Author Topic: She needs to make at least $70K  (Read 16087 times)

JLee

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Re: She needs to make at least $70K
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2015, 08:23:50 PM »
I had a friend that would only date men that earned at least 100k a year.  This was 1998 at the time.  She explained to me that her dad passed away when she was young (9).  Her mom and her had always struggled financially.  She felt like it would prevent her from struggling should something happen later down the road.  She was firm on requirement.  Of course, she didn't really consider he could earn 100k a year and send it all and then some.  She 31 at the time.  She make over 100k.  At the time I only made 28k. 100k seemed like a fortune.
$100k in '98 is $145k in today's dollars. It's certainly not small!

bridget

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Re: She needs to make at least $70K
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2015, 10:23:26 AM »
I would like to hear more ways to describe our views on a profile. Some of them are decent but would send most people running for the hills without thinking about the true picture...but I guess some of us want that to happen to weed out the spenders lol.

Since I'm already FIRE'd it would be nice to meet someone who makes a living wage and somewhat frugal. She can save all her money so she can join me after she's FI. I already have enough for a future SO but my requirement is that she needs to have skin in the game. One would think that this would be easy to find but most of the people I meet don't have a clue when it comes to finances or they think I'm broke...lol.

Well, a quick way to turn off many independent women is to use words like "she can do X" (as in, you are deigning to allow her to do that) or "my requirement is that she needs to Y." Not just on your dating profile; excise those entirely from your vocabulary and to the extent possible, your brain. Women you might meet are real people with their own money, dreams, values, and retirement plans. They do not want to be squashed into a pre-designed plan.

The best way to find who you are looking for is to describe YOURSELF and your values, and then say that you are looking for someone who shares those values. Not "fits," not "accepts," not "will adopt," but SHARES. Because you're looking for someone to share your life with, not boss around. You are not ordering a person to your specifications. You are explaining what your life and personality is like, which lets people self-select whether they are interested and want to hear more, or whether that isn't a good fit for them and they will move on.

I realize that I am nit-picking your language use a bit here, which may not be at all an accurate picture of what you intended to convey. But you will convey that meaning to strangers on the internet, who will click right past your profile, or women on first dates, who will politely turn you down for a second one.   

tj

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Re: She needs to make at least $70K
« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2015, 03:53:09 PM »
There seems to be a lot of nitpicking on this forum over verbiage. I feel like the spirit of his comment was pretty obvious to me. He was not suggesting that he wants to find a woman to "give permission" to join him on his journey, he's just looking for a match who is on the same path and shares his goals. Honestly, any woman who would blast me over using natural verbiage is not the right match for me, and that's completely okay. To me, that is  finding flaws over minor details, and if you do it over one thing, you might do it over other minor things too.  We all have our different opinion over what is 'minor'.

I feel like if one is too inflexible regarding your potential match's finances (or many non-financial traits), you risk that your eventual early retirement might be a solo one. As long as you're okay with that, then that's fine, remain as picky as possible. If not, I'd suggest being more open-minded. If I was in the financial spot where it was irrelevant how much my match made/already had, then I would maybe focus on the other traits I'm looking for, like kindness, sense of humor, shared hobbies.

I don't think it's wise to automatically disqualify someone over numbers. If my 'perfect match' has a bunch of student loan debt because she incurred it for a high paying career, that's no big deal. Indeed, one of the women I have dated in the past was in medical school. She not only had student loans ,but also credit card debt. I don't know the specific numbers, but I know she works in her down time for extra cash to support her struggling parents. I know that she had barely enough free time to see each other more than every now and then.  I could never fault this woman over her financial decisions, indeed she is one of the kindest most down-to-earth people you will ever meet. She would no doubt out-earn me and also be debt-free eventually, but for me to wait until she has her financial shit together before showing interest in her, or to rule her out because of her predicament would seem a bit shallow.

Or maybe on the flip side, I could have a match who is also debt free like me, but is content making a smaller income doing something she loves that is far less time intensive than a traditional career, which means she might have more time for shared hobbies etc. I'd have to see some pretty bad numbers and/or behavioral habits to disqualify someone over numbers alone. The reality is that we usually disqualify people well before we ever see their numbers, so I'm not sure that it makes sense to blatantly state that we're looking for a specific number unless we're content to hold out for the unicorn and are happy alone.

TL;DR - Judging people over income or debt without knowing the context seems to be needlessly picky from my foxhole.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 04:07:51 PM by tj »

bridget

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Re: She needs to make at least $70K
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2015, 05:30:40 PM »
Sure, I acknowledged that it was nitpicking, but I also think that small word choices can contribute to an overall tone, and that can make a big difference in terms of online profile success. And, DollarBill specifically asked for input about what kind of language will work best - I wasn't just giving unsolicited advice. My overall point is that it's best not to describe who you want to date, because to women on the other side, it feels a little icky, even if she actually fits the description. It's better to describe yourself, and then say you're interested in getting to know people who share your values. And, it's better to do that in broad, general terms, because like you said, it's important to be flexible and compromising on the details. He who wants to control every aspect of his life will end up living it alone.

tj

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Re: She needs to make at least $70K
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2015, 05:40:13 PM »
Sure, I acknowledged that it was nitpicking, but I also think that small word choices can contribute to an overall tone, and that can make a big difference in terms of online profile success. And, DollarBill specifically asked for input about what kind of language will work best - I wasn't just giving unsolicited advice. My overall point is that it's best not to describe who you want to date, because to women on the other side, it feels a little icky, even if she actually fits the description. It's better to describe yourself, and then say you're interested in getting to know people who share your values. And, it's better to do that in broad, general terms, because like you said, it's important to be flexible and compromising on the details. He who wants to control every aspect of his life will end up living it alone.

Fair enough. In DollarBills case, I would question why he would have an income requirement for a match when he also states that he's already FIRE and can support a significant other. In that case, i would perhaps be careful and protective of who I let see my wealth, but if anything, I would feel even more confident that the earning potential of my match is irrelevant, barring incompatible consumer spending habits.

DollarBill

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Re: She needs to make at least $70K
« Reply #55 on: December 13, 2015, 02:58:00 PM »
I would like to hear more ways to describe our views on a profile. Some of them are decent but would send most people running for the hills without thinking about the true picture...but I guess some of us want that to happen to weed out the spenders lol.

Since I'm already FIRE'd it would be nice to meet someone who makes a living wage and somewhat frugal. She can save all her money so she can join me after she's FI. I already have enough for a future SO but my requirement is that she needs to have skin in the game. One would think that this would be easy to find but most of the people I meet don't have a clue when it comes to finances or they think I'm broke...lol.

Well, a quick way to turn off many independent women is to use words like "she can do X" (as in, you are deigning to allow her to do that) or "my requirement is that she needs to Y." Not just on your dating profile; excise those entirely from your vocabulary and to the extent possible, your brain. Women you might meet are real people with their own money, dreams, values, and retirement plans. They do not want to be squashed into a pre-designed plan.

The best way to find who you are looking for is to describe YOURSELF and your values, and then say that you are looking for someone who shares those values. Not "fits," not "accepts," not "will adopt," but SHARES. Because you're looking for someone to share your life with, not boss around. You are not ordering a person to your specifications. You are explaining what your life and personality is like, which lets people self-select whether they are interested and want to hear more, or whether that isn't a good fit for them and they will move on.

I realize that I am nit-picking your language use a bit here, which may not be at all an accurate picture of what you intended to convey. But you will convey that meaning to strangers on the internet, who will click right past your profile, or women on first dates, who will politely turn you down for a second one.
lol...I'm trying to picture how this conversation would go:
Me: Well sweetie, I'm already FIRE'd so you can just bank all your money.
Her: "SWEETIE"! That's condescending and your not the boss of me and you can't tell me what to do with my money.
 
Only an "Independent Woman" would be that stubborn and find it appalling. God forbid that she keeps her own money!

"BUT" Bridget I understand where your coming from and I'm just poking fun. None of this is something I would post on a profile. I don't advertise my wealth in real life or on-line except a little on here. Heck the only person that knows in my Family is my Mom, the rest are mad spenders. I wouldn't mind moving closer to them but don't want to star in a show on the ID channel.

Quote
And, DollarBill specifically asked for input about what kind of language will work best - I wasn't just giving unsolicited advice. My overall point is that it's best not to describe who you want to date, because to women on the other side, it feels a little icky, even if she actually fits the description. It's better to describe yourself, and then say you're interested in getting to know people who share your values. And, it's better to do that in broad, general terms, because like you said, it's important to be flexible and compromising on the details. He who wants to control every aspect of his life will end up living it alone.

I would like to hear about ways people describe themselves as frugal and not make it sound scary but maybe that would highjack the thread and I should start a different one. I find it hard to describe myself in a profile because I don't have a job, don't want to advertise that I'm financially free, I'm frugal, no kids and that I can move freely...each one can be a perk or a negative mark. I'm sure I put to much thought into this.
 
Quote
He was not suggesting that he wants to find a woman to "give permission" to join him on his journey, he's just looking for a match who is on the same path and shares his goals. Honestly, any woman who would blast me over using natural verbiage is not the right match for me, and that's completely okay. To me, that is  finding flaws over minor details, and if you do it over one thing, you might do it over other minor things too.  We all have our different opinion over what is 'minor'.
Yes this is correct!

Quote
In DollarBills case, I would question why he would have an income requirement for a match when he also states that he's already FIRE and can support a significant other. In that case, i would perhaps be careful and protective of who I let see my wealth, but if anything, I would feel even more confident that the earning potential of my match is irrelevant, barring incompatible consumer spending habits.
I don't really have a requirement for income as long as they can live below their means. I think I would be gravitate more toward a career type woman because maybe in my mind it demonstrates that she can navigate life better but like I said it's not a requirement. I even dated a woman for a couple of weeks that didn't even have a job, she just got out of a divorce and was going to school. Of course she would grill me about my situation and how I could afford to live off a small Military pension. I would just say that I live below my means and never mentioned anything about the rest of my situation. She called it off but I guess I'll never really know why.

tj

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Re: She needs to make at least $70K
« Reply #56 on: December 13, 2015, 03:13:17 PM »
Quote
I don't really have a requirement for income as long as they can live below their means. I think I would be gravitate more toward a career type woman because maybe in my mind it demonstrates that she can navigate life better but like I said it's not a requirement. I even dated a woman for a couple of weeks that didn't even have a job, she just got out of a divorce and was going to school. Of course she would grill me about my situation and how I could afford to live off a small Military pension. I would just say that I live below my means and never mentioned anything about the rest of my situation. She called it off but I guess I'll never really know why.


See the bolded and think about what you just said. Do you think that FIRE women would feel exactly the same way for the exact same reasons?  If not, why not? These aren't questions that you have to necessarily answer, just my reaction to your comment and maybe something to consider.

It's incredibly difficult because most of the time $$$ isn't going to come up until much later and to answer your question about how to communicate that on a profile in a way that doesn't sound off-putting - I couldn't tell you. We are a very small minority of the population. When I was overt about my frugality, I learned that there is a wide range of frugality, and the odds of finding your subset style of frugal within the rare set of frugal are low. My suggestion is to focus on other traits and watch out for obvious financial deal-breakers.

KMMK

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Re: She needs to make at least $70K
« Reply #57 on: December 13, 2015, 03:25:07 PM »
DollarBill, I wish I had saved my online dating profile from this past summer, as I was in a similar position to you, except only half FI, not fully. I wasn't working at all, was/am frugal, with minimal possessions, and very interested in mobility. I definitely did mention frugal and mobile in my profile. I wanted my profile to only interest the right type of person without giving everything away. I probably said something about doing random things with my time, not interested in typical consumer culture, and mentioned my interest in living in RVs/vans and/or tiny homes, probably early retirement as well. I definitely also mentioned minimalism.

However, I deleted my profile after I met my perfect guy, so I don't remember exactly what I said in it any more.

But anyhow, I disclosed these basic and less-common character traits in my profile, and I met a man who was looking for a 30-something woman with no kids and zero desire for kids, as his starting point. We ended up having tons of other stuff in common, and really compatible values, and he was completely fine with the whole not-working, frugal, random life thing. My lack of job and possessions allowed me to easily move to his location. Because I wasn't FI, or working, I made sure he knew that I wasn't a gold-digger, as he's fairly well paid. I didn't disclose my entire financial picture until we were already living together so there was no reason to think he was after my money when he invited me to move in with him.

Anyhow, the online dating thing worked for us and we're very happy together. I say to be as honest in your profile as you feel comfortable with, and the right person will come along eventually.

DollarBill

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Re: She needs to make at least $70K
« Reply #58 on: December 13, 2015, 08:37:38 PM »
Quote
I don't really have a requirement for income as long as they can live below their means. I think I would be gravitate more toward a career type woman because maybe in my mind it demonstrates that she can navigate life better but like I said it's not a requirement. I even dated a woman for a couple of weeks that didn't even have a job, she just got out of a divorce and was going to school. Of course she would grill me about my situation and how I could afford to live off a small Military pension. I would just say that I live below my means and never mentioned anything about the rest of my situation. She called it off but I guess I'll never really know why.


See the bolded and think about what you just said. Do you think that FIRE women would feel exactly the same way for the exact same reasons?  If not, why not? These aren't questions that you have to necessarily answer, just my reaction to your comment and maybe something to consider.

It's incredibly difficult because most of the time $$$ isn't going to come up until much later and to answer your question about how to communicate that on a profile in a way that doesn't sound off-putting - I couldn't tell you. We are a very small minority of the population. When I was overt about my frugality, I learned that there is a wide range of frugality, and the odds of finding your subset style of frugal within the rare set of frugal are low. My suggestion is to focus on other traits and watch out for obvious financial deal-breakers.
I haven't met any FIRE'd Women in real life but I'm sure if they are single then their thoughts are close to the same. I think what I run into the most are career woman who will question my sanity for retiring so early or question my drive in life. I know I get underestimated by Family/Friends often and I'm fine about it most of the time but sometimes it does get to me. Sometimes I day dream about inflating my lifestyle just to see the different reactions but it fades quickly. 

I know it will be hard to find someone who has a good frugal balance but I'm hopeful. Before FIRE I was a lot more frugal but now I could be flexible with someone who is not but within reason.


DollarBill

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Re: She needs to make at least $70K
« Reply #59 on: December 13, 2015, 08:45:11 PM »
DollarBill, I wish I had saved my online dating profile from this past summer, as I was in a similar position to you, except only half FI, not fully. I wasn't working at all, was/am frugal, with minimal possessions, and very interested in mobility. I definitely did mention frugal and mobile in my profile. I wanted my profile to only interest the right type of person without giving everything away. I probably said something about doing random things with my time, not interested in typical consumer culture, and mentioned my interest in living in RVs/vans and/or tiny homes, probably early retirement as well. I definitely also mentioned minimalism.

However, I deleted my profile after I met my perfect guy, so I don't remember exactly what I said in it any more.

But anyhow, I disclosed these basic and less-common character traits in my profile, and I met a man who was looking for a 30-something woman with no kids and zero desire for kids, as his starting point. We ended up having tons of other stuff in common, and really compatible values, and he was completely fine with the whole not-working, frugal, random life thing. My lack of job and possessions allowed me to easily move to his location. Because I wasn't FI, or working, I made sure he knew that I wasn't a gold-digger, as he's fairly well paid. I didn't disclose my entire financial picture until we were already living together so there was no reason to think he was after my money when he invited me to move in with him.

Anyhow, the online dating thing worked for us and we're very happy together. I say to be as honest in your profile as you feel comfortable with, and the right person will come along eventually.
That's great that you met a like minded person...hope it works out for you!

Here's a section from what I wrote on my profile:
I believe that too many people today are short sighted and might prefer a smaller but immediate reward instead of a larger reward but a delayed one. Since early childhood I've been focused on escaping from the rat race and would like to find someone who can resist self-gratification to better their future.

Iíve got my act together. I strive to create balance in my life and find happiness in the smallest of experiences. I prefer a simple, happy and healthier lifestyle and do my best to constantly grow.