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Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: Metalcat on October 06, 2019, 10:32:42 AM

Title: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 06, 2019, 10:32:42 AM
I am loathe to say this, but I need a new fancy soup pot.

I cook A LOT, it's a big part of my life. Thanks to wedding gifts and awards at DH's work that can be cashed in for cookware, we have a decent collection of copper and cast iron that we've never had to buy for ourselves.

...but now I need a soup pot.

I batch cook, but my new apartment sized stove doesn't have elements big enough to handle my giant copper pots, so I've started cooking double batches of things in two pots.

I have one soup sized Staub enameled cast iron pot and a decent brand name stainless steel pot about the same size.

Three times this week I've split a recipe between these two pots, identical ingredients, identical amounts, identical cooking process, and THREE DAMN TIMES the recipe comes out of the fancy pot tasting significantly better.
Like...it's not even close.
The flavour, the texture, it's totally different.

I always knew I preferred cooking with my fancy pots, I always noticed that I had to spend less effort fidgeting with adjusting the heat, but until this past week, I would have assumed that any change in flavour would have been a placebo effect of just enjoying the cooking process more.

But nope.
I have two large batches of soup on the stove right now and one tastes cohesive and layered and gorgeous while the other tastes...fine, I guess, but the the texture sucks.

Dammit!!!

Now I need another friggin' enameled cast iron soup pot?
Anyone have a recommendation that won't cost $300 but won't fuck up my food??

Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: GizmoTX on October 06, 2019, 10:39:54 AM
How big does it need to be? Tramontina & Lodge make economical 5 qt Dutch ovens.
If you need bigger, look for an outlet shop for Le Creuset.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Zikoris on October 06, 2019, 10:42:34 AM
Wouldn't the easiest solution just be to cook something else/adjust your meal plans? Like, instead of two pots of soup, one batch of soup in the expensive pot + something else that didn't involve a pot? I also do volume cooking every weekend, and have a very minimalist kitchen where nothing is really replicated, and find that having a variety of different types of dishes in the meal plan helps prevent me from needing extra anything. So some soup, some baked dishes, some stir fries, etc.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 06, 2019, 10:46:13 AM
Wouldn't the easiest solution just be to cook something else/adjust your meal plans? Like, instead of two pots of soup, one batch of soup in the expensive pot + something else that didn't involve a pot? I also do volume cooking every weekend, and have a very minimalist kitchen where nothing is really replicated, and find that having a variety of different types of dishes in the meal plan helps prevent me from needing extra anything. So some soup, some baked dishes, some stir fries, etc.

I could...but years of working out a routine that I enjoy is worth buying a new pot for me.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 06, 2019, 10:46:41 AM
How big does it need to be? Tramontina & Lodge make economical 5 qt Dutch ovens.
If you need bigger, look for an outlet shop for Le Creuset.

At least 6qt, preferably 8qt
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Dicey on October 06, 2019, 10:48:57 AM
It's not a soup pot, it's a tool. Decide what you want, regardless of cost (within reason), then see how you can source it as economically as possible. Youre a smart, logical person. You're going to use it a lot. Don't sweat this purchase.

As to what brand, I have no idea. I would consider weight and where you will store it. Now that I'm in my sixties, I have no interest in dragging heavy pots out of the bottom of the cupboard. I have drawers, and a lazy Susan. I still have to move it from its storage place, to the stove or oven, to the sink, then back to storage. Add the weight of the contents and bleargh, I ust don't use the heavy stuff any more. I know that sounds whiny, but if you're considering a BIFL approach, it's something to keep in mind.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: lizzzi on October 06, 2019, 10:54:04 AM
I make my soup in a slow cooker. I don't like to have things bubbling away on the stove for hours on end when I am outside with the dog so often. Or if I want to simmer something overnight, the slow cooker just seems safer. My "crockpot" for soup is a Hamilton Beach Stay or Go. When I  definitely want to use enameled cast iron, I use my Lodge dutch oven. They run around $35--$50 depending on if you can find a sale. I use it for chili, pot roast, or for occasional artisanal bread. It works just as well as Le Creuset for a lot less money. I had a Le Creuset dutch oven for 20 years--wonderful pot-- but when it finally started to chip, I went with the Lodge.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: englishteacheralex on October 06, 2019, 10:56:39 AM
How cheap is your cheap pot? We have a 6 quart Kirkland dutch oven that we got on sale from Costco for $50 six years ago and I think it works fine. Back when we bought it I didn't know as much about cookware and didn't worry about the fact that the interior of the pot was black. Now I know that light colors on the interior are better so you can judge your fond. But I've still liked the results.

We are on the cusp of this problem, after reading a LOT of America's Test Kitchen recipes (we don't subscribe but do manage to get a lot for free via eBay, friends, and a PBS subscription so we can watch the show (but not the locked episodes). Our nonstick Calpholon pan set is starting to not cut it for us and now we know too much about All-Clad and are lusting.

I'm super stoked to sign up for a thread about expensive cookware, if anyone wants to jump in and broaden this to brands/makes that are awesome for any cookware (not just soup pots).

As far as the fancy soup pot issue--if you're willing to wait and put some effort into a good price, I'm a big fan of Goodwill and setting alerts on Craigslist searches (I have about ten going right now). But sometimes I just get fed up and buy the damn thing I want.

Hey what do you look for in a soup pot? What makes your fancy one so good? Is it Le Creuset or something? Are you talking about a stock pot or a dutch oven? You do know about checking America's Test Kitchen and Wirecutter reviews, right? They always have the best buy option, which is very helpful.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: KBCB on October 06, 2019, 11:16:45 AM
I got a beautiful red enameled cast iron pot at Khols. I had a super coupon and it was on sale with additional percentage off (I think I spent like 40$). It's not that expensive to begin with but it works great and I have had no issues happily cooking in it for almost a year.

https://www.kohls.com/product/prd-3306356/food-network-7-qt-enameled-cast-iron-dutch-oven.jsp?color=Red&prdPV=4
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Jon Bon on October 06, 2019, 11:18:04 AM
Buy whatever you want and damn the torpedo's!

But seriously if this is something that you use regularly to do something as fundamental as feeding yourself it feels liek a halfway decent investment. $300 for a pot is a lot of money, but if it lasts for 15+ years does not sound bad to me.

I take the same approach to my groceries. I buy as many as much decently priced food as I can find. I pretty much ignore the cost of my groceries.  Because doing so prevents me from going out to eat and spending 5x the cost of ingredients on a meal out.

IMO the value proposition is your bowl of soup costs you 50 cents to make. If it prevents you from 10 bowls of $5 Panera soup it is a winner!

Remember we are not on here to save money, we are on here to purse happiness. So if your fancy pot makes soup you love to eat, you should do it.




Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Mmm_Donuts on October 06, 2019, 11:30:53 AM
I cook all my soups in an Instant Pot set to pressure cook. Maybe I don't know what I'm missing (I don't have a Staub or Le Creuset pot) but my soups taste fantastic IMHO! Instant Pots are also great for making the soup stock - I make broth from scratch with chicken bones and basic vegetables in about 2 hours under pressure.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: pk_aeryn on October 06, 2019, 11:41:58 AM
You say you have a new apartment sized stove?  Did you recently move and this came with the place, or did you downgrade stoves? I suppose a new pricey soup pot is less than a new stove, but if you’re going to have to replace a lot of things to fit the new stove, I would consider selling the stove and getting a stove that supports your cooking habits.  Cooking from scratch is so important that I would consider that worth it. If it’s only the soup pot that won’t fit, then ignore this.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 06, 2019, 11:52:20 AM
Thank you everyone for the feedback.
Here are some thoughts in response.

I have an instant pot, but don't love it for soups. I used to use it a lot, but if I have the time, then soups really do taste better on the stove IMO. I have never liked cooking with a slow cooker, I had a Hamilton Beach, but gave it to my mother.

My stainless steel pot is decent quality, about the same caliber as the pots I cooked with in restaurants, so it's not a shitty cheap pot, I just can't get over how much better the recipes are turning out in my fancy cast iron pot.
The finished products even looked worse in the lesser pot.

My cast iron aren't Le Creuset, but Staub, which is essentially identical and just as expensive. I have a soup pot that's enameled inside and out, and a Dutch oven and frying pan that are only enameled on the outside.
The inside enameling is niiiiiiiiiice.

I'm okay spending what I need to get another pot, I was just hoping that some other enameled cast iron expert would weigh in with "this brand is half the price and just as amazing!" or some wishful thinking like that.

Is Panera soup good? Never been, so I wouldn't know. Just curious.

Overall, I think I'm just shocked at the level of difference the damn pot made. I guess I'm off to troll the internet for clearance cast iron.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Zikoris on October 06, 2019, 11:53:44 AM
Wouldn't the easiest solution just be to cook something else/adjust your meal plans? Like, instead of two pots of soup, one batch of soup in the expensive pot + something else that didn't involve a pot? I also do volume cooking every weekend, and have a very minimalist kitchen where nothing is really replicated, and find that having a variety of different types of dishes in the meal plan helps prevent me from needing extra anything. So some soup, some baked dishes, some stir fries, etc.

I could...but years of working out a routine that I enjoy is worth buying a new pot for me.

I'm saving this for an example for next time there's a discussion about how the forums have dramatically changed over the years in terms of spending/consumption patterns.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 06, 2019, 11:58:30 AM
You say you have a new apartment sized stove?  Did you recently move and this came with the place, or did you downgrade stoves? I suppose a new pricey soup pot is less than a new stove, but if you’re going to have to replace a lot of things to fit the new stove, I would consider selling the stove and getting a stove that supports your cooking habits.  Cooking from scratch is so important that I would consider that worth it. If it’s only the soup pot that won’t fit, then ignore this.

It's literally only my two giant copper pots that don't work on my little stove if I need to boil large volumes of liquid.

Yes, the stove came with the place. I otherwise really like the size, but according to online reviews, the stovetop part is pretty wimpy, hence why I'm cooking in two pots instead of one giant pot.

My copper pots are enormous, one looks like a bathtub for cats.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 06, 2019, 12:08:39 PM
Wouldn't the easiest solution just be to cook something else/adjust your meal plans? Like, instead of two pots of soup, one batch of soup in the expensive pot + something else that didn't involve a pot? I also do volume cooking every weekend, and have a very minimalist kitchen where nothing is really replicated, and find that having a variety of different types of dishes in the meal plan helps prevent me from needing extra anything. So some soup, some baked dishes, some stir fries, etc.

I could...but years of working out a routine that I enjoy is worth buying a new pot for me.

I'm saving this for an example for next time there's a discussion about how the forums have dramatically changed over the years in terms of spending/consumption patterns.

I'll take your criticism, but the way I cook already involves juggling 3 recipes at one time, and I cook in the volumes that I do in order to minimize waste and maximize utility of expensive ingredients.

So if I buy a small packet of fresh herbs, it's usually 6 times what a recipe calls for, so I'll often triple that recipe and triple a second recipe that calls for the same ingredient.
Same for buying cheese, which is often much cheaper in larger quantities.

I actually have a program on my laptop where I have cross referenced all of my recipes according to perishable ingredients that can't be bought in small amounts, or are very expensive in small amounts, and I plan a week's worth of cooking around those particular items.

I'm pretty dedicated to spending very little on groceries, so if I've got an excellent system that works with our lives, works with my kitchen, and produces virtually no food waste and keeps per meal costs extremely low while producing consistently delicious food, yep, I'm okay giving myself permission to buy one pot.

I've just...never bought myself a pot before...
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: koshtra on October 06, 2019, 12:19:23 PM
This sort of thing, if you buy top quality used, you (or your heirs) can usually sell it again thirty years later for pretty much the same price, which makes it basically free.

Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: koshtra on October 06, 2019, 12:24:14 PM
Just think of it as the part of your portfolio that some other investor might put in precious metals. "I'm in platinum and Le Creuset, myself."
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: G-dog on October 06, 2019, 01:22:28 PM
WHy do you like the inside enamel so much?  I find it hard to clean (I have a Le Creuset), and also food sticks to it pretty badly.  I also have an electric stove (coiled burners) - which does tend to make hots spots in every cookware I have tried.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 06, 2019, 02:04:26 PM
WHy do you like the inside enamel so much?  I find it hard to clean (I have a Le Creuset), and also food sticks to it pretty badly.  I also have an electric stove (coiled burners) - which does tend to make hots spots in every cookware I have tried.

I find my Staub super easy to clean and very little sticks to it compared to the exposed cast iron, the copper, and the stainless steel.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: mountain mustache on October 06, 2019, 02:08:03 PM
I have a very large Lodge enameled cast iron pot that was gifted to me a few years ago, and I love it! I think they run about $60-$80. My mom has a Le Crueset of around the same size, and honestly I cannot tell the difference in using them. I love how easy the enameled inside is to clean, and I do find my food just cooks better in general when I use the Lodge pot, vs some of my heavy bottomed stainless pots. I grew up also using a non enameled cast iron pot, and I do miss that for some things when you want a really good browned texture from something...I find the enamel sometimes makes that harder to accomplish.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: noplaceliketheroad on October 06, 2019, 02:10:39 PM
Do you have a Le Creuset outlet near you? Often in the back section of the store they have a clearance/sale section, which is all the same products as the front section of the store, but in the last season's color. Which since it's Le Creuset is usually still a beautiful color. I've also had good luck with high end cookware on ruelala, they also have out of season color Le Creusets fairly often. Not sure about Staub. Good luck! I also totally think nice cookware is worth it!
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 06, 2019, 02:17:41 PM
I have a very large Lodge enameled cast iron pot that was gifted to me a few years ago, and I love it! I think they run about $60-$80. My mom has a Le Crueset of around the same size, and honestly I cannot tell the difference in using them. I love how easy the enameled inside is to clean, and I do find my food just cooks better in general when I use the Lodge pot, vs some of my heavy bottomed stainless pots. I grew up also using a non enameled cast iron pot, and I do miss that for some things when you want a really good browned texture from something...I find the enamel sometimes makes that harder to accomplish.

Excellent! I'll check out Lodge.
Thank you!

Agreed about the naked cast iron, nothing beats it for searing. That's actually what's so nice about the enamel for soups and stews, it's oddly difficult to burn things, so I don't need to be nearly as attentive, I can trust it to stay the temperature I want it to stay at.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: norajean on October 06, 2019, 03:00:50 PM
Sounds like you need a stove that fits your pots. Or worse, an apartment.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 06, 2019, 03:40:42 PM
Sounds like you need a stove that fits your pots. Or worse, an apartment.

Or just a new pot...
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Cranky on October 06, 2019, 04:59:29 PM
I like the enameled cast iron I bought at Aldi ($25) pretty equally with the Le Creuset I bought at the thrift store ($10.) Nice, but waaaay heavy.

I don’t think you have to go top of the line.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: OtherJen on October 06, 2019, 05:06:57 PM
Another vote for Costco enameled cast iron, if you can find one. The store doesn't always stock them, but this is the most likely time of year to find one. I think ours was $70, maybe 10 years ago.

I haven't tried Lodge for enameled pieces, but we have a few of their regular cast iron pans and they're good quality and very solid.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Dicey on October 06, 2019, 05:09:04 PM
I'll take your criticism, but the way I cook already involves juggling 3 recipes at one time, and I cook in the volumes that I do in order to minimize waste and maximize utility of expensive ingredients.

So if I buy a small packet of fresh herbs, it's usually 6 times what a recipe calls for, so I'll often triple that recipe and triple a second recipe that calls for the same ingredient.
Same for buying cheese, which is often much cheaper in larger quantities.

I actually have a program on my laptop where I have cross referenced all of my recipes according to perishable ingredients that can't be bought in small amounts, or are very expensive in small amounts, and I plan a week's worth of cooking around those particular items.

I'm pretty dedicated to spending very little on groceries, so if I've got an excellent system that works with our lives, works with my kitchen, and produces virtually no food waste and keeps per meal costs extremely low while producing consistently delicious food, yep, I'm okay giving myself permission to buy one pot.

I've just...never bought myself a pot before...
You are a total badass! I bow down to your awesomeness. I am not worthy ;-)
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 06, 2019, 05:10:19 PM
I don't have Aldi here and I've never seen any enameled cast iron at Costco except for a small selection of Le Creuset, but I'll keep an eye out.

Googling Lodge pots now
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 06, 2019, 05:18:25 PM
I'll take your criticism, but the way I cook already involves juggling 3 recipes at one time, and I cook in the volumes that I do in order to minimize waste and maximize utility of expensive ingredients.

So if I buy a small packet of fresh herbs, it's usually 6 times what a recipe calls for, so I'll often triple that recipe and triple a second recipe that calls for the same ingredient.
Same for buying cheese, which is often much cheaper in larger quantities.

I actually have a program on my laptop where I have cross referenced all of my recipes according to perishable ingredients that can't be bought in small amounts, or are very expensive in small amounts, and I plan a week's worth of cooking around those particular items.

I'm pretty dedicated to spending very little on groceries, so if I've got an excellent system that works with our lives, works with my kitchen, and produces virtually no food waste and keeps per meal costs extremely low while producing consistently delicious food, yep, I'm okay giving myself permission to buy one pot.

I've just...never bought myself a pot before...
You are a total badass! I bow down to your awesomeness. I am not worthy ;-)

Lol, it's a learned skillset from running a kitchen. I lost an avocado two years ago and I'm still not over it.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Frankies Girl on October 06, 2019, 05:18:54 PM
May I suggest spending a few weeks maybe attempting to win a fancy pot on Goodwill's site? Could do this for a bit as you look around for other options anyway. Maybe you're get lucky and win a great fancy one. :)

Right now there are several promising Le Creuset that could be used for stovetop/soup up there for $20-40 so far.

www.shopgoodwill.com
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 06, 2019, 05:19:59 PM
I'm in Canada, not sure I'm eligible.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(ce
Post by: Hadilly on October 06, 2019, 05:22:49 PM
I have a 6 qt (maybe larger?) all clad chef’s pan that I love for soup. I highly recommend it. I do t know that they still make that big size, but well worth tracking down.

I also make a lot of soup.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Frankies Girl on October 06, 2019, 05:25:49 PM
I'm in Canada, not sure I'm eligible.

awwww sorry, I missed your location. But are there any decent ones up on Canadian Ebay or any other charity sites that may be safe to use/bid on?



And I love to cook and do it every day (most meals), and totally understand wanting quality cookware.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 06, 2019, 05:31:49 PM
K, so the internet tells me that Lodge, Amazon Basics, and Crock Pot all make quality enameled cast iron pots for about $70.

It will be interesting to see if there's any difference compared to a $400+ pot.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: G-dog on October 06, 2019, 05:57:57 PM
Lodge consistently has high ratings, not sure about the others. America’s Test Kitchen may have done a test of enameled cast iron cookware.

I tried getting a cheap set (on sale $124 for 5 pieces). Geez it was SO HEAVY for it’s size, and in one use some of the enamel came off of the bottom (and stuck to the heating element). Luckily I was able to return it. Oh, and the food stuck to it (I do think my stove is part of the problem here).
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: chicagomeg on October 06, 2019, 08:18:49 PM
The Wirecutter endorses the Lodge pot as well. It's my favorite review site: https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-dutch-oven/
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: seattlecyclone on October 06, 2019, 10:00:26 PM
Never tried their enamel stuff, but we use our Lodge non-enameled cast iron skillets pretty much every day. So cheap and durable.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Linea_Norway on October 07, 2019, 05:06:51 AM
It sounds weird that there is such a difference in taste, depending on the pot used. Maybe the stainless steel gives off some elements to the soup? Should not be the case, though.

We don't have any cast irons posts, because I don't like the weight of them. And now I don't know if they would work on induction. So I don't know what we are missing out on. We can make soups that I think work out nicely with texture, but have nothing to compare it to.

I would look into the second hand pots for a good quality pot. Maybe I'll look for one myself next time I visit a flea market. Need to bring along a magnet to check for induction compatibility...
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Eowyn_MI on October 07, 2019, 06:27:47 AM
I'm in Canada, not sure I'm eligible.

awwww sorry, I missed your location. But are there any decent ones up on Canadian Ebay or any other charity sites that may be safe to use/bid on?


I bought a Le Creuset dutch oven off of Ebay (American) years ago.  I think that I got the 7.25 quart size for ~$250.  It is my favorite pot to cook in and I use it all the time.  I don't know of any cheaper options that work the same as Le Creuset but here's another vote for trying to find an expensive pot on the used market.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: chaskavitch on October 07, 2019, 06:31:10 AM
I didn't know goodwill had an online presence and now it's going to be a disaster.

We have a Lodge enameled dutch oven, and I like it well enough.  I've never had a Le Creuset, so I can't compare, but the Lodge has held up for a few years now, no chipping or problems.  My Lodge skillets are HEAVY compared to an older unbranded one my MIL gave me, though, so I don't know if the Lodge dutch oven is significantly heavier than a more expensive brand.  Apparently that's not an important spec to have on your website when you sell cast iron.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 07, 2019, 06:34:01 AM
My cast iron all work on induction, my copper pots don't.

The difference was significant, not just in the taste, but moreso the texture and the appearance. I know it has to do with the uniformity and consistency of the cooking temperature, I just didn't expect it to have that much of an effect.

Thanks everyone for the feedback re: Lodge, now I'm trying to figure out why Lodge has some pots that are $60 and nearly identical pots over $200...hmm
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: PMG on October 07, 2019, 06:57:13 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KDfNwXXESiU

Here’s the Test Kitchen comparison video.

We went down this rabbit hole last winter.  Came to the conclusion that the $300 pots might be better than the $70 pots by just a little bit, but not a couple hundred dollars.

In the end we decided to just keep using what we already have, though I would snap up an upgrade if it showed up at a thrift shop.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: elliha on October 07, 2019, 07:08:29 AM
Can't you just mix the two soups so you are not able to tell the difference. If you only had the cheaper pot I am sure that soup would be fully acceptable to you. I have a mixture of expensive and cheap and I have never ever noticed any difference in taste even when cooking in two pots so I am slightly skeptical if this is really a thing or confirmation bias of some kind.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 07, 2019, 07:30:51 AM
Can't you just mix the two soups so you are not able to tell the difference. If you only had the cheaper pot I am sure that soup would be fully acceptable to you. I have a mixture of expensive and cheap and I have never ever noticed any difference in taste even when cooking in two pots so I am slightly skeptical if this is really a thing or confirmation bias of some kind.

You're entitled to your skepticism.

However, I didn't say that expensive was better than cheap. I said that for the recipes I'm making, cast iron seems to be much better than stainless steel, at least on my stove.

It just so happens that all of my cast iron pieces are extremely expensive gifts I've received, and I'm asking if there are cheaper cast iron options that are just as good as my enameled Staubs.

As for mixing the two batches. The lesser batch was already acceptable, but the better batch was exceptional, and I would rather keep it that way. It's not like I threw out the lesser batch, I'm just considering buying a new pot and thought I would ask the smart people here for advice since I realized I've never bought a single pot.

Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Omy on October 07, 2019, 07:36:35 AM
Thinking outside the box...why not buy a commercial grade single burner from a restaurant supply site and keep using your big soup pot that you love?
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 07, 2019, 08:04:48 AM
Thinking outside the box...why not buy a commercial grade single burner from a restaurant supply site and keep using your big soup pot that you love?

I still use the giant copper pots on the stove, just not for large volumes of liquid that need to boil.

I actually considered an element, but my research failed to find me a decently powered single burner. I read a bunch of review articles but all of the retail ones seem under powered.
I have a single induction element that I use, but it doesn't work with copper.

Do you have any idea what brand might be a commercial level single burner?

I'll also have to consider the cost of that compared to a new pot, especially if the $70 pot will work.

The other option is to buy a converter disk for the induction element so that I can use it with my copper pots, but that's also the same price as a Lodge enamel pot, and I wonder if the little induction element even has enough power for such giant pots filled with liquid.

It all comes down to if the cheap enameled pots are of relatively similar quality to the Le Creuset type pots, and according to that Test Kitchen clip, it looks like some brands are very close in term of performance.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: GizmoTX on October 07, 2019, 10:04:19 AM
So this pot from Milo showed up on my FB feed: $95 for 5.5 qt. I'm very tempted. Here's a review: https://www.thekitchn.com/milo-dutch-oven-review-22950065?fbclid=IwAR3YQmhGCMZMZ4gb7M66-lrEw5r2cps0paiOKwB86jDR72x5r6_OCoHIe9o
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Linea_Norway on October 07, 2019, 10:56:29 AM
Do you normally  make soup with sour in it? Maybe that dissolves some of the steel.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: mm1970 on October 07, 2019, 11:18:05 AM
How big does it need to be? Tramontina & Lodge make economical 5 qt Dutch ovens.
If you need bigger, look for an outlet shop for Le Creuset.

At least 6qt, preferably 8qt

We have this one.  I've had it for many many years and really like it.  6 qt, not 8.

https://www.amazon.com/Lodge-Enameled-Classic-Enamel-Island/dp/B000N501BK

looks like they have a 7.5 qt too

https://www.amazon.com/Lodge-Enameled-Classic-Enamel-Island/dp/B0039UU9UE?th=1
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 07, 2019, 11:22:54 AM
Do you normally  make soup with sour in it? Maybe that dissolves some of the steel.

I really don't think that's it. It was 3 different recipes and it wasn't just flavour but a significant difference in texture; only one recipe was acidic.

I found a Cuisinart pot for about $100 on Amazon, and the Test Kitchen indicated that brand as the runner up to Le Creuset, with downsides that it chips more and weighs more.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Lulee on October 07, 2019, 11:23:02 AM
Never tried Lodge's enameled cookware but Mom swore by her old cast iron pan she had of theirs, right up til she dropped it and the handle broke off.  Newer ones are "pebblier" in texture like all newer cast iron ware is but otherwise they still have a good reputation.

Any chance you can borrow different cookware from friends, especially fancy pants ones who put out for high-end cookware?  Then you can try a few different types until you figure out which brands you like.

I haven't tried the Emil Legare's enameled ware though I think I saw it rated well on one of their shows.  I do have some of his steel cookware which I like fairly well (it was a gift).

The 2017 reviews on dutch ovens says Cuisanart compares well to Le Crueset and is a bit cheaper.  I don't know if they have much cookware in their site but I have gotten refurbished equipment at their store for a savings. 
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: meghan88 on October 07, 2019, 12:15:00 PM
Wouldn't the easiest solution just be to cook something else/adjust your meal plans? Like, instead of two pots of soup, one batch of soup in the expensive pot + something else that didn't involve a pot? I also do volume cooking every weekend, and have a very minimalist kitchen where nothing is really replicated, and find that having a variety of different types of dishes in the meal plan helps prevent me from needing extra anything. So some soup, some baked dishes, some stir fries, etc.

I could...but years of working out a routine that I enjoy is worth buying a new pot for me.

I'm saving this for an example for next time there's a discussion about how the forums have dramatically changed over the years in terms of spending/consumption patterns.

For a once-in-a-lifetime purchase of a good cooking pot that'll last for years, for someone who does a lot of cooking?  Does that consumption pattern rank alongside those on the forum who own cars and trucks - sometimes more than one - but could probably do without them?

Malkynn - have you tried kijiji, craigslist, varagesale, letgo etc.?  Garage sales, or the local goodwill?  Maybe post a "want" ad on kijiji and see what comes up?
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: honeybbq on October 07, 2019, 01:25:01 PM
As the defender of the Vitamix, I had to come in and support you with your $$ kitchen tool.

Think of it as anything else: a convolution of the cost per "use/wear/etc" and the quality of the output and the time savings (if there are any).

Cooking is an art, and you can't make the Mona Lisa out of rancid paints.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: NextTime on October 07, 2019, 01:26:45 PM
I hope you're not a Star Wars fan. If so, they may have left you with little choice:

https://www.menshealth.com/technology-gear/g29385319/star-wars-le-creuset-line/







I'm digging that Han Solo Carbonite Signature Roaster.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 07, 2019, 01:34:35 PM
I hope you're not a Star Wars fan. If so, they may have left you with little choice:

https://www.menshealth.com/technology-gear/g29385319/star-wars-le-creuset-line/







I'm digging that Han Solo Carbonite Signature Roaster.

Lol, cute, but definitely not partial to collector's items
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: KBecks on October 07, 2019, 02:23:01 PM
Are these blind taste tests?

Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 07, 2019, 02:58:04 PM
Are these blind taste tests?

Nope.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: OtherJen on October 07, 2019, 03:00:47 PM
Wouldn't the easiest solution just be to cook something else/adjust your meal plans? Like, instead of two pots of soup, one batch of soup in the expensive pot + something else that didn't involve a pot? I also do volume cooking every weekend, and have a very minimalist kitchen where nothing is really replicated, and find that having a variety of different types of dishes in the meal plan helps prevent me from needing extra anything. So some soup, some baked dishes, some stir fries, etc.

I could...but years of working out a routine that I enjoy is worth buying a new pot for me.

I'm saving this for an example for next time there's a discussion about how the forums have dramatically changed over the years in terms of spending/consumption patterns.

For a once-in-a-lifetime purchase of a good cooking pot that'll last for years, for someone who does a lot of cooking?  Does that consumption pattern rank alongside those on the forum who own cars and trucks - sometimes more than one - but could probably do without them?

Right? Maybe $100 (equivalent to what, 2–4 restaurant meals for 2 people) for a quality pot that will be used regularly and possibly last for decades doesn't seem that crazy to me. I mean, some people on the forums spend a lot more than that on plane travel or kids' sports or organic free-range everything. *shrugs* I thought the point of Mustachianism was to be very smart with money so that you can spend mindfully on your values.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: mountain mustache on October 07, 2019, 06:28:05 PM
Wouldn't the easiest solution just be to cook something else/adjust your meal plans? Like, instead of two pots of soup, one batch of soup in the expensive pot + something else that didn't involve a pot? I also do volume cooking every weekend, and have a very minimalist kitchen where nothing is really replicated, and find that having a variety of different types of dishes in the meal plan helps prevent me from needing extra anything. So some soup, some baked dishes, some stir fries, etc.

I could...but years of working out a routine that I enjoy is worth buying a new pot for me.

I'm saving this for an example for next time there's a discussion about how the forums have dramatically changed over the years in terms of spending/consumption patterns.

For a once-in-a-lifetime purchase of a good cooking pot that'll last for years, for someone who does a lot of cooking?  Does that consumption pattern rank alongside those on the forum who own cars and trucks - sometimes more than one - but could probably do without them?

Right? Maybe $100 (equivalent to what, 2–4 restaurant meals for 2 people) for a quality pot that will be used regularly and possibly last for decades doesn't seem that crazy to me. I mean, some people on the forums spend a lot more than that on plane travel or kids' sports or organic free-range everything. *shrugs* I thought the point of Mustachianism was to be very smart with money so that you can spend mindfully on your values.

I agree on this. I don't travel, ever, because it's not my passion, so I literally spend $0 on travel every year (ok maybe $100 on gas to road trip somewhere to camp for free).  I love cooking, I'm very passionate about good ingredients, trying new recipes, and enjoying the experience of cooking. I have a few pieces of expensive cookware and a few nice appliances that bring me great joy to use when I cook every single day. International travel/flying to exotic places is consumption/spending I don't agree with or need personally, but plenty of people on this forum justify that expense over small expenses that they may just not understand because it is not a need that they personally have. If you value the cooking experience, the joy of making amazing food at home that tastes incredible, then to me a nice pot  equates to "spending mindfully on your values." But that's just my two cents.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: calimom on October 07, 2019, 08:09:48 PM
@mountain mustache , great response to a rather...smug post. We all have things and experiences we value.

Long ago, I had a friend who was a fabulous home chef. She lived in a studio apartment the shittiest kitchen you ever saw, but produced wonderful meals for her guests. She impressed upon me the need for good quality knives and pots, and thus my small collection of Le Creuset was inspired. I have a stock pot, Dutch over, casserole, and grill pan. All purchase from an outlet. I am particularly fond of the Dutch oven which goes from stovetop to oven for things like a cassoulet. From what I have read, the Staub looks like a good contender and not as pricey.

I'm not-so-secretly happy that I acquired my fancy cookware, good knives, Vitamix and my Volvo wagon before discovering MMM. You may all show me the door now.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 08, 2019, 04:58:26 AM
FWIW, @Zikoris is welcome to criticize my spending whenever she wants. She's a personal inspiration to me as she's one of the only Mustachians out there in the media that I really relate to in terms of core lifestyle.

That's why I didn't mind expanding on my cooking routine, because I don't mind clarifying that I wasn't just casually brushing off a smart suggestion that she made.

I don't come here to have my spending decisions supported, I come here to have them challenged with useful information and creative alternative solutions.

Truthfully, knowing myself, I'll probably not buy any pot for months, try a few more permutations of cooking with what I already have to see if I can maneuver a better system. This kitchen is still new to me and I'm still learning her quirks.

Thanks to this thread, I now have a much better understanding of what I'm looking at in terms of high end vs budget enameled cast iron, and I'll let that info percolate for awhile until the answer seems obvious.

In the meantime, all suggestions and input are welcome, even those that are just people telling me that I'm imagining things, lol.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: terran on October 08, 2019, 05:53:40 AM
I don't know that I could bring myself to buy it myself, but I will say that we inherited my mother-in-law's wedding gift Le Creuset that must be approaching 50 years old now, and while there is staining on the inside they're smooth and chip free.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Zikoris on October 08, 2019, 09:09:49 AM
FWIW, @Zikoris is welcome to criticize my spending whenever she wants. She's a personal inspiration to me as she's one of the only Mustachians out there in the media that I really relate to in terms of core lifestyle.

That's why I didn't mind expanding on my cooking routine, because I don't mind clarifying that I wasn't just casually brushing off a smart suggestion that she made.

I don't come here to have my spending decisions supported, I come here to have them challenged with useful information and creative alternative solutions.


Well, that's good! I certainly have no ill intentions - my perspective is generally that if I have a problem and I'm about to spend a pile of money trying to solve it, and someone has another possible solution that doesn't cost anything, for god sakes please tell me - maybe I'll do it, maybe I won't but I want all the options.

I'm also a fan of having a flexible and adaptable food system in general - my own system has had MANY large changes over the last... ten years?... due to different kitchens, working hours, grocery store choices, equipment, changing preferences, and so on. I am constantly making tweaks and improvements as I figure out better ways to do things, and increase my skills in different food prep areas. Certainly every time we come back from an overseas trip there are substantial changes due to wanting to try making everything I ate there, lol. It's not absolutely necessary, of course, but I find being really flexible and adaptable really helps my food system in general.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: littlebird on October 08, 2019, 11:28:54 AM
Chiming in to join the chorus of Lodge enameled recommenders. On the rare occasions I shop at Marshall's I've seen them there almost every time for cheap. So if you are ok with an ugly color (they seem to usually be a kind of greyish purple) you should check there! They often also sell Le Creuset if you decide to go expensive.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: merula on October 08, 2019, 11:40:56 AM
I have two enamel cast iron pots, one Le Creuset and one from some department store with a celebrity chef marque (Martha? Emeril? Can't remember now). The cooking experience is very similar between the two in terms of even heating, heat retention, etc.

The one difference I've noticed is that the enamel on the cheap one is harder to clean, easily discolored and seems thinner. The thinness of the inside enamel might be due to extra scrubbing because of the 'harder to clean' issue, but I've also chipped the outside of the cheaper one but not the Le Creuset.

I wouldn't buy a cheap one again, so I'm on the lookout for Le Creuset (and now Staub, thanks for the rec) at thrift stores, garage sales, pawn shops, etc. (I've found pawn shops to be a great source of higher-quality household things than you'd normally see at thrift stores.)
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Lucky Recardito on October 08, 2019, 12:05:21 PM
+1 for Lodge; I'll also add that we have a Cost Plus World Market-branded enameled cast iron Dutch oven that was left in our kitchen by the previous homeowners and that we then adopted; it's currently my favorite pot. (I've never cooked in high-end cast iron, though, so it's possible I don't know what I'm missing.) Not sure if they make larger models.

Voicing general support for nice kitchen tools, though. So, so great.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: GuitarStv on October 08, 2019, 12:17:21 PM
I don't taste anything wrong with food made in the large stainless steel soup pot we bought at Goodwill 20 years ago.  Get an inexpensive (preferably used) stainless steel pot and go to town.

If you desperately feel the need for a ceramic coated pot, why not trawl your local craigslist until one pops up?  No reason to buy a new one.  Those pots should last forever if taken care of properly.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: FL_MM on October 08, 2019, 01:41:40 PM
Good cookware is a lifetime investment. Buy what you need and whatever encourages you to cook. I may get facepunched by the hardcore, but the cost of the right tools is less expensive than eating out or ruining food.
If you have the time, shop sales, outlets and garage/estate sales.
My stash includes 2 large Staub Dutch ovens purchased for 70% off at an end of season sale, LC skillet, braiser and gratin dish all purchased at an outlet with a coupon, a vintage Wagner skillet, and vintage Revereware. I’ve never paid over $100 a piece. The Wagner was a find at $5.
Happy hunting!
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Linea_Norway on October 08, 2019, 01:45:19 PM
Damn, this afternoon you me looking at Le Creuset pots online and considering them.

Luckily I still have the idea that our stainless steel pans works fine for soup. And the Ikea wok works fine for wokking. And another stainless steel pan can even in theory make bread in the oven. So I won't buy one.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Frankies Girl on October 08, 2019, 02:46:30 PM
Someone is selling a cherry red Le Creuset soup pot for $70 on my Nextdoor app. Made me think of this thread.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Dicey on October 08, 2019, 03:30:38 PM
When we were cleaning out the house after my mom died, my brother wanted the le Ceuset pot. First, hecause he had given it to her years before and second because, le Creuset...

Thanks to this thread, I'm kinda jonesing for one now. I think if I lie down it will pass.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Altons Bobs on October 08, 2019, 05:43:52 PM
I'd say to just go buy it since you know you will be using it regularly.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 08, 2019, 07:23:59 PM
I don't taste anything wrong with food made in the large stainless steel soup pot we bought at Goodwill 20 years ago.  Get an inexpensive (preferably used) stainless steel pot and go to town.

If you desperately feel the need for a ceramic coated pot, why not trawl your local craigslist until one pops up?  No reason to buy a new one.  Those pots should last forever if taken care of properly.

I don't need an inexpensive steel pot, I have several expensive ones, plus two cat-bathtub sized copper pots.
I don't desperately need a second cast iron pot, I'm considering one.
I also never said there's anything wrong with cooking in stainless steel, but I am finding that my cooking is coming out better in cast iron.

So ...yeah....

But thanks for the suggestion, I'll keep checking Kijiji.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Case on October 09, 2019, 06:42:31 PM
Wouldn't the easiest solution just be to cook something else/adjust your meal plans? Like, instead of two pots of soup, one batch of soup in the expensive pot + something else that didn't involve a pot? I also do volume cooking every weekend, and have a very minimalist kitchen where nothing is really replicated, and find that having a variety of different types of dishes in the meal plan helps prevent me from needing extra anything. So some soup, some baked dishes, some stir fries, etc.

I could...but years of working out a routine that I enjoy is worth buying a new pot for me.

I'm saving this for an example for next time there's a discussion about how the forums have dramatically changed over the years in terms of spending/consumption patterns.

For a once-in-a-lifetime purchase of a good cooking pot that'll last for years, for someone who does a lot of cooking?  Does that consumption pattern rank alongside those on the forum who own cars and trucks - sometimes more than one - but could probably do without them?

Malkynn - have you tried kijiji, craigslist, varagesale, letgo etc.?  Garage sales, or the local goodwill?  Maybe post a "want" ad on kijiji and see what comes up?

I think Zikoris’ point is that posting about a fanciful purchase on one of the top frugality forums on the web is a stark contrast to the forum of a few years ago, for better or worse.  Even if a fancy pan is a small purchase compared to a clown car, it is nonetheless an extravagance.
Are extravagances not allowed, especially when you can easily afford them?  Of course not.  But Zikoris’ point ( my interpretation ) is that a lot of this sort of stuff pops up nowadays and it has definitely changed the character of this forum.  Whether that is good or bad is subjective.

Malkynn, the short cut easy answer is to go with wirecutter’s Lodge recommendation, which they pretty thoroughly evaluate and find to have equal performance to Le Creuset.  Beyond that, you will probably have an easier time figuring out on a cooking specific forum or by just buying the Lodge and the <insert expensive brand here> and run the comparison.  Then you can report out and add more data points (the im sure a google search will return you plenty of user data).

My own personal experience:
My Relative insisted on getting me expensive fissler SS for my wedding gift.  Later, I needed a large pot for beer brewing so i bought a 4 gallon cheap brand made-in-china with similar design characteristics (aluminum core within SS).  In practice, they both seem to work reasonably well and i cannot differentiate them.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: ROF Expat on October 10, 2019, 04:21:53 AM
Malkynn,

I don't think you should be criticized for wanting to spend some money on a thoughtful purchase of something you will use and  enjoy (and can afford).  I wonder if you might have set the wrong tone by describing your enameled pot as "fancy."  It seems to me that you are saying the enameled pot gives you a better result, and the fact that it is more expensive than the steel pot is more or less incidental. 

I can't speak directly to the difference with soup, but I definitely find that different materials have a huge impact on cooking.  My wife loves her ceramic coated pans for eggs, but I much prefer cast iron for almost everything.  I find that the cast iron sears steaks far better than any alternative.  The fact that a good enameled pan should last your lifetime and be passed on to your heirs might even take a little of the sting out of the initial purchase price. 

We bought a couple of Le Creuset pots years ago (including the gigantic "goose pot") and are very happy with them.  I just looked up the current cost of a goose pot and it took my breath away.  I'm pretty sure I didn't pay anything near the current price for them.  I have some lodge cast iron, but none of the enamel.  Given the price difference, I'd probably start with the Lodge and only consider the Le Creuset in the unlikely event that the Lodge didn't perform well. 


Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 10, 2019, 04:26:29 AM
Wouldn't the easiest solution just be to cook something else/adjust your meal plans? Like, instead of two pots of soup, one batch of soup in the expensive pot + something else that didn't involve a pot? I also do volume cooking every weekend, and have a very minimalist kitchen where nothing is really replicated, and find that having a variety of different types of dishes in the meal plan helps prevent me from needing extra anything. So some soup, some baked dishes, some stir fries, etc.

I could...but years of working out a routine that I enjoy is worth buying a new pot for me.

I'm saving this for an example for next time there's a discussion about how the forums have dramatically changed over the years in terms of spending/consumption patterns.

For a once-in-a-lifetime purchase of a good cooking pot that'll last for years, for someone who does a lot of cooking?  Does that consumption pattern rank alongside those on the forum who own cars and trucks - sometimes more than one - but could probably do without them?

Malkynn - have you tried kijiji, craigslist, varagesale, letgo etc.?  Garage sales, or the local goodwill?  Maybe post a "want" ad on kijiji and see what comes up?

I think Zikoris’ point is that posting about a fanciful purchase on one of the top frugality forums on the web is a stark contrast to the forum of a few years ago, for better or worse.  Even if a fancy pan is a small purchase compared to a clown car, it is nonetheless an extravagance.
Are extravagances not allowed, especially when you can easily afford them?  Of course not.  But Zikoris’ point ( my interpretation ) is that a lot of this sort of stuff pops up nowadays and it has definitely changed the character of this forum.  Whether that is good or bad is subjective.

Malkynn, the short cut easy answer is to go with wirecutter’s Lodge recommendation, which they pretty thoroughly evaluate and find to have equal performance to Le Creuset.  Beyond that, you will probably have an easier time figuring out on a cooking specific forum or by just buying the Lodge and the <insert expensive brand here> and run the comparison.  Then you can report out and add more data points (the im sure a google search will return you plenty of user data).

My own personal experience:
My Relative insisted on getting me expensive fissler SS for my wedding gift.  Later, I needed a large pot for beer brewing so i bought a 4 gallon cheap brand made-in-china with similar design characteristics (aluminum core within SS).  In practice, they both seem to work reasonably well and i cannot differentiate them.

I'm pretty sure Zikoris' point was that she made a suggestion for a seemingly easy workaround so that I wouldn't have to buy a new pot and my reply seemed like a glib "nah, I think I'll just buy a pot anyway", which is why I clarified how I cook.
She already came back and said as much.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 10, 2019, 04:52:36 AM
Malkynn,

I don't think you should be criticized for wanting to spend some money on a thoughtful purchase of something you will use and  enjoy (and can afford).  I wonder if you might have set the wrong tone by describing your enameled pot as "fancy."  It seems to me that you are saying the enameled pot gives you a better result, and the fact that it is more expensive than the steel pot is more or less incidental. 

I can't speak directly to the difference with soup, but I definitely find that different materials have a huge impact on cooking.  My wife loves her ceramic coated pans for eggs, but I much prefer cast iron for almost everything.  I find that the cast iron sears steaks far better than any alternative.  The fact that a good enameled pan should last your lifetime and be passed on to your heirs might even take a little of the sting out of the initial purchase price. 

We bought a couple of Le Creuset pots years ago (including the gigantic "goose pot") and are very happy with them.  I just looked up the current cost of a goose pot and it took my breath away.  I'm pretty sure I didn't pay anything near the current price for them.  I have some lodge cast iron, but none of the enamel.  Given the price difference, I'd probably start with the Lodge and only consider the Le Creuset in the unlikely event that the Lodge didn't perform well.

Lol, I am not a thin-skinned lady, criticism doesn't bother me.
I might throw a little sarcasm back at @GuitarStv, but that's because he can take it too ;)

That last part is what I want to avoid, wasting money on a cheaper pot that I end up disliking and ending up buying the nice pot anyway.

I'm just considering all of my options, a new stove is still a possibility.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: KBecks on October 10, 2019, 05:49:31 AM
A Staub pot *is* fancy.

I have to stay off the thread to keep away from a case of the wants.  I didn't know our food would taste better in a high end pot!
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 10, 2019, 06:06:46 AM
A Staub pot *is* fancy.

I have to stay off the thread to keep away from a case of the wants.  I didn't know our food would taste better in a high end pot!

According to the Test Kitchen, it would taste just as good in an econo-pot like a Lodge or Cuisinart, so that's good news.

My hesitation is the weight, which is the main difference. Huge cast iron pots are already very heavy, I'm not sure I would do well with a significantly heavier pot.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Zoot on October 10, 2019, 06:14:16 AM
I actually have a program on my laptop where I have cross referenced all of my recipes according to perishable ingredients that can't be bought in small amounts, or are very expensive in small amounts, and I plan a week's worth of cooking around those particular items.

I'd love to know what you're using, if it's commercially available--I've just got turned on to Copy Me That (and it has revolutionized my recipe management!), but would love to know more about what you're using (as it might be a good supplement).

Regarding the pot(s):  I have several pieces of All-Clad and Le Creuset in my kitchen, and LOVE them.  They will be pried from my cold, dead, fingers someday.  All of them were bought at off-price stores like Marshall's / Home Goods.  For instance, my Le Creuset dutch oven was $90 at Home Goods instead of $300 retail, because it had a TINY (and I do mean TINY) flaw in the enamel.  I've used it for going on 20 years now, and it's never missed a beat.  The All-Clad pieces were bought by similar methods.

For us cooks, tools are IMPORTANT.  Food behaves DIFFERENTLY in different cookware.  Cookware affects taste, texture, depth of flavor, behavior of ingredients, SO MANY THINGS.  Do not deny yourself the tools you need to practice your Art.  :)  Use the skills you have developed to find a good price on it, pay it, and enjoy it for the rest of your cooking life.  That $90 purchase has worked out to $4.50 per year of use so far, and that pot shows no signs of not lasting another couple of decades--and the payoff in excellent food has been more than worth it. 
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: G-dog on October 11, 2019, 03:05:46 PM
I just saw a Lodge enameled pot at the grocery store for $80.  I didn’t closely check size or weight - but it was at least 4 qt, maybe 6 qt size.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Case on October 11, 2019, 09:02:22 PM
Wouldn't the easiest solution just be to cook something else/adjust your meal plans? Like, instead of two pots of soup, one batch of soup in the expensive pot + something else that didn't involve a pot? I also do volume cooking every weekend, and have a very minimalist kitchen where nothing is really replicated, and find that having a variety of different types of dishes in the meal plan helps prevent me from needing extra anything. So some soup, some baked dishes, some stir fries, etc.

I could...but years of working out a routine that I enjoy is worth buying a new pot for me.

I'm saving this for an example for next time there's a discussion about how the forums have dramatically changed over the years in terms of spending/consumption patterns.

For a once-in-a-lifetime purchase of a good cooking pot that'll last for years, for someone who does a lot of cooking?  Does that consumption pattern rank alongside those on the forum who own cars and trucks - sometimes more than one - but could probably do without them?

Malkynn - have you tried kijiji, craigslist, varagesale, letgo etc.?  Garage sales, or the local goodwill?  Maybe post a "want" ad on kijiji and see what comes up?

I think Zikoris’ point is that posting about a fanciful purchase on one of the top frugality forums on the web is a stark contrast to the forum of a few years ago, for better or worse.  Even if a fancy pan is a small purchase compared to a clown car, it is nonetheless an extravagance.
Are extravagances not allowed, especially when you can easily afford them?  Of course not.  But Zikoris’ point ( my interpretation ) is that a lot of this sort of stuff pops up nowadays and it has definitely changed the character of this forum.  Whether that is good or bad is subjective.

Malkynn, the short cut easy answer is to go with wirecutter’s Lodge recommendation, which they pretty thoroughly evaluate and find to have equal performance to Le Creuset.  Beyond that, you will probably have an easier time figuring out on a cooking specific forum or by just buying the Lodge and the <insert expensive brand here> and run the comparison.  Then you can report out and add more data points (the im sure a google search will return you plenty of user data).

My own personal experience:
My Relative insisted on getting me expensive fissler SS for my wedding gift.  Later, I needed a large pot for beer brewing so i bought a 4 gallon cheap brand made-in-china with similar design characteristics (aluminum core within SS).  In practice, they both seem to work reasonably well and i cannot differentiate them.

I'm pretty sure Zikoris' point was that she made a suggestion for a seemingly easy workaround so that I wouldn't have to buy a new pot and my reply seemed like a glib "nah, I think I'll just buy a pot anyway", which is why I clarified how I cook.
She already came back and said as much.

I think your are referring to a different response of hers.

"I'm saving this for an example for next time there's a discussion about how the forums have dramatically changed over the years in terms of spending/consumption patterns."

This is the one I referred to.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: RetiredAt63 on October 12, 2019, 05:38:43 AM
I am thinking that appropriate cookware fits under the Vimes Boot Theory.  Buy the level of quality you will need and use it for a long time. 

Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Dicey on October 12, 2019, 05:47:01 AM
I'm just considering all of my options, a new stove is still a possibility.
I saw what you did there ;-)
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 12, 2019, 06:03:01 AM
I think your are referring to a different response of hers.

"I'm saving this for an example for next time there's a discussion about how the forums have dramatically changed over the years in terms of spending/consumption patterns."

This is the one I referred to.

I'm not comfortable speaking for her too much, but yes, that is exactly the response I'm referring to, and I'm fairly confident my interpretation of the exchange is correct.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 12, 2019, 06:18:29 AM
I'm just considering all of my options, a new stove is still a possibility.
I saw what you did there ;-)

I have a connection that can get me a good stove for less than the cost of a high end enameled pot, and the stove kind of sucks.

I'm also not looking to spend as little as possible, I'm just looking to avoid spending on a suboptimal option.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Case on October 12, 2019, 09:50:49 AM
I think your are referring to a different response of hers.

"I'm saving this for an example for next time there's a discussion about how the forums have dramatically changed over the years in terms of spending/consumption patterns."

This is the one I referred to.

I'm not comfortable speaking for her too much, but yes, that is exactly the response I'm referring to, and I'm fairly confident my interpretation of the exchange is correct.

Ah, I see.  I don’t see how you arrived at your interpretation, but it’s no big deal, and perhaps I a just missing the obvious.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Zikoris on October 12, 2019, 10:38:31 AM
I am thinking that appropriate cookware fits under the Vimes Boot Theory.  Buy the level of quality you will need and use it for a long time.

I'd say it's the opposite - a great example of why Vimes Boot Theory is no longer applicable to the modern world. The theory goes that a poor person could not afford the more expensive quality boots, and thus spent a lot more money than the rich person buying cheap pair after cheap pair, and hence it's more expensive to be poor. Which was once true, but then the world changed and the price of basic goods plummeted due to industrialization and mass production. There is practically nobody these days who even keeps a pair of shoes until they're completely worn out beyond use, because they've gotten to be so cheap and easily replaceable. The same goes with cookware - sure, you can get better results with better stuff, but the cheaper stuff will absolutely last years and years, and cost such a small amount to replace that most people, even the poorest, would not even bother to budget for it (like, literally a buck or two secondhand for a basic pot).
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: deborah on October 12, 2019, 12:25:52 PM
I have a stainless steel pot for soup. It’s amazing. It is actually a pasta pot. Similar to this (but without the steamer insert - it only has the bigger pasta insert)

https://www.everten.com.au/scanpan-impact-multipot-24cm.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw84XtBRDWARIsAAU1aM364785snpJDdlIp94q6Fe8TxZfQolpexpYrWW5MJ7cPz3l4u9v0hAaAunaEALw_wcB

I love the pasta insert, that I can use for dumping the ingredients in when I cook stock, and easily remove them from the stock at the end of cooking. It also enables me to cook the beans and drain them before completing the soup. The pot has revolutionised my soup cooking! It is rarely (if ever) used for pasta. As we cook soup weekly, the pot is one of our most used pieces of kitchen equipment. I agree that getting the right piece for the job is very important.

I would find the cast iron soup pot far too heavy especially once it had the soup in it.

Have you found that induction is better or worse for cooking with?
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Cyanne on October 12, 2019, 03:00:55 PM
Is this one large enough?

https://www.cutleryandmore.com/staub/round-dutch-oven-fish-knob-p138226

They have different colors and knob styles on clearance.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Cranky on October 12, 2019, 05:12:21 PM
I am thinking that appropriate cookware fits under the Vimes Boot Theory.  Buy the level of quality you will need and use it for a long time.

I'd say it's the opposite - a great example of why Vimes Boot Theory is no longer applicable to the modern world. The theory goes that a poor person could not afford the more expensive quality boots, and thus spent a lot more money than the rich person buying cheap pair after cheap pair, and hence it's more expensive to be poor. Which was once true, but then the world changed and the price of basic goods plummeted due to industrialization and mass production. There is practically nobody these days who even keeps a pair of shoes until they're completely worn out beyond use, because they've gotten to be so cheap and easily replaceable. The same goes with cookware - sure, you can get better results with better stuff, but the cheaper stuff will absolutely last years and years, and cost such a small amount to replace that most people, even the poorest, would not even bother to budget for it (like, literally a buck or two secondhand for a basic pot).

I am also skeptical of the Vimes Boot Theory, because most of the price of a pair of shoes has to do with marketing, not the quality of the manufacturing or materials. You can pay a whole lot for really terrible shoes, and I've had cheap shoes last forever. (I have a pair of knock off Crocs that I bought out of the dollar bin at the grocery store, and I've worn them out in the garden for about 10 years now, and will probably wear them another 10 years.)

Also, good luck getting your boots resoled at a reasonable price.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 12, 2019, 06:01:42 PM
I have a stainless steel pot for soup. It’s amazing. It is actually a pasta pot. Similar to this (but without the steamer insert - it only has the bigger pasta insert)

https://www.everten.com.au/scanpan-impact-multipot-24cm.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw84XtBRDWARIsAAU1aM364785snpJDdlIp94q6Fe8TxZfQolpexpYrWW5MJ7cPz3l4u9v0hAaAunaEALw_wcB

I love the pasta insert, that I can use for dumping the ingredients in when I cook stock, and easily remove them from the stock at the end of cooking. It also enables me to cook the beans and drain them before completing the soup. The pot has revolutionised my soup cooking! It is rarely (if ever) used for pasta. As we cook soup weekly, the pot is one of our most used pieces of kitchen equipment. I agree that getting the right piece for the job is very important.

I would find the cast iron soup pot far too heavy especially once it had the soup in it.

Have you found that induction is better or worse for cooking with?

Induction? No idea, the only pots I can use it with are my cast iron, so I have no comparison.
It won't work with my copper or even with my stainless steel because of the texture on the bottoms of them.

I do have two large stainless steel pots, but I pretty much only use them for pasta, mostly because they're light, which is kind of handy when pouring boiling water.

I rarely move the cast iron pots when they have soup in them, so that's not an issue, just hauling them empty in and out of the cupboard.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 12, 2019, 06:14:13 PM
I am thinking that appropriate cookware fits under the Vimes Boot Theory.  Buy the level of quality you will need and use it for a long time.

I'd say it's the opposite - a great example of why Vimes Boot Theory is no longer applicable to the modern world. The theory goes that a poor person could not afford the more expensive quality boots, and thus spent a lot more money than the rich person buying cheap pair after cheap pair, and hence it's more expensive to be poor. Which was once true, but then the world changed and the price of basic goods plummeted due to industrialization and mass production. There is practically nobody these days who even keeps a pair of shoes until they're completely worn out beyond use, because they've gotten to be so cheap and easily replaceable. The same goes with cookware - sure, you can get better results with better stuff, but the cheaper stuff will absolutely last years and years, and cost such a small amount to replace that most people, even the poorest, would not even bother to budget for it (like, literally a buck or two secondhand for a basic pot).

Plus, non enameled, unseasoned cast iron is dirt cheap...
I'm kind of surprised that no one has called me out for that yet.

Here's where you can legit call me a soft. The only benefit of enamel is that it's easier to clean, easier to maintain, and makes seeing the fond and the sear easier.

The expense of my pots doesn't make them cook better, the expense makes them easier to use while they cook better.

So yeah, definitely not a case of Vines Boot Theory. Very much a case of hedonic adaptation.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: G-dog on October 12, 2019, 06:16:47 PM
You don’t worry about anything leaching out of non-enameled cast iron?  I would think it wasn’t suitable for tomato sauces or other acidic foods.  Maybe that is do minor that it’s not relevant.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on October 12, 2019, 06:53:22 PM
You don’t worry about anything leaching out of non-enameled cast iron?  I would think it wasn’t suitable for tomato sauces or other acidic foods.  Maybe that is do minor that it’s not relevant.

Tomato sauce can definitely strip the seasoning and affect taste. That is absolutely true.

Now, I don't make tomato sauce and don't particularly like acidic food, so I wasn't really thinking of that honestly.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: BrightFIRE on October 14, 2019, 01:17:56 PM
I have a full set of Le Creuset, but a few years ago when I wanted a larger pot I didn't want to spend so much. I bought a Lodge pot (I think it's 8 Qt?) at Target for around $80. It works just as well as my Le Creuset and I'd happily buy more pieces in the future (heresy, I know!). It is heavy as all hell though, especially when full, and it's huge. If I put it in the oven, I have to take out the top rack to accommodate the closed pot with handle. It's a real challenge to lift when it's full and hot, and I have to remember to lift with my legs or I'll have a sore back the next day!

The only other thing I could think of for the different results is the burner itself. Do you always cook with the pots in the same spots on the stove top? Maybe one burner is weaker than the other?

If you're braising, one tip from Molly Stevens' All About Braising was to cut a piece of parchment to fit on top of the food and then put the lid on (even with good pots). It's an even better seal then.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: ROF Expat on October 15, 2019, 01:11:12 AM
I am thinking that appropriate cookware fits under the Vimes Boot Theory.  Buy the level of quality you will need and use it for a long time.

I'd say it's the opposite - a great example of why Vimes Boot Theory is no longer applicable to the modern world. The theory goes that a poor person could not afford the more expensive quality boots, and thus spent a lot more money than the rich person buying cheap pair after cheap pair, and hence it's more expensive to be poor. Which was once true, but then the world changed and the price of basic goods plummeted due to industrialization and mass production. There is practically nobody these days who even keeps a pair of shoes until they're completely worn out beyond use, because they've gotten to be so cheap and easily replaceable. The same goes with cookware - sure, you can get better results with better stuff, but the cheaper stuff will absolutely last years and years, and cost such a small amount to replace that most people, even the poorest, would not even bother to budget for it (like, literally a buck or two secondhand for a basic pot).

Plus, non enameled, unseasoned cast iron is dirt cheap...
I'm kind of surprised that no one has called me out for that yet.

Here's where you can legit call me a soft. The only benefit of enamel is that it's easier to clean, easier to maintain, and makes seeing the fond and the sear easier.

The expense of my pots doesn't make them cook better, the expense makes them easier to use while they cook better.

So yeah, definitely not a case of Vines Boot Theory. Very much a case of hedonic adaptation.

I wouldn't call you out on enamel vs plain iron because the price difference between a lodge bare iron and lodge enamel dutch oven in the 5/6 quart range is about $20 dollars.  Spending $60 for a 6 qt enameled pot that will be easier to clean, easier to maintain, and will make seeing your food and sear easier doesn't seem "hedonic" compared to $40 for a bare iron pot when we are talking about a  lifetime purchase. 

I think the Vimes boot theory is important in that it gets you thinking about value for money and total lifecycle costs rather than just up front cost.  The problem is that the theory is only relevant when it is fully thought out and fully applies.  For example, people are often advised to "buy the best tools you can afford."  This probably makes sense for professionals or even non-professionals who use their tools all the time.  That said, I buy relatively inexpensive tools because I only do home handyman stuff.  They won't last as long as higher grade tools, but I will never use them enough to wear them out. 

I strive to have fewer things of higher quality.  When I pass away and my grandchildren come to clear out my house, I hope they'll look at my stuff and say "Wow, look at all this great, high quality stuff!" and fight over who gets to take it home, rather than sigh sadly at the memory of their "hoarder" grandpa and argue whether it is worth taking all his junk to Goodwill or straight to the landfill. 
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: GuitarStv on October 15, 2019, 08:05:48 AM
I am thinking that appropriate cookware fits under the Vimes Boot Theory.  Buy the level of quality you will need and use it for a long time.

I'd say it's the opposite - a great example of why Vimes Boot Theory is no longer applicable to the modern world. The theory goes that a poor person could not afford the more expensive quality boots, and thus spent a lot more money than the rich person buying cheap pair after cheap pair, and hence it's more expensive to be poor. Which was once true, but then the world changed and the price of basic goods plummeted due to industrialization and mass production. There is practically nobody these days who even keeps a pair of shoes until they're completely worn out beyond use, because they've gotten to be so cheap and easily replaceable. The same goes with cookware - sure, you can get better results with better stuff, but the cheaper stuff will absolutely last years and years, and cost such a small amount to replace that most people, even the poorest, would not even bother to budget for it (like, literally a buck or two secondhand for a basic pot).

Plus, non enameled, unseasoned cast iron is dirt cheap...
I'm kind of surprised that no one has called me out for that yet.

Here's where you can legit call me a soft. The only benefit of enamel is that it's easier to clean, easier to maintain, and makes seeing the fond and the sear easier.

The expense of my pots doesn't make them cook better, the expense makes them easier to use while they cook better.

So yeah, definitely not a case of Vines Boot Theory. Very much a case of hedonic adaptation.

I wouldn't call you out on enamel vs plain iron because the price difference between a lodge bare iron and lodge enamel dutch oven in the 5/6 quart range is about $20 dollars.  Spending $60 for a 6 qt enameled pot that will be easier to clean, easier to maintain, and will make seeing your food and sear easier doesn't seem "hedonic" compared to $40 for a bare iron pot when we are talking about a  lifetime purchase. 

I think the Vimes boot theory is important in that it gets you thinking about value for money and total lifecycle costs rather than just up front cost.  The problem is that the theory is only relevant when it is fully thought out and fully applies.  For example, people are often advised to "buy the best tools you can afford."  This probably makes sense for professionals or even non-professionals who use their tools all the time.  That said, I buy relatively inexpensive tools because I only do home handyman stuff.  They won't last as long as higher grade tools, but I will never use them enough to wear them out. 

I strive to have fewer things of higher quality.  When I pass away and my grandchildren come to clear out my house, I hope they'll look at my stuff and say "Wow, look at all this great, high quality stuff!" and fight over who gets to take it home, rather than sigh sadly at the memory of their "hoarder" grandpa and argue whether it is worth taking all his junk to Goodwill or straight to the landfill.

I've been using what are generally considered low quality second hand purchased stainless steel pans and pots for 20 odd years now.  They're light weight and have perfectly functional but non-sexy plastic handles.  I have had to perform maintenance on several of them during that time (tightening the screw that holds the handle onto the pan).  We make great food in them every week, and they've lasted pretty well.  There's no reason we wouldn't get at least another ten or twenty years out of them.  And we got the whole set (four pots and two frying pans) for around 50$ - so less than 10$ each.  It's very hard to argue that Vimes boot theory makes any kind of sense in that sort of environment.  Especially when comparing to cookware that goes for 100+ dollars a piece.

The comments about what you leave behind after you die kinda bother me too.  I've had two grandparents and a close friend die this year.  They all had spent money on high quality things that were important to them (be it furniture, fancy cooking related stuff, televisions, etc).  The vast majority of these items were sold off for very little money because nobody wanted them.  Just because it's high quality and you like a fancy enamel coated stainless steel dish it doesn't mean that your kid is going to want it (I certainly have no use for that type of cookware).  When I die and my child is going through the stuff I leave behind, instead of being impressed with the fancy shit I spent my money on I hope he goes "Wow . . . you really don't need expensive stuff to lead a high quality life!  And look at their bank account . . . they could have afforded any trendy crap being sold . . . but decided it wasn't necessary."  I want people to remember who I was, not fight over who has to sell my old crap on ebay.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: MonkeyJenga on October 15, 2019, 10:17:49 AM
I strive to have fewer things of higher quality.  When I pass away and my grandchildren come to clear out my house, I hope they'll look at my stuff and say "Wow, look at all this great, high quality stuff!" and fight over who gets to take it home, rather than sigh sadly at the memory of their "hoarder" grandpa and argue whether it is worth taking all his junk to Goodwill or straight to the landfill. 

I have relatives fighting over who gets what while a parent is still alive. You do not want this, trust me.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: ROF Expat on October 15, 2019, 03:46:03 PM
I strive to have fewer things of higher quality.  When I pass away and my grandchildren come to clear out my house, I hope they'll look at my stuff and say "Wow, look at all this great, high quality stuff!" and fight over who gets to take it home, rather than sigh sadly at the memory of their "hoarder" grandpa and argue whether it is worth taking all his junk to Goodwill or straight to the landfill. 

I have relatives fighting over who gets what while a parent is still alive. You do not want this, trust me.

It is more of a philosophical point than an actual issue for me since I only have one child.  I have seen families divided by inheritance issues, though, and I hope never to have something like that in my own family. 
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on December 09, 2019, 08:33:47 PM
Update: I have not bought a new pot, or a new stove, I have done as @Zikoris suggested and have modified how I cook due to analysis paralysis.

Truth is, a new stove turns out to be the best option, but if I'm going to replace an appliance, then I would much rather replace the fridge with one that has a freezer on the bottom. So until I'm willing to replace both the fridge and the stove, I'll probably just continue to modify how I manage my cooking routine.

However, I did mention having two giant copper pots. One is so big that it looks like a cat bathtub. Well, I now have a Sphynx cat who needs weekly baths and am actually using the pot as a cat bathtub. Not even joking.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Dicey on December 09, 2019, 10:49:36 PM
Update: I have not bought a new pot, or a new stove, I have done as @Zikoris suggested and have modified how I cook due to analysis paralysis.

Truth is, a new stove turns out to be the best option, but if I'm going to replace an appliance, then I would much rather replace the fridge with one that has a freezer on the bottom. So until I'm willing to replace both the fridge and the stove, I'll probably just continue to modify how I manage my cooking routine.

However, I did mention having two giant copper pots. One is so big that it looks like a cat bathtub. Well, I now have a Sphynx cat who needs weekly baths and am actually using the pot as a cat bathtub. Not even joking.
Ooh, pictures please!
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: jeninco on December 11, 2019, 01:16:21 PM
Ooh, this reminds me of a not-safe-for-easily-disturbed-cat-owner-story:

Spoiler: show
I had to skeletize a (preserved) cat in 9th grade biology (yes, it was a total fucking waste: don't ask me). After scraping away for weeks, I finally brought it home, tossed it in my mom's biggest stock pot, cooked it for an hour or two, and poof! Done. We always after referred to it as "the cat pot", and now that I've moved out, the one that's about that same size has the same name. (we are happy cat owners, and I'm sure they recognize that it's just dark humor.)
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on December 11, 2019, 01:27:42 PM
Ooh, this reminds me of a not-safe-for-easily-disturbed-cat-owner-story:

Spoiler: show
I had to skeletize a (preserved) cat in 9th grade biology (yes, it was a total fucking waste: don't ask me). After scraping away for weeks, I finally brought it home, tossed it in my mom's biggest stock pot, cooked it for an hour or two, and poof! Done. We always after referred to it as "the cat pot", and now that I've moved out, the one that's about that same size has the same name. (we are happy cat owners, and I'm sure they recognize that it's just dark humor.)


LOL, incidentally, I've actually done something very similar.
It's a tedious process isn't it?
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: RetiredAt63 on December 11, 2019, 05:13:56 PM
Ooh, this reminds me of a not-safe-for-easily-disturbed-cat-owner-story:

Spoiler: show
I had to skeletize a (preserved) cat in 9th grade biology (yes, it was a total fucking waste: don't ask me). After scraping away for weeks, I finally brought it home, tossed it in my mom's biggest stock pot, cooked it for an hour or two, and poof! Done. We always after referred to it as "the cat pot", and now that I've moved out, the one that's about that same size has the same name. (we are happy cat owners, and I'm sure they recognize that it's just dark humor.)


LOL, incidentally, I've actually done something very similar.
It's a tedious process isn't it?

If there are no preservatives, dermestid beetles are better.

Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on December 11, 2019, 05:20:00 PM
Ooh, this reminds me of a not-safe-for-easily-disturbed-cat-owner-story:

Spoiler: show
I had to skeletize a (preserved) cat in 9th grade biology (yes, it was a total fucking waste: don't ask me). After scraping away for weeks, I finally brought it home, tossed it in my mom's biggest stock pot, cooked it for an hour or two, and poof! Done. We always after referred to it as "the cat pot", and now that I've moved out, the one that's about that same size has the same name. (we are happy cat owners, and I'm sure they recognize that it's just dark humor.)


LOL, incidentally, I've actually done something very similar.
It's a tedious process isn't it?

If there are no preservatives, dermestid beetles are better.

They really are when they're an option. The alternative is...Ugh...tedious.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: jeninco on December 11, 2019, 05:26:16 PM
Ooh, this reminds me of a not-safe-for-easily-disturbed-cat-owner-story:

Spoiler: show
I had to skeletize a (preserved) cat in 9th grade biology (yes, it was a total fucking waste: don't ask me). After scraping away for weeks, I finally brought it home, tossed it in my mom's biggest stock pot, cooked it for an hour or two, and poof! Done. We always after referred to it as "the cat pot", and now that I've moved out, the one that's about that same size has the same name. (we are happy cat owners, and I'm sure they recognize that it's just dark humor.)


LOL, incidentally, I've actually done something very similar.
It's a tedious process isn't it?

If there are no preservatives, dermestid beetles are better.

They really are when they're an option. The alternative is...Ugh...tedious.

This was, as I said, in 9th grade biology. Looking back, it had such learning potential, and it was such a freakin' waste.

And, yeah, formaldehyde. This was way back in the day, when school was uphill both ways and it snowed year-round.

Anyhow, it's an entertaining description of an extra-large stock pot, one that (to forcibly drag this somewhat back on topic) is large enough to hold an entire turkey carcass -- after I've picked off all the meat, which I then froze in 1 to 2 lb bags, of course.  That's chicken soup/pozole/caldo tlalpeño for the next few months, right there.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: fredbear on December 11, 2019, 07:44:24 PM
Ooh, this reminds me of a not-safe-for-easily-disturbed-cat-owner-story:

[spoiler]I had to skeletize a (preserved) cat in 9th grade biology (...

LOL, incidentally, I've actually done something very similar.
It's a tedious process isn't it?

I did the head of a pronghorn, and was peremptorily sent outside for the boiling, which stank.  And was very slow.  I ended up fashioning canopic hooks to fish out the cranial bits, in a not very effective attempt to accelerate the process.  I ended with H2O2, but all I could get is the supermarket 3%, not the bone-bleaching 35% you get from a supply house.  It's there with bike-commuting 6 miles at -10F; I have done it.   
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on December 11, 2019, 07:53:30 PM
Ooh, this reminds me of a not-safe-for-easily-disturbed-cat-owner-story:

[spoiler]I had to skeletize a (preserved) cat in 9th grade biology (...

LOL, incidentally, I've actually done something very similar.
It's a tedious process isn't it?

I did the head of a pronghorn, and was peremptorily sent outside for the boiling, which stank.  And was very slow.  I ended up fashioning canopic hooks to fish out the cranial bits, in a not very effective attempt to accelerate the process.  I ended with H2O2, but all I could get is the supermarket 3%, not the bone-bleaching 35% you get from a supply house.  It's there with bike-commuting 6 miles at -10F; I have done it.

Check back in with me at -40 ;)
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: fredbear on December 11, 2019, 08:32:33 PM

Check back in with me at -40 ;)

I check.  I'll see you but not lower you.  I've been outside at -40F but certainly not bicycling, first on a moonlight hike to see the Gunnison River smoking and floe-crusted in the moonlight.  Lovely, even romantic, but the air burnt through your jeans - actually seemed to activate burn-receptor nerves.  Much of the rest of the evening was trying to get cars running, and the final part was driving down toward Silverton with lights on high beam, heater on warp 10, the rear window defroster toasting away, radio alternately picking up one of the 50000W rock stations from Oklahoma City or Tiajuana, and (when the ionosphere was up for it) producing odd fragments of Navajo from a station down on the Res.  All this load, plus the inefficiency of the alternator (for all I know the belt was too cold to move) meant that about the time we got into Silverton the battery went dead even though we'd been driving, so it was a black-dark motel search at about 3AM, wondering how I would solve it the next morning when first light was on the crags and it had warmed up 10 degrees or so.

If you were biking at -40F I yield the thread, now and forever.  Over to you, Miss.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on December 11, 2019, 08:56:51 PM

Check back in with me at -40 ;)

I check.  I'll see you but not lower you.  I've been outside at -40F but certainly not bicycling, first on a moonlight hike to see the Gunnison River smoking and floe-crusted in the moonlight.  Lovely, even romantic, but the air burnt through your jeans - actually seemed to activate burn-receptor nerves.  Much of the rest of the evening was trying to get cars running, and the final part was driving down toward Silverton with lights on high beam, heater on warp 10, the rear window defroster toasting away, radio alternately picking up one of the 50000W rock stations from Oklahoma City or Tiajuana, and (when the ionosphere was up for it) producing odd fragments of Navajo from a station down on the Res.  All this load, plus the inefficiency of the alternator (for all I know the belt was too cold to move) meant that about the time we got into Silverton the battery went dead even though we'd been driving, so it was a black-dark motel search at about 3AM, wondering how I would solve it the next morning when first light was on the crags and it had warmed up 10 degrees or so.

If you were biking at -40F I yield the thread, now and forever.  Over to you, Miss.

Jeans??? Who wears jeans in -40????
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: G-dog on December 11, 2019, 09:13:25 PM

Check back in with me at -40 ;)

I check.  I'll see you but not lower you.  I've been outside at -40F but certainly not bicycling, first on a moonlight hike to see the Gunnison River smoking and floe-crusted in the moonlight.  Lovely, even romantic, but the air burnt through your jeans - actually seemed to activate burn-receptor nerves.  Much of the rest of the evening was trying to get cars running, and the final part was driving down toward Silverton with lights on high beam, heater on warp 10, the rear window defroster toasting away, radio alternately picking up one of the 50000W rock stations from Oklahoma City or Tiajuana, and (when the ionosphere was up for it) producing odd fragments of Navajo from a station down on the Res.  All this load, plus the inefficiency of the alternator (for all I know the belt was too cold to move) meant that about the time we got into Silverton the battery went dead even though we'd been driving, so it was a black-dark motel search at about 3AM, wondering how I would solve it the next morning when first light was on the crags and it had warmed up 10 degrees or so.

If you were biking at -40F I yield the thread, now and forever.  Over to you, Miss.

Jeans??? Who wears jeans in -40????

Well I am not wearing shorts!  I’d be wearing jeans because that is the warmest thing I have.  Maybe now with tights, leggings, or thermal underwear underneath.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Dee18 on December 12, 2019, 07:12:46 AM
Just happened to notice that Williams Sonoma is having a big sale on Le Creuset and Staub today, with some items 50% off.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: RetiredAt63 on December 12, 2019, 07:54:19 AM
Jeans are the worst in cold.  Really, cotton in general. Wool or synthetics all the way.  That includes the thermal underwear.  Silk is also good for thermal underwear.

Worst cold story. Many years ago we were being typical winter Canadians,  going to a Club Med. It was -42C with a wind chill of -52C at Mirabel, and the plane wouldn't start.  We left more than an hour late and missed the connecting flight.

The silver lining was that the Club Med staff put us all in a bar with free drinks while they found flights for us.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: mountain mustache on December 12, 2019, 08:45:20 AM

Check back in with me at -40 ;)

I check.  I'll see you but not lower you.  I've been outside at -40F but certainly not bicycling, first on a moonlight hike to see the Gunnison River smoking and floe-crusted in the moonlight.  Lovely, even romantic, but the air burnt through your jeans - actually seemed to activate burn-receptor nerves.  Much of the rest of the evening was trying to get cars running, and the final part was driving down toward Silverton with lights on high beam, heater on warp 10, the rear window defroster toasting away, radio alternately picking up one of the 50000W rock stations from Oklahoma City or Tiajuana, and (when the ionosphere was up for it) producing odd fragments of Navajo from a station down on the Res.  All this load, plus the inefficiency of the alternator (for all I know the belt was too cold to move) meant that about the time we got into Silverton the battery went dead even though we'd been driving, so it was a black-dark motel search at about 3AM, wondering how I would solve it the next morning when first light was on the crags and it had warmed up 10 degrees or so.

If you were biking at -40F I yield the thread, now and forever.  Over to you, Miss.

I have never experienced a cold quite like Gunnison River valley cold. I have several friends who live there and love it, but I stick to the warmer parts of the CO high desert!
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: deborah on December 12, 2019, 01:25:09 PM
This is supposed to be a thread about choosing cookware. How did we get to clothing for cold weather?
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on December 12, 2019, 01:39:30 PM
This is supposed to be a thread about choosing cookware. How did we get to clothing for cold weather?

Or about using bugs to eat the flesh off of skeletons of animals.

It's the MMM forums, this is how our threads go here. It's like the best part of this place.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: fredbear on December 12, 2019, 03:42:31 PM
This is supposed to be a thread about choosing cookware. How did we get to clothing for cold weather?

Or about using bugs to eat the flesh off of skeletons of animals.

It's the MMM forums, this is how our threads go here. It's like the best part of this place.

I can take the hint.  How about "When I've got a mule deer head to flense, I like

https://www.amazon.com/Norpro-649-Stainless-12-Quart-Roaster/dp/B000SSYY7O/ref=sr_1_51?keywords=roasting+pan&qid=1576190217&sr=8-51

because it keeps those expensive dermestid beetles on the job, without any chance to escape into the rest of the kitchen and denude my turkey leftovers."
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Cranky on December 13, 2019, 05:29:59 AM
A few years ago, a popular school project was mummifying a chicken. I never could get our science teacher to try it, and I even had an anthropology grad student lined up to help.

I did buy dh a book on how to make dinosaur skeletons out of chicken bones, though.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: RetiredAt63 on December 13, 2019, 07:17:40 AM
A few years ago, a popular school project was mummifying a chicken. I never could get our science teacher to try it, and I even had an anthropology grad student lined up to help.

I did buy dh a book on how to make dinosaur skeletons out of chicken bones, though.

Sounds like a cool book.  Of course chickens are dinosaurs.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: roomtempmayo on December 23, 2019, 09:04:53 AM
The Lodge is a great value.  I've had mine for over a decade of regular use, and it's been great.

But Staub is also great.  I now have two of them, and I'm not tempted to buy another Lodge.  The interior of the Staubs has worn much better than the Lodge, and they're a more refined vessel from the tapered sidewalls to the shape of the handles.

Buy whatever you want and damn the torpedo's!

But seriously if this is something that you use regularly to do something as fundamental as feeding yourself it feels liek a halfway decent investment. $300 for a pot is a lot of money, but if it lasts for 15+ years does not sound bad to me.

Like @ Jon Bon says, the cost of cookware is barely a blip in your longterm budget.  Buy whatever makes you most likely to enjoy cooking and eating your own cooking.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: freya on December 28, 2019, 08:31:27 AM
You say you have a new apartment sized stove?  Did you recently move and this came with the place, or did you downgrade stoves? I suppose a new pricey soup pot is less than a new stove, but if you’re going to have to replace a lot of things to fit the new stove, I would consider selling the stove and getting a stove that supports your cooking habits.  Cooking from scratch is so important that I would consider that worth it. If it’s only the soup pot that won’t fit, then ignore this.

Exactly what I was thinking.

I've cooked on apartment size (24") stoves most of my adult life, until I moved into my current apartment which has a standard (30") stove.  The difference is breathtaking.  If you're big into cooking (I am too), and can possibly upgrade to a full size stove, you should consider that.  Otherwise, if you're cooking on a 24" stovetop you are going to have to compromise on batch size. There's no such thing as an 8 quart pot that will fit on that stove.   Even if you somehow found a narrow, tall pot that will fit, it won't cook the same way as the 8 quart pots you have now.

The answer, for you, is to find alternatives to using your stovetop.  One hack I use frequently is to turn my oven into a slow cooker by setting it on low temperature of 200 or less - if that's possible with your stove.  It also requires that your large pots be oven safe - are they?  Otherwise, just get yourself a good quality electric slow cooker...although I much prefer the oven method as it heats more evenly, whereas slow cookers heat only on the bottom.

You could also buy a sufficiently large portable induction burner (if your pots are induction compatible) or regular electric burner.  Check that you have an appropriate circuit in your kitchen to handle the load.

Finally here's a crazy idea:  is there a griddle top accessory for your stove that covers at least 2, preferably all 4 burners?  Assuming it gets hot enough you can then put your soup pot on that.   Since soups are typically low temperature adventures once brought to simmer, this should work fine.
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: KBecks on May 02, 2020, 11:55:13 AM
Reviving this thread to chime in and report that we are the owners of a fancy-dancy 7.5 quart Lodge enameled cast iron dutch oven in red.  It was under $100 at Target and is now in use with a load of french onion soup.

My spouse decided this morning that he wanted to a) make more soups and b) get the fancy-dancy dutch oven. And he wanted a big one. Right now. Being that he wanted it TODAY, we went with the Lodge and Target because one was available to purchase. So, yay.  Macy's has the Le Creuset but they are closed as far as I know.

I was starting to explain to him the Staub brand and how we could have gone super duper fancy schmancy dancy.  But, he agreed that this Lodge is just fine.  No report on the taste tests yet but perhaps down the road we will try the finer brands, too,
Title: Re: Oh no...I have an expensive cookware problem :(
Post by: Metalcat on May 02, 2020, 12:37:15 PM
Well, if we're going to revive this thread, I'll let everyone know that I went the @Zikoris route and just modified my cooking pattern.

Ultimately, the only real solution was to upgrade to a larger stove, which I don't want to do as where the stove is in the kitchen it right, which is why the former owners obviously put in an apartment size. Also, I like the small oven, it heats up so quickly and I never use it for anything large.

So instead, I use my a Staub on the induction element and the copper pot on the stove. I've learned how to get the copper pot to work on one of the elements, it takes some damn time, but if I strategize, then it works just fine.

However, if I can ever find a small stove with more powerful elements, that's what I'm getting.