Author Topic: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?  (Read 2566 times)

pnw_guy

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Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« on: January 01, 2022, 08:01:46 PM »
This will only probably appeal to Seattle residents but here it goes...

Our family is looking to buy a single family home (at least 3 bed and 2 bath). Our household income is about $400K per year and one partner works from home, while the other has to commute to downtown Seattle (right by the Space Needle to be exact). While we have high incomes, we have only been making such good money for a short while. We're in our early 30's and have a $700K net worth.

The problem I'm having is that nothing fits out criteria. Ideally, we could live in a newer home because neither of us is really handy. Lots of the single family homes in Seattle proper don't appeal to us because they're so old and have lots of ongoing maintenance, aren't insulated as well, etc. Also, we would love to have a bit of space. That's why a single family home with a useable yard is very important to us. Finally, having a place that's really commutable to downtown is important too. We don't want the one partner that commutes to downtown to be spending something crazy like an hour + to get to work.

Initially we looked at places in Queen Anne, but single family homes there are CRAZY expensive! Plus, most of them are the older and quirkier homes that don't really fit our style. The commute is good though. On the other end of the spectrum, we really really like the Eastside (Bellevue, Issaquah, Sammamish) but homes are still pretty expensive, but more importantly, it doesn't seem like a reasonable commute is possible for the partner that goes into downtown Seattle for work.

So what I'd love to get input on is what other options should we entertain. We really really really don't like the idea of getting something like a new townhome, but is that the only way we can get something with less maintenance that's close to work? Should we just buck up and pay out the nose for a single family home on the Eastside and commute? We plan on living in the home at least 10 years, so maybe it will still be an ok investment despite the fact that the homes are so expensive? Or is there some creative option that we're not thinking of like buying land and building to save costs?

Any help from Seattleites that can feel our pain would be appreciated!

Poeirenta

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2022, 09:10:57 PM »
Check out Cedar Park (east of Lake City Way and north of Sand Point Way/125th). That's where we lived before moving to the sticks and it has larger lots than most areas south of 85th. But you won't have sidewalks, and most of the SFHs will be late 40's to '80s (based on what my immediate area had then). DH worked at the municipal tower and commuted by express bus; usually about 45 minutes door to door. @lhamo will have more up to date input than me tho, since we left in 2011.

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lhamo

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2022, 09:49:44 PM »
What’s your budget?

I’d actually try to find something walking distance to one of the light rail stations like Northgate or Roosevelt. If you want to save money Shoreline, Mountlake Terrace and lynnwood are all cheaper and with faster commutes than the east side and those stations will open in 2024.
Those are where I will likely be buying, though I might go south if prices warrant it.

I live in cedar park and like it but it isn’t great for a downtown commute. Good for UW, though (BG trail and bus #75)

Wait. Scratch that. Current light rail isn’t great for an office by the space needle (thats not downtown, thats uptown/lower qa). Is she willing/able to bus to work? I’d look at the direct bus routes.

Lake city/maple leaf might still work if she wants to drive. You can get on i5 from lake city way stay in the right lane and get off at Mercer. Even if traffic is bad you can usually keep moving. Better if you can go in a bit early or a bit late to miss the Mercer mess though.

What about this one? Not a bad price for the size/condition/location:

https://www.redfin.com/WA/Lake-Forest-Park/15829-33rd-Ave-NE-98155/home/88861


« Last Edit: January 01, 2022, 10:10:48 PM by lhamo »

pnw_guy

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2022, 10:07:29 PM »
What’s your budget?

I’d actually try to find something walking distance to one of the light rail stations like Northgate or Roosevelt. If you want to save money Shoreline, Mountlake Terrace and lynnwood are all cheaper and with faster commutes than the east side and those stations will open in 2024.
Those are where I will likely be buying, though I might go south if prices warrant it.

I live in cedar park and like it but it isn’t great for a downtown commute. Good for UW, though (BG trail and bus #75)

Wait. Scratch that. Current light rail isn’t great for an office by the space needle (thats not downtown, thats uptown/lower qa). Is she willing/able to bus to work? I’d look at the direct bus routes.

Lake city/maple leaf might still work if she wants to drive. You can get on i5 from lake city way stay in the right lane and get off at Mercer. Even if traffic is bad you can usually keep moving. Better if you can go in a bit early or a bit late to miss the Mercer mess though.

Funny you bring up the budget. Reaching FIRE is a big goal for us, bit at the same time, we'd love to have a nice home. Having both of those things in Seattle seems impossible. So while we've played around with different rules of thumb, like 4x our household income, spending something like 1.5 million sounds absurd. Maybe that's just the way it is though. So, this is all to say that we don't have a firm budget yet but have generally low costs and are frugal.

Definitely willing to take public transportation to work. That's actually preferred over driving since I5 is often a parking lot.

Again, if we could live anywhere and commuting and price were less of a concern, we'd build a new house on a bit of land on the Eastside somewhere like Issaquah. However, this new change in our lives came up because I started an awesome job which will have me working by the space needle. So that's going to be part of our lives for at least a while....
« Last Edit: January 01, 2022, 10:27:04 PM by pnw_guy »

lhamo

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2022, 10:21:41 PM »
I don’t think you need to spend that much. This is probably the worst time of the year for listings. PM me the office address. I’ll look at bus routes and try to find some good neighborhoods. I’m a bit of a real estate junky….

seattlecyclone

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2022, 12:06:49 AM »
Yeah so this is a classic example of competing priorities. You want a newer home, with land, and an easy commute to the Seattle Center, without spending millions. That's going to be a tough one. Commute-wise I think you're definitely on the right track having a bias toward transit. Traffic is already terrible for drivers in the general downtown area, and it won't get better as the city is gradually reprioritizing street lanes to more space-efficient uses (buses, bikes).

How locked in are you to the Seattle Center commute? Do you expect to be there for many years, or is it reasonably likely that you would eventually switch to something closer to the actual central business district? This matters a lot for commute planning! Light rail doesn't get you too close to the Seattle Center, but it's definitely the way to go for a lot of the other downtown office jobs. Maybe the Link->Monorail transfer at Westlake would make sense for you? Not sure, I've never tried it to see how quick and reliable it is. For a direct bus ride to the Seattle Center you'll want to look in Ballard, Phinney Ridge, Greenwood, Queen Anne, parts of Magnolia. The D Line from Ballard/North Beach and a couple of Magnolia routes go along the west side of the Seattle Center, while the 28/5/E Line go down Aurora and therefore get you pretty close on the east. The problem with all of these neighborhoods, given your criteria is that most of the single-family homes are from when these neighborhoods were originally developed a century ago. If you want newer construction in these neighborhoods that isn't a townhome you're probably starting at around the $1.5 million figure you find "absurd" (even though you could probably maintain a reasonably high savings rate even spending that much). You might have better luck looking for older homes that have been more extensively renovated in recent decades. New kitchen, modern wiring, these types of things. Those can be had for less.

One perhaps creative idea would be to buy an existing home with a big back yard, put a DADU in a corner of that yard, live in the DADU, and sell the existing house separately. People have been forming two-unit condo associations to enable separate ownership in this manner. If you're the one forming the condo association you could certainly write into the documents that the entire back yard is yours, and the other unit has control over the front. How big of a house and yard do you require, exactly? DADUs in Seattle are allowed to go up to 1,000 square feet, plus garage and basement space doesn't count toward this limit.

Alternatively if the Link to bus/monorail transfer might work for you, you might consider going to the Eastside near one of the light rail stations that is set to open in less than two years. The houses there tend to be newer and sit on larger lots than you'll find in Northwest Seattle. Trade-off being, of course, that the neighborhoods are less walkable.

lhamo

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2022, 11:53:10 AM »
OK, so looking at the actual location of her building (which is really more SLU than Uptown), here are the bus routes that have the closest stops:

62 -- This route starts at 74th and Sandpoint Way and then meanders its way across 65th to Greenlake, then down through east Fremont and along Dexter.  It would be SLOOOOOW.  Houses in  View Ridge are expensive (we almost bought a 4/2 very close to the terminal of that route for 1.15 mill in 2017, Zillow/Redfin say it is now worth 1.5mill+).  But as seattle cyclone says, you won't lose money in that neighborhood.  1.5 million houses there are practically teardowns these days.....  There are a fair number of 70s/80s ranch houses there so I would put 98105/98115 on your search list and see what comes up.  You might be surprised.

Bonus points for this area:  Right next to the BG trail/Magnuson Park so plenty of room to roam (and you can walk to the park and avoid your car getting smash and grabbed, which is a real problem lately).  Cascade Bicycle Club and the  Mountaineers both have their HQ in the park so easy to go to events/meet people with outdoor interests. 

The biggest drag is that there isn't a good grocery store in walking distance.  Met Market on 55th is bikable, though.  And theres a PCC and Safeway up the hill.

5/E-line are also a good bet, especially the E-line.  Lots of 70s/80s ranch style houses near the terminus of the E-line and in that whole area north of 105th/Northgate Way. 

The drag?  Commuting by bus on Aurora, which is extremely sketchy these days.  I would also want to be several blocks off Aurora, especially if you are looking further south.

The other options are the 16 to Broadview, the 28 to Whittier Heights, and the 3/4 crosstown routes from QA to Madrona/Judkins Park.  Unlikely that you can find much in those areas that would meet your price and condition requirements, though.

If she wouldnt mind changing mode of transit you could also look at any place that intersects with those routes, or plan on taking the street car to Terry and Thomas and walking a few blocks.  But I would try the direct bus route neighborhoods first.

Another good approach would be to ask colleagues where they live and see if anybody is open to carpooling.  That could really open up your options.  And if her employer happens to have its own bus fleet, that is worth looking at, too -- my brother did the reverse commute to Redmond from Broadview/Blue Ridge on a company bus and found it tolerable. I think he only had to go in 2-3x week pre-pandemic though.

If you decide to look in either View Ridge (98115) or north of greenlake to Shoreline (98133), let me know -- I've been watching those zip codes for years and have a pretty good sense of the market, as much as one can in these crazy inflationary days...

diffusate

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2022, 05:03:06 PM »
We moved to the Burien area a few years ago from central Seattle and love it! I can drive to the space needle area through the tunnel in 15-20 minutes. The lot sizes tend to be larger, and there's a wide variety of housing age and type, including some high-end properties closer to the sound. Definitely worth checking out.

honeybbq

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2022, 12:51:42 PM »
Seattleite here that commutes downtown-

Good access to Seattle center comes from either Magnolia or Queen Anne to the west/northwest.

If you want to ride the E bus (debatable) or commute via Aurora or bike lanes (not bad) to that area you'd be looking at Green Lake/Phinney Ridge and farther north Shoreline and Broadview areas. There are newer houses but pretty much none will have large yards or anything. That said, you can have a garden, a dog, and a play structure in your back yard. There are lots of open spaces for kids and parks if you don't mind shared spaces.

Crossing the bridges ESPECIALLY East/West is horrible. North/South slightly less so. But you will find East/West travel to be difficult. The easiest way IMO in and out of that area is via Aurora, rather than I-5 where you have to deal with Mercer and SLU traffic.

I'm really not seeing a lot of availability right now in terms of sales but come March/April, SFH will be all the rage.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2022, 02:26:57 PM by honeybbq »

WanderLucky

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2022, 02:23:01 PM »
I'd personally look in upper Fremont, Phinney, Wallingford, Greenwood and Greenlake (also Sunset Hill but that might not be as great for the commute downtown). Though some of this may depend on how you commute - bus or car?
You're right that you're going to mostly find houses that are older and expensive, but those locations are excellent and worth the "hassle" of an older home and price premium IMO. And as someone who lives in a 100+ year old house and who isn't handy at all, I haven't had much of an issue - most things were updated on my house before I bought it 12 years ago. I am now coming up on needing to do some maintenance, but it's stuff that I couldn't do myself anyway even if I was handy, so I'll be hiring that out. Also consider that a lot of the older houses were built really well and made to last, which you can't often say for a lot of the new developments in Seattle (I hear this from friends who build houses for a living).
Many years ago, I did the West/East commute and it was TERRIBLE and I hear it's gotten worse, both ways...

lhamo

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2022, 07:45:29 PM »
Here's an example of what you can get in Shoreline:

https://www.redfin.com/WA/Shoreline/17015-22nd-Ave-NE-98155/home/88777

Since inventory is so limited it will probably go for quite a bit over that asking, but still within your price range.

This one is older, but completely redone already and a short walk down to Lake City way for express bus connections (there is a staircase at 95th):

https://www.redfin.com/WA/Seattle/2330-NE-103rd-St-98125/home/107683
« Last Edit: January 06, 2022, 07:52:16 PM by lhamo »

Dicey

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2022, 08:26:37 PM »
Paging @ysette9.

ysette9

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2022, 09:32:19 PM »
Paging @ysette9.
Hi! :)

Between being new-ish to seattle and Covid keeping us at home I can’t provide much hell here because I don’t know the neighborhoods well enough.

We spent a year in north beacon hill which is conveniently located to the south end of downtown. We liked the area but there are about 46,375 townhomes and 3 houses. We wanted a SFH and so ended up in south beacon hill after THE ONLY HOUSE on the market in the school attendance zone on the market was at the corner of two busy streets and at the top of 20 stairs.

When buying our first house I ruled out old ones for all the same reasons as the OP, and learned to regret that. Looking back on it I wish we had bought an older house in a better location. Even though we weren’t (aren’t?) handy, a good home inspection, some remodel budget, and a good project planning sense can make up for not being able to do projects yourself.

Our current house is almost a hundred years old and needs So Much done. Thankfully we aren’t strapped for cash so it is a fun project even if a lot of it we are hiring out.

Good luck!

clarkfan1979

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2022, 10:39:46 PM »
This will only probably appeal to Seattle residents but here it goes...

Our family is looking to buy a single family home (at least 3 bed and 2 bath). Our household income is about $400K per year and one partner works from home, while the other has to commute to downtown Seattle (right by the Space Needle to be exact). While we have high incomes, we have only been making such good money for a short while. We're in our early 30's and have a $700K net worth.

The problem I'm having is that nothing fits out criteria. Ideally, we could live in a newer home because neither of us is really handy. Lots of the single family homes in Seattle proper don't appeal to us because they're so old and have lots of ongoing maintenance, aren't insulated as well, etc. Also, we would love to have a bit of space. That's why a single family home with a useable yard is very important to us. Finally, having a place that's really commutable to downtown is important too. We don't want the one partner that commutes to downtown to be spending something crazy like an hour + to get to work.

Initially we looked at places in Queen Anne, but single family homes there are CRAZY expensive! Plus, most of them are the older and quirkier homes that don't really fit our style. The commute is good though. On the other end of the spectrum, we really really like the Eastside (Bellevue, Issaquah, Sammamish) but homes are still pretty expensive, but more importantly, it doesn't seem like a reasonable commute is possible for the partner that goes into downtown Seattle for work.

So what I'd love to get input on is what other options should we entertain. We really really really don't like the idea of getting something like a new townhome, but is that the only way we can get something with less maintenance that's close to work? Should we just buck up and pay out the nose for a single family home on the Eastside and commute? We plan on living in the home at least 10 years, so maybe it will still be an ok investment despite the fact that the homes are so expensive? Or is there some creative option that we're not thinking of like buying land and building to save costs?

Any help from Seattleites that can feel our pain would be appreciated!

You can't change the location and you can't change the size of the lot. You can change the design/condition of the house. If you are going to compromise on the something, I would compromise on the design/condition of the house. It's possible to change it later.


merlin7676

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2022, 02:08:42 PM »
You really need to be looking in the south end. That's the only place that is still affordable if you're buying a house.

Like the previous person posted, Burien and White Center are growing. Lots of restaurants and bars and the commute to downtown Seattle is very easy going on 509, 99, 1st ave, 4th ave.  Plenty of ways to get there w/out getting on the interstate.

White Center and West Seattle have a lot of development; much of it is townhouses but you still get some yard space.

We moved from Cap Hill to White Center in 2019. Got a new townhouse with a decent sized back yard...enough to put in a deck and shed and several planter boxes with room left over. 

travel2020

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2022, 12:46:10 AM »
This will only probably appeal to Seattle residents but here it goes...

Our family is looking to buy a single family home (at least 3 bed and 2 bath). Our household income is about $400K per year and one partner works from home, while the other has to commute to downtown Seattle (right by the Space Needle to be exact). While we have high incomes, we have only been making such good money for a short while. We're in our early 30's and have a $700K net worth.

The problem I'm having is that nothing fits out criteria. Ideally, we could live in a newer home because neither of us is really handy. Lots of the single family homes in Seattle proper don't appeal to us because they're so old and have lots of ongoing maintenance, aren't insulated as well, etc. Also, we would love to have a bit of space. That's why a single family home with a useable yard is very important to us. Finally, having a place that's really commutable to downtown is important too. We don't want the one partner that commutes to downtown to be spending something crazy like an hour + to get to work.

Initially we looked at places in Queen Anne, but single family homes there are CRAZY expensive! Plus, most of them are the older and quirkier homes that don't really fit our style. The commute is good though. On the other end of the spectrum, we really really like the Eastside (Bellevue, Issaquah, Sammamish) but homes are still pretty expensive, but more importantly, it doesn't seem like a reasonable commute is possible for the partner that goes into downtown Seattle for work.

So what I'd love to get input on is what other options should we entertain. We really really really don't like the idea of getting something like a new townhome, but is that the only way we can get something with less maintenance that's close to work? Should we just buck up and pay out the nose for a single family home on the Eastside and commute? We plan on living in the home at least 10 years, so maybe it will still be an ok investment despite the fact that the homes are so expensive? Or is there some creative option that we're not thinking of like buying land and building to save costs?

Any help from Seattleites that can feel our pain would be appreciated!

The key questions you need to answer are:
- what’s your budget?
- how much commute time are you willing to put up with?

Others have chimed in on Seattle neighborhoods. Some other places to add to the mix.

Eastside: We’ve lived on the eastside for many years. Typical suburban living and not much difference from any other suburb in the US Im familiar with. Schools are good if you have/plan to have kids in school. I drive to Seattle on occasion for work and it’s ok but can be unpredictable due to downtown traffic and not something I would want to do 5 days/week. Bus schedules are OK from Issaquah, Redmond, Bellevue etc. for peak commute time but outside of that buses are not as frequent so you really need to plan ahead. On a positive note, light rail is coming to Bellevue / Redmond area next year and that may significantly change the commute situation. If you don’t mind the commute, you can also look at areas such as Snoqualmie Ridge. Maple Valley is another area that seems to be attracting people.

West Seattle: Know a couple of  people who were in a similar situation as yours a few years back (work in downtown Seattle area) and went with West Seattle vs eastside as it’s closer and prices are also (still) somewhat reasonable. It’s got a different vibe with a good mix of housing in different price ranges, old houses and new ones mixed together etc. and Alki beach / parks etc are nice.  The bridge closure has been a nightmare and makes it a pain to travel to/from there, but I hear the bridge will reopen mid 2022 so that may be worth exploring.

Further afield: As others have suggested, finding a house near light rail (e.g. Northgate or Lynnwood area or south towards the airport) would give you more options in terms of getting more house for your money. I’d also look at the Sounder transit map and see if areas like Sumner or newer developments in areas like Bonney Lake would be viable to use the Sounder for commuting to downtown. The house prices in those areas have gone up quite a bit lately but still much more reasonable compared to Seattle or eastside.




lhamo

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2022, 08:32:18 AM »
You can, indeed, get much more for your money going south.  This one i Burien is probably a lot bigger than you need -- I flagged it because it has multigenerational housing potential.  It is also just a couple of blocks from the first house I lived in (my dad was a Boeing engineer)

https://www.redfin.com/WA/Burien/13257-4th-Ave-S-98168/home/188652

This one that sold recently over by Angle Lake is cute and much smaller/cheaper.  You could walk or bike to the light rail station in this neighborhood.  Not sure what the noise level is like being so close to Seatac, though:

https://www.redfin.com/WA/SeaTac/19824-32nd-Ave-S-98188/home/341807

six-car-habit

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2022, 10:22:45 AM »
 Is there a way the commuter can negotiate a compressed work week ?     Meaning longer hours but less days in the office.
  How about Kitsap county across the water, fast ferry to downtown from Bremerton or Bainbridge, then a bus to the space needle ?
 

bbates728

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2022, 12:42:36 PM »
You can, indeed, get much more for your money going south.  This one i Burien is probably a lot bigger than you need -- I flagged it because it has multigenerational housing potential.  It is also just a couple of blocks from the first house I lived in (my dad was a Boeing engineer)

https://www.redfin.com/WA/Burien/13257-4th-Ave-S-98168/home/188652

This one that sold recently over by Angle Lake is cute and much smaller/cheaper.  You could walk or bike to the light rail station in this neighborhood.  Not sure what the noise level is like being so close to Seatac, though:

https://www.redfin.com/WA/SeaTac/19824-32nd-Ave-S-98188/home/341807

I am down by Angle Lake and have been for a few years now. Houses down here have two sets of glass in the windows (so for instance, I have to open a window twice to actually get fresh air) which cuts down on the air noise pretty substantially. That said, I still hear planes overhead especially on cloudy nights when they fly lower for visibility. It isn't bad inside especially if you are watching tv, listening to music etc. but I don't get much silence. Entertaining outside during the summer becomes a little tricky with the noise.

Another note about that particular listing. That intersection of 200th and Pac Hi is not the best. It has a long history of prostitution that the city of Des Moines and SeaTac have been trying to tackle since we moved down here. The street walkers have been cleaned up at this point but that stretch of Pac Hi is still overrun with homeless people. I haven't been attacked or anything, but I have seen cars with broken windows down at the Des Moines Creek Trail just half a block west and I would be a teensy bit worried about buying property so close. That said, we rented about a mile west of 200th and Pac Hi and didn't have any issues at all and stayed just across the street from the house in question as an Air BNB and during that three day stay, nothing happened so take it with a grain of salt.

If anyone needs some reconnaissance performed on South Seattle properties or just want to get a beer while they are down here looking, let me know!

lhamo

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Re: Seattleites: Where Should We Buy Single Family Home?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2022, 01:30:36 PM »
It's crazy how local some of these quality of life issues can be!

My zip (98125) is similar in that there are certain areas closer to Lake CIty Way and Sand Point Way that are really hit hard by various public health and safety issues.  People down on Riviera Pl between the Burke Gilman Trail and the lake also get hit hard with break-ins.  But we are far enough up the hill off the trail that we haven't had an issue with property crime other than one car prowl (nothing to take and car was unlocked so they didn't smash anything) and mail theft (a recurring issue and I'm about to approach our neighbors about getting locking mailboxes.

If I start looking more earnestly down south I'll take you up on that beer @bbates728 !