Resignation Counter Offer

[HydroJim]

Leaving my current large engineering company for a ~19% raise and a promotion. My only motivation for leaving is salary. I actually love everything else about my current job but, despite overwhelmingly positive feedback, they (HR) has refused my requests for a promotion/raise. They seem to not be able to fathom that some employees may be above average and advance quicker than the norm. All my immediate leads/supervisors advocate for me or at least claim to advocate for me but are seemingly left powerless by HR and upper management.

Leaving has apparently gotten the money tree to start growing and my resignation has given HR the ability to authorize a counter offer. I haven't received the offer yet (in-work), but I am curious what are Mustachian's opinions on counter offers?

The regular internet seems to be a mixed bag of opinions. Some stories mention getting fired shortly after accepting a counter offer. I have a hard time believing a fortune 500 company would fire someone like that since they are always so scared of getting sued by terminated employees. It seems like nobody ever gets fired around here.

If the current company closely matches or exceeds the other company's offer, I think I'd really prefer to stay. The other company seems really good, but I'll be starting from scratch and I suspect the culture may not be as intense as I enjoy (I might be less stressed but also more bored). If the current company is the 95% solution to my ideal role, then the new position is probably a 90% solution. Either way, I will be sufficiently happy with the work.

[Kronsey]

I had a similar thing happen in my first "real job" in public accounting out of College.

I had been busting my butt for close to two years, and they offered me a $2,800/yr raise at my yearly review.

I already had another job lined up in public at a $7k/yr raise with less hours guaranteed, but figured I would wait for my review.

I asked the main partner if there was room for negotiation, and he basically said it was take it or leave it. I said ok and left for the day and further negotiated my new job offer.

A couple of days later, I went in said partner's office to turn in my resignation. He magically came up with a few more thousand dollars to offer me.

I declined and took the new job. I suggest you do the same for a few reasons:

1. Do you really want to work somewhere knowing that they had extra money to give you but held out just because they thought you'd accept less? That doesn't seem like an org that is happy about rewarding high achievers.

2. Once your management team knows you have almost left before, it would follow as human nature that you will be pegged differently moving forward.

The above is just my opinion obviously, but I see no good out of you staying at an company where you already initiated a break up.

[Rdy2Fire]

My rule.. never take a counter offer. You were ready to leave because you felt under paid or under appreciated, both or something else; bottom line you were ready to go. MORE importantly

2. Once your management team knows you have almost left before, it would follow as human nature that you will be pegged differently moving forward.

Spot on, you are potentially viewed as someone who isn't dedicated or a team player so if anyone needs to get cut you're now an overpaid (in their mind) non team player.

[Gone_Hiking]

Full agreement with @Kronsey and @Rdy2Fire.  In addition to good points already made, a 2-week notice leaves the employer in an unenviable situation.  A good performer who exits for greener pastures leaves a vacancy and filing vacancies takes time.  The counteroffer, if accepted, buys the employer time to find a more loyal replacement.  And if you have already accepted another job offer, your credibility and trustworthiness will suffer if you accept the counter offer and rescind your acceptance of the new position.

[Faramir]

I'd probably vote for move to the new company, although it depends on exactly what your current company offer.

3 years ago I stayed with my current company when they matched a 10% increase in pay offered by a competitor.  I don't feel I've been black-marked or perceived as disloyal.  However, because of the 10% bump then, the last few pay reviews have been very poor (good performance review but low or no payrise); I think because I'm now on more than others in the team I'm being penalised until they get closer to catching up. 

The other thing not mentioned by others so far is your new company have offered a promotion, not just a raise.  At your relatively young age this can be quite valuable and look better on your resume in the future = better earning potential not too far down the road.

I think leaving may also lead to HR/upper management in your current company to take people more seriously next time.

[AlotToLearn]

Never ever take a counter offer from a current employer.

[Dogastrophe]

If it was me (and in the past it has been me), I wouldn't give any consideration to the counter offer.  Sounds like they had multiple chances to keep you and brushed you off.  The only reason they are countering is because you have now put them in a bind.  Take the new job and don't look back.

[mistymoney]

I agree best to leave.

Remember - you can always come back in 2-3 years. But staying is usually not the best way forward.

[Brother Esau]

I accepted a counter offer once and the job quickly became awkward. I left about a year later.

[BlueHouse]

I agree with the others. Take the new job.  Don't look back.  Remember how it feels when someone decides that you're worth less than you are just because you have no other options. 

I also think it's time that people start being more truthful about how important money is.  I once had a boss who said in front of me, to his boss, "oh, BlueHouse isn't here for the money, she's a team player" and that's when it all dawned on me.  I was the sucker who made it possible for everyone ELSE to get a bigger raise. 

When you interview and someone asks why you're leaving, don't be afraid to say "For the money.  I liked everything about company X, but I can get paid more somewhere else".  When I started being honest about my motivations, it was amazing how my desires were suddenly met. 

[Sibley]

https://www.askamanager.org/2012/03/why-you-shouldnt-take-a-counteroffer.html

[2Birds1Stone]

I accepted a counter offer and left 4 months later anyway, also had to rescind an accepted offer which was awkward.....but didn't burn the bridge. The manager whose offer I rescinded recently sought me out after he joined a new company, he understood that he couldn't get me the package I wanted/needed to make the move.

Overall this resulted in a permanent 30% increase to my income.

[Need2Save]

confession...I work in HR but I think you'll be surprised by my two cents.

I once accepted a counter offer to stay at a large organization when the main reason I was leaving was money and a promotion. My then employer gave me both more money and a promotion to stay, but this wasn't after I had first asked and been turned down. So my resignation was actually the first time they knew I wanted advancement and more money. They considered me a high-performer and wanted to keep me and I was good with the counter offer. The only bad thing was the other people at my same level at the time did not also get promotions and made it awkward for a little while.

In current times, I would def. take the new job offer and decline any counter-offer to stay because you've already put them on notice that pay is an issue for you and they've given you the standard line about not being able to do anything about it. I have dealt with a lot of employee/manager relation issues over the years and I think many (maybe even most) managers want their employees to think they are fighting the good fight for them with HR and upper management, but they are actually not fighting that hard for them.  They may ask about it once or twice, but do not push against the standard policy. It's easy for them to say 'well I tried to get more money for you, but they won't let me'.

I once wanted to promote someone on my team and got blocked on the premise we needed to keep the department 'lean' without too many layers. I was really pissed about it, but I did manage to get this person on to our formal bonus plan, so the title is not there, but at least there is more compensation coming her way.

You are young...take the job (as long as the location and benefits are also good) and see what it's like elsewhere.  You can always change again in 2 or 3 more years. This is totally acceptable now-a-days.  And if more people follow suit, the company will eventually reconsider their pay practices and this will help other people that come after you.

[tawyer]

This degree of unanimity is rare if not unheard of here! I'm just going to add another data point: when my employer had lay-offs, a number of high-performers were let go: they had recently accepted counter-offers (I know that they had resigned). Those that were paid above their level were also let go, but that's a different story... Point being when the executioner comes it pays to represent "loyalty" and "value": that 19% raise quickly evaporates while you're out of work.

[Zola.]

I accepted a counter offer 2 years ago and stayed at the company. I enjoy the company and most of the people are great. At the time I was worried it would be bad... but I am still here now. No drama although I was somewhat pressured into taking on more varied work, somewhat related to my field.

I actually have been given more project work and moving into a new specialised role. I have just had the best review and hoping to get a further good raise in my new role, I have pitched for 20% (in line with market rate for my new role), but HR advised they may only deal at 17% as I am freshly in the role, (which is still a great result), lets see.....should hear next in a week or two once everything settles.

Don't believe all the horror stories. Every situation can be different, but at the end of the day it's just business and almost entirely relies on personal relationships, work ethic and value.

[FIRE 20/20]

1. Do you really want to work somewhere knowing that they had extra money to give you but held out just because they thought you'd accept less? That doesn't seem like an org that is happy about rewarding high achievers.

2. Once your management team knows you have almost left before, it would follow as human nature that you will be pegged differently moving forward.

I guess I'll be the one to offer the other side; I think you should accept the counter-offer and stay.  I like what @Kronsey wrote above, because I think the two points frame the thought process well.  Regarding #1, when I was a manager I had a very limited budget to work with for raises.  For example, if I had 10 employees who each made $100k (just to make the math easy), my budget overall was $1M.  If the raise pool for the company was 3%, that meant I had $30k to distribute to 10 employees.  Every dollar that went to one person came out of someone else's pocket.  If I had a top performer who I wanted to give a 20% raise to, that would take up $20k of my $30k budget.  It wasn't that I or the organization didn't want to reward high achievers, even though that's how it could look.  It was that we had to keep costs down to stay competitive.  There were other ways to get bigger raises for people, but they really only became an option when we knew we were going to lose someone.  In other words, I wouldn't interpret their unwillingness to give you a big raise without a fight as indicative of the organization being unwilling to pay you what you're worth; rather I would think about it as them trying to stay competitive. 
As for #2, as a manager I had a few people I really wanted to get bigger raises for, but I knew that unless they tried to leave I simply wasn't going to be able to convince HR to pay them what they were worth.  I *wanted* those people to get another offer so I could go to HR and get that big raise.  As a manager I never, ever would have held it against anyone if they had gotten an offer from somewhere else and used it to get more with my company.  I would have been happy for them.  With that said, I would only have done that for people who I felt were underpaid.  If a low performer had done this, I would not have countered and would have been happy to see them leave. 

My only motivation for leaving is salary. I actually love everything else about my current job but, despite overwhelmingly positive feedback, they (HR) has refused my requests for a promotion/raise. They seem to not be able to fathom that some employees may be above average and advance quicker than the norm. All my immediate leads/supervisors advocate for me or at least claim to advocate for me but are seemingly left powerless by HR and upper management.

This is the key part of your post, in my opinion.  You prefer your current organization to the new one, and the only thing motivating you to leave is pay.  I think it would be a mistake to think of it as HR not understanding that some are above average and advance more quickly than the norm.  In my old organization the policy was to pay everyone an average of 90% of the market rate for their position.  They were relying on people not being willing to deal with the hassle of finding a new job for an 11% raise.  For the ones that did, they had plenty of money to pay the ones they wanted to keep (top performers) via a counter-offer.  This allowed them to win more business because they had lower rates.  In other words, it's not that they don't fathom that some may be above average; it's that they tried to keep costs down by waiting to pay top people what they're worth until forced to.  You have to be both above average *and* willing to look for another job to get that big pay increase and promotion. 

Now, if you think your manager is vindictive and will hold this against you, and you think it's the kind of place that looks to fire people who make reasonable requests, then sure - jump ship.  But it sounds like it's generally a good place to work and you found that you needed to fight really hard to get what you're paid.  I'd take that knowledge and move forward with the good situation you have. 

[nirodha]

Even if you really like the current company, you're better off leaving and coming back a few years later. It's the fast path up the ladder.

[Papa bear]

As a headhunter, counter offers rarely work out.  In your situation, with a Fortune 500 company, you usually have to leave to get your big pay bump anyway.  If you stay for 30 years, you get the shitty raises.  Leave, get your 20% bump, reapply to original company in 3 years and get another 20% bump.  It’s the game you have to play.


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[honeybbq]

Great food for thought here:

https://www.askamanager.org/2012/03/why-you-shouldnt-take-a-counteroffer.html

[Villanelle]

Even if they match or slightly beat your offer, what next?  You are already at the top of what they want pay you.  Do you really think that future pay raises will be significant?  You will be topped out.  At the new company, you are just starting out and that generally means there is lots of room for growth.  Unless there is something about the new company that you actively don't like, I'd make the move. 

[FIRE@50]

Take the money. This goes back to what I view as the primary goal of FIRE: to quit working so that I can do what ever I want to. That means making as much money as quickly as you can. I'm willing to take a less optimal job if it means that I can retire sooner or retire at the same time but with more money.

BUT, don't lose sight of benefits too. Check the 401k match and vacation time in addition to the salary.

[HydroJim]

Wow. I didn't expect this post to gain this much traction. Thank you all for your feedback. Definitely a lot of food for thought.

I tallied it all up and it looks like 13 votes to leave, 6 votes were mixed, and 2 votes to stay. The rest of internet seems to have the same distribution of opinions.

I think my original post left out some important details so here's some more detailed info. Either way, I think I'm in a really good position. Not to be naive, but I am not too worried about being outright replaced because my current place doesn't really have that type of culture. I know for a fact that 2 of my 3 bosses up the chain have done this exact same thing in the past. Being at the top of the list for layoffs is probably a valid concern though. I'm also not too worried about lack of growth/raises as no matter where I go, I suspect the annual raises will always be 2-3% which is basically not a raise. Whether I take the new offer or stay where I'm at, I expect to start looking again in 2-3 years anyway...


Current Compensation:
"junior" [0-2 yrs] engineering role
$70,500+paid overtime as straight time for my current project (Usually 10% or so. No telling when paid overtime might end)
~4% (of salary) profit sharing
5.5% 401k contribution to grow to 6.5% in 2 years
Pros:
-4 weeks PTO, to grow to 5 weeks in ~1.5 more years
-9/80 schedule so every other Friday is off (Didn't realize how much I liked this until I started thinking about not having it)
-Good growth (not in title) & mentorship up to this point.
-Work is exactly what I like to do
Cons:
-Didn't give me a raise/promotion when I asked, repeatedly. Hiding behind the guise of HR/"nothing we could do before"
-If I had to pick out my biggest complaint, it would be that the large company bureaucracy is typically dysfunctional and can be frustrating at times.

Offered Compensation:
"mid" [3-8 yrs] engineering role
$80,000 (No overtime)
~9% (of salary) Employee stock contribution [2 year vesting]
6% 401k contribution
Pros:
Seems to be a very well regarded business (not that my current one isn't)
Bank up to 240 hrs PTO, then paid out for anything over. Starting with only 3 weeks PTO, I don't feel like I'd ever really bank any time up...
Learn new skills [Learning a lot at my current job, but the new job would be completely new for a bit.]
Smaller organization so probably more flexibility regarding things in general?
Cons:
-Will lose 2019 profit sharing at current job
-Will have to pay back $9,100 in tuition reimbursement to current employer, but I've got 50hrs PTO banked at the current job so that brings it down to about $8,000. So it would take me about 7 months to break even
-Don't know what I'm walking into. It could be a shit show or it could be great
-Only 3 weeks PTO, to grow to 4 in 5 years and never grow again

Current employer counter offer:
TBD... expect something early next week
Pros:
-
Cons:
-Burn bridge at outside employer since I've already interviewed, negotiated, and accepted the offer



At think at this point, I'll wait to see what the counter offer ends up being. If it's not good enough, then that'll make the choice easy for me. If they exceed the outside offer, it'll be something to think about.

Stay tuned...

[Papa bear]

So that adds a lot more info.  You still have room to negotiate either side here. It’s not uncommon for a new company to pay the differences in tuition reimbursement as a sign on bonus, the new company can adjust their PTO schedule for you, etc. 

Negotiate both sides HARD.  You’ve “accepted” but you haven’t started yet.  It happens all the time that I get candidates to renegotiate after counters after they already “accepted” an offer.  You have all the power here. 


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[mistymoney]

for the new job negotiation, ask for the tuition payback as a sign on bonus, and ask for the extra week of PTO right off the bat.

[Rdy2Fire]

for the new job negotiation, ask for the tuition payback as a sign on bonus, and ask for the extra week of PTO right off the bat.

100% agree

[HydroJim]

Phew, this group must be full of shrewd negotiators.

I already asked about the sign on bonus & PTO and the recruiter gave a flat "no, we don't do sign on bonuses period at this level of position" so I, perhaps mistakenly, didn't push the discussion any further.

I think if my current company provides a good counter offer then I'll see if the other company is willing to sweeten the deal at all. At that point, I'll probably bypass the recruiter and talk directly to the hiring manager since I have their contact info. I want to do my best to not burn that bridge, if possible.

[Papa bear]

Phew, this group must be full of shrewd negotiators.

I already asked about the sign on bonus & PTO and the recruiter gave a flat "no, we don't do sign on bonuses period at this level of position" so I, perhaps mistakenly, didn't push the discussion any further.

I think if my current company provides a good counter offer then I'll see if the other company is willing to sweeten the deal at all. At that point, I'll probably bypass the recruiter and talk directly to the hiring manager since I have their contact info. I want to do my best to not burn that bridge, if possible.

So you’re dealing with HR at the new company.  HR has basically no authority to do anything.  Their recruiters are pretty much worthless for you on this.  You need to find the hiring manager. 

This happens all. The. Time.  As in I’ve been through this through hundreds of offers.  Go find the decision maker. 


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[2Cent]

You never know how good or bad your current job is until you work somewhere else. Every organisation has pros and cons. Working in a different place will help you to grow and that is perhaps more valuable than the money. If the current company doesn't want to promote you from Junior engineer that will hinder you later on. Say in 5 years you want to go for a more senior role you'll not even be considered as you're still a junior. As a young person don't aim for comfort, aim for growth.

You now are setting a trajectory for your entire career. If you're at a slow growth path now, you can't suddenly shift to high growth later. People want to invest in their stars, not the stragglers. Just look at the 40+ mediors that are there in your company. They will be passed over for the younger star employees.

So if they give a counter offer, please ask about future growth options. Only consider it if they promise believable path to the next promotion and good projects that you can learn from as opposed to doing more or less the same work. That will also help convince them that you will not leave in a few months anyway.

Final thought: If they are really in a bind, you could negotiate with your current employer to drop the study fees if you delay starting at your new job for a month or so.

[ncornilsen]

I accepted a counter offer 6 years ago, and still work there. I've gotten fair raises and a big promotion since.  I am more worried about my big promotion being a layoff liability than almost leaving, as I'm paid the most in our department by a significant margin.

It also helps that almost every single person who was involved in getting me to stay has left since, so now I'm just the guy who's been here forever. They probably snicker about how I must not be getting paid well since I've never left... a false perception which suits me fine.

[bbates728]

I really liked what @FIRE 20/20 had to say, especially since it was the opposite of what I came into this thread thinking. They may have just changed my mind on that (assuming you trust the employer and your manager/team).

Also, looking at your compensation profiles, I don't see that the new employer would be all that much better. You say that you get paid OT that accounts for roughly 10% additional salary. That would put your comp at $77ish, right? So are you really leaving a company you already know and like for $3k bump? Factor in that you have a very nice PTO package at the current place and your bonus doesn't have a vesting schedule and I really think you should look at any opportunity provided to stay at the current employer.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for job hopping out of jobs you either dislike or are seriously under paying you, but this doesn't seem to be the case. Either way, congrats on setting yourself up in a position between two good options!

[RyanAtTanagra]

This degree of unanimity is rare if not unheard of here! I'm just going to add another data point: when my employer had lay-offs, a number of high-performers were let go: they had recently accepted counter-offers (I know that they had resigned). Those that were paid above their level were also let go, but that's a different story... Point being when the executioner comes it pays to represent "loyalty" and "value": that 19% raise quickly evaporates while you're out of work.

Sorry but I think this is horrible advice.  Be loyal and forgo raises in case there are layoffs?  That's the same as saying 'stay in all cash, you'll be happy when the market crashes'.  Not sure where you mean by 'here' that it's unheard of, but everyone in the bay area moves around for better salary.  There's no such thing as 'loyalty', as there shouldn't be, because there's no such thing as employer/corporate loyalty to their employees.

[tawyer]

This degree of unanimity is rare if not unheard of here! I'm just going to add another data point: when my employer had lay-offs, a number of high-performers were let go: they had recently accepted counter-offers (I know that they had resigned). Those that were paid above their level were also let go, but that's a different story... Point being when the executioner comes it pays to represent "loyalty" and "value": that 19% raise quickly evaporates while you're out of work.

Sorry but I think this is horrible advice.  Be loyal and forgo raises in case there are layoffs?  That's the same as saying 'stay in all cash, you'll be happy when the market crashes'.  Not sure where you mean by 'here' that it's unheard of, but everyone in the bay area moves around for better salary.  There's no such thing as 'loyalty', as there shouldn't be, because there's no such thing as employer/corporate loyalty to their employees.

It's not advice. To be clear, so that others aren't misled by the false equivalencies presented:
* I didn't say forgo raises. I said be aware of whether or not you represent a good investment or not to your employer. Consider that in the context of your time horizon of continued employment. It's like saying "have a year's worth of expenses in cash, you'll be happy when the market crashes". If you plan to leave in six months anyway, gouge away.
* By "here" I mean this thread: everyone up to that point, myself included, said "do not accept the counter offer". As for the Bay Area, the best performers don't actually move around that much, it's only the one's that think they are the best.
* I agree with the comment about loyalty, in theory. In practice it is the fool's choice to broadcast it: the best internal opportunities never go to employees that management thinks are "flighty".

[mspym]

This was discussed in a corporate workshop I was in years ago - it takes external hires 2 years to get to the level of corporate knowledge of internal hires, it takes seven years for internal hires to get the pay of external hires. At which point in the workshop I made a mental note that loyalty was for suckers, then went on to polish up my cv and got a job elsewhere with a 25% raise. And then I did it again 2 years after that, another 25% raise.

[zolotiyeruki]

I'll try to sum up the differences:

Pros for new job:
--higher profit sharing/employee stock (+$4k)
--higher base salary (+$10k)
--opportunity for growth (?)
--less bureaucracy

Pros for old job:
--overtime (+$7k)
--one week more PTO (+$1400)
--9/80 schedule
--it's a known quantity, and you enjoy it
--tuition reimbursement ($9,100 one-time)

It sounds like jumping ship would net you a $5,600/year raise, which makes the tuition payback closer to two years, and considerably more than that once you subtract taxes from the raise.

I found myself in a very similar situation about a year ago.  I had a job offer with a company that sounded fascinating, in a desirable location, for a bit more than I was currently making.  Before I accepting the offer, I gave my my current employer an opportunity to counter (at their request), and they beat the offer I had by a fair margin.  I chose to stay, and I think it's been the right decision.

[A Fella from Stella]

....................
1. Do you really want to work somewhere knowing that they had extra money to give you but held out just because they thought you'd accept less? That doesn't seem like an org that is happy about rewarding high achievers.

2. Once your management team knows you have almost left before, it would follow as human nature that you will be pegged differently moving forward.

The above is just my opinion obviously, but I see no good out of you staying at an company where you already initiated a break up.

Excellent feedback

[mistymoney]

This was discussed in a corporate workshop I was in years ago - it takes external hires 2 years to get to the level of corporate knowledge of internal hires, it takes seven years for internal hires to get the pay of external hires. At which point in the workshop I made a mental note that loyalty was for suckers, then went on to polish up my cv and got a job elsewhere with a 25% raise. And then I did it again 2 years after that, another 25% raise.

Oooh! This is very interesting information!!

I'm sure it varies alot by company and industry, but likely some type of similar metric everywhere.

[HydroJim]

Thank you all for your advice and perspectives. Some people mentioned negotiating further/harder, but the fact is my industry is constrained a bit by the US government and, in my new role, I am pushing the upper end of what any reasonable person would give someone of my age/experience. Unfortunately, skills/ability isn't much of a factor when the government pays based on years of experience and degree(s) obtained. Of all my known near peers and acquaintances, I am now the highest compensated by a decent margin.

Here is the follow up:

I took the outside offer and resigned from my old company. My immediate supervisor and mentor made efforts to get me a 20% raise and a promotion but, in the end, it was futile. Off the bat, the company absolutely would not approve a promotion (They cited policy and time in grade. It's funny because 4 months from now, in 2020, it would not be a problem???). Even without the promotion, I might have stayed with just the raise, but it ended up going 3 levels above my supervisor and getting denied by a VP due to the "current financial situation." (Yet, we were recording record revenue, etc.)

I can't say I'm surprised by the behavior of a large corporation, but it's rather astounding to me companies that act this way function or make profit. I understand there is a desire to remain competitive and everyone is replaceable, but when absolute dimwits who do nothing are getting paid what I was asking and multiple senior leaders are vouching for me, I can't fathom why you wouldn't pay the market rate for a valued employee.

But, I guess that's not my problem...

So, on to the new company and I'm always welcome back at the old company. The old company hasn't come asking for a tuition reimbursement back pay yet, but I assume they will want that eventually... But, there is hope they'll just forget about it.

At the new company, I do in fact have overtime authorized for the foreseeable future so that helps shorten the break-even time on the tuition reimbursement. All-in-all, I'm making about 18% more overall compensation and the promotion sets me up for greater/faster growth in the future to make even more money.

It's way too early to make any judgement about the new company but, no red flags yet...

In conclusion, a happy ending overall.

[Car Jack]

This is a happy ending and one without peril hanging around the next corner.

You mentioned military and degrees.  You might want to take night/online courses and work towards the next level.  I know a little about mil contractors and that to go from one level to the next, years might not even be enough but the degree can push you upwards.  Worth thinking about anyways.

I've been in your situation (non mil) and have gone both ways.  Staying and leaving.  But when I stayed, I did so in a good hiring market, knowing I'd be able to find something else.  I think the only safe way to stay is to hire a lawyer and have a contract drawn up.  Perhaps 3 years as an iron clad "no termination without paying out those years" kind of thing so if they do what lots of big companies do (they don't fire you, they hire a replacement and then make your life miserable....been there), you could slack off and they'd have to pay you to get rid of you.

[norajean]

You were right to leave under the circumstances as they did not *really* want to keep you at the required terms.  I was in a similar situation many years ago but the megacorp ponied up on my demands (both financial and otherwise) so I felt obliged. Still around and glad I stayed as the company I was looking at imploded a while after.

[mm1970]

It is a happy ending, and when I read your pay grade (0-2 years eng and 3-8 years eng), I would have said GO.

I'm an engineer, and I've managed many junior engineers.  If a company doesn't have a method for giving you a 15-20% "bump" at the 2-3 year point, LEAVE. 

I've counseled many of my employees to do this, and at later companies, I've fought hard to get big-ass raises to my top performers.  Man, I fought for MONTHS.  It worked but it was EXHAUSTING.

[magnet18]

Every situation is different, but if you've asked for money and been denied, now leaving for money, I'd definitely not take the counter offer, as others have said, you can come back in a few years if you leave on good terms and decide to.  I work in a small city with 3 main engineering employeers, and it's not uncommon to see people rotate in and out between them, usually taking a raise each time.


But there are exceptions to the "don't take the counteroffer" baseline, you know the people you work with and what the culture is, only you can make that call. 

It's not unheard of for people where I work to put in a 2 weeks saying they're moving to X city for Y reason, and get a counter offer saying they can keep working remotely from there, which they accept with no backlash.

[Prodigal Daughter]

I don't know. Maybe it depends on the industry? My SIL literally made massive career and income gains at the bank she worked at because every time a different bank would recruit her, her current employer would counter offer because they really wanted to keep her.

I left a job I loved a few months ago for more money. The new job and organization is fine, but I'm bored and not very challenged/busy. However, I'm trying to remind myself that I'm only three months in so it will pick up. In the meantime, it is giving me time to get a few personal projects done because the new job is super flexible about remote work and that is something I definitely missed! Pros and cons at all places...as long as you can find a place where the cons don't outweigh the pros, then I think you're doing alright.