Author Topic: Mustachian Relocation Guide  (Read 115158 times)

BMW Jalopy

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #250 on: July 15, 2018, 11:24:35 PM »
City, State, Country:
Henderson, NV

If a suburb, distance from city:
Borders Clark County, which most people think of as Las Vegas

Average housing cost (specify rent or buy):
In Henderson or Summerlin, the main areas you'd want to live, currently $300K for a very small house, rising to literally whatever you want to spend. That small house would rent for $1600. Note that the house/rent prices boom and bust at roughly a 2X1 ratio every 10 years or so. We are presumably at the top of the cycle right now.

Indoor Hobbies:
Drinking, gambling, lots of restaurants, non-moustachian $120/seat stage shows, superb high school drama productions, lots of churches and a few cults (You know how you can tell if you're in a cult? Good news! You're not in one. Yours is the true faith - it's those weird clowns worshiping across the street that are in a cult.) There's a scrabble club that plays lots of moldy oldies from the 1950s, an emerging board games scene, brew pubs, opportunities to serve at homeless shelters, dog rescue, typical stuff for a medium size city.

Outdoor Hobbies: Lots of hiking, skiing, bicycling, motor racing of all descriptions, iron man competitions, bikini contests, water skiing, jet skiing, and if you sad sacks hadn't face punched me into selling my sailboat - sailboating on Lake Mead all year long.

Weather: Superb October thru May. A convection oven June thru September. Total rainfall ranges from 2 inches to 6 inches per year. Rainstorms often don't get the area under your car wet.

Favorite things: Very non-judgmental. Whatever your style, there's a place for you. A real melting pot. A huge number of really good mom n pop ethnic restaurants. Once you get plugged into your professional network, you make so much money it's hard to leave the city.

Least favorite things: The minute you leave Henderson city limits, there's homeless dudes all over the place, panhandling. Summers are brutal, you truly need epic level air conditioning at home and in your car. Old cars frequently die when their cooling system can't cope. All the touristy stuff and anything on The Strip are an overpriced ripoff. The "landscape rocks" covering all residential yards is hugely depressing. For a metro area of 2M people, there's very little culture in the way of museums, orchestras, etc. There's the Smith Center, but who can afford it.

'Must Try': Sailing on Lake Mead

Stupid ordinances/laws: This only came in when the megaweed corporations got recreational cannabis legalized: If there's a recreational dispensary within 25 miles of your house, you can't grow your own medicinal cannabis plants, even with your doctor's referral document.

Words of wisdom/Advice: Don't move here. Once you're networked professionally, you'll stay here way longer than any sane person would want to.

Sustainability options (gardening, solar, etc): Solar, aw hell yah. Gardens look great through June, then incinerate by fourth of July. Even on drip, only a few hardy herbs make it to September.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 11:27:59 PM by BMW Jalopy »

sisto

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #251 on: July 16, 2018, 09:58:53 AM »
I would love to have Merida, MEX added. Also love to hear about any places in MEX. Seriously considering relocating there post FIRE.

magnet18

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #252 on: August 08, 2018, 09:27:56 AM »
I can chime in from Fort Wayne, IN.


  • Fort Wayne, IN, USA
  • If a suburb, distance from city: N/A
    There are various suburbs, but they are all considered "in" the city. 
    Downtown is very small, not sure what's there, I almost never go there.  Southwest and northwest side of town is where I frequent.
    Southwest side if town is best for bike-ability, to things like grocery stores and parks.
    There are also various commuter towns, I am fond of churubusco, when I lived in town there it was a 15 minute drive to my engineering job in Fort Wayne, at 60mph the whole way.
  • Average housing cost (specify rent or buy):CHEAP!!!
    Fort Wayne has some of the lowest cost of living in the country, a mustachian should be able to build their dream house here for $200K
  • Indoor Hobbies: Whatever you want?
    Land is cheap, housing is cheap, no reason not to have as much indoor space as you want, including barns if you're into working on your own cars or big projects (especially in the winter)

    Easy to grow crops for your own brewing.
  • Outdoor Hobbies:require a mustachian attitude
    Plenty of gardening or homesteading options
    Winters here suck.  Not that they're too cold or snowy to do anything, they suck in that it's not cold enough for long enough.  Snow-thaw-repeat all winter long.

    There are plenty of state parks in weekend-trip distance, i live close enough to one for afternoon hikes.
    Kayaking and watersports aplenty in the summer.
    The mountain biking scene is probably similar to that in any Midwest City... Tame... Because it's flat
  • Weather (High Temps, Low Temps, Seasons, Sun):REPLACE ME
    Highs in the 100s and humid in the summer, drove to work at -20 one morning last winter, so you get the full range.

    Noone brags about the weather here.

    October-Christmas is delightful though.
  • Favorite things:
    Cheap!  Lowest cost of living in the country.
    No smog checks!
    What are taxes?  Property ones are basically non-existent.
    Very clean air.
    A very clean city for the most part.
    Almost no crime.
    Almost no traffic.
    Almost no homelessness.
    A good clean well run conservative city.
  • Least favorite things:
    Winters
    There aren't many options for full time RVing
    Food is all mediocre and you'll wait 45 minutes to get seated anyway
    The average citizen is obese, uneducated, and driving an SUV
    You absolutely need a car to get by.  Not designed for bikes at all (newer parts of town are getting better)
    Standard Midwest sprawl.  Land is cheap, so buildings are big, spread out, and parking lots are huge
  • 'Must Try':
    Can't think of anything
  • Stupid ordinances/laws:
    Can't think of anything
  • Words of wisdom/Advice:
    Can't think of anything
  • Sustainability options (gardening, solar, etc):
    Could definitely profit from solar, but it would be a challenge to go 100% off grid (not impossible)
    Gardens grow like crazy, and greenhouses could be easy in the winter.
    Could heat with wood for free.
    Water is free and infinite, most people have wells.
[/quote]

TxAg70

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #253 on: August 11, 2018, 11:25:21 AM »
I would like to request Ft. Worth, TX. I could move there from my job in more rural TX but housing costs are probably gonna be a bit higher and I'd like some idea from the mustachians in Ft. Worth about where to look.

aashusharma1

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #254 on: August 15, 2018, 07:16:56 AM »
Hi All,

A relocation related question not really info on the cities. How about the adding info on the investment landscape if we are moving across countries. Also what to do with investments we have currently.

In my case I am planning to move to Canada in an year or two and i was wondering when i make that move I will have to withdraw from my 401, HSA and multiple Roth accounts which i am currently max-ing out. And that will entail penalties as i am withdrawing before retirement. What should be my strategy,
----should I reduce my contributions to the HSA -assuming i may still have medical needs till i move
----Reduce 401 contribution just enough to get the employer match
----Stop contributing to Roth IRA accounts?
----Should i invest more in individual stocks in the meanwhile

All this would mean more cash in hand which i can put in CDs etc and it will be easy to move when i finally move to Canada.

Thanks in advance!
Cheers

RichMoose

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #255 on: August 15, 2018, 09:24:07 AM »
Hi All,

A relocation related question not really info on the cities. How about the adding info on the investment landscape if we are moving across countries. Also what to do with investments we have currently.

In my case I am planning to move to Canada in an year or two and i was wondering when i make that move I will have to withdraw from my 401, HSA and multiple Roth accounts which i am currently max-ing out. And that will entail penalties as i am withdrawing before retirement. What should be my strategy,
----should I reduce my contributions to the HSA -assuming i may still have medical needs till i move
----Reduce 401 contribution just enough to get the employer match
----Stop contributing to Roth IRA accounts?
----Should i invest more in individual stocks in the meanwhile

All this would mean more cash in hand which i can put in CDs etc and it will be easy to move when i finally move to Canada.

Thanks in advance!
Cheers

US-Canada tax arrangements can be very complicated and often require an accountant specializing in cross border moves to get things done efficiently and correctly.
A better thread might be the Canada Tax thread on this forum as some other Mustachians have done/are doing this move.

jscott2135

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #256 on: August 25, 2018, 07:52:16 PM »
Currently live in Bend, OR.  Since this post was originally made, Bend has gotten even more crowded and home prices have gone up a bit. But I love my home state to death and having lived in Eugene, Hillsboro and now Bend am happy to help answer any questions about these areas as well!

azu612

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #257 on: September 23, 2018, 10:11:57 AM »
Anyone have any information on locations in New Hampshire and Vermont?

dougules

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #258 on: September 25, 2018, 11:39:02 AM »
Since there was a request for Huntsville, I'll put in my 2 as a native.  Full disclosure, I'm not really enamored with it, and a driver for FIRE for me is to be able to move somewhere that's a better fit.  I'll try to be neutral since the area is good for some people.  A different take from somebody else in the area wouldn't be a bad thing. 

Huntsville, Alabama

Average housing cost: This gets us to the best part first.  It's easy to find a decent smaller older house for <$100k, maybe a tad more if you want new, big, and/or a better school district.  $200k will buy you something big and fancy. 

Indoor Hobbies:  Lots of nerdy pursuits.  If you want to 3D print a detailed 6ft replica of the Millenium Falcon or fab PCBs in your garage, this is the place for you.  Craft beer is a thing in a lot of places now, but Huntsville is keeping up in that arena.

Outdoor Hobbies: The area is decent here.  The city nestles up to a mountain with a large state park.  The Tennessee River is big and is great for water activities.  Plenty of smaller rivers for canoes and kayaks.  Plenty of hiking around including trails that start only a mile from downtown.  It's one of the best places in the country for spelunking, or does this go under "indoor hobbies"?  Gardening is popular.  Hunting and fishing are big here.  If you're into football, you'll feel right at home.

Weather: At least it's not boring.  The one guarantee is that it will be steamy from May to September.  We don't really have spring and fall  so much as random switches back and forth between winter and summer.  Winter can be just about anything.  Pick a number between 10 and 70.  Then pick a completely different number the next day.  Snow and ice is on average only about once every other winter although it's unpredictable.  It's a big event when it does snow.  We actually get more total average rainfall than Seattle, but the average doesn't tell the story.  It can be gloomy for a month straight, but it can also be sunny for a month straight.  Really, though, most of it comes in storms that pop up, drain a lake somewhere in heaven, then go away.  The storms can also be pretty strong.  The area is just as much a part of tornado alley as Oklahoma or Kansas.  Our tornadoes aren't the pretty ones, though.  They come at night hidden behind a curtain of blinding rain and hail.  Also, it's not necessarily weather, but in April the pollen is thick enough to look like yellow paint.  Allergy sufferers, you've been warned.

Favorite things:  I actually really enjoy thunderstorms.  Very lush and green.  Housing is dirt cheap.  Good for hiking and canoeing.  Great place to nerd out. 

Least Favorite things:  Transportation=driving.  Lots of sprawl.  Far right politics.  Can we talk about something other than football, fishing, or church?  The most expensive airport in the country. 

Must Try:  Southern food.  Locals will roll their eyes, but yes, you should see our real Saturn V rocket. We have the largest antebellum district in Alabama. 

Stupid ordinances/laws:  9% sales tax to fund all the asphalt.  Schools aren't very good. 

Words of Wisdom:  What you think of the area very much depends on who you are.  People who are more likely to like it here are those who don't mind driving, are focused on LCOL over other factors, don't mind hot weather, don't have allergy issues, enjoy college football, and those who are nerdy, religious, married, conservative, or introverted.  The more of those that fit you, the more likely you are to enjoy being here. 

Sustainability:  Not really a big thing here. The nerd factor does make for some interest in electric cars and solar energy, though. 

Some comments on various surrounding areas:  It's rural Alabama and Tennessee, so I think you have some idea.  It is relatively cheap in the area to live on a lake front, with a mountain top view, or on a large plot of land.  Smith Lake and Guntersville are popular areas along those lines. 

palee

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #259 on: January 27, 2019, 06:28:21 AM »
  • City, State, Country:
    Louisville, KY, USA
  • Average housing cost (specify rent or buy):
    Rent and mortgage monthly payments are fairly equal; $1000/mo will get you a 2bd 2ba residence close to amenities. Decrease cost for less desirable neighborhoods and increase for more.
  • Indoor Hobbies:
    Museums, music, breweries, distilleries, libraries
  • Outdoor Hobbies:
    Biking, hiking, many metro parks that are all in the process of being connected by a bikeable and walkable trail, approx. 100 miles around the county (which is the city). The Ohio river for boating. Outdoor festivals almost every weekend. Pop-up Bier gardens and flea markets. Many farmers markets. Neighborhood pools and quarries for swimming. AAA baseball and soccer clubs are popular events.
  • Weather (High Temps, Low Temps, Seasons, Sun):
    January is the coolest month with an average high of 41 degrees and an average low of 21 degrees. July is the warmest with an average high of 89 degrees and a low of 69 degrees. Relative high humidity but not nearly as high as the deep south. Louisville averages 195 days of sun per year.
  • Favorite things:
    Great dining scene, friendly people, abundance of free activities available, school transportation options, no tax on groceries, easy access to several airports in the region, diverse population
  • Least favorite things:
    Too far from beaches, subpar roadways, school options for special needs lacking, state economy lags behind the city
  • 'Must Try':
    Churchill Downs, Falls of the Ohio, the Olmstead Parks (Cherokee, Iroquois, and Shawnee being the biggest of many), cave and cavern tours, Louisville Megacavern ziplines, Muhammad Ali center, Slugger Museum, Speed Art Museum, The Water Tower museum, The metro park system & Big Four walking bridge over the river, Dining in NuLu, walking down Bardstown Road
  • Stupid ordinances/laws:
    tax on required insurance
  • Words of wisdom/Advice:
    Get out to free events and be willing to talk to anyone; they will talk with you and make recommendations
  • Sustainability options (gardening, solar, etc):
    Decent potential for solar; solar share purchase available through the local utility provider of gas & electric. Most power in the city is water and coal powered. Zone 6/7 for gardening and community gardens accessible, as well as CSAs in the area.
[/quote]

Cool Friend

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #260 on: February 05, 2019, 07:38:32 AM »
Request for Savannah, Georgia! I visited for a weekend some years ago and thought it was a very beautiful place.

Geographer

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #261 on: March 03, 2019, 05:42:27 PM »
Would be nice to get some more cities from the southeast US on here. How about Columbia SC, Savannah GA, or Jacksonville FL? Specifically from a walkability/bikeability perspective?

ForwardThinker

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #262 on: March 04, 2019, 01:23:34 PM »
I'd love a review of the Lancaster, PA area.  Thanks!

thisismyusername

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #263 on: March 26, 2019, 02:41:36 PM »
Salt Lake City, UT

Average housing cost: If you want to live in the city itself within an easy bike ride or transit to the downtown area, then you're looking at $300,000-$350,000 for a small 100-year old bungalow, and then it goes up from there depending on the exact location in the city, size of the house, etc.
If you are willing to live in some of the "undesirable" parts of the city, you can still get a house for under $275,000. The undesirable parts are not really that bad, just more run down, more crime, the usual. If you so desire you can push out to the suburbs and get a McHouse new build for cheaper or more expensive, depending on which suburb. COL in general is going up because of a large influx of people.

Rent is variable - you can rent one of the aforementioned small bungalows for about $1700; you can rent a new build studio downtown for $1200. Some really old small apartments I've seen for rent for around $900-1000, although I don't know if that's true anymore. It just varies.

Indoor Hobbies: SLC has one of the best indoor climbing gyms out there (The Front), as well as another climbing gym on the other side of town. Mormonism is common here, so a lot of indoor church-based activities. Your typical bars, bar trivia, board games, meetups, museums, etc. People don't really move here for the indoor activities. There is an indoor farmers' market in the winter. The library is really cool.

Outdoor Hobbies: In the winter, all manners of snowsports - skiing, snowboarding, snowshoeing. If you're in the city the slopes are about 45 minutes-1 hour away, although there is a bus that can take you out there. As far as I know the season passes for areas like Brighton and Snowbird are very expensive. The rest of the year you have hiking of all sorts (mountainous, desert, flat areas, you pick), rock climbing, lakes nearby, National parks, outdoor farmers' markets, and there are frequently festivals going on downtown.

Weather: I moved here specifically because it gets a lot of sun all year, even in the winter. Utah is one of the most extreme weather places I've lived. It gets up to the 90s/100s in the summer and down to the teens in the winter with snow. Spring and fall are very short. As a whole the weather is decent, and it's very dry so you don't have to deal with humidity. I do feel like the winter lasts longer than I'd prefer - it gets cold in October and snows and stays cold until April. You will have to pay for heating and for air conditioning, unless you're willing to suffer through the summer without it. It does not rain very much; it's a high desert.

Favorite things: I am not a snowsport person, but for people who are, that's definitely it for them. As for me, I like SLC because it's an "all right" city. It has all the amenities of a city - major airport, bars, museums, restaurants, large central park, major university, capitol - without being huge, and it is very close to almost every type of nature you could be interested in. It's in the valley of snowy mountain ranges on all sides which are beautiful, but drive a couple of hours and you're in the desert. I was able to afford a house here, which I could not in Portland where I was living before. The rock climbing gym is really good and there is lots of outdoor rock climbing to be had just minutes away. I like the architecture of the houses and old buildings in the city.

Least Favorite things: I have a lot of least favorite things here, because as a whole I just find SLC to be 'okay' but not great.
Air pollution is bad here. It's some of the worst in the country because of the inversion, and the commuter culture doesn't help. The city itself is quite small, but there is a huge population of suburbs around it that people commute in from. The multitudes of highways, billboards, strip malls, etc. make for a pretty ugly city, but the mountains help buffer that.
I do not feel like wages are keeping up with the rapidly rising COL.
The elephant in the room - the control the LDS church has over the government. The crazy liquor laws, the fact that Mormon leaders are consulted by lawmakers, etc., etc. Gerrymandering has contributed to a right-wing majority.
Additionally, the Mormon culture and its effect on the populace. Mormons in general are pretty nice but in SLC it has created this culture of perfection and 'sameness', even for those who are no longer Mormon. Everyone looks the same, there is a lot of focus on appearance so there are tons of plastic surgery places, hair salons, you-name-it. I look nothing like your typical Mormon and even though I'm comfortable with that it's hard not to feel a bit like an outcast. There just isn't a lot of diversity of types of people here, unless you really hunt them down.
The general commuter, consumer, oblivious culture is big here, and has been hard to deal with after living in Portland. People drive big cars for 1-2 hours every day to their giant new-build houses in the suburbs that don't have recycling and it doesn't bother them and they don't care.
The city is not very walkable at all. There are a few patches here and there, and if you live near downtown you'll be okay, but as a whole the blocks are HUGE and things are just very spread out.
My major beef is that, while I have met a lot of great people, the larger culture is less progressive (in every way, not just political) than I'd prefer.

Must Try: There's nothing specific to SLC that I feel like is worth commenting on, but in general just the access to nature is hard to beat. Lots of National Parks, mountains, deserts, etc. I'm sure there are snowsport-related things I could mention here. There is a very strange outdoor sculpture garden called Gilgal Gardens that is worth seeing. The temple is cool to check out.

Stupid ordinances/laws: All the liquor laws. Beers on draft and in the grocery store can't be more than 4% ABV. You can't have a cocktail with more than I think 1 shot's worth of alcohol. You can't have two drinks at a time (or something like that). You can't buy high percentage alcohol on Sunday. The legal BAC limit is 0.05%. You can only buy wine, hard alcohol, and high percentage beer from government-run liquor stores. The list goes on.

Words of Wisdom: You move here either for a job or because you like mountains and their associated activities. It is a pretty neat city overall and still relatively affordable compared to the west coast cities, but most of the people I know moved here because they liked skiing and wanted to be close to mountains. I know people who move from the east and south like it more than I think people who have moved from other western areas do.

Sustainability:  I see more efforts in the city itself than in the outskirts. Potential for solar energy is pretty good because it's frequently sunny. Vegetable gardening is easy, and fruit trees are common. There are some community gardens. You can put compost in the yard waste bins. Some areas will give you rebates for installing 'waterwise' landscaping.


stoaX

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #264 on: March 28, 2019, 03:25:56 PM »
Salt Lake City, UT

Average housing cost: If you want to live in the city itself within an easy bike ride or transit to the downtown area, then you're looking at $300,000-$350,000 for a small 100-year old bungalow, and then it goes up from there depending on the exact location in the city, size of the house, etc.
If you are willing to live in some of the "undesirable" parts of the city, you can still get a house for under $275,000. The undesirable parts are not really that bad, just more run down, more crime, the usual. If you so desire you can push out to the suburbs and get a McHouse new build for cheaper or more expensive, depending on which suburb. COL in general is going up because of a large influx of people.

Rent is variable - you can rent one of the aforementioned small bungalows for about $1700; you can rent a new build studio downtown for $1200. Some really old small apartments I've seen for rent for around $900-1000, although I don't know if that's true anymore. It just varies.

Indoor Hobbies: SLC has one of the best indoor climbing gyms out there (The Front), as well as another climbing gym on the other side of town. Mormonism is common here, so a lot of indoor church-based activities. Your typical bars, bar trivia, board games, meetups, museums, etc. People don't really move here for the indoor activities. There is an indoor farmers' market in the winter. The library is really cool.

Outdoor Hobbies: In the winter, all manners of snowsports - skiing, snowboarding, snowshoeing. If you're in the city the slopes are about 45 minutes-1 hour away, although there is a bus that can take you out there. As far as I know the season passes for areas like Brighton and Snowbird are very expensive. The rest of the year you have hiking of all sorts (mountainous, desert, flat areas, you pick), rock climbing, lakes nearby, National parks, outdoor farmers' markets, and there are frequently festivals going on downtown.

Weather: I moved here specifically because it gets a lot of sun all year, even in the winter. Utah is one of the most extreme weather places I've lived. It gets up to the 90s/100s in the summer and down to the teens in the winter with snow. Spring and fall are very short. As a whole the weather is decent, and it's very dry so you don't have to deal with humidity. I do feel like the winter lasts longer than I'd prefer - it gets cold in October and snows and stays cold until April. You will have to pay for heating and for air conditioning, unless you're willing to suffer through the summer without it. It does not rain very much; it's a high desert.

Favorite things: I am not a snowsport person, but for people who are, that's definitely it for them. As for me, I like SLC because it's an "all right" city. It has all the amenities of a city - major airport, bars, museums, restaurants, large central park, major university, capitol - without being huge, and it is very close to almost every type of nature you could be interested in. It's in the valley of snowy mountain ranges on all sides which are beautiful, but drive a couple of hours and you're in the desert. I was able to afford a house here, which I could not in Portland where I was living before. The rock climbing gym is really good and there is lots of outdoor rock climbing to be had just minutes away. I like the architecture of the houses and old buildings in the city.

Least Favorite things: I have a lot of least favorite things here, because as a whole I just find SLC to be 'okay' but not great.
Air pollution is bad here. It's some of the worst in the country because of the inversion, and the commuter culture doesn't help. The city itself is quite small, but there is a huge population of suburbs around it that people commute in from. The multitudes of highways, billboards, strip malls, etc. make for a pretty ugly city, but the mountains help buffer that.
I do not feel like wages are keeping up with the rapidly rising COL.
The elephant in the room - the control the LDS church has over the government. The crazy liquor laws, the fact that Mormon leaders are consulted by lawmakers, etc., etc. Gerrymandering has contributed to a right-wing majority.
Additionally, the Mormon culture and its effect on the populace. Mormons in general are pretty nice but in SLC it has created this culture of perfection and 'sameness', even for those who are no longer Mormon. Everyone looks the same, there is a lot of focus on appearance so there are tons of plastic surgery places, hair salons, you-name-it. I look nothing like your typical Mormon and even though I'm comfortable with that it's hard not to feel a bit like an outcast. There just isn't a lot of diversity of types of people here, unless you really hunt them down.
The general commuter, consumer, oblivious culture is big here, and has been hard to deal with after living in Portland. People drive big cars for 1-2 hours every day to their giant new-build houses in the suburbs that don't have recycling and it doesn't bother them and they don't care.
The city is not very walkable at all. There are a few patches here and there, and if you live near downtown you'll be okay, but as a whole the blocks are HUGE and things are just very spread out.
My major beef is that, while I have met a lot of great people, the larger culture is less progressive (in every way, not just political) than I'd prefer.

Must Try: There's nothing specific to SLC that I feel like is worth commenting on, but in general just the access to nature is hard to beat. Lots of National Parks, mountains, deserts, etc. I'm sure there are snowsport-related things I could mention here. There is a very strange outdoor sculpture garden called Gilgal Gardens that is worth seeing. The temple is cool to check out.

Stupid ordinances/laws: All the liquor laws. Beers on draft and in the grocery store can't be more than 4% ABV. You can't have a cocktail with more than I think 1 shot's worth of alcohol. You can't have two drinks at a time (or something like that). You can't buy high percentage alcohol on Sunday. The legal BAC limit is 0.05%. You can only buy wine, hard alcohol, and high percentage beer from government-run liquor stores. The list goes on.

Words of Wisdom: You move here either for a job or because you like mountains and their associated activities. It is a pretty neat city overall and still relatively affordable compared to the west coast cities, but most of the people I know moved here because they liked skiing and wanted to be close to mountains. I know people who move from the east and south like it more than I think people who have moved from other western areas do.

Sustainability:  I see more efforts in the city itself than in the outskirts. Potential for solar energy is pretty good because it's frequently sunny. Vegetable gardening is easy, and fruit trees are common. There are some community gardens. You can put compost in the yard waste bins. Some areas will give you rebates for installing 'waterwise' landscaping.

Good job - thanks!  I lived in the Salt Lake suburbs many years ago and may move back.  Despite the negatives you mention, those mountains are irresistible.  The lack of humidity is a bonus.  And I never had a problem with the "mormon-ess", but I'm not sensitive to those kinds of things.

chasesfish

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #265 on: April 08, 2019, 07:28:25 AM »
@hoping2retire35 - Loved your review on Charleston.  Not sure if you ares still posting, but just how hot could it be if you run at 3pm in the afternoon?  Looking to relocate from Dallas, TX and the heat you described for 6-8 weeks is basically mid-June until early October here.

waltworks

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #266 on: April 08, 2019, 10:49:23 AM »
Salt Lake City, UT

I'd add, on the negative side - there is pretty bad air pollution in winter (PM2.5) and summer as well (ozone). We lived in SLC briefly 7 years ago and found it to be unacceptable, especially with small children (so we moved 30 minutes away to Park City).

Education funding in UT is 49th or 50th in the nation (we fight with Idaho for that last place distinction) and teacher shortages/turnover are a big problem. Overall test scores are good because of the mostly Mormon population (who tend to be diligent students) but the quality of education is lower than those test scores indicate, IMO. Most non-LDS upper middle class parents in SLC send their kids to private schools.

The population is growing very fast (both high birthrate and migration) and pollution/congestion problems are probably going to be much worse in the future. It's not LA yet but the traffic is pretty darn bad if you have to get around town during normal business hours - I literally won't go to SLC from about 7-10am and then 3-6pm. Bike infrastructure is meh, you'll want to be confident sharing the road with cars if you bike commute.

The climbing and skiing are indeed excellent, and access to the desert is great if you get sick of winter. Of course, I never get sick of winter, so there's that.

I don't think most Mustachians would notice the LDS culture thing much, or be bothered by it. I have plenty of LDS friends and they're very nice folks who will politely have a cup of tea while they chat with you while you drink your coffee. Think Ned Flanders, not pushy evangelists (though if you decide to express an interest in the religion, you will get more information than you want).

-W
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 10:53:11 AM by waltworks »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #267 on: April 08, 2019, 11:15:39 AM »
Salt Lake City, UT
Education funding in UT is 49th or 50th in the nation (we fight with Idaho for that last place distinction) and teacher shortages/turnover are a big problem. Overall test scores are good because of the mostly Mormon population (who tend to be diligent students) but the quality of education is lower than those test scores indicate, IMO. Most non-LDS upper middle class parents in SLC send their kids to private schools.
On the subject of education, Utah is very homeschooling-friendly, and there are a ton of homeschooling groups, co-ops, meetups, etc.

waltworks

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #268 on: April 08, 2019, 01:08:45 PM »
On the subject of education, Utah is very homeschooling-friendly, and there are a ton of homeschooling groups, co-ops, meetups, etc.

That is a good point, for those who are interested in homeschooling, UT makes it very, very easy. You basically just fill out a form and the state will provide you with access to a ton of online and other resources.

Be aware that a lot of the homeschoolers in UT are VERY weird LDS people, but in SLC proper you can find more "normal" folks doing homeschooling.

You can also do a mixed home/public school thing if you want to mix it up. We may do that ourselves as our kids are both a couple of grades ahead at only 6/4 years old.

-W