non-mustachian wedding views (the parents)

[nereo]

I have written and deleted this post several times, because I am continually conflicted about what to do.

Here's our situation.  My fiancée are frugal by nature, savers by habit and even before discovering this blog we've been gradually moving towards our own form of mustachian lifestyle.  We are also getting married this fall.

To us, we've been 'de-facto married' for years, since we live together, share our finances and lives, and even have a legal common-law status.  But the wedding is official for our families and as an expression to them as our love.  In the last several years we've both been to weddings of friends that bordered on ludicrous, and we've both had sibblings go through the "bride-zilla" complex, all while trying to stay respectful and biting our tongues.  Most of the elaborate, expensive weddings involved untold drama for weeks and ultimately didn't seem to be all that much fun for the guests or the bridge/groom.

So - for our wedding plans we've tried to take a much more laid-back and "friend-friendly" approach. 

Here's where it gets tricky.  Early on we set a budget for ourselves of $4,000 (which I know some mustachians would face-punch us for, but that was our decision).  It pails in comparison to the $20k+ cost for the wedding of each of our older siblings.
She has a dress from a consignment shop, our friends volunteered to do music and DJing (without us ever asking), and the venue is a conservation center that's inexpensive, meaningful to both of us, has all the facilities we need and the proceeds all go to youth education. 
Her family has insisted on paying for over half the expenses, even though that wasn't necessary.  It was clear that they wanted to do it, so we've accepted.

Then, much later in the process, my parents have generously said that they put funds away for our wedding years ago.  They too want to contribute.  Both sets of parents are FI and mine are retired with their financial lives secured (and then some). 

Our problem is that, at virtually every turn we are being encouraged to spend more, do more, or have more.  We've told them we want a simple wedding, and that we want it to be as environmentally friendly as possible and we've had conversations with my parents about how we feel the wedding industry has gotten out of whack, and we don't need or want to follow all of it's 'advice'.  Then a day later they balk about our decision to personally call of our guests to tell them to "save-the-date" and they offer instead to have a stationary store print and mail notices at their expense.  We are hiring a young friend of ours who is just setting up her photography studio to shoot our wedding, and my dear mother is looking into hiring a second photographer "because two photographers are more likely to cover the ground".

The biggest surprise is that my parents constantly tell me that we should "have the wedding we want, and not cave to what everyone else wants."  However, what's become clear throughout all of this is that they are more rigid and set in their ideas than I ever thought they were before.

So mustachians - what to do here?  Oddly, money isn't really an issue here.  I could accept many of the proposed changes and they would happily pay for all of them.  It wouldn't be quite what we had envisioned, but in the end this wedding is as much for our families as it is for my fiancée and me.
Is stubbornly sticking to our somewhat unorthedox version of a wedding selfish?  how do I balance what my parents envision (and want to pay for) over our belief that a wedding does not need to cost tens of thousands of $$, and shouldn't be an excuse for needless consumerism ?

[innkeeper77]

Interestingly, my Fiancée and I are having the exact same problem. In fact, the language of  "have the wedding we want, and not cave to what everyone else wants." has been extremely common, and aggravating, as it is usually said to one of us in response to what we just said we wanted, when what we wanted was simple and economically ideal for everyone. (Such as wearing shoes the bridesmaids already owned as opposed to buying new ones). We ended up compromising on almost everything, and spending most on good food, and we have done out best to set up a day that is more like a big get together than an obscenely expensive theater production. 

I don't think keeping the wedding unorthodox is selfish, but I also think that caving in some areas (but not others) will help keep the peace among families, and may truly make those making the demands happy in some cases.

Best of luck!

[rockstache]

It sounds to me like maybe you should stop discussing all the details with them. The general rule is if they are paying, they get to have some say, and if they aren't then they don't.

I caved a lot on my wedding plans (mostly the guest list) to my MIL and I really wish I didn't. I had an amazing wedding, but the size of it was out of control and I had to introduce myself to half the people there (and so did DH because he didn't know them either). I recommend you stick to your guns, albeit politely and with a smile, "Thanks, but this is exactly what we want," and repeat.

[Greg]

This happens more than you might realize. 

If I were you I'd accept any money as gifts, but be explicit before and after that you'll still have a celebration that suits you and your values.  If they object, offer to return the money.

After such a long relationship, you know what's important to you, and that's what matters.  It's hard for older generations to keep up with younger generations' values on things like this, particularly this it seems. 

Stick to your guns, so to speak.

[medeforest]

First, congratulations on the economical dress!  That's a huge win right there.  Your venue suits your values, another win.

Mull this over: Sit down with your SO and figure out how much you are comfortable having others "invest" in your wedding.  Come up with a concrete number.  Then kindly, gently, and lovingly, explain to the parents the amount that you would feel honored accepting.  If they feel compelled to spend more, suggest that instead, they put it toward the grandchildren's college fund.  (Having children?? Wild assumption here.)  It will be worth a TON when the kids are ready to invest in their educations.

[smalllife]

I will likely be in the same situation one day as I would prefer not to have any wedding celebration at all (weddings are a private union between two people, not a public spectacle - but that's just my opinion), but that would probably cause a huge family rift that I just don't want to deal with.  Let us know how it ends up!

[nereo]

Interestingly, my Fiancée and I are having the exact same problem. In fact, the language of  "have the wedding we want, and not cave to what everyone else wants." has been extremely common, and aggravating, as it is usually said to one of us in response to what we just said we wanted, when what we wanted was simple and economically ideal for everyone. (Such as wearing shoes the bridesmaids already owned as opposed to buying new ones). We ended up compromising on almost everything, and spending most on good food, and we have done out best to set up a day that is more like a big get together than an obscenely expensive theater production. 
Best of luck!

This does sound very much like our situation.  Congrats on your wedding, btw.  It's incredibly frustrating when your own parents advise you to "do what's right for you" and then two sentences later say that they think you are being overly concerned with keeping costs down and they are going to call and hire a flourist - right now!"

I think there are two core issues - first they think they are open minded about weddings when the reality is that they are much more conservative than they realize.  I'm not sure how to address that
The second issue is a persistent misunderstanding about the value of "things" to us.  As a couple, we judge the things we buy based on how much value they add to our lives.  We also believe that you have to measure he hidden costs of the "things" you buy - including their environmental cost, storage cost, disposal costs.
so they don't see a problem with hiring a stationary store to send out save-the-date invitations since they are offering to pay.  We see it as less personal than actually calling our guests, a waste of money, and enviornmentally unfriendly (lots of paper from trees being hand delivered all over the world).
Funny you mentioned the shoes - my fiancée also wants to use shoes she has and will wear again. 

[nereo]

I will likely be in the same situation one day as I would prefer not to have any wedding celebration at all (weddings are a private union between two people, not a public spectacle - but that's just my opinion), but that would probably cause a huge family rift that I just don't want to deal with.  Let us know how it ends up!

smalllife:
I used to have a similar opinion that weddings were a private union between two people, but in the last five years i've altered my opinion somewhat.  Here's my reasoning.  The wedding union itself is between you and your spouse.  But we are all part of a broader community of family and friends.  To many of them, they want to express their support, love, and joy for you.  I know that sounds corny.  For some families (and for our families it's particularly important to the grandparents) there has to be an actual ceremony in front of a priest or it's as if we're still just boyfriend/girlfriend and could break up at any time. 
So - for us at least the wedding and the vows are for us, whereas the celebration is at least in part for the benefit of our families and our friends.  that's where we are wrestling with these questions of what is and isn't appropriate, particualrly when the financial burden is being unexpectedly lifted from our shoulders.
Again - just the conclusions I've drawn since becoming engaged.

The most fun I've had at a wedding was one where my friends got married without anyone else there but the minister and the two sets of parents.  Everyone else got to hang out with the couple at the beach, where we had a cookout and games and just a chance to relax and have fun.  there wasn't even any music or "first dances" or anything like that.

[Noodle]

Perhaps your family is worrying that you are choosing not to have things that you might regret in retrospect because you are trying to keep the wedding modest. If you are inviting guests who are their generation, they may also notice things that older guests would appreciate. For instance, with the save-the-date calls, while I'm sure I would love to talk to you, if you were my friend, and hear your good news, I would also appreciate an actual written communication (now, for me, an e-vite would be fine). I am terrible at remembering details from phone calls. If I were married, being able to show or forward something in writing to spouse would be very handy.

Asking why they think X is important might help with some of these issues.

[ShortInSeattle]

Wedding money always comes with strings. *always*

Instead of accepting cash (and thus giving them a say in your plans), allow them to pay for something specific. Parents do like to contribute.

Can they pick up the tab for the cake, for example?

[MayDay]

Man, I wish my mom would have planned my wedding for me! She gave me a check and made me do all the work! 

To me, the details don't matter, flowers, who cares, extra photographer, sure, fine. As long as I am not paying, I say let her do all she wants.

Me = worlds laziest event planner. 

My point is, this is probably not worth much mental energy. Make the plans, get it done, and then stop worrying about it and discussing it.

[smalllife]

I will likely be in the same situation one day as I would prefer not to have any wedding celebration at all (weddings are a private union between two people, not a public spectacle - but that's just my opinion), but that would probably cause a huge family rift that I just don't want to deal with.  Let us know how it ends up!

smalllife:
I used to have a similar opinion that weddings were a private union between two people, but in the last five years i've altered my opinion somewhat.  Here's my reasoning.  The wedding union itself is between you and your spouse.  But we are all part of a broader community of family and friends.  To many of them, they want to express their support, love, and joy for you.  I know that sounds corny.  For some families (and for our families it's particularly important to the grandparents) there has to be an actual ceremony in front of a priest or it's as if we're still just boyfriend/girlfriend and could break up at any time. 
So - for us at least the wedding and the vows are for us, whereas the celebration is at least in part for the benefit of our families and our friends.  that's where we are wrestling with these questions of what is and isn't appropriate, particualrly when the financial burden is being unexpectedly lifted from our shoulders.
Again - just the conclusions I've drawn since becoming engaged.

The most fun I've had at a wedding was one where my friends got married without anyone else there but the minister and the two sets of parents.  Everyone else got to hang out with the couple at the beach, where we had a cookout and games and just a chance to relax and have fun.  there wasn't even any music or "first dances" or anything like that.

I'm not religious, so there would be no minister or any of that.   If I could have a celebration with friends and only the close family I like, that would be a different story.  It's the social obligation to invite the entire extended family that exists which I would just prefer to ignore completely.  We'll see.   I don't like being the center of attention or having to deal with large, loud parties - much less one that my mother is emotionally invested in.  If I could have friends and no family (plus a dinner for immediate family + grandparent) that would be ideal . .  but not a "wedding".  Your last paragraph sounds awesome, and more along the lines of what I would consider a decent compromise.

[tmac]

I had the same issue with my ex-in-laws, who insisted on paying. They wanted 600 people at a huge hotel. Ice sculptures. Hell, no.

The solution was to book the wedding on a schooner. A big, old, sailboat out in the harbor at sunset. The boat owner required a small guest list (85), and that we use one of their two approved caterers (who provided the simple floral arrangement). I had my dress made (at their fancy-schmancy dressmaker, but it was very simple). I hired a photographer (which they insisted on) who specialized in a black-and-white photojournalistic style. We used their religious officiant, but she was OK with doing a purely secular ceremony.

They weren't over the moon happy about it, but they accepted it.

[the fixer]

Weddings are a slippery slope, because the more you add the more you're tempted to pile on top.

My advice is to keep it SIMPLE: it's a party with friends and family, plus a little ceremony between bride, groom & officiator. That's it.

No walk down an aisle. No "special people" (bridesmaids, best men, singers, professional photographers, etc). No special pre-parties like bachelor parties, rehearsals, and so on. Only things that fit the context of "party" should be included: location, guests, food, cake, even a DJ if you want (for our post-wedding party I just threw together a mix CD and played it on a boom box).

The problem you're running into is you're being dragged down to wedding-land from party-land. Oh there's bridesmaids, well do they all need matching dresses? Do they just have to be the same color, or should they all be exactly the same dress?? What about matching shoes??? Forget all of it and just throw a party.

[nereo]

Weddings are a slippery slope, because the more you add the more you're tempted to pile on top.

My advice is to keep it SIMPLE: it's a party with friends and family, plus a little ceremony between bride, groom & officiator. That's it.

No walk down an aisle. No "special people" (bridesmaids, best men, singers, professional photographers, etc).

The problem you're running into is you're being dragged down to wedding-land from party-land. Oh there's bridesmaids, well do they all need matching dresses? Do they just have to be the same color, or should they all be exactly the same dress?? What about matching shoes??? Forget all of it and just throw a party.

that's more in line what we are trying to do.  The questions we are daily asked are things like "have you decided how many bridesmaids you are having?" (not "are you having bridesmaids")
Even after going to several weddings I have no idea what groomsmen do.  People keep answering that the best man "holds the ring" (susprise!  she's sticking with her engagement ring only, and doens't want a second ring.) and "keeps the groom from running away".  I don't see the need for either.  That and "they need to balance the number of bridesmaids so they each have someone. (ridiculous).
Near as I can tell bridesmaids are often unpaid servants to the bride on her wedding day. 

Yes we just want to throw a party, where it is comfortable for our friends and family to mingle.  we chose the site because it allows for games and hiking and lots of spots where groups from 2-12 can gather, talk, eat and have fun.
But since I want my parents and grandparents to enjoy it too...
.... where to draw the line. 

[nereo]

Wedding money always comes with strings. *always*

Instead of accepting cash (and thus giving them a say in your plans), allow them to pay for something specific. Parents do like to contribute.

Can they pick up the tab for the cake, for example?

Thanks, I think this might be a really good suggestion.  Perhaps the best solution is to let my parents pay for specific things and if my mother really wants to just let her organize it as well (as she seems to really want to do).
But... surprise!  No cake at our wedding either.  Both of us prefer ice-cream over cake, and there's great locally made ice-cream, and it's in the late summer.  So, all of our guests will get a choice of different ice-cream flavors, with toppings!  Just another way we're bucking the trend (of course, the last question my mother asked me was "have you booked the bakery to make the wedding cake yet?  they need months of notice!" followed by "well how are you going to do the cake-cutting ceremony with ice-cream?")

[medeforest]

Yes we just want to throw a party, where it is comfortable for our friends and family to mingle.  we chose the site because it allows for games and hiking and lots of spots where groups from 2-12 can gather, talk, eat and have fun.
But since I want my parents and grandparents to enjoy it too...
.... where to draw the line.

Stop trying to please everyone. 

A good, deep prayer/meditation/self-reflection will help.  You and your future spouse agree on the magnitude of the wedding and that is wonderful!  Go to the parents and grandparents and have a conversation ... they have known you your whole life, ask them for their wise words.  Ask them what you are overlooking when you want to have a frugal wedding.  Ask them what they need to feel that the wedding is complete.  Listen with your heart.

[nereo]

Perhaps your family is worrying that you are choosing not to have things that you might regret in retrospect because you are trying to keep the wedding modest. If you are inviting guests who are their generation, they may also notice things that older guests would appreciate. For instance, with the save-the-date calls, while I'm sure I would love to talk to you, if you were my friend, and hear your good news, I would also appreciate an actual written communication (now, for me, an e-vite would be fine). I am terrible at remembering details from phone calls. If I were married, being able to show or forward something in writing to spouse would be very handy.

Asking why they think X is important might help with some of these issues.

I believe my parents thing that we are partly choosing a modest celebration because we don't have a lot of money to spend (and they do).  We've explained that saving towards FI is a goal of ours, and living on ~$25k/year is a lifestyle choice.  I've even mentioned MMM. The message never entirely sinks in though.  I'm certain they believe that if we suddenly had $100k paying jobs we'd realize "Oh, I don't need to be frugal anymore, now I can have the things I've always wanted!"
So their suggestions come out of love.  They want us to not be limited by finances for our wedding, and no matter how I phrase it they don't seem to understand that we wouldn't want to go to a rigid sit-down meal with table service even if money didn't factor into it.  As it is we're going pretty fancy-pants (in my view) by having a professional caterer with buffet service and cleanup, so all people have to do is choose what they want to eat. 

[the fixer]

FWIW what my wife and I did was elope on the side of Mt. Rainier. Those in attendance were the two of us, our officiator (a friend who got ordained online), and two witnesses. We held a party for the families a month later and we didn't have these problems, probably because the party wasn't being billed as a "wedding." Maybe that's your issue?

ETA: I'm not saying you need to go elope like we did, just that maybe your terminology is communicating the wrong expectations to your guests.

[gecko10x]

Most of the time weddings are for the parents/family. Or perhaps the ceremony is for you and the reception is for the family.
You have a vision of what you want, but your parents also have a vision of what their kids' weddings will be like. It's usually as big of a deal for them as it is for you, if not more so.

My advice would be to just let it go. Let them do what they want as long as it's within reason and you don't care, especially if they're paying.

[Insanity]

I actually didn't mind the wedding as much because it was the in-laws who paid for it, and anything my parents wanted they paid extra.  The issue became when we found the place we wanted and the max guest list was smaller than what was wanted to come.  My family is larger than my wife's and my family also has a lot more connections from the past (I can tell you that my family has kept more  friends from my child years then my wife does) so the comments were: But so and so's kids invited us to theirs (even though I haven't seen so and so in I don't know how many years).  But they were like family so they got invited.  We did have to make some sacrifices.

The other issue we had was sending invitations out to people we knew could not or would not make it.  There were a lot of fear over what would happen if they said yes.

[dragoncar]

My view, and it may be unpopular, is that weddings aren't really for you.  They are for your family.  You already alluded to this in your post.

If your parents are suggesting things that are way outside your values then I say push back and take control - like releasing doves or something you consider inhumane (I don't really know, just something more than "I don't want people to waste gas coming to my wedding").

But if it's just more than you would choose for yourself, and not a huge ethical problem, then I say let them have it their way and let them pay for it themselves.  This assumes they won't hold it over your head or just give you the cash in lieu of wedding assistance.

If you really want to have a small ceremony for personal reasons, you could consider having two - the small "real" one, and the big show one for your parents.

p.s. I dread the attention of having a big wedding

[Thegoblinchief]

We had a traditional church ceremony. Lots of people there, probably about 2-300.

We had a small dinner in a private dining room of a restaurant. No dance. No music. Maybe 50 people. Very intimate, and both families got to spend a lot of time TALKING. If it's about the "family" that's what it's about, right?

We planned the wedding remotely, flying in to where my in-laws lived to make some choices, but a lot of it was planned directly by my MIL.

[nereo]

My view, and it may be unpopular, is that weddings aren't really for you.  They are for your family.  You already alluded to this in your post.

If your parents are suggesting things that are way outside your values then I say push back and take control - like releasing doves or something you consider inhumane (I don't really know, just something more than "I don't want people to waste gas coming to my wedding").

But if it's just more than you would choose for yourself, and not a huge ethical problem, then I say let them have it their way and let them pay for it themselves.  This assumes they won't hold it over your head or just give you the cash in lieu of wedding assistance.

p.s. I dread the attention of having a big wedding

I dread the attention of a big wedding as well - we're expecting ~70 people and that seems like a huge focus on us.
I agree (in part) that weddings are for the family.  What's ironic is that the MOST common piece of advice I've been given, INCLUDING from both sets of parents that we should "do what we want".  Then they try to tell us what we want (without realizing it).
sheesh.  Whatever happened to asking the father for her hand in marriage, bartering about how many goats she was worth, and then maybe a keg of ale in a field if you were lucky?

[C. K.]

There is this backyard wedding planned in 17 days with all their near and dear as seen in A Practical Wedding.
http://apracticalwedding.com/2014/02/silverlake-backyard-wedding/

The mother-in-law was dying so that had to do things fast. The short time-frame eliminated a lot of the things (and discussions) they didn't want anyway.

Someone in the comments said they scrapped their original big wedding plans and planned one in three weeks. Again, short time-frame leads to fewer discussions about what you "need" in your wedding.

[DocCyane]

When my brother married, decades ago, I remember the bride's parents did not want to pay for an open bar. Or any bar for that matter. I recall my father saying that he could not invite friends and business associates and ask them to drink punch when he had attended their children's weddings and enjoyed good food, alcohol, music, etc.

So Dad paid for the bar. He wasn't happy about it.

But the lesson I learned is that everyone in the family has expectations and genuine needs for these events.

Maybe forgive your parents if they want nicer photos or more flowers. They've been waiting a long time for this too.

[vivian]

I agree that weddings are partly for family as well. That said, you do have to put things in perspective. You said you want your parents and grandparents to enjoy it. You know what, they will end up enjoying the day whether they get all the bonuses of the big traditional wedding or not.

In our wedding, we had a lot of drama over whether we would provide favors. I thought they were a waste and that no one would miss a little bag of candy or whatever after a nice party. Finally, I just told them to go ahead and do it since they would pay and organize it. Whenever they came to me to ask for opinions on the favors, I basically closed my eyes, pointed, and said, that one. That way I didn't have to stress out over the organizing and they felt involved in the planning.

[nereo]

I've been married now for 15 years. I remember almost nothing about that day except for the guy I married (always the most important part of the wedding) and the food (it had been a long day and I was hungry). Prior to the wedding I know there were some various family squabbles, but I don't remember the details and I certainly am glad that everything was settled to the satisfaction of various family factions - these are the people you'll spend your holidays with, so good to keep them happy overall.

Thank you.  It's funny how many people I've talked to who ahve been married for a long time say things like "the only thing i remember about my wedding was (insert funny, unplanned tidbit here)."  After 15-20 years most people can't seem to recall most of the things that garner so much attention, like the flower arrangements or what songs were played or even who came or didn't come.

I truly want to keep my family members happy since (as you mentioned) they will be the people I spend holidays with.  I think an earlier suggestion of allowing them to arrange some part of the wedding was a good one.  that will keep them busy and make them feel included while allowing us to keep most of the focus where we want it - on our friends and family being able to interact and ahve fun with us.

[nereo]

There is this backyard wedding planned in 17 days with all their near and dear as seen in A Practical Wedding.
http://apracticalwedding.com/2014/02/silverlake-backyard-wedding/

The mother-in-law was dying so that had to do things fast. The short time-frame eliminated a lot of the things (and discussions) they didn't want anyway.

Someone in the comments said they scrapped their original big wedding plans and planned one in three weeks. Again, short time-frame leads to fewer discussions about what you "need" in your wedding.

The most fun I've had at a wedding was the one I went to at a beach in New England. It was planned in under 6 weeks and it was great. The couple rented two beach-houses at rock-bottom prices (off-season) and guests had a place to stay, things to do and time to interact.
As much as we'd like to, we can't do that.  First, our families are all over the country and have inflexible schedules.  In fact, when we announced we had set a date 7 months in advance, we got some instant (and a bit harsh) blowback. "OMG, that's so soon!  Can you plan a wedding that fast?  I"m not sure I'll be able to get the time off, I wish you had told me months ago!  We have jobs and limited vacations and our daughter will need daycare and there's a waiting list... "  These are verbatim what various family members said to us.

In a sense it's been a real eye-opener how rigid some people perceive their lives to be.  If anything it's doubled our resolve to become FI before 40.  The idea that we might feel so trapped by work and debt and limiting schedules that we would feel we couldn't make a dear-friends wedding half a year in advance is terrifying to me.

[nereo]

When my brother married, decades ago, I remember the bride's parents did not want to pay for an open bar. Or any bar for that matter. I recall my father saying that he could not invite friends and business associates and ask them to drink punch when he had attended their children's weddings and enjoyed good food, alcohol, music, etc.

So Dad paid for the bar. He wasn't happy about it.

But the lesson I learned is that everyone in the family has expectations and genuine needs for these events.

Maybe forgive your parents if they want nicer photos or more flowers. They've been waiting a long time for this too.

We probably should (and will try to) lighten up some about my parents preconcieved notions.  I'm planning out small pieces of our wedding that she can spearhead (she loves to do these projects) that will still allow us to have the wedding we want.

Alcohol has been another tricky subject.  My father has offered to pay for open bar service, but there are substance abuse problems on the other half of the family.  Our approach has been that we will have beer and wine provided during dinner and serviced by a trained bartender who will be instructed to not serve anyone who's drunk.  We'll probably cap it off at 2 drinks per person.  It won't make everyone happy but previous family gatherings with alcohol have ended with drunken fights and yelling. 

[C. K.]

In a sense it's been a real eye-opener how rigid some people perceive their lives to be.  If anything it's doubled our resolve to become FI before 40.  The idea that we might feel so trapped by work and debt and limiting schedules that we would feel we couldn't make a dear-friends wedding half a year in advance is terrifying to me.

Yep. FI is all about freedom. The best to you both.

-- C.K.

[lifejoy]

My heart goes out to you! You pretty much described the exact situation I will find myself in one day.

Well-meaning parents, brainwashed by the WIC :)

Best of luck, and at the end of the day - you're married! I'm definitely bookmarking this thread, btw.

[Silvie]

It's YOUR wedding, and it should be YOUR perfect day, not your parents'. They've had their own wedding.

Maybe it's an American thing to have your parents invite their friends and other people you don't know, but in Holland that would never happen. People acknowledge and respect that your wedding day is YOUR day and you should be the only ones to decide how you want to spend your unique, once-in-a-lifetime day.

[zinnie]

I just wanted to offer a personal experience: Five years after our wedding my dad still frequently comments that it was one of his happiest days. We picked the things that really mattered to us, like writing the ceremony to align with our values and choosing the music, and we DIY'd a ton of things, but we still did a traditional $20,000+ deal because it is what the family expected and what my dad wanted to pay for. My dad loved it--he loved paying for it, and he loved seeing the two families have such a great time.

Our reception was not the place to do some sort of show of our true thrifty values (heck, my dad has the same values in daily life). My parents threw us the type of wedding we wanted, but it was still them throwing the party and I wasn't about to take that away from them by making specific requests about how much everything should cost.

Parents may not plan to pay for their children's weddings or may want to but may not have the money. At that point I absolutely would have paid myself and had a very different type of party. But in my situation I couldn't see trying to proscribe a specific budget on my father when he was the one who wanted to throw the party for us and our families. KWIM? It turned out great, we had a great time, and it was ONE day. It was the ONE elaborate and expensive party he will ever throw in his life.

I always see a lot of commentary on this subject that says that couples should be able to do exactly what they want because it is their wedding. I am sure all cultures treat this differently, but in ones where the parents plan to/ want to be the ones throwing the party there is still something to be said for letting them contribute in the way they want to and not making it just about what I/ we want. It almost seems like there is this trend of making weddings the couples' declaration of their values to the world, when I really just see it as a party for your family/friends to celebrate your marriage. If you're throwing it, by all means be as thrifty as you want. But if someone else is contributing? Let them be a part of the conversation...

[the fixer]

I agree that it seems weird for a father to expect that he could invite his friends. We had some neighborhood friends of my in-laws show up to our party, and I was a little worried about it at first, but it wasn't a big deal. If they had some expectation of what it would be like, they shouldn't have shown up at all.

Our families had a great time meeting each other and talking, and it didn't require $20k to make it happen.

[lifejoy]

I agree that it seems weird for a father to expect that he could invite his friends. We had some neighborhood friends of my in-laws show up to our party, and I was a little worried about it at first, but it wasn't a big deal. If they had some expectation of what it would be like, they shouldn't have shown up at all.

Our families had a great time meeting each other and talking, and it didn't require $20k to make it happen.

I disagree - I can see why parents would want to invite their friends. Their friends have been there for them througout many milestones in their lives. Their own marriage, having kids, and now - their kid is getting married! It's an emotional time for parents (maybe) and I could see them wanting to have those same friends there, for support.

[mm1970]

How old are you?

You know, when I got married, I wanted a backyard wedding performed by my future FIL (a judge).  My husband wanted a bigger wedding, my mother wanted a priest.

I caved.

Because, well, it was easier than fighting about it.  My husband willingly paid the $10k price tag (he wanted the big wedding).  Had I not caved on the priest, I would have heard about it EVERY year I saw my mother (so she died in 2011, that would have been 15 years).  I decided to keep the peace.

But I was 26.  If I were to get married now, or any time after 35 really?  I would have done what I wanted and to heck with anyone else.  In my 20's, I decided to try and make everyone happy.  If I felt strongly about it, I stuck to my guns, but the things that didn't matter?  I let it go.

[lifejoy]

How old are you?

You know, when I got married, I wanted a backyard wedding performed by my future FIL (a judge).  My husband wanted a bigger wedding, my mother wanted a priest.

I caved.

Because, well, it was easier than fighting about it.  My husband willingly paid the $10k price tag (he wanted the big wedding).  Had I not caved on the priest, I would have heard about it EVERY year I saw my mother (so she died in 2011, that would have been 15 years).  I decided to keep the peace.

But I was 26.  If I were to get married now, or any time after 35 really?  I would have done what I wanted and to heck with anyone else.  In my 20's, I decided to try and make everyone happy.  If I felt strongly about it, I stuck to my guns, but the things that didn't matter?  I let it go.

Yep! I'm soon to be 26, and care way too much about making everyone (except me) happy.

[nereo]

...  If I were to get married now, or any time after 35 really?  I would have done what I wanted and to heck with anyone else.  In my 20's, I decided to try and make everyone happy.  If I felt strongly about it, I stuck to my guns, but the things that didn't matter?  I let it go.

Yep! I'm soon to be 26, and care way too much about making everyone (except me) happy.

Sounds a lot like myself - we seem to be worrying more about whether our guests will be having a good time than whether we will.  We have spent a lot of time trying to find a balance between what we consider a fun and sensible gathering of friends for our wedding and the completely ingrained (but well intentioned) expectations of our families.  So far we've allowed our mother to throw her a wedding shower (because for some reason that was really important to her, and besides the gift-giving we were neutral on the whole idea) and have mostly stayed with our vision of an outdoor celebration with good food, good wine, home made beer, local music and plenty for everyone to do (lawn games, swim/canoe/kayak, nature trails, dancing, etc).
here's to hoping it all goes well

[Cpa Cat]

I had a tiny wedding. Around 12 people attended. We had a best man and matron of honor who did not stand up with us, but did act as witnesses on the paperwork. Afterwards, we all went out to a restaurant and had a meal (nothing expensive). The whole thing cost my husband and I about $500 (mostly our rings; my dress was from the clearance rack at Sears - it was white, but not a "wedding dress"). The parents picked up the tab on the meal. In order to avoid any family drama, we didn't tell any of our invitees until a week beforehand (a couple of them got 24 hours notice, because we were worried they might manage to invite extra people, or make big plans during the week).

Wonderful. Perfect.

Fast forward 10 years. My husband's step mother decides she's going to throw us a 10th anniversary party. We tried to decline... but eventually relented. We asked her to keep it small.

She managed to organize a whole fake wedding at her house. There was a wedding cake, and a fancy car that said "Just Married" and flowers, and people we didn't know, and a photographer. She even invited my international family members.

And she announces she had to do it, because I never got a "real wedding". I was like: "W-T-F. Do you see me married? Seems real enough to me!"

So my advice is to relent on some of the stuff. Because these wedding weirdos never get off your back. Or don't. Because my minimalist real wedding was perfect. My fake wedding was kind of horrifying.

[ivyhedge]

To the OP:


Long before I settled on finance, I shot weddings in the DC area.  Please do not let anyone hire a second shooter. Your friend will bring one if she needs one. Logistically, it will be an horrid idea, with bodies and lenses everywhere, folks navigating the guest warrens (each principal could bring a second shooter), equipment bags around the perimeters of your rooms, etc.


For those who recommend not using a photographer. Carefully consider losing the ability to capture a/v of a special occasion. Some will disagree. But once you pass on the capture, it's gone (and novice guests - who should be enjoying the event - with their cameras or disposables often don't add much since they tend to reveal the same events).


And finally, as someone who once set up a photography business, compensate your friend above and beyond. She will benefit from your being one of her angel funders: good karma. Add a few things to the package you selected "just because".

[studentdoc2]

We had our wedding just a few months ago, and started to encounter some of the same problems. Our solution? We paid for the wedding ourselves, were upfront about the reasons for our choices, stuck to our choices, and planned the whole thing ourselves. We did consider and incorporate the wishes of our parents if they didn't conflict with anything we strongly believed, but ultimately the wedding was an expression of our relationship, beliefs, and convictions. Sure, there was a little family drama and some ruffled feathers along the way when we shared some of our non-traditional choices, but after the wedding, everyone told us how much they loved our offbeat, egalitarian, casual, feminist, secular wedding. I don't regret any of the decisions we made. We both were fully present in the day and remember it very well -- we specifically crafted a day that eliminated anything we didn't want or like so that we actually could enjoy our day.

I agree with some of the above posters that if you accept $$ from people, you are implicitly giving them a say. If they want to contribute, it's a good idea to ask them to help with something specific or to invite them to be participants with some sort of task (e.g., my mom gave a reading, his made a quilt for our chuppah).

I know some people say that a wedding is really for your family, and if you let it, it definitely becomes their celebration of your marriage. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but I definitely think if you pay and plan for it yourself, you can craft a day that is authentically you -- whatever that means. A wedding requires pretty much only requires two people declaring that they love each other and intend to share their lives together. End of story. The rest is just decoration. (and, hell, even the "two people" thing may not be strictly required, as in the case of a polyamorous relationship, but I digress).

[nereo]

To the OP:


Long before I settled on finance, I shot weddings in the DC area.  Please do not let anyone hire a second shooter. Your friend will bring one if she needs one. Logistically, it will be an horrid idea, with bodies and lenses everywhere, folks navigating the guest warrens (each principal could bring a second shooter), equipment bags around the perimeters of your rooms, etc.


For those who recommend not using a photographer. Carefully consider losing the ability to capture a/v of a special occasion. Some will disagree. But once you pass on the capture, it's gone (and novice guests - who should be enjoying the event - with their cameras or disposables often don't add much since they tend to reveal the same events).


And finally, as someone who once set up a photography business, compensate your friend above and beyond. She will benefit from your being one of her angel funders: good karma. Add a few things to the package you selected "just because".

Ivyhedge - thank you so much for the response.  We have indeed decided to hire our friend (who is a young professional photographer) and we have stuck to our guns about not hiring a second photographer.  we're also requesting family and friends NOT to take photos during our ceremony, as we hate to see everyone staring through their cameraphones & P&S cameras. Instead, guests will be able to see the photos online and order prints if they like.
We keep having moments where we second-guess whether this was a necessary expense, since it is the second most expensive line in our budget behind food for 60 people, but I do understand your point about the moment of capture.

One question:  we've agreed on the fee she suggested.  We will get the original RAW files and she will post selected images online for 1 year; anyone can order prints through the website and she gets a small amount from each print (we won't undercut her by giving the images away and letting people print them at CostCo) - now we are wondering what you would consider an appropriate tip for someone working for 6 hours. She is part of a small photography company (she's the youngest and most junior member - I think there are 4-5 photographers total in the business).  Does the 15-20% rule still hold for photographers?

[nereo]

I agree with some of the above posters that if you accept $$ from people, you are implicitly giving them a say. If they want to contribute, it's a good idea to ask them to help with something specific or to invite them to be participants with some sort of task (e.g., my mom gave a reading, his made a quilt for our chuppah).

We've found that including family certain family members has been the easiest way of keeping feathers from getting ruffled.  A bit ironic since they are less likely to complain about certain choices when asked to do work.
As ofr the money issue, I agree with you that accepting money implicitly gives others a say, however in our case NOT accepting money for certain aspects comes across as an insult.  we've tried to walk that fine line by allowing the parents to pay for very specific things and then including them on decisions about that aspect of the wedding.  For example, her parents are paying for the food, and she's involved in selecting the menu.  Not very hard since we are getting catered food from a restaraunt (basically like giant take-out portions) and we like almost all of i.  We've kept control of the venue, alcohol and entertainment by insisting that we want to pay for these.  So far it's worked out.

[rujancified]

Wedding money always comes with strings. *always*

Instead of accepting cash (and thus giving them a say in your plans), allow them to pay for something specific. Parents do like to contribute.

Can they pick up the tab for the cake, for example?

Thanks, I think this might be a really good suggestion.  Perhaps the best solution is to let my parents pay for specific things and if my mother really wants to just let her organize it as well (as she seems to really want to do).
But... surprise!  No cake at our wedding either.  Both of us prefer ice-cream over cake, and there's great locally made ice-cream, and it's in the late summer.  So, all of our guests will get a choice of different ice-cream flavors, with toppings!  Just another way we're bucking the trend (of course, the last question my mother asked me was "have you booked the bakery to make the wedding cake yet?  they need months of notice!" followed by "well how are you going to do the cake-cutting ceremony with ice-cream?")

I'm sorry, I'm sure it's not funny to you now, but I had a good laugh at that.

I got married 2 years ago and my parents (who are FI, but haven't retired) had money set aside* and really wanted us to have a "wedding." I put that in quotes because they had a very specific idea of what a wedding was, as did my ILs, as did my husband and I. None of those overlapped exactly. We talked about eloping or doing something small, but both sets of parents REALLY wanted a big shindig. We love our parents and wanted to make them happy, so giant wedding it was.

My father (!) ended up being the most traditional of all. He really wanted things a certain way and kept bringing things up that would have blown the budget. I eventually started sending him vendor invoices directly and saying, feel free to sign up for this if you think it's worth $X. None of those things ended up happening.

We did mini cupcakes and mason jar cobblers. People raved about them. No one missed the cake cutting ceremony. Personally, I've always hated the cake cutting ceremony because it cuts into dance/drink time.

*The money was strings-attached in that if we didn't have a wedding, we wouldn't get the money. If he'd offered us this amount of money to use as we wished, we'd have beefed up our house DP fund or investments. We're boring/smart like that.

[nereo]

My father (!) ended up being the most traditional of all. He really wanted things a certain way and kept bringing things up that would have blown the budget. I eventually started sending him vendor invoices directly and saying, feel free to sign up for this if you think it's worth $X. None of those things ended up happening.

We did mini cupcakes and mason jar cobblers. People raved about them. No one missed the cake cutting ceremony. Personally, I've always hated the cake cutting ceremony because it cuts into dance/drink time.

*The money was strings-attached in that if we didn't have a wedding, we wouldn't get the money. If he'd offered us this amount of money to use as we wished, we'd have beefed up our house DP fund or investments. We're boring/smart like that.

Ooh...  mason jar cobblers.  that sounds like a fantastic idea - if not for the wedding then for some other time (we're having a smaller casual grill session at a lake pavillion in lieu of the stodgy 'rehearsal dinner'). Were the cobblers baked directly in the mason jars?

What's been so enlightening to me is who in my family turns out to have the most traditional ideas about weddings.  I would normally describe my parents as liberal-leaning and very relaxed, but there is something about saying the word "wedding" that instantly triggers a cascade of thoughts and expectations in their heads.  Before now, I never would have suspected it.

yeah, a bit odd how such money comes with strings-attached.  my parents told us they were willing to contribute far more, but at the expense of it all going towards thigns we didn't really want, like the second photographer or table service.  By politely declining we get to have more of the ceremony we want, and they keep all their money.  I guess that's fair :-)  Our use for it would be exceedingly dull - paying off the last of our student loans.

[socaso]

You missing the opportunity to be the first Mustachian Bridezilla couple. Whenever anyone starts pressuring you to spend more money you throw a fit. "IT'S MY DAY!!" "YOU ARE RUINING MY DREAM WEDDING!!" This seems to work well for people who want to spend more money so why can't it work for the rest of us?

Seriously, though, it sound like you have a very clear vision of what you want and it is your dream and I think you can totally play that card when you start getting pressure.

[neo von retorch]

As a 35 yo single man, I'd like to say "you're all welcome for not having to travel, schedule and spend money on a wedding once again this year. please send thank you gifts to my registry... here."

[nereo]

I had a tiny wedding. Around 12 people attended. ...
Wonderful. Perfect.

Fast forward 10 years. My husband's step mother decides she's going to throw us a 10th anniversary party. We tried to decline... but eventually relented. We asked her to keep it small.

She managed to organize a whole fake wedding at her house. There was a wedding cake, and a fancy car that said "Just Married" and flowers, and people we didn't know, and a photographer. She even invited my international family members.

And she announces she had to do it, because I never got a "real wedding". I was like: "W-T-F. Do you see me married? Seems real enough to me!"

So my advice is to relent on some of the stuff. Because these wedding weirdos never get off your back. Or don't. Because my minimalist real wedding was perfect. My fake wedding was kind of horrifying.

Cpa Cat - I literally laughed while reading your post.  Several times I've been confronted with questions like "shouldn't you have ___ if this is going to be a real wedding?"  I keep having the same internal reaction - "WTF - how is our union not a *real* wedding if we don't include (insert wedding tradition here, like a cake-cutting ceremony)
I'm morbidly facinated by your 10 year anniversary designed to look like a traditional wedding, with a cake and photogrpaher and flowers.  Did you wear another dress from Sears?  This seems as strange to me as if someone decided to throw me a graduation party now, 10 years later.  I hope there were some good memories involved.

[nereo]

You missing the opportunity to be the first Mustachian Bridezilla couple. Whenever anyone starts pressuring you to spend more money you throw a fit. "IT'S MY DAY!!" "YOU ARE RUINING MY DREAM WEDDING!!" This seems to work well for people who want to spend more money so why can't it work for the rest of us?

Seriously, though, it sound like you have a very clear vision of what you want and it is your dream and I think you can totally play that card when you start getting pressure.

Never thought about it in that way - being a reverse-bridezilla couple, insisting that "IT'S MY DAY, and we are going to spend as little money as I demand we not spend!"
side note: my un-mustachian sister is aghast that I plan on wearing the same dressy shoes that I bought for my SIL's wedding, because they aren't new (!)  I've worn them twice so far. Just another way my choices seem to be upsetting the status-quo.