Someone set me straight with NYC housing decisions

[EfficientN]

Hey all,

I'm about to move to NYC for work, making a solid income. 23 YO, new graduate, happy to me a yuppie soon enough. I've lived there before, so I have some historical samples of how much I tend to spend, and have developed a corresponding budget. My problem is deciding on housing/location. In my budget, I can afford to live alone and walk to work, while still saving 30% of my pre-tax salary. To me, this is like a dream come true. After having roommates throughout college/grad school, I am exhausted with dealing with other people's shenanigans.

However, I realize that if I either A: Live farther from work, or B: Live with roommates, or C: Both, I could dramatically increase my savings rate. For example, if through any of these options I lowered my rent from say $2,000 to $1,500, that's an extra $6,000 a year! Part of me is saying "Move out to New Jersey with roommates, tough it out, and save yourself a year or so of working."

While my argument to live cheaper makes sense, I find myself dreading one seemingly silly thing: social life. I realize this sounds ridiculously anti-mustachian, but I feel like I cheap it out in Jersey City, I will literally have no friends, no dates, never get married, die alone with my horde of tax-advantages retirement schemes.

Considering no one IRL shares my views on spending and financial planning to begin with, I'm hoping to bounce this problem off someone else. Is 30% savings rate "high-enough"? Are my expectations of not having a social life completely out of left field? It's hard for me to calculate how many years to FIRE this change would reduce, since at 23, it's hard for me to do any life predictions beyond 5 years.

[2Birds1Stone]

Well, going from a 30% savings rate to a 50% savings rate shaves 11 years off your working life.

Some food for thought.

[JLee]

Well, going from a 30% savings rate to a 50% savings rate shaves 11 years off your working life.

Some food for thought.

Not necessarily, unless he needs to retire at a NYC cost of living.

[bop]

Where in NYC is your work place?

[MsPeacock]

Maybe there is some happy middle ground - or other areas of the budget you can cut if you wish to save more. For instance, a cheaper cell phone plan (as an example), or eating out less, or whatever, in order not to have a roommate. I don't think there is a single right answer. Rather, it is deciding what is most important to you and where you can cut out things you don't want or need. Maybe you need to not live w/a roommate, or you need to live in Manhattan (although I am fairly sure that people in Jersey City manage to get dates and get married). Also, is your income likely to increase over the next several years so that you can increase your savings rate?

[AlexK]

At 23 I would go for the 30% savings rate and great social life. You will be getting significant pay raises as your experience builds, and if you can avoid lifestyle inflation, apply that right to savings.

This is a MMM forum but I feel like we should be maximizing happiness, not necessarily bank balances.

[snshijuptr]

From my experience, your social life is determined by You, not where you live. That said as a young single person, moving is really not that big of a deal. Heck I've moved 4 times in 2 years as a married person with a baby. So I recommend you move out to New Jersey with a roommate on a 1 year lease and see how it is. Do you end up crashing in the city constantly or leaving early from the party? Do you crave the city life? If so, move. Your happiness is important. But, there is a high chance you will see that it doesn't matter. You leave the party when you feel like it. You meet cool people to hang with in New Jersey who share your values of saving money. Heck, you find a significant other and end up moving in with them after a year.

Food for thought: Working full time vs college is a HUGE lifestyle change. Don't blame your exhaustion on the commute. 40 hours a week is a lot of work.

[ioseftavi]

Considering no one IRL shares my views on spending and financial planning to begin with, I'm hoping to bounce this problem off someone else. Is 30% savings rate "high-enough"? Are my expectations of not having a social life completely out of left field? It's hard for me to calculate how many years to FIRE this change would reduce, since at 23, it's hard for me to do any life predictions beyond 5 years.

30% savings rate is great by most American standards.  It's tame by mustachian standards.

I think that you're budgeting way, way, way too much for rent, personally.  And I say that as a guy who toughed out living in NYC for more than a decade, so far.  For almost all of that, I've lived with roommates until I moved in with my girlfriend (now wife).

You don't need to move to New Jersey to save money.  You don't need to not have a life to save money.  You don't need to never to go a restaurant to save money. 

However, you are likely to find it really hard to "make up" for spending too much on rent.  Rent that is $700 more than you need to spend cannot be "overcome" by never buying coffee.  You can't just say "ah, I'll never go out to eat and it'll be just like I'm living in a $1,150 per month apartment."  It's just too huge a deficit.

You know how MMM likes to talk about structuring your life so that you don't need a car much?  If you pick the right location, town, commute, etc, you won't need one.

That doesn't apply to city dwellers like you and I.  But here's what does: structure your life so that living with a roommate, in an outerborough, doesn't fucking suck.  That means you will need to:

1) Find a neighborhood that you enjoy, but doesn't cost as much as the trendiest or most expensive parts of Manhattan [lower cost]
2) On a major subway line that runs right to near your office [convenient]
3) Shared with 1 or more people who you don't hate. [don't save money by sacrificing sanity]

If you think these things aren't worth your time, that's your choice.  But as someone who did this for more than a decade and found that it was absolutely crucial to getting up over the 40%+ savings rate barrier in NYC - I highly recommend it.

[britton]

I moved to NYC in my 20s and have lived there for over 10 years. Don't move to Jersey City if you are working in NYC.

If you live off of the subway system which runs pretty regularly 24h/day (albeit less frequently at night), you will be forced into taking the Path train or LIRR (if you move to long island). This will lead you to watching a clock to try to make your train. On the LIRR at least, there are parts of the night with no trains running for an hour or 2. If you like going out and meeting people which is one of NYC's great draws especially in your 20s, your nights will constantly be cut short or be tempered with anxiety about making your train.

Also, if you live outside of NYC, you will be more tempted to get a car. Living inside NYC, I've never been tempted to have a car and in fact the thought of it and all of its hassles makes my skin crawl.

My recommendation is find a place with roommates somewhat close to your work. Living alone seems great and it can be if you have an extensive network of friends. Being new to the city, roommates will help you quickly expand your social circle. Plus, it is the best way to save money while staying inside this city.

If you can live walking distance from work that is great as it keeps you from having to worry about subway delays etc. However, it shouldn't be your only consideration. But definitely live in the city.

[RexualChocolate]

I feel your pain. NYC is laughably expensive (brokers fees on top of rent anyone?) but it can be somewhat reasonable due to higher base salaries (which are slightly offset by city and state taxes).

I was negotiating living in a myriad of cities with a new job and they really wanted NYC. I pointed out the difference in tax burden alone was more than they were offering as a COLA increase, and they finally dropped it.

Just find a bunch of roommates for 2 years and then move. There is no city that is more exciting than NYC, I just would move out as soon as you can move and keep your salary for cost reasons. 1500 a month in Chicago gets you just about the nicest 1br in the city, no city income tax, state income taxes are half.

[EfficientN]

So many replies, and so quickly. Thank you guys for being so prompt. I'll try to respond to each question:

Location is lower Manhattan, basically on top of the new transportation hub. When I mentioned I've lived here before, that for 6 months at a time, living in Chinatown, Jersey City, and UWS.

Following ioseftavi's post, I feel like roommates are consistently a lottery. I've had good and bad, with strangers and close friends. How would you recommend trying to pair down the lottery of it? Even now I'm rooming with a close friend, and we still get on each other's nerves (I'm cleaner than him, he hates that I cook).

Furthermore, I mentioned Jersey City again since looking through neighborhood prices, its the cheapest option at <20 minutes underground to lower Manhattan. Am I misguided to think "This area in the west of Brooklyn is $300 less a month, but I'm paying 20 minutes extra a day in commuting time/cannot walk to work"? That doesn't sound like a bad trade to me, but this is perhaps where someone needs to call me out.

[ioseftavi]

Following ioseftavi's post, I feel like roommates are consistently a lottery. I've had good and bad, with strangers and close friends. How would you recommend trying to pair down the lottery of it? Even now I'm rooming with a close friend, and we still get on each other's nerves (I'm cleaner than him, he hates that I cook).

Thanks for reading and replying.  Sounds like you have an open mind.

My honest opinion: don't live with people you know, and don't expect to live with people you already know.  My best roommate, EVER, was someone I found randomly (online posting).  You want to find someone in this huge city who has similar priorities and lifestyle to you, and that person is probably not:

-also looking for an apartment
-in your budget
-in your neighborhood
-and in your existing circle of friends.

If you insist on living with a friend, you are likely to "shoehorn" them into living with you, because you want to 'make it work'.  They will be an imperfect fit.  Your location will not be good for them, or their habits will drive you nuts, or you'll be spending a different amount than they'd want.

So the best thing to do: throw out the idea that you need to live with a friend.  It's just too limiting.

You want to find a neighborhood first.  Again, focus on subway lines near your office.  Follow them to outerboros.  Go visit the neighborhoods.  Do they feel like your style?  Safe enough for your taste? 

Then you start looking up apartments in those hoods.  What're the prices like for 1 bedroom out of a 2 bedroom?  1 out of 3 bedroom?

If the 'hood and the price are good, now you start seeing what's available in apartments already rented.  People are constantly moving in and out of the city.  Someone, somewhere, needs a roommate, and they are super cool and agreeable and like some of the things you do.

Your job is to find those people.  You schedule a Saturday, or several days, where you meet all your potential roommates.  You go to visit the apartment as well as the people currently living in it.  Take time to visit the apartment, and then spend 10-20 minutes talking to your potential roomy.  Ask questions about what's important to you (pets / bills / significant others / hours / drugs / cleanliness).  You'll quickly identify shitty spaces and people you can't stand. 

Once you find a roommate and apartment you like, you jump on that shit.  Ideally, get yourself on the lease so it's official.  If not, insist on getting on the lease when the current one is up, and get that in writing.

So yeah.  This is how I'd do it if I were you.

[SpendyMcSpend]

Live in the closest borough that is also a fun neighborhood (not jersey city!)

[nanu]

Posting to follow since I'm moving to NYC/NJ soon.
Would also be interested knowing why people oppose Jersey City so much

[Imustacheyouaquestion]

Commuting time is hours of your life you never get back. You can make it worthwhile by reading or listening to podcasts, but it's still just adding hours to your work day.

[Imustacheyouaquestion]

Your job is to find those people.  You schedule a Saturday, or several days, where you meet all your potential roommates.  You go to visit the apartment as well as the people currently living in it.  Take time to visit the apartment, and then spend 10-20 minutes talking to your potential roomy.  Ask questions about what's important to you (pets / bills / significant others / hours / drugs / cleanliness).  You'll quickly identify shitty spaces and people you can't stand. 

I recommend also asking casually if they would mind putting you in touch with former roommates and landlords. People who are good roommates will be happy to give you phone numbers, facebook contacts, emails, etc. People who are bad roommates or tend to "attract drama" will have excuses or reasons why things have gone south with those people. Don't be afraid to ask directly why they are looking for a new roommate.

[FLBiker]

At 23 I would go for the 30% savings rate and great social life. You will be getting significant pay raises as your experience builds, and if you can avoid lifestyle inflation, apply that right to savings.

This is a MMM forum but I feel like we should be maximizing happiness, not necessarily bank balances.

I like this answer.  Who knows how your life is going to turn out.  I definitely felt like, after college, I was done with sharing kitchens and bathrooms.  I spent most of my 20s living overseas, which means I didn't technically maximize my savings (I wasn't earning much, but I was still frugal) but I wouldn't trade it for anything.

[LadyStache]

Have you considered moving to Hoboken?

[ioseftavi]

Posting to follow since I'm moving to NYC/NJ soon.
Would also be interested knowing why people oppose Jersey City so much

Here's my opinion (as someone who's never lived in Jersey City):

Jersey City is served by the PATH train, not the subway.  This means that your work either needs to be near the PATH train stations in manhattan, or you need to make a transfer.  Transfers - particularly between transit systems - are often the most obnoxious and time consuming parts of commutes.  Don't structure your life so you have to do several each day.  Subway time should be spent chilling out and reading or people watching or whatever.  Hustling to make transfers is awful. 

Secondly, the PATH train runs 24 hours a day, but on much less frequent service than the subway in off-hours.  You can wait for quite a while to get back to your place in Jersey City after a late night in Manhattan.

Lastly, the number of PATH stations in Jersey city is limited, and apartments near these stations are notably more pricey.  It's possible to live in Jersey City and add lots of time to your commute (due to walking to the PATH train and transfers) and find that you're not saving much money at all for the trouble. 



I looked long and hard at Jersey City, but never had an office near enough to a PATH station to make it work.  If you DID have an office on top of one of those stations, I would recommend looking into some shared places around the Jersey City PATH stops - it could totally work. 

Keep in mind, if your office is near this hub, not-too-far stations off the 2/3, 4/5, A/C, J/Z, and N/R lines in Brooklyn are ALL likely to result in sub 30 minute commutes.  Don't fuck around with neighborhoods that will result in miserable commutes.  Case in point: I live in Astoria, which I love, but would never recommend to you.  Living in Astoria and commuting to midtown is life on easy mode.  Astoria to the southern tip of Manhattan would be fucking awful.  Brooklyn has its own nice/affordable neighborhoods, that I would move to if I worked in southern Manhattan

I am nearly certain you could find a great hood in Brooklyn off one of the aforementioned lines, with a roommate you like, in a 'hood you enjoy, for less than $1,500 for your share. 

[theonethatgotaway]

MOVE TO JERSEY CITY.

You work in the financial district. You can take the Ferry home saving time. You can take the path 1 or 2 stops home quickly. With a high salary you will be saving a good percentage in NYC taxes. You can live on your own. There are so many positives to this scenario I can't even think about suggesting another.

I live here and everyone I meet has the same conversation. You feel like you are cheating the system, it's great.

Source: lived in nyc for 5 years (UES) then London, and now JC.

[ioseftavi]

It sounds like you could have an "income problem" rather than a "housing problem". You don't say what you mean by "solid income", but if it's only, say, $80,000-$100,000, you aren't earning enough money to justify living in NYC, since you can probably earn that anywhere. If you're going to live in an expensive housing area, I would aim for $150,000 minimum, and ideally over $200,000. Then you can live alone in a nice area and still save lots of money.

If you're only talking about earning $100,000, I would strongly consider living somewhere cheaper (i.e. nowhere near NYC).

Cathy, I'm just gonna assume you're trolling with this.  Right?

[ioseftavi]

...did you read the topic of the post and the prior posts?  The OP is moving to NYC, for certain, and asked for help on deciding on living arrangements: NYC vs outer boroughs / Jersey City.  Living alone vs living with other people.  What kind of savings rates are attainable.

Your advice / commentary is:

-$100,000 isn't enough in NYC or SF.
-Make more money.  $50,000 to $100,000 more than twice the median income in the country should do it.
-Don't move to the city that it sounds like you're pretty much set on moving to

How on earth do these things help the OP?

[JLee]

You are mischaracterising my posts, probably unintentionally.

I am well aware you can live on incomes well below $100,000 in a high cost of housing area. Based on threads I've read on these forums, I can safely say I am one of the most frugal people among the regular members, given that my total spending per year excluding housing is generally below $5,000. So, this isn't an issue of what is "enough" to survive in an area.

Rather, the issue is: is it rational to move to one of the most expensive housing areas in the world if you are merely going to earn an income that you could earn anywhere? MMM's answer to that is "no", which you can find in many comments he's made. I agree with him.

I also don't agree with you that it's inappropriate to suggest the OP evaluate whether he is earning a level of income that makes NYC rational. It's entirely relevant to the thread. If somebody posted a thread about how can they shave money from their $100/month coffee budget while they are spending $1,000/month on car payments, I'm sure we would be tempted to comment on the car payments. The OP is not locked into moving to NYC. He or she can still evaluate whether it's actually a rational decision.

I would like to know how to earn 100k "anywhere" at 23yo.

[michaelanthony]

Sounds like OP has a job on Wall Street, so if that's the case, he probably can't just earn that type of salary "anywhere."

As someone who currently lives in the city (Midtown), has a 15 minute walk to work, and is saving (with the wife) ~45% of our income, on a combined ~$195k salary, I can tell you it's most certainly doable.

Being able to walk to work in the city -- i.e. being able to avoid the god-awful subway every single day -- cannot be overstated in how amazing it is.

[RexualChocolate]

Sounds like OP has a job on Wall Street, so if that's the case, he probably can't just earn that type of salary "anywhere."

As someone who currently lives in the city (Midtown), has a 15 minute walk to work, and is saving (with the wife) ~45% of our income, on a combined ~$195k salary, I can tell you it's most certainly doable.

Being able to walk to work in the city -- i.e. being able to avoid the god-awful subway every single day -- cannot be overstated in how amazing it is.

I think the greater point is after 2 years in finance, you can make that salary in any metro area. Employers are not going to pay extra for you to choose to live in NYC.

What's your rent?

[michaelanthony]

Sounds like OP has a job on Wall Street, so if that's the case, he probably can't just earn that type of salary "anywhere."

As someone who currently lives in the city (Midtown), has a 15 minute walk to work, and is saving (with the wife) ~45% of our income, on a combined ~$195k salary, I can tell you it's most certainly doable.

Being able to walk to work in the city -- i.e. being able to avoid the god-awful subway every single day -- cannot be overstated in how amazing it is.

I think the greater point is after 2 years in finance, you can make that salary in any metro area. Employers are not going to pay extra for you to choose to live in NYC.

What's your rent?

They aren't paying you extra to live there, they're paying you to work there. The question is: where should OP live? Personally, at 23 y/o, I'd live as close to work as possible. After two years and he can make that salary in Dallas? Well, that's another topic altogether.

My rent? $2,700.

[RexualChocolate]

Right, I agree at 23 i'd just slow the savings down and live in the city.

But comparing NY and Chicago it looks like the marginal NYC city + state tax rate is around 10% vs 3.7% state only in IL, and a $2700 apartment in NYC is about $1300 here.

So once you can move and keep your salary, you're paying 6.3% marginal(so less effective) + $17,000 more dollars to live in NYC over Chicago.

The point is its a massive luxury expense to live in NYC. Not saying its a bad choice, just need to be aware of it. Saying you aren't sacrificing by living in the city isn't accurate.

[EfficientN]

OP Here. I'm surprised by how many comments this has generated, and at risk at missing replying to everyone individually, I'll spell out a few additional points. I'm intentionally shifting some of these salary figures by +-  few thousands, since I'm intentionally not adding +- $5,000, since this already enough information that someone could figure out my identity with this information. Thus, the numbers with ~ are approximations I'm borrowing from my actual calculations:

• Income is $100,000
• I've worked with my company before, and think I have fantastic upward mobility. In addition, I genuinely enjoy my team, the day-to-day work, the location, etc. To be clear, I've already signed on, having done the appropriate homework among multiple options.
• When I calculated my budget out, yes I looked at taxes including state and NYC's local, yes I accounted for changes in price levels, and yes I included a hedge of possible lifestyle inflation.

Realistically, OP is probably talking about an income well below even $100,000.

OP says that he or she could save 30% after tax while living alone and walking to work (which I presume to mean no car expenses). Here's an intentionally over-spendy monthly budget that the OP might have:

Rent: $2,200
Utilities, including internet: $100
Food: $300
Household essentials: $100
Unnecessary luxury spending: $200

Let's round that up to $3,000 per month in spending. OP says that he or she can save 30%, which means he or she is spending 70%. Hence OP's after tax income would be $4,285, or $51,420 per year. Assuming a 25% tax rate (which is a gross over-exaggeration), OP's pre-tax income would be $68,560.

I don't think moving to NYC to earn less than $70,000 per year is a financially sound decision, and at the very least, it deserves mention in the thread.

On the other hand, if OP will be earning a lot more than that, they are probably spending way too much money, and could save more by applying the principles from the blog.

The budget numbers you posted are actually very similar to my expectations, including a hedge that my lifestyle will inflate (which is another story, but let's leave that as a hedge within the budget). More precisely, if I pay $2,200/month in rent, I'd have ~$36,000 in expenses that have to paid with post-tax dollars ($3,000). After taxes (with having maxed 401k), I'm expecting to have ~$65,000. So with my muddied numbers here, I'd have $29,000 in savings each year, or about 29% (again, with these slightly modified numbers from RL).

Cathy, I do agree that people are not truly considering the cost of living in a high COL area. However, my job field would be located in either NYC, London, SF; I'm a bit hosed either way.

MOVE TO JERSEY CITY.

You work in the financial district. You can take the Ferry home saving time. You can take the path 1 or 2 stops home quickly. With a high salary you will be saving a good percentage in NYC taxes. You can live on your own. There are so many positives to this scenario I can't even think about suggesting another.

I live here and everyone I meet has the same conversation. You feel like you are cheating the system, it's great.

Source: lived in nyc for 5 years (UES) then London, and now JC.

So, I lived near the exchange place PATH station last year, which is within an expensive area of JC. Beautiful neighborhood, fantastic commute (5 minutes at most on PATH, literally just under the Hudson). If I had a long-term relationship, I'd want to move out there ASAP. Hell, I'd probably go deeper into Jersey depending on the prices. But this returns me to an emotionally problematic area: I'm under the belief that living in JC, even literally within sight of the Hudson, will leave me lonely. I know this isn't true, and mostly irrational, but I need to admit how much of a drag this issue is on this decision. And yes, I'm looking at Hoboken as well.

[lise]

New Yorker posting here ... live in Manhattan.  You're young.  Have fun. 

Jersey City is up and coming as an area BUT YES you will be watching the train schedule and YES you will probably end up with a car.  And I doubt your social life will be in FiDi, so the quick commute will only be around work and I'm sure you'll end up going out after work in other areas of the city.

My personal opinion is that you should look to live in Chinatown/Lower East Side.  There are some affordable rent shares in those areas (cheaper than Brooklyn) and you can walk to work and socialize in your neighborhood.

[nycstash]

Get an apartment somewhere in brownstone Brooklyn (Fort Greene, Park Slope, Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill, Clinton Hill) and bike to work over the Brooklyn Bridge. One of the most beautiful commutes I can imagine.  I think you should be able to get a 1BR for less than $2,000 and the neighborhood will be a lot more interesting than someplace in walking distance of downtown Manhattan. You'll save money and increase your quality of living.  Personally, at age 23 I would definitely go for a roommate situation and have the potential to add $1,000/month to your savings. But I think that's a personal choice. I'm not a fan of living alone; if that's really important to you then make choices elsewhere.   

Adding: agree that Chinatown/LES are good potential options as well.

[SpendyMcSpend]

Don't forget that high income equals competition at work: clothing, dry cleaning, networking aka drinking after work at higher end places, dates are often Dutch, cabs, etc.  Nyc has a way of drastically increasing your lifestyle expenses especially in manhattan.  Look up average price to dry clean a suit in manhattan

[lise]

Don't forget that high income equals competition at work: clothing, dry cleaning, networking aka drinking after work at higher end places, dates are often Dutch, cabs, etc.  Nyc has a way of drastically increasing your lifestyle expenses especially in manhattan.  Look up average price to dry clean a suit in manhattan

Disagree on dry cleaning.  NYC dry cleaning is cheap compared to other places I've lived because of the competition. 

Disagree on cabs.  You see all income types on the subway including Wall St Bankers, Celebrities (Tom Hanks, Keanu Reaves, Helen Mirren) the mayor.  Cabs are a last resort for me and many other New Yorkers. 

[affordablehousing]

Love these debates, here's my thoughts as someone who's both been living in Brooklyn for 10 years, lived at half, and twice the OP's income for many years, and never paid more than $1000 in rent + utilities. First to ground the discussion, 23 yo with probably $125-150K after bonus, working in securities, you'll be retired by 30 if you care to be. Second, new jersey is such a different beast. totally different rhythm, feel, people who live there. I found Brooklyn having much different attitudes and the more artistic place to be a yuppy. I never had the stamina for manhattan. my recommendation is to try to be area agnostic and find a cheap place with a passive landlord who won't fix anything or raise the rent. lock in that rent and stay put. if you can stand that live someplace on the rise like brooklyn or chinatown. if you need condo finishes and new fixtures, go to jersey for the best values with well-managed buildings. do know that most of your colleagues will be living in manhattan if you're in front office. i remember cracking up when i found out my desk neighbor paid more than my rent just to park her landrover under her apartment building in chelsea.

[minority_finance_mo]

A coworker of mine just moved to Jersey City - it's about a straight half hour transit trip to work and it's a decently busy area of Jersey as well. NJ does not have to be a dead zone - you will find friends and things to do. Just make sure it's somewhere that's not an hour away.

[SpendyMcSpend]

As a young woman I'm not taking the subway home at 2 a.m.  Cabs are sometimes needed

[SpendyMcSpend]

Dry cleaning may be cheaper but you're required to dress up way more

[RexualChocolate]

If its ibanking, definitely live in the city. You'll maximize your ability to get home and sleep for those first 2 burnout years.

Also don't skimp on going out/networking. Your ability to be ground into dust as an analyst is less important than your ability to be human as far as getting the associate gig.

Additionally, people love to think finance starts and ends in NY/San Fran/London. Not true at all anymore. Charlotte(#2 financial center in US) is the absolute best for income:cost of living ratio in finance. IBank paid the exact same for a much cheaper city with lower tax burden.

TL,DR: Stay in NYC for fun, move to a different city for associate gig at the 2 year mark for savings.

[SpendyMcSpend]

My point is that you will probably spend more in discretionary expenses in nyc than you thought so rent will need to be a bigger savings

[NoraLenderbee]

Live in NYC, walk to work, and enjoy life. You've already said it's a dream come true. You know what to expect in terms of costs, you know you can afford it while still saving, and you know you are sick and tired of roommates. At 23, there are many changes ahead of you. Do it!

[overlord34]

Get an apartment somewhere in brownstone Brooklyn (Fort Greene, Park Slope, Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill, Clinton Hill) and bike to work over the Brooklyn Bridge. One of the most beautiful commutes I can imagine.  I think you should be able to get a 1BR for less than $2,000 and the neighborhood will be a lot more interesting than someplace in walking distance of downtown Manhattan. You'll save money and increase your quality of living.  Personally, at age 23 I would definitely go for a roommate situation and have the potential to add $1,000/month to your savings. But I think that's a personal choice. I'm not a fan of living alone; if that's really important to you then make choices elsewhere.   

Adding: agree that Chinatown/LES are good potential options as well.

+1 on all this.  I live in Clinton Hill and work in downtown Manhattan.  The area is beautiful and "neighborhoody."  My subway commute is a very easy 25 minutes door to door.  Lots of nightlife spots and fun places to hang out even if I don't feel like leaving my neighborhood.  I'm looking forward to biking over the bridge as the weather warms up since it's only 20 minutes as per google maps.   

Put me in the camp of maximizing your social life and minimizing your commute.  At a previous job I had a 70 minute commute and it was horrible.  Under 30 minutes from now on.

[nanu]

Posting to follow since I'm moving to NYC/NJ soon.
Would also be interested knowing why people oppose Jersey City so much

Here's my opinion (as someone who's never lived in Jersey City):

Jersey City is served by the PATH train, not the subway.  This means that your work either needs to be near the PATH train stations in manhattan, or you need to make a transfer.  Transfers - particularly between transit systems - are often the most obnoxious and time consuming parts of commutes.  Don't structure your life so you have to do several each day.  Subway time should be spent chilling out and reading or people watching or whatever.  Hustling to make transfers is awful. 

Secondly, the PATH train runs 24 hours a day, but on much less frequent service than the subway in off-hours.  You can wait for quite a while to get back to your place in Jersey City after a late night in Manhattan.

Lastly, the number of PATH stations in Jersey city is limited, and apartments near these stations are notably more pricey.  It's possible to live in Jersey City and add lots of time to your commute (due to walking to the PATH train and transfers) and find that you're not saving much money at all for the trouble. 

I looked long and hard at Jersey City, but never had an office near enough to a PATH station to make it work.  If you DID have an office on top of one of those stations, I would recommend looking into some shared places around the Jersey City PATH stops - it could totally work. 

Keep in mind, if your office is near this hub, not-too-far stations off the 2/3, 4/5, A/C, J/Z, and N/R lines in Brooklyn are ALL likely to result in sub 30 minute commutes.  Don't fuck around with neighborhoods that will result in miserable commutes.  Case in point: I live in Astoria, which I love, but would never recommend to you.  Living in Astoria and commuting to midtown is life on easy mode.  Astoria to the southern tip of Manhattan would be fucking awful.  Brooklyn has its own nice/affordable neighborhoods, that I would move to if I worked in southern Manhattan

I am nearly certain you could find a great hood in Brooklyn off one of the aforementioned lines, with a roommate you like, in a 'hood you enjoy, for less than $1,500 for your share.

The Grove street PATH station in Jersey City is about ~30 minutes from my office (Chelsea), and ~20 minutes from my girlfriend's office (FiDi), both of those without any transfer (though a bit of a walk from the respective stations to the respective offices).
And I already have a roommate that I like (quite a lot actually), but we don't want to share an apartment with any other people.

From looking online and based on some listings sent to us by real estate agents, prices in Manhattan are significantly higher for significantly worse apartments...
In Jersey City/Hoboken there seem to be very nice apartments for approx. $2500/month whereas in Manhattan even $3000/month apartments look worse (not to mention the "wonderful" NYC resident taxes and such).

We're actually going to spend a week in NY/NJ later this month to look through potential neighborhoods and apartments and get a feel for them.
However, any advice from locals is always appreciated.

[sheepstache]

Others have made good comments. Personally, I would follow the advice to plan to move after the first year (this has the added bonus of discouraging you from accumulating too much stuff) and I would live the first year in the city. The reason is that you won't appreciate the peace and quiet of NJ as much as you would after living in the city and you aren't going to enjoy it as much if you're imaging the madcap escapades you could be having in the city. If you do it in the reverse, first year in nj then move to the city, the city nightlife won't live up to your expectations, the lurid technicolor fantasies you couldn't help but indulge in while gazing out of your bereft solitude towards the Hudson. 

After a year living in the city you'll either realize it's for you and you'll never be able to live anywhere else or you'll reflect with maturity that, like the rest of us, you're a fairly boring individual who is fine going out once every couple of weeks, you have no interest in seeing Broadway shows, if you never have to take another ironic body shot it'll be too soon, and that maybe you would like to get a cat.

As a young woman I'm not taking the subway home at 2 a.m.  Cabs are sometimes needed

As a young woman myself I'm not sure what difference your gender makes. The subway is perfectly safe at all hours.

If someone is super drunk I might feel better about them taking a cab, but if they're regularly getting too drunk to take the subway, there are bigger issues than the cab fare's affect on their budget :) Or sometimes there are more scheduled repairs and detours at night and a cab will just be super nice and worth it as oppose to taking 3 hours to get home. So, yeah, you'll take a cab once in awhile.

[EfficientN]

OP Here.

There has been a lot of feedback, and having to explain my options out loud has a done a ton for me, just in understanding my options. So you thank all; this is actually very valuable to me. Before this post, I was fairly determined to live in Manhattan, preferably alone. Now, I've been calling former roommates (who I was very compatible with, roommate-wise) in the area and catching up on what their current plans are. It appears that Brooklyn is comparable price-wise to JC, with comparable commute times, so I'm going to research what prices I can get.

One wrinkle is that I don't have substantial time to physically visit the city. Thankfully, there is spring break soon, during which I'll be walking through the neighborhood of Brooklyn posters here have written.

[ioseftavi]

OP Here.

There has been a lot of feedback, and having to explain my options out loud has a done a ton for me, just in understanding my options. So you thank all; this is actually very valuable to me. Before this post, I was fairly determined to live in Manhattan, preferably alone. Now, I've been calling former roommates (who I was very compatible with, roommate-wise) in the area and catching up on what their current plans are. It appears that Brooklyn is comparable price-wise to JC, with comparable commute times, so I'm going to research what prices I can get...

Way to keep an open mind, OP.  Hopefully you find a great spot that gives you a nice commute, a happy social life, and leaves you a bit more money in your pocket than the more expensive living options you were considering.  Be sure to let us know where you land!

[NYCMiniBee133]

Another NYCer who moved here after college voting enthusiastically that you find yourself a place in the city itself. It's been true for pretty much all of my friends - if you're in JC or Queens, social life is much much harder. People who invest a lot into it are just fine, but it's the rest of us who aren't as proactive who definitely see a drop off on social activity.

I think roommates is the way to go. Can you get plugged into the local colleges' list serv through a friend? I had the opportunity to interview a ton of people when I moved out and found someone to replace myself with my roommate. Meeting in person and hearing what they do and how they like to spend their time were really great indicators. I know that sounds so basic, but maybe you can look into craigslist listings of people looking for roommates with this in mind. The programmers and folks in finance tended to be really responsible and CLEAN!

[DA]

Live in Brooklyn with roommates (not Brooklyn Heights, somewhere cheaper). Brooklyn is the place to be for 20-somethings. Manhattan is the place to be if you make I-banking money or are already obscenely wealthy. You'll get a lot more for your money in Brooklyn, and you'll probably get lucky more often too. 

Save your meals out for social occasions--drastically limit your purchases of prepared food for solo consumption. Find a cheap grocery store ("Asian" stores can be cheap; Trader Joe's is also pretty damn cheap for NYC).

You can find house parties in Brooklyn or Queens, which are so much cheaper than bars (and often more fun). You won't find the same thing in Manhattan unless you run in pretty rarefied circles, so you're stuck going to bars/clubs/etc.

[lise]

Save your meals out for social occasions--drastically limit your purchases of prepared food for solo consumption. Find a cheap grocery store ("Asian" stores can be cheap; Trader Joe's is also pretty damn cheap for NYC).

+1 ... reminds me of this article ...

http://nymag.com/thecut/2014/11/21-women-on-the-dumbest-things-theyve-bought.html

[CanuckExpat]

One thing you do want to consider is quality of life and what you enjoy the most.
I've now been in situations where I've been able /had  to walk to work, bike, take public transit, drive and do the mixed transportation thing.

The method I have enjoyed the most has always been walking. It's relaxing and and mind clearing (but also helps you think) in a way that even biking commuting isn't, at least for me.

Of course everyone is different, but I'd think about what you would enjoy the most and what would bring the most value to your life.

If that means say getting a smaller apartment or roommates to be able to walk to work and still save an amount of money you think is right for you, maybe that is worth the trade off.

[theonethatgotaway]

I just want to specify that if you do live in BK vs. JC (BK is much more expensive rent wise) your taxes will be $3,500.85 higher (per year) if you are on 100k due to the City tax, about $300 per month.

[lise]

One thing you do want to consider is quality of life and what you enjoy the most.
I've now been in situations where I've been able /had  to walk to work, bike, take public transit, drive and do the mixed transportation thing.

The method I have enjoyed the most has always been walking. It's relaxing and and mind clearing (but also helps you think) in a way that even biking commuting isn't, at least for me.

Of course everyone is different, but I'd think about what you would enjoy the most and what would bring the most value to your life.

If that means say getting a smaller apartment or roommates to be able to walk to work and still save an amount of money you think is right for you, maybe that is worth the trade off.

+1 on the walking.  People do bike in NYC but I found it stressful.  That's why I think Lower East Side, Chinatown, East Village should be on the list of places to look at because I'm a walker!  The girls next door to me pay about $1,400 each (3 bedroom apt) in a 6 year old building on the LES (look far East for quieter neighborhood type streets).  My friend pays $1,200 in Park Slope in a share (older style apt - not Park Slope character building) but she also has to buy a monthly subway ticket so she's not saving that much more than my neighbors who walk to work.