Teaching math to DD (Elementary school)

[jamesbond007]

DD is in 2nd grade. She is good at addition, subtraction, word problems, 2 step word problems, multiplication, geometry basics (measurements, perimeter calculation, etc.), time and money and getting started with division (She gets the intuition). She can write an equation based on the word problem and find the unknown value.


We've resisted sending her for tutoring like Russian School of Math etc. as they cost about $200 per month. I have a computer science degree and there is no reason I cannot teach myself and that is what I did. The problem is, where do I find the teaching material or say, the syllabus? Can I purchase somewhere? RSM or its equivalent somewhere?  Could you point me in the right direction?


So far, we've bought those Kumon workbooks from Amazon for practice. Where do we go from here?


Thank you.

[CanCD]

Have you checked out Khan academy ? They have math by grade level and subject. I have only used it for my physics course, and it was unbelievably useful.
Also, it is a donation based service. Pay what you like.

Ps I'm looking forward to doing the same with my kids when they go to school. Awesome job.

[jamesbond007]

Thank you. Khan Academy did not even cross my mind. Duh. Great suggestion. Thank you. Any recommendations for practice problems?

[Steeze]

You might try a homeschooling curriculum store for materials if you are looking to purchase workbooks;

https://thecurriculumstore.com/shop-by-subject/math/grades-1-5-1/?sort=bestselling

[trollwithamustache]

You may not need much materials.

I'm well over a decade out of date on where you are at, but my general criticism of math in school was

1. The kids can do very little math in their heads.
2. The schools didn't make them practice a lot and you got to redo homework to get a better grade... so the emphasis on the right answer wasn't there.

The schools did do a great job with the number line and I think more kids have a deeper theoretical background. (if they paid attention)

At the younger ages, we just played around asking lots of questions building up doing the current school math in their heads. A few here and there, ideally you would do a better job than I did of not wearing them out.

[NextTime]

We know a few families who like this one:

ixl.com

[MrThatsDifferent]

DD is in 2nd grade. She is good at addition, subtraction, word problems, 2 step word problems, multiplication, geometry basics (measurements, perimeter calculation, etc.), time and money and getting started with division (She gets the intuition). She can write an equation based on the word problem and find the unknown value.


We've resisted sending her for tutoring like Russian School of Math etc. as they cost about $200 per month. I have a computer science degree and there is no reason I cannot teach myself and that is what I did. The problem is, where do I find the teaching material or say, the syllabus? Can I purchase somewhere? RSM or its equivalent somewhere?  Could you point me in the right direction?


So far, we've bought those Kumon workbooks from Amazon for practice. Where do we go from here?


Thank you.

I’m confused, you say she is already good at math and checking off every box in 2nd grade, so what’s driving your need for extra emphasis? Has she asked for more math homework? Has her teachers identified areas of concern or development? Or is this about you wanting to accelerate her math skills? If so, what’s motivating that? Are you trying to direct her life and career now, while she’s in 2nd grade?

[Sibley]

I have concerns along the line of MrThatsDifferent. If she's struggling with math, then getting her appropriate help is a good thing. But it sounds like she's at/above grade level already, so this is really you pushing her further.

Your kid is a kid. If she happens to be really good at math, awesome. She's still a kid. She needs to move and play. If you add math into daily life and make it fun, then she'll get more practice with math. Be careful that you don't push too hard and burn her out. I'm sure everyone knows someone who was pushed too hard as kids and it backfired long term.

In elementary school, I don't see any long term benefit to advancing a kid's abilities far beyond their peers. You're just going to set her up for social problems later, when she's put into math classes years ahead of her peers. At best, she will be ignored by her much older classmates. More likely they'll be unkind. Do you want her to be so miserable in math class in middle/high school that she decides she hates math?

She has plenty of time to gobble up all the math lessons later. Make sure that she's got a solid basis in reading and writing, and make sure she's got a good childhood. The math will work itself out.

[jeninco]

Wow, that's ... a perspective.

I'd say that if your kid is interested in, and excited by math, go for it -- it's something you can do together. Our district will (generally) try to place kids in the appropriate classes (this may take some doing from parents in elementary school, depending on the school) and will send them to the local college for classes if they run off the top of what's available. And my kids have been in Calculus classes where the occasional younger kid is in there (and doing well) and haven't reported anyone being a jerk about it. Looks like some districts may not have yet achieved that.

Agreed, please also help your child learn to read and write, but I don't get the "discouraging math" thing, especially for girls. Sheesh.

[Dee18]

I also think highly of Khan academy.  It wasn't around when my daughter was in second grade, but she got involved in GEMS (girls engaged in math and science--if you google it you'll find many local clubs), attended a two week summer math camp that really challenged her, and loved for me to give her math problems to do in her head when we were in the car.  The one thing I didn't do that I wish I had was bake more with her...a great way to learn measurements of liquids, solids, time, etc.  She is now a young adult with a full time job she loves, but she tutors middle school students in math by Zoom for a hobby.

[jamesbond007]

Thanks for the perspectives and suggestions. She is good at what is doing. The problem is she is complaining that her school is boring as her teacher is teaching the math that she already knows. According to her teacher, she is at grade 4 reading level, and she reads a lot at home. Comics, chapter books, science text etc. I want to make sure she is not bored at home too doing the same thing over and over. So I want to slowly introduce her to slightly more complex topics just to guage her interest and how she feels. I am worried that prolonged boredom at school is a bad thing. I want her to have fun and make lots friends at school. We are by no means starving her of anything. We don;t put her in many extra-curricular classes. She enjoys Karate and that is the only thing she does after school. On weekdays, she finishes her homework, watches Disney+ for an hour then spends time with us chatting or does some drawing and painting. On weekends we emphasize not doing anything academic as a sit down activity. We take her out for walks, hikes, museums or we clean our house together as a family. Of course, she meets her friends and cousins throughout the week multiple times.

She getting bored at school because her teacher is teaching stuff she already knows is our only concern now.

[dividendman]

DD is in 2nd grade. She is good at addition, subtraction, word problems, 2 step word problems, multiplication, geometry basics (measurements, perimeter calculation, etc.), time and money and getting started with division (She gets the intuition). She can write an equation based on the word problem and find the unknown value.


We've resisted sending her for tutoring like Russian School of Math etc. as they cost about $200 per month. I have a computer science degree and there is no reason I cannot teach myself and that is what I did. The problem is, where do I find the teaching material or say, the syllabus? Can I purchase somewhere? RSM or its equivalent somewhere?  Could you point me in the right direction?


So far, we've bought those Kumon workbooks from Amazon for practice. Where do we go from here?


Thank you.

I’m confused, you say she is already good at math and checking off every box in 2nd grade, so what’s driving your need for extra emphasis? Has she asked for more math homework? Has her teachers identified areas of concern or development? Or is this about you wanting to accelerate her math skills? If so, what’s motivating that? Are you trying to direct her life and career now, while she’s in 2nd grade?

For my son we try to go well beyond what school is "teaching" in all subjects. The motivation is that the US public school system is ridiculous in how they slow walk everyone through every subject regardless of their aptitude, effort, or willingness to learn.

What's the reason that a kid in grade three can't deal with fractions? What's the reason to not have kids read more difficult books to expand their vocabulary? Not learning to read music or different languages is also a mystery to me.

Once they know how to multiply why can't we teach them the physics of velocity and acceleration?

Anyway, I guess my motivation is that the curriculum is too basic and kids, like everyone, adapt to their environment.

[jamesbond007]

DD is in 2nd grade. She is good at addition, subtraction, word problems, 2 step word problems, multiplication, geometry basics (measurements, perimeter calculation, etc.), time and money and getting started with division (She gets the intuition). She can write an equation based on the word problem and find the unknown value.


We've resisted sending her for tutoring like Russian School of Math etc. as they cost about $200 per month. I have a computer science degree and there is no reason I cannot teach myself and that is what I did. The problem is, where do I find the teaching material or say, the syllabus? Can I purchase somewhere? RSM or its equivalent somewhere?  Could you point me in the right direction?


So far, we've bought those Kumon workbooks from Amazon for practice. Where do we go from here?


Thank you.

I’m confused, you say she is already good at math and checking off every box in 2nd grade, so what’s driving your need for extra emphasis? Has she asked for more math homework? Has her teachers identified areas of concern or development? Or is this about you wanting to accelerate her math skills? If so, what’s motivating that? Are you trying to direct her life and career now, while she’s in 2nd grade?

For my son we try to go well beyond what school is "teaching" in all subjects. The motivation is that the US public school system is ridiculous in how they slow walk everyone through every subject regardless of their aptitude, effort, or willingness to learn.

What's the reason that a kid in grade three can't deal with fractions? What's the reason to not have kids read more difficult books to expand their vocabulary? Not learning to read music or different languages is also a mystery to me.

Once they know how to multiply why can't we teach them the physics of velocity and acceleration?

Anyway, I guess my motivation is that the curriculum is too basic and kids, like everyone, adapt to their environment.

This is accurate. Especially with what is going in California right now with the proposed changes to math curriculum. It's a shit show.

[dividendman]

For California for math you can get the "GoMath" books, they're exactly what they teach. Just get the workbooks off of amazon for whatever grades you need.

[Freedomin5]

We know a few families who like this one:

ixl.com

I second IXL. DD (also in Grade 2) uses it for additional math practice.

If your daughter is already reading at an advanced level and complaining that school is boring, you may wish to have her assessed for intellectual giftedness to see if she might qualify for your district’s GATE program.

[NV Teacher]

You can find the state curriculum standards on your department of education website.  There you will find the standards for each grade level and each subject roughly organized in teaching sequence.  https://achievethecore.org/coherence-map/  This may be a useful resource because it shows what concepts are taught before and after a particular standard which is of particular importance in math. 

[KCM5]

It sounds like you should be looking for math that they don’t teach in school. Logic games, perhaps? Or move outside of that to things like chess or coding. If she finds it boring to learn math she already knows in school, the solution is not to accelerate her at home, it’s to expand her horizons at home!

Other suggestions: speed cubing, physical games like kanoodle, logic puzzles (my daughter likes this one she just picked out called Cat Crimes)

[jeninco]

Oh! I just remembered -- does her school have a Math Olympiad program? If not, perhaps you can start one (thus helping not only your child, but any other kids in a similar boat). There's a level aimed at 3-6th graders (and it sounds like she'd be fine), and I think it comes with a fair amount of instruction for the instructors. Our elementary schools ran it (er, I ran it with one other person) as an after-school activity, and it's pretty friendly in terms of posing problems that can be correctly solved in a whole slew of different ways.

You could just get the old tests and start her working on the problems, but the social aspect can be nice, too. And kids learn a bit about how to work together.

The "Math Counts" program, on the other hand, kinda sucks (IMHO).

[MrThatsDifferent]

It sounds like you should be looking for math that they don’t teach in school. Logic games, perhaps? Or move outside of that to things like chess or coding. If she finds it boring to learn math she already knows in school, the solution is not to accelerate her at home, it’s to expand her horizons at home!

Other suggestions: speed cubing, physical games like kanoodle, logic puzzles (my daughter likes this one she just picked out called Cat Crimes)

These are good suggestions. Also, if my kid had extra mental energy to burn I’d have them learning another language, something that will open up their world.

[K_in_the_kitchen]

I have some anecdotes and a recommendation.

1) In grade 2 I was identified as a gifted student.  This was in California, but gifted programs weren't what they are now.  I was sent to a grade 3 classroom for math.  In grade 3 we moved and I was able to go a school that clustered gifted students together in classrooms (still the thing I think works best), and I was able to do math with the 4th graders, which was more advanced that what the non gifted grade 4 students did.  In grade 4 we moved again.  I started at a school that didn't have a gifted program at all, but my mom advocated for me and got me into a school with grade 4-6 students clustered together.  We had classroom periods like they do in middle and high school.  I was placed in the highest level math class consisting of mostly grade 6 students -- I was the only grade 4 student in the class

Everything fell apart in grade 5.  Our school no longer had grade 6 students, and I had already taken the highest math class offered.  I spent that year doing workbook type math, and I could do the week's worth of work in under half and hour.  I missed school days every week because I was so bored.  Grade 6 was no better.  We were no longer clustered together as gifted students and the middle school didn't mix 6th graders in with the other grades for academics.  I got to take the highest level math offered to the 6th graders, which was taught by the teacher I had in grade 4, and was no different than it was then.  He actually apologized to me that I had to do it again, but it wasn't his job to offer me enrichment.

I'd like to say my math interest stayed bright, but it didn't.  I did pre-algebra in grade 7 because that was the highest math they would let me take.  Algebra was grade 8, and that again was the highest math offered at the school.  By the time I got to high school my interest in math was squashed.  I took geometry and algebra 2 and that was it.  I should point out that my parents had zero interest in my giftedness, or maybe they were too focused on making ends meet and dealing with my siblings -- a smart kid who doesn't cause problems can be overlooked when other kids are using drinking, using drugs, dropping out, etc.  They also trusted the schools to do everything.

The lesson I offer from this is that a child's interests and abilities can be bored out of them, so to speak.

2)  Our youngest son was clearly math gifted from a young age, but in a very intuitive manner -- he could solve algebra problems at age 6 but couldn't explain how.  I remember when he was 5 years old he saw a sale sign that said, "Buy 1 Get 1 50% Off" and he casually remarked to us, "That's just 25% off each one."  At that point we hadn't done any math with him at all other than learning numbers and the usual things children learn in the home when cooking, etc.  He was also a stubborn child.  We tried so hard to ground him in math processes, but he hated the work.  The educational specialist we worked with insisted that we not let him fly ahead in math because she thought he needed to understand how he was getting the correct answers.  And I figured she might be right, as I had also been intuitive and then struggled a bit in geometry because I wasn't grounded in showing my work.  Over the years I've wondered what would have happened if we had given him more challenging work back (more than just a couple of grades ahead).  Maybe he would have been willing to learn the processes because he wanted to understand the math.

The lesson I offer from this is that it might not be good to hold back a child from their natural abilities.

We homeschooled our children K-12.  Our oldest had a bit of math fear in him.  I taught them math myself using various methods and curricula up until it was time for algebra.  In grade 6 everything clicked for my oldest and his fear disappeared -- we did two full grades of math that year.  Starting with algebra we found a solid online program and they used that for algebra, geometry, algebra 2, and precalculus with trig.

What we used was Teaching Textbooks.  Back then we could buy it as CDs, and I always bought the physical textbook and made them watch the lesson, then work the problems out on paper before putting in their answers.  Now it's a subscription product.  When we started algebra was the lowest level offered -- this has since changed and I would have gladly used it for everything they have.

There were some negative reviews of TT, including people who said it wasn't rigorous enough.  I will just say this: both of my sons took assessment tests and were approved to place directly into Calc 1 in college.  My youngest realized he doesn't love math as much as he does coding and computer science, so that's the direction he went in.  My oldest is working on a B.S. in Math with plans for an M.S. as well, and his advisor says he's PhD material.  So I would say TT is a solid program when used right.  I know parents who don't buy the book and let the kids do everything online, and then wonder whey their kids don't really know the math.  I would say they need the process of writing down the problems and solving them on paper with pencil -- it transfers better to the brain that way.  My kids were never allowed to simply see the multiple choice answers and make an educated guess -- their answers were on paper first.  And I'm also glad we used TT even though it's online, because these days universities use MyMathLab and MyStatsLab for homework and some quizzes, and my boys learned solid learning methods combining the online and the book.

Here's one more thing about TT: My oldest broke his hand just as he was starting TT geometry, so I sat with him to be his scribe.  I'll admit that geometry was my nemesis in high school, mostly because I was socially anxious, but also because I didn't understand logic necessary to do proofs.  TT geometry starts with logic.  A month into doing the course with my son, I understood geometry better than I ever had before.  I could do proofs.  Even more than that, I came to love geometry instead of being a little afraid.

If I was in your place I would give something like TT a try before hiring an expensive tutor.  It could take your daughter pretty far.

[ChpBstrd]

You may not need much materials.

I'm well over a decade out of date on where you are at, but my general criticism of math in school was

1. The kids can do very little math in their heads.
2. The schools didn't make them practice a lot and you got to redo homework to get a better grade... so the emphasis on the right answer wasn't there.

The schools did do a great job with the number line and I think more kids have a deeper theoretical background. (if they paid attention)

At the younger ages, we just played around asking lots of questions building up doing the current school math in their heads. A few here and there, ideally you would do a better job than I did of not wearing them out.

I also have a 2nd grader who is doing amazing things with math. Our school district switched to a Common Core based model, which involves learning all sorts of cognitive shortcuts to solve math problems in your head. For example, simplify 11 + 17 by borrowing one from the eleven and giving it to the seventeen. Now its 10 + 18 which is much easier to solve in one's head (oh yea, we also just sneaked in algebraic concepts). Then they make them do it the traditional way, by solving for 1 + 7 first, carrying any ones second, and solving for 1 + 1 third. There's even a technique where they use dots in the ones, tens, and hundreds columns and group them to visualize how carrying a one works.

The funny thing is, even though I was taught basic math by painstaking rote memorization and traditional stacking at a pricey private school, I actually taught myself to use some of these CC techniques when doing math in my head with numbers that have more than one digit. They've just formalized the mental shortcuts we all figured out on our own and put it in the curriculum. My kid actually likes the math curriculum, whereas I was not a fan back in the day. I'm 100% sure my 2nd grader could kick my ass at math when I was a 2nd 3rd grader.

So that's an update on educational technology over the past decade. Things are getting better. 

[jeninco]

Also: things are better now (most places) then they were when we were kids, but you're probably going to have to advocate for your daughter. Start learning how to do this politely and effectively, because you're going to get some practice. 

Note that if you can propose ways to solve a problem for multiple kids, you may have better traction. One year I went in once or twice per week and did supplemental math with the kids who didn't make it into the G&T program but were bored in just plain old "advanced" math. Sometimes showing up to do some of what needs doing (rather than demanding that the school "fix things" for just your kid) goes a long way.

[jamesbond007]

This is beautiful. Thanks so much for all the pointers, everyone. I feel like I have so many resources now to look at. DD and I already started looking at Khan Academy and she is excited. Will see how fat it goes. I will look into the TT program. I started teaching her Scratch but put it on hold as I didn't want her to spend time in front of the computer. It is time to get back to it.

[seemsright]

Thanks for the perspectives and suggestions. She is good at what is doing. The problem is she is complaining that her school is boring as her teacher is teaching the math that she already knows. According to her teacher, she is at grade 4 reading level, and she reads a lot at home. Comics, chapter books, science text etc. I want to make sure she is not bored at home too doing the same thing over and over. So I want to slowly introduce her to slightly more complex topics just to guage her interest and how she feels. I am worried that prolonged boredom at school is a bad thing. I want her to have fun and make lots friends at school. We are by no means starving her of anything. We don;t put her in many extra-curricular classes. She enjoys Karate and that is the only thing she does after school. On weekdays, she finishes her homework, watches Disney+ for an hour then spends time with us chatting or does some drawing and painting. On weekends we emphasize not doing anything academic as a sit down activity. We take her out for walks, hikes, museums or we clean our house together as a family. Of course, she meets her friends and cousins throughout the week multiple times.

She getting bored at school because her teacher is teaching stuff she already knows is our only concern now.

Having a board elementary kid is a challenge. Depending on your school district it might be worth getting her privately tested to see if she is gifted. This could give you more info on how to handle the school.

I say this because I had to go down this rabbit hole with my DD. She went into kinder pointing out misspellings on the walls and reading everything. I also had massive behavior issues. I got her privately tested to see if we were dealing with any other areas. Nope she was 'just' gifted. I ended up fighting and getting a grade skip. And her elementary were HARD. She was very board. But since we had the magic checkmark. She was able to go to other classes, do other things and buy time till middle school. It became a major issue in 5th but then Covid hit and it all worked out.

I did end up getting a Math 20 textbook at the local CC around 2nd because DD just wanted 'bigger' math. It was the same concepts just expanded so we were able to show her and teach her. Instead of adding two digits it was 6. it worked really well for us.

She is now 11 in 7th and is doing 8th math...and still cannot understand why it is so easy. But she is learning that school is for socialization and sports and not much else. Her grades are pretty high for not doing any work, and being distracted.

We are buying time till High School.

   

[waltworks]

This is basically a normal MMM forum kid - if you look back, you can find a zillion posts asking the same basic thing.

Here's the thing - being good at easy stuff (ie, arithmetic) is pretty common. Some kids just intuitively get it. There are two issues that concern me as a parent (and former professional statistician/mathematician), though:

-Being good at arithmetic (which is what she's doing right now) is useless most of the time. Algebra is also mostly useless. I had to re-learn how to do long form multiplication and division to help a child recently, because I had no idea how to do it, having never used it since learning it myself as a kid. Sure, it's nice to be able to estimate a tip at a restaurant in your head, but basically arithmetic is dumb and the focus on it is dumb too. Now formal logic (which you're sort of learning by learning arithmetic)... that's useful. So finding a way to make mathematics more about logic (which is also more fun!) and less about arithmetic should be goal #1. There is a whole world of riddles and logic puzzles and games out there to try.

-Doing more of what you're (or your child) already good at is poor preparation for the more important stages of education (ie, grad school) where everyone will be just as smart or smarter than you and the material is no longer easy. If you never spend any time on things you suck at (this could be a sport, a hobby, an academic subject, learning a language, whatever) then when things actually get hard, you won't be ready. Being able to struggle without quitting is probably the most important skill you can have.

I'd personally stop doing any extra math and try to get her teacher to let her help instruct other kids in the class, or put her in a program that immerses her in a foreign language, or have her pick a sport to try that she's never done. Find other avenues for her energy. If you have the time you could pull her from school for half the day a few days a week and go on cool trips to interesting local places (doesn't have to be a museum or anything officially "educational" - kids like this will learn just as much from a day hauling trash to the dump) or volunteering.

-W

[Dicey]

Walt has given me a perfect set-up for this story. Start by working with her teacher.

My brother married a woman from China. She had come here for a job opportunity but been forced her to leave her son with her mother in China. When her son finally got here, he was a pre-teen middle schooler. His English reading and writing were okay, but his verbal skills were not great. He was also way ahead in math. His teacher decided he'd spend his math time tutoring other kids and do an online course at another time for his own accelerated math studies. His English improved by leaps and bounds and helped him to assimilate because the kids respected him. They enjoyed their one on one time with someone besides the teacher. He was used to the online experience because his mother used to FaceTime* him all the time when he was still in China, so the pandemic didn't phase him, nor did the online advanced math, which his teacher supervised. He still keeps in touch with his grandparents and his old school friends in China as well. Hybrid learning for the win.

He will graduate from High School this year and has been accepted into university. He will study pharmacology at the school of his choice, which has a strong, five-year program. It's in-state which makes my brother's wallet happy. He is a smart, happy, well-adjusted young man.

*Or WeChat or equivalent.

ETA: Dang it, I forgot the whole reason I jumped in to this thread was to batsignal @NinetyFour.

[jeninco]

The thing with "you can help the other students" is that it can be OK in limited quantities (and for specific reasons, as in @Dicey's example), but can turn into "oh, I'll just use you as an assistant teacher, and you don't get to learn anything new to you."  Which is hugely bogus, especially for girls. Also, unless the teacher is pretty aware of social stuff between kids, it can go south pretty quickly.

Also, had someone tried this with my elder son (other than in extremely limited quantities), it would've been a fiasco, quickly. (I should say: if he felt that the teacher was taking advantage of him, putting him in an awkward social situation, and/or failing to provide him with content that was interesting and challenging to him it would've gone south, because he would feel -- correctly -- that the teacher was failing to provide challenging content for him while taking advantage of his presence to avoid fully doing his or her job.)

Also curious to see what @NinetyFour has to say about all this!

[waltworks]

Look, the bottom line is that (especially in the Covid era) public schools are not set up to deal with above-average kids, even in "good" school districts. OP already recognizes this I think.

Assuming you need some kind of supervision for your kid during the day, and don't want to/can't pay for private school, you can figure out ways for your kid to make the best of it (ie help other kids, skip a grade, do a language if it's offered, etc), or you can partially or fully homeschool. That's the reality. There's probably not a magic solution where the teacher spends a bunch of extra time on your kid and it's just amazing, because a lot of schools are struggling to just hire anyone who can fog a mirror to keep things functioning.

-W

[zhelud]

Art of Problem Solving.  Their "Beast Academy" program is for younger kids.

[Allie]

What @waltworks says is the truth for our area. 

We recently jumped into homeschooling with our kids.  My DS was the same way...bored in school, wanting to learn more, and spending most of his time helping the other kids.  He had a great teacher in 2nd who recommended him for testing and set him up with the higher grade levels so he was challenged and it was awesome - like he went to library reading time with the kids a couple grades above.  Then, he ended up in 3rd with a teacher who was frustrated with him all the time because his handwriting wasn't neat and he couldn't sit still.  Anyway, COVID was a nice excuse to pull them and see what they wanted to do and it's been awesome.

So far, we've used Khan Academy, IXL.com, Beast Academy (the hard copy books are comic books about math and have a puzzle component), TT, and Saxon Math.  Saxon is what both of my kids are doing now - my daughter likes the straightforward problem set based books and DS has entered high school math and Saxon has a solid Algebra and up curriculum.  Since the books are set up to have a lesson a day for 120 days but advanced kids get through faster for the more basic stuff, I let them learn a concept that is taught in little bits over multiple lessons all at once, then do some of the practice sets to be sure they are retaining it and able to do the work.  Understanding higher level concepts and being able to organize the numbers and work through multiple, boring steps are two totally different beasts.  You can get "homeschool sets" with the book, solution manual, tests, etc. off ebay or on buy nothing or just from the publishers for most of this stuff.  Our homeschool program has a library where members can share books, so we don't have to pay for much.

On Amazon, you can find workbooks for all sorts of math concepts either by grade or by type of problem.  My kids liked math for mindcrafters since they love mindcraft.  I mean, it's a math workbook.  But, as far as you can make a math book fun by putting in pictures of mindcraft characters, it works.  Straight worksheets come from teachers pay teachers and math-drills.com. 

Good luck! 

[waltworks]

A slight hijack: if I were homeschooling my kids, and I wanted to teach them math, I'd spend a lot less time on the conventional primary/secondary school math stuff (ie, algebra, arithmetic, etc) and add in probability and statistics (as well as a dose of basic finance/accounting) and more logic stuff.

None of that stuff is generally even touched on - I used to teach *graduate students* who were super smart cookies and could calculate you the volume in a slice of a cone or what have you on paper in 10th grade, but couldn't interpret their own (pretty simple) data in any meaningful way without a lot of hand holding 10 years later as 20-something aspiring academics.

The standard math curriculum is pretty awful, really. No reason to hang onto it if you're homeschooling, beyond enough to let the kid do well on the obligatory tests for getting into college. It's been a long time since I took the SAT obviously, but as I recall you didn't even need anything beyond trigonometry (or maybe not even that), it was mostly a test of being fast enough and not making mistakes at really easy stuff. You might need calculus for getting into college, but you won't use it afterwards - it just functions as a de facto IQ test.

Ok rant over.

-W

[jeninco]

A slight hijack: if I were homeschooling my kids, and I wanted to teach them math, I'd spend a lot less time on the conventional primary/secondary school math stuff (ie, algebra, arithmetic, etc) and add in probability and statistics (as well as a dose of basic finance/accounting) and more logic stuff.

None of that stuff is generally even touched on - I used to teach *graduate students* who were super smart cookies and could calculate you the volume in a slice of a cone or what have you on paper in 10th grade, but couldn't interpret their own (pretty simple) data in any meaningful way without a lot of hand holding 10 years later as 20-something aspiring academics.

The standard math curriculum is pretty awful, really. No reason to hang onto it if you're homeschooling, beyond enough to let the kid do well on the obligatory tests for getting into college. It's been a long time since I took the SAT obviously, but as I recall you didn't even need anything beyond trigonometry (or maybe not even that), it was mostly a test of being fast enough and not making mistakes at really easy stuff. You might need calculus for getting into college, but you won't use it afterwards - it just functions as a de facto IQ test.

Ok rant over.

-W

I mean unless you're going to study math. Or Engineering. Or mathematical physics. Or Fluid Dynamics. Or ....

But I agree, many math curricula are pretty cruddy, although we hav had a couple of awesome teachers in our K-12 adventures. And there's so much more to explore, if your kid can move a bit faster!

Also, I agree -- everyone should learn statistics and probability. I really like Gonick's "Cartoon Guide to Statistics" as a supplement to some boring textbook.

[waltworks]

Edit: getting too off-topic. Suffice to say probability and statistics are a good thing to teach kids, and we don't do that normally.

-W

[AMandM]

I'm speaking here as a math major who homeschooled my own kids and who has done private tutoring both for remediation and for enrichment.

Especially if your kid stays in school, OP, PLEASE do not just teach her the next grade's curriculum! You'd just be setting her up for more frustration down the line. Since you say she wants more math, help her discover the vast areas of math given short shrift or simply not taught in grade school: probability, number theory, meaningful data collection and interpretation, statistics, logic, symmetry, etc. etc. etc. The Beast Academy books from Art of Problem Solving are good in this respect, but you could also do a lot on your own.

Example: Design a bird feeder, draw plans to scale, measure and cut the boards and assemble it. You've used angles, ratios, fractions, measurement, 3D geometry, symmetry...

Also, make sure your DD gets to use numbers and quantities in concrete ways: measuring, counting, estimating things in the world around her. I can't tell you how many students I've seen who have no feeling for how much a number represents: they don't know that 620 is closer to 600 than to 700, or that three halves is in between 1 and 2.

Good luck!

[jeninco]

Agree with both of the above, but here are some concrete examples that I've done with elementary school-aged kids:
1. how big is a pile of 1000 pennies? 10,000? 100,000? how big would a pile of 1 million be? How much would it weigh? At least make a pile of 100 to look at (better to use 1000).
1A. Actually cause there to be a million of something. We used dots on paper, assembled into a poster. I think there were ... I dunno, 1000 per page? 5000?

2. (this is probably better in a small group...) measure a large variety of round things, measuring circumference and diameter. Keep a "lab book" listing item, measured circumference (you can figure out, together, a way to measure this: using string is an option), measured diameter, and the ratio of circumference/diameter. What's the ratio? Hey, it seems to be the same even for very large and very small objects -- how can the kids research that?
2A. Bonus, you get to talk about experimental variation and outliers. What's the responsible thing to do with outliers when you're analyzing data? (hint: this is a discussion, not a foregone conclusion.)
("Circles" have just about gotten crowded out of the curriculum around here...)

Also agree with the general "enrichment" idea -- learn a language (and watch children's TV in that language) together. Is she interested in music? This would be a great time to begin to explore that. etc. etc. Coding ... I mean, you could, but she's still pretty small. My feeling is you'd be better off with less screen time and a little more practice solving problems in a methodical, stepwise fashion. Like the bird feeder example above, only first she (with some guidance and help) could write out all the steps.

[SimpleCycle]

I have not read all the replies, so this may cover things already covered.

First, math games are great.  Dragonwood sounds like it'd be perfect for her level - it's a lot of mental adding and some strategy, and it's fun.  I also really like Tiny Polka Dot, it has 16 different games at multiple math levels.  Some of them don't feel like games to my kids, so we just make up rules and have fun while manipulating numbers using the cards.  But overall it is very solid and fun.

Second, consider what your "end game" is here.  It sounds like she is very smart and has a thirst for learning - that is wonderful!  But the more you accelerate her, the more bored she may be.  I'd address differentiation with the teacher if at all possible.  One technique we used in homeschool was if you could do the five hardest problems, you can move on without doing the rest - you've shown you've mastered the concept.  This meant started from the end of the worksheet and working backwards.

Third, two supplemental curriculum suggestions, depending on how involved you want to get.  Singapore Math is amazing for learning and practice, I really recommend the Dimensions version of the curriculum.  You can download the scope and sequence to see where she is at, or you can start at her grade level and work forward.  Dimensions has 4-5 hands on activities for each concept in addition to the textbook and worksheets, and that's where the fun really comes from.

The other curriculum option is Everyday Math.  This is a school-based curriculum, but it has workbooks you can use at home.  I'd recommend getting the teachers guide for activities beyond the workbooks.  I found this curriculum less linear and harder to teach, but it may be perfect for supplementing.  It has a real critical thinking focus above and beyond the mechanics of math, so you can go deeper into concepts rather than further ahead in concepts.  I think that might be what you are looking for.

Good luck.  We are also in a public school now and our struggle is a bit different - there's not enough practice for the areas my daughter is lagging in and so we are supplementing at home and coordinating with the teacher.  She's ahead in other areas and I'd love to follow her passions more, but she has to learn to write!

[jamesbond007]

I hesitate to post this quite yet, since it's a bit premature.  But at the risk of that and of working my own book, so to speak:

As it happens I am a math professor, presently on a sabbatical writing a textbook about the math behind FI.

It doesn't require any particular math background to get started. It builds pretty much everything up from scratch, those with a strong math background will just find the first few chapters a lot quicker to get through than those who are starting from scratch. 

The material is probably a bit too advanced for a second grader, but maybe not that much further beyond.  It should be of interest to anybody who wants to teach their kids about FI, or to better understand the math behind it themselves.

It is not yet fit for human consumption, but I do plan to post about it here on MMM when it is.  If anyone reading this now would like a (no cost) copy of the preliminary edition to check out, send me a PM and I'll send it to you when it is available (most likely late spring 2022.)

That's awesome. Sent you a PM.

[PDXTabs]

DD is in 2nd grade. She is good at addition, subtraction, word problems, 2 step word problems, multiplication, geometry basics (measurements, perimeter calculation, etc.), time and money and getting started with division (She gets the intuition). She can write an equation based on the word problem and find the unknown value.


We've resisted sending her for tutoring like Russian School of Math etc. as they cost about $200 per month. I have a computer science degree and there is no reason I cannot teach myself and that is what I did. The problem is, where do I find the teaching material or say, the syllabus? Can I purchase somewhere? RSM or its equivalent somewhere?  Could you point me in the right direction?


So far, we've bought those Kumon workbooks from Amazon for practice. Where do we go from here?


Thank you.

I’m confused, you say she is already good at math and checking off every box in 2nd grade, so what’s driving your need for extra emphasis? Has she asked for more math homework? Has her teachers identified areas of concern or development? Or is this about you wanting to accelerate her math skills? If so, what’s motivating that? Are you trying to direct her life and career now, while she’s in 2nd grade?

For my son we try to go well beyond what school is "teaching" in all subjects. The motivation is that the US public school system is ridiculous in how they slow walk everyone through every subject regardless of their aptitude, effort, or willingness to learn.

What's the reason that a kid in grade three can't deal with fractions? What's the reason to not have kids read more difficult books to expand their vocabulary? Not learning to read music or different languages is also a mystery to me.

Once they know how to multiply why can't we teach them the physics of velocity and acceleration?

Anyway, I guess my motivation is that the curriculum is too basic and kids, like everyone, adapt to their environment.

This is accurate. Especially with what is going in California right now with the proposed changes to math curriculum. It's a shit show.

I can't speak for DD in this post, but I was bored in math for all but one year of my public school education. I would have loved this.

[Runrooster]

Art of Problem Solving.  Their "Beast Academy" program is for younger kids.

+1