Author Topic: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism  (Read 4428 times)

Jon Bon

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The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« on: January 26, 2021, 11:11:51 AM »
I have been on the boards for a while, and have seen folks respond differently to the same question. Often both answers are right, but it just depends on where you are in your stage of life. So this is what I completely made up. I thought of this as I have gotten to  “know” some of the users on here. Sometimes users will respond to posts in ways that very clearly reflects where they are personally on the FIRE path.  The Zealot might tell you to sell the paid off SUV yesterday, while the secret rich would just meh, just don’t drive it that much you will be fine. So for something light and silly I give you the 7 stages of Mustachianism:


1.   The Learner – Stumbles across MMM, thinks we are mostly insane. But sticks around long enough to read a few posts. Folks from hair on fire debt, to
      badass mustachian just without the name. Everyone starts here.
2.   The Newbie – Starts to make some adjustments. Starts tracking expenses and income. Starts asking what makes them happy and what are they just spending money on. Usually creates a MMM                profile but rarely posts.
3.   The Zealot – Wants to optimize everything down to zero. Sell your car, sell your bike, eat nothing but beans. Pee in the backyard to save a on water.
      Often these folks end up on ERE. Sets up a 10 year retirement countdown.
4.   The Transformed – Liabilities become assets, jobs become careers. New habits become life skills.  Early retirement moves from just a dream to a
       very real goal.
5.   The Autopilot – Has everything set to go, and grow on its own.  Drives a well-maintained car with no plans to upgrade in the next decade or so. Has
      a house they are just fine to live in.
6.   The Secret Rich – Left it on autopilot for a few years and discovered they are, actually rich. Likely could lean fire, but their life is currently pretty
      easy. Too young to retire to a beach so focuses on the work they like and ignores what they don’t.
7.   The Pursuit of Happiness – Folks that are quite rich either in dollars or fulfilment. They pursue what makes them happy, and the well being of others
      around them. Many still work jobs they find satisfying. Often these will spend money on bigger/better items because it does in fact increase their
      happiness and of course they can easily afford them.

What are you? What did I miss? What crazy attributes do you have that I should add to the list? It’s all just a silly exercise. I wanted to see if my prospective of these boards was very different from others.

Metalcat

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2021, 11:29:01 AM »
I jumped straight to 7 pretty quick once I realized that I envied Pete's post-FIRE life, where he is living his best life and making more money than when he was grinding.

So I basically said "fuck it" to the rest of the steps.

charis

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2021, 11:47:23 AM »
Currently # 5 Autopilot, hoping to be #6 secret rich in 4-5 years, and #7 within 8-9 years.

jeromedawg

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2021, 11:53:03 AM »
I think I'm currently in the 6 range somewhere...lol

Taking the plunge to 7 is what I'm wrestling with. I feel like I want to find the unicorn that "makes more money than when grinding" before taking the plunge but it seems like often the way to the unicorn is found by first taking the plunge. Ugh this is sounding pseudo-philosophical lol

Metalcat

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2021, 11:55:39 AM »
I think I'm currently in the 6 range somewhere...lol

Taking the plunge to 7 is what I'm wrestling with. I feel like I want to find the unicorn that "makes more money than when grinding" before taking the plunge but it seems like often the way to the unicorn is found by first taking the plunge. Ugh this is sounding pseudo-philosophical lol

Very philosophical

Alternatepriorities

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2021, 12:25:09 PM »
I never really inflated my spending after finishing my degree and basically went through stages 3-5 before finding out there was anyone else living this way. I was basically living the Autopilot life resigned to being "the weird one" when I found MMM and my initial reaction was "wow, financial advise that actually makes sense"! Then I dropped back to stage one for a while and picked up a bunch of new knowledge (like indexing) to expedite the process. Running out of blog to read pushed me over to the forum.

Ironically it was tracking expenses for the first time that made me realize we'd reached stage six and should start moving towards 7. I've always been "the ideal is zero" when it comes to budgeting. That drives DW crazy though so we had to find another option.

reeshau

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2021, 12:38:00 PM »
I think I'm currently in the 6 range somewhere...lol

Taking the plunge to 7 is what I'm wrestling with. I feel like I want to find the unicorn that "makes more money than when grinding" before taking the plunge but it seems like often the way to the unicorn is found by first taking the plunge. Ugh this is sounding pseudo-philosophical lol

I found, quite accidentally, that I made 5x my ending salary now that I am able to spend as much time as I want to actively investing.  (which is still < 3 hours per day, even when a lot of it is reading financial news and/or SEC filings)  My wife's response:  "And you're happier.  Exactly why didn't we do this sooner?"

Shouldn't #6 be "stealth wealth"?

NotJen

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2021, 12:54:06 PM »
I started at #5 - was already on autopilot when I decided to retire early and started reading MMM.  Didn't believe I was "too young" to retire, so I skipped #6 and guess I'm at #7 now, though still deciding exactly what to do/where to go next.

Zamboni

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2021, 01:10:35 PM »
Good for you as I think this is a pretty accurate list of the stages. I definitely went through all of those stages. This site (and books and other websites forum posters recommended) has been so wonderful for learning.

Feels like I'm a 6 going on 7 . . . I say this because I recently felt comfortable "upgrading" my house to one that fits our lives much better, and things like "buy a vehicle outright" for a child just doesn't even phase me anymore. But, I'm not quite a 7 because there are things I want to do that I feel I need to keep working in order to do, I guess? So, not quite to where I feel like I have all of the passive income I need for all the things that would add substantially to my happiness.

nburns

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2021, 01:11:02 PM »
I would say I am a mix of #2 and #4. 
#2 since I rarely post but find myself on here every day soaking up as much as I can and am always learning something.  Tracking all income and expenses, but still trying to figure out what really makes me happy.
#4 since I am currently on the path to FIRE and since finding MMM a lot has changed in my life.

Zikoris

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2021, 02:40:37 PM »
I started at a 3 coming straight from ERE, got everything automated as soon as I realized that was an option, and started building wealth shockingly fast. I think the biggest surprise was honestly how damn easy it all was. Like, I set FIRE on autopilot in 2012, did close t nothing after that, focused my efforts on enjoying life and hobbies, and boom less than ten years later, hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank.

Jon Bon

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2021, 02:47:48 PM »
I wonder if lots of the more active posters are 5-7. We have it mostly figured out and try to share a little wisdom?

I remember my zealot moment where I ran around my house like a crazy person replacing all the light bulbs. I had them in a box for months just never switched out the old incandescent. Obviously this is all made up and there are no rules. I definitely think I maybe still switch between stages. Which I believe is common in the 7 stages of grief as well.


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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2021, 02:53:15 PM »
I’d say your perspective seems quite accurate. We went through all the stages in the order you listed and are currently at 6/7. Once we hit 6 and realized we have a pile of FU money, we started making “risky” decisions that were outside the box, like jumping out of the rat race, no longer focusing on climbing the corporate ladder, taking lower paying jobs, and applying for interesting stretch jobs. We also upgraded our lifestyle, but because we approached it from an optimization mindset we were able to evaluate and make choices that significantly upgraded our lifestyle without spending significantly more money.

ixtap

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2021, 03:27:01 PM »
I started at #5 - was already on autopilot when I decided to retire early and started reading MMM.  Didn't believe I was "too young" to retire, so I skipped #6 and guess I'm at #7 now, though still deciding exactly what to do/where to go next.

We were on autopilot, but with a goal to save up 10x in taxable for an extended sabbatical, expecting to return to work. When research on how to manage our funds led us to FIRE and MMM, it was kind of step backward. Kind of not, too. The time to goal difference was not a significant change, it was just a different perspective. Interestingly, the MBR meant we diverted enough away from taxable, that we actually ended up with 25x about a year before 10x in taxable.

I guess we are at 6.5, just waiting to finish up a couple of projects and have the freedom to travel without endangering others in order to get on with our sabbatical plans. Enjoying the idea of a bit of extra padding in the meantime.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2021, 03:37:50 PM by ixtap »

goat_music_generator

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2021, 03:28:28 PM »
I've been ping ponging between 3 and 5 basically since I found MMM's blog.

Hoping to level up to 7 after my imminent RE.

wenchsenior

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2021, 03:49:58 PM »
Just shifting to 6 this year after about 10 years at 4 and 5. 

mistymoney

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2021, 04:07:39 PM »
NOTA

legalstache

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2021, 04:25:22 PM »
Nice post idea. I can see myself having gone through the stages. I think I've been at a 5 for a few years now. Hoping to be at 6 in a few more and then 7 a few more after that.

HPstache

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2021, 04:31:08 PM »
Started at 1 and now I feel like I'm 5, kinda skipped 3.  I'm very much on autopilot but still learning new things to speed up the journey.

FLBiker

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2021, 06:47:20 AM »
This seems pretty accurate, not necessarily for each individual's journey, but to capture the various stages that posters are at.  Good encapsulation!

I'd say I kind of started at 3, way before I ever encountered this board or the concept of FIRE (other than in my own mind, where I encountered it in highschool).  And I'm definitely at 6 now, even though I often feel more like 5, and may actually be ready for 7.  We recently moved from the US to Canada, though, and I want to get a better handle on our expenses before I say we're at 7.  I suspect I'm being too conservative, though. :)  Plus, DW and I will likely both continue to work PT in some capacity, which we could definitely afford.  Right now, though, I'm still FT.

Mrs Brightside

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2021, 10:18:59 AM »
Fun topic! Spent the last ~2 years going from stage 2 to 4. Basically hanging out around 5 and starting to feel closer to a 6...


I actually do think dealing with personal finances is similar to the 7 stages of grief for some people. Denial... Depression... Acceptance & Hope. Unfortunately many people I know are stuck at the first one.

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2021, 10:52:10 AM »
I'm definitely in 7. When covid hit and we were told to burn all our vacation days so our numbers looked better (medical staff in a hospital) I negotiated down to .8 FTE rather than use all my vacation days. Now I still have all my vacation days and 1 extra vacation day a week. :D  Having reached an FU/FI number has allowed me to get what I want and has made me a LOT happier.

anni

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2021, 11:19:28 AM »
I think I went a little too hard in the paint during my Zealot phase and it really backfired, lol - went from putting 70% of my salary toward my student loans to maybe 20% after I got sick of never doing anything.... after about a year of partying I returned to a happy medium :) now trying to nail down that "career" part so I can enjoy the ride to #6-#7!

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2021, 11:25:39 AM »
I like this topic. I think I'm a 5 or 6. I'm definitely at the point that I could just coast, and I could probably lean FIRE if I sold my house and moved someplace way cheaper.  I just switched to a job I like better that will give me more time off as well.  I would probably make a good 3 if I didn't have family along for the ride.

Some more categories, in no particular order, not meant to insult anybody:

The Single Issue Voter You know who you are: pay the mortgage, don't pay the mortgage, etc.

The Ultraconservative Has 50k in emergency fund even though expenses are 25K. Wants to have half of portfolio in bonds and a 2.5% withdrawal rate. A fan of dollar-cost averaging. Every year is one more year.

The Doomsday Prepper Has a year's supply of food and ammo and also a bunch of cash under the mattress. Thinks gold is a good investment and also, for some reason, Bitcoins.

The Dave Ramsey Fan A subtype of stage 2. Puts everything in Roth.

Other Keeps financial information secret. Just here to hang out and swap recipes. A fun group.


Metalcat

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2021, 11:27:26 AM »
I like this topic. I think I'm a 5 or 6. I'm definitely at the point that I could just coast, and I could probably lean FIRE if I sold my house and moved someplace way cheaper.  I just switched to a job I like better that will give me more time off as well.  I would probably make a good 3 if I didn't have family along for the ride.

Some more categories, in no particular order, not meant to insult anybody:

The Single Issue Voter You know who you are: pay the mortgage, don't pay the mortgage, etc.

The Ultraconservative Has 50k in emergency fund even though expenses are 25K. Wants to have half of portfolio in bonds and a 2.5% withdrawal rate. A fan of dollar-cost averaging. Every year is one more year.

The Doomsday Prepper Has a year's supply of food and ammo and also a bunch of cash under the mattress. Thinks gold is a good investment and also, for some reason, Bitcoins.

The Dave Ramsey Fan A subtype of stage 2. Puts everything in Roth.

Other Keeps financial information secret. Just here to hang out and swap recipes. A fun group.

I don't relate to anything on your list...I don't really understand the categories.

Alternatepriorities

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2021, 11:40:52 AM »
The Doomsday Prepper Has a year's supply of food and ammo and also a bunch of cash under the mattress. Thinks gold is a good investment and also, for some reason, Bitcoins.

I'm not prepper, but after the last year, having a few months worth of food and TP stashed is looking a lot less paranoid and more practical...

As for gold, if things actually got bad enough that people were trading in gold, I predict that lead will be a more urgently needed commodity and no one is going to care about bitcoins. Planning for that kind of future seems like it would suck all the joy out of life now.

Metalcat

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2021, 11:51:17 AM »
My two categories of folks on the FIRE path:

The Futurists: People who see happiness and fulfillment as something that exists for them in the future, today is for toiling to get there eventually. These people need to achieve a certain level of wealth before they can put life satisfaction at the top of the priority list.

The Nowists: People who are currently prioritizing their life satisfaction, who aren't willing to compromise their happiness and wellbeing today for the sake of a planned/imagined future. Saving for their future is *part* of living their best life now, not a prerequisite for it.

ixtap

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2021, 01:21:08 PM »
My two categories of folks on the FIRE path:

The Futurists: People who see happiness and fulfillment as something that exists for them in the future, today is for toiling to get there eventually. These people need to achieve a certain level of wealth before they can put life satisfaction at the top of the priority list.

The Nowists: People who are currently prioritizing their life satisfaction, who aren't willing to compromise their happiness and wellbeing today for the sake of a planned/imagined future. Saving for their future is *part* of living their best life now, not a prerequisite for it.

I hope the second group is larger than the first!

wellnessmobile

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2021, 08:47:47 AM »
Haha this is great! I definitely hover for #3 because it fires me up and I love ERE. But I still fit in the #4 as well due to planning and realizing that I can grind for 5 years to hit FI.

I am competitive so #3 appeals to me. Every time some tells me that it's crazy to run to work in 30 degree weather or when its raining, it makes me want to do it more. Or when I am riding my bike passing people in their clown cars at red lights. One day I actually had someone in a car look at me with pity on his face and asked if I needed a ride; I was literally riding my bike! I wonder if I can start reversing questions on people. Although I will end up being the jerk. Coworkers also give me a hard time because I never join the "lunch push". They go out to eat 5 days a week for lunch!

#3 fires me up so I want to be there! As David Goggins says, "who is going to carry the boat?".

2sk22

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2021, 03:40:27 PM »
Attempts at categorization inevitably remind me of the Celestial Emporium Benevolent Knowledge (a bit of drollery from Jorge Luis Borges)

Quote
In response to this proposal and in order to illustrate the arbitrariness and cultural specificity of any attempt to categorize the world, Borges describes this example of an alternate taxonomy, supposedly taken from an ancient Chinese encyclopædia entitled Celestial Emporium of Benevolent Knowledge.

😀


Malossi792

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2021, 01:52:03 AM »
Fun thread!
I think I'm a mix of 3-5. Definitely would be a 3 if I was single.
Also trying to automate as much as I can. Investments I sadly can't (cheap enough), but that at least takes away a bit of the boredom of the accumulation phase. You know, when you already got the basics, have a good SR that you can't easily (or are not willing to) optimise much further, got the FU attitude but maybe not actual FU money... And just wait and wait :)

Metalcat

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2021, 06:20:49 AM »
Fun thread!
I think I'm a mix of 3-5. Definitely would be a 3 if I was single.
Also trying to automate as much as I can. Investments I sadly can't (cheap enough), but that at least takes away a bit of the boredom of the accumulation phase. You know, when you already got the basics, have a good SR that you can't easily (or are not willing to) optimise much further, got the FU attitude but maybe not actual FU money... And just wait and wait :)

This is what my meant by a "Futurist". There are a ton of Mustachians who are anxiously waiting for the future, and would rather live there than the present.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2021, 06:27:55 AM »
I’m probably in Step 4 and I won’t switch to Step 5 until I get rid of my student loans, so that’ll probably take about a year. Those student loans are really weighing me down.

Ladychips

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2021, 08:56:49 AM »
These seem accurate to me.  I don't think I was ever at stage #3 (zealot) but then I realized most zealots wouldn't identify themselves as such.  So probably I did #3 as well.

I just reached # 6 a month or so ago,  In fact, I even posted something about that in my journal.  One day, I calculated my networth and realized I'm richer than I ever dreamed of being.  Weird feeling.

Fun post - thanks for adding it!
« Last Edit: February 01, 2021, 07:19:12 PM by Ladychips »

Malossi792

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2021, 03:36:54 PM »
Fun thread!
I think I'm a mix of 3-5. Definitely would be a 3 if I was single.
Also trying to automate as much as I can. Investments I sadly can't (cheap enough), but that at least takes away a bit of the boredom of the accumulation phase. You know, when you already got the basics, have a good SR that you can't easily (or are not willing to) optimise much further, got the FU attitude but maybe not actual FU money... And just wait and wait :)

This is what my meant by a "Futurist". There are a ton of Mustachians who are anxiously waiting for the future, and would rather live there than the present.
Guilty as charged.
Hate most of my job, but there is just not much I can do about that right now. Too many years of my life invested in getting into this particular career path... Would have to start my whole life all over to change trajectory. That just seems easier if one already has the money-making part figured out.
But apart from work? Life is pretty awesome.

poetdereves

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2021, 04:11:04 PM »
I'd say that DW and I are somewhere between 4-5. If everything goes as planned I think we will see 6 in the next few years based of letting things continue to go as they are. The nice thing is that I finally feel that we hit a tipping point where the potential risk of going backwards is not as likely as the potential payout of being shot forward more quickly. If things took a turn for the worse for the next couple years we would most likely still be in the same 4-5 spot since we have our lives pretty optimized and could manage living on less, but if somehow we stumbled upon a stroke of luck with some raises or a good investment or two we'd be catapulted toward the 6-7 range even quicker than planned. It took a long time to reach that point, so it feels really nice.

bbates728

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2021, 10:47:25 AM »
My two categories of folks on the FIRE path:

The Futurists: People who see happiness and fulfillment as something that exists for them in the future, today is for toiling to get there eventually. These people need to achieve a certain level of wealth before they can put life satisfaction at the top of the priority list.

The Nowists: People who are currently prioritizing their life satisfaction, who aren't willing to compromise their happiness and wellbeing today for the sake of a planned/imagined future. Saving for their future is *part* of living their best life now, not a prerequisite for it.

Dammit Malcat, you got me pegged in the first group. *grumbles incoherently*

ixtap

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2021, 11:02:47 AM »
My two categories of folks on the FIRE path:

The Futurists: People who see happiness and fulfillment as something that exists for them in the future, today is for toiling to get there eventually. These people need to achieve a certain level of wealth before they can put life satisfaction at the top of the priority list.

The Nowists: People who are currently prioritizing their life satisfaction, who aren't willing to compromise their happiness and wellbeing today for the sake of a planned/imagined future. Saving for their future is *part* of living their best life now, not a prerequisite for it.

There is a poster over in bogleheads who insists their job is sucking their life away, but it is the best thing for them to do for their family. And anyone who can't see that they are literally right and perfectly rational is obtuse. I guess they are just hard core futurists.

Metalcat

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2021, 11:43:56 AM »
My two categories of folks on the FIRE path:

The Futurists: People who see happiness and fulfillment as something that exists for them in the future, today is for toiling to get there eventually. These people need to achieve a certain level of wealth before they can put life satisfaction at the top of the priority list.

The Nowists: People who are currently prioritizing their life satisfaction, who aren't willing to compromise their happiness and wellbeing today for the sake of a planned/imagined future. Saving for their future is *part* of living their best life now, not a prerequisite for it.

There is a poster over in bogleheads who insists their job is sucking their life away, but it is the best thing for them to do for their family. And anyone who can't see that they are literally right and perfectly rational is obtuse. I guess they are just hard core futurists.

Classic futurists.

They tend to be wildly successful people who have utterly abysmal mental health, but that's okay because they're getting shit done...right? Right?!

Lol, I used to be one of them. I used to take great pride in describing myself as "an extremely outcome oriented person"...which now makes me both cringe and chuckle at myself.

JGS1980

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2021, 01:05:22 PM »
This post should be a sticky. Fairly accurate. Might want to put in OMY indefinitely category for those who don't quite get to #7 as they get caught in the details/process of obtaining FI and have trouble leaving.

Morning Glory

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2021, 02:01:09 PM »
This post should be a sticky. Fairly accurate. Might want to put in OMY indefinitely category for those who don't quite get to #7 as they get caught in the details/process of obtaining FI and have trouble leaving.
Ugh my mom is one of those.  Complains about her job all the time, has more than enough to retire, just bought another car instead. 

Maybe some subcategories of #6 for people who downshift, take sabbaticals, barista FI, etc. Or those of us who have to work for health insurance even though we are pretty much FI for all other expenses (which will be me if I downsize my house). Or people who genuinely love their jobs and spend freely with the knowledge that they can happily work forever (I know a few but they don't hang out here).

I am a recovering futurist. I recently had a relapse and signed up for a grad school class on top of all the other shit I have going on. Gahh.  I'm too conscientious to drop the class because I got in off a waiting list which means I took a spot that somebody else wanted, so I'm trying my best.

ChpBstrd

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2021, 02:05:04 PM »
I think between steps 4 and 5 some people go through "4.5) Impatience". You have about 65-85% of your FIRE number and years remaining, work is a tedious bore, you find yourself looking out the office window on bluebird days imagining what you'll be doing once you get over that hump, and you start taking more and more investment risk in the hopes of getting there faster. The people posting about their crypto/Tesla/Gamestop/random-small-biotech investments probably fit this mode, as do the people trying to juice everything with options and futures. A bear market would leave a lot of them in despair.

At this stage, FIRE plans actually become a mental burden, discouraging advancement at work and investments in new marketable skills. Life becomes a game of waiting and watching the stock market zig zag. Getting to autopilot stage is the only way out.


My two categories of folks on the FIRE path:

The Futurists: People who see happiness and fulfillment as something that exists for them in the future, today is for toiling to get there eventually. These people need to achieve a certain level of wealth before they can put life satisfaction at the top of the priority list.

The Nowists: People who are currently prioritizing their life satisfaction, who aren't willing to compromise their happiness and wellbeing today for the sake of a planned/imagined future. Saving for their future is *part* of living their best life now, not a prerequisite for it.

I'm definitely a futurist, but I have my reasons. While one is dependent upon a job, it is simply not possible to prioritize happiness and wellbeing in the present, when what one is actually doing is spending most waking hours doing something one would rather not be doing. One can strive for work/life balance, but consuming those 8-9 best hours 5 days each week (more if you're even a moderately heavy hitter) is prioritizing work, not life. Until FIRE, there are few alternatives to prioritizing work - being out of a job is a financial emergency for the non-FIRE, unless one is doing some kind of planned sabbatical. It is important to live in the present, particularly when one is off work, but I can't kid myself and say I spend the best portion of my day living my best life. I'm squeezing life into the time left over, and so I'm putting work first. That's a fact, and there's no pretending we aren't working for the weekend, and the retirement.

Metalcat

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2021, 02:23:16 PM »
I think between steps 4 and 5 some people go through "4.5) Impatience". You have about 65-85% of your FIRE number and years remaining, work is a tedious bore, you find yourself looking out the office window on bluebird days imagining what you'll be doing once you get over that hump, and you start taking more and more investment risk in the hopes of getting there faster. The people posting about their crypto/Tesla/Gamestop/random-small-biotech investments probably fit this mode, as do the people trying to juice everything with options and futures. A bear market would leave a lot of them in despair.

At this stage, FIRE plans actually become a mental burden, discouraging advancement at work and investments in new marketable skills. Life becomes a game of waiting and watching the stock market zig zag. Getting to autopilot stage is the only way out.


My two categories of folks on the FIRE path:

The Futurists: People who see happiness and fulfillment as something that exists for them in the future, today is for toiling to get there eventually. These people need to achieve a certain level of wealth before they can put life satisfaction at the top of the priority list.

The Nowists: People who are currently prioritizing their life satisfaction, who aren't willing to compromise their happiness and wellbeing today for the sake of a planned/imagined future. Saving for their future is *part* of living their best life now, not a prerequisite for it.

I'm definitely a futurist, but I have my reasons. While one is dependent upon a job, it is simply not possible to prioritize happiness and wellbeing in the present, when what one is actually doing is spending most waking hours doing something one would rather not be doing. One can strive for work/life balance, but consuming those 8-9 best hours 5 days each week (more if you're even a moderately heavy hitter) is prioritizing work, not life. Until FIRE, there are few alternatives to prioritizing work - being out of a job is a financial emergency for the non-FIRE, unless one is doing some kind of planned sabbatical. It is important to live in the present, particularly when one is off work, but I can't kid myself and say I spend the best portion of my day living my best life. I'm squeezing life into the time left over, and so I'm putting work first. That's a fact, and there's no pretending we aren't working for the weekend, and the retirement.

Just to be clear, that's YOUR reality, and the reality of a lot of people, but it's not everyone's.


begood

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2021, 09:07:35 AM »
#5 + recent stock market led us to #6 without really being aware of it. We live in provided housing at my husband's job, and I think that alone has probably made an incalculable difference in our net worth over the past 11 years.

simonsez

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2021, 12:23:23 PM »
1.   The Learner – Stumbles across MMM, thinks we are mostly insane. But sticks around long enough to read a few posts. Folks from hair on fire debt, to badass mustachian just without the name. Everyone starts here.
2.   The Newbie – Starts to make some adjustments. Starts tracking expenses and income. Starts asking what makes them happy and what are they just spending money on. Usually creates a MMM profile but rarely posts.
3.   The Zealot – Wants to optimize everything down to zero. Sell your car, sell your bike, eat nothing but beans. Pee in the backyard to save a on water.  Often these folks end up on ERE. Sets up a 10 year retirement countdown.
4.   The Transformed – Liabilities become assets, jobs become careers. New habits become life skills.  Early retirement moves from just a dream to a very real goal.
5.   The Autopilot – Has everything set to go, and grow on its own.  Drives a well-maintained car with no plans to upgrade in the next decade or so. Has a house they are just fine to live in.
6.   The Secret Rich – Left it on autopilot for a few years and discovered they are, actually rich. Likely could lean fire, but their life is currently pretty easy. Too young to retire to a beach so focuses on the work they like and ignores what they don’t.
7.   The Pursuit of Happiness – Folks that are quite rich either in dollars or fulfilment. They pursue what makes them happy, and the well being of others around them. Many still work jobs they find satisfying. Often these will spend money on bigger/better items because it does in fact increase their happiness and of course they can easily afford them.
Taking this literally,

Stage 1 - Never really thought MMM was insane, rather the opposite as it resonated with how I already was.  Was introduced to MMM by a co-worker who thought I would like it since I'm known as the personal finance guy at work.  Depth of knowledge has definitely increased!

Stage 2 - I haven't made adjustments that I hadn't planned on doing already.  I guess I can credit having an IDP to MMM.  I've never tracked expenses or made a budget beyond checking my credit cards once in awhile to make sure I wasn't hacked or to keep bank account at a certain level.

Stage 3 - I do pee in the backyard but that has more to do with being lazy after drinking beers throwing darts in the detached garage rather than saving on water.  Did downgrade to a 1 car household but that was the plan prior to ever hearing of MMM.  I guess I am a little bit of a zealot when it comes to index funds but that's a personal thing and I don't try to convince others how to invest.  Never really compromised on the food I eat other than trying new things or going vegan here and there to show solidarity for my wife but that's independent of MMM.

Stage 4 - Yeah, that's accurate with the exception of early retirement.  Early retirement isn't really the goal but am saving like it is (or trying to) just in case that's what I/we want to do.

Stage 5 - Yes and No for this stage.  I do have no plans to upgrade our current vehicle or move from the house any time soon but also don't even max out all tax-advantaged accounts yet.  I've only been maxing TSP for 4 years, HSA for 3, and Roth IRA for 1.  I do not have a taxable account and wife does not currently max out 403b or 457.  Hard to feel like I'm on auto-pilot until all the tax-advantaged space is utilized.  Have plenty of fat to trim if maxing tax-advantaged space was top priority but it just isn't.  Will get there eventually.

Stage 6 - Life is currently super easy and just enjoying the ride but as mentioned, def not on auto-pilot nor near lean fire.  Will probably never live far from where I currently do, 2.5 hrs to in-laws lakehouse and 2 hrs in roughly the opposite direction to my family's rural property and most friends/family within 20 min of current house.

Stage 7 - Pretty fulfilled overall, purchase mostly whatever I want.  Don't have the money yet to do the silly things I want to do (solar panel/tile EVERYTHING, own some land to screw around with growing more things, and a great pool) but wouldn't trade my life with anyone.  Both our careers are in public service and are pretty satisfying, plenty of time off to travel or pursue leisure activities.

Firmly identify the most with stage 4.  Not impatient at all, time is moving way too fast as it is.

djadziadax

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2021, 03:10:44 AM »
I feel like we are between stage 6 (lean FI, secretly feeling rich), but still have quite the anxiety over stage 7 as I am not sure what a pursuit of happiness means for me and us.

We started in April 2017 at stage 2.

I remember vividly stage 3, when I went to ERE, and was seriously discussing how Jacob has a $100 food budget because he likes rice, oats, and lentils. The high point of the zealot stage was when I saved most of the balloons from a birthday party so I can reuse them the next year (gasp!). Also remember being quite agreeable to let MIL live with us for 2 years doing full time child care in our tiny 700 sq. ft. home because it would save us thousands in childcare dollars.

2018-2020 was stage 4-5.

2021 with all its faults has vaulted us into stage 6....


Metta

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2021, 10:48:03 AM »
I was a happy 2 (Nowist) married to a serious 4 (Futurist). Discovered MMM and realized that we had slid into 6 but with a tiny bit of extra effort on my part to frugalize for a few years, I could be a 7 filled with freedom and joy, working for myself on the things that brought me my greatest joys. Which is where I am right now.

My husband remains a 6, still working and financially secure able to FIRE anytime he wants. I think he may 7 up soon.

Plina

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Re: The 7 Stages of Mustachianism
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2021, 11:52:10 AM »
My two categories of folks on the FIRE path:

The Futurists: People who see happiness and fulfillment as something that exists for them in the future, today is for toiling to get there eventually. These people need to achieve a certain level of wealth before they can put life satisfaction at the top of the priority list.

The Nowists: People who are currently prioritizing their life satisfaction, who aren't willing to compromise their happiness and wellbeing today for the sake of a planned/imagined future. Saving for their future is *part* of living their best life now, not a prerequisite for it.

I struggle between these categories. I have thought about changing careers and going back to school to do it, but eventuellt ended up not doing it. I like parts of my work and hate parts of it. I rather make good money the coming years then start again on a much lower level. Right now I am a futurists. The pandemic sucks but it is good for your financial life so I am trying to use it for my advantage. Normally, I am more of a nowist because you never know if there is a future. A friends husband died of cancer in a less than a year and we were of same age. It made me realize it is a bad strategy to leave everything to a future that might not be there so I have tried to find a balance between saving and living in the now. I rather work a year or two longer.

I have most of the stuff on autopilot except the investing but I have a system for it.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!