Author Topic: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?  (Read 2181 times)

leevs11

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Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« on: May 19, 2025, 01:27:59 PM »
Most people I know think about saving & investing in one of two ways:

1. Pay yourself first - have a set amount of your paycheck automatically deposited into your investment account and invested. Then you have the remainder to spend on your needs & wants.

2. Invest what's left over - pay your bills and then whatever's left over at the end of the month gets swept into your investing account.

From what I've seen, lots of people new to saving need to do #1 to get them to save in the first place. Then once they've gotten that down, they switch to #2 as they ramp up savings as much as possible.

Which do you prefer? Has it changed over time?


Sibley

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2025, 01:36:56 PM »
If you don't have the discipline, then pay yourself first means you actually do put money into savings rather than accidently spending it.

Morning Glory

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2025, 01:43:57 PM »
It depends on whether your paychecks and expenses are the same amount every time or if they are lumpy. People with monthly pay and regular monthly bills probably have an easier time with #1 and people with commissions/bonuses and annual bills that fall at different times probably like #2.

When working full time I was paid biweekly (not exactly the same amount every time but close) and had some monthly bills and some annual ones. I did a combination of "pay yourself first" into workplace 403b, then "invest what's left over" into spousal IRA, 529's, and taxable accounts (maxing one at a time according to investment order) after paying bills.

chasingthegoodlife

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2025, 02:15:07 PM »
I’ve always done a bit of both - set aside a realistic amount for investments at the start of each pay cycle but also directing leftover amounts and little windfalls towards a definite goal rather than leaving them in my daily spending account to be frittered away on bits and pieces.

In the early days that definite goal was often investments, now its more likely to be travel or a big item for the family.

Zikoris

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2025, 02:17:39 PM »
We've always done left-over and it's worked out fine. We're naturally low spenders and have always saved between half and 2/3 of our income. I missed out on most of the standard consumerist cultural programming by virtue of spending my entire pre-adult life in rural and remote areas with limited/no access to internet or city-person things, and my education was almost entirely by homeschool. My partner grew up wealthy but saw how chill and relaxed my lifestyle was compared to what his family pushed, and immediately converted. To this day I still think most of the things available for purchase are dumb. Not buying stuff I actively think is stupid does not require any discipline or willpower on my part. It would be quite the opposite - if for some reason I needed to be fashionable suddenly, shopping for clothing and makeup and hair things or whatever would fucking suck, let alone the daily effort of actually using the stuff. I don't know what I could ever get in return that would make it worth it, but I think it would be along the lines of a supervillain saying "Put on this makeup every day or everyone you love dies."

Our exact system is sitting down twice a month on my paydays, paying off our credit cards and/or transferring money between us as needed to square up, and putting everything else into investments.

Laura33

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2025, 02:26:03 PM »
It was always a combination of the two.  I had to live for a bit and figure out what my life cost and what savings level worked with that life.  Then I set up the savings as an automatic transfer every month, and tracked expenses to confirm that budget was working and was something I could live with.  Then I adjusted savings/budget accordingly as things changed. 

Where I always got stuck was remembering to incorporate those periodic changes into the longer-term plans.  Like, when my student loans/car loans were paid off, remembering to redirect that money into savings instead of just letting it sit in the bank account.  Or whenever we got a raise, figuring out the after-tax value of that and increasing the monthly VTSAX transfer by that amount. 

Note: this is based on what I actually did, which was well before people were talking about FIRE; I had this general idea that it would be great to be in a position to quit by say 55, and so I wanted to maximize my savings, but the idea of targeting retiring at 40 or 45 was basically a Powerball dream.  I suspect someone who is starting out focused on FIRE will be much more intentional up-front about figuring out what savings level is necessary to hit the target FIRE date, and then adapting the lifestyle to suit that savings level, instead of the more-traditional reverse approach I followed.

RWD

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2025, 02:29:34 PM »
I've always just invested what's left over but we were already not spending all of our income to begin with. If spending = income then something else needs to change first.

The main problem I have with pay yourself first is it doesn't scale well (for financial well-being) with increased income. If I'm netting $50k and putting aside $25k up front that's a solid 50% savings rate. If over the years my income increases to $100k but I never re-evaluate the amount I'm "paying myself" now the savings rate has dropped to 25%. I already paid myself so I can just spend that leftover $75k, right? This is mostly psychological but a very plausible trap with the method.

In contrast, if I focus on how much is being spent then the savings takes care of itself. Using the same scenario, $50k income spending $25k. Same 50% savings rate. Income increases over time with raises and promotions to $100k but by focusing on spending it has stayed flat at $25k. Now we're just naturally at a 75% savings rate!

charis

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2025, 02:31:32 PM »
I don't see the point of #2 unless your income is so low that you don't have much leftover or you make so much more than you spending that it's irrelevant.  Anyone who has a savings goal whether it's FIRE or something else should generally be paying themselves first.

Like is it a discipline issue or did they suddenly start working/making more money?  The actual first step to a savings goal is to track your spending to see how much your expenses are and subtract that from your income to see how much you can theoretically save.  I've always been disciplined at saving money and I always do auto deductions to investments and saving - it's just been a question of how much over the years. 

A person with a spending problem needs to pay themselves first and be diligent about tracking spending.  Someone who is already or close to FI but still working can probably go with #2, but it probably doesn't matter at that point.

VanillaGorilla

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2025, 02:55:39 PM »
It's not all or nothing either. 401k deductions or mortgage payments are by definition a "pay yourself first" situation.

Investing an annual bonus, RSU, ESPP, or other lump sum by definition is "invest the excess".

I've leaned toward manual investing of excess funds over the years. For a while I had some monthly autoinvesting set up, but when expenses got lumpy I turned it off and never really went back. Either your automatic investments are too low and cash piles up over time, or they're too high and you have to cash out investments to pay for, say, house repairs.

IMO if you're young, single, renting, and/or w2-employed then automatic investments are easier, if you have to deal with big medical expenses, house repairs, or lumpy income doing things manually is more straightforward.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2025, 03:27:21 PM by VanillaGorilla »

Freedomin5

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2025, 03:07:43 PM »
We’ve always done both, because we have two incomes and live off one (the lower) income. We pay ourselves first by transferring the larger income to investments every month as soon as we receive it. We live off approximately 50% of the second income and sweep the extra into savings/investment once every few months.

windytrail

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2025, 03:21:03 PM »
I always pay my credit card twice a month and rent once a month FIRST, putting the rest into investments. But I also set a daily CC "budget" (guideline) of $55. If my credit card bill is over $800 then I will investigate why and, if necessary, make a plan to correct course for the next one.

PhilB

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2025, 05:06:17 PM »
It was always both for me. Pay myself first was always the bigger number, but I never wanted to feel that the remaining budget was tight, as I would have found that stressful.  It was much better for my personal mental health to have plenty of slack in the budget, that could then be swept to savings as it built up.

Of course I now have the problem, post-FIRE, of what the hell do I do with the unspent slack now I'm not saving for FIRE any more?

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2025, 04:03:59 AM »
I don't know how many people here budget in the traditional sense. Many people keep close track of their expenses...as close as the most rigid budgeters, but they don't have an envelope of money, if you will, for eating out or whatnot.

I know that we don't do that. We auto set up 401k savings and the like, spend what we feel makes sense, and evaluate periodically if there's more to invest and at the end of the year to see if we've gotten into any bad habits of overspending in certain areas. So, in essence, we pay ourselves first, I guess, when it makes sense for payroll deductions and also last when it makes sense because there's extra money.

Geppetto

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2025, 05:39:36 AM »
For me it was always #2, but at times I've used a strict budget to ensure I'm happy to see what's left over.

Assigning jobs to dollars was always the mentality.

Some dollars are charged with keeping body and soul together for the next few weeks or months.
A few dollars are required for what I think of as "spices and baubles" (movie tickets, a dinner out, a round of golf).
The rest are sent off to the frontier to stave off the barbarian hordes and secure long-term peace and prosperity. (Mostly investments; some charitable giving.) I've always been unhappy when I'm not sending enough troops or ordnance out the front lines.

Raenia

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2025, 06:08:32 AM »
I used to be more #2, but over time I've drifted more toward #1 just for ease of automation. If I know how much I'll have left at the end of the month, why not set it as an automatic transfer so I don't have to think about it? Whenever the account starts to have too high a balance, we invest an extra chunk.

TheFrenchCat

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2025, 06:42:20 AM »
We do a bit of both.  We invest about 20% of our net income automatically into our 401k and HSA (which we just invest and don't use yet).  Then we see what's left over.  We have a lot of lumpy expenses (property taxes, high medical bills until we meet the deductible, savings for college in a 529, house repairs etc.), so we wait to invest what's left over each month till certain times of the year.  This year we've got a potentially expensive house repair coming up, so I'm not sure what we'll have left over this year to invest, but we're comfortable with what we have saved and how we're moving forward.

GuitarStv

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2025, 07:51:44 AM »
I always used #1 as a baseline, then did #2 on the other stuff.  Uninvested money makes me vaguely queasy.

Zikoris

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2025, 12:51:46 PM »
I will say, the inherent problem with the pay-yourself-first mindset is that it completely sidesteps addressing the root cause of why you are otherwise spending all your money in the first place. It can fall under the umbrella of the whole "tricks and tips to save more without having to face the actual problem" school of thought. It's much better to work on deprogramming the consumerism out of yourself entirely.

Obviously this doesn't apply to people who pay themselves first out of convenience (payroll deductions) or for some other reason besides trying to trick themselves.

charis

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2025, 01:08:24 PM »
I will say, the inherent problem with the pay-yourself-first mindset is that it completely sidesteps addressing the root cause of why you are otherwise spending all your money in the first place. It can fall under the umbrella of the whole "tricks and tips to save more without having to face the actual problem" school of thought. It's much better to work on deprogramming the consumerism out of yourself entirely.

Obviously this doesn't apply to people who pay themselves first out of convenience (payroll deductions) or for some other reason besides trying to trick themselves.

I don't think that pay yourself first people are generally trying to trick themselves into not spending all of their money.  Or at least I haven't much of that, anecdotally.  In fact, they are usually the more fiscally minded because they have actually thought about it and applied this approach.  Whereas the consumeristic folks are more like to be spending most of their money and if they happen to have any left over, they try to save it or otherwise throw it at their debt.   (More than half of working adults have credit card debt.)

Paying myself first started with my first full time job, at which point I finally had more than my barebones expenses (rent, gas, groceries) and access to a retirement account.  But my parents started me on a savings account as a child so it wasn't like saving was a new concept, it was drilled in from a young age. 

Zikoris

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2025, 02:42:54 PM »
I will say, the inherent problem with the pay-yourself-first mindset is that it completely sidesteps addressing the root cause of why you are otherwise spending all your money in the first place. It can fall under the umbrella of the whole "tricks and tips to save more without having to face the actual problem" school of thought. It's much better to work on deprogramming the consumerism out of yourself entirely.

Obviously this doesn't apply to people who pay themselves first out of convenience (payroll deductions) or for some other reason besides trying to trick themselves.

I don't think that pay yourself first people are generally trying to trick themselves into not spending all of their money.  Or at least I haven't much of that, anecdotally.  In fact, they are usually the more fiscally minded because they have actually thought about it and applied this approach.  Whereas the consumeristic folks are more like to be spending most of their money and if they happen to have any left over, they try to save it or otherwise throw it at their debt.   (More than half of working adults have credit card debt.)

Paying myself first started with my first full time job, at which point I finally had more than my barebones expenses (rent, gas, groceries) and access to a retirement account.  But my parents started me on a savings account as a child so it wasn't like saving was a new concept, it was drilled in from a young age.

Like I said, this doesn't apply to people who do it for some other reason. But the strategy is definitely presented as pay yourself first... or there won't be anything left afterwards. I think it's worth questioning that narrative and the programming that results in it.

RWD

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2025, 05:43:36 PM »
I will say, the inherent problem with the pay-yourself-first mindset is that it completely sidesteps addressing the root cause of why you are otherwise spending all your money in the first place. It can fall under the umbrella of the whole "tricks and tips to save more without having to face the actual problem" school of thought. It's much better to work on deprogramming the consumerism out of yourself entirely.

Obviously this doesn't apply to people who pay themselves first out of convenience (payroll deductions) or for some other reason besides trying to trick themselves.

I don't think that pay yourself first people are generally trying to trick themselves into not spending all of their money.  Or at least I haven't much of that, anecdotally.  In fact, they are usually the more fiscally minded because they have actually thought about it and applied this approach.  Whereas the consumeristic folks are more like to be spending most of their money and if they happen to have any left over, they try to save it or otherwise throw it at their debt.   (More than half of working adults have credit card debt.)

Paying myself first started with my first full time job, at which point I finally had more than my barebones expenses (rent, gas, groceries) and access to a retirement account.  But my parents started me on a savings account as a child so it wasn't like saving was a new concept, it was drilled in from a young age.

Like I said, this doesn't apply to people who do it for some other reason. But the strategy is definitely presented as pay yourself first... or there won't be anything left afterwards. I think it's worth questioning that narrative and the programming that results in it.

Yup, exactly. The very first link (Investopedia) from a Google search says "Pay yourself first is an investor mentality and phrase popular in personal finance and retirement planning that encourages you to save money before you spend it" and "Many personal finance professionals and retirement planners tout the pay yourself first method as an effective way to ensure you contribute to savings month after month." The implication is that of course you'll be spending everything/anything leftover afterwards.

41_swish

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2025, 09:34:22 AM »
I have only been on my fire journey for 6 months, but the biggest difference I made was automating EVERYTHING. My 401(k) and HSA are deducted from my paycheck so I never have the chance to spend them. My Roth IRA is on a monthly buy order. My brokerage is also on a bi weekly buy order.

I have tried to set things up to have minimal friction. It almost feels like I am in auto-pilot now. I think at the end of every year around the holidays I will sit down evaluate and adjust the contributions each year.

Laura33

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2025, 11:54:25 AM »
I will say, the inherent problem with the pay-yourself-first mindset is that it completely sidesteps addressing the root cause of why you are otherwise spending all your money in the first place. It can fall under the umbrella of the whole "tricks and tips to save more without having to face the actual problem" school of thought. It's much better to work on deprogramming the consumerism out of yourself entirely.

Obviously this doesn't apply to people who pay themselves first out of convenience (payroll deductions) or for some other reason besides trying to trick themselves.

I don't think that pay yourself first people are generally trying to trick themselves into not spending all of their money.  Or at least I haven't much of that, anecdotally.  In fact, they are usually the more fiscally minded because they have actually thought about it and applied this approach.  Whereas the consumeristic folks are more like to be spending most of their money and if they happen to have any left over, they try to save it or otherwise throw it at their debt.   (More than half of working adults have credit card debt.)

Paying myself first started with my first full time job, at which point I finally had more than my barebones expenses (rent, gas, groceries) and access to a retirement account.  But my parents started me on a savings account as a child so it wasn't like saving was a new concept, it was drilled in from a young age.

Like I said, this doesn't apply to people who do it for some other reason. But the strategy is definitely presented as pay yourself first... or there won't be anything left afterwards. I think it's worth questioning that narrative and the programming that results in it.

I think it's because for most people, money is as much psychological as it is math.  Behavioral economics is a "thing" for a reason; if everyone was the Rational Man, who made financially rational decisions at all times, then we wouldn't need commercials to persuade us to buy things we don't need, or this blog to remind us that those things come at the cost of freedom, or Dave Ramsey to yell at people and get them to stop being quite so stupid, or any of a thousand other things. 

For example:  do you pay off debt by tackling the lowest balance first, or the highest interest rate?  Logically, you'd do the latter, as it minimizes interest payments.  But a lot of people have better success by doing the former, because seeing immediate progress on the debt gives them a big boost and helps them stay focused on the long-term goal. 

Or a personal example:  over the years, I have noticed in myself a tendency to be willing to spend more when I feel flush.  Now, the reality is that I am always flush, because I have so much in savings, we haven't had to worry about being able to pay bills in, basically, ever, etc.  But when the checking account is low, I almost subconsciuously revert to poverty mindset -- now I'm shopping at Lidl, making sure to plan menus and eat at home, looking for free things to do on the weekend, etc. 

OTOH, I get a big chunk of my pay on 12/31, and we also tend to be on vacation then, and I have noticed the combination of those two things makes me far likelier to allow myself a splurge on something interesting.  My plan has always been to save the end-of-year money; we don't include it in our budget, and I've always viewed it as a painless opportunity to save extra.  And yet somehow, every year, by the time we get home from vacation, a chunk of that money is gone. 

Now, I'm reasonably intelligent, reasonably self-aware, definitely over-educated in general, and good at math in particular.  So I figure if I'm susceptible to those sorts of seemingly-irrational behaviors, then I have to assume most other people are as well. 

Yes, it is always good to evaluate the messaging we receive and try to figure out why we make mathematically irrational decisions.  But not everyone wants to, not everyone can, and even those of us who spend far too much time navel-gazing can still find ourselves being unwittingly stupid.  So do we jump on ourselves for being stupid, vow to do better, and then repeat the cycle over and over again (like yo-yo dieting, which we all know is super effective)?  Or do we acknowledge that we're not always able (for whatever reason) to make the logical decision, and figure out how to best work around with the imperfection that is us? 

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.  Do the work -- do the analysis, figure out triggers, think about why you think X is good/worthy when it is clearly not to your long-term benefit, etc. etc. etc.  But while you're doing all of that, set up systems that put inertia in your favor -- make it so that you have to actually make a conscious decision to make a bad financial decision.  And "pay yourself first" seems to be a pretty decent guardrail to start with.

SweatingInAR

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2025, 12:12:08 PM »
It's not all or nothing either. 401k deductions or mortgage payments are by definition a "pay yourself first" situation.

Investing an annual bonus, RSU, ESPP, or other lump sum by definition is "invest the excess".
...

I always did this. Max out the 401k, and invest any excess beyond that. My current employer has the features for a Mega Backdoor Roth, so that is a massive firehose of money going into my 401k. The sum of traditional 401k, employer match, and MBR for 2025 is $70k! Sometimes my paychecks aren't high enough for expenses so I move some from high-yield savings into checking, or allow the checking account to run a little lean until the next lumpy bonus or RSU paycheck hits. I also allow the checking account to expand a little bit in the late fall so I can fill my IRA every January.

My first partial year at this employer was epic! I lived off of the signing bonus while funneling the entirety of my paycheck into the 401k to try and fill it up in 6 months of 2021.

Now that I'm practically FI, I don't log in and mess with the excess as often as before. I have enough invested that whether I log in every 2 weeks, every month, or every 3 months to move a few thousand into VTSAX doesn't noticeably move the needle.

BTW, anyone who invests in a taxable account before maxing out their 401k and IRA needs to reread the Investment Order!
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/investment-order/

Louise

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2025, 02:34:17 PM »
#1 got us where we are today.


41_swish

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2025, 10:07:17 AM »
I think we can all get caught up in the number and the math, myself included. Personal finance tends to be more about the behavior. You should still do the math to make sure your large decisions make sense, i.e. cars, housing, food, and investing.

Once you are sure that math is sound, automate everything to minimize friction. If you have to manually enter every buy order and transfer to a savings account, it is a lot easier to skip one. Find what works for you.

diapasoun

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2025, 10:41:52 AM »
I definitely do a combo of both. Mortgage (including extra principal), 401k, 529, and savings are automated every month -- and then what's left over goes into our IRAs/mortgage/savings as we see fit to distribute at the time.

The automation is nice because I know I'm guaranteed a baseline level of savings. I don't have to do anything, it just goes into the right buckets. Especially when I'm busy af, that's incredibly helpful.

Allocating leftovers/excess is nice because it's flexible. I can use my money strategically. Market's significantly down? Oh yeah great time to put that extra $500 into the IRA. We had to buy a new furnace because the old one died three times in one month? Yeah, time to put money back into that house maintenance savings bucket so that we have the cash for the next house catastrophe. IRAs are full and cash savings look good? Great time to pay off some mortgage principal and get that guaranteed 6.5% return. etc etc.

Dicey

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2025, 11:07:29 AM »
Both. I "paid myself first" up to the match (when I wasn't self-employed). Then I made it a game to see how much I could save in taxable accounts. The spillover benefit is that now I have a good balance of pre- and post-tax investments.

Many years ago, I was on a limited job assignment where housing, meals, and incidentals were covered by the company. A couple of weeks in, HR called to ask why I wasn't cashing my paychecks. I told them my goal was not to spend a penny of it while I was away from home. At the end of three months, all of those checks went straight to savings. Did I miss out on a little interest? Sure, but making the goal meant I had more $$ to invest. Oh, and those expenses the company covered? They agreed to let me sub-let a house. By buying groceries instead of eating out, I also saved a bunch of the per-diem money.

Clearly, this was long before the days of automation and Airbnb.

Laura33

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2025, 11:15:57 AM »
Both. I "paid myself first" up to the match (when I wasn't self-employed). Then I made it a game to see how much I could save in taxable accounts.

. . . .

Many years ago, I was on a limited job assignment where housing, meals, and incidentals were covered by the company. A couple of weeks in, HR called to ask why I wasn't cashing my paychecks. I told them my goal was not to spend a penny of it while I was away from home. At the end of three months, all of those checks went straight to savings. . . .  They agreed to let me sub-let a house. By buying groceries instead of eating out, I also saved a bunch of the per-diem money.

My past self is insanely jealous of that three-month stint!

I did something similar.  I set my budget to include savings that was automatically transferred.  I made sure the budget was below my expected income, so I had some wiggle room.  And then I played a game all month to try to come in under budget in all my discretionary spending categories.  Three built-in levels of savings made me happy.

Wish this group had been around back then, because no one else understood my game.  ;-)

41_swish

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2025, 11:14:25 PM »
The only thing I don't like in my finances is my car loan. You can go look at my early post history and see my car exploded. I took out a car loan for used Camry. My payment is $400 a month and I am investing the difference. As much as I want to pay that thing off ASAP, I looked back at my net worth chart over the same time period and it has gone up more that the value of the car and loan so I think I just need to ride it out. I do bump my payment up to $600 a month and will probably just ride this for 2.5 more years and by then it will be paid off.

Loren Ver

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2025, 09:27:13 AM »
Before DH and I retired we did a mix, we weren't big earners, but we would put in the amount we wanted to invest and considered our minimum (a percent that kept going up as we got more efficient).  Then at the end of the month (quarter, year) we would put in any lingering money because having money that wasn't making more money isn't getting us any closer to our goals. 

Similar to what @Zikoris said, you don't need to spend the money just because the money is there.  If you have a goal (like retiring) "spend" the money on that and not some thingy- especially not a thingy that is probably going to be tossed out before you even get to retirement. 

Loren

Sandi_k

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2025, 10:05:01 AM »
I will say, the inherent problem with the pay-yourself-first mindset is that it completely sidesteps addressing the root cause of why you are otherwise spending all your money in the first place. It can fall under the umbrella of the whole "tricks and tips to save more without having to face the actual problem" school of thought. It's much better to work on deprogramming the consumerism out of yourself entirely.

Obviously this doesn't apply to people who pay themselves first out of convenience (payroll deductions) or for some other reason besides trying to trick themselves.

Nah - it's not about "spending all your money." You can ONLY contribute to a 401(k) via payroll deduction. So if you want to save 15-20% or more, by definition you need to do an auto-deduction.

We did both. DH was self-employed for the most part, so my paycheck got the auto-deduction. In February, when we knew what his income was for the previous year, he'd put the max in his SEP-IRA, and then we would both max out Roths, if possible.

Zikoris

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2025, 10:28:30 AM »
I will say, the inherent problem with the pay-yourself-first mindset is that it completely sidesteps addressing the root cause of why you are otherwise spending all your money in the first place. It can fall under the umbrella of the whole "tricks and tips to save more without having to face the actual problem" school of thought. It's much better to work on deprogramming the consumerism out of yourself entirely.

Obviously this doesn't apply to people who pay themselves first out of convenience (payroll deductions) or for some other reason besides trying to trick themselves.

Nah - it's not about "spending all your money." You can ONLY contribute to a 401(k) via payroll deduction. So if you want to save 15-20% or more, by definition you need to do an auto-deduction.

We did both. DH was self-employed for the most part, so my paycheck got the auto-deduction. In February, when we knew what his income was for the previous year, he'd put the max in his SEP-IRA, and then we would both max out Roths, if possible.

Did you somehow miss the last sentence of what I wrote? There are literally four sentences.

41_swish

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2025, 11:18:09 PM »
It is also called personal finance for reason. What works for you may or may not work for someone else and that's okay. One thing I do that I know everyone doesn't like is budgeting down to the penny. Right now I use YNAB and granularly budget every dollar. This allows me to really see just how much I am spending and where I can cut back and where I can spend more. Long term I would like to move to a cash management type system, but while it is just me and my spending is relatively simple, I will be budgeting every dollar.

aloevera1

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2025, 12:20:04 PM »
I think approach 1 works very poorly when you have lumpy expenses. When I was renting, lived car-free lifestyle and my biggest expenses were planned vacations, my expenses were overall very predictable.

However, now that I own a car and a house the probability of lumpy expenses at every month is significantly higher. Running into cash flow issues is not desirable. Holding a big EF to me is also a waste of resources.

So I mostly do option 2 and don't try to automate. It's ok if my savings varies from month to month.

41_swish

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Re: Pay yourself first vs Invest what's left over?
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2025, 11:06:59 PM »
It sounds like you found what works for you so that's great. I also believe that holding an enormous EF can be waste of resources. I think the traditional advice of three to six month of expenses is pretty sound, but I have a friend who holds 50k in cash in a crappy chase bank account because he is too lazy to open an HYSA. He is single with no kids and a cat. I have tried to tell him to at least max out his Roth every year, but he is just too scared of the ups and downs of the financial markets.