Please tell me about cars.

[Kwill]

Thank you for the notes, @Metalcat  There's one used car dealership in walking distance, and I need to go near there for the post office this morning. Seems like a good first place to look. They have a 2012 Corolla ($7995 with 146,179 miles), 2013 Corolla ($9495 with 164,684 miles), and 2016 Ford Focus Hatchback ($5995 with 141,302 miles). The dealership provides the Carfax reports for the 2013 and 2016 ones online, and they both look good. Is it likely the Focus is that much cheaper than the 2013 Corolla because the Corolla is a more popular brand? Looking up the Focus reviews, it seems like 2016 was a better year than the previous few years in terms of reliability, and it looks like they went back to normal automatic transmissions from the 2016 ones.

I'm still waiting to hear from various FB marketplace ones. They really seem reluctant to share VIN numbers so far.

[Metalcat]

Thank you for the notes, @Metalcat  There's one used car dealership in walking distance, and I need to go near there for the post office this morning. Seems like a good first place to look. They have a 2012 Corolla ($7995 with 146,179 miles), 2013 Corolla ($9495 with 164,684 miles), and 2016 Ford Focus Hatchback ($5995 with 141,302 miles). The dealership provides the Carfax reports for the 2013 and 2016 ones online, and they both look good. Is it likely the Focus is that much cheaper than the 2013 Corolla because the Corolla is a more popular brand? Looking up the Focus reviews, it seems like 2016 was a better year than the previous few years in terms of reliability, and it looks like they went back to normal automatic transmissions from the 2016 ones.

I'm still waiting to hear from various FB marketplace ones. They really seem reluctant to share VIN numbers so far.

At those prices and ages I would absolutely pick a Japanese brand over an American one. When I buy American cars, I buy them very young because they don't last that long. Mine was 3 years old with extremely low mileage, it was practically a new car. Which matters a lot in rusty locations.

It's 6 years old now, but I know what it's care and maintenance history has been because I'm the one doing it. I rust proof it every year, I get it checked twice a year before each long road trip. I wouldn't trust an older American car, and 141K miles is more than I would want on a Ford if I wanted it to be reliable. High mileage for a Japanese car is a VERY different thing than high mileage for a Ford.

I chose American because I could get a practically brand new car for substantially less than I could get an old Toyota or Honda with way more mileage and unknown rust proofing history.

But no, I wouldn't buy an old Ford with high mileage (for a Ford), that doesn't sound like the right option for you based on what you've said.

[Kwill]

That's very helpful, thank you. What counts as a young car? I thought 2016 seemed recent, but obviously I don't know much about cars.

[Metalcat]

That's very helpful, thank you. What counts as a young car? I thought 2016 seemed recent, but obviously I don't know much about cars.

It's hard for me to say because I live in a place where rust is a major issue.

A 2016 car is nearly 8 years old. That is not young in car world unless you're talking about a Japanese car in a non rusty region.

A poorly maintained Ford with that much mileage, at 8 years old could easily be on its last legs if it was driven hard.

[Kwill]

Despite looking at various websites and getting advice from people here, it all still seems mysterious and fraught with dangers. What I want from a car is that it takes me around when needed and doesn't mind being ignored when it's not needed.

I went to the local used car dealer. The staff were nice enough. After seeing Metalcat's comments, I only asked about the two Corollas. The salesperson pulled up the Carfax report for the one that didn't have that online, and it showed an accident history. Not a really bad accident, but it seemed like a bad sign that the only report they didn't display until requested had a past accident. I took a look at the 2013 Corolla and realized it basically just looked like a clean car to me. I looked under the hood, but it didn't tell me anything. He said I could take it to a mechanic to check if I wanted to. But maybe I should be looking at newer cars if I don't want to do anything myself? There weren't any newer ones there, but there are lots of other dealerships around.

[jnw]

Used Toyota/Lexus.  $5000.

[Kwill]

Used Toyota/Lexus.  $5000.

? Are you selling one? I'm not seeing prices like that locally except on very old cars with very high mileage. Facebook Marketplace has some in that range, but the one person who responded stopped responding when I asked about the VIN number a second time. It seems like a reasonable person selling a reasonable car would not try to keep a potential buyer from looking up the car's history.

[Metalcat]

It is tricky, I've fucked it up multiple times.

But I was also buying the cheapest cars possible back when I was a student and not realizing that virtually all of the small used car lots in my area were selling garbage cars, most of which had accidents and that's why they were cheaper.

I had no idea, I was young and stupid, and a lot of these places had really good mechanics. Of course they did, they made money doing mechanical work on the shitty cars they were selling. Lol.

But that's the market I lived in, that doesn't necessarily generalize to your market, especially since I live in a rusty region, which changes the economics of used cars.

So yeah, I get why it's daunting. If you don't know anything about cars or anything about your local car market, it's intimidating.

I ran into trouble when I moved somewhere where the car market was significantly different from what I was used to. I had never lived anywhere where sketchy, unethical small car lots sold garbage cars to people. I grew up in a small town where a business couldn't survive doing that, so I actually gravitated to small lots that had garages, not realizing I was setting myself up to buy lemons.

Like, a car lot has to be really sketchy to sell a Corolla lemon.

[Metalcat]

Used Toyota/Lexus.  $5000.

Where do you live that you can get a Lexus for $5000?

US folks, is this common??

ETA: apparently I *can* buy a used Lexus here for $5000. It's 22 years old, has rust, needs new bearings, and has 300K km. Sounds like a deal! Lol.

[Zamboni]

You did good waiting, because used car prices definitely seem to be falling and I think that will continue. Also, renting a car away from the airport is a pain. You've paid your carless dues, and I certainly agree with you that you deserve to have a car accessible as you need it at this point!

Now I'm going to go an alternative route and make a suggestion that may sound absolutely crazy to you and everyone on this board, but I've done it twice and been very happy with the outcome both times.

The first step is figuring out what you want. You are already doing that. Go to lots and kick the tires, sit in a bunch of cars to see how comfortable you are, etc. During this time, I highly advise going on the website Autotrader.com, which carries pretty much all used inventory that is at dealerships as well as a bunch of vehicles from private sellers. This is waaaay more legit than Craigslist or Facebook marketplace. Browse online at Autotrader with parameters that make sense to you. You can limit the years or the mileage. Once you've picked a make and model, it will pull up a list with options. Change the "location" from 50 mile radius, which I believe is the default, to "nationwide." Sort by price - lowest. Ignore sponsored results.

Pick additional things you care about. I'm picky about colors. For example, I don't like white exteriors (although they are very popular) and I don't like black interiors (too hot, but again this seems to be the most common color). So I select all the other colors and refine my search. You may love a white car with a black interior, but it's up to you. Eventually, with some poking around on Autotrader: Ta da! Your perfect car!

Your perfect car is probably available in multiple places, but some places have much lower prices or certain types of cars than others. Figure out where that is for your perfect car. For example, when someone in my family wanted a full size pick up truck of a certain make/model/trim, he figured out that at that moment in time they were WAY, WAY cheaper in the NYC area. Like $8000 less for identical used trucks that we can get where I live. So he rank-ordered his top six in the NYC area, I bought plane tickets for the next morning, and we flew one way to NYC, rented a car, and then started on the list. We bought the second one we test drove, stayed the night at a Hilton while the dealership sorted the paperwork, and the next day I turned in the rental at a convenient branch location (not where I picked it up), and we drove home. The trip cost us less than $500 including gas, car rental, and the hotel. It was fun!

I did it again two different times to buy luxury cars in rural Georgia. Turns out trucks are very expensive in rural Georgia, but that one weird ultra-rich guy is having trouble finding a buyer for his used <insert ridiculously expensive car brand> here. In one of those transactions I was trading in a car (we negotiated the trade in value and purchase price prior to the trip, all dealerships should be able to do both remotely now.) Since I was buying more of a unicorn car rather than a shopping a ranked-list and all the negotiation was prior to my departure on the shopping trip, I used a cashier's check made out for the agreed amount. One of the transactions took two trips: one to kick the tires and be sure we wanted the car (and for the seller to agree we would were acceptable buyers, lol), and two to actually take the cashier's check and pick it up.

I realize at this point I probably sound crazy, but I do not regret any of these purchases. In all cases the end result was awesome, and I enjoyed the trips and the process. Driving a new-to-me car home is fun.

In any case when you go to a dealership, they are obviously going to try to sell you what they have. It may or may not be what you want.  Bait and switch on advertisements is unfortunately sometimes a thing as you are finding. So call and make appointments on a specific car of interest if you are doing the travel to buy route. Or you will pick a car you do want to buy and then they will try to upsell you an extended warranty, "insurance", security system, rust proofing, whatever. Just make a life philosophy right now that you absolutely don't want those upsales things on the day of your car purchase. When they put on the heavy sales pressure (and they will), stick with the mantra "sorry, I have a life philosophy against that type of thing." You don't have to explain why. Feel welcome to walk away if they are really a jerk about it. Because there is literally always another car.

It's okay to tell the local sales guy a the local place "please keep an eye out for XYZ car and call me" if they don't have what you want. But, don't let them push you into something that isn't what you want, isn't in great shape, or isn't a really good deal. Finally, I will let you know that an Avalon is super nice to drive, but they are longer and much more difficult to park than a corolla or prius, for example. Since you may be parallel parking, this is something to consider.

[curious_george]

Used Toyota/Lexus.  $5000.

Where do you live that you can get a Lexus for $5000?

US folks, is this common??

ETA: apparently I *can* buy a used Lexus here for $5000. It's 22 years old, has rust, needs new bearings, and has 300K km. Sounds like a deal! Lol.

US here and no - this is not common at all these days.

I actually drive a Toyota Yaris so will add this to the list of suggestions. It is smaller and cheaper than a Corolla but still just as reliable. Easy to work on if you do your own work.

And yes - another vote for Autotrader. You can probably find a 16 year old high mileage Yaris for 5k if you're lucky..

ETA: I should say you *might* find one. Maybe. It really is hard to find anything for under 5k these days honestly.

[Kwill]

Thank you, Zamboni, TreeLeaf, and Metalcat.

I now have an appointment at a nearby Toyota dealer to go and see cars this afternoon.

What about a 2020 Corolla for $17,295 with 76,824 miles? Is that expensive or not so expensive? The new 2024 ones there are starting at $23,709 before taxes, which is lower than the newish used ones on the CarMax and AutoTrader sites. But I guess taxes, fees, and insurance would all be higher on a new car as well.

[Zamboni]

^I'm not sure but it seems high to me.

The buyer pool is slowing dramatically due to the higher interest rates. Keep that in mind. Also, if when they try to tack on destination fees, dealership fees, XYZ fees, etc. please ask them to remove everything that isn't 100% mandatory. You need to pay taxes/tags/title, obviously, but beyond that they are just tacking on profit.

Good luck with your shopping trip!

[daverobev]

IF you are planning on keeping the car for life, $24k for new seems to me a better deal than approximately 75% of that for one with 1/4 to 1/3 of its life gone (though on a 3 year old car... 'high' mileage like that is not always a bad thing, highway driving wears a car less than inner city). $8-10k for one with at least half its life gone... and probably a lot less in terms of safety features... ehhhh.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/all-cars/cars-under-10000/toyota/corolla/new-york-ny?isNewSearch=true&maxMileage=150000&searchRadius=0&sortBy=yearDESC&vhrTypes=NO_ACCIDENTS%2CONE_OWNER&zip=10001

(Change to your zip) - seems like a decent gauge of what's out there.

My wife had one of these for a while, no complaints (ignore the one with the massive accident, I did tick no accidents).

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/all-cars/cars-under-10000/hyundai/elantra/new-york-ny?isNewSearch=true&maxMileage=150000&searchRadius=0&sortBy=yearDESC&vhrTypes=NO_ACCIDENTS%2CONE_OWNER&zip=10001

[sonofsven]

Used Toyota/Lexus.  $5000.

Where do you live that you can get a Lexus for $5000?

US folks, is this common??

ETA: apparently I *can* buy a used Lexus here for $5000. It's 22 years old, has rust, needs new bearings, and has 300K km. Sounds like a deal! Lol.

In the NW, Portland and Seattle mainly. They're going to be late 90's to early 2000's, which are, IMHO, some of the best years for Lexus/Toyota. Mileage in the upper hundreds to mid 200's.
Cars don't really rust out here, even with all the rain, because we don't salt the roads.
It's a known thing for collectors to target NW cars because of this.

[Sandi_k]

Do you have a Carmax nearby? You can kick tires and check out multiple makes and models on one lot. Also - fixed pricing, so no need or fear of haggling...

[Kwill]

Thank you all! This is all really helpful.

We do have a Carmax about 20 miles away, but looking specifically at their more recent Corollas, they are more expensive than the other dealerships closer to me, with at least one of the used ones being listed for more than new ones elsewhere. So I thought I'd try the Toyota dealers near me first.

Today I test drove a pretty red 2021 Corolla LE with about 60,000 miles, listed at $18,995. It was really nice, and once I got used to it, it felt like I had my old favorite car again but with the spaceship features of the new ones. I bought my old Corolla new in August 1999 and picked the cheapest version available then with manual windows and manual door locks and a tape deck. But this one had a touch screen computer with a rear view parking camera and all the other things that probably feel normal if you've been driving recently. My last car was a 2004 Buick Century that I bought from my grandmother in 2010. That was a bit big for city driving but really nice to drive on the highway, and it had power windows and a key remote for locking the doors. Mom's car that I'm using at the moment is a 2014, so I'm slowly easing towards this decade.

The salesperson almost talked me into writing a check, but I thought at least I should think about it and talk to you all and maybe bring my sister or a friend next time. That dealership has three that are all almost the same with similar miles and the same exterior color but different interior colors. The salesperson said he could give me $500 off if I purchased it today, and I might remind him of that if I follow up on it.

[curious_george]

Thank you, Zamboni, TreeLeaf, and Metalcat.

I now have an appointment at a nearby Toyota dealer to go and see cars this afternoon.

What about a 2020 Corolla for $17,295 with 76,824 miles? Is that expensive or not so expensive? The new 2024 ones there are starting at $23,709 before taxes, which is lower than the newish used ones on the CarMax and AutoTrader sites. But I guess taxes, fees, and insurance would all be higher on a new car as well.

It seems similar in price to what I see in my area.

One other thing to consider is repair costs at a shop vs diy repair costs. Repair costs at professional shops have gone up in price significantly in the past three years, so if you aren't mechanically inclined I would be more likely to recommend a newer car vs an older one, all else considered.

Of course the flip side of this is the opportunity costs of having that money invested in a car vs the stock market, since interest rates on car loans are fairly high these days.

Another thing to consider is how many miles you plan on driving per year. The more miles you plan to drive per year the more likely I would recommend a newer car vs an older car, all else being equal.

Th Chevy bolt is another option to consider. All electric, I am seeing 2017 bolt's around 13-14k in my area on the low end. It is a Chevy though, so I doubt it will hold up as well as a Toyota long term, but as Metalcat pointed out the lower up front price may make it worth it. There is a thread here somewhere about the Chevy bolt specifically.

At the end of the day there is no free lunch anymore when it comes to vehicle ownership anymore. The old days of buying a car for 500 dollars and driving it into the ground for years then doing it again are over.

Either you pay for depreciation and lost opportunity costs when buying a new car, or you pay for repairs on a used car, or you spend your own time fixing old cars on the weekend, or you ride a bike.

What to specifically buy to optimize finances totally depends on your situation, skills, willingness to diy repairs, mileage driven per year, and if your location uses salt on the roads or not. And of course, personal preference.

19k at 60k miles....assuming 200k service life that is 30% of its life. If you can buy a new one for 24k 30% is 7,200 dollars. 25k - 7k is around 18k. It's sort of a wash but I would probably buy the new one if driving north of 15k miles a year, and used if less than 15k miles a year.

If you only drive 5-6k a year I would go older honestly....but that's just me.

ETA: The 2021 does not seem like a bad option but I would ask for 1,000-1,500 dollars off in the current environment. Wholesale used car prices have been falling lately, interest rates are high, it's November. The dealership should be willing to negotiate. The fact they offered 500 dollars off without prompting from you really says something about their negotiating power....

[Kwill]

There was a little prompting from me for the $500. He was asking if they could do anything to convince me to buy the car today, and I asked what he had in mind and then asked if the price on the website was negotiable at all.

The idea of a new car is appealing. The 2021 ones were all out of warranty and not "certified" ones, so there would just be a 30 day window to deal with any problems. If there were a Mustachian consensus that Kwill needed a new car, then I would let myself be convinced.

I asked about taxes and fees. He said that the 2021 ones would be about $20,900 after fees and taxes, and the 2024 ones that were around $24,000 would be around $27,000 after fees and taxes. I assume the other two Toyota dealers in the area would be roughly similar.

When I had cars before, I think I was driving around 12,000 miles a year, mostly on trips. I usually got a low mileage rebate from my insurer each year. At the time, I was living about 450 miles from my parents, and now I'm about 90 miles from them. I might make more roundtrips to see them living here, but each trip will have fewer miles. I'd like to take trips around to see friends, but between working all week and singing in a local choir on Sunday mornings, I probably won't have as much time for road trips as when I was a grad student. I'll be commuting by public transportation even after I have a car, though I might start working remotely some days, which would give me more time to get out by car in the evening.

[Kwill]

One of the 2021 red Corollas at the dealership today has slightly fewer miles (58,514 instead of 61,161), and it looks pristine on the outside instead of having some scrapes on the bumpers. It also has no accident history where the other two had minor accidents. It wasn't the one I test drove, but I'd probably try that one if I go for one of them. They're all listed for the same price. Would you really try to get the price down by $1,000 or more? It seems a lot to ask but it would be nice to stay under $20,000 including tax and fees.

All of them are former rentals, which Carfax says makes the price lower. Are former rentals bad? I assume they would have been maintained very regularly, but all sorts of people could have been driving them.

I've never given up a car for maintenance issues or because it reached the end of its life. Every single time, it's been because I moved overseas. Thinking about that pattern and how life can change and the fact that I don't drive that much, maybe it's better to get the used car and keep it as long as it makes sense for me. Or maybe it's better to get a new car and sell it on eventually? I had the last Corolla for 9 years and sold it for 25% of what I paid new.

[Sandi_k]

I would not buy a former rental.

Rental cars are typically abused, driven hard, and not necessarily maintained well. They dump them before things like belts and sparkplugs are due; and apparently cheap oil & filters if needed.

This is why most car people prefer to buy from individuals, especially individuals with service records.

[curious_george]

One of the 2021 red Corollas at the dealership today has slightly fewer miles (58,514 instead of 61,161), and it looks pristine on the outside instead of having some scrapes on the bumpers. It also has no accident history where the other two had minor accidents. It wasn't the one I test drove, but I'd probably try that one if I go for one of them. They're all listed for the same price. Would you really try to get the price down by $1,000 or more? It seems a lot to ask but it would be nice to stay under $20,000 including tax and fees.

All of them are former rentals, which Carfax says makes the price lower. Are former rentals bad? I assume they would have been maintained very regularly, but all sorts of people could have been driving them.

I've never given up a car for maintenance issues or because it reached the end of its life. Every single time, it's been because I moved overseas. Thinking about that pattern and how life can change and the fact that I don't drive that much, maybe it's better to get the used car and keep it as long as it makes sense for me. Or maybe it's better to get a new car and sell it on eventually? I had the last Corolla for 9 years and sold it for 25% of what I paid new.

I would probably buy the used car and try and negotiate $1,000 dollars off the car or more, yes. Word it like - you will buy it right now if they can knock off x amount. If they can't knock off x amount then you will go home and think about it and check out other dealerships.

If they don't agree then I would go home and think about it and check out other dealerships, so you're not actually lying. If you still want the car you can always go back and buy it later for the price you negotiated down to previously most likely.

Some dealerships don't negotiate at all, other dealerships negotiate a lot. It just depends on the dealership and how much they want to move the car.

With that said - I feel like this is a decision you should make for yourself. The MMM forums are full of really smart people, but at the end of the day this is your decision to make. You are the one who is paying for and driving the car, so you should choose what makes you happy, which may or may not be what the forum members want. You don't owe any of us anything and have no obligation to do as we say. You should do what makes YOU happy, not us.

Just my .02 cents.

[Kwill]

Lots to think about. Thanks again, everyone. I'll take a break now but update eventually.

[Metalcat]

Lots to think about. Thanks again, everyone. I'll take a break now but update eventually.

Yep.

That's also why I've emphasized repeatedly that my opinions are heavily influenced by my market and climate.

I've lived some places where little used car lots are the best value and other places where I learned the hard way that they mostly sell garbage cars.

It's hard to base your decision off of the opinions of people who don't have knowledge of your area.

[ChpBstrd]

One of the 2021 red Corollas at the dealership today has slightly fewer miles (58,514 instead of 61,161), and it looks pristine on the outside instead of having some scrapes on the bumpers. It also has no accident history where the other two had minor accidents. It wasn't the one I test drove, but I'd probably try that one if I go for one of them. They're all listed for the same price. Would you really try to get the price down by $1,000 or more? It seems a lot to ask but it would be nice to stay under $20,000 including tax and fees.

All of them are former rentals, which Carfax says makes the price lower. Are former rentals bad? I assume they would have been maintained very regularly, but all sorts of people could have been driving them.

I've never given up a car for maintenance issues or because it reached the end of its life. Every single time, it's been because I moved overseas. Thinking about that pattern and how life can change and the fact that I don't drive that much, maybe it's better to get the used car and keep it as long as it makes sense for me. Or maybe it's better to get a new car and sell it on eventually? I had the last Corolla for 9 years and sold it for 25% of what I paid new.

That's funny. I bought a 3 year old Corolla with 43k miles from a dealer for $13,500 back in 2014. I figured out it was a former rental when I noticed it had a little no-smoking sticker near the ashtray. The car has had zero problems in 9.5 years of use, aside from when I've abused it (e.g. cooking the brakes, letting dear spouse ram it into the garage door, etc.).

Now my car is 12.5 years old. It still starts easy, runs smooth, and drives well. Inside the oil cap looks squeaky clean, the exhaust pipe is clean, it gets its original rated gas mileage, and the old oil is clean at oil change time. The only issue, which was present 9.5 years ago, is a tiny oil leak on the valve cover gasket which I've never cared enough to fix. That said, the car only has 115k miles, so I might be driving it 10 years from now.

So I bought a former rental car and I think it's worked out OK for me. Back then I paid a 23% discount below the car's MSRP because it was 3y old with 43k miles. For a 2021 model, the price at that same discount percentage would be $15,766.

[sonofsven]

When it comes to actually buying and negotiating for the car, I've had best results by identifying what I want first by doing research and test driving, not trying to decide at the dealership.
There used to be a free service called Tru car, but I think it's been co-opted now, maybe consumer reports has a similar fee service, but I was able to see what range others were paying for the same vehicle.
Once I found that I emailed all dealers within 3 hours listing exactly what I wanted.
The ones that responded with real sales folk I listed again exactly what I wanted and also the price I was willing to pay, which was in the bottom range of pricing that I learned from Tru car.
The sales person that was most responsive and met my requirements was the one I went with . I made only that one trip to the dealership, to sign the papers and pick up the truck. Everything was done by email. I was pre-approved for financing independent of the dealer, but I ended up financing a small part of the purchase with the dealer when they matched the interest rate

This was pre-pandemic. In '22 I bought a new truck and MSRP was the best I could do. Many, but not all, were charging above MSRP. The key is to find the one with the best price. It might take some time.

Somt people hate dealing with the salespeople this way and are ok paying a little more for a local or easy experience. That's ok, too.

[Kwill]

I checked the cars again online last night, and the advertised price is $1000 lower than when I test drove less than two weeks ago. That makes them about the same as anywhere else I can see in the area and less than many. The salesperson followed my request and waited until today to email again, which I appreciate after another local dealership called and emailed repeatedly after I asked to be removed from their list. So I'm planning to go back and buy it this Saturday, hopefully with my sister for moral support and a second opinion on the test drive.

[Zamboni]

Sounds like you have a solid plan. Good luck with your purchase!

[Kwill]

After these months of hesitation and wondering what to do about a car, I bought a 2021 Corolla today. I got talked into buying a three year warranty as well, but I avoided the rest of the extras. I don't know if it was the exact perfect car decision, but I spent enough time thinking about it. The car is very pretty for the moment, and it has a clean Carfax history. It also includes a backup camera for parking and connects to my phone so that Google Maps can show on the built-in screen. That still seems amazing to me. With my last car, I was excited to have a CD player, but this one has Bluetooth instead.

Thank you all for your advice and moral support and stories.

[SmashYourSmartPhone]

With my last car, I was excited to have a CD player, but this one has Bluetooth instead.

Sorry about the downgrade!

[curious_george]

After these months of hesitation and wondering what to do about a car, I bought a 2021 Corolla today. I got talked into buying a three year warranty as well, but I avoided the rest of the extras. I don't know if it was the exact perfect car decision, but I spent enough time thinking about it. The car is very pretty for the moment, and it has a clean Carfax history. It also includes a backup camera for parking and connects to my phone so that Google Maps can show on the built-in screen. That still seems amazing to me. With my last car, I was excited to have a CD player, but this one has Bluetooth instead.

Thank you all for your advice and moral support and stories.

Congrats! Enjoy the newer car. :)

[ChpBstrd]

After these months of hesitation and wondering what to do about a car, I bought a 2021 Corolla today. I got talked into buying a three year warranty as well, but I avoided the rest of the extras. I don't know if it was the exact perfect car decision, but I spent enough time thinking about it. The car is very pretty for the moment, and it has a clean Carfax history. It also includes a backup camera for parking and connects to my phone so that Google Maps can show on the built-in screen. That still seems amazing to me. With my last car, I was excited to have a CD player, but this one has Bluetooth instead.

Thank you all for your advice and moral support and stories.

Welcome to the Corolla club. It's the most economical car on the market, and very nice / reliable too. I wonder though, after all these years does the audio system in Toyotas still suck? I replaced mine with all aftermarket stuff in year 1.

[Kwill]

To be honest, I don't really listen to music all that much.  A fancy sound system would be wasted on me, but now I am curious to try it out. Maybe I could try some audio books.

Thank you all. I'm happy to have sorted this out for now. There's been a lot of life admin involved with coming back to the US, and this was one of the big things.

[Just Joe]

Next time you go car shopping you can use the "Kelly Blue Book" or the "NADA" price guide to help you decide what good pricing is. Both are available online for free.

We purchased a car in '17 that was a '14 from CarMax. Its condition was A+ and 43K miles. The price was right between KBB and NADA so I felt the price was okay. The purchase process was very good. We brought our own financing from our bank. I've since been involved in several more CarMax purchases for my employer and every time the experience was good and the vehicles were too.

I've heard other people claim that CarMax was expensive to do business with. Maybe that is true for other vehicles or other locations. Definitely look the vehicle over carefully. The one we bought was pristine, its twin parked right next to it was not. Similar miles, age and price.

I wish you many happy miles with your new car!

[Kwill]

I thought everything was all sorted out for a while, but then the car wouldn't start last Sunday, just 8 days after I bought it. I emailed the salesperson while waiting for roadside assistance to come and jumpstart the car. The man who jumpstarted the car said it looked fine and the battery was new; the problem was just that I hadn't driven in a week. I drove out to a Walmart in a suburb in order to run the engine for a while there and back, and I drove Tuesday evening to make sure it was sitting less than a week. It seemed OK but I went ahead and made an appointment at the dealership's service center for them to look at the battery today. This afternoon I waited at the dealership for a couple hours, but I left with a new battery. They said the battery was low and that they would pay to put in a new one. I'm thankful that they took responsibility and got it fixed. I hope that's the last problem for a while.

[daverobev]

Yeah it shouldn't go flat in a week.

If you're not driving much though, you do need to make sure it's kept charged. If you only usually do really short journeys, and rarely long ones, you might want to get a trickle charger.

[Kwill]

What is a trickle  charger? I Googled and found some for sale and read some reviews, but I am still not sure what it is. If it is something that charges the car really slowly, could you use it in a parking lot outdoors?

[daverobev]

Yes it just keeps the battery topped up.

Standard car batteries are lead acid - good for giving a big chunk of power to turn the starter, but they really want to be full.

If you're not going to use the car you plug in a trickle charger to combat the 'parasitic drain' that happens both naturally over time and with all the electronics that run in modern cars even when they're off (much worse with the more complex cars).

If you start the car, it takes some power. Driving the car, the alternator charges it back to full... except if you only drive a few minutes, turn it off, and let the car cool. It's harder for the battery in the cold, as well.

A week, if you then go on a 30 minute drive, it should be fine. Even a couple of weeks shouldn't be a problem, but if you're only going for a 'real drive' every few weeks - or taking really short trips - a trickle charger might be in order.

Other options: a solar panel in the dash that plugs into the 12V socket, a 'marine' battery rather than lead acid, or just accept you might be replacing the battery every 2 years rather than 4-5. Tricky if you don't have a plug socket near the car. Oh you could just get a jump start power pack that lives at home, gets charged at home, and that you use to give the battery a boost if it's ever needed. Thing is, draining a battery that low is bad for the battery.

Some combination will work, but if they replaced the battery for you it probably was just a bad battery (that they left discharging on the lot for weeks at a time perhaps), and you'll be fine :)

[Kwill]

Interesting. Does a trickle charger need to be plugged in? I live in an apartment building and park in an outdoor communal lot, so there's no way to plug anything in. In a typical week, I expect to make a couple trips that are about 4 miles each way, and then I expect to make a trip of 30 miles each way about every other week and a trip of 90 miles each way about once a month or once every two months. If I could just stop getting lost every time I came back from DC, I might think about driving more. I have messed up in the same spot three times in a row, despite the Google Maps directions. I think it is telling me the wrong lane at a critical juncture, but I am not familiar enough with the spot to correct for it in time.

[GuitarStv]

When covid first hit, we pretty much stopped driving.  I took my car out two or three times in about eight months and started having trouble with the battery going flat.  You absolutely shouldn't be going flat in a week, unless the battery is already on it's last legs.

[dang1]

Does a trickle charger need to be plugged in?..

Car Battery Chargers and Maintainers
https://www.caranddriver.com/car-accessories/g44712080/best-car-battery-chargers-maintainers-tested/

https://www.renogy.com/blog/choosing-a-solar-battery-trickle-charger-maintainer/

[Kwill]

Does a trickle charger need to be plugged in?..

Car Battery Chargers and Maintainers
https://www.caranddriver.com/car-accessories/g44712080/best-car-battery-chargers-maintainers-tested/

https://www.renogy.com/blog/choosing-a-solar-battery-trickle-charger-maintainer/

From the first link: "You'll need an external power source to charge your battery. When making your choice for purchase, note your available power sources to confirm the cord can reach from your intended 120-volt wall outlet to the battery terminals."

From the second link: "Traditional trickle charges must always remain plugged into a power source, which makes them a bit tedious to use.

Conversely, a solar battery trickle charger only needs to be connected to the battery. This flexibility makes them much more versatile than standard trickle chargers."

That is interesting. I could see a solar battery trickle charger that could sit on the dashboard and connect to the cigarette lighter plug being useful because it wouldn't attract attention and wouldn't require taking the battery inside to charge it in my living room. I don't think I'll get one right now, but it's something to think about in the future.

Never mind. It turns out that set-up doesn't work if the cigarette lighter plug turns off when the car is not on (see note in bold here). I'm not sure, but the general sense I get from Google is that my car is likely to turn off the plug when the car is off. I don't want to go out in the pouring rain to check this right now.

[daverobev]

Some 12V sockets get disconnected completely, but some allow charge to go *in* when the car is off, I think.

[Zamboni]

Congratulations on your car! And sounds like the extended warranty already is working in your favor.

(I know I said not to buy one, but I did buy one with my Jag . . . . because, well, unlike Toyotas Jaguars are not know for their reliability. Face punch away, people, it's super fun to drive and I bought it with cash after it had reached the horizontal part of the depreciation curve.)

[Just Joe]

Other options: a solar panel in the dash that plugs into the 12V socket, a 'marine' battery rather than lead acid, or just accept you might be replacing the battery every 2 years rather than 4-5. Tricky if you don't have a plug socket near the car. Oh you could just get a jump start power pack that lives at home, gets charged at home, and that you use to give the battery a boost if it's ever needed. Thing is, draining a battery that low is bad for the battery.

If you choose to backfeed into the dash 12V socket, make sure the dash socket stays electrified when the key is off. My Hondas do not. One is a '99 and the other is a 2014. Those same solar panels do come with alligator clips so you could connect directly to the battery though. Lastly if you live some place very hot and sunny - the one I gifted my friend got too hot and sort of melted a little laying on the dash. Not sure what the right answer is - perhaps dangle it from the sunvisors or something on little scraps of string?

As far as battery trickle chargers - I have a "Battery Tender" brand and a Harbor Freight "Viking" part no: 63350 charger/tender. Both have been fine.

[Just Joe]

Interesting. Does a trickle charger need to be plugged in? I live in an apartment building and park in an outdoor communal lot, so there's no way to plug anything in. In a typical week, I expect to make a couple trips that are about 4 miles each way, and then I expect to make a trip of 30 miles each way about every other week and a trip of 90 miles each way about once a month or once every two months. If I could just stop getting lost every time I came back from DC, I might think about driving more. I have messed up in the same spot three times in a row, despite the Google Maps directions. I think it is telling me the wrong lane at a critical juncture, but I am not familiar enough with the spot to correct for it in time.

This is what I've gifted people: https://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-SP-200-Solar-Battery-Maintainer/dp/B004ZC3TFC

But, make sure the 12V dash outlet is still electrically "hot". Plug in your phone charger. Does the phone charge even when the engine is off and the key removed?

[Kwill]

Thank you, daverobev, Zamboni, and Just Joe. I'm learning a lot from this thread!