Poll

New numbers for those needing less than 25k in retirement.  What is your barebones per year amount needed?

Less than 5k
0 (0%)
Less than 7k
1 (1.1%)
Less than 10k
7 (7.6%)
Less than 13k
5 (5.4%)
Less than 15k
9 (9.8%)
Less than 18k
16 (17.4%)
Less than 20k
12 (13%)
Less than 25k
42 (45.7%)

Total Members Voted: 89

Author Topic: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement  (Read 5336 times)

heybro

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POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« on: May 21, 2016, 12:22:47 AM »
For all those cool kats that only need 8k per year (probably by owning their house,townhouse, whatever outright), even though you only need, say 8k or 12k or whatever, what number will you actually use for your retirement number and WHY?

tarheeldan

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2016, 05:37:30 AM »
20k *without* owning home.

forummm

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2016, 07:25:53 AM »
If the ACA stays the same and we paid off our house, we could consistently do under 25k even with vacations and occasional home repair costs. But probably wouldn't choose to go much lower than that. And this is for 3 (and probably 4 or more) people. Even ERE Jakob was actually spending about $16k on the two of them--he just didn't like to count his wife's spending in the tally.

Vagabond76

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2016, 08:23:01 AM »
$25k ain't gonna pay my taxes in retirement.

Retire-Canada

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2016, 08:48:34 AM »
I'll need $21K/yr with mortgage in FIRE and $17K/yr without a mortgage. This is USD at the current CAD exchange rate.

These amounts cover my basics and are post-tax.  I'd like another $5K - $7K for luxury stuff/travel, but that's not essential and can be adjusted depending on market returns.

BlueMR2

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2016, 08:54:43 AM »
If we stripped all the extras out of the budget, we could do 18k/yr.  Certainly not desirable, but that covers our "needs".  Planning on 32k (all number will vary based on inflation of course, just using "today" dollars here)...

redbird

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2016, 05:06:20 PM »
I use 24k/year now, and that's with renting. That's not absolute barebones though. Fun money is built into that budget.

I plan to buy a house in cash in a few years, so that'll lower the amount I need significantly.

bacchi

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2016, 05:23:37 PM »
I voted <$18k for 2 people as the minimum amount. That's WITH a house but the tenants in the other half will cover the PITI.

That $18k is taking what we spend now, adding the corresponding ACA subsidies, and then excluding work-related expenses (maybe going down to one car).  If we add some travel, it'll go up. We're planning on $30k.


Zikoris

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2016, 05:47:25 PM »
Right now we spend 18K on all spending other than travel, and 8-9K on travel (due to doing it in the most expensive, least efficient method due to the realities of full time jobs). We plan to merge our travel with our lifestyle post-retirement, doing things like spending several months in one place and renting an apartment, etc. So that would be under 20K presumably, because we intend to spend a lot of time in some pretty cheap places that we love - Mexico, eastern Europe, Asia, etc. 20K is honestly probably a lot more than we'd actually need.

ozbeach

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2016, 05:50:47 PM »
I voted $15K. I'm a single household, with mortgage paid off.

For the last few years I have come in at under AU$20K (which is 15K at a 0.75 exchange rate). On that basis I'm FI now, but building buffer up to to AU$25K per year (18.75K).

Cannot Wait!

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2016, 06:50:32 PM »
For all those cool kats that only need 8k per year (probably by owning their house,townhouse, whatever outright), even though you only need, say 8k or 12k or whatever, what number will you actually use for your retirement number and WHY?

I picked Less than 25k because I quit my job (it was killing me) and now I HAVE TO make it work!

Plus I know what makes me happy - reading a book in my hammock, kayaking, hiking... free stuff.

yyc-phil

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2016, 09:13:34 PM »
Our bare-bone budget is under $12,000, with a paid off house and no personal debt. At that level, it means hanging out on our little island paradise doing a number of local free activities such as kayaking, gardening, hiking, biking, camping, surfing, etc. So if worst came to worst, we'd still be able to live a pretty decent and comfortable lifestyle on social security (CPP and OAS). For the next 20 years after FIRE, we hope to spend 4-6 months a year abroad in SE Asia, Japan, South/Central America, and parts of Europe so i have budgeted about $8K for frugal travel once a year.

SpareChange

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2016, 11:27:40 AM »

Tyn

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2016, 05:50:57 AM »
Mine is $17k based on current living expenses which are not bare-bones and include renting in a reasonably HCOL area.  I probably won't need that much (I won't stay in this location to retire), but it works for a ball-park figure for the time being.  Once I've got more saved and an idea of where I want to retire to I'll re-evaluate.

jim555

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2016, 04:35:13 PM »
My bare bones number is 14K.

tarheeldan

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2016, 05:14:10 AM »
20k *without* owning home.
For those of you who rent fairly cheaply how do you plan to off set ever rising rents over your long retirement years? Will your retired income be able to keep pace? I live in a very HCOL area (coastal SoCal) where rents are very high and have risen a lot over the last few decades. Since I own and my housing expenses are fairly fixed (inclyding prop taxes) I don't worry much about my housing future like I might as a renter.
a. 4% rule accounts for inflation
b. cheap rent (1-2 br apt) vs buying SFH = more assets in the market. The $X tied up in home equity are likely to only keep up with inflation.
c. Plan early geo-arbitrage to build stronger safety margin
d. Can always buy if great deal pops up

andy85

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2016, 06:05:56 AM »
18k (includes mortgage of $560/mo)
11k without mortgage

But that would be true barebones...like ZERO extra spending. Just food, electricity, water...and even luxuries like cell phone, gas, car insurance, and car maintenance.

jim555

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2016, 07:05:41 AM »
20k *without* owning home.
For those of you who rent fairly cheaply how do you plan to off set ever rising rents over your long retirement years? Will your retired income be able to keep pace? I live in a very HCOL area (coastal SoCal) where rents are very high and have risen a lot over the last few decades. Since I own and my housing expenses are fairly fixed (inclyding prop taxes) I don't worry much about my housing future like I might as a renter.
The rents in my area have gone crazy.  1br went from $1250 to $1600 in 3 years.  The price of my condo went from 180k to 235k in the same time period.
The major reason why I bought was to lock in my cost structure prior to FIREing.

Brokenreign

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2016, 10:11:17 AM »
I'm budgeting about $24k cdn for two people, no kids, house and land owned. I think it's a little easier to retire with less (and still have peace of mind) in Canada due to the more favorable health care situation.

I plan to practice a barbell strategy in that we'll have a largely self sufficient owned house and land in interior BC (low COL and favorable growing conditions) and have all remaining assets in stock indexes.

Retire-Canada

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2016, 11:18:25 AM »
I think it's a little easier to retire with less (and still have peace of mind) in Canada due to the more favorable health care situation.

^^^ this definitely helps. Crisis care is covered. There are lots of what if's that are not covered, but I don't worry about the worst case scenario medically. If I did I would never be able to retire because health care costs can eat my $$ faster than I could ever make them and save them if I were to be really unlucky.

tarheeldan

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2016, 11:55:22 AM »
20k *without* owning home.
For those of you who rent fairly cheaply how do you plan to off set ever rising rents over your long retirement years? Will your retired income be able to keep pace? I live in a very HCOL area (coastal SoCal) where rents are very high and have risen a lot over the last few decades. Since I own and my housing expenses are fairly fixed (inclyding prop taxes) I don't worry much about my housing future like I might as a renter.
The rents in my area have gone crazy.  1br went from $1250 to $1600 in 3 years.  The price of my condo went from 180k to 235k in the same time period.
The major reason why I bought was to lock in my cost structure prior to FIREing.
I'm in coastal SoCal and rents here are crazy high too - and have greatly increased over the last 30 or 40 year time frame many FIREees would have... Of course if I was renting I wouldn't have stayed here and paid that much but just saying.

I hear you, some markets would mean having to bail if rents rose too much (which is easier renting), but if you really wanted to stay there you might run the math and switch strategies and buy. Moreover, these specific, largely coastal, markets are not the rule but the exception:




SpareChange

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2016, 12:00:00 PM »
20k *without* owning home.
For those of you who rent fairly cheaply how do you plan to off set ever rising rents over your long retirement years? Will your retired income be able to keep pace? I live in a very HCOL area (coastal SoCal) where rents are very high and have risen a lot over the last few decades. Since I own and my housing expenses are fairly fixed (inclyding prop taxes) I don't worry much about my housing future like I might as a renter.
The rents in my area have gone crazy.  1br went from $1250 to $1600 in 3 years.  The price of my condo went from 180k to 235k in the same time period.
The major reason why I bought was to lock in my cost structure prior to FIREing.
I'm in coastal SoCal and rents here are crazy high too - and have greatly increased over the last 30 or 40 year time frame many FIREees would have.  I bought my house years ago when they were cheaper, and if I was renting a similar place (not that I would) I wouldn't be have been able to FIRE. Even if I had invested the difference between rent vs. mortgage and all the housing related expenses I still would have been priced out of the rental market around here long ago as I don't think investments would have kept pace (especially since I FIREd shortly before 2008 - OUCH! Able to ride that out as my total housing expenses where only about $300/month.  If I was renting a similar place (approx. $2500 - $3000/month for an old 1950's 1000 sf house in a working class 'hood) and my investments tanked badly I would have been SOL. My house dropping value as it did for awhile by around 50% didn't effect me at all. Of course if I was renting I wouldn't have stayed here and paid that much but just saying.

I think it just depends on the real estate market you're accustomed to. I've never bought a home, and don't have any particular plans or desires to, though I'm open to it if the numbers strongly make sense at some point. I use a rather detailed rent/buy calculator from time to time, and it's never come back as being favorable for me to buy. For reference, I currently rent a studio apt built in the late 80's in a pretty good part of town for $568. 

TheOldestYoungMan

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2016, 12:27:13 PM »
For all of it the key component is flexibility.  If you absolutely have to stay in the same spot then you do have potential exploding costs of rent to contend with.  Houston, and I imagine anywhere within an 8 hour drive of New Orleans, saw rent double after katrina.  It was a relatively tight market that suddenly saw a housing shortage.  If you couldn't handle the doubling of your base rent expense, wouldn't move to a cheaper area nearby, you'd have to move to a cheaper area farther away.

Another option would be buying.

To me, there's no increase to stability by buying (although I did that) because to the extent housing prices got very high in my area I'd end up cashing it out and moving to a lower CoL area (of course, Satan's armpit isn't nearly as nice as SoCal).

The advantage to owning that I see is that to the extent your cost structure changes it is usually for a good reason.  Renting it always seemed like the rent would go up and there was no explanation other than the landlord knew he could probably get away with it because moving sucks.  Everyplace I ever rented saw the price go up by $50.00/yr at least.  If my experience had been different, and I'd rented from people who weren't assholes about it, I would probably still be renting.

I think Cal has that weird property tax thing where it can't be raised beyond a certain point or whatever.  I don't have anything like that, so even as a home owner the property tax increases year over year push my total housing costs up by more than inflation.  I go down and fight it every year, which mitigates the damage, but even with that, since neighbors don't fight it, it only forestalls the inevitable.

runningthroughFIRE

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2016, 12:47:12 PM »
Amount budgeted for with tons of meat on it: $25K
Amount I'm currently living on: $17K
Barebones including rent costs: $14K
Barebones assuming owned house/no rent: ~$7.5K

I voted under 10K, since it seems like previous responders mostly own their homes and do the same.  I pulled the last 6 months of Mint spending data, took out the entertainment category, and multiplied that by two to get my barebones number.  My actual spend is still fluctuating a fair bit, and I think I'm overdoing things on the savings side right now.  I'm a natural hermit, and I've really been feeling like I'm missing out and need to get out more recently, so these numbers are likely to increase soon.  I'm a single male, no kids, living in a 1-bedroom apartment.

arebelspy

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2016, 04:14:18 AM »
IMO:
In the US?  15-20k is an easily doable barebones.
If you're willing to go to a super low COL country, 5-10k is easily doable.


(The latter is assuming you pay for international health insurance, the former is assuming you get subsidies covering a US-based ACA plan.  Both assume your effective tax rate is 0.)
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If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
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deborah

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Re: POLL - for those needing less than 25k/yr in retirement
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2016, 06:30:31 AM »
I am retired and do less than $20k. I use $30k as my budget, because things need maintenance, and the sky might fall. If I'm going to come in at less than that, I can save it or spend it on traveling OS or both. Every year so far I have saved it, but this year has been expensive, with several dream holidays happening in the same timeframe. But who cares? I've saved much more since I retired than I have spent, so I'm still in front.

I have a number of big ticket items that are past normal end of life (hot water service...), so I expect that they will need to be replaced soon (aka the sky will fall soon).