Author Topic: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable  (Read 8548 times)

charis

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #50 on: April 29, 2019, 11:54:33 AM »
Tell her the landlord is requiring to put her name on the lease and ask the landlord to add her. This may scare her into leaving. If not, if she puts her name on the lease, then at least after the lease ends she is not your problem.

The landlord might not be willing to put a person with no income or assets on the lease.

When I rented as a student, the landlord would sometimes remove the door to one of the apartments. After that, the tenant would move out quickly. I don't know how legal that was. But this is part of making her stay miserable.

That is a good point. Maybe all she needs is to tell the roommate the landlord wants to do this and she may just move out (doubtful but may be worth a try).

+1 You could tell her that her name will be added to the leave in two weeks unless she is moved out by the date, at which point another roommate will be moving in and her belongings will be removed.

Honestly, I would tell her to be out by the end of the week - hard deadline (you could threaten police action).  I like the idea of removing her door and hauling away her belongings.  If she physically refuses to leave the premises, start eviction proceedings yourself or via your landlord.

You absolutely shouldn't just suck it up for another year.

The "tenant" here has no legal standing here and is only taking advantage of the OP because the OP lets it happen.

Every town is different, but likely the roommate does have legal standing.  Even without a lease, rent money has changed hands, creating a tenant relationship. That's why the OP has to tread carefully and can't just hurl the roommate's stuff out on the curb.

Okay, so lets go through the logic chain on that:

-OP gets hauled into court for putting the leach's stuff out on the curb. 
-Leach says that she's a tenant, and shows where she paid the OP
-OP points out that the payments stopped, and that's why her shit's on the curb. 

...

-The OP gets to go after the leach for missed rent maybe?

In reality, there was only a verbal agreement, so its a he-said-she-said situation.  Guess who is going to be believed when it comes down to that?  The one with the job that doesn't smoke pot all day, that's who.  And that's the reason that it won't actually go to court. 

It sounds like the OP is just scared to be seen as uncool to her friends for standing up for herself. 

Yeah, legalities aside, you can literally walk into the room, pick up the stuff, and put it on the curb.  Whether the roommate decides to try to "enforce" her rights as a tenant at that point is up to her.  It sounds pretty unlikely.

maizeman

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2019, 11:55:27 AM »
It sounds like the OP is just scared to be seen as uncool to her friends for standing up for herself.

I note that you are continuing to fail to constructively contribute to this conversation.

The "tenant" here has no legal standing here and is only taking advantage of the OP because the OP lets it happen.

It's nice that you know this with such absolute confidence. Would you perhaps case to share your logic and reasoning that allowed you to reach the degree of confidence required for such an absolute statement, taking into account the specific idiosyncrasies of California tenant law?

Note, that I think it is unlikely that the roommate has legal standing here as well, but I know enough to know how counter intuitive some things can be in CA and so am refraining from absolute statements.

Quote
My endgame is to hopefully get the OP pissed off enough that they actually take some action rather than wringing her hands and picking up extra shifts to pay for a deadbeat living in her house!

I am skeptical both that this is actually your goal, and, even if it were, that the strategy you appear to be pursuing would ultimately achieve said goal.

marble_faun

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2019, 12:24:40 PM »
Tell her the landlord is requiring to put her name on the lease and ask the landlord to add her. This may scare her into leaving. If not, if she puts her name on the lease, then at least after the lease ends she is not your problem.

The landlord might not be willing to put a person with no income or assets on the lease.

When I rented as a student, the landlord would sometimes remove the door to one of the apartments. After that, the tenant would move out quickly. I don't know how legal that was. But this is part of making her stay miserable.

That is a good point. Maybe all she needs is to tell the roommate the landlord wants to do this and she may just move out (doubtful but may be worth a try).

+1 You could tell her that her name will be added to the leave in two weeks unless she is moved out by the date, at which point another roommate will be moving in and her belongings will be removed.

Honestly, I would tell her to be out by the end of the week - hard deadline (you could threaten police action).  I like the idea of removing her door and hauling away her belongings.  If she physically refuses to leave the premises, start eviction proceedings yourself or via your landlord.

You absolutely shouldn't just suck it up for another year.

The "tenant" here has no legal standing here and is only taking advantage of the OP because the OP lets it happen.

Every town is different, but likely the roommate does have legal standing.  Even without a lease, rent money has changed hands, creating a tenant relationship. That's why the OP has to tread carefully and can't just hurl the roommate's stuff out on the curb.

Okay, so lets go through the logic chain on that:

-OP gets hauled into court for putting the leach's stuff out on the curb. 
-Leach says that she's a tenant, and shows where she paid the OP
-OP points out that the payments stopped, and that's why her shit's on the curb. 

...

-The OP gets to go after the leach for missed rent maybe?

In reality, there was only a verbal agreement, so its a he-said-she-said situation.  Guess who is going to be believed when it comes down to that?  The one with the job that doesn't smoke pot all day, that's who.  And that's the reason that it won't actually go to court. 

It sounds like the OP is just scared to be seen as uncool to her friends for standing up for herself. 

Yeah, legalities aside, you can literally walk into the room, pick up the stuff, and put it on the curb.  Whether the roommate decides to try to "enforce" her rights as a tenant at that point is up to her.  It sounds pretty unlikely.

The roommate's significant other works in tenant/landlord law. The OP said she would anticipate trouble from them. So it's worth figuring out a careful strategy, not acting in haste.

robartsd

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2019, 12:49:00 PM »
Subtenant has lived there and paid rent for more that 30 days, clearly she has established tenants rights under California law. Unless you can convince her to leave without violating her rights, you must use the legal eviction process or risk making the problem worse for yourself. You could see if a "cash for keys" deal where you agree to pay her a fixed amount as soon as she moves out within a fixed period of time. In parallel, serve her with an eviction notice that outlines the verbal agreement you entered into, the payments you accepted, and the payments missed. If she has not moved out or come up with the full payment within 3 days (or longer if you agreed to a longer period for "cash for keys"), continue the eviction process with the court. Do not accept any payment unless the payment will bring her rent current - accepting partial payment can slow down/reset the eviction process.

BicycleB

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #54 on: April 29, 2019, 12:52:32 PM »
The "tenant" here has no legal standing here and is only taking advantage of the OP because the OP lets it happen.

Every town is different, but likely the roommate does have legal standing.  Even without a lease, rent money has changed hands, creating a tenant relationship. That's why the OP has to tread carefully and can't just hurl the roommate's stuff out on the curb.

Okay, so lets go through the logic chain on that:

-OP gets hauled into court for putting the leach's stuff out on the curb. 
-Leach says that she's a tenant, and shows where she paid the OP
-OP points out that the payments stopped, and that's why her shit's on the curb. 

...

-The OP gets to go after the leach for missed rent maybe?

In reality, there was only a verbal agreement, so its a he-said-she-said situation.  Guess who is going to be believed when it comes down to that?  The one with the job that doesn't smoke pot all day, that's who.  And that's the reason that it won't actually go to court. 

It sounds like the OP is just scared to be seen as uncool to her friends for standing up for herself.

@rothwem, I think you are legitimately trying to make actionable suggestions based on logic where the premises seem self-evident to you. However, I think some of your premises are unsound, resulting in flawed suggestions that would be unwise and risky for the OP.

From experience as a landlord of roommates, I have dug into tenant law in my US city by discussing the matter in some detail with professional tenant advocates and with a lawyer, in addition to reading on the topic with professional interest. I am not writing as a lawyer or presuming to give legal advice, but from what I've read and been told, tenant law is an area that gives much more right to the tenant than you assume.

You may be right that some tenants would back down if challenged, but advising someone to violate a tenant's rights is risky business. Tenants have rights. Surprisingly thin elements can create them. A common remedy when they're violated is that the tenant GETS TO KEEP LIVING THERE. Therefore a common view among landlord advocates is that a landlord's best bet is to follow the local jurisdiction's standard procedures to the letter. Failure to do so can turn a 30-day notice situation into a 6-months-with-no-rent-and-no-ability-to-evict-yet nightmare sometimes. Once a landlord (even a sublessor like the OP) violates procedure, courts are usually predisposed to favor the tenant. Facts such as the renter's stuff being on the premises in the first place is evidence to support sublessee's assertion that a contract existed that was valid even if verbal. Given that, as others have pointed out, the tenant has allies who are proficient in tenant law, I think that the OP would be much better advised to obtain and follow legal counsel.

At minimum, OP should take a course that is not likely to violate the tenant's rights. 30 days to successful eviction is reasonable in some juridictions. In my jurisdiction, throwing their stuff in the street is a good example of how to ensure that the eviction WON'T work.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 12:54:28 PM by BicycleB »

JGS1980

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #55 on: April 29, 2019, 01:44:54 PM »
This thread is yet-another-reminder of why I have no desire to become a landlord....ever.

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #56 on: April 29, 2019, 02:08:30 PM »
This thread is yet-another-reminder of why I have no desire to become a landlord....ever.

A person can't just slide into it accidentally like the OP did. It's the sort of thing that requires prior research and planning, just like starting any other business.

The funny thing about landlording is that there's a behavioral gray area-- but not a legal gray area-- around a lot of group behaviors many people believe are normal. The couch-surfing friend who turns into a permanent fixture, the young adult who boomerangs back home after a job loss or breakup and then regresses to pre-teen brat behavior, and the unauthorized sublet are all things that can cause legal trouble especially for a renter.

Tuskalusa

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #57 on: April 29, 2019, 03:24:23 PM »
Honestly, I think the quickest way out of this is to approach your landlord about breaking the lease. You canít afford to live there on your own, so maybe your best approach is to just give up the house and move on.

The Bay Area market is hot, so your landlord can probably raise the rent again with new tennants. Iím assuming there is a fee to break the lease early. Maybe just pay it and get out. Inform your roommate of the move out date and move on.

Moving forward, get everyone on the lease or get your own place.

These things happen. You got taken advantage of, and it sucks. The best thing you can do is get out of this situation ASAP.

Given your roommateís issues, Iíd probably move all my stuff early, and then inform her of her move out date. You wonít want to be there after you break the news.

This is an excellent example of why we all need emergency funds.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 03:27:46 PM by Tuskalusa »

SKL-HOU

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #58 on: April 29, 2019, 06:06:37 PM »
Subtenant has lived there and paid rent for more that 30 days, clearly she has established tenants rights under California law. Unless you can convince her to leave without violating her rights, you must use the legal eviction process or risk making the problem worse for yourself. You could see if a "cash for keys" deal where you agree to pay her a fixed amount as soon as she moves out within a fixed period of time. In parallel, serve her with an eviction notice that outlines the verbal agreement you entered into, the payments you accepted, and the payments missed. If she has not moved out or come up with the full payment within 3 days (or longer if you agreed to a longer period for "cash for keys"), continue the eviction process with the court. Do not accept any payment unless the payment will bring her rent current - accepting partial payment can slow down/reset the eviction process.

I read somewhere that since this is a verbal agreement, it is considered month-to-month lease between master and sub tenant. So i guess she could give her 1 month notice then evict her if she doesnt leave. Or she could evict her now for non payment. This is my understanding... but it all depends on if she is willing to do that.

iris lily

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #59 on: April 29, 2019, 06:16:57 PM »
Where is that thread about ďthings we need to teach our children.Ē In addition to lessons such as Do you not ever cosign a loan for someone, and lessons about compounding interest, we need to tell them formalize every living situation you have with roommates and tensnts, etc. etc. and know what those Relationships get you in the legal world.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 07:25:16 PM by iris lily »

Tester

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #60 on: April 29, 2019, 08:42:01 PM »
Honestly, I think the quickest way out of this is to approach your landlord about breaking the lease. You canít afford to live there on your own, so maybe your best approach is to just give up the house and move on.

The Bay Area market is hot, so your landlord can probably raise the rent again with new tennants. Iím assuming there is a fee to break the lease early. Maybe just pay it and get out. Inform your roommate of the move out date and move on.

Moving forward, get everyone on the lease or get your own place.

These things happen. You got taken advantage of, and it sucks. The best thing you can do is get out of this situation ASAP.

Given your roommateís issues, Iíd probably move all my stuff early, and then inform her of her move out date. You wonít want to be there after you break the news.

This is an excellent example of why we all need emergency funds.

Exactly my advice.
I fail to understand why the other advice is to try to evict/get into a legal battle.

OP does not afford that lease, let alone evictions.
So OP gets another place with proper contract and one which he can pay.
Then he moves out, tells the other person that on date x the lease expired.
Uses this as a lesson.

Only possible problem would be if the other person does not want to leave.

I don't know the law, does OP have to inform the other person of breaking the lease???? By has to I mean is he required by law to inform the other person???

If yes then I really hope OP learns this lesson and gets out fine.

mistymoney

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #61 on: April 30, 2019, 06:00:24 AM »
Honestly, I think the quickest way out of this is to approach your landlord about breaking the lease. You canít afford to live there on your own, so maybe your best approach is to just give up the house and move on.


Yep, give the landlord notice, and see what the penalty is.

I want to push back a little on the depression. Ok - so maybe she is depressed - but refusing to pay rent and refusing to move out is just a dick move.

Pull the plug on this as quickly as you can. Who is feeding her? buying her toothpaste and tampons?

Soon it may be you, if not already.

Do not view this as a static situation with endurance- it is going to go downhill.

GreenEggs

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #62 on: April 30, 2019, 06:49:29 AM »
Turn off the main power breaker on a Friday afternoon and blame it on the power company. 








Padonak

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #63 on: April 30, 2019, 07:06:13 AM »
If you pay for the internet, change the wifi password.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


Ann

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2019, 07:59:49 AM »
If you pay for the internet, change the wifi password.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Oh, +1

I like this.  If she wants internet, she needs to pay for it herself.  And set things up herself.  Although, if she has accesss to the router, canít she over ride that?

ATR

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #65 on: April 30, 2019, 08:16:50 AM »
PTF and to send you all the good luck and positive vibes for this situation. You have received a ton of good advice here, let us know how it goes!

Zamboni

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #66 on: April 30, 2019, 08:18:28 AM »
I appreciate the spirit of removing the free loader's lights and internet and once had a roommate who put a parental controls password on all channels of the TV to "encourage" our 3rd roommate who refused to pay his share of utilities to shape up (it worked within two days . . . . he liked to watch TV.)

However, I think these things will just cause problems with the friend group (aka "why are you being so mean, Lisa?") Clean break is better.

Again, the lease is unaffordable and your landlord's rent increases seem usurious and predatory. In your shoes, I would start looking for a different place to live and break the lease.

At what rents are in the SF area, OP could probably put her furniture in storage and stay at a cheap hotel for a couple weeks if she had to and still come out ahead.

Pull the plug on this as quickly as you can. Who is feeding her? buying her toothpaste and tampons?

Soon it may be you, if not already.

Do not view this as a static situation with endurance- it is going to go downhill.

Yep, downhill fast. I've had roommates who never bought a roll of toilet paper or jug of laundry soap although they certainly used both . . . and those were people who always paid the rent.

Unless some alternative pathway opens nearly immediately, make a goal to be out of this house yourself by the end of May. Consider it your spring cleaning adventure. Onward and upward, Lisa!

Tuskalusa

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #67 on: April 30, 2019, 08:25:36 AM »
Hold on a sec. This is an unstable roommate. I would strongly advise against provoking her by changing WiFi or other things. The priority is for the OP to get out of this situation.

Please contact the landlord today about breaking the lease. Just tell the landlord you can longer afford the rent and need to move at the end of May.  This is a perfect day to give 30 day notice.

Use the next 2 weeks to get a new arrangement in order. If it needs to be putting your stuff in storage and crashing with a friend until you find something, thatís ok. You just need to leave.

Halfway through the month, when you have your plan solid, tell your roommate that your lease has ended and you both need to be out at the end of May. Donít tell her where youíre going. Donít do anything other than calmly pack and move.

If your roommate starts acting strangely, move early, or take a break from work and go stay with friends or family through the end of the month. Come back and move your stuff out on the last day.

Youíve got this. Ok. Go pick up the phone and call your landlord now...or email them...just do one or the other right now, K?

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #68 on: April 30, 2019, 09:09:36 AM »


Since the leach is not on the lease, Iíd throw her shit in the street and change the locks if she wonít comply. She has no legal right to be there. Make sure to give the landlord a copy of the key.


Depending on jurisdiction, this very well may not be true.  In many cases, whether you are still paying or not, on a lease or not, once you have lived somewhere for a certain period of time, it can be very difficult to get rid of them.

I'd talk to a lawyer.

SunnyDays

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #69 on: April 30, 2019, 09:15:20 AM »
Or inform her that since you're paying all the rent, you expect the use of all the apartment.  Then start moving some stuff into her room and her stuff out.

reeshau

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #70 on: April 30, 2019, 10:20:16 AM »
Again, the lease is unaffordable and your landlord's rent increases seem usurious and predatory. In your shoes, I would start looking for a different place to live and break the lease.

Very true.  Just this would be reason to move.  I know real estate is nuts, is this typical landlord behavior in SF?  OP. even if it was just you, and you could have afforded it (at first) this sounds like trouble in itself.

It could also provide you cover for the social circle.

Catbert

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #71 on: April 30, 2019, 11:22:47 AM »
You gotten some good advice and some spectacularly bad advice.  California is a tenant friendly state.  Spend the money to see an attorney. 

I'll also point out that just breaking the lease and moving out leaving unauthorized roommate there won't solve your problem.  As long as roommate is there the landlord may take the position* that "you", his renter, hasn't returned a vacant property to him. 

*IMO this is a legitimate position for landlord to take.  As a landlord I hold all roommates accountable until property is vacated and damages paid for.  That goes double when my tenant has allowed someone unauthorized to move in.

ysette9

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #72 on: April 30, 2019, 11:24:59 AM »
PTF.
Good luck

Goldielocks

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #73 on: April 30, 2019, 11:46:02 AM »
Subtenant has lived there and paid rent for more that 30 days, clearly she has established tenants rights under California law. Unless you can convince her to leave without violating her rights, you must use the legal eviction process or risk making the problem worse for yourself. You could see if a "cash for keys" deal where you agree to pay her a fixed amount as soon as she moves out within a fixed period of time. In parallel, serve her with an eviction notice that outlines the verbal agreement you entered into, the payments you accepted, and the payments missed. If she has not moved out or come up with the full payment within 3 days (or longer if you agreed to a longer period for "cash for keys"), continue the eviction process with the court. Do not accept any payment unless the payment will bring her rent current - accepting partial payment can slow down/reset the eviction process.

This for certain is the way to go forward.
After the legal eviction notice, local jurisdiction will usually allow you to box up and store (not destroy / put to curb) items that the tenant has left behind after the move out date.   Process varies by region.

Also, as a former landlord, I would want to know about the problems, and I would be ready to help if absolutely needed (to protect my interests) or I may offer to exit the lease, etc..(for a steep re-rental fee)., I would be annoyed if I had to take action, myself.  Come to me with a plan and it is just FYI, and we are good.   Tenants that communicate the important stuff, early, are good tenants, even if it is not great news.  Face it, no tenant communication is good news, is it..?  I would not end a lease a year later over this if it was resolved and the tenant paid in full and kept the property / neighbors happy.

I did evict tenants with the continuously exploding toilets (due to mis treatment), and the ones who stopped paying rent.

frugaliknowit

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #74 on: April 30, 2019, 11:56:40 AM »
The lesson learned is always have a written roommate agreement with a deposit.
Remember:  You are not the Salvation Army or some other charity!!

Here's what I would do:

1.  Contact her mother and partner.  Explain that you are DONE and are going to evict her.  Tell them you want her out NOW! 

If #1 fails:

2.  Type up a written "you're outta here" within XX days (find out what's legal in your locality).  Try to get her to sign it.  If not, post it on her door.  If she doesn't sign it, take a picture of it posted to her door.  Send that picture to her mother and partner.  What kind of mother and partner would not help her at this point?

3.  Any furniture that you own that's in her bedroom (including the bed) is to be removed immediately.  You don't need to provide any furniture for her.

If she is not out on day XX, get the help of a few friends and throw all of her crap outside and change the locks.  Legal eviction, I believe.

Cassie

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #75 on: April 30, 2019, 12:00:49 PM »
Frugal, thatís probably not legal in California. Tenants have lots of rights in that state and her boyfriend is employed in this area so probably knows all her rights.

Goldielocks

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #76 on: April 30, 2019, 12:05:53 PM »
Get legal advice before restricting access to items that could be considered part of the rent when she first moved in.   
In my area, I can not cut WIFI or even not replace a busted microwave, if I leased the unit to a tenant with them, and did not say that these items were not included  in rent (or indicated that they were my personal property, not related to the rental) and would go away when broken.

That includes WIFI, Power, changing locks to restrict access to the rented room, etc.
Common area items are a gray area.  Oven, sink, fridge access = yes, part of normal rent if kitchen access is included.   Access to your personal furniture items? Gray area.


former player

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #77 on: April 30, 2019, 12:32:23 PM »
I definitely agree with contacting her mother and boyfriend: say you can't afford the rent if she doesn't contribute her share and have contacted the landlord asking him to evict her as soon as possible.  It sounds as though they aren't too keen on having her live with them, after all.

Can you develop a taste for the kind of music she hates most, and play it all day?

What about making social media work for you not her?  You have nothing but sympathy here: I would have thought you would be able to work up a sob story on your friend's network that you have to give up your house because you can't afford it despite working two jobs and sadly you don't know what will become of your sick roommate.

Tester

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #78 on: April 30, 2019, 01:56:00 PM »
You gotten some good advice and some spectacularly bad advice.  California is a tenant friendly state.  Spend the money to see an attorney. 

I'll also point out that just breaking the lease and moving out leaving unauthorized roommate there won't solve your problem.  As long as roommate is there the landlord may take the position* that "you", his renter, hasn't returned a vacant property to him. 

*IMO this is a legitimate position for landlord to take.  As a landlord I hold all roommates accountable until property is vacated and damages paid for.  That goes double when my tenant has allowed someone unauthorized to move in.

I was afraid about the part where you break the lease and you are still responsible.
Unfortunately I agree with that part - the landlord leased to you and now you are the one creating problems.
So, see a lawyer and the  break the lease.
I still stand by my advice of breaking the lease asap and finding something you can afford.

It is hard to "not help" your friend but if you won't do it now you will just work for her.
First get in a position where you afford to help and then help.
Like in the airplane, first secure your oxygen mask, then help others.

rothwem

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #79 on: April 30, 2019, 02:51:08 PM »
I think we scared off @lisa333

Zamboni

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #80 on: April 30, 2019, 03:54:46 PM »
No, she's probably just working a double shift today and doing landlord-tenant law research during her breaks.

Which is a drag.

kristof

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #81 on: April 30, 2019, 05:24:32 PM »
Sorry to hear about the predicament. How about doing the following:

1. Advertise the apartment and find someone willing to take over your lease for the rest of the year.

2. Go to the landlord, fess up, and give him two options:
(a) I have a new tenant for you; they are ready to move in and all you need to do is help me evict the freeloader if necessary, and you'll never see either of us again.
(b) I break the lease, pay you what's required and you have to find new tenants (and possibly still deal with the freeloader).

If I'm the owner I'm more likely to take option (a) because it comes with a solution to one of my two problems. The downside is you need to manage both a tenant search and an apartment search at the same time and it sounds like you're already pressed for time. If the owner picks (b) then it's probably your least bad remaining option.

calimom

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #82 on: April 30, 2019, 09:58:09 PM »
A few off the wall thoughts;
1) set up a Go Fund Me, for her, but you as the person to whom the money goes (for her rent). Tag all the friends.   Set it up stating what 6 months of rent will be, saying that you have already provided 3 and can't do anymore.    Ask them directly to contribute saying that she will have to move out if no one can help.

2) Just write up the standard tenant eviction notice for non-payment and give it to her.  There should be standard forms on line for your city / state.  Assume that you have a standard sub-lease (if verbal) agreement.  You can even paste it to her door if she won't accept a handed over copy or starts crying, etc.  Very little to say, really.   Oh, tell your landlord first what is happening.

3)  If she balks at the idea of being treated like a standard tenant, then can you go through the "get my ex crazy GF out of my apartment?" mode?  There must be a way to get a (depressed or crazy) but not violent ex out of your home that you are sole tenant for, when you break up in SFO.    Just start calling her your ex, and that you broke up because you realized that you are actually straight after all.   You were keeping the relationship secret from your family and friends because you were in the closet and unsure about it all.... etc. etc. etc.

This is the craziest post I've ever read here. And that's saying a lot!

Goldielocks

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #83 on: May 01, 2019, 12:26:47 AM »
Points for creativity!   I win!

:-)

Sibley

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #84 on: May 01, 2019, 08:47:36 AM »
OP, in addition to fixing the current situation, 2 things to remember for future:

ALWAYS GET IT IN WRITING

And you should probably not be a landlord unless you're able to significantly rework how you handle these situations.

MoolahLula

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #85 on: May 03, 2019, 08:59:12 AM »
So, April 30th has come and gone, what happened, OP?  What action did you take?  Inquiring minds want to know!

Chrissy

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #86 on: May 03, 2019, 01:46:51 PM »
Ah, Lisa, I feel so bad for you!  The misery of working two jobs while you're away and, then, being held hostage by this woman when you're home is an EMERGENCY.  You're drowning, and let's stop thinking about whether lowering the lifeboat is legal.  Save yourself now, worry about that shit later.

1)  Line up a place to live for next month or asap.

2)  Notify landlord that you are breaking the lease, and will not paying as of next month.  Also, apprise him that you had a friend helping you with the rent, but she stopped contributing, and now she won't move out.  Apologize for this, then tell him you have no resources, and cannot continue carrying the apartment, so GOODBYE. 

3)  Don't discuss with your friends, don't tell your roommate, just go.  Hire movers with packing & boxes with your EF or credit cards, so you can get out all at once, and with other people present.

Once you're in the glorious peace of your own apartment, you can deal with whatever fallout might occur.  Will she sue you?  She might, but probably not.  Suing is a hassle, and she barely leaves her room.  It requires meetings, paperwork, jumping through hoops... very hard for someone with depression.  She might need a lawyer to do it, but she doesn't have any money to pay one.  And, how is she going to get someone else in her life to pay for a lawyer?  There's nothing in it for the boyfriend:  just one poor person suing another poor person.  How much money could she even say she was out?  At most, half the rent for the year?  So, in that case, you'll negotiate that amount down, and then you'll negotiate a payment plan.  It'll likely be for less than you're paying for her now!

It's even less likely that your landlord will sue you, but even if it happens, again, it won't be for some astronomical sum.  You'll negotiate, you'll get on a payment plan, whatever.

It's 90% certain you could ghost the whole situation tomorrow and have no bad consequences whatsoever.  In fact, you'd have more money in your pocket, and one less deadbeat roommate dragging you down.


jim555

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #87 on: May 03, 2019, 03:10:21 PM »
I read about parents going to court to get their son evicted, and he never paid rent.  They couldn't just change the locks.  Laws are different in different states.

TFTF

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #88 on: May 03, 2019, 06:33:32 PM »
Provided OP is in San Francisco, which we don't know (she only mentioned Bay Area, and landlord/tenant law varies heavily by specific city within CA), it is entirely legal for the OP as master tenant to evict her subtenant. (Source: http://hrcsf.org/know-your-rights-as-a-tenant-in-sf/roommates-subletting/) Given that SF has the strongest tenant protections of any city in the Bay Area, I think it's extremely likely that the OP can evict if not in SF proper, too. There are nuances around how to do this properly, so I would still consult legal resources.

rothwem

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #89 on: May 04, 2019, 06:43:54 AM »


It's 90% certain you could ghost the whole situation tomorrow and have no bad consequences whatsoever.  In fact, you'd have more money in your pocket, and one less deadbeat roommate dragging you down.

Wow, this is even worse advice than I have earlier.

If I was the landlord in this situation, Iíd probably come after the OP for her lease termination fee, and the costs required to evict the deadbeat.

Chrissy

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #90 on: May 04, 2019, 11:51:14 AM »


It's 90% certain you could ghost the whole situation tomorrow and have no bad consequences whatsoever.  In fact, you'd have more money in your pocket, and one less deadbeat roommate dragging you down.

Wow, this is even worse advice than I have earlier.

If I was the landlord in this situation, Iíd probably come after the OP for her lease termination fee, and the costs required to evict the deadbeat.

ARE you a landlord?  Because she's judgment-proof, so that's a terrible allocation of resources.  Send her to collections, and get a few pennies.  She'll settle with the bill collector for less than she would've payed if she'd stayed, and, meanwhile, she'll be free.  Sounds like a fair consequence to me for this mistake, but most landlords won't even bother with collections.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 11:56:20 AM by Chrissy »

rothwem

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Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #91 on: May 04, 2019, 03:43:09 PM »
I am a landlord.

And it doesnít sound like the OP is judgement proof, just the deadbeat is. Someone not paying the lease break fee is pretty easy to recover if court, itís written right in the lease in my case. If you ghost without telling me, Iím entitled to a months rent lease breakage fee, and the last 45 days of rent as well since thatís what I require as an notice of moving out (so technically you still live there even though your stuff isnít there)

Getting the eviction costs recovered is a bit trickier, but if it were me Iíd totally try. In NC, eviction is a 3-4,000$ process, itís probably even pricer in CA. You can bet your ass Iíd go after someone to get that amount of money back, and it would probably be the person whoís name is on the lease that let the deadbeat live there in the first place.

Another note though, I wouldnít have rented the place to the OP without anyone else on the lease if I thought she would struggle to pay the rent herself. I require 3x rent for income, and if you canít make the rent with that, you shouldnít be applying to live at my place.  Iím not in an insane hcol area though, qualification requirements might be different there.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 03:46:50 PM by rothwem »

Montecarlo

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #92 on: May 04, 2019, 07:42:33 PM »
I like the idea of shutting off power and internet like some others have suggested.  I would also consider skipping a rent payment, getting the eviction notice, and boxing up your stuff.  Any luck sheíll beat you out the door and you can then pay the rent.

Chrissy

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #93 on: May 04, 2019, 08:37:45 PM »
I am a landlord.

And it doesnít sound like the OP is judgement proof, just the deadbeat is. Someone not paying the lease break fee is pretty easy to recover if court, itís written right in the lease in my case. If you ghost without telling me, Iím entitled to a months rent lease breakage fee, and the last 45 days of rent as well since thatís what I require as an notice of moving out (so technically you still live there even though your stuff isnít there)

Getting the eviction costs recovered is a bit trickier, but if it were me Iíd totally try. In NC, eviction is a 3-4,000$ process, itís probably even pricer in CA. You can bet your ass Iíd go after someone to get that amount of money back, and it would probably be the person whoís name is on the lease that let the deadbeat live there in the first place.

Another note though, I wouldnít have rented the place to the OP without anyone else on the lease if I thought she would struggle to pay the rent herself. I require 3x rent for income, and if you canít make the rent with that, you shouldnít be applying to live at my place.  Iím not in an insane hcol area though, qualification requirements might be different there.

Thank you for posting real numbers and exactly what you'd look to recover!  Let's look at this again:

She moved to the area after a breakup and took on a roommate, making a rookie mistake.  So, she's probably still in her 20s with student loans dragging her down.  She's renting a SFH in the Bay Area, so the rent is $4-5k/mo, and she's working probably 70-80hrs/wk at a job where she's non-exempt to pay it.  None of this makes me optimistic about her level of income or assets.

If Lisa's lease is similar to your tenants', she'd owe the breakage fee ($4k) and 45 days rent ($6k), plus maybe eviction costs (let's say $8k).  That's $10k-$18k, which she could probably negotiate down.  Meanwhile, let's say she gets a studio for ~$2k/mo.  So, for the next 12 months she could pay $32k-$42k to live by herself, regaining some of her life by cutting her hours down, vs. $48k to stick it out to the end of the lease, work like a dog, and let this woman mooch.

MDfive21

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #94 on: May 06, 2019, 08:41:08 AM »
maybe she's judgement proof*, but she also doesn't want an eviction on her record, nor does she want to ruin her credit report over a bad decision to take in a roommate.

* judgement proof for now, but plenty of creditors will ruin a credit report out of spite or in hopes of collecting at some point in the future. 

i've hesitated to jump in but i think OP needs to enlist the help of the landlord.  set a meeting, lay everything out on the table and be apologetic.  i bet LL will have some sympathy.  she's young and these things happen.  like other LLs have said in this thread, they just want their property to be in good shape and producing rent.  they know the local law and will have experience with this sort of situation.

eta:  if she ghosts and the roomie invites 5 other deadbeats to live there and squat til the law kicks them out, OP will be on the hook financially for damages.  do not ghost (this time)!

lisa333

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #95 on: June 07, 2019, 03:05:10 AM »
Hi everyone!

Whew! There was definitely a whirlwind of responses. I really appreciate the (mostly) helpful replies.

So basically what happened was I decided I needed to get out of the lease. Before I dealt with the landlord, I started looking at apartments for rent in the area just to get a sense of what kind of situation I could afford on my own. I told my roommate and everyone I knew that I couldn't afford my current place anymore, and as soon as I found an affordable apartment I was going to break my lease and move. I started tearing my house apart, packing up all my belongings, and looking at apartments every chance I got.

I was honestly surprised that this action in and of itself seemed to spook my roommate. I told her (kind of bluffing) that I was going to be gone July 1st and that I didn't know who was going to show up to deal with her after I left. She really didn't like this idea, and I think she saw her cozy little cocoon crashing down around her! Initially her plan was to live in her car, so I helped her jump-start her sad little car just to make sure it still ran so she could make it out of the driveway. I know everyone on here talks real tough, but for me personally, jumping her car so she could move into it was just excruciating. I feel awful to be witnessing someone's life falling apart in such intimate proximity.

It turned out that other friends of ours truly couldn't deal with her living in her car, so offered to let her move in with them with all of these conditions (like that it be temporary, and that she apply for jobs, etc.) I think they're making a horrific mistake but it's not like I'm going to discourage it! I'd be thrilled if it works out for everyone and she gets her life back together.

So while I was still looking for an apartment (and hadn't contacted my landlord yet) I got to talking to a very old friend of mine whose sister is also looking for an apartment in this area. I was super hesitant to try the roommate thing again, but I've known her and her whole family for 17 years now, so I feel like I have a better sense of what I'm getting into. We started looking at apartments together, with the idea that we'd both be on the lease and we'd split the rent 50/50.

Well, she visited where I live now, and said she wished she could just live there, and that she'd gladly pay half the rent and utilities to stay there. She manages a restaurant nearby so it is really an ideal location for her. I told her I'd definitely be moving out when the lease is up in March but she's fine with that. It saves me a lot of hassle (and cash) of breaking the lease early.

So it probably sounds like I'm making the same mistake all over again, but even if I get a few months of rent out of her and then it turns out the whole world is nothing but deadbeats I'm still in a better position than I am now.

We're going to try to get her on the lease as an official roommate if the landlord will allow it. I don't see why they wouldn't, especially if I make the case that I literally can't afford this house on my own anymore. I've been a good tenant as far as they're concerned! On the other hand, the landlord is "Invitation Homes," an evil corporate empire, so I wouldn't put it past them to be hard to deal with.

Thank you again to everyone for all of your advice.

Lisa

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #96 on: June 07, 2019, 03:27:26 AM »
I think when a question gets so many different responses it can spook the original poster and we never hear from them again.  So thank you for coming back to post on the thread.

I'm so pleased you found what seems like an excellent resolution to your problem (and I hope you don't find out that the world is deadbeats all the way down, but given the long family connection I suspect you'll be fine).

MoolahLula

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #97 on: June 07, 2019, 03:59:49 AM »
Awesome job, Lisa.  This sounds like a pretty happy ending to me. 

reeshau

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #98 on: June 07, 2019, 05:22:15 AM »
Congratulations!  It's great to hear a lucky break come around for you.

Do try and get some official status for the new roommate.  You are friends, but that just means there is more at stake if things go sideways.  Maybe she could even take over the lease when you leave, which could be good for both of you, then.

And not to add ominous foreshadowing, but do you think this new arrangement will get back to the mutual friends of your own roomie?  You might need to do some bridge building or insulation to make sure they don't assume that these events happened in a different order, and you were dumping her *in order to* bring on someone else.

Manchester

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Re: Roommate situation gone wrong, now miserable
« Reply #99 on: June 07, 2019, 06:23:09 AM »
Glad you've resolved this issue. 

I don't know the exact mental state of the person you were house sharing with.  I'm pretty confident smoking weed constantly is only going to increase their mental health issues. 


Also - howcome she can find money for weed and not for rent?  Seems like she's royally taken the p***.