Author Topic: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?  (Read 10766 times)

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Hey guys,

So our upstairs neighbor had a leaking water line going to her fridge which caused extensive damage to my unit below. This all transpired in the past week and a half and I had posted about it in the DIY section earlier on but figured I'd ask a more specific question here since there seems to be more exposure in this thread.

Anyway, she seems to be avoiding communicating with us and stalling on giving us her insurance information. We went ahead and opened a claim last weekend because she was apprehensive about the whole thing, also claiming to be "sick/ill" - she seems to keep wanting to know more information before giving us any info (I don't even know if she has filed a claim on her side, as there was no extensive damage to her unit other than a small area of her floor that was wet, per the inspector who checked our unit). I'm not sure what information she "needs" for herself... They had to rip out drywall in the kitchen of our unit as well as baseboard and carpet in the living room and bedroom with the adjoining wall, then blow fans and humidifiers for several days. The kitchen is a mess and we're basically waiting for the adjuster to give us an estimate for the repairs to proceed from there.

In short, we at least want our deductible back - it's $500 which may seem low to some of you but for all the trouble we've been through already, and considering it's no fault of our own, we'd like to get this back regardless. Our claims adjuster has already told us our premium isn't going to increase because this clearly wasn't our fault. But as far as the deductible is concerned, we can try calling her insurance company directly and asking them to pay us back (of course, as I said, it seems she's avoiding giving us information), otherwise it will go into subrogation but we want to be more proactive about trying to get the $$ back versus waiting for the subrogation. I guess it's not guaranteed either way. On the other hand, I've heard from several people saying this type of thing is fully on her and she should have paid out of pocket for everything without me even having to file a claim with my insurance (and that I likely could have gotten my HOA involved to 'enforce' this). The thing with that though is she seems to be trying to bury her head in the sand with everything.

My wife is so pissed off right now, and wants me/us to directly ask *her* for the deductible money back.

Any ideas on how I should proceed with all this?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 12:33:04 PM by jeromedawg »

Sibley

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7458
  • Location: Northwest Indiana
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2017, 01:36:41 PM »
Actually, maybe ask your insurance agent? this seems like something they've dealt with before, they probably have some suggestions.

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2017, 01:46:36 PM »
Actually, maybe ask your insurance agent? this seems like something they've dealt with before, they probably have some suggestions.

I did and all he told us was that we could contact her insurance company and request remittance directly. Otherwise, it will just go through subrogation. The problem though is that we've asked her multiple times and she keeps stalling. Of course, reclaiming the deductible is not a guarantee in either case but we'd like to try. It seems, and is implied, that legal action could be pursued if she continues to be uncooperative. I really want to just talk to her and ask her to hand over the $500 deductible but I don't want to make any rash decisions that could screw our chances up because I came off as "confrontational" in a negative light.

Also, forgot to mention that the upstairs neighbor is currently in escrow in hopes of selling her place. Part of me thinks she's trying to ignore and brush all this under the rug. She opened escrow just a few days prior to the leak happening.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 02:12:43 PM by jeromedawg »

GizmoTX

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1450
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2017, 02:29:06 PM »
What does your HOA say? I don't think subrogation includes your deductible.

I would not want to 'demand' payment in person -- too confrontational. She already knows what you want & is clearly hoping you will go away or she will be able to just leave. I'd send her a certified letter that unless you receive your deductible of $500 by x day, you will file in small claims court. Know that if you do get a judgment, you still have to enforce it.

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2017, 02:51:55 PM »
What does your HOA say? I don't think subrogation includes your deductible.

I would not want to 'demand' payment in person -- too confrontational. She already knows what you want & is clearly hoping you will go away or she will be able to just leave. I'd send her a certified letter that unless you receive your deductible of $500 by x day, you will file in small claims court. Know that if you do get a judgment, you still have to enforce it.

HOA basically said it's a "neighbor to neighbor" dispute and to settle it between ourselves... I didn't speak with the property/community manager directly though, so I'll probably call on Monday to follow-up and see if there's other recourse through the property mgmt company.

Our claims adjuster was saying that in cases like this subrogation *may* include the deductible. But he was encouraging us to contact her insurance company directly to request the repayment. Whether or not they will, who knows... I don't even know what that would look like if she hasn't opened a claim yet.

Wouldn't sending a letter like that with a 'threat' or ultimatum also be a bit too confrontational?

I'm drafting an email to her with a detailed timeline of all the remediation work that has been done, also reiterating the *fact* that the leak began in her unit and resulted in the water damage we sustained in our unit. And I've included pictures of the damage/remediation as well as a couple videos of a brief walkthrough (while the fans are all running). At the end of it, I'm asking her again for her insurance information and claim number. And I'm also planning to cc the senior property/community mgr, my parents (who I co-own with and who she also knows or has met before) and the insurance claims adjuster. It's more sort of appealing to her and pointing out "hey look at all the damage you caused - we need to figure something out here" without actually saying that.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 02:59:33 PM by jeromedawg »

Paul der Krake

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5854
  • Age: 16
  • Location: UTC-10:00
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2017, 02:58:16 PM »
Why isn't your insurance going after hers to recoup damages that are clearly your fault?

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2017, 03:00:39 PM »
Why isn't your insurance going after hers to recoup damages that are clearly your fault?

That's the idea of the subrogation process but our claims adjuster seemed to indicate it's 50/50 based on whether they determine "negligence" or not. BTW: you meant "damages that are clearly *her* fault" right? :) It just seems like a whole lot of 'waiting in suspense' to see whether or not that money is seen again. I'd prefer to try to get it up-front if I know there's a better chance of getting the money back sooner.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 03:02:26 PM by jeromedawg »

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8963
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2017, 04:48:34 PM »
If she's trying to sell the property, see if you can put a lien on the property for the damages.   

If you can, she'll have difficulty selling without paying you first, or putting up a bond for the damage amount to get the lien off the property.



sokoloff

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1191
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2017, 04:57:03 PM »
Assuming your insurance paid out anything reasonably sized, they will subrogate their claim against her/her insurance. (I can see them not bothering if it was only a few hundred bucks they paid, but anything sizable and where the blame is this clear-cut, I'd expect them to.)

On an auto insurance claim I had many years back, USAA [my insurance] subrogation covered the entire loss, meaning that once that was settled, USAA gave me the deductible settlement they received as part of the subrogation action.

Wouldn't sending a letter like that with a 'threat' or ultimatum also be a bit too confrontational?

I'm drafting an email to her with a detailed timeline of all the remediation work that has been done, also reiterating the *fact* that the leak began in her unit and resulted in the water damage we sustained in our unit. And I've included pictures of the damage/remediation as well as a couple videos of a brief walkthrough (while the fans are all running). At the end of it, I'm asking her again for her insurance information and claim number. And I'm also planning to cc the senior property/community mgr, my parents (who I co-own with and who she also knows or has met before) and the insurance claims adjuster. It's more sort of appealing to her and pointing out "hey look at all the damage you caused - we need to figure something out here" without actually saying that.
I wouldn't bother trying to "not say that". That's what happened. It's her responsibility (at least in your eyes and I agree with you); you want the money you've been put out. There's no need to be overly nice or accommodating about it. She owes you damages; you need to clearly and unambiguously ask for them. If she thinks you're a jerk for doing that, that's on her, not you.

LeRainDrop

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1834
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2017, 05:13:46 PM »
HOA basically said it's a "neighbor to neighbor" dispute and to settle it between ourselves... I didn't speak with the property/community manager directly though, so I'll probably call on Monday to follow-up and see if there's other recourse through the property mgmt company.

If you were in my state, which you are not, this is information is definitely accurate.  If no common area property was damaged, the HOA should not be involved in the resolution.  (I'm an HOA president and a lawyer here.)

Frankies Girl

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3899
  • Age: 86
  • Location: The oubliette.
  • Ghouls Just Wanna Have Funds!
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2017, 05:23:42 PM »
Have you actually spoken to her face to face and said basically:

"The damages in my condo were caused by your plumbing leak. My homeowner's insurance is covering my condo's remediation, renovations/repair, but it cost me $500 to cover my deductible. I am asking you to pay me back the $500. I'll be happy to take a check either today or sometime this week if that works out for you better."


jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2017, 05:33:46 PM »
Have you actually spoken to her face to face and said basically:

"The damages in my condo were caused by your plumbing leak. My homeowner's insurance is covering my condo's remediation, renovations/repair, but it cost me $500 to cover my deductible. I am asking you to pay me back the $500. I'll be happy to take a check either today or sometime this week if that works out for you better."

Not yet at this point. Partly why I'm asking around first. Don't want to 'shoot myself in the foot' per se by sounding off without having considered all avenues. Up above though, GizmoTX was suggesting that asking that might seem a bit too "confrontational" - if anything, I may include that in the email I'm drafting and cc'ing a bunch of people on.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 05:51:27 PM by jeromedawg »

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2017, 05:45:22 PM »
If she's trying to sell the property, see if you can put a lien on the property for the damages.   

If you can, she'll have difficulty selling without paying you first, or putting up a bond for the damage amount to get the lien off the property.

Interesting, how would one go about even starting with the process in this case? Doesn't there need to be some basis where I did some work on her place but she didn't pay for it? Can a homeowner who suffered damages as a result of another homeowner put a lien on that homeowner's property?

LeRainDrop

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1834
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2017, 05:57:50 PM »
If she's trying to sell the property, see if you can put a lien on the property for the damages.   

If you can, she'll have difficulty selling without paying you first, or putting up a bond for the damage amount to get the lien off the property.

Interesting, how would one go about even starting with the process in this case? ... Can a homeowner who suffered damages as a result of another homeowner put a lien on that homeowner's property?

No, not just like that.  It varies by state law, but most likely you'd need to sue and get a judgment against her.  The judgment can then be filed to lien her property.  I'm guessing that's probably not the avenue you want to take right away.

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2017, 06:01:22 PM »
If she's trying to sell the property, see if you can put a lien on the property for the damages.   

If you can, she'll have difficulty selling without paying you first, or putting up a bond for the damage amount to get the lien off the property.

Interesting, how would one go about even starting with the process in this case? ... Can a homeowner who suffered damages as a result of another homeowner put a lien on that homeowner's property?

No, not just like that.  It varies by state law, but most likely you'd need to sue and get a judgment against her.  The judgment can then be filed to lien her property.  I'm guessing that's probably not the avenue you want to take right away.

That makes sense... yea I'd want to avoid having to actually pursue any legal avenue over that amount money. I think there probably is a point of diminishing returns. I'm just trying to figure out how to best, strategically, steer her to do what's right to where it's not taxing and feels like I'm giving everything to go after it.

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2017, 10:08:20 PM »
If she's trying to sell the property, see if you can put a lien on the property for the damages.   

If you can, she'll have difficulty selling without paying you first, or putting up a bond for the damage amount to get the lien off the property.

Interesting, how would one go about even starting with the process in this case? ... Can a homeowner who suffered damages as a result of another homeowner put a lien on that homeowner's property?

No, not just like that.  It varies by state law, but most likely you'd need to sue and get a judgment against her.  The judgment can then be filed to lien her property.  I'm guessing that's probably not the avenue you want to take right away.

BTW: question for you on the legality side. I've heard a couple responses about how she can be held liable for none of this because it's "happenstance" and not "negligence" - she didn't *know* that the refrigerator was leaking and therefore could not ignore the fact that it was. Had she known and ignored or wrote it off, then she'd be liable. So because of the non-liability factor, there's basically no chance I'll get the deductible back. Does this sound about right? Or are there other factors to consider here?

Oh yea, and regarding liens in CA, I just found this: http://homeguides.sfgate.com/put-lien-house-california-6843.html
Seems you'd have to go to small claims court first.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 10:14:14 PM by jeromedawg »

sequoia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 614
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2017, 10:52:07 PM »
If she's trying to sell the property, see if you can put a lien on the property for the damages.   

If you can, she'll have difficulty selling without paying you first, or putting up a bond for the damage amount to get the lien off the property.

Interesting, how would one go about even starting with the process in this case? ... Can a homeowner who suffered damages as a result of another homeowner put a lien on that homeowner's property?

No, not just like that.  It varies by state law, but most likely you'd need to sue and get a judgment against her.  The judgment can then be filed to lien her property.  I'm guessing that's probably not the avenue you want to take right away.

That makes sense... yea I'd want to avoid having to actually pursue any legal avenue over that amount money. I think there probably is a point of diminishing returns. I'm just trying to figure out how to best, strategically, steer her to do what's right to where it's not taxing and feels like I'm giving everything to go after it.

Sounds like she is hoping you just go away after a while.

Isnt this is the purpose of small court claim? I am not a lawyer, and I am sure it varies from state to state, so you need to do your research. I would speak to her, give her a deadline, and tell her that I am taking her to small court claim after xx date.

I am following and interested how this end up. This is the main reason we avoid buying townhouse as rental properties. I have heard too many similar problems that originated from the neighbor's property.

Good luck OP!
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 10:56:45 PM by sequoia »

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 22387
  • Age: 66
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2017, 11:37:02 PM »
Not sure, but what about contacting her realtor to see if they know about the leak and damage it's caused? In CA, I'm thinking that would have to be disclosed. If so, her realtor might nudge her in the right direction.

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2017, 12:10:25 AM »
Not sure, but what about contacting her realtor to see if they know about the leak and damage it's caused? In CA, I'm thinking that would have to be disclosed. If so, her realtor might nudge her in the right direction.

Yep, I was just going to email him but was trying to get the wording right. I think he's already aware because we first got in contact with him the night I heard dripping and he advised us to shut the water to her unit. Then I saw him on Tuesday when the water damage remediation company came out and he asked what was going on - I told him what the plumber found and the damage incurred in our unit. I was going to follow-up with him but it was initially for the purpose of either getting him to have her provide insurance OR asking if he would nudge her to just repay me directly the deductible....

Which leads back to the biggest issue, in my mind, and that of "negligence" superseding "liability" - from several articles and posts I've read from others it seems like if there was no negligence (aka if the owner didn't know about or if they weren't aware of the leak), that they cannot be held liable. Now, I don't know if that's a universal truth across all of the US or if there are factors that affect this such as the state you live in or in accordance to whatever the CCRs state. But there are a few 'truth-tellers' out there making this sound like a pretty absolute truth hands-down no exceptions. I guess this is the crux of the issue, and I'd love to hear more especially from any of you lawyers, subrogation agents, insurance people, etc out there who might deal often in this area or related.
Of course, I suppose I could always ask my neighbor to repay the deductible anyway. But I'm wondering the order that I should ask/initiate (e.g. ask the neighbor to repay first and ask the realtor to consider nudging her as well - if she says no then get her insurance company info and ask them. If they say no then let it go to subrogation and hope I get the deductible back).
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 12:12:16 AM by jeromedawg »

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2017, 12:45:44 AM »
If she's trying to sell the property, see if you can put a lien on the property for the damages.   

If you can, she'll have difficulty selling without paying you first, or putting up a bond for the damage amount to get the lien off the property.

Interesting, how would one go about even starting with the process in this case? ... Can a homeowner who suffered damages as a result of another homeowner put a lien on that homeowner's property?

No, not just like that.  It varies by state law, but most likely you'd need to sue and get a judgment against her.  The judgment can then be filed to lien her property.  I'm guessing that's probably not the avenue you want to take right away.

That makes sense... yea I'd want to avoid having to actually pursue any legal avenue over that amount money. I think there probably is a point of diminishing returns. I'm just trying to figure out how to best, strategically, steer her to do what's right to where it's not taxing and feels like I'm giving everything to go after it.

Sounds like she is hoping you just go away after a while.

Isnt this is the purpose of small court claim? I am not a lawyer, and I am sure it varies from state to state, so you need to do your research. I would speak to her, give her a deadline, and tell her that I am taking her to small court claim after xx date.

I am following and interested how this end up. This is the main reason we avoid buying townhouse as rental properties. I have heard too many similar problems that originated from the neighbor's property.

Good luck OP!

Yea, it really seems she's trying to avoid contact in hopes that we'll just "forget about it" - not easy to forget how something so "little" caused our kitchen and bedroom to get all rearranged for what will probably be a month or more after all the repairs are finally wrapped up.

For anyone reading this who has ever thought that buying a condo, townhouse, etc is a great idea: DON'T DO IT. Just DON'T. Especially if it means you are either living above or below someone. With a townhome, I wouldn't be *as* concerned. And if it were a duplex that I owned  where the units were stacked, I also wouldn't be *as* concerned since both would be under my ownership. If it's someone else who lives/owns below or above you though, and especially in a condo, that's a completely different story. Condos as rentals are probably some of the worst investments out there otherwise, simply because of the association dues and the fact that you share so many common walls where you have no control over who the other tenants/occupants are.

EDIT: I plan on speaking with a lawyer tomorrow - I signed up for legal assistance through work benefits previously to get our will/trust done, and they offer advice/assistance for personal real estate/neighbor dispute issues. I figure I might as well take advantage of this since I"m signed up already.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 11:17:12 AM by jeromedawg »

sequoia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 614
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2017, 11:40:20 AM »
Thank you for the update @jeromedawg. I hope you do find a resolution on this. Please update us if you have a chance.

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2017, 04:46:37 PM »
One thing I forgot to mention was after going into escrow, I know there were contractors and inspectors who came out to look at her place. I had first suspected that potentially one of them may have done something to cause the leak. I pointed this out to the owner as well as the realtor asking if any of those contractors or inspectors, theirs or the buyers, might have pulled the fridge back to inspect the water line beforehand and caused the leakage somehow. They never got back to me with a factual answer, and mostly just denied it verbally. Per the realtor: "no I doubt they did anything like that" - of course, it is quite possible that nobody else including the owner or realtor were even around at the time these inspections occurred to know what was happening. I would concur that the contractors/inspectors *likely* didn't do anything but you can't just write them off if you don't know for certain.

To cover all bases, I hope the insurance company looks into that - I'm going to make sure I remember to mention it. It just seems quite coincidental that this would happen amidst all the foot traffic we had heard up there in the past week. We don't know what was going on exactly, but we knew there were people going in and out of the place frequently.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 04:48:37 PM by jeromedawg »

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 22387
  • Age: 66
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2017, 12:07:07 AM »
Talk to the lawyer, her realtor and the HOA. Do everything you can to keep the deal from closing. Chances are, once it's closed, you'll never see or hear from her again. Protect yourself.

human

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 787
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2017, 03:26:32 AM »
It doesn't sound like negligence caused the leak so why would anyone expect her to pay anything? I'd tell you to go take a hike and pay for no deductible insurance. I'm alwys surprised when people agree to pay off the other party's deductible in a no fault accident.

former player

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8888
  • Location: Avalon
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2017, 04:28:56 AM »
I'd be surprised if there was not something in the property ownership documents which dealt with this situation, because in a shared building it is just so common for water damage to spread in this way.  So your first job is to check all the documents you signed up to when buying and moving in.

Next, the law depends on the jurisdiction you are in.  In my jurisdiction I would be looking at a possible nuisance case, which would not depend on finding of negligence but would be strict liability.  You need legal advice on this, and as you have a source of free legal advice you should make use of it.

If your property documents and legal advice don't get you anywhere, it is still worth a polite letter to the owner, copied to her agent, asking for reimbursement.  Past that you could I suppose try to make a public fuss about it to her purchaser.  But $500 is not worth legal action or any other form of escalation.

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8186
  • Location: United States
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2017, 06:46:18 AM »
But $500 is not worth legal action or any other form of escalation.

When you have a legal coverage plan though, it's worth it - because you are already paying the lawyer and don't have to pay any extra.

SimpleCycle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2017, 07:37:18 AM »
If she's trying to sell the property, see if you can put a lien on the property for the damages.   

If you can, she'll have difficulty selling without paying you first, or putting up a bond for the damage amount to get the lien off the property.

This is a ridiculous suggestion, and in incredible bad faith.  Also not legally possible without a judgement in most states.

OP, if there was no negligence, then your neighbor is not legally responsible for compensating you.  Your insurance company might go through subrogation, and you might get your deductible back in the end, but you seem to be getting worked up over a minimal financial loss caused by an accident/bad luck.  Eat the loss, move on, and perhaps you'll be happily surprised by subrogation.

Also, this might not be the optimal time to mention this, but a $500 deductible on a homeowner's policy is ridiculously low.  You should be able to raise that substantially, save on premiums, and pay for any claims/deductibles out of savings.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/06/02/insurance-a-tax-on-people-who-are-bad-at-math/

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2017, 09:36:07 AM »
Also, this might not be the optimal time to mention this, but a $500 deductible on a homeowner's policy is ridiculously low.  You should be able to raise that substantially, save on premiums, and pay for any claims/deductibles out of savings.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/06/02/insurance-a-tax-on-people-who-are-bad-at-math/
Thanks... so how much is "too much" to be paying for homeowners insurance per year, for example? Our annual premium has hovered around $180 for the past few years but was up at around $200 before that. I've been in this place since 2007 (long before I got into MMM) so never thought much about reviewing insurance policies, etc... oh this is for about 1400sq ft condo (2bed/2bath with a den that could be a third bedroom). I think our coverage is generally lower for various things though - probably when I got it back then with my parents, they figured I didn't need so much coverage? Even the insurance sales people were trying to get us to up the coverage to their "recommended levels" at some point when I called in for something else... hahaha

But $500 is not worth legal action or any other form of escalation.

When you have a legal coverage plan though, it's worth it - because you are already paying the lawyer and don't have to pay any extra.

Sucks but the legal coverage I have doesn't fully cover in this particular case because it would be considered "small claims" - I can still speak with one of their general attorneys over the phone though...
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 10:02:51 AM by jeromedawg »

SimpleCycle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2017, 10:01:00 AM »
Also, this might not be the optimal time to mention this, but a $500 deductible on a homeowner's policy is ridiculously low.  You should be able to raise that substantially, save on premiums, and pay for any claims/deductibles out of savings.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/06/02/insurance-a-tax-on-people-who-are-bad-at-math/
Thanks... so how much is "too much" to be paying for homeowners insurance per year, for example? Our premium has hovered around $180 for the past few years but was up at around $200 before that. I've been in this place since 2007 (long before I got into MMM) so never thought much about reviewing insurance policies, etc...


$180 annually or monthly?  Insurance prices are hard to compare across situations, because so so much depends on what you are covering, where you live, etc.  What I'd do is price out a $500 deductible, a $1000 deductible, and a $2500 deductible and determine how the premium savings compares with what you'd have to pay if you made a claim.  You can figure out how long you'd have to go claim free before it paid for itself.  I haven't had a renters or homeowners claim in the 15 years I've had insurance, so it's a wager I'm willing to take.  The average homeowner makes a claim every 9-10 years (according to The Internet) so you can use that to make a rough calculation.

While you're at it, review your coverages to make sure they're appropriate.  We only have $30k in personal property coverage, because I think that's about what it would take to replace all our furniture and belongings.  The suggested default amount seemed way too high to me.  If you're feeling ambitious you can do a home inventory to figure out replacement cost for your stuff.

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2017, 10:39:04 AM »
Also, this might not be the optimal time to mention this, but a $500 deductible on a homeowner's policy is ridiculously low.  You should be able to raise that substantially, save on premiums, and pay for any claims/deductibles out of savings.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/06/02/insurance-a-tax-on-people-who-are-bad-at-math/
Thanks... so how much is "too much" to be paying for homeowners insurance per year, for example? Our premium has hovered around $180 for the past few years but was up at around $200 before that. I've been in this place since 2007 (long before I got into MMM) so never thought much about reviewing insurance policies, etc...


$180 annually or monthly?  Insurance prices are hard to compare across situations, because so so much depends on what you are covering, where you live, etc.  What I'd do is price out a $500 deductible, a $1000 deductible, and a $2500 deductible and determine how the premium savings compares with what you'd have to pay if you made a claim.  You can figure out how long you'd have to go claim free before it paid for itself.  I haven't had a renters or homeowners claim in the 15 years I've had insurance, so it's a wager I'm willing to take.  The average homeowner makes a claim every 9-10 years (according to The Internet) so you can use that to make a rough calculation.

While you're at it, review your coverages to make sure they're appropriate.  We only have $30k in personal property coverage, because I think that's about what it would take to replace all our furniture and belongings.  The suggested default amount seemed way too high to me.  If you're feeling ambitious you can do a home inventory to figure out replacement cost for your stuff.

Oops, updated my post after you replied. That's the annual premium we're paying

SimpleCycle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2017, 10:40:54 AM »
Oops, updated my post after you replied. That's the annual premium we're paying annually.

Oh, uh, that is crazy low.  You probably won't save much money updating your policy, although no harm in looking.  Carry on. :)

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2017, 10:48:33 AM »
Oops, updated my post after you replied. That's the annual premium we're paying annually.

Oh, uh, that is crazy low.  You probably won't save much money updating your policy, although no harm in looking.  Carry on. :)

lol, that's what i thought the first time we filed a claim for the other flooding... again, i think our overall coverage is lower, but we probably don't need it. if anything, i may get a PAF for any of our 'valuables'

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2017, 05:57:09 PM »
So now the HOA seems to be getting all involved - I think the new property manager is performing extra generous due diligence because she's fresh and wants to prove to the new boss she can do the job? She just asked for the report from the plumber who found the leak (presumably to prove that the leak came from upstairs). I told her that I don't have the report/invoice/documentation but I provided the name the plumbing company and the owner who came out to identify (and presumably fix) the leak. Obviously she could contact my upstairs neighbor directly as well so I'm not sure why she wouldn't.

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8963
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2017, 06:15:16 PM »
If she's trying to sell the property, see if you can put a lien on the property for the damages.   

If you can, she'll have difficulty selling without paying you first, or putting up a bond for the damage amount to get the lien off the property.

This is a ridiculous suggestion, and in incredible bad faith.  Also not legally possible without a judgement in most states.

Really?   Check to see if it is possible is a ridiculous suggestion?   I didn't say "Just do it, don't bother to check the law first."   I said check.  And since you, yourself, say it's not legally possible without a judgement in most states I'll take that as an admission on your part that it's possible in SOME states.  So, again, they should check.

Even if they have to get a small claims court judgment to get a lien on the property, if that $500 is worth it to them, then they should go for it.   There was a time in my life that $500 was 10 times more than we had available to spend on our wedding, it would have been a huge improvement in our finances.   Whether it's worth that bother or not is for the OP to decide, not us.

My next question:

How is that in incredibly bad faith?

The OP has repeatedly tried to discuss the matter with the other person and the other person is avoiding them.  The other person is acting in incredibly bad faith.   If the other person just came out and said, "Nope, not my problem, not my fault.  I won't pay," then I wouldn't say they were acting in bad faith.   I might disagree with them, but it would at least be an honest exchange of positions.

So, when the other person is clearly attempting to sell the property and may well move away without paying for the damages (and without leaving a forwarding address), how is securing the OP's interest in incredible bad faith?   Liens exist for a reason, and that reason is to force someone to pay what they ought to pay at some point in time.  That's a good thing.   

Just because a lien exists doesn't mean it has to be paid.  It can be disputed and discarded by a court.  But since the other person wants to sell the property, it's certainly one way to force them to pay up or talk it thru.

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2017, 06:40:06 PM »
If she's trying to sell the property, see if you can put a lien on the property for the damages.   

If you can, she'll have difficulty selling without paying you first, or putting up a bond for the damage amount to get the lien off the property.

This is a ridiculous suggestion, and in incredible bad faith.  Also not legally possible without a judgement in most states.

Really?   Check to see if it is possible is a ridiculous suggestion?   I didn't say "Just do it, don't bother to check the law first."   I said check.  And since you, yourself, say it's not legally possible without a judgement in most states I'll take that as an admission on your part that it's possible in SOME states.  So, again, they should check.

Even if they have to get a small claims court judgment to get a lien on the property, if that $500 is worth it to them, then they should go for it.   There was a time in my life that $500 was 10 times more than we had available to spend on our wedding, it would have been a huge improvement in our finances.   Whether it's worth that bother or not is for the OP to decide, not us.

My next question:

How is that in incredibly bad faith?

The OP has repeatedly tried to discuss the matter with the other person and the other person is avoiding them.  The other person is acting in incredibly bad faith.   If the other person just came out and said, "Nope, not my problem, not my fault.  I won't pay," then I wouldn't say they were acting in bad faith.   I might disagree with them, but it would at least be an honest exchange of positions.

So, when the other person is clearly attempting to sell the property and may well move away without paying for the damages (and without leaving a forwarding address), how is securing the OP's interest in incredible bad faith?   Liens exist for a reason, and that reason is to force someone to pay what they ought to pay at some point in time.  That's a good thing.   

Just because a lien exists doesn't mean it has to be paid.  It can be disputed and discarded by a court.  But since the other person wants to sell the property, it's certainly one way to force them to pay up or talk it thru.

Thanks for the explanation and your understanding. I think the points you made about the $500 being worth it or not is salient here. Most people are telling me it's not worth it and to drop it completely for $500 (well, we can exclude those who are discouraging the pursuing the expensive legal route which would most certainly offset and exceed the cost of reclaiming the deductible). I realize there's a point of diminishing returns but that may vary from situation to situation. It's not like I'm planning to drive to the courthouse and meet with a lawyer every day and spend hours reading up on the law etc. I do, however, want to get a better grasp on rules/regulations/etc for my own sake. I look at this as a learning experience whatever comes of it. Yea the $500 would be *really* great to get back but my wife and I have accepted that we may not see it - we're still going to pursue any reasonable means by which we could try to get it though because at least we'll have known we tried, and to us that's what matters most.

In any case, I'm not sure we'd go as far as small claims or pursuing a lien in this case. I could hire an attorney with help with small claims but that would likely exceed the cost of reclaiming $500. And going through the small claims process seems like it may take more effort than I want to put in overall. But it's still good to know generally how things like this can work (especially for future instances). For the time being, I've been able to retain the advice of an attorney via phone, and if I need a letter drafted by the said attorney I can request it and it will be covered. Retaining an attorney 'in-person' is going to cost too much though.

So I didn't mention this yet but my neighbor finally wised up (probably because I emailed the realtor over the wknd and he nudged her) and reached out to me later today with the name of her insurance company and that I should be expecting a call from them. Of course, the other thing we're waiting for is the estimate of repairs... in the meantime, it sucks having exposed nails from the removed baseboards and rearranged furniture while dealing with two young kids and making sure they don't get close to the exposed areas and especially the nails.

Either way, I appreciate the information/feedback/opinions you've *all* provided me so thank you all :) In many ways it helps being able to "document" and write/type the experience out and receive feedback as I'm going along.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 06:48:02 PM by jeromedawg »

sequoia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 614
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2017, 08:01:25 PM »
Either way, I appreciate the information/feedback/opinions you've *all* provided me so thank you all :) In many ways it helps being able to "document" and write/type the experience out and receive feedback as I'm going along.

You probably already doing this, but do document everything. I mean everything. Date, time, who you speak to, meeting or over the phone (get the phone no and extension # if it is over the phone), text messages, emails, etc and what you talk about.

LeRainDrop

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1834
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2017, 08:05:15 PM »
So I didn't mention this yet but my neighbor finally wised up (probably because I emailed the realtor over the wknd and he nudged her) and reached out to me later today with the name of her insurance company and that I should be expecting a call from them. Of course, the other thing we're waiting for is the estimate of repairs... in the meantime, it sucks having exposed nails from the removed baseboards and rearranged furniture while dealing with two young kids and making sure they don't get close to the exposed areas and especially the nails.

Glad to hear she's finally given you her insurance information!  I really feel for you.  I had my condo flood several years back with lots of damage to my hardwood floors, baseboards, and drywall.  It was such a pain in the butt to deal with the mayhem and repairs, all while keeping my two cats away from the mess and hazards.  Fortunately now it's all behind me and having paid the stinking deductible no longer matters.  Like you, I had the low cost coverage and a $500 deductible, so it did feel like a relief for selecting that amount at the time I actually suffered the damage!  Wishing you a smooth repair process.

SimpleCycle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2017, 10:54:27 PM »
If she's trying to sell the property, see if you can put a lien on the property for the damages.   

If you can, she'll have difficulty selling without paying you first, or putting up a bond for the damage amount to get the lien off the property.

This is a ridiculous suggestion, and in incredible bad faith.  Also not legally possible without a judgement in most states.

Really?   Check to see if it is possible is a ridiculous suggestion?   I didn't say "Just do it, don't bother to check the law first."   I said check.  And since you, yourself, say it's not legally possible without a judgement in most states I'll take that as an admission on your part that it's possible in SOME states.  So, again, they should check.

Even if they have to get a small claims court judgment to get a lien on the property, if that $500 is worth it to them, then they should go for it.   There was a time in my life that $500 was 10 times more than we had available to spend on our wedding, it would have been a huge improvement in our finances.   Whether it's worth that bother or not is for the OP to decide, not us.

My next question:

How is that in incredibly bad faith?

The OP has repeatedly tried to discuss the matter with the other person and the other person is avoiding them.  The other person is acting in incredibly bad faith.   If the other person just came out and said, "Nope, not my problem, not my fault.  I won't pay," then I wouldn't say they were acting in bad faith.   I might disagree with them, but it would at least be an honest exchange of positions.

So, when the other person is clearly attempting to sell the property and may well move away without paying for the damages (and without leaving a forwarding address), how is securing the OP's interest in incredible bad faith?   Liens exist for a reason, and that reason is to force someone to pay what they ought to pay at some point in time.  That's a good thing.   

Just because a lien exists doesn't mean it has to be paid.  It can be disputed and discarded by a court.  But since the other person wants to sell the property, it's certainly one way to force them to pay up or talk it thru.

It's been a week and a half.  Even if it is a legal option (which it's not in any state I am aware of, but I'm not going to exclude the possibility), there are numerous other options available.  The person does not cease to exist if they sell the condo, they can still be sued in small claims court, which is the proper venue for this type of dispute.  And there is the subrogation process, which is literally designed to sort out this type of issue.

So we can argue semantics on bad faith or not, but your suggestion is a huge overreaction, and also not particularly helpful.  You are suggesting that someone try to block the sale of a property over $500 to which he may or may not be legally entitled.  Of course the amount of money matters, at the very least from a karmic perspective, but also from a very real "is this worth it" perspective.

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2017, 01:20:58 PM »
Quick update on this...

So it looks like my insurance company went into subrogation last week and the subrogation agent told me she had to send a letter of notice to my neighbor last week to get more information (she had no claim information or info on the insurance company). Funny because I received a call from her insurance claims adjuster in that same time frame. I asked about the deductible and she was saying if there's no negligence, you may not get it back, which corresponds with what many of you have already said.

She told me that when she first contacted my neighbor, my neighbor told her she wasn't aware of any water damage, leaking or plumbing issues that affected my unit... either she has short-term memory loss or she was trying to weasel out of it. So the  subrogation agent pressed her (pretty much called her bluff) and said that my account was that we all went upstairs to her unit to find a leaking supply line upon pulling the fridge back, confirmed by the plumbing company that was there. Then my neighbor changed her tune and told her she needed to call her back after checking with insurance, etc. LOL! A couple hours later the agent got a call back and my neighbor seemed to have remembered *everything*! "oh yeah now I recall - there was a leak behind the refrigerator" - funny how that works out sometimes...

Anyway, apparently it looks like this whole thing is a potential risk to escrow. I have *not* said or done anything to try to jeopardize the situation btw. I've only reported this to my insurance and HOA at this point. Funny thing is, the potential buyer was apparently in the neighborhood the day the plumber or remediation company was out here because he stopped by, knocked on my door and asked me what was going on. I told him about the leak from upstairs that caused damage in our unit. I think he may have taken that back to his escrow company and had them look into it, because my agent said the new buyer's escrow company was asking her who was liable for the damage and if they had paid out for it...!

Interestingly, I just received a call and VM from my neighbor in the past hour which sounded a little desperate - she was asking if I had any reports or updates so she could give that information to the escrow company because escrow is supposed to close on Sunday... my agent told me not to give her much, if any, information but other than to refer her to her insurance company for that info. From the sounds of it though, it doesn't seem like her insurance company has taken any action (or they're late... but this could be because she filed the claim all late too). My agent was saying that her insurance company should have sent someone out to inspect damage to both her unit and mine, which I don't think has happened... it definitely hasn't happened for me at least. Either way, it sounds like the ball is in their court (and if there's any pressure to get things done, it's on them because she A) probably lied and B) procrastinated with filing a claim).

I did get the check for the estimate from my claims adjuster, and it's pretty generous, which makes me feel better if we end up not getting the deductible back.  I still can't get over the fact that she "forgot" about what happened when talking to the subrogation agent...smh
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 01:27:08 PM by jeromedawg »

sequoia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 614
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2017, 03:31:29 PM »
I did get the check for the estimate from my claims adjuster, and it's pretty generous, which makes me feel better if we end up not getting the deductible back.  I still can't get over the fact that she "forgot" about what happened when talking to the subrogation agent...smh

Thanks for the update. Wow... glad I am not the potential buyer..

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2017, 04:40:52 PM »
I did get the check for the estimate from my claims adjuster, and it's pretty generous, which makes me feel better if we end up not getting the deductible back.  I still can't get over the fact that she "forgot" about what happened when talking to the subrogation agent...smh

Thanks for the update. Wow... glad I am not the potential buyer..

Current owner/neighbor is a bit scatterbrained so I wouldn't count short term memory loss out. However, my wife is more suspicious than I am in general and is calling it all a show. The neighbor whined to me a few days after this all transpired about how the potential buyers have all these things on their "checklist" that she needs to take care of before closing and said it was all this "stupid stuff" - I can't imagine what there is that needs to be taken care of... I'm wondering if it was the awful contractor she had come in to remodel their place and if he did a crappy/shoddy job with various things around their unit that the inspector caught. Like I said, I've met the potential buyers (well, the husband at least) and he seems like a nice guy and I appreciated that he took the initiative to reach out - I think he'd be a great neighbor. I hope escrow does close so that we don't have to keep dealing with our current neighbor. It'll hopefully just make living in a downstairs condo unit that much more bearable until we can no longer take it and move (and perhaps to another state that's not CA...)
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 04:49:54 PM by jeromedawg »

sokoloff

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1191
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2017, 05:50:21 PM »
A couple hours later the agent got a call back and my neighbor seemed to have remembered *everything*! "oh yeah now I recall - there was a leak behind the refrigerator" - funny how that works out sometimes...
Yes, a truly amazing coincidence...

Anyway, apparently it looks like this whole thing is a potential risk to escrow.

Interestingly, I just received a call and VM from my neighbor in the past hour which sounded a little desperate - she was asking if I had any reports or updates so she could give that information to the escrow company because escrow is supposed to close on Sunday... my agent told me not to give her much, if any, information but other than to refer her to her insurance company for that info.
Exactly right. Neighbor is conveniently forgetful? OK, I'm suddenly less cooperative, but I'm sure your insurance company now has all the information about the leak and water damage claim... If the new buyer, escrow company, appraiser, underwriter or home inspector have any questions about the water leak that originated in your unit and caused damage in my unit, give them my information; I'm more than willing to fill them in on all of the pertinent details...

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2017, 06:36:04 PM »
A couple hours later the agent got a call back and my neighbor seemed to have remembered *everything*! "oh yeah now I recall - there was a leak behind the refrigerator" - funny how that works out sometimes...
Yes, a truly amazing coincidence...

Anyway, apparently it looks like this whole thing is a potential risk to escrow.

Interestingly, I just received a call and VM from my neighbor in the past hour which sounded a little desperate - she was asking if I had any reports or updates so she could give that information to the escrow company because escrow is supposed to close on Sunday... my agent told me not to give her much, if any, information but other than to refer her to her insurance company for that info.
Exactly right. Neighbor is conveniently forgetful? OK, I'm suddenly less cooperative, but I'm sure your insurance company now has all the information about the leak and water damage claim... If the new buyer, escrow company, appraiser, underwriter or home inspector have any questions about the water leak that originated in your unit and caused damage in my unit, give them my information; I'm more than willing to fill them in on all of the pertinent details...


Yeah, it's probably a safe bet to call "BS" on most of the moves she's been making.

I texted her back saying I don't have the information she's looking for and that my insurance company suggested that she contact her insurance for the information she needs. However, if her insurance company isn't going to take any action to check on damage, etc. that's their issue. Maybe they're hoping that I'll repair everything first, so that when they have someone come out to investigate they can say "we don't see any damage. FALSE CLAIM!" or "oh this isn't that bad... we're not going to pay out as much" - obviously that seems really totally irresponsible and would probably get them into even hotter water, but whatever... do insurance companies even try to pull crap like that?

Interesting cause my wife said the neighbor's realtor was just over at their place while I had a contractor here to get an estimate on the repairs. Not sure if they were trying to check up (or spy) on what was going on here but I don't care... I'm in the process of collecting bids and may just go with a handyman if he's significantly cheaper. I would have gone with this current contractor had they been more responsive but we apparently got in touch with them at the wrong time: the original guy who came out to do the estimate was let go in the past couple weeks, which explains the delay in why they were taking so long to get back to me on things. Pretty irritating that we've been in this state for 2-3 weeks now. 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 06:37:36 PM by jeromedawg »

mbl

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 331
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2017, 09:10:24 AM »
If she's trying to sell the property, see if you can put a lien on the property for the damages.   

If you can, she'll have difficulty selling without paying you first, or putting up a bond for the damage amount to get the lien off the property.

That would require going to small claims court and getting a judgement in his favor.

jeromedawg

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5174
  • Age: 2019
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2017, 01:57:13 AM »
Quick update/FYI but I got the deductible back - I figure the subrogation agent must have gone hard after my neighbor especially for attempting to lie about the incident and deny that anything happened. I wonder if I would have seen anything come back otherwise lol.

LeRainDrop

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1834
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #45 on: November 07, 2017, 07:14:57 PM »
That's great! J-dawg for the win!

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8963
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #46 on: November 07, 2017, 09:00:18 PM »
If she's trying to sell the property, see if you can put a lien on the property for the damages.   

If you can, she'll have difficulty selling without paying you first, or putting up a bond for the damage amount to get the lien off the property.

This is a ridiculous suggestion, and in incredible bad faith.  Also not legally possible without a judgement in most states.

Really?   Check to see if it is possible is a ridiculous suggestion?   I didn't say "Just do it, don't bother to check the law first."   I said check.  And since you, yourself, say it's not legally possible without a judgement in most states I'll take that as an admission on your part that it's possible in SOME states.  So, again, they should check.

Even if they have to get a small claims court judgment to get a lien on the property, if that $500 is worth it to them, then they should go for it.   There was a time in my life that $500 was 10 times more than we had available to spend on our wedding, it would have been a huge improvement in our finances.   Whether it's worth that bother or not is for the OP to decide, not us.

My next question:

How is that in incredibly bad faith?

The OP has repeatedly tried to discuss the matter with the other person and the other person is avoiding them.  The other person is acting in incredibly bad faith.   If the other person just came out and said, "Nope, not my problem, not my fault.  I won't pay," then I wouldn't say they were acting in bad faith.   I might disagree with them, but it would at least be an honest exchange of positions.

So, when the other person is clearly attempting to sell the property and may well move away without paying for the damages (and without leaving a forwarding address), how is securing the OP's interest in incredible bad faith?   Liens exist for a reason, and that reason is to force someone to pay what they ought to pay at some point in time.  That's a good thing.   

Just because a lien exists doesn't mean it has to be paid.  It can be disputed and discarded by a court.  But since the other person wants to sell the property, it's certainly one way to force them to pay up or talk it thru.

It's been a week and a half.  Even if it is a legal option (which it's not in any state I am aware of, but I'm not going to exclude the possibility), there are numerous other options available.  The person does not cease to exist if they sell the condo, they can still be sued in small claims court, which is the proper venue for this type of dispute.  And there is the subrogation process, which is literally designed to sort out this type of issue.

Correct.  They will still exist "somewhere".   Where, exactly, would that be?   How will you serve court papers to someone if you can't find them to do so?   Remember, at the point in time I made this suggestion, the other person had refused (by avoidance) to supply her insurance information, and she was actively attempting to move somewhere else.

If it was hard to get her to supply necessary information and to do the right thing when she lives one floor upstairs, how on earth would it be easier to get her to do so after she moves ??where??.  Another state?  Another country?   How will you find them without spending even more time and money to do so?

So we can argue semantics on bad faith or not, but your suggestion is a huge overreaction, and also not particularly helpful.  You are suggesting that someone try to block the sale of a property over $500 to which he may or may not be legally entitled.  Of course the amount of money matters, at the very least from a karmic perspective, but also from a very real "is this worth it" perspective.

The upstairs neighbor was clearly exhibiting bad faith, and further info from the original poster confirmed that.   It's up to the OP to decide whether they believe the upstairs neighbor is legally liable for damages and thus pursue redress of those damages.   They appear convinced of the fault on the part of their neighbor and I have no evidence to the contrary, so I accept it as a given parameter for the advice I gave.

If it's quick and affordable in one's jurisdiction to get a lien on the property for the damages, then the person won't be able to sell without clearing the lien.   If the other party is acting in bad faith, that *might* be an easy way to force them to pony up with the cash.  Based on the reaction from the escrow company, it appears that the existence of a possibility of such a lien may be enough to force it to be cleared up fairly.

I do know that if a workman does work for the seller, the seller buys the property, and the workman *then* places a lien against the property, the buyer (or their title insurance company) is on the hook for the lien.  The buyer would then have to go to court to get their money back from the seller.  Much better to get the money up front before an irresponsible seller can spend it elsewhere!

It's not my place, nor is it your place, to decide for the OP how much money is too little to bother with.

And sometimes, it's not about the money.  It's about justice.  It would be better for all the people in that upstairs neighbor's lifetime to come if they learn to act responsibly and fairly from the get go.   Finding out that being fair and reasonable would have made their life easier and the problem cost less to them would be a good lesson for them to learn - for everyone's sake.   That's true karma at work.

I suspect you'll disagree and that's just fine.

sequoia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 614
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #47 on: November 07, 2017, 09:29:33 PM »
Quick update/FYI but I got the deductible back - I figure the subrogation agent must have gone hard after my neighbor especially for attempting to lie about the incident and deny that anything happened. I wonder if I would have seen anything come back otherwise lol.

That is great news! Happy for ya

SimpleCycle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2017, 09:30:29 PM »
I suspect you'll disagree and that's just fine.

I don’t need to disagree.  As I suggested would likely be the case, this was sorted out in subrogation within a few weeks.

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 22387
  • Age: 66
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Seeking remittance of deductible for water damage caused by neighbor?
« Reply #49 on: November 07, 2017, 09:52:25 PM »
Congratulations and thanks for the update!