Author Topic: The beatles Case Study  (Read 262742 times)

researcher1

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 466
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #400 on: January 10, 2017, 12:11:32 PM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

There are only two possible explanations for this thread...

Either "The Beatles" is a troll with lots of time on his hands OR he is the most ignorant, self-absorbed, immature, spoiled dumb*ass on this forum.
MOD NOTE: Not helpful and violating the forum rules.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 12:15:21 PM by swick »

Cowardly Toaster

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 473
    • My MMM Forum Journal
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #401 on: January 10, 2017, 12:12:44 PM »

One last idea. Write a list of all the things you want. Hawaii vacation, car start, new car, new fishing pole, whatever. Then look through the list and show yourself that you don't need a single one of them.

LMAO!

I'm just imagining how that is going to go.

"Ok honey, think about the palm trees ... The warm breezy air ... The clear blue ocean ... The pina colada's. Thinking about all that now? OK... *slap* You dont need that! Now get back to chopping carrots"

I'm not sure i'd wake up the next day...

LOL I'd say the list is for you personally because I think you still need to convince yourself that frugality is the right path.

As far as cooking or going on a walk or whatever fun frugal activity you choose, just show your family how much fun it is. No reason to tell them.

The beatles

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #402 on: January 10, 2017, 12:13:22 PM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

There are only two possible explanations for this thread...

Either "The Beatles" is a troll with lots of time on his hands OR he is the most ignorant, self-absorbed, immature, spoiled dumb*ass on this forum.

Wow.

Thanks.

swick

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2877
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #403 on: January 10, 2017, 12:13:52 PM »
Not to make excuses (dont facepunch me!)

But...

The income talk should probably be had.

Because there are at least 4 people (2 posters and their spouse) in just the last 10 posts or so, that make over $300k per year.

So they can save 80% and STILL make what I make lol.

Big difference there.

I bet most people on this site have very large incomes that make this easier.

The income talk is a red herring for two reasons. FIRST: What other people make has no bearing on YOUR situation. Second, regardless of income the math for FIRE works. It is as much (or more) about spending than earning and dialing in what you actually need in retirement.

Also, there are tons of people on these forums who make LESS THAN YOU. There are people recovering from divorce, those who have suffered loss of their spouse and main income earner, people working in nonprofits, people with disabilities who are supporting themselves on less than 25,000 a year.

marielle

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 860
  • Age: 30
  • Location: South Carolina
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #404 on: January 10, 2017, 12:15:03 PM »

I just can't get over the thought of buying used furniture on Craigslist.

Every time I sat on the couch I would think of the fact that someone else probably had sex on this thing, or sat in their boxers on it sometime, or was scratching who knows what on it, or had their dog on it ... Etc.

That doesn't gross anyone out?

You eat after people in restaurants, using the same plates and silverware and cups. You sit in chairs that could have been peed on or who knows what else. You bought your house after someone else lived in it too right? Oh god, but what if they had sex in it? Or on the carpet? What about a used car? Are you going to forever buy new cars because someone could have done something gross in it?

But wait...you might say all this stuff was cleaned and sanitized. Why can't you do that with your used furniture too?

ysette9

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8930
  • Age: 2020
  • Location: Bay Area at heart living in the PNW
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #405 on: January 10, 2017, 12:19:06 PM »
Quote
What type of engineer?

I have two friends. One is an electrical engineer and the other is a software engineer.

Both make under 100k.

It may be our area though

It could very well be the area. We are in Silicon Valley. Mechanical design engineer and materials/component/project engineer. We also went to top schools and have two degrees each.

But that is all distraction. It doesn't matter so much what you earn, it is what you keep, as others have already posted. My sister probably makes close to $50k in a HCOL area and manages to save by being very careful with every dollar she spends. She has a nicely decorated and renovated condo that she put a lot of thought into and got a lot of good deals on. She has just what she wants and needs and nothing more. She is a wonderful role model for me even though we save boatloads more each year than her.

Iplawyer

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 308
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #406 on: January 10, 2017, 12:19:32 PM »
Not to make excuses (dont facepunch me!)

But...

The income talk should probably be had.

Because there are at least 4 people (2 posters and their spouse) in just the last 10 posts or so, that make over $300k per year.

So they can save 80% and STILL make what I make lol.

Big difference there.

I bet most people on this site have very large incomes that make this easier.

I don't have to apologize for working my arse off from undergrad to job(+ kids)  to job+grad school(+ kids)  to owning a business(+ kids)  to owning a business + grad school again(+ kids)  to just a job - and that is just me.  We did not start out at that income - that income represents a progression based on increasing education and experience in the very difficult fields we both chose to pursue. 

But despite our income increasing over the years - we still live in the same house we built 25 years ago. My car is a 2006.  My husband just sold his 2001.  Our "vacation home" is the small home I bought at the very bottom of the market when I was working remotely from home for six years, to save on rent.  In my "spare time" I gutted and remodeled it and it will become our main home when we sell the family home soon. But I bought the smallest home in the neighborhood when we could have bought the best and biggest in the neighborhood. And the gutting and remodel was all done in cash pay as you go.  So are the furnishings and everything inside.

And I'm a little over 20 years older than you - I assume that you expect people that have been working longer with more education and experience to make more than you?  I do have to say that we could have spent every penny - most of our friends have - but we've given generously to charity each year and saved for our future without work - supposing we can actually get health insurance now.  We've never spent more than we've earned - ever - even in the beginning when we weren't making much.  And, BTW, somehow we discovered that both of us working did net out to a positive even with child care.

And no - most people don't. We are in the top 1 % of earners.  As a matter of fact - you are in the top 18% of earners according to (http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2016/03/02/what-percent-are-you-2/). 



notactiveanymore

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 212
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #407 on: January 10, 2017, 12:23:51 PM »
Not to make excuses (dont facepunch me!)

But...

The income talk should probably be had.

Because there are at least 4 people (2 posters and their spouse) in just the last 10 posts or so, that make over $300k per year.

So they can save 80% and STILL make what I make lol.

Big difference there.

I bet most people on this site have very large incomes that make this easier.

My husband and I will make 87k gross in 2017. We made 80.5k gross in 2016, ~72k in 2015, ~68k in 2014, and ~58k in 2013. When we met (at work in 2013) we were each making $25k gross and he had 55k in student loans. We got married in October 2014 and we paid off all 55k in student loans in 20 months. We did not have much by way of assets to sell - just our two vehicles which would not have made sense to sell because of their low value - so we put over 50% of our takehome income to paying off the debt. Our average income over the 20 month payoff was $75,000.

I just got a hefty raise in 2017, so I'm not sure what our savings rate will be, but we're probably going to be saving over 40% of our gross income and tithing 10% of our takehome income as well. Right now we're doing about 13.5% of gross toward retirement and then saving for a down payment with the rest. We currently rent a 2 BR 1 BA apartment which has free internet and cable for $710/month. Our community is medium cost of living and we're going to try to get pregnant this year and not buy a house until Summer 2018. We have $10,000 in an emergency fund.

We saved up during the payoff and were thus prepared to replace his vehicle that went kaput in October. We bought a manual 2006 Saturn Ion with 30k miles on it for $5700 in cash a few days later. And for the record, we have one sofa which my husband's parents bought for him from Big Lots for $350 as an apartment warming present when he got his first job after school. We sold my couch on craigslist for $20 which I had bought for $20 from craigslist a couple years prior.

When we do buy a house, I'm planning on putting the Big Lots couch in the basement and buying a new couch for our future living room. The biggest benefit of being free from the debt we had was that we can decide together what our financial priorities are and plan for those in a responsible way.

Moustachienne

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 419
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #408 on: January 10, 2017, 12:24:29 PM »
I've gone back and forth on whether beatles is a troll, I've gotta say.  Currently thinking he's not an intentional troll but his posts might as well be calculated to troll as they hit all the MMM spendypants, complainypants hot buttons.

There have been a lot of great, realistic suggestions for beatles on this thread, as well as some that are more out there but still fun, but he continues to post questions that read as if he hasn't taken anything in.  I don't get this.

Either you want to live within your means or you don't. If you do, there are a lot of good suggestions here and also on the MMM blog.  Start reading at the first article.  If you don't, well, OK.  No amount of querying specific bread, sofa, car starter purchases is going to change that.

I hope that you choose financial freedom for your family - but you are free not to.

ysette9

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8930
  • Age: 2020
  • Location: Bay Area at heart living in the PNW
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #409 on: January 10, 2017, 12:27:48 PM »
Quote
Because there are at least 4 people (2 posters and their spouse) in just the last 10 posts or so, that make over $300k per year

Sorry if I muddied the waters. We are above $300k a year household income, not individually. 12 years experience for each of us so we are a few years older than The Beatles.

On the used furniture: don't sit on a couch you buy off of Craigslist without putting on pants first. Problem solved! We recently bought dining room chairs from someone on Craigslist (we had been looking at new ones on ikea's website and then found the same thing used). We tooo the covers off, washed then, put them back on and now everything is great. You could consider a removable sofa cover if you really are that creeped out by the idea of someone else's Levi's.

For the record, I absolutely do not think he is a troll. He just is coming from a very different world view and having to make a lot of mental adjustments.

The beatles

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #410 on: January 10, 2017, 12:32:36 PM »
Not to make excuses (dont facepunch me!)

But...

The income talk should probably be had.

Because there are at least 4 people (2 posters and their spouse) in just the last 10 posts or so, that make over $300k per year.

So they can save 80% and STILL make what I make lol.

Big difference there.

I bet most people on this site have very large incomes that make this easier.

I don't have to apologize for working my arse off from undergrad to job(+ kids)  to job+grad school(+ kids)  to owning a business(+ kids)  to owning a business + grad school again(+ kids)  to just a job - and that is just me.  We did not start out at that income - that income represents a progression based on increasing education and experience in the very difficult fields we both chose to pursue. 

But despite our income increasing over the years - we still live in the same house we built 25 years ago. My car is a 2006.  My husband just sold his 2001.  Our "vacation home" is the small home I bought at the very bottom of the market when I was working remotely from home for six years, to save on rent.  In my "spare time" I gutted and remodeled it and it will become our main home when we sell the family home soon. But I bought the smallest home in the neighborhood when we could have bought the best and biggest in the neighborhood. And the gutting and remodel was all done in cash pay as you go.  So are the furnishings and everything inside.

And I'm a little over 20 years older than you - I assume that you expect people that have been working longer with more education and experience to make more than you?  I do have to say that we could have spent every penny - most of our friends have - but we've given generously to charity each year and saved for our future without work - supposing we can actually get health insurance now.  We've never spent more than we've earned - ever - even in the beginning when we weren't making much.  And, BTW, somehow we discovered that both of us working did net out to a positive even with child care.

And no - most people don't. We are in the top 1 % of earners.  As a matter of fact - you are in the top 18% of earners according to (http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2016/03/02/what-percent-are-you-2/).

UH, what?

Who asked you to apologize?

Or even implied it?

Txtriathlete

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 53
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #411 on: January 10, 2017, 12:33:09 PM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

There are only two possible explanations for this thread...

Either "The Beatles" is a troll with lots of time on his hands OR he is the most ignorant, self-absorbed, immature, spoiled dumb*ass on this forum.

Wow.

Thanks.

Although kind of roughly worded, this is similar to what I have been thinking as I was reading through the past few posts about toy cars, car starters, couches and such. 

By now you should be developing a pretty clear picture of the folks you are interacting with on this site. As a marketer, part of your skill set should be "reading your audience".  These folks will not respond favorably to comments suggesting your garage is too full of stuff to use as a garage, purchasing other items to compensate for lack of garage space or any other consumerism. 

You painted a pretty dire situation at the outset of this posting.  You have been told many times "stop buying" and "sell shit".   How do you think folks will respond to comments that reflect "buy more shit"?

As for income, as others have said it's irrelevant. Your family only needs (needs) x amount of money to subsist per month. It of no consequence if you make 2x or 6x in income - x never changes. If it does this is called lifestyle creep and you need to shut it down and return to x. Anything above x is used for savings (debt repayment) until you are financially independent - I.e. 4% of your investments = x.  Then you can consider early retirement. 

The beatles

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #412 on: January 10, 2017, 12:33:46 PM »
I've gone back and forth on whether beatles is a troll, I've gotta say.  Currently thinking he's not an intentional troll but his posts might as well be calculated to troll as they hit all the MMM spendypants, complainypants hot buttons.

There have been a lot of great, realistic suggestions for beatles on this thread, as well as some that are more out there but still fun, but he continues to post questions that read as if he hasn't taken anything in.  I don't get this.

Either you want to live within your means or you don't. If you do, there are a lot of good suggestions here and also on the MMM blog.  Start reading at the first article.  If you don't, well, OK.  No amount of querying specific bread, sofa, car starter purchases is going to change that.

I hope that you choose financial freedom for your family - but you are free not to.

There's over 8 pages and 300+ posts in this thread.

If you look back, I've already taken several steps.

honeybbq

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1468
  • Location: Seattle
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #413 on: January 10, 2017, 12:34:08 PM »
Not to make excuses (dont facepunch me!)

But...

The income talk should probably be had.

Because there are at least 4 people (2 posters and their spouse) in just the last 10 posts or so, that make over $300k per year.

So they can save 80% and STILL make what I make lol.

Big difference there.

I bet most people on this site have very large incomes that make this easier.

This is an excellent chance to offer perspective.

My household makes close to $500k a year. We have 2 couches. One I bought 15 years ago for $250 on clearance at TJMaxx because there was a scratch in it. We bought another a few years ago (and gave away the futon we have been using) from JCPenney. I think it was $750 or $800 delivered. My child has no motorized riding toys. Up until this Xmas, we had a single 15 year old TV. My dining room set, which is lovely, was bought used on Craigslist.

You would never know these things by walking in my house. The items are nice and well cared for. I am thrifty and look for deals, and save my money for things that are important. There is no couch on earth worth $2500 to me,

Very large incomes means nothing if you don't have the right attitude. However, as pointed out earlier - It's not how much money you make. It's how much you SPEND relative to what you earn.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 12:37:59 PM by honeybbq »

Jakejake

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 720
  • FIRE: June 17, 2016
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #414 on: January 10, 2017, 12:38:02 PM »
I just can't get over the thought of buying used furniture on Craigslist.

Every time I sat on the couch I would think of the fact that someone else probably had sex on this thing, or sat in their boxers on it sometime, or was scratching who knows what on it, or had their dog on it ... Etc.

That doesn't gross anyone out?
Earlier you mentioned you wanted a vacation in hawaii. Were you planning to stay in a hotel in hawaii? Were you planning to buy a brand new bed and furniture for your hotel room for the week you stay there, and pay for storage for the ones the hotel owns while you're there?

Zoot

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 517
  • Location: USA
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #415 on: January 10, 2017, 12:39:50 PM »
I just can't get over the thought of buying used furniture on Craigslist.

Every time I sat on the couch I would think of the fact that someone else probably had sex on this thing, or sat in their boxers on it sometime, or was scratching who knows what on it, or had their dog on it ... Etc.

That doesn't gross anyone out?

Do you ever stay in hotels?  If you do, do you sleep in the bed?

If you don't have a problem with that, then you don't have a problem with used furniture. 

If it's cloth, have it steam cleaned.  If it's not, clean it by whatever method is appropriate.

Cost of furniture on Craigslist + cleaning cost is still WAY less--heck, an order or two of magnitude less--than new furniture.

Zoot

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 517
  • Location: USA
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #416 on: January 10, 2017, 12:43:57 PM »
Earlier you mentioned you wanted a vacation in hawaii. Were you planning to stay in a hotel in hawaii? Were you planning to buy a brand new bed and furniture for your hotel room for the week you stay there, and pay for storage for the ones the hotel owns while you're there?

Do you ever stay in hotels?  If you do, do you sleep in the bed?

If you don't have a problem with that, then you don't have a problem with used furniture. 

If it's cloth, have it steam cleaned.  If it's not, clean it by whatever method is appropriate.

Cost of furniture on Craigslist + cleaning cost is still WAY less--heck, an order or two of magnitude less--than new furniture.

Great minds think alike.  :)

Txtriathlete

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 53
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #417 on: January 10, 2017, 12:49:03 PM »
I've gone back and forth on whether beatles is a troll, I've gotta say.  Currently thinking he's not an intentional troll but his posts might as well be calculated to troll as they hit all the MMM spendypants, complainypants hot buttons.

There have been a lot of great, realistic suggestions for beatles on this thread, as well as some that are more out there but still fun, but he continues to post questions that read as if he hasn't taken anything in.  I don't get this.

Either you want to live within your means or you don't. If you do, there are a lot of good suggestions here and also on the MMM blog.  Start reading at the first article.  If you don't, well, OK.  No amount of querying specific bread, sofa, car starter purchases is going to change that.

I hope that you choose financial freedom for your family - but you are free not to.

There's over 8 pages and 300+ posts in this thread.

If you look back, I've already taken several steps.

After 9 pages I think I need a recap. 

I saw "told office I'm not buying lunches anymore". Was there more?

What other action steps did I miss?


The beatles

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #418 on: January 10, 2017, 12:50:06 PM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

There are only two possible explanations for this thread...

Either "The Beatles" is a troll with lots of time on his hands OR he is the most ignorant, self-absorbed, immature, spoiled dumb*ass on this forum.

Wow.

Thanks.

Although kind of roughly worded, this is similar to what I have been thinking as I was reading through the past few posts about toy cars, car starters, couches and such. 

By now you should be developing a pretty clear picture of the folks you are interacting with on this site. As a marketer, part of your skill set should be "reading your audience".  These folks will not respond favorably to comments suggesting your garage is too full of stuff to use as a garage, purchasing other items to compensate for lack of garage space or any other consumerism. 

You painted a pretty dire situation at the outset of this posting.  You have been told many times "stop buying" and "sell shit".   How do you think folks will respond to comments that reflect "buy more shit"?

As for income, as others have said it's irrelevant. Your family only needs (needs) x amount of money to subsist per month. It of no consequence if you make 2x or 6x in income - x never changes. If it does this is called lifestyle creep and you need to shut it down and return to x. Anything above x is used for savings (debt repayment) until you are financially independent - I.e. 4% of your investments = x.  Then you can consider early retirement.

Ya wanna know what?

I've had enough.

You win.

Bye.

YoungGranny

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 751
  • Age: 33
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #419 on: January 10, 2017, 12:54:14 PM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

There are only two possible explanations for this thread...

Either "The Beatles" is a troll with lots of time on his hands OR he is the most ignorant, self-absorbed, immature, spoiled dumb*ass on this forum.

Wow.

Thanks.

Although kind of roughly worded, this is similar to what I have been thinking as I was reading through the past few posts about toy cars, car starters, couches and such. 

By now you should be developing a pretty clear picture of the folks you are interacting with on this site. As a marketer, part of your skill set should be "reading your audience".  These folks will not respond favorably to comments suggesting your garage is too full of stuff to use as a garage, purchasing other items to compensate for lack of garage space or any other consumerism. 

You painted a pretty dire situation at the outset of this posting.  You have been told many times "stop buying" and "sell shit".   How do you think folks will respond to comments that reflect "buy more shit"?

As for income, as others have said it's irrelevant. Your family only needs (needs) x amount of money to subsist per month. It of no consequence if you make 2x or 6x in income - x never changes. If it does this is called lifestyle creep and you need to shut it down and return to x. Anything above x is used for savings (debt repayment) until you are financially independent - I.e. 4% of your investments = x.  Then you can consider early retirement.

Ya wanna know what?

I've had enough.

You win.

Bye.

In this case nobody can lose but you. Don't just say "bye". It's A LOT of information to take in and process, I get that. The baby steps and willingness to ask questions is great. You have a long journey ahead of you and for some of the more intense people on here it's hard for them to understand where you are. Let it soak in, process it, come back in a few weeks and tell us all the great changes you've made! You'll get more positive comments when people see that you've taken their advice to heart and are making changes, good luck! :)

Trifle

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5906
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Outside, NC, US
    • In The Garden
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #420 on: January 10, 2017, 12:56:50 PM »
Good luck, Beatles.  You can do it.

Captain FIRE

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1176
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #421 on: January 10, 2017, 12:57:31 PM »
You don't need to buy on craigslist if it weirds you out.  There's a lot of in between ground from "buy nothing" to "craigslist" to "carefully researched sale price of reasonably priced furniture bought with cash".  This is akin to letting the mirror shard story scare you away from making any changes at all.  But the point people are making is that you are living well beyond your means, and don't even seem to register or recognize it as an issue.  Case in point - wanting to buy a remote car starter - on credit - because you have too much stuff in the garage for you to park your car there.  Don't you see how very ironic that is?  I've lived in many cold places and I had to look up what a remote car starter even is.  Just go out to the car and turn it on yourself 5 minutes before you want to leave.  That's what my husband does when he wants to give us a nice treat on cold mornings.

You also seem comfortable relying on  your parents to support your daily lifestyle.  Don't you want to be independent and not rely on them anymore, standing on your own two feet as an adult?  And even if not, have you thought about whether you'll be able to pass this type of support on to your kids?  Do you think your parents would be disappointed that this type of intergenerational support will end with you, unless you change your ways?

Absolutely a high income makes saving easier and it can therefore be discouraging hearing advice from high income earners.  But having a low income actually provides the best incentive to live more carefully pay attention to your spending.  It's usually the high income people that are sloppier with spending because they have that option.  You don't.

Someone else posted this recently.  At the time it seemed a ridiculously obvious parody, but it rather seems like you genuinely believe in the couple's perspective:
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/dont-buy-stuff/n12020?snl=1

Also read Millionaire Next Door, which demonstrates that the people who have money do so because they aren't spending it to keep up with the Jones (and that economic outpatient support that your parents give you isn't healthy for you).

btw, keep the couches, you won't get much for them anyway I bet.  But put a price tag on them to remind you that they really cost $7k+, so you think about it the next time you buy something you want on credit you can't afford.

LadyStache in Baja

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 699
    • My Casa Caoba: Making meaning in Mexico
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #422 on: January 10, 2017, 12:58:29 PM »
Did you cancel your three monthly charges yet?

katscratch

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1055
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #423 on: January 10, 2017, 01:03:14 PM »
I have to admit--OP is getting ripped for "instant gratification," yet many people on here seem to want him to change his entire lifestyle overnight.

He's made a reasonable amount of changes from what I've seen--signing up for Mint, realizing how much money is going to groceries, organizing his credit card debts, etc. That's a lot for someone in his situation.

Most of the responses are asking him to change his entire worldview towards finances, and that's going to take time. It's why I've recommended "Your Money or Your Life" in multiple posts to OP--he needs a worldview change, and that takes a lot of time and effort.

I think month-by-month goals would be awesome, and I would recommend a journal. This thread seems to have caught a lot of steam so I think you'd have a lot of interest/support.

I was going to say this too.

beatles, your willingness and enthusiasm to change is pretty damn remarkable, especially if your peer group is used to the way you've been living.


I agree that cutting your food bill that much might be too hard and make you guys resent this whole thing -- I'd start with cutting out the junk food first.  Then start with SIMPLE meals from scratch at home like mac & cheese.  Whatever your family's version of comfort food is. 

It took me probably six months to be able to meal plan and cook all my meals without taking a really long time to do it.  I used to think that cooking doesn't come naturally to me - but it really doesn't for anyone, it's a learning process. 


Teach your kids to provide for themselves.  Be an example of manly manliness and on your days off bake cookies with the whole family, even little kids can measure flour and sugar.  Make a mess of it!  Your kids will remember THAT stuff way more than the number of couches they had growing up!!!



I also want to say to your wife:  MASSIVE KUDOS.  I'm guessing you guys have a pretty awesome relationship that she can jump on board so quickly, especially knowing you're posting here.  :)

oh geez! this got another page longer before I hit post! -- you've definitely roused the locals, beatles :) 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 01:13:12 PM by katscratch »

charis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3162
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #424 on: January 10, 2017, 01:04:39 PM »
I feel like I know the answer but i'll ask anyway.

What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?

For example. I've needed a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.

A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)

There are only two possible explanations for this thread...

Either "The Beatles" is a troll with lots of time on his hands OR he is the most ignorant, self-absorbed, immature, spoiled dumb*ass on this forum.

Wow.

Thanks.

Although kind of roughly worded, this is similar to what I have been thinking as I was reading through the past few posts about toy cars, car starters, couches and such. 

By now you should be developing a pretty clear picture of the folks you are interacting with on this site. As a marketer, part of your skill set should be "reading your audience".  These folks will not respond favorably to comments suggesting your garage is too full of stuff to use as a garage, purchasing other items to compensate for lack of garage space or any other consumerism. 

You painted a pretty dire situation at the outset of this posting.  You have been told many times "stop buying" and "sell shit".   How do you think folks will respond to comments that reflect "buy more shit"?

As for income, as others have said it's irrelevant. Your family only needs (needs) x amount of money to subsist per month. It of no consequence if you make 2x or 6x in income - x never changes. If it does this is called lifestyle creep and you need to shut it down and return to x. Anything above x is used for savings (debt repayment) until you are financially independent - I.e. 4% of your investments = x.  Then you can consider early retirement.

Ya wanna know what?

I've had enough.

You win.

Bye.

I find it interesting that this even-toned, honest post is the straw that broke the camel's back for you.  I think people might suspect trolling (myself included) because of stuff like asking when you should by a remoter starter and being surprised that people have less than two couches, without more explanation from you as to how you are changing your lifestyle.  It is very hard for a frugal-minded person to understand that you are being serious.  I wouldn't get too offended by it, people are genuinely unable to see things from your perspective.

Papa bear

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1838
  • Location: Ohio
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #425 on: January 10, 2017, 01:05:34 PM »
I thought you only had 1 car from your previous posts.  You have 1 in garage and 1 needs remote start?  That's more than 1.

Good luck with everything. I'm interested to see how well you turn things around.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ysette9

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8930
  • Age: 2020
  • Location: Bay Area at heart living in the PNW
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #426 on: January 10, 2017, 01:06:04 PM »
Best of luck and I hope you check back in with us soon! It is a lot of tough love and I admire you for soaking it all in. Take a break, breathe deeply, and tackle it again tomorrow. It is a long journey so do it at a pace that is sustainable to you.

TheStachery

  • Guest
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #427 on: January 10, 2017, 01:07:01 PM »

One last idea. Write a list of all the things you want. Hawaii vacation, car start, new car, new fishing pole, whatever. Then look through the list and show yourself that you don't need a single one of them.

LMAO!

I'm just imagining how that is going to go.


"Ok honey, think about the palm trees ... The warm breezy air ... The clear blue ocean ... The pina colada's. Thinking about all that now? OK... *slap* You dont need that! Now get back to chopping carrots"

I'm not sure i'd wake up the next day...

If you do a budget, it's not about saying no, it's about prioritizing your goals.  You want to go to Hawaii? Sure!   You and your wife have to cut back spending somewhere else. 

Quidnon?

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 337
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #428 on: January 10, 2017, 01:12:05 PM »

And then my wifes vehicle is in the other spot.

Wait, now you have two cars?  Is this one paid for?  Can you sell your's outright and make it on one vehicle for 6 months?  On days your wife can stay home, you could just take the car, on days that she needs to drive somewhere, she can drop you off at work and let you take Uber/Lyft home, or vis versa.  Even 4 trips per month by a ride service would save you money, car payment and insurance payments considered.

Jon Bon

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1664
  • Location: Midwest
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #429 on: January 10, 2017, 01:21:24 PM »
Journalist posing as a poster to write about the FIRE community?

I'm sure in 2 weeks or so we will see something click baity on HuffPo about how we are all a bunch of crazies.

Like think about it the pattern was repeating. He would give more information, we would all lose our minds.

I found Mint
Owe 50k to IRS
Parents will pay for roof
I need remote start
Ill go bankrupt then go to Hawaii
I financed furniture
And many more...

The beatles

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #430 on: January 10, 2017, 01:21:56 PM »

And then my wifes vehicle is in the other spot.

Wait, now you have two cars?  Is this one paid for?  Can you sell your's outright and make it on one vehicle for 6 months?  On days your wife can stay home, you could just take the car, on days that she needs to drive somewhere, she can drop you off at work and let you take Uber/Lyft home, or vis versa.  Even 4 trips per month by a ride service would save you money, car payment and insurance payments considered.

I sent you, and others, a private message. We can continue talking on there if you'd like. I'm tired of being called a troll.

And yes, we have 2 cars. 1 is paid off a long time and 1 has 8-9 payments left.

Jakejake

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 720
  • FIRE: June 17, 2016
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #431 on: January 10, 2017, 01:22:53 PM »
You don't need to buy on craigslist if it weirds you out.  There's a lot of in between ground from "buy nothing" to "craigslist" to "carefully researched sale price of reasonably priced furniture bought with cash".  This is akin to letting the mirror shard story scare you away from making any changes at all.
That's a valid point.

The couches are a sunk cost now, so what we're really arguing about is future expensive furniture purchases, and whether more $7,000 couches and such should be bought down the road, and whether anything else should be bought on credit. Anything that's a hard piece (bookcases, tables, etc) can certainly be bought or acquired used, and anything stuffed except maybe a mattress can be ikea-cheap - and probably should be, because nothing is sadder than spending thousands of dollars on a table only to have your toddler attack it with a sharpie (mine did this on our oak kitchen table). Or spill nail polish on it (my friend's foster daughter did that to a brand new upholstered couch). Or have a cat or dog scratch it up (both happened to my leather couch).

I understand needing to back away for a day or two if the thread is pissing you off, and it's a lot of face punches we're expecting you to thank us for. :)

But look at it this way - you're probably annoyed with the whole lot of us, but if all that's changed so far is that you stopped spending $150 a week buying lunch for people who can afford to buy their own, being active in this thread saved you almost $8000 a year - or $10000 if you use that money to pay off a high interest credit card debt. That's freaking amazing - for 3 days of arguing with our unreasonable asses, you netted as much as 2 months of full time work at your regular job!

You have to love us at least a little for that, no?

LadyStache in Baja

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 699
    • My Casa Caoba: Making meaning in Mexico
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #432 on: January 10, 2017, 01:23:16 PM »
Sorry Beatles.  I feel bad now, especially since apparently me and my mirror shard are pretty crazy.

Start a journal.  For some reason people are way nicer on journals.  No face punches at all!  We'll just cheer you on.  I guess here, in your case study, we want you to WAKE UP to a new way of seeing the world. 

Bracken_Joy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8927
  • Location: Oregon
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #433 on: January 10, 2017, 01:24:22 PM »

And then my wifes vehicle is in the other spot.

Wait, now you have two cars?  Is this one paid for?  Can you sell your's outright and make it on one vehicle for 6 months?  On days your wife can stay home, you could just take the car, on days that she needs to drive somewhere, she can drop you off at work and let you take Uber/Lyft home, or vis versa.  Even 4 trips per month by a ride service would save you money, car payment and insurance payments considered.

I sent you, and others, a private message. We can continue talking on there if you'd like. I'm tired of being called a troll.

And yes, we have 2 cars. 1 is paid off a long time and 1 has 8-9 payments left.

You are welcome to message me as well.  I'm particularly good at finding links for people =) So any resources particularly, lemme know!

Wish you the best, either way.

begood

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1013
  • Location: SE PA
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #434 on: January 10, 2017, 01:27:26 PM »
You can message me too, beatles! Talk about a late bloomer - my husband handled everything related to our financial life until about four years ago. So for the first twenty-four years of our marriage, I never paid a bill, checked a credit score, applied for a credit card, or handled any banking. Now I do all that for the begood family!

What I'm saying is we're all learning, and learning together can be really powerful.

mustachepungoeshere

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2404
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #435 on: January 10, 2017, 01:32:13 PM »
... Are you going to forever buy new cars because someone could have done something gross in it?

Don't give him ideas!

Jakejake

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 720
  • FIRE: June 17, 2016
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #436 on: January 10, 2017, 01:33:26 PM »
Sorry Beatles.  I feel bad now, especially since apparently me and my mirror shard are pretty crazy.
I liked the story, FWIW. It's not something everyone's going to aspire to, but the extreme frugal stuff can help balance out the moderately frugal choices. If you feel like you're only getting a choice between fancy rosemary bread at $5/loaf, or cheap store bread at $1/loaf, the dollar bread can feel sad. If it's a choice though between those two options or growing your own wheat and handgrinding it to bake your own bread for free, that puts the middle choice of buying a normal loaf of bread into perspective. The normal loaf isn't an extreme sacrifice, it's just a routine purchase instead of a luxury one.

Same with your mirror - it makes it obvious that buying a cheapo mirror from target will get the job done without sacrificing any quality of life. 

Plus, I can't be the only one enjoying the image of you wandering around baja accosting people who are living beyond their means, and shanking them with your mirror shard.

The beatles

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #437 on: January 10, 2017, 01:35:07 PM »
^^ Thanks for the offer you two.

I'm hopping off for a bit, but I'll message you later.

For the rest of you, I want you to imagine something.

I want you to imagine that you wake up one day and you're tired of the way you're living.

You're tired of whatever it is that's causing you to live that way so you set out to change.

You Google a few things and it leads you to a website that shows you how to fix the problem in your life.

You find that this website has a message board where other people who had fixed the same problem you have, are discussing how great life is now without that problem.

So you join.

You spill your entire life to them. Your family, your finances, where you live, etc.

You're brand new to this and you dont understand a lot of the things they're telling you.

You try to grasp the concept but these are people who fixed the problem you are having years and years and years ago.

It's second hand nature to them.

To you, it's brand new.

You're a child, walking for the first time.

They are adults, running, doing marathons.

When you ask questions, you get sniped at for not knowing the answer.

For being so stupid to not understand.

For not realizing the intricacies of what you just learned 3 days prior.

You're called a troll. A dumbass.

How would you feel?

How long would you stick around?

Some of you are great people. But many of you, you're so used to this life that you dont realize that there are people who don't know the first thing about it.


YoungGranny

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 751
  • Age: 33
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #438 on: January 10, 2017, 01:39:50 PM »
^^ Thanks for the offer you two.

I'm hopping off for a bit, but I'll message you later.

For the rest of you, I want you to imagine something.

I want you to imagine that you wake up one day and you're tired of the way you're living.

You're tired of whatever it is that's causing you to live that way so you set out to change.

You Google a few things and it leads you to a website that shows you how to fix the problem in your life.

You find that this website has a message board where other people who had fixed the same problem you have, are discussing how great life is now without that problem.

So you join.

You spill your entire life to them. Your family, your finances, where you live, etc.

You're brand new to this and you dont understand a lot of the things they're telling you.

You try to grasp the concept but these are people who fixed the problem you are having years and years and years ago.

It's second hand nature to them.

To you, it's brand new.

You're a child, walking for the first time.

They are adults, running, doing marathons.

When you ask questions, you get sniped at for not knowing the answer.

For being so stupid to not understand.

For not realizing the intricacies of what you just learned 3 days prior.

You're called a troll. A dumbass.

How would you feel?

How long would you stick around?

Some of you are great people. But many of you, you're so used to this life that you dont realize that there are people who don't know the first thing about it.

I do appreciate this and if you want any answers on "stupid questions" feel free to message me. However, in their defense Mr. Money Mustache is known for his brutally honest, harsh, face-punches to get people to wake up NOW. We all appreciate where you are and when you start making changes, no matter how small they are, you'll find everyone has been on your side this whole time. It's just that right now, it's like a different language and it can be frustrating to learn it especially without a translator.

swick

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2877
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #439 on: January 10, 2017, 01:40:44 PM »
MOD NOTE: OP has some good points, we can learn as a community from him, while he hopefully sticks around to learn from us. 

When you are responding, keep in mind the forum rules. Repeatedly calling someone a troll falls under the forum rule don't be a jerk. If you don't think it is worth it, or OP is not sincere, don't engage in the thread.

LadyStache in Baja

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 699
    • My Casa Caoba: Making meaning in Mexico
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #440 on: January 10, 2017, 01:47:54 PM »
Sorry Beatles.  I feel bad now, especially since apparently me and my mirror shard are pretty crazy.
I liked the story, FWIW. It's not something everyone's going to aspire to, but the extreme frugal stuff can help balance out the moderately frugal choices. If you feel like you're only getting a choice between fancy rosemary bread at $5/loaf, or cheap store bread at $1/loaf, the dollar bread can feel sad. If it's a choice though between those two options or growing your own wheat and handgrinding it to bake your own bread for free, that puts the middle choice of buying a normal loaf of bread into perspective. The normal loaf isn't an extreme sacrifice, it's just a routine purchase instead of a luxury one.

Same with your mirror - it makes it obvious that buying a cheapo mirror from target will get the job done without sacrificing any quality of life. 

Plus, I can't be the only one enjoying the image of you wandering around baja accosting people who are living beyond their means, and shanking them with your mirror shard.

Thanks jakejake.  Not to derail the thread too much, but I couldn't resist posting the picture of the offending mirror shard.  Cmon, It's a pretty decent shard!

CheapScholar

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 564
  • Location: The Midwest
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #441 on: January 10, 2017, 01:50:32 PM »
Beatles, come back!  I believe you!

Ramblin' Ma'am

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 61
  • Location: Boston area
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #442 on: January 10, 2017, 01:55:19 PM »
Hi beatles. I'll admit I started reading this because I was expecting it to be about Mustachian philosophy in Beatles lyrics or something like that. Then I got sucked in and read the whole thread in between doing actual work at my job. Good luck whether you come back to the thread or not.


Allie

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1740
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #443 on: January 10, 2017, 01:56:51 PM »
That's a mighty fine mirror shard!

PM or head over to the journal section and post there.  You can find a few people you get along with and bumble along with rest of us!

Jakejake

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 720
  • FIRE: June 17, 2016
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #444 on: January 10, 2017, 01:57:23 PM »
Thanks jakejake.  Not to derail the thread too much, but I couldn't resist posting the picture of the offending mirror shard.  Cmon, It's a pretty decent shard!
Ah, look at you, Ms. Fancypants, with your real glass for windows instead of saran wrap! ;)

researcher1

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 466
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #445 on: January 10, 2017, 02:04:26 PM »
By now you should be developing a pretty clear picture of the folks you are interacting with on this site. As a marketer, part of your skill set should be "reading your audience".  These folks will not respond favorably to comments suggesting your garage is too full of stuff to use as a garage, purchasing other items to compensate for lack of garage space or any other consumerism. 

You painted a pretty dire situation at the outset of this posting.  You have been told many times "stop buying" and "sell shit".   How do you think folks will respond to comments that reflect "buy more shit"?

As for income, as others have said it's irrelevant. Your family only needs (needs) x amount of money to subsist per month. It of no consequence if you make 2x or 6x in income - x never changes. If it does this is called lifestyle creep and you need to shut it down and return to x. Anything above x is used for savings (debt repayment) until you are financially independent - I.e. 4% of your investments = x.  Then you can consider early retirement.

Ya wanna know what?
I've had enough.
You win.
Bye.

The Beatles -

Here are a few of the thoughts you've expressed AFTER seeking help for a serious financial mess, and AFTER receiving an avalanche of helpful/actionable advice...

- The thing is, $40k wouldn't put my parents in a bad spot.   It's not even robbing them of their retirement.  More like getting an inheritance early. 
- They've given us about $50k over the last few years.  They're awesome, and they're our fallback.
- Just last night our freezer was full so we started looking online for an extra freezer to put in the garage
- You only have one sofa in your house? There's one for the living room, sitting room, basement, and we were thinking about one for the bedroom.
- I’m honestly surprised.  I thought everyone has multiple couches.  We also have 3 tv's. Living room, basement and bedroom.
- What about expensive items that happen to be GREAT DEALS?  For example. I've needed a remote car starter for a while. We live in NY and get dumped on with snow.  A local place is offering a remote car starter for only $199. (usually $500)
- We do, but it's full of stuff.   Kids motorized jeeps, and sports equipment, and tools and so forth. Thats in 1 spot.  And then my wifes vehicle is in the other spot.
- Not to make excuses (dont facepunch me!)  But...  there are at least 4 people (2 posters and their spouse) in just the last 10 posts or so, that make over $300k per year.   So they can save 80% and STILL make what I make lol.  Big difference there.   I bet most people on this site have very large incomes that make this easier.


These are the reasons why many of us question whether you are serious.  At the very least, these comments indicate that you just don't get it (yet). 

marty998

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7372
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #446 on: January 10, 2017, 02:10:40 PM »
MOD NOTE: OP has some good points, we can learn as a community from him, while he hopefully sticks around to learn from us. 

When you are responding, keep in mind the forum rules. Repeatedly calling someone a troll falls under the forum rule don't be a jerk. If you don't think it is worth it, or OP is not sincere, don't engage in the thread.


Thanks Swick. Mr MM deals out brutally honest facepuches, but he is never a jerk about it.

Sometimes I wonder if we all have spent too much time in our own echo chamber, and we are surprised that there are people out there who live otherwise normal lives, except for their spending habits.

Mr Beatles seems like a decent enough person. I don't expect him to change overnight (or his wife for that matter). Honestly I would suggest, take a break, come back in 3 months and post an update.

For people here to expect everything to change overnight immediately with updates every hour I think is a bridge too far to ask.
 

mustachepungoeshere

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2404
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #447 on: January 10, 2017, 02:18:22 PM »
Sorry Beatles.  I feel bad now, especially since apparently me and my mirror shard are pretty crazy.
I liked the story, FWIW. It's not something everyone's going to aspire to, but the extreme frugal stuff can help balance out the moderately frugal choices. If you feel like you're only getting a choice between fancy rosemary bread at $5/loaf, or cheap store bread at $1/loaf, the dollar bread can feel sad. If it's a choice though between those two options or growing your own wheat and handgrinding it to bake your own bread for free, that puts the middle choice of buying a normal loaf of bread into perspective. The normal loaf isn't an extreme sacrifice, it's just a routine purchase instead of a luxury one.

Same with your mirror - it makes it obvious that buying a cheapo mirror from target will get the job done without sacrificing any quality of life. 

Plus, I can't be the only one enjoying the image of you wandering around baja accosting people who are living beyond their means, and shanking them with your mirror shard.

Thanks jakejake.  Not to derail the thread too much, but I couldn't resist posting the picture of the offending mirror shard.  Cmon, It's a pretty decent shard!

That's a lovely shard!

I loved your story, and jakejake's violent dramatic interpretation.

Also not meaning to derail but...

A couple of times a year we stay with a mate who has one mirror - in his bathroom. For these trips he could have 15 people staying with him, I'm used to braiding my hair in the middle of three guys brushing their teeth and shaving.

I get it - my friend lives alone for 350 nights a year so one mirror is fine.

But if he's not going to buy a second mirror, and I'm not going to buy a mirror for someone else's house...

My in-laws were planning to toss a mirror when they moved. Boom. Free mirror.

katscratch

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1055
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #448 on: January 10, 2017, 02:22:02 PM »
^^ Thanks for the offer you two.

I'm hopping off for a bit, but I'll message you later.

For the rest of you, I want you to imagine something.

I want you to imagine that you wake up one day and you're tired of the way you're living.

You're tired of whatever it is that's causing you to live that way so you set out to change.

You Google a few things and it leads you to a website that shows you how to fix the problem in your life.

You find that this website has a message board where other people who had fixed the same problem you have, are discussing how great life is now without that problem.

So you join.

You spill your entire life to them. Your family, your finances, where you live, etc.

You're brand new to this and you dont understand a lot of the things they're telling you.

You try to grasp the concept but these are people who fixed the problem you are having years and years and years ago.

It's second hand nature to them.

To you, it's brand new.

You're a child, walking for the first time.

They are adults, running, doing marathons.

When you ask questions, you get sniped at for not knowing the answer.

For being so stupid to not understand.

For not realizing the intricacies of what you just learned 3 days prior.

You're called a troll. A dumbass.

How would you feel?

How long would you stick around?

Some of you are great people. But many of you, you're so used to this life that you dont realize that there are people who don't know the first thing about it.

The fact you take the time to thoughtfully respond shows a lot about your character.

I think it's impressive you're open to changing your entire worldview to make a better life for your family.  I think a lot of times people use language that gets the point across, rather than as if we were having a conversation with each other.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and can have the opposite effect of helping inspire someone.

To ME you are living a very typical American lifestyle.  So yeah, this is a huge mindshift for you to come here and be open to a different way of living.

The first time I was exposed to MMM's ideas it was a link a thread on the forums sent to me by a friend.  I've always lived fairly simply, more from a hippie-ish social group than from being good with my money, and I was so turned off by the judgmental attitudes from a few people I clicked out and didn't come back for years until I ran across an actual MMM article.

This pretty much sums up my feelings too: 
"Thanks Swick. Mr MM deals out brutally honest facepuches, but he is never a jerk about it."

One thing that took me a long time to figure out when I've looked for ideas about something in my life is that you have to sort out what works for you and what doesn't.  Take the parts that make sense to you right now and apply those, then slowly add to your changes as you develop those new money skills.  Some of the things I tried in the past to 'fix' my finances didn't work and some things that seemed impossible are pretty easy for me to do now.  You're on the right path already by just researching ideas in the first place!



I also agree that you should start a journal. 

:)

Jakejake

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 720
  • FIRE: June 17, 2016
Re: The beatles Case Study
« Reply #449 on: January 10, 2017, 02:23:23 PM »
I think the disconnect is in part because he's accustomed to getting into debt and being bailed out, whereas we've been internalizing the "hair-on-fire debt emergency" language.

Beatle: I like to set all the rooms on fire at once every day! And the driveway too! I see big flames, they're exciting, I enjoy them! Sometimes the fire department comes and saves us, but then I can start new fires!

MMMs: NO! Put the matches down now! Connect the hose to the hydrant and start spraying everything down!

The voice of moderation, as perceived by forum members: He can't change all at once! For now, just pick one room in your house that you don't set on fire - you can stop setting fire to the other rooms in a couple months!