Author Topic: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)  (Read 4984 times)

doneby35

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2017, 10:01:15 AM »
I don't think the OP meant anything by saying "girl", don't give him/her such a hard time for something so benign.
Example: Person 1 says "I've been seeing this new girl". If person 2 says "how rude of you to call her a girl, she's older than 14", then person 2 is being irrational and is focusing on the wrong thing.
However, in a professional setting, of course you don't go referring to people as girls and boys.

As to the main topic, it's simple, just look into other opportunities. If you happen to find something better, then leave.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2017, 10:10:27 AM »
I don't think the OP meant anything by saying "girl", don't give him/her such a hard time for something so benign.

That's like saying it's okay to be a little racist as long as you are just talking casually to your friends, but you keep it out of the workplace and act professionally there. The OP was talking about his boss. The word "girl" is not appropriate. Period. His follow up explanaition made it clear he was using "girl" specifically as a pejorative.

He's young. Getting some negative feedback on bad behaviour is doing him a favour.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 10:13:12 AM by Retire-Canada »

Tester

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2017, 03:50:59 PM »
And if your boss senses that attitude form you she may have deservedly given you no raise on purpose.

I am sorry but I can only say bullshit.
If the manager did that they should find another job and for sure not managing people.
I don't think the raises are given based on attitude.
If attitude is a problem that should be reflected in the review.
If the things listed in the first post are accurate there was no such remark in the review...

For the thread starter:
Welcome to the machine.

You should not give a shit about their limits on raise funds.
It is not your job to do that.
Your job is to do good work and their job is to recognize this and compensate it.
As long as they say: you are very good at what you do - and then they don't show that they are either lying or bullshiting.
Move. And be prepared to move again.

YoungInvestor

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2017, 09:04:35 PM »
I don't think the OP meant anything by saying "girl", don't give him/her such a hard time for something so benign.

That's like saying it's okay to be a little racist as long as you are just talking casually to your friends, but you keep it out of the workplace and act professionally there. The OP was talking about his boss. The word "girl" is not appropriate. Period. His follow up explanaition made it clear he was using "girl" specifically as a pejorative.

He's young. Getting some negative feedback on bad behaviour is doing him a favour.

There's a difference between casually mentioning it and derailing his thread.

I'm in the camp of those thinking that it would be incredibly petty of a manager to hold a grudge for this without mentioning anything and then passive-aggressively try to convey a message through a horrible raise. If she had a problem with that, she could have started by casually mentioning it and then having a stern conversation.

It's so far outside of the realm of reasonableness as to be pretty much impossible. And if it were true, the manager would be the one with the biggest attitude problem.

RidetheRain

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2017, 09:52:01 AM »
I don't think the OP meant anything by saying "girl", don't give him/her such a hard time for something so benign.

That's like saying it's okay to be a little racist as long as you are just talking casually to your friends, but you keep it out of the workplace and act professionally there. The OP was talking about his boss. The word "girl" is not appropriate. Period. His follow up explanaition made it clear he was using "girl" specifically as a pejorative.

He's young. Getting some negative feedback on bad behaviour is doing him a favour.

There's a difference between casually mentioning it and derailing his thread.

I'm in the camp of those thinking that it would be incredibly petty of a manager to hold a grudge for this without mentioning anything and then passive-aggressively try to convey a message through a horrible raise. If she had a problem with that, she could have started by casually mentioning it and then having a stern conversation.

It's so far outside of the realm of reasonableness as to be pretty much impossible. And if it were true, the manager would be the one with the biggest attitude problem.

Hi YoungInvestor. Thanks for the support, but I think I have been thoroughly spanked here. I obviously wasn't thinking from a professional mindset when I wrote the comment and assumed that it was okay to speak casually here on an internet forum, but we do need to be careful with language in all situations - not just in a professional setting where people can hear. I have always considered girl to be the opposite of guy, but my own personal belief doesn't change societal context and using a word in a way that others don't understand derails the point of speaking in the first place. I would never say that in a professional setting (beyond a relaxed joke of who was "new"; I myself am the "old new") which means that I shouldn't say it at all.

I think my boss is excellent at what she does. I consider her a friend as well as a coworker. She is very professional and forthcoming and definitely my superior in both the org chart and experience and ability. I am upset that I said something that would diminish her at all. I'm not unaware of her shortcomings as I mentioned, but that is in a small yearly context vs her excellent day to day managing.

I will point out that I am a girl, unlike the general assumption.
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dreams_and_discoveries

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2017, 02:59:08 PM »
Impressed you have come back to update, hope the comments didn't come across as too harsh...I had this niggling idea that you might be female!

Anyway, now understand your point of view that girl is the opposite of guy. I have to ask where did you get the idea they were comparable? Is this taught, or a product of culture somewhere?

It reminds me of a work conversation the other day, when a colleague didn't realise how bad the situation in Saudi was, and was really shocked that adult women are literally second class citizens, and still need a male guardian.

RidetheRain

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2017, 04:16:15 PM »
Impressed you have come back to update, hope the comments didn't come across as too harsh...I had this niggling idea that you might be female!

Anyway, now understand your point of view that girl is the opposite of guy. I have to ask where did you get the idea they were comparable? Is this taught, or a product of culture somewhere?

It reminds me of a work conversation the other day, when a colleague didn't realise how bad the situation in Saudi was, and was really shocked that adult women are literally second class citizens, and still need a male guardian.

As someone pointed out, too many people are upset about it to be a quick disagreement of personality. I'm a little sad that people decided it was indicative of my character, but a poorly timed joke and the internet wall that hides intent can do that. I've been stressing over it for days because I've been worried that I'm a terrible person and that I've been hiding this awful bias. I'm afraid I took the comments a bit personally. I even went to confession over it. My priest thought I was nuts. But he was the one that suggested I post again with my self reflection.

As for the reasoning for using the word "girl": I guess I didn't really think about it. I'm used to people saying "Meet the guys and girls" and other phrases like that. I'm used to the two words really being honestly treated as the same level of respect. I said above that I wouldn't use the phrase in a professional setting - but I wouldn't say "guy" in a professional setting either. It's basically slang. That's the same reason I wouldn't use the word in relation to an older woman than myself, I generally don't use slang/informal language when speaking about elders - that's probably a "learned" thing. I'll be honest, while I'll stop using "girl" in respect to a female adult if only to keep from giving people the wrong impression, I do not understand the use of the word "gal." That word appeared in my vocabulary in my late teens. I had never heard the word prior to college and it still feels weird in my mouth. When I do hear it used, there's usually a wry tone of voice as if the person is almost laughing over the word. I'm not a fan of how that feels. I can only assume that this is how people feel when hearing the word "girl" and for that, I apologize.

I guess I was a little taken aback that people are so offended and I'm now reevaluating interactions with others when I've been called girl trying to figure out if I was being disrespected. I certainly didn't think so at the time. I consider myself a "girl" despite my age. It's an informal word to describe my gender - not my age or maturity or capability. I'm a little sad that the word has been taken from me since I consider it a way to describe my gender and therefore my identity as a person. I guess I just don't know what word to use otherwise "woman" is very formal for informal occasions, "lady" generally means someone much older, "gal" I just can't get used to, and "guy" really leans masculine which can be confusing.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 04:18:47 PM by RidetheRain »
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chasesfish

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2017, 04:34:06 PM »
How's the lobbying for a raise or searching other opportunities going?

I find it awesome that you've self identified as a girl :)
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Cromacster

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2017, 04:36:25 PM »
Hmm I guess I was right.  I assumed the Op was...dare I say...a girl.  I think others assumed you were a boy.

</end Jokes> 

I run in to the same issue, usually in discussions with my wife or friends.  "this girl at <insert location>".  I'm aware it's not the PC  thing to say (is that what this is? not sure).  But it feels weird or oddly formal to say "this woman at <insert location>".  To me it feels almost robotic.  I probably use chick as well, but I feel that some might find that worse than girl.  If I were referring to a guy, I would use guy or dude.  I wouldn't refer to him as "man"
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 04:38:15 PM by Cromacster »
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lhamo

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2017, 05:13:01 PM »
I assumed you were male.   Sorry.   I think it does read slightly differently if it is a female of roughly the same age calling someone a girl.   But I still think it is wise to avoid it in work-related contexts.

Here is a list of how I usually pair up the various iterations of heteronormative gender opposites (apologies to the non-binary out there -- I try to be respectful of preferences but my mind generates the binary most easily):

girls/boys
guys/gals
ladies/gentlemen
dudes/chicks
women/men
males/females
Wherever you go, there you are

mm1970

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2017, 05:27:42 PM »
PS - don't call your boss a girl if she's over the age of 14.

She has a hello kitty doll on her desk and talks like she's a kindergarten teacher. For all I know she may be 14.

It doesn't matter.

That's an asshole thing to say.

I don't think it's an asshole thing to say.

There's nothing wrong with the word "girl" when describing a female person roughly the same age as myself or younger. If she were a man I'd have said "the new guy" which wouldn't be offensive at all. I really don't see how using the female version of that phrase is suddenly wrong. It's also pretty shitty to assume anything about our professional relationship based on one word. It would be doing her a disservice to assume that she would act underhandedly to deny me a raise instead of talking to me.

The hello kitty joke was probably unnecessary since apparently, this wasn't a joke like I assumed.
I HAVE NOT BEEN A "GIRL" SINCE I TURNED 18.

IT'S A FUCKING ASSHOLE THING TO SAY TO A FEMALE ADULT.

The female version of "guy" is "guy" or "woman".


Also, go look for another job.  It took me a long time to come to this realization (but I'm still way underpaid).
It's not personal.  The company wants to get the best people they can for the least amount of money.  If you stay, they "win", so to speak.
You are your own best advocate.

In my experience, it's pretty rare to have a company be really good about giving raises and bonuses regularly.  It does happen.  Spouse works for one, a few friends also work for them.  For the most part, it's about the bottom line and you are just a number.

The only way that changes is if people start leaving.  Even then, some companies will "shrug" (not change their policies) and keep on keepin' on.  You may not help yourself, but you may help the people that come after you.

Especially at your age/ level.  I was managing young engineers for awhile.  My very first engineer was up for a raise year #1 and year #2, and got lowballed by my boss, who held the purse strings.  I asked my boss "how do you expect us to get him from where he is now, to $10-15k more than that, on 3-4% a year?  Because that's what an engineer with 2 years of experience is worth."  Answer: "Good question, I don't know."  In fact many companies just don't have a way to do that, unless you leave and get a counter-offer.  (For the record, two short months after that conversation and the crappy raise, my engineer left to get a job that paid $18k more.)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 05:40:07 PM by mm1970 »

JLee

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2017, 05:38:54 PM »
PS - don't call your boss a girl if she's over the age of 14.

She has a hello kitty doll on her desk and talks like she's a kindergarten teacher. For all I know she may be 14.

It doesn't matter.

That's an asshole thing to say.

I don't think it's an asshole thing to say.

There's nothing wrong with the word "girl" when describing a female person roughly the same age as myself or younger. If she were a man I'd have said "the new guy" which wouldn't be offensive at all. I really don't see how using the female version of that phrase is suddenly wrong. It's also pretty shitty to assume anything about our professional relationship based on one word. It would be doing her a disservice to assume that she would act underhandedly to deny me a raise instead of talking to me.

The hello kitty joke was probably unnecessary since apparently, this wasn't a joke like I assumed.
I HAVE NOT BEEN A "GIRL" SINCE I TURNED 18.

IT'S A FUCKING ASSHOLE THING TO SAY TO A FEMALE ADULT.

The female version of "guy" is "guy" or "woman".

You're loudly yelling at another female adult.

FYI.

Goldielocks

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2017, 06:42:27 PM »
Hey OP,

It wasn't your initial "girl" comment that stirred up the hornets' nest.  It was your defense of it after the gentle correction that triggered all the responses.  (That and some comments about your boss).

We understand that many many people still use "girl" to describe grown women.   About 10 years ago, in my early 30's it started to get my hackles up, because I kept hearing it at work... "Let's give the girls present X for the office christmas gift"...  "It's ok, the girls can clean up the lunch meeting while we go out to the client meeting".  Honestly, far far too many women in their 60's were being called girls at work, because they had admin roles.  And there I was, the engineer that was supposed to go out to the client meeting..  was I a "girl" as well?  Was the admin person who did senior database work just a lower paid worker or a valued employee?

I think of it this way.   Lots of people use the term "Honey"  or even "Sweetheart / Sweetie", especially in Texas!  It is a default term so no one thinks about it, not intended to be disrespectful, but tending to be highly so when broadly applied to people you don't really know or in a business setting.


JLee

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2017, 08:33:11 PM »
Hey OP,

It wasn't your initial "girl" comment that stirred up the hornets' nest.  It was your defense of it after the gentle correction that triggered all the responses.  (That and some comments about your boss).

We understand that many many people still use "girl" to describe grown women.   About 10 years ago, in my early 30's it started to get my hackles up, because I kept hearing it at work... "Let's give the girls present X for the office christmas gift"...  "It's ok, the girls can clean up the lunch meeting while we go out to the client meeting".  Honestly, far far too many women in their 60's were being called girls at work, because they had admin roles.  And there I was, the engineer that was supposed to go out to the client meeting..  was I a "girl" as well?  Was the admin person who did senior database work just a lower paid worker or a valued employee?

I think of it this way.   Lots of people use the term "Honey"  or even "Sweetheart / Sweetie", especially in Texas!  It is a default term so no one thinks about it, not intended to be disrespectful, but tending to be highly so when broadly applied to people you don't really know or in a business setting.

I take issue with people claiming the blanket statement that "X term is offensive to all Y people, therefore you shouldn't use it" -- because they're then speaking on the behalf of every. other. person. in that group. In this case, the person saying "girl" was, in fact, also a woman.  Numerous people then jumped on the "well women don't like X" -- blissfully ignorant that the person they were calling out was one of those people who was allegedly offended.

Am I being pedantic? Perhaps. It does bother me, though, when a few people will speak on behalf of everyone in their particular group, despite others from that group saying that they do not find X offensive.

Language evolves over time - I may ask my linguist friend if the word "girl" may be evolving to be the equivalent of "guy" in modern language.

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2017, 08:48:49 PM »
JLee,

I believe I spoke from my personal opinion / point of view / frame of reference, used personal examples from my history in my post..  I have no idea why you think otherwise or why you take issue with me.

"I take issue with people claiming the blanket statement that "X term is offensive to all Y people, therefore you shouldn't use it".


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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2017, 08:55:38 PM »
JLee,

I believe I spoke from my personal opinion / point of view / frame of reference, used personal examples from my history in my post..  I have no idea why you think otherwise or why you take issue with me.

"I take issue with people claiming the blanket statement that "X term is offensive to all Y people, therefore you shouldn't use it".


I don't have an issue with you specifically. As I said "I take issue with people claiming the blanket statement [...]."

Examples from this thread alone:

That's an asshole thing to say.

But trust, women do not like to be called it referred to as girl

Firstly "girl" wtf - just dont.  Always try to default to showing respect.

Hell, this use of girl and setting masculine norms for a workplace culture needs to stop - I take it you are male?

I would be the one labelled unprofessional if I went around referring to them as boys--as you've been told your habit of calling women 'girls' is doing, despite your refusal to hear it.

The word "girl" is not appropriate. Period. His follow up explanaition made it clear he was using "girl" specifically as a pejorative.

He's young. Getting some negative feedback on bad behaviour is doing him a favour.

Quote from: mm1970
IT'S A FUCKING ASSHOLE THING TO SAY TO A FEMALE ADULT.


See my point?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 08:57:51 PM by JLee »

Goldielocks

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2017, 08:58:36 PM »
JLee,  I replied to you because you quoted my text as an example of what you take issue with. 
Perhaps it was just  your hitting "quote" too fast in your passion for this topic, instead of a generic "reply".

doneby35

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2017, 08:59:21 PM »
Is it just me or is everyone on this thread overreacting to the word "girl"?

JLee

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #68 on: December 04, 2017, 09:00:38 PM »
JLee,  I replied to you because you quoted my text as an example of what you take issue with. 
Perhaps it was just  your hitting "quote" too fast in your passion for this topic, instead of a generic "reply".

I quoted your post because it was on the topic I was discussing and I provided my personal viewpoint in response to yours.

I apologize if you find that offensive for some reason, but I do feel that my language was quite explicitly clear as to my intended meaning.  I'll be happy to remove the quote of your post if that would be preferable.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 09:04:03 PM by JLee »

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2017, 10:38:28 PM »
Quote
Is it just me or is everyone on this thread overreacting to the word "girl"?

Yeah, many threads on these forums can be really off the deep end politically. At least everywhere I've lived the word "gal" is unacceptable like "y'all" or "ain't" and the correct term to use is girl unless you need to be extremely formal. Adult male humans are guys and adult female humans are girls. To find a way to be insulted by that is absolute insanity.

dreams_and_discoveries

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #70 on: December 05, 2017, 12:16:16 AM »
Quote
Is it just me or is everyone on this thread overreacting to the word "girl"?

Yeah, many threads on these forums can be really off the deep end politically. At least everywhere I've lived the word "gal" is unacceptable like "y'all" or "ain't" and the correct term to use is girl unless you need to be extremely formal. Adult male humans are guys and adult female humans are girls. To find a way to be insulted by that is absolute insanity.


See this intrigues me, 'cause where I am kids are boys/girls and adults are men/women.  Boys grow and mature into men, and girls to women. By differentiating between the sexes here, it seems to imply boys grow into guys, but girls remain girls??.  So in fact you are labelling male colleagues as mature and responsible, but implying female colleagues are child like.

If you really can't understand why using these words causes offence, I have to question your environment, and am imagining a saudi like world where women really are second class citizens, and have no rights.

Maybe we should all start a campaign to refer to males of all ages in workplace settings as boys and balance it out?? Or do we need a word for grown women, to pair with guys that also implies girls have grown and matured into gals/another new word of choice.


JLee

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #71 on: December 05, 2017, 12:30:30 AM »
Quote
Is it just me or is everyone on this thread overreacting to the word "girl"?

Yeah, many threads on these forums can be really off the deep end politically. At least everywhere I've lived the word "gal" is unacceptable like "y'all" or "ain't" and the correct term to use is girl unless you need to be extremely formal. Adult male humans are guys and adult female humans are girls. To find a way to be insulted by that is absolute insanity.


See this intrigues me, 'cause where I am kids are boys/girls and adults are men/women.  Boys grow and mature into men, and girls to women. By differentiating between the sexes here, it seems to imply boys grow into guys, but girls remain girls??.  So in fact you are labelling male colleagues as mature and responsible, but implying female colleagues are child like.

If you really can't understand why using these words causes offence, I have to question your environment, and am imagining a saudi like world where women really are second class citizens, and have no rights.

Maybe we should all start a campaign to refer to males of all ages in workplace settings as boys and balance it out?? Or do we need a word for grown women, to pair with guys that also implies girls have grown and matured into gals/another new word of choice.

Perhaps words have different connotations across different regions and groups of people?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 12:41:52 AM by JLee »

Goldielocks

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #72 on: December 05, 2017, 12:48:38 AM »
Quote
Is it just me or is everyone on this thread overreacting to the word "girl"?

Yeah, many threads on these forums can be really off the deep end politically. At least everywhere I've lived the word "gal" is unacceptable like "y'all" or "ain't" and the correct term to use is girl unless you need to be extremely formal. Adult male humans are guys and adult female humans are girls. To find a way to be insulted by that is absolute insanity.


See this intrigues me, 'cause where I am kids are boys/girls and adults are men/women.  Boys grow and mature into men, and girls to women. By differentiating between the sexes here, it seems to imply boys grow into guys, but girls remain girls??.  So in fact you are labelling male colleagues as mature and responsible, but implying female colleagues are child like.

If you really can't understand why using these words causes offence, I have to question your environment, and am imagining a saudi like world where women really are second class citizens, and have no rights.

Maybe we should all start a campaign to refer to males of all ages in workplace settings as boys and balance it out?? Or do we need a word for grown women, to pair with guys that also implies girls have grown and matured into gals/another new word of choice.

Or perhaps across different regions and groups of people, words have different connotations.

I don't think that is the case...(especially for this specific word, I don't think that regionally people disagree on its basic definition)...   rather that under the weight of very commonplace regional usage, the meaning and impact of words and use of certain expressions is vastly reduced and does not register to most users.  It is an automatic usage, rather than a considered usage.

doneby35

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #73 on: December 05, 2017, 08:33:10 AM »
Perhaps too many people just get offended so easily. None of the my friends, whether they are of the female or male gender, are offended because someone called them a girl or a boy instead of a man or a woman, that is just silly.
Also, if you called guys in the workplace boys they probably wouldn't care at all.

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #74 on: December 05, 2017, 12:08:47 PM »
Some people love to be all anti-PC until you hit on one of there nerves. 
Be the person Mr. Rogers knows you can be.

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #75 on: December 05, 2017, 12:40:19 PM »
JFC add me to the list of women who do not give a shit if someone calls them a girl, and are stunned that anyone actually gives a shit enough to bother getting offended and/or caring.

I am so glad I don't have any delicate friends who get offended at the drop of a hat.
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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #76 on: December 05, 2017, 12:56:41 PM »
JFC add me to the list of women who do not give a shit if someone calls them a girl, and are stunned that anyone actually gives a shit enough to bother getting offended and/or caring.

I am so glad I don't have any delicate friends who get offended at the drop of a hat.

I am not a "girl".  I am a 47 year old engineering project manager.

I am the only woman in my building.

I am often the only woman in the conference room.

Where I live, the term "girl" is offensive.

In my industry, it is used to show power, or to put down the "females" in the room, thus making the speaker look "better than".

If that's not been your experience...awesome for you. 

If I'm on vacation somewhere where "girl" is more common (the south?  Dunno) I wouldn't sweat it too much.  But at work?  Completely different story.  And if you are in a primarily female occupied job, it might be NBD either.

doneby35

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #77 on: December 05, 2017, 01:32:43 PM »
JFC add me to the list of women who do not give a shit if someone calls them a girl, and are stunned that anyone actually gives a shit enough to bother getting offended and/or caring.

I am so glad I don't have any delicate friends who get offended at the drop of a hat.

I am not a "girl".  I am a 47 year old engineering project manager.

I am the only woman in my building.

I am often the only woman in the conference room.

Where I live, the term "girl" is offensive.


Where do you live? California? :P The term "girl" is NOT offensive.

Meesh

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #78 on: December 05, 2017, 01:42:43 PM »
so getting back to the original thread...

I agree with the people who said that if they truly valued an employee and are considered a "superstar" they would go out of their way to make sure you didn't get offended and leave. This would not only be shown through raises, promotions and bonuses but also in how they treat you. Managers that encourage you to take vacations or limit your work load because they think you do too much are trying to make sure you don't burn out and quit. The last think they want a great employee that saves them massive money for them is jump ship.

If you really are going well, good reviews etc and you are constantly improving your skills in your field then and you are not being taken seriously then its time to look around for new jobs. Take a good look online and find out your fields salary range and where you sit on it. Update your resume and start applying, ask crazy high since you already have a job and you aren't desperate. You also can afford to take your time finding the right position. This all works in your favor.

AlanStache

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #79 on: December 05, 2017, 01:54:33 PM »

I am not a "girl".  I am a 47 year old engineering project manager.

I am the only woman in my building.

I am often the only woman in the conference room.

Where I live, the term "girl" is offensive.

In my industry, it is used to show power, or to put down the "females" in the room, thus making the speaker look "better than".

If that's not been your experience...awesome for you. 

If I'm on vacation somewhere where "girl" is more common (the south?  Dunno) I wouldn't sweat it too much.  But at work?  Completely different story.  And if you are in a primarily female occupied job, it might be NBD either.


Where do you live? California? :P The term "girl" is NOT offensive.

and
"See this intrigues me, 'cause where I am kids are boys/girls and adults are men/women.  Boys grow and mature into men, and girls to women. By differentiating between the sexes here, it seems to imply boys grow into guys, but girls remain girls??.  So in fact you are labelling male colleagues as mature and responsible, but implying female colleagues are child like. "

Given the two above I dont see how "girl" in anywhere near a professional setting could not be offensive.

doneby35 - help me understand your position.  You quoted mm's post so how does it not compute for you? Do you think there needs to be intend to be offensive, where a term used just out of habit should be fine?  Do you see how a woman (especially) in a male dominated industry would not want to be referred to by a child title?  Help me understand your point of view.

Be the person Mr. Rogers knows you can be.

Spiffsome

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #80 on: December 07, 2017, 08:41:41 AM »
Another adult female professional checking in here. In my profession (law in Australia) it is generally not acceptable to refer to your female colleagues as girls. Some of the very old male lawyers still do it, but it marks them as dinosaurs. Some of the younger male lawyers refer to their female administrative assistants as girls, and it marks them as assholes. None of the female lawyers refer to themselves as girls, though some of the administrative staff do.

It's offensive because it's a diminutive being used in an environment where women have fought hard to be considered equals. It's a term applied to a child, and the word 'girl' has a long history of being used to dismiss women as childlike, irrational and inferior. There's probably a comparison to be made to the history of referring to African-American men as 'boys' in the States, which is also offensive.

mm1970

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #81 on: December 07, 2017, 10:26:10 AM »
JFC add me to the list of women who do not give a shit if someone calls them a girl, and are stunned that anyone actually gives a shit enough to bother getting offended and/or caring.

I am so glad I don't have any delicate friends who get offended at the drop of a hat.

I am not a "girl".  I am a 47 year old engineering project manager.

I am the only woman in my building.

I am often the only woman in the conference room.

Where I live, the term "girl" is offensive.


Where do you live? California? :P The term "girl" is NOT offensive.
Yes, I do.

And yes, it is offensive in a work place setting. Nobody refers to my male coworkers (engineers, managers, PhDs, directors, VPs) as "boys".

MayDay

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #82 on: December 07, 2017, 10:53:21 AM »
I cannot fucking believe people don't know it's offensive and are digging in on it being ok.

I just.

Can't. 
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trollwithamustache

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #83 on: December 07, 2017, 10:59:15 AM »
You guys are Ra-dickulous.

OP asked for some advice. OP was a bit casual with language. Maybe OP is too casual in relationship/thinking/dealing with her boss. It is something to think about how one handles oneself at work.

Is this case of the underpaid millennial really the biggest problem in American sexism?

TheAnonOne

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #84 on: December 07, 2017, 11:03:12 AM »
I will be on topic

I have 0 attachment to any organization. I would walk exactly when you can, at all times.

Hell, you should be applying and interviewing EVERY FEW MONTHS (less frequent as time passes), even if you like your job. At least for me, this has resulted in becoming one of the higher paid people in my entire industry a short 3-4 years out of college and now 5 years later, even higher.

WonderfulLife43

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #85 on: December 07, 2017, 12:01:11 PM »
In my experience:

* The best raises happen when you switch jobs.
* The best time to find a new job is while you still have a job.

So, update the resume, and look for other opportunities.  Good luck !

doneby35

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #86 on: December 07, 2017, 12:46:06 PM »
Everyone on this thread whining about the term "girl" being offensive is out of their minds. And that's coming from my wife.

For the OP, I know that this is not the focus of your topic, and you didn't say anything in an offensive way, yet somehow your use of the term "girl" turned into the focus, but please do not listen to the nonsense. Any sane person, whether it's a GIRL or a guy, when reading what you posted and specifically "My last boss was very willing to go to bat for his people, but the new girl is a little more placating and non-confrontational" will not turn into a dramatic social justice warrior and start complaining about it.

Just because some silly people think it's offensive and a bunch of other silly people agree with them, doesn't mean the entire world needs to agree and provide everyone with a safe space where feelings don't get hurt.

chasesfish

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #87 on: December 07, 2017, 05:34:02 PM »
Does anyone else just wonder if the original poster went and fought for that raise?
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damyst

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #88 on: December 09, 2017, 12:28:48 AM »
In my experience:

* The best raises happen when you switch jobs.
* The best time to find a new job is while you still have a job.


Yes and yes.
As a corollary, waiting to look for a new job until you're discharged of your current one can be a very expensive decision.

Established employers that know what they're doing should be raising your salary by a few percentage points every year even if you don't lift a finger to make it happen. If your company can't even do that, you should GTFO.
With smaller employers it can be a free-for-all. But here too, if the organization can't afford even a small raise, it means their situation is very precarious, and you should probably make your exit at the earliest opportunity.

damyst

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #89 on: December 09, 2017, 12:32:28 AM »
Everyone on this thread whining about the term "girl" being offensive is out of their minds. And that's coming from my wife.

For the OP, I know that this is not the focus of your topic, and you didn't say anything in an offensive way, yet somehow your use of the term "girl" turned into the focus, but please do not listen to the nonsense. Any sane person, whether it's a GIRL or a guy, when reading what you posted and specifically "My last boss was very willing to go to bat for his people, but the new girl is a little more placating and non-confrontational" will not turn into a dramatic social justice warrior and start complaining about it.

Just because some silly people think it's offensive and a bunch of other silly people agree with them, doesn't mean the entire world needs to agree and provide everyone with a safe space where feelings don't get hurt.

LOL.
"A whole bunch of people here disagree with my viewpoint. Clearly, they are all insane."

FIRE_Buckeye

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #90 on: December 09, 2017, 07:12:53 PM »
Nice derailing a thread for well over a page y'all, all over some loose language.
Pretty sure you've made your views on the term clear, and can move on.

OP, as others have said, clearly its time to start looking around (while making sure to not let your current performance slip much, if at all).
If your current employer doesn't appreciate your contributions enough to compensate you appropriately, there are many out there who gladly will.
Donít wait for the perfect moment. Take the moment and make it perfect.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Should I Be Pissed Off? (Annual Raises)
« Reply #91 on: December 09, 2017, 08:47:11 PM »
RidetheRain, if I were in your shoes, I would be pretty upset about the lack of a raise and the pittance of a bonus.  You've been there for four years, got the highest performance rating possible under their system, and this is what you get as a reward?  I'm sorry, but they should be showing better appreciation for your efforts and dedication than just their words.  You're in a prime spot for jumping ship to another employer -- you have enough experience to no longer be considered a newbie, you have a track record of loyalty and not job-hopping, and you hopefully can work a positive reference if you have a former manager you trust to confidentially vouch for you with prospective employers.  Even if they reevaluate your compensation in a year, they will not ever make up for holding you back this year.

In my opinion, you should start active job-searching now with hopes to make a move in the next few months.  Make sure you use the lateral move to give you a big salary bump -- changing companies is statistically the best opportunity for that to happen.  I highly recommend you start consulting the Ask A Manager website, written by Alison Green, for job-related advice.  For example:
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 08:50:18 PM by LeRainDrop »