Mustachian Touring Bike?

[Alternatepriorities]

I know a lot of us ride a lot so I'll just throw this out for ideas and comments. I'm looking for a good quality touring bike with paniers for a reasonable price but as I've been mostly riding the same road bike for the last 15 years I'm not sure where to start.

I did a couple of short tours (the longest as 800 miles) on the current bike but it was really designed for going fast rather than comfort. As I've aged I've noticed that is more of a problem after a couple of hours than it used to be. The last couple of summers one foot or sometimes both will go numb and I also find my neck gets sore when looking up from the drop bars.

Assuming the vaccines do their job and world returns to something like normal by June I am thinking of doing an 800+ mile self supported ride. I'd like to go pretty minimalist but the area requires some flexibility and wild camping so i will need to be able to carry some weight. I used a bob trailer behind my road bike on the last 800 mile ride, but I don't want to do that again.

Story of the last trip and idea of local conditions here:
http://alternatepriorities.blogspot.com/2014/05/time-for-bike-trip.html

This summers ride would be roughly Anchorage to either Skagway or Haines followed by a ferry ride to Juneau and then flying home.

Anyone want to join me?

[duck-duck]

As far as a bike recommendation, I purchased a REI brand Navara Randonee new in 2014. It was on sale for $800 during a sale. It’s been a great bike and compares well to Surly LHT. Because Novara doesn’t have the same name recognition, I see them on Craigslist routinely for $300-400. If looking to buy something new, REI’s new line of bikes, Co-Op, provides good value at its price.

And I would love to tour in Alaska this summer, but life would allow for a few years.

[GuitarStv]

Figure out exactly what kind of bike touring you're going to be doing first.  If you're doing shorter trips you can get away with a very different setup than if you're doing a world tour.

Using a handlebar bag, frame pack, and giant saddlebag will allow you to travel much faster (less aerodynamic resistance) and use just about any drop bar bike.  The disadvantage is that you can't carry quite as much stuff (which is also kinda good - less stuff is less weight which will make your ride a little easier to go distances).  Something like this:


Lets you carry a change of clothes, bivvy sack, toothbrush, basic repair tools, spare tubes/pump, etc.  That's really about all you need.

Nothing wrong with panniers . . . you can carry an awful lot more stuff.  But it limits the frames that you can use, requires buying/fitting bike racks, it's much less aerodynamic (noticibly more effort to go distances/quickly), and encourages carrying more than you really need.  If you can get away with less, it's worth considering doing so.

I say this as a guy who owns a touring bike, front and rear rack/panniers.  :P  I'd rather do a tour on a sturdy road bike than a touring bike these days.

[Alternatepriorities]

As far as a bike recommendation, I purchased a REI brand Navara Randonee new in 2014. It was on sale for $800 during a sale. It’s been a great bike and compares well to Surly LHT. Because Novara doesn’t have the same name recognition, I see them on Craigslist routinely for $300-400. If looking to buy something new, REI’s new line of bikes, Co-Op, provides good value at its price.

And I would love to tour in Alaska this summer, but life would allow for a few years.

Thanks. The road bike I have is a Novara and I've found it to be a great bike especially for the price. The only touring bike I've looked at closely is a co-op ADV. I think it was the 1.1, but it's been a couple of years and I haven't really spend any time in REI this year... It looked like a really nice touring bike, but I was a little worried that with the drop bars it wouldn't be that different on the neck than my rode bike.

[GuitarStv]

As far as a bike recommendation, I purchased a REI brand Navara Randonee new in 2014. It was on sale for $800 during a sale. It’s been a great bike and compares well to Surly LHT. Because Novara doesn’t have the same name recognition, I see them on Craigslist routinely for $300-400. If looking to buy something new, REI’s new line of bikes, Co-Op, provides good value at its price.

And I would love to tour in Alaska this summer, but life would allow for a few years.

Thanks. The road bike I have is a Novara and I've found it to be a great bike especially for the price. The only touring bike I've looked at closely is a co-op ADV. I think it was the 1.1, but it's been a couple of years and I haven't really spend any time in REI this year... It looked like a really nice touring bike, but I was a little worried that with the drop bars it wouldn't be that different on the neck than my rode bike.

Can you fix your position on your road bike?  Many people ride road bikes with their bars set too low.  This could be causing the neck problems you're experiencing.  A properly set up road bike should be comfortable to do 100 km rides on day after day.  If your steer tube isn't cut, try putting more spacers under the bars.  If your steer tube is cut you might need a riser stem to correct position.

[Alternatepriorities]

Figure out exactly what kind of bike touring you're going to be doing first.  If you're doing shorter trips you can get away with a very different setup than if you're doing a world tour.

Using a handlebar bag, frame pack, and giant saddlebag will allow you to travel much faster (less aerodynamic resistance) and use just about any drop bar bike.  The disadvantage is that you can't carry quite as much stuff (which is also kinda good - less stuff is less weight which will make your ride a little easier to go distances).  Something like this:


Lets you carry a change of clothes, bivvy sack, toothbrush, basic repair tools, spare tubes/pump, etc.  That's really about all you need.

Nothing wrong with panniers . . . you can carry an awful lot more stuff.  But it limits the frames that you can use, requires buying/fitting bike racks, it's much less aerodynamic (noticibly more effort to go distances/quickly), and encourages carrying more than you really need.  If you can get away with less, it's worth considering doing so.

I say this as a guy who owns a touring bike, front and rear rack/panniers.  :P  I'd rather do a tour on a sturdy road bike than a touring bike these days.

That is a sweet looking setup. I do like how streamlined it is. Do you have any idea how many liters that will hold? That would give me a way to compare it to minimalist backpacking...

Towns/lodging in Alaska and the Yukon are often have 160+ km gaps between them. If I were to couple very long days with very short days and expensive beds I might be able to do the trip without a tent/bivy & stove, but my current plan is based on taking those things and staying at parks on just wild camping...

Why do prefer to tour on the road bike? I do love the speed and maneuverability on mine. Do you have any ideas on why my neck has started to bother me with the drop bars? Apparently you answered that while I was typing.

[GuitarStv]

You go faster on a road bike with less effort, and they're lighter - and most of my touring is done on paved roads.  I prefer to do 80 - 100 km a day.  Also, I've spend years dialing in my road bike position so that it's extremely comfortable.  Just make sure you can fit 32 mm tires in your bike frame and you're good.  (If you're doing off-road or really rough fire roads then you probably want bigger tires and might prefer a different frame.)

Make sure that you're not using goofy ultralight race wheels on the bike (a properly built 32 spoke double butted wheel with a decently tough rim will work perfectly) and you should be fine.

You can use zip ties to attach an extra bottle cage below the downtube if you need an extra bottle, or bring a camelback bladder rather than bottles (works well in cooler conditions, not having your back open to the air can kinda cook you if it's really hot though) . . . but carrying all that extra weight sucks.  I'd be more inclined to buy a lifestraw (or other similar filtration device) and look for streams/water along the way.

[Alternatepriorities]

As far as a bike recommendation, I purchased a REI brand Navara Randonee new in 2014. It was on sale for $800 during a sale. It’s been a great bike and compares well to Surly LHT. Because Novara doesn’t have the same name recognition, I see them on Craigslist routinely for $300-400. If looking to buy something new, REI’s new line of bikes, Co-Op, provides good value at its price.

And I would love to tour in Alaska this summer, but life would allow for a few years.

Thanks. The road bike I have is a Novara and I've found it to be a great bike especially for the price. The only touring bike I've looked at closely is a co-op ADV. I think it was the 1.1, but it's been a couple of years and I haven't really spend any time in REI this year... It looked like a really nice touring bike, but I was a little worried that with the drop bars it wouldn't be that different on the neck than my rode bike.

Can you fix your position on your road bike?  Many people ride road bikes with their bars set too low.  This could be causing the neck problems you're experiencing.  A properly set up road bike should be comfortable to do 100 km rides on day after day.  If your steer tube isn't cut, try putting more spacers under the bars.  If your steer tube is cut you might need a riser stem to correct position.

I think shifting the seat forward slightly on my last long ride caused some knee problems so I put it back were it was before I had the post mount panier on it. That meant my leg rubbed slightly on the mounting bracket for the panier. I haven't tired lifting the handle bars up, only changing the tilt. I'll have to take a look at that sometime over the winter and see if I can just lift them with spacer or an extension.

Note: bob trailer shown from last trip has been returned to it's owner... It was way too tempting to over pack with that thing on there and really limits the maneuverability. However it does make it possible to stand the bike up on it's own and the increased rolling resistance really encouraged riding on paint of the white line... Traffic levels here allow that sort of thing.

[GuitarStv]

As far as a bike recommendation, I purchased a REI brand Navara Randonee new in 2014. It was on sale for $800 during a sale. It’s been a great bike and compares well to Surly LHT. Because Novara doesn’t have the same name recognition, I see them on Craigslist routinely for $300-400. If looking to buy something new, REI’s new line of bikes, Co-Op, provides good value at its price.

And I would love to tour in Alaska this summer, but life would allow for a few years.

Thanks. The road bike I have is a Novara and I've found it to be a great bike especially for the price. The only touring bike I've looked at closely is a co-op ADV. I think it was the 1.1, but it's been a couple of years and I haven't really spend any time in REI this year... It looked like a really nice touring bike, but I was a little worried that with the drop bars it wouldn't be that different on the neck than my rode bike.

Can you fix your position on your road bike?  Many people ride road bikes with their bars set too low.  This could be causing the neck problems you're experiencing.  A properly set up road bike should be comfortable to do 100 km rides on day after day.  If your steer tube isn't cut, try putting more spacers under the bars.  If your steer tube is cut you might need a riser stem to correct position.

I think shifting the seat forward slightly on my last long ride caused some knee problems so I put it back were it was before I had the post mount panier on it. That meant my leg rubbed slightly on the mounting bracket for the panier. I haven't tired lifting the handle bars up, only changing the tilt. I'll have to take a look at that sometime over the winter and see if I can just lift them with spacer or an extension.

Note: bob trailer shown from last trip has been returned to it's owner... It was way too tempting to over pack with that thing on there and really limits the maneuverability. However it does make it possible to stand the bike up on it's own and the increased rolling resistance really encouraged riding on paint of the white line... Traffic levels here allow that sort of thing.

Saddle position should be set based on your legs, not your upper body.  Stem should be altered to change reach.  I found this tool was really helpful to calculate exactly what the difference in reach would be when changing stem length and angle:

http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php

With that you can calculate exactly how much more/less height and reach you'll get with a given stem and then just order the right one.

[Alternatepriorities]

You go faster on a road bike with less effort, and they're lighter - and most of my touring is done on paved roads.  I prefer to do 80 - 100 km a day.  Also, I've spend years dialing in my road bike position so that it's extremely comfortable.  Just make sure you can fit 32 mm tires in your bike frame and you're good.  (If you're doing off-road or really rough fire roads then you probably want bigger tires and might prefer a different frame.)

Make sure that you're not using goofy ultralight race wheels on the bike (a properly built 32 spoke double butted wheel with a decently tough rim will work perfectly) and you should be fine.

You can use zip ties to attach an extra bottle cage below the downtube if you need an extra bottle, or bring a camelback bladder rather than bottles (works well in cooler conditions, not having your back open to the air can kinda cook you if it's really hot though) . . . but carrying all that extra weight sucks.  I'd be more inclined to buy a lifestraw (or other similar filtration device) and look for streams/water along the way.

I'll have to check on the 32mm tires. I'm pretty sure the rims I had on it last tour qualify as "goofy ultralight race wheels". I destroyed a brand new tire in 800 miles, and my only explanation is that it was overloaded. Also a significant fraction of the roads up here are chip seal instead of real asphalt which is much higher rolling resistance and I suspect chews up tires.

Definitely agree with taking a filter, I have one that is really small and only a couple of ounces.

[GuitarStv]

You go faster on a road bike with less effort, and they're lighter - and most of my touring is done on paved roads.  I prefer to do 80 - 100 km a day.  Also, I've spend years dialing in my road bike position so that it's extremely comfortable.  Just make sure you can fit 32 mm tires in your bike frame and you're good.  (If you're doing off-road or really rough fire roads then you probably want bigger tires and might prefer a different frame.)

Make sure that you're not using goofy ultralight race wheels on the bike (a properly built 32 spoke double butted wheel with a decently tough rim will work perfectly) and you should be fine.

You can use zip ties to attach an extra bottle cage below the downtube if you need an extra bottle, or bring a camelback bladder rather than bottles (works well in cooler conditions, not having your back open to the air can kinda cook you if it's really hot though) . . . but carrying all that extra weight sucks.  I'd be more inclined to buy a lifestraw (or other similar filtration device) and look for streams/water along the way.

I'll have to check on the 32mm tires. I'm pretty sure the rims I had on it last tour qualify as "goofy ultralight race wheels". I destroyed a brand new tire in 800 miles, and my only explanation is that it was overloaded. Also a significant fraction of the roads up here are chip seal instead of real asphalt which is much higher rolling resistance and I suspect chews up tires.

Definitely agree with taking a filter, I have one that is really small and only a couple of ounces.

Chipseal's not too bad to ride on.  Most regular road tires should handle it OK.

I use very heavy dedicated touring tires on my winter bike because they're bulletproof and I'm often riding through snow/mud so they need some grip.  I DO NOT WANT to have to change a tire at 15 below.  If you're riding in warmer weather, you will probably have have a much better time using lighter and slightly less flat protective tires.

If you want to go super cheap (maybe bringing a spare folding tire with you for peace of mind) you could probably get away with a pair of 32mm Continental Ultra Sports.  They roll well, are decently light (if you get the folding kind) and have surprisingly good grip on the road - but aren't the best as far as puncture protection goes.  In the same vein (but a little tougher with some better flat protection and more expensive) would be a tire like the Continenal GP5000 (faster) or the GP4Season (grippier).

Something like the Schwalbe Marathon Racer is a decent middle of the road tire - tough, but not cripplingly heavy and OK rolling.

This is a decent site for researching different tires:  https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/

[Poor Rod]

I'll throw this out there: Kona Sutra or Sutra LTD. I have an older LTD with WTB Riddler 45C tires. The Sutra is set up as your normal touring type bike, the LTD is more like a MTB bikepacking bike. Plenty of mounts for racks.

https://konaworld.com/platform_sutra.cfm

It's a fun, comfortable bike, but the sizing runs large - my 52 cm Sutra LTD is just slightly bigger than my 54 cm Trek Checkpoint. If you can test ride one for fit, do it.

The Sutras are steel, The Rove is similar in aluminum or carbon. I live in the desert so rust isn't a concern for me, YMMV.

[Alternatepriorities]

I'll throw this out there: Kona Sutra or Sutra LTD. I have an older LTD with WTB Riddler 45C tires. The Sutra is set up as your normal touring type bike, the LTD is more like a MTB bikepacking bike. Plenty of mounts for racks.

https://konaworld.com/platform_sutra.cfm

It's a fun, comfortable bike, but the sizing runs large - my 52 cm Sutra LTD is just slightly bigger than my 54 cm Trek Checkpoint. If you can test ride one for fit, do it.

The Sutras are steel, The Rove is similar in aluminum or carbon. I live in the desert so rust isn't a concern for me, YMMV.

Those do look like nice bikes. I wonder if I can find one used up here. One of the things I realized last time I went looking for used bikes (fat tire a couple years ago) is that I often don’t know what I am looking at without a lot of research and by the time I finish it the bike has sold.