The next step will put that well into six figures.

I was going to ask, what's next?  I think I answered my own question, though, and the answer is tackling groceries and meals out.  Is this correct?  If so, then this will make a huge dent in your spending.

Don't expect to do it all at once in one month.  I think your initial goal is too ambitious for a one month cut.  75% all at once is likely to result in failure.  Instead of setting and artificial dollar amount, instead start looking at each and every purchase - is this needed?  Can I cut it out?  Is there a way to do it cheaper?  The end result may well be a 75% cut, but it might take a while, and the process of figuring out what you need and how to get it efficiently will IMPROVE your life.  Simply setting a number arbitrarily is going to feel like it is not an improvement to your life.  Does that make sense?

I have a similar income to you, and I have 4 kids!  So, hopefully, you will not be dismissive of what I say on this.  We eat A LOT (just by myself, 8 eggs and 1.5 to 2 pounds of meat daily, and that does not include the rest of the family, plus my veggies and carb sources to fuel workouts).  So we are not starving, but we typically spend about $600 monthly on groceries.

Eating out was a big financial issue for me and my wife, as even a few times a month can add up to hundreds of dollars.  We called it quits almost entirely on eating out.   if you cannot just cut it out entirely, then I think it would be a good idea for you, if your wife is on board with it, to set a dollar limit and pull it out of the ATM in cash.  Then your wife and you decide, whatever this dollar amount is, that is it for the month.  If we eat out, it will be using this cash.  When it is gone, it is gone.  No debit card use for eating out.  No credit card use for eating out.  No cheating.  This includes fast food runs with the kiddos because of lack of planning and, well, we have to eat (my wife and I have been there, beatles, I know).  Only from that one cash source and nothing else, ever.  This includes any meals out for yourself at work.  You spend $7, and it is $7 less in that monthly cash envelope for eating out.  No excuses.  When it is gone, then it is gone.  See that Saturday Night Live.

Groceries - the biggest deal will be to buy nothing prepared.  If it is in a box or a bag, then do not buy it.  If it has ingredients, then do not buy it.  Buy raw meat.  By raw vegetables.  Well, rice and potatoes sometimes come in bags, but you get what I mean.  No juice, soda, or any other sugary crap.   Sugar is the devil, and your kids will behave so much better once you stop infusing them with excessive loads of it.  Your wallet will also thank you. 

The second biggest deal is to comparison shop.  My wife (SAHM, like yours) does much of this online now.  Do they have an Aldi where you are?  Check it out if you have not.

Tackling one thing at a time like this will help keep you from burning out.  If you look at my journal, I was near a 50% savings rate (similar income to you, 4 kids) in 2015, but then I crashed and burned in spectacular fashion.  I basically saved nothing for 2016.  I lost an entire year from my goals.  I am trying to get things back on track for 2017.

I am older than you by decades (or very nearly decades).  I WISH I had figured this stuff out at your age.  I would be very well set by now.

You have a HUGE opportunity here.

I also feel like I have to post on one issue that keeps coming up, and that is your parents.  It is time to divorce yourself from them financially.  You asked earlier, "What is wrong with parents helping out their kids?"  Your question is rhetorical, and it assumes that nothing is wrong with it. The problem is that your underlying assumption is wrong.  While the parents are well intentioned, they are actually harming their kids.  Thomas Stanley studied this issue, and he wrote about it in his book, The Millionaire Next Door.  He called parents helping their kids Economic Outpatient Care.    The results of his study were precisely backward from what everybody expected.  It turns out that kids who receive help from their parents are hamstrung financially.  They are less able to cope with finances, spend more, run up debt, and accumulate far less wealth.

Here is a little bit about it. http://www.thomasjstanley.com/2014/04/millionaires-favorite-chapter-in-the-millionaire-next-door/
Actual quote from the book with his finding:
Quote
. . . in eight of the ten occupational categories, gift receivers [those who receive economic outpatient care] have smaller levels of net worth (wealth) than those who do not receive gifts.

Shocking, isn't it?

So do yourself a favor, and stop soliciting this harmful influence in your life.

As my final advice in this post, just a recap, first, did I record your first four days of accomplishments correctly?  If not, please add anything I missed.  I do not want to be inaccurate.

Second, move on to groceries, comparison shop, buying whole food (not processed) and reduce or eliminate entirely eating out.

Third, calculate all of these savings on ten year terms to figure out what these things are really costing you.

Fourth, find the next issue and move on to it. 

One step at a time!

You have made $80,000 of savings over the next decade, and are about to create over six figures of savings!

OurTown

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #495 on: January 11, 2017, 09:59:57 AM »
Malum, that was the best post in the history of the internet.

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #496 on: January 11, 2017, 10:01:58 AM »
Malum, that was the best post in the history of the internet.
  Wow, thanks OurTown!    :)

OurTown

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #497 on: January 11, 2017, 10:05:15 AM »
Malum, that was the best post in the history of the internet.
  Wow, thanks OurTown!    :)

I need to do some of this myself.  In fact, we are re-instituting the cash allowance for meals out.  You know, even the act of tracking the spend (to determine the amount of the allowance) has reduced the spend.  I am literally ashamed of the amount we have been spending eating out.

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #498 on: January 11, 2017, 10:11:52 AM »
Malum, that was the best post in the history of the internet.
  Wow, thanks OurTown!    :)

I need to do some of this myself.  In fact, we are re-instituting the cash allowance for meals out.  You know, even the act of tracking the spend (to determine the amount of the allowance) has reduced the spend.  I am literally ashamed of the amount we have been spending eating out.
  That is exactly what happened to me an my wife.  We felt like we did not eat out very often, but the act of tracking it opened our eyes to how much money we actually were flushing away.  It was a shock.

We write our spending down on a piece of paper and add it up every week and at the end of the month.

Just knowing I am going to have to write it down sometimes keeps me from spending it!

Mmm_Donuts

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Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #499 on: January 11, 2017, 10:47:56 AM »
Guys, Beatles owes 40k to the IRS, plus multiple other high-cost debts. While it's great that he can save 80k over the next 10 years by eating out less, do you think the IRS will stop charging interest and penalties for 10 years while he figures this out?

Again, his next steps need to be sell the rental, as in, put it on the market TODAY, and sell the car. He has another car, selling this one will instantly free up 10k. It would take a LOT of eating out to make back that amount. Beatles is in SERIOUS shit here. IMO cutting out groceries is great but at this point, in his specific (dire!) situation, it is pissing in the wind.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!