Parent who didn't save for retirement

[Julius]

So here's the situation.

My single mom (65) has no retirement plan and a meagre canadian pension plan.
In what capacity do others feel responsible for a financially irresponsible parent.
I could easily help her out, but it will push my retirement indefinitely, and have collateral effects on my wife and child...
Any thoughts?

[Grindin' Away]

This is a tough situation.  My wife and I will probably be in the same boat with my MIL in a few years.

My two cents would be to definitley put you and your immediate family first, don't enable your mom with easy handouts.  She'll learn to live on what she has available.

With that said, she's family, so you don't want her eating catfood underneath a bridge in January, especially in Canada.

So there are the two extremes.  Basically, don't openly offer money where it's easy and she gets use to the handout.  Make her ask those awkward questions, and if she does outright ask for money, have her make a case as to why.  Make her list out expenses, income, debts, assets, and solve that puzzle to see if a handout is necessary.  Then you can make that decision on how much you need to give in order for her stay warm and fed.

[Elaine]

Could you do something that might help her help herself? Like help her find roommates or something? That way she would have a bit of money help, and you'd have the peace of mind of knowing she didn't get a crazy person to rent a room from her. Or maybe help her get some sort of part time work that she could do from home? I don't know what your relationship is but generally having someone move in with you costs less than subsidizing someone's separate lifestyle. If that's possible than maybe you could work out a babysitting or housework trade (i.e. she watches the kid three nights a week and does laundry?)

[bogart]

My single mom (65) has no retirement plan and a meagre canadian pension plan.
In what capacity do others feel responsible for a financially irresponsible parent.

For me, the big issue is why, and to some extent who.  Does your mom not have retirement savings because she devoted her life to raising her kid(s) with the (reasonable) expectation that others were responsible for the financial side of things, only to learn they hadn't met their side of the bargain?  Did decisions she made about how to provide/care for you impede her ability to save?

The "who" -- obviously, we know she's your mom.  Has she been a devoted mother, raising you to the best of her abilities despite whatever shortcomings in the financial-planning and/or -earnings realm(s) she may have?

If the answer to any of those questions is yes, then in your shoes I'd do what I could to help her (including work longer and/or more).  If the answer to all of those questions is no, then I'd be less inclined to do so, but still mindful of how she'd provided for me, of societal expectations, and of the example I'd be setting for my child and, for that matter, spouse. 

[Ottawa]

My single mom (65) has no retirement plan and a meagre canadian pension plan.

Do you know your mom's actual financial numbers?

There are two main sources of government assisted 'pension' in Canada:  OAS and CPP.
Is you mom is eligible for the full amount...which can be determined here with a little personal info : http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/services/pensions/cric.shtml. 

Do you know how much she is actually getting from all sources combined?  Does she have any savings non-reg or otherwise?  Does she have any equity in a house? 

I suppose what I'm asking is...what is her potential revenue stream...it may be more than you think?  We'll start with this...

[Frankies Girl]

I won't be in this position, as my parents were planners and my mother is comfortably retired. My MIL we have no idea, but she's  demanded non-monetary support and been turned down flat (bad history there - husband is still mulling if he ever wants a relationship with her again at this point).


If your mother is asking for your help, then the only way I would consider doing anything is if she lays it all out completely. All of her bills, her debts, her income and pensions - everything must be discussed. Once you see the whole picture, it makes it a little easier to figure out what can be done by her and what you feel comfortable providing. For instance, if she's blowing hundreds every month on cigarettes and lotto, then I'd be much less inclined to do anything (not saying that is this situation, just a for instance).

If she is remotely capable of some kind of work, then she should keep working. If she could live off her pension, but only if she sells her house, car and lives like a monk, then maybe, but that's where the emotional connection and familial responsibility "gray area" kicks in. If you have a close relationship and want to help her out, then there are ways to do so - pay a few of her bills (directly, no cash to her) or otherwise subsidize her to the best of your abilities without endangering your own family's wellbeing.

If the parent was a spendthrift and I had a rocky relationship, then I would not be inclined to help out except as a one time thing if that.

I don't believe that having a blood relationship should make you beholden to a person. The actual interactions means more than blood to me, and if there isn't fondness or even a little respect on both sides, then the "relationship" is purely a matter of coincidence that you're related to said person and that doesn't make you responsible in the least if you're both adults.

[Daleth]

Also, what are your mother's expenses likely to be, and is there any way you can help her reduce them? For instance, she probably doesn't have many good driving years left in her, so she's going to need to live somewhere with good public transport and perhaps services (e.g. free rides for elderly)... if she's not already in such an area, might as well move now and consider selling her car, if she has one. And do you have any way of giving her a place to live, such as building a mother-in-law suite above your garage? If you get along reasonably well, that can work, and assuming they're done well, such additions typically add some value to homes since they add one bedroom and usually also one bath. Another option, of course, if you have a spare room, is putting her in it, but that's more intimate than her having an independent suite with her own fridge etc.

[anastrophe]

I don't have much to contribute as my parents are headed the same way in a few years, but I am appreciating others' advice and hope you come up with a workable plan.

[CommonCents]

I don't believe that having a blood relationship should make you beholden to a person. The actual interactions means more than blood to me, and if there isn't fondness or even a little respect on both sides, then the "relationship" is purely a matter of coincidence that you're related to said person and that doesn't make you responsible in the least if you're both adults.

I understand this regarding a sibling, but for a parent (who actually raised a child), there is always something more than blood there.  They may have made the decision to have the child and the legal obligation to support until 18, but the fact is the parent did feed, clothe and shelter for many years.  So it's tricky.

[rockstache]

And do you have any way of giving her a place to live, such as building a mother-in-law suite above your garage? If you get along reasonably well, that can work, and assuming they're done well, such additions typically add some value to homes since they add one bedroom and usually also one bath.

This is my favorite option by far, and something that I will probably be considering should we ever decide to buy a house. I'm not going to completely tie myself to my mother (who I will probably have to support at some point) financially, but that way I will at least be able to provide shelter and see that she has food, rides etc... 

[Frankies Girl]

I don't believe that having a blood relationship should make you beholden to a person. The actual interactions means more than blood to me, and if there isn't fondness or even a little respect on both sides, then the "relationship" is purely a matter of coincidence that you're related to said person and that doesn't make you responsible in the least if you're both adults.

I understand this regarding a sibling, but for a parent (who actually raised a child), there is always something more than blood there.  They may have made the decision to have the child and the legal obligation to support until 18, but the fact is the parent did feed, clothe and shelter for many years.  So it's tricky.

Right, but in the instance of a parent and child, the child didn't choose to be born, and a parent is required to provide at the very least the basic necessities that a child needs to live. Expecting a child to be beholden to a parent strictly on the basis that they somehow owe the parent for their very life is a slippery slope of guilt and obligation. If there is a good relationship, then those things don't even figure into the equation. You help because you love them, not because you feel beholden to them for your very existence. And a parent that trades on those emotions is very manipulative and selfish.

The only thing an adult owes anyone is to be a responsible, self-reliant person that treats others with basic courtesy and kindness. Any other commitments are purely emotional, and obligation or guilt should not play into those decisions at all (but of course they do).

So I would say that technically helping out a parent that was screwed up and continues to be a screw up shouldn't be seen as something you have to do... but basic kindness would be to help to the extent that you don't put your own security and that of your immediate family in contention.

[totoro]

I would say that you might want to apply some problem solving skills here. You need to understand the numbers and the options.  Low income means there should be subsidies available for housing and assisted living if needed in future.  Your mom might not be able to have a car or trips, but she will have enough for food and shelter in the worst case if things are properly managed.

[Julius]

Thank you everybody.
There is some good advice and opinions.
She is fine for now. I'm just thinking ahead.
I will never let her live under a bridge...

[frugledoc]

When you borrow from your future self by over spending you need to pay back the debt at some point,

[Spudd]

My single mom (65) has no retirement plan and a meagre canadian pension plan.

Do you know your mom's actual financial numbers?

There are two main sources of government assisted 'pension' in Canada:  OAS and CPP.
Is you mom is eligible for the full amount...which can be determined here with a little personal info : http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/services/pensions/cric.shtml. 

Do you know how much she is actually getting from all sources combined?  Does she have any savings non-reg or otherwise?  Does she have any equity in a house? 

I suppose what I'm asking is...what is her potential revenue stream...it may be more than you think?  We'll start with this...

There's also GIS for lower income seniors.

[AJDZee]

That is a tough situation...

I'd say for starters you should help her out as much as possible using the tips/tricks/philsophy you've gained being part of the MMM community. If she's nearing retirement, the boat has probably sailed on the magic of compounding in the market... but a lot can be done be done with the other side of the coin - reducing expenses. Going through her spending, helping her change habits for the rest of her life is BY FAR more helpful than cutting a cheque for $25,000, or throwing money at her every couple months. Even if it's just $100/month you can reduce her spending, that will make a huge difference over time.

I'm doing this with my parents (subtly and slowly). I've made them switch to a cc that gives cash back, got them to lower their cable bill (tried to sell them on streaming+Over-the-air).
In the spring I will start suggesting they walk to get groceries in a cart rather than drive, etc.
(for the record, my parents just retired and I have NO CLUE how they are financially :s  )

I'm sure others on this forum could come up other great suggestions to cut a budget, as someone else has done above.