Author Topic: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?  (Read 5990 times)

neo von retorch

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Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« on: March 22, 2017, 09:59:19 AM »
So a little background:

Early on in my discovery of MMM, I sold a 2 year old SUV (that got 32 mpg) for a 6 year old hatchback (that got 36 mpg). But I've got "car guy" in my blood. And I do lots of irrational things when it comes to cars. My best hope is buying a car that is "so me" that I keep it for a long time. (My first Fit lasted me 4 years and 60k miles, costing me about $4k in total depreciation over that time period, which isn't too bad.) So... since then, I a) bought a sports car as a third car! b) sold the sports car a year later only losing $400 to depreciation, c) sold the hatchback to my sister (she LOVES it!), d) bought a RWD monster truck... and then e) traded the RWD monster truck for a 4WD one, losing a whole bunch of money on the trade.

So, sunk costs aside...

I pretty much hate driving this beast 12 miles each way on my daily commute. My wife likes that we own a truck, because we use it for buying cheap (and free) furniture, and for bringing home firewood. But she doesn't like driving it, because it's huge. Plus she comes home over lunch 2 days/week, and visits her parents over lunch 2 days/week to walk our dog. So it's good that she's driving a 7 year old economy sedan that gets ~32+ mpg.

I guess my question is - have any of you owned a truck and really used it for truck things but then gave it up? MMM has access to an old Nissan pickup truck, right? So when he does "real truck things", he snags that. And in theory, though I've never done it, you can rent a pickup truck for ~$20 plus gas. My dad owns two trucks, but he lives 90 minutes away. My FIL owns a truck, but he keeps the miles on it real low, and we only borrowed it for serious, important stuff in the past. Now that I own a house and collect firewood, it's a little harder. Another factor is that our driveway is just "too damn small." Otherwise my favorite solution would be to own a really old (or at least, "reasonably old" truck) that is just used for "real truck things" when needed.

Another thought is that the $1k+/year I'd likely save driving a hatchback vs a truck more than makes up for any additional heating oil costs I might incur from having less firewood available.

So if you've had this sort of experience, what can you tell me about it?

patchyfacialhair

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2017, 10:07:50 AM »
Not exactly the person that fits the mold of your question, but I have rented Home Depot/UHaul trucks for a day multiple times. Probably once or twice a year. The $40 each time (fee, taxes, and gas) more than makes up for the continued expenses of even the cheapest "extra vehicle" truck in the driveway.

So, just adding my 2 cents that renting a truck is really not all that bad of an experience.

Plus, most trucks nowadays are stupid. Crew cab with a pointless 5 ft bed? Who thought of that?

Rental trucks are at least single cab with an 8ft bed.

Dave1442397

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2017, 10:38:21 AM »

MarioMario

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2017, 11:03:37 AM »
I bought an 88 Chevy truck full bed for $1k a few years back.  We used it for real truck things only.  I loved that truck, but sadly it was stolen one night from the street.

humbleMouse

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2017, 12:24:33 PM »
Buy a ford ranger for between 1k-3k on craigslist.  Parts/insurance are cheap, then you have a truck to do truck stuff with.

Slee_stack

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2017, 12:47:06 PM »
What are 'real' truck things?

If hauling is part of your everyday life, I guess.  Does hauling even amount to 50% of your use?

If you are like the folks around these parts, you might actually use the truck as a hauler once a year (or less).

Supposedly, driving a truck makes one a 'Manly Man' or a 'Hot Southern Chick' or some other ridiculous image that people pretend they are.

I've yet to see the daily commuter dually in our employee parking lot show up with anything loaded into it or attached to it, but its only been a few years so far...  Maybe he/she is hauling horse trailers EVERY Saturday.  Whats the odds?  The lack of fifth wheel and a shiny hitch suggest otherwise.

What is wrong with a small trailer or Minivan to cart stuff? MOD NOTE: You can encourage discussion and offer other viewpoints without violating forum rules.

I just can't wrap my head around the desire to own a crappy handling, poor performing, supremely overpriced vehicle like most trucks are.

I know I'm a bit jaded, but I have owned a truck in the past and I realized it was an incredibly stupid purchase.  Never again.  I think folks fall too much into the fantasy of what they COULD do with a truck or how they think others PERCEIVE them, but never temper that with the reality of what they ACTUALLY will do with one.

I'll apologize to all responsible truck owners on this forum, but my first instinct is to assume you are a clown.  Sorry.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 12:53:10 PM by swick »

neo von retorch

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2017, 01:00:34 PM »
So, just adding my 2 cents that renting a truck is really not all that bad of an experience.

Plus, most trucks nowadays are stupid. Crew cab with a pointless 5 ft bed? Who thought of that?

Indeed. This answer has, so far, been one of the more useful ones. The RWD monster truck was a crew cab with sub-6 ft bed. The 4WD monster is "double" cab with a monstrous 6' 6" bed.

Buy a little Japanese import truck?

https://www.japaneseclassics.com/vehicle/1990-honda-acty-attack/

This thing looks amazing! Of course, I'd buy it and sell it in 6 months for something else more well-rounded ;) Also, that site is very dangerous. I want all the things...

I bought an 88 Chevy truck full bed for $1k a few years back.  We used it for real truck things only.  I loved that truck, but sadly it was stolen one night from the street.
Buy a ford ranger for between 1k-3k on craigslist.  Parts/insurance are cheap, then you have a truck to do truck stuff with.

Both of these suggestions are good - if you have room to store a third car, or if you think that's an enjoyable commute vehicle. Unfortunately, that doesn't fit my profile.

What are 'real' truck things?

If hauling is part of your everyday life, I guess.  Does hauling even amount to 50% of your use?
...
What is wrong with a small trailer or Minivan to cart stuff?  Maybe its 'too {slur}' looking?  Haha, look at that {slur} hauling wood on a trailer behind his Fit...ha ha ha !  Let me gunner up and roll some coal in their face.  That'll show 'em...ha ha.
...

I owned a Fit for 6 of my 20 years owning cars. 2 of those years, it was a purple Fit. I don't think I'm the ideal target of your rant. As very specifically specified in my post, "real truck things" is mostly going out and getting firewood. Takes at least 4 truck loads to satisfy my wood stove, and that's with less than 24 hour operation. That and things like furniture or bringing home tools; most of those things, though, I can and have done in a Fit. Not all purchases fit in a Fit, but then again, many don't fit in a 6.5' truck bed, either. But yeah, no way does hauling even amount to 5% of my use. 250 round trip drives to work = 6000 miles. And if I get wood from my BIL, that'll be a nice, wasteful 150 mile trip, hitting 2.5% of total mileage. I just re-read my post, and I pretty said "I don't want to keep driving the truck", rather than "I think it's amazing and you'll have to work hard to talk me out of it." I certainly didn't bring "apparent masculinity" into it. Any reason you felt the need to?

Overall, I'm saying "hey, this is my first experience owning a truck, and I do know it's not all it's chalked up to be; I want to buy a sensible commuter, but I also want to know what it'll be like after that happens, since I'm obviously really bad at predicting the future." So, apparently my future is to rant at people that still own trucks.... ?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 11:06:24 AM by neo von retorch »

MarioMario

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2017, 01:26:44 PM »
So, just adding my 2 cents that renting a truck is really not all that bad of an experience.

Plus, most trucks nowadays are stupid. Crew cab with a pointless 5 ft bed? Who thought of that?

Indeed. This answer has, so far, been one of the more useful ones. The RWD monster truck was a crew cab with sub-6 ft bed. The 4WD monster is "double" cab with a monstrous 6' 6" bed.

Buy a little Japanese import truck?

https://www.japaneseclassics.com/vehicle/1990-honda-acty-attack/

This thing looks amazing! Of course, I'd buy it and sell it in 6 months for something else more well-rounded ;) Also, that site is very dangerous. I want all the things...

I bought an 88 Chevy truck full bed for $1k a few years back.  We used it for real truck things only.  I loved that truck, but sadly it was stolen one night from the street.
Buy a ford ranger for between 1k-3k on craigslist.  Parts/insurance are cheap, then you have a truck to do truck stuff with.

Both of these suggestions are good - if you have room to store a third car, or if you think that's an enjoyable commute vehicle. Unfortunately, that doesn't fit my profile.

What are 'real' truck things?

If hauling is part of your everyday life, I guess.  Does hauling even amount to 50% of your use?
...
What is wrong with a small trailer or Minivan to cart stuff?  Maybe its 'too queer' looking?  Haha, look at that queer hauling wood on a trailer behind his Fit...ha ha ha !  Let me gunner up and roll some coal in their face.  That'll show 'em...ha ha.
...

I owned a Fit for 6 of my 20 years owning cars. 2 of those years, it was a purple Fit. I don't think I'm the ideal target of your rant. As very specifically specified in my post, "real truck things" is mostly going out and getting firewood. Takes at least 4 truck loads to satisfy my wood stove, and that's with less than 24 hour operation. That and things like furniture or bringing home tools; most of those things, though, I can and have done in a Fit. Not all purchases fit in a Fit, but then again, many don't fit in a 6.5' truck bed, either. But yeah, no way does hauling even amount to 5% of my use. 250 round trip drives to work = 6000 miles. And if I get wood from my BIL, that'll be a nice, wasteful 150 mile trip, hitting 2.5% of total mileage. I just re-read my post, and I pretty said "I don't want to keep driving the truck", rather than "I think it's amazing and you'll have to work hard to talk me out of it." I certainly didn't bring "apparent masculinity" into it. Any reason you felt the need to?

Overall, I'm saying "hey, this is my first experience owning a truck, and I do know it's not all it's chalked up to be; I want to buy a sensible commuter, but I also want to know what it'll be like after that happens, since I'm obviously really bad at predicting the future." So, apparently my future is to rant at people that still own trucks.... ?
You don't have street parking?

neo von retorch

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2017, 01:28:51 PM »
I bought an 88 Chevy truck full bed for $1k a few years back.  We used it for real truck things only.  I loved that truck, but sadly it was stolen one night from the street.
Buy a ford ranger for between 1k-3k on craigslist.  Parts/insurance are cheap, then you have a truck to do truck stuff with.

Both of these suggestions are good - if you have room to store a third car, or if you think that's an enjoyable commute vehicle. Unfortunately, that doesn't fit my profile.
You don't have street parking?

Sort of, but essentially (for the sake of this discussion thread and my car buying) no.

homestead neohio

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2017, 01:44:13 PM »
Hey neo,

I bought my dad's old Tacoma when he wanted a truck that was not 15 years old.  It was in really good shape.  I kept it for 2 years and used it mostly for bringing stovewood to the property, sometimes lumber from the home improvement store.  It needed things.  Power steering went out.  Brakes locked up, tried to replace myself but too much rust under there, took it to a shop.  I had to pay for tags and insurance every year.  It was frustrating and expensive.  I sold it for 4k, bought a used 4x6 trailer for $400, a hitch for my hatchback for maybe $200 (hitch, receiver, ball, light kit, installed by me), $3400 to Vanguard. 

This was a great optimization as we are not paying to keep an entire vehicle in good condition just to use a few times a year.  No headaches, and I hauled a load of wood home in it yesterday.  I wouldn't haul things up or down a mountain like that with my hatchback, but it's fine for what I'm doing.  I can't load this thing down quite as much as I did the Tacoma, and sometimes backing in is a pain, but it is also easier to load being lower to the ground.  YMMV.

Clean Shaven

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2017, 01:53:01 PM »
Do you have space to store a small trailer (side yard/ back yard)?  And will your car safely tow a 1500# trailer around town?  (assuming appropriately equipped -- add cost of hitch + wiring) 

A small utility or cargo trailer can be really useful, and easy to acquire on craigslist for $500-1000.  Nearly zero maintenance cost. 

neo von retorch

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2017, 01:57:31 PM »
Hey neo,

I bought my dad's old Tacoma when he wanted a truck that was not 15 years old.  It was in really good shape.  I kept it for 2 years and used it mostly for bringing stovewood to the property, sometimes lumber from the home improvement store.  It needed things.  Power steering went out.  Brakes locked up, tried to replace myself but too much rust under there, took it to a shop.  I had to pay for tags and insurance every year.  It was frustrating and expensive.  I sold it for 4k, bought a used 4x6 trailer for $400, a hitch for my hatchback for maybe $200 (hitch, receiver, ball, light kit, installed by me), $3400 to Vanguard. 

This was a great optimization as we are not paying to keep an entire vehicle in good condition just to use a few times a year.  No headaches, and I hauled a load of wood home in it yesterday.  I wouldn't haul things up or down a mountain like that with my hatchback, but it's fine for what I'm doing.  I can't load this thing down quite as much as I did the Tacoma, and sometimes backing in is a pain, but it is also easier to load being lower to the ground.  YMMV.
Do you have space to store a small trailer (side yard/ back yard)?  And will your car safely tow a 1500# trailer around town?  (assuming appropriately equipped -- add cost of hitch + wiring) 

A small utility or cargo trailer can be really useful, and easy to acquire on craigslist for $500-1000.  Nearly zero maintenance cost. 

I can definitely fit a 4x6 trailer more easily than I can fit "an extra truck." Whatever car I would get for commuting could probably tow a 1000-1500# trailer... depending on the vehicle. It has not yet been selected. A current generation Fit or Mazda3 hatchback would be higher on the list than they should be... but still a solid savings from the truck (i.e. easily $12-15k back in my pocket, plus reduced insurance, plus doubling gas mileage.)

homestead neohio - what kind of hatchback? Did you have to weld the hitch hardware to your car?

homestead neohio

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2017, 02:16:57 PM »
I already had a 2012 Prius C as my commuter.  We have a Civic, too, but when we go down to 1 car we're keeping the C, so that's what I put the hitch on.  No drilling or welding, bolted right on.  The electric motor in the hybrid drive train provides great low-end torque when loaded down.  My trailer and hitch are both rated for 2000lb towing, 200lb tongue weight, but I don't put that much weight in it.  Last night I got 45 mpg hauling probably 800-1000lbs of wood home. 

The Tacoma always got ~20mpg, and that was not a monster truck. 

Slee_stack

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2017, 02:37:46 PM »
I owned a Fit for 6 of my 20 years owning cars. 2 of those years, it was a purple Fit. I don't think I'm the ideal target of your rant. As very specifically specified in my post, "real truck things" is mostly going out and getting firewood. Takes at least 4 truck loads to satisfy my wood stove, and that's with less than 24 hour operation. That and things like furniture or bringing home tools; most of those things, though, I can and have done in a Fit. Not all purchases fit in a Fit, but then again, many don't fit in a 6.5' truck bed, either. But yeah, no way does hauling even amount to 5% of my use. 250 round trip drives to work = 6000 miles. And if I get wood from my BIL, that'll be a nice, wasteful 150 mile trip, hitting 2.5% of total mileage. I just re-read my post, and I pretty said "I don't want to keep driving the truck", rather than "I think it's amazing and you'll have to work hard to talk me out of it." I certainly didn't bring "apparent masculinity" into it. Any reason you felt the need to?

Overall, I'm saying "hey, this is my first experience owning a truck, and I do know it's not all it's chalked up to be; I want to buy a sensible commuter, but I also want to know what it'll be like after that happens, since I'm obviously really bad at predicting the future." So, apparently my future is to rant at people that still own trucks.... ?
You may not have noticed that I didn't quote YOUR original post.  I wasn't singling you out as any particular offender in any manner.  The 'rant' was aimed at the general reader to nod his/her head along with or be offended, or just make no observation and move along. 

I tend to use context and perhaps (unfairly) hope others use it as well.  So no, it was not aimed directly at you as a personal affront.  It was admittedly written to be a little inflammatory in general to add spice to the discussion.

I don't kid when I say that over 60% of the vehicles in our employee parking lots are trucks.  Do 60% of people really NEED a truck?  What portion of that 60% have simply maximized the money they've thrown down the toilet with their vehicle purchase decision?   Trucks are simply the worst option nearly anyone can choose as a passenger vehicle.

neo von retorch

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2017, 11:42:44 AM »
That's fair. I kind of didn't want to respond at all, but I did anyway. As someone talking about selling his stupid truck to buy an efficient car, it just seemed like a misplaced rant, that's all :)

I'm considering a $14k Mazda3 w/ 25k on it as a suitable replacement. Still not full-on MMM territory, but lots of the "car guy" goodness I hope will keep me in one car for a long, long time.

Imustacheyouaquestion

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2017, 12:32:07 PM »
You want something fun to drive, you also want something practical to drive 24 miles per day roundtrip, and you also want something to haul firewood and furniture with (less than 5% of the time).

I think the Mustachian answer is to buy a practical car for commuting, such as a hatchback with good fuel efficiency that you could also fill up with firewood or occasionally tow a utility trailer with. As you acknowledge, savings from not daily driving a truck will outweigh whatever fuel costs you incur from not using firewood to heat your house, so there's no Mustachian argument for keeping the truck. Rent or borrow a truck for those furniture needs. Unless you're hauling furniture for your side business flipping used furniture on Craigslist every weekend, there's also no Mustachian argument for paying insurance and maintenance costs on a truck just so you have the option to save a few bucks on occasion.

Rent an exotic or luxury sports car for a weekend trip somewhere once a year to get your "car guy" fix. It sounds like you already bought a sports car to replace something Mustachian once and realized it was a mistake. Why repeat that?

neo von retorch

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2017, 12:36:15 PM »
Rent an exotic or luxury sports car for a weekend trip somewhere once a year to get your "car guy" fix. It sounds like you already bought a sports car to replace something Mustachian once and realized it was a mistake. Why repeat that?

I don't think a 6MT hatchback that gets 35 mpg is equitable to a 10 year old 2-door sports coupe. Having a "third car", particularly one that is truly single-use (fun-to-drive) is a mistake. Having an overall well-rounded car that happens to be fun-to-drive does not feel like a mistake to me.

kendallf

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2017, 01:24:38 PM »
+1 on the trailer. 

I'm a car guy, but my family owns 3 Prii now.  I put a bolt on receiver hitch on mine (the "work truck" of the family, 212k miles, purchased for $4400).  I sold my Ford Lightning a couple of years ago and finished the renovation of my last house using the Prius and trailer to haul all the things, including 2000 lbs. of brick to the landfill (yes, that was pushing it).

I keep a practical car and then work on low budget project cars on the side, which I find fulfilling.  My Buick GN went to the painter yesterday; I paid $2k for it originally from a pawn shop, and have perhaps $4k in it total now.

neo von retorch

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2017, 02:08:07 PM »
+1 on the trailer. 

I'm a car guy, but my family owns 3 Prii now.  I put a bolt on receiver hitch on mine (the "work truck" of the family, 212k miles, purchased for $4400).  I sold my Ford Lightning a couple of years ago and finished the renovation of my last house using the Prius and trailer to haul all the things, including 2000 lbs. of brick to the landfill (yes, that was pushing it).

I keep a practical car and then work on low budget project cars on the side, which I find fulfilling.  My Buick GN went to the painter yesterday; I paid $2k for it originally from a pawn shop, and have perhaps $4k in it total now.

This is a great anecdote! Going from a Ford Lightning to a Prius. And I'm only considering a change from a monster truck (double cab 4WD half ton) to a manual hatchback!! Thanks for sharing. Trucks only hold ~2000 lbs in their bed (at least, officially) so a 1000-1500 lb trailer seems like it would be plenty... I have not used the truck to tow (or even got a receiver yet.)

use2betrix

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2017, 04:04:04 PM »
I'm constantly in the truck owning contemplation. I own a 2013 F250 that's paid off. I also live full time in a 42' fifth wheel. I do contract work in industrial construction so move 1-2x a year typically. Since owning the fifth wheel and truck for four full years I've towed it 6000 miles, which would cost me about $8,000 to pay someone to move it. I don't need a truck most of the other times when not towing.

Some people have fifth wheels they tow regularly, weekly or monthly. No, they aren't going to hook up and drive to work with it, so I'm sure that's why you see trucks at work with nothing hooked to them.

Unless you KNOW someone has a truck they never actually need it for, you're (general form of you're) an idiot if you just assume they don't tow because you don't see them towing.

For someone like myself, having an extra car to drive on top of my truck for when I'm not using my truck for truck purposes, would be 1000x more inconvenient. Then I'd have to... buy my wife a bigger vehicle to tow my car when we move cause I'm driving my truck and towing my trailer? Lol.

I might still sell it and get something smaller but we'll see. My truck is badass, a blast, and easy to drive and maneuver since I don't live right inside big cities. Plus, we still save a lot of money, so it's not like I'm scraping by to afford my truck.

We haven't paid for internet or cable in years beyond our phone services. How many people here have internet but could honestly get by with what their phone provides? Unless you run an internet based business or something, I think it's a luxury most don't TRULY need, yet most people here seem ok to justify.

use2betrix

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2017, 04:10:38 PM »
I also find it funny when people here boast and suggest towing with vehicles not rated to tow. If you're towing 1500 lbs with a car not rated to tow, and you get in an accident and injure or kill someone you are very potentially fu****, and rightfully so. This is a very dangerous and illegal and people toss the idea around here like they're smart when they are really just TOO cheap and putting others lives at risk because of it.

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2017, 05:35:52 PM »
We're a one-car family with a Subaru Outback. You'd be amazed at what you can get inside a hatchback wagon. Slap a tarp down, and it can probably hold as much firewood as a standard truck. I've gotten two recliners in there before. When we absolutely need a truck, we can rent one easily from UHAUL for about $35 total fees, gas, etc. If I have a big load from the hardware store (multiple storm doors for example), it is sometimes worth it just to pay the $50 to have them deliver it. I've also made friends with a neighbor with a beater truck. I just return it with a full tank and a six-pack. All that being said, you do lose the convenience factor of having easy access to a truck. But the savings in insurance, tax, maintenance, etc. is well worth it to us.

neo von retorch

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2017, 07:06:19 AM »
We're a one-car family with a Subaru Outback. You'd be amazed at what you can get inside a hatchback wagon. Slap a tarp down, and it can probably hold as much firewood as a standard truck. I've gotten two recliners in there before. When we absolutely need a truck, we can rent one easily from UHAUL for about $35 total fees, gas, etc. If I have a big load from the hardware store (multiple storm doors for example), it is sometimes worth it just to pay the $50 to have them deliver it. I've also made friends with a neighbor with a beater truck. I just return it with a full tank and a six-pack. All that being said, you do lose the convenience factor of having easy access to a truck. But the savings in insurance, tax, maintenance, etc. is well worth it to us.

I believe it! I used my first Fit to move the entirety of an Ikea king-sized bed frame and mattress (maybe that's Ikea magic), to pick up a chest freezer for my mom (the guy at the store was like, nah... and then we easily loaded it and closed the hatch); I didn't get much furniture in it. (I did move 2 fluffy sofas with the CX-5, but with the back hatch open...) My second Fit did carry small amounts of firewood, but never a "load." Just enough for a night or two of camping. So, I'm definitely pro-hatchback, and now that my wife's convinced, here's the plan:
  • Get a truck load of firewood rounds on Saturday (try to split by hand, borrow pneumatic from neighbor if needed)
  • Clean up 3 downed trees on my neighbors' properties to get through this year
  • Take down a dead ash to get me through half of next year
  • Clean up the truck, photograph and list it for private party sale
If all that goes well, then I'll be shopping for a hatchback. (2013-2014 Mazda3 or Honda Fit most likely.)

Dicey

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2017, 11:00:36 AM »
What is wrong with a small trailer or Minivan to cart stuff?  Maybe its [unnecessary slur] looking?  Haha, look at that [unnecessary slur] hauling wood on a trailer behind his Fit...ha ha ha !  Let me gunner up and roll some coal in their face.  That'll show 'em...ha ha.
Should you ever wonder who reported your post to the Mods, I am raising my hand. Shame that this post is two days old and no one called you out on it before now.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 12:33:59 PM by Dicey »

Laura33

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2017, 12:00:05 PM »
So, FWIW, I am a total car guy, and I have a secret and abiding love for pickups, so I get it.  I like both extremes:  I like very small fast cars, and I like big pickups that make me feel like I can throw my life in the back and call it good.  The problem is, as you are finding, they just don't make sense.  DH does a lot of woodworking, and we have done a variety of home projects, so the idea of having a vehicle that can take a full sheet of plywood or drywall or something is very appealing.  But the reality is we can't use a two-seater because we have kids, and by the time you get a quad cab + a bed large enough to tote a full sheet of plywood, it doesn't fit in a garage or on a normal-sized street/driveway. 

So my advice would be to scrap the pickup idea and focus on the other end of the spectrum by finding a car that is fun to drive on a daily basis, while still being as practical as possible.  For me, that would mean a Mazda 3 or WRX hatch -- great little daily driver, but you can at least put the seats down and tote most of what you need day-to-day.  And then rent/borrow a unitasker truck-truck when you need one.  Or, like others have mentioned, get a vehicle rated to tow at least a little and get a trailer (which is obviously more useful if you are hauling wood weekly or whatever).

Tl;dr: you can't get both "fun to drive" and "tote anything" in the same vehicle, so plan to maximize daily utility/fun instead of focusing on meeting your worst-case, once-in-a-blue-moon needs.  Why sacrifice fun every day to be able to tote wood once a month?

Bimmy

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2017, 06:35:56 PM »
On renting trailers- Uhaul will let you keep a trailer for 23 hours and 59 minutes- and only charge you for one day. I like to pick up the trailer at 5pm, load it at night, use it all the next day, and then return the next day at 4:59pm (or earlier). Really lets me maximize how long I keep the trailer.

waltworks

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2017, 07:15:20 PM »
Get a used shifter cart and race it to get your performance-car thing out of the way. At the same time buy a trailer to pull it around with and haul wood when you aren't pulling the crazy fast fun machine.

The bottom line, folks, is that street legal cars are completely lame, no matter how souped up they are or how dangerously/badly you drive them. If you want thrills, go do it right, and then you won't care about your street legal car anymore except that it sips gas and keeps going, because it's lame no matter what.

-W

Syonyk

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2017, 09:02:42 PM »
I have a truck, regularly use it as a truck, and don't drive it around empty that often.  But I live in the country on 2 mostly unimproved acres, surrounded by quite a few more acres of family property, and I need 4WD to get around my hillside depressingly often for as dry as it is out here (loose dry dirt is just as bad as mud for getting stuck).  And my wife's family does antique car meets (1920s stuff), so we tow those to meets, and we're planning a 5th wheel in a few years once kid(s) are older - so I've got a truck, use a truck, and plan to keep the truck.  That said:

So... since then, I a) bought a sports car as a third car! b) sold the sports car a year later only losing $400 to depreciation, c) sold the hatchback to my sister (she LOVES it!), d) bought a RWD monster truck... and then e) traded the RWD monster truck for a 4WD one, losing a whole bunch of money on the trade.

Are you counting new vehicle registration fees?  Depending on the state and age of the car, registering a car after a sale can be more than depreciation in terms of cost.  There's a big "moving around vehicles" cost, and with used cars, my experience is that the first six months is expensive because you have to fix stuff the previous owner didn't notice (or didn't fix, knowing they were going to sell it - either way is the same result).

Quote
My wife likes that we own a truck, because we use it for buying cheap (and free) furniture, and for bringing home firewood. But she doesn't like driving it, because it's huge. Plus she comes home over lunch 2 days/week, and visits her parents over lunch 2 days/week to walk our dog. So it's good that she's driving a 7 year old economy sedan that gets ~32+ mpg.

That's an argument for a light trailer, not a truck.  It certainly sounds like a trailer would work for what you need, though if you're going to push the 2000 lb tow rating of many small cars, you should really get something with trailer brakes.  I've towed 1500lb with a Subaru Outback through the mountains with no trailer brakes, and it isn't something I care to do regularly.

Quote
Otherwise my favorite solution would be to own a really old (or at least, "reasonably old" truck) that is just used for "real truck things" when needed.

That's certainly an option if you're mechanically inclined.  Paying someone to keep an old truck running is painfully expensive, doing it yourself can be absurdly cheap.  If you are going to maintain it yourself, get something bog standard and common - a Mazda rotary pickup would be a bad idea, an old Ford Ranger or F150 would be a great idea.

Quote
Another thought is that the $1k+/year I'd likely save driving a hatchback vs a truck more than makes up for any additional heating oil costs I might incur from having less firewood available.

I'm under the impression that firewood, delivered, isn't that expensive for the heat value delivered.  If you're on heating oil, you might benefit from getting your furnace replaced as well - the older oil burners are painfully inefficient.  But you can do the math with how much wood/oil you go through and how much they cost.

But, in general, it sounds like your problem is "moving bulky things," not "needing a tow vehicle."  If the use case is just being able to move large things on occasion and the weight isn't that huge (firewood does tend to get heavy in a hurry), a trailer and a tow vehicle will work fine.  If you're heavy, get trailer brakes and the proper wiring for it.

===========

Not exactly the person that fits the mold of your question, but I have rented Home Depot/UHaul trucks for a day multiple times.

Part of the feasibility of that will depend on how far away those are.  Living a good bit out of town, at least for me, "Drive into town, rent a truck, haul stuff back, dig it out because it got stuck, drive it back into town, come back home" is not a thing I'd care to do on a regular basis.

Quote
Plus, most trucks nowadays are stupid. Crew cab with a pointless 5 ft bed? Who thought of that?

I'd wondered about those for a while, and someone pointed out that they're great tow vehicles.  If you need a vehicle capable of towing fairly heavy but don't need the bed space (a new F150 can be configured to tow over 10k lbs), those make sense.  However, a tow vehicle that's used for heavy towing is fairly obvious - either you've got a gooseneck hitch in the bed, a set of rails for a 5th wheel hitch, or a beefy rear hitch - and for any of those, you'll almost certainly have a round 7 pin connector for trailer brakes/lights/etc somewhere near the hitch as well.  If it has none of those, it's not being used to tow.

===============

I also find it funny when people here boast and suggest towing with vehicles not rated to tow. If you're towing 1500 lbs with a car not rated to tow, and you get in an accident and injure or kill someone you are very potentially fu****, and rightfully so. This is a very dangerous and illegal and people toss the idea around here like they're smart when they are really just TOO cheap and putting others lives at risk because of it.

Seriously.  The concept of tow ratings and GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) is pretty regularly ignored here, and it's bad advice, and a bad idea in general.

If you're getting tow rating advice from someone who has never towed and just believes the marketing material, you're going to have a bad time.  Towing at or slightly below tow ratings is fine, if you're towing through Nebraska and Iowa.  It's somewhere between a bit expensive and downright stupid through the mountains.  I'm set up to tow around 14k, and I really wouldn't want to pull much past 10k except very locally on my truck - and at 10k, it'd better be a 5th wheel.  Pushing the limits works on occasion, but there's no margin of error, and if you're coming down a mountain at or above the tow rating and the trailer brakes quit (which happens for a wide variety of reasons), you'd damned well better be able to maintain control of your trailer and get it safely stopped without the trailer brakes - because if you can't, the chances of someone dying get very, very high.  And it might not be you.  Insurance and courts won't look kindly on someone who was towing 15k on a truck rated for 10k who lost control on a grade and killed someone.

The same is true for loading a hatchback up with firewood/rock/etc.  You can exceed gross vehicle weight on most small cars with four adults in the seats, and stuffing them full of heavy stuff pretty much guarantees you're over, badly.  Just because it fits doesn't mean it's wise.

==================

Get a used shifter cart and race it to get your performance-car thing out of the way.

Motorcycles also do a very nice job of fixing that.  I know exactly when my interest in fast cars died completely - the day that I ended up racing an older Camero with some work, with a motorcycle that was older than me (500cc of fury).  And we ran dead even.  And I knew that I had a heavy, underpowered motorcycle.

waltworks

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2017, 09:44:11 PM »
Get a used shifter cart and race it to get your performance-car thing out of the way.
Motorcycles also do a very nice job of fixing that.  I know exactly when my interest in fast cars died completely - the day that I ended up racing an older Camero with some work, with a motorcycle that was older than me (500cc of fury).  And we ran dead even.  And I knew that I had a heavy, underpowered motorcycle.

Yes, that's very true. I have owned a lot (mostly dirtbikes) of motos in my life and they smoke the living hell out of almost all 4-wheeled things (though the carts have some tight road course advantages).

My larger point was that operating a vehicle on the street (at least in any vaguely legal/responsible way) will seem pretty lame after racing almost anything on a closed course. The best way to kill your love of fast cars is to realize they are slow and lame.

Of course, financially, race tires and travel and that sort of thing are going to eat any savings pretty quick...

-W

neo von retorch

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2017, 06:18:51 AM »
....
Are you counting new vehicle registration fees?
...

Lots of good thoughts in here. As I said, "I lost a lost of money." Counting the registration fees changes the exact amount, only ;)
(If you must know, I spent $834 just in state sales tax buying the 350Z, plus ~$150 in tax/title/tags; I don't count that in the $400 I lost to depreciation.)

I also own a 2004 Suzuki SV650S; agree motorcycle is preferred "third car" for sports car "experience"; but often not a great commuter. (I still haven't had the nerve to try it in the rain.)

Laura33

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2017, 01:12:01 PM »
Get a used shifter cart and race it to get your performance-car thing out of the way.
Motorcycles also do a very nice job of fixing that.  I know exactly when my interest in fast cars died completely - the day that I ended up racing an older Camero with some work, with a motorcycle that was older than me (500cc of fury).  And we ran dead even.  And I knew that I had a heavy, underpowered motorcycle.

Yes, that's very true. I have owned a lot (mostly dirtbikes) of motos in my life and they smoke the living hell out of almost all 4-wheeled things (though the carts have some tight road course advantages).

My larger point was that operating a vehicle on the street (at least in any vaguely legal/responsible way) will seem pretty lame after racing almost anything on a closed course. The best way to kill your love of fast cars is to realize they are slow and lame.

Of course, financially, race tires and travel and that sort of thing are going to eat any savings pretty quick...

-W

All depends on how you look at it.  Yes, there is nothing like a properly-equipped vehicle on a racetrack for sheer adrenaline and joy.  But I have a job and kids and other demands on my time and cash, so there is no universe in which I get to do that every day. 

OTOH, I do commute every day.  So, sure, I could get in the car every morning, thinking, "damn, this is lame, it's so totally inferior to the track," and just write off xxx minutes of my daily life as insufficient.  Or I can say, well, I'm going to be in a vehicle xxx minutes every day anyway, so I might as well choose one that I actually enjoy driving so I can get as much fun/joy as possible out of a necessary chore.

waltworks

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2017, 06:35:06 PM »
Different worlds, I guess. Anything I can operate legally on public streets is pretty much like driving a mule to me. I just want the minimum possible vehicle to accomplish the task. The entire concept of having fun driving on the street is totally alien. If I was having fun driving on a public road I would most certainly be endangering people around me (not to mention breaking numerous laws).

But if you truly derive enjoyment from your car (truck), by all means spend money on it. That's the point of money, after all.

-W


SwordGuy

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2017, 09:37:51 PM »
If you've need to pull a horse trailer or something like that on a routine basis, or you've got to carry lumber to a job site multiple times a week, you probably need a truck.  Otherwise, you almost certainly don't.

My wife and I buy distressed houses, renovate them, and then rent them out.

We've already put two on the market and we're working on three more.    A truck would be pretty handy.   

But we don't NEED one.   Seriously.   We don't NEED a truck.

I picked up a $300 folding trailer from Harbor Freight.   Had a trailer hitch on our sedan to pull it with.  Bought some lumber and nuts and bolts to become the bed and railings on the trailer.  And bought a forever trailer license plate to go with it.

Total cost was under $1000.   Would a truck be handier?  Yeah, but it would cost thousands and thousands more than that trailer.   

If we needed such a lot of supplies at one time that the trailer would be inadequate, the odds are that my back would already be inadequate, too.   I can pay Lowes to deliver the massive order for about $80.   Saves me a bunch of time and my back, too.

So, unless you are in the 0.001% or less of couples that actually NEED a truck because you'll use it's truck features on a frequent basis, you don't NEED a truck.   I don't know whether rental trucks come with trailer hitches or not, but if they do, you would save money by renting a truck if you just needed it for a weekend a month to pull a horse trailer.




neo von retorch

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2017, 10:08:29 AM »
Different worlds, I guess. Anything I can operate legally on public streets is pretty much like driving a mule to me. I just want the minimum possible vehicle to accomplish the task. The entire concept of having fun driving on the street is totally alien. If I was having fun driving on a public road I would most certainly be endangering people around me (not to mention breaking numerous laws).

But if you truly derive enjoyment from your car (truck), by all means spend money on it. That's the point of money, after all.

-W

Definitely a "personal definition of fun." I get joy out of shifting, accelerating through a curve in a low-powered car that can hold the turn yet can barely break the speed limit, and I get joy out of watching my gas mileage. At least one of those things is probably not fun to someone on a racetrack ;) There's also "adaptation." If you spend time on a track, operating high-powered, lightweight vehicles, exactly as you say, "a street legal vehicle will feel like a mule." I've driven 50mpg carts, but I've only operated my motorcycle on the street, so save a few idiotic runs above the speed limit in my younger years, I only ride that thing with a couple of Harley guys at rather legal speeds -- it's more a relaxation thing than adrenaline (and my sport bike will likely be swapped for a cruiser in another year or two.) All that to say, driving a little hatchback on some back roads at reasonable (but occasionally, just barely illegal) speeds is interesting to me. I don't think of it as racing, and my driving is never about me and other drivers. It's about me and the car and the road.

I also agree with all of the posters that keep telling a guy that is selling his truck that I don't need a truck ;)

Slee_stack

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2017, 10:53:36 AM »
What is wrong with a small trailer or Minivan to cart stuff?  Maybe its [unnecessary slur] looking?  Haha, look at that [unnecessary slur] hauling wood on a trailer behind his Fit...ha ha ha !  Let me gunner up and roll some coal in their face.  That'll show 'em...ha ha.
Should you ever wonder who reported your post to the Mods, I am raising my hand. Shame that this post is two days old and no one called you out on it before now.
As long as you reporting it makes you feel better, its all good.  A little weird you want to be noticed for it, but OK.

I've personally been called (the label I used) multiple times by similar stereotypes when riding my bicycle in 'backcountry'.  The first few times I was offended, but then I began to wonder why I should feel that way.

I started being emboldened by the label (and its similar ones) at some point.  It no longer has any power over me, if it ever really did.  Incidentally, its exactly why I used it to poke fun at the silly people who shout it...like its bad?  Really, it isn't!

I'm sorry if it offends you personally though.  Its no fun being 100% PC 100% of the time.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 10:56:15 AM by Slee_stack »

neo von retorch

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2017, 12:05:53 PM »
https://rideapart.com/articles/top-five-small-and-inexpensive-cars-that-can-towhaul

Quote
We at DriveApart do advise as always that you invest in a trailer with its own braking system as the extra burden put on these small cars and their braking systems can cause them to wear quickly or possibly be overwhelmed on very steep grades.
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neo von retorch

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Re: Mustachian Moves: Sell Monster Truck?
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2017, 07:07:55 AM »
It took a while, but after my wife swapped out cars, and I cringed at the thought of ending the month with a decrease in balance sheet net worth, I swapped out the monster truck for a slightly more mustachian but still wildly extravagant 2015 Mazda3 GT (6MT) w/ 8k on the odometer. So far, the computer says I'm getting 32 mpg, but I expect that to improve as I get back into the swing of driving stick shift. Haven't decided if I'll ravage this with a towing setup yet.