Author Topic: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?  (Read 14392 times)

havregryn

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2019, 10:31:25 AM »
When I read VV's posts, I would be more willing to bet that it is the MIL who came up with the idea to quit her job and babysit instead and not VV, who probably thinks it's a great idea because it sounds better than daycare.
I am guessing it is her first kid so she probably doesn't have a realistic idea of what full time care for an infant and then toddler will look like so she also can't realistically assess how capable MIL is to perform it and how much it should be paid. 

mm1970

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #51 on: November 05, 2019, 10:42:36 AM »
My mother-in-law wants to retire. She's worked all of her life, but she hasn't earned a lot and doesn't have much in savings. She is 63 now and if she retires today, she would get $1300 per month from SS in income, and that's it. If she waited until 67, she would get $1700/mo., but she doesn't really want to work that much longer.

Are we reading the same posts from VV? Her MIL wants to retire. VV isn't encouraging her MIL to retire; or at least that's not obvious from any posts.

What I am reading is that VV wants MIL to provide childcare, which she can only do if she is retired by the time the baby is born.  So, yes, VV wants her to retire, and then start working as a daycare provider for her.

I too am mystified by how VV envisions this working out.  I know people with this arrangement part time, a couple days a week.  Most people over 60 just don't have the stamina to provide full time childcare to a small child.  Even part time care is a stretch.  And if her MIL is already struggling physically with work, how is she going to manage full time childcare?  For a newborn maybe, they do nap a lot, but once the child is toddler age she won't be able to keep up.
+1.  Babies...fine sometimes.  Toddlers?  Nope.  I had a recent convo with my stepfather about how horrible it was for my mother when my brother stopped using her for childcare.  He said "I know why he did it, but it really messed her up."  Which, I don't remember the whole story, but I know my mother wasn't in the best of health AND she'd started smoking again at some point and drinking too.   I don't exactly remember when that all happened, but that's prob the reason.

Quote
But, although she was 100% healthy, she wasn't interested in continuing to work. She felt she deserved to not work. She felt that she would be fine in an extreme frugal living situation, underestimating her expenses just like I see your MIL doing. So she made her decision.

This is where it gets tricky, for me.  Just thinking out loud here.  I totally understand the desire to not work.  Isn't that what it's all about here, in some respects?  Many of my siblings & relatives are already retired and retired early - some as early as 55 (with pension).  Now, none of them are in poverty and they are mostly decent with money.  She feels like she deserves to not work anymore.  In some ways, I sort of agree - at what point do you get to hang it up and LIVE?  I've got relatives who work in manual labor jobs, and whenever politicians talk about changing retirement age to 70 and making people work longer, I think:
1. These guys obviously don't know people who are physically wrecked by then.
2. They guys probably haven't encountered folks in more intellectual jobs who start losing their abilities in their 60s.  (Some people are sharp until 90, some, not so much.)

I do think that at some point, people have earned the right to not work anymore, especially if you are physically incapable.  I don't want to see anyone who is unable to work to be homeless or starving.  So where do you draw the line?  Well, you are able to work, so you should just work until 70.  Or 80.  Or whatever.  Because you can.

Sliding scale and I guess I can see both points. Just rambling.

(Can she rent out rooms?)

DeniseNJ

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #52 on: November 05, 2019, 11:43:52 AM »
She could move.  She could live in a country with a much lower cost of living.  Costa Rica comes to mind.  Seriously.  If you only have so much money and it's not enough to live on you should live somewhere else.  If your family doesn't want you that far away then they need to pony up.

If I was her I would sell the house and move somewhere cheap.  You could move in with her or have her move in with you but if you aren't willing to make this happen for her (and you might not be for very good reasons) then she should move.

Dee18

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #53 on: November 05, 2019, 11:59:28 AM »
She needs to keep working.  She clearly cannot live on what she would get from Social Security. She needs health insurance.  And if she is having trouble with her current job, she is probably not going to have the energy to manage a two year old in a couple years.  When she does retire, hopefully at her full retirement age or later, selling the house might be wise. Keeping up a house without any DIY is costly.  Be sure she, and you, do not underestimate how many years of retirement she may have.  My maternal grandmother died in her 50s and my maternal grandfather in his 60s so my mother did not expect to live to an old age.  She’s 96, still living on her own, fortunately with enough money to hire people to do things she can no longer do, such as lawn care and laundry in a basement laundry room.

Peach

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #54 on: November 05, 2019, 12:53:12 PM »
I know you said you weren't sure you would want to do this, but if you build on a small apartment to your home for your MIL it might work financially.  She could rent out her home for extra income while your child is small and later move back into her own home.  Since you would be paying all of her temporary housing costs in your home, her expenses should be really low.  Maybe she could get a part-time job a couple of days a week when not watching your baby. Having a small salary from you plus the rental income from her home plus any part-time job income should be enough to allow her to stop full-time work. This should also keep her from having to immediately collect social security but instead allow it grow to a more reasonable amount at FRA.  I'm assuming that your MIL is not a widow?  If so, she could get social security widow benefits and save her own to grow to age 70.

Although not the best solution, it is an option.  There would be some lack of privacy, but the upside is that you would have your babysitter in the same building.  Honestly, as others have said, your MIL's best option is to keep working full-time because of the money and healthcare.  Any chance of her finding another full-time job that she might like better?  Somebody will probably have to do something they don't want to do, either your MIL continuing to work full-time or you giving up some privacy to house her.  Any way you look at it, her retirement is going to be tight.   


Daisyedwards800

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #55 on: November 05, 2019, 01:16:05 PM »
My widowed mother took my dad's SS benefit until she reached 70 then took her own.  This is a good idea from prior poster if it's possible.

Villanelle

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #56 on: November 05, 2019, 02:23:07 PM »
My mother-in-law wants to retire. She's worked all of her life, but she hasn't earned a lot and doesn't have much in savings. She is 63 now and if she retires today, she would get $1300 per month from SS in income, and that's it. If she waited until 67, she would get $1700/mo., but she doesn't really want to work that much longer.

Are we reading the same posts from VV? Her MIL wants to retire. VV isn't encouraging her MIL to retire; or at least that's not obvious from any posts.

She says that, but she also makes it pretty clear that the MIL can't retire unless VV's family significantly supplements her.  I think that's why the general consensus has been, "tell her she can't afford to retire". 

The fact that the OP says she wants to use MIL for childcare and really wants to avoid daycare does bring up the question, however, of how much this is truly the MIL wanting desperately to retire because her old bones just can't bear the work, and how much of it is the OP wishing the MIL could retire in part because MIL wants to, but also because the timing would work out well for OP's immediate family if MIL's services as a caregive became available.

But regardless of the driving forces and how they are intertwined, the answer is the same.  MIL can't afford to retire.  OP can either significantly supplement that--and in doing so create a situation where she's probably on the hook for even more expected support later when the need for paid childcare decreases or disappears, but the MIL's finances stay more or less the same.  Or she can help MIL budget and save and find available assistance, and make it clear they her family is not in a position to do anything more than pay (fair market, I'd hope, given the situation) short-term for some childcare.  So MIL needs to stay in the paid workforce. 

RetiredAt63

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #57 on: November 05, 2019, 03:15:12 PM »
A few random thoughts.

This is VV's MIL.  Where is VV's husband in all this?  This should be his discussion with his mother.

VV's MIL is not ready to retire, because she has no idea where her money goes (or if she does, she isn't willing to say, and therefore probably not willing to change).  Retirement needs a spending plan even more than working life does.

VV needs to think about alternate child care.  All the women my age that I know have told their children they will NOT, repeat NOT be babysitters.  We did our stint with our kids, and we are older now, no way we are looking after babies and toddlers except for fun grandchild visits on our terms.

I also know women who for cultural reasons in their husbands' families, let their MIL do the child care.  They were not always particularly happy about it, MIL's idea of child care may not match Mom's.

Daycare does not have to suck, and the only price to pay is money, not messed-up family relationships.


Isn't there the concept floating around the forums that we don't put more thought into other peoples' money problems than they do?


@VioletVixen there is lots of discussion going on based on speculation here, if you want good feedback you need to provide more facts.  Ideally you will come back and tell us you are letting your adult MIL make her own decisions that she will have to live with.

VioletVixen

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2019, 10:40:03 PM »
Wow - read your replies and I think you are out of touch.  You'd be saving $1200-2000 a month on daycare, and paying your MIL what exactly?  If she is going to quit her job, she will permanently receive less per month in SS.  You seem to see her as free labor.  I don't like it.  ETA: You would be saving money on someone who desperately needs more money to live in her home.

I certainly do not see her as free labor. I may seem out of touch because I am inexperienced with all of this, which is precisely why I came here to ask questions and to LEARN. I don't appreciate the judgment and assumptions being made for the honest questions I am asking. Like I said, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't post. And what do you mean saving $1200-2000 a month? The going rate in my area, which I just looked up, is around $800/mo for a newborn in a certified center. I do not live in a big city. I was going to pay her what she would make in SS if she drew early, around $1200. Which, since everyone is pointing out that it's not possible to do WFM and babysit, would be considered her full time job. I don't know how that would affect what she would eventually be able to take out of SS, but wouldn't that be seen in the eyes of the government as full time work? As long as it wasn't paid under the table? In which case she'd be taxed on it and I'd have to pay more to sustain her, which wouldn't make sense for me so I may as well send the kid to daycare and encourage her to keep working.

My choice would probably be different from many others here. I would open my home to my aging parent or in-law if that was what they wanted. It would be safer for them and they wouldn't be destitute in their later years. They could sell their house, pay me rent if that made them feel better (or not - they never charged me rent when I lived with them) and take social security whenever - or work part time - or not. I continue to hope that they will remain independent as long as possible, but I assume there is a decent chance I will need to subsidize them at some point (and have the buffer to do so if needed).

I probably would end up doing the same if it came to that. We have a good relationship and I would never want to see her live in poverty, but I also don't want to enable it. I appreciate that you have a heart. <3

When I read VV's posts, I would be more willing to bet that it is the MIL who came up with the idea to quit her job and babysit instead and not VV, who probably thinks it's a great idea because it sounds better than daycare.
I am guessing it is her first kid so she probably doesn't have a realistic idea of what full time care for an infant and then toddler will look like so she also can't realistically assess how capable MIL is to perform it and how much it should be paid. 

It would actually be MIL's wish to retire and watch the child when she finds out, so I am trying to prepare myself for that discussion. I thought it would be a convenient arrangement before everyone made it clear that babysitting a newborn is not easy work. This IS my first kid, no she is not physically disabled or low on stamina, but I see now that she can't do both a WFH job and watch the kid at the same time. Yes, I do not have a realistic idea of any of this because I have never done it. Again, here to learn. Sorry for what must be stupid questions. :/

A few random thoughts.

This is VV's MIL.  Where is VV's husband in all this?  This should be his discussion with his mother.

VV's MIL is not ready to retire, because she has no idea where her money goes (or if she does, she isn't willing to say, and therefore probably not willing to change).  Retirement needs a spending plan even more than working life does.

VV needs to think about alternate child care.  All the women my age that I know have told their children they will NOT, repeat NOT be babysitters.  We did our stint with our kids, and we are older now, no way we are looking after babies and toddlers except for fun grandchild visits on our terms.

I also know women who for cultural reasons in their husbands' families, let their MIL do the child care.  They were not always particularly happy about it, MIL's idea of child care may not match Mom's.

Daycare does not have to suck, and the only price to pay is money, not messed-up family relationships.


Isn't there the concept floating around the forums that we don't put more thought into other peoples' money problems than they do?


@VioletVixen there is lots of discussion going on based on speculation here, if you want good feedback you need to provide more facts.  Ideally you will come back and tell us you are letting your adult MIL make her own decisions that she will have to live with.


My husband is very much involved with this discussion, thanks for asking.

As for everyone else, I am overwhelmed with the responses. Thank you for giving me so much to think about.

cincystache

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #59 on: November 07, 2019, 01:39:16 AM »
My MIL is in a similar situation, living off alimony and doesn't have a job. Once alimony stops she will be in a tough spot and doesn't even see it coming. We will be glad to help her if necessary but we'd like to optimize ahead of time.

Best advice that has already been said is to have her keep working and delay social security. That 1,700 at 67 could turn into 2,100 at age 70. The other thing often overlooked is that SS benefits grow with inflation so those number will get bigger with time.

slappy

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #60 on: November 07, 2019, 06:55:03 AM »
Wow - read your replies and I think you are out of touch.  You'd be saving $1200-2000 a month on daycare, and paying your MIL what exactly?  If she is going to quit her job, she will permanently receive less per month in SS.  You seem to see her as free labor.  I don't like it.  ETA: You would be saving money on someone who desperately needs more money to live in her home.

I certainly do not see her as free labor. I may seem out of touch because I am inexperienced with all of this, which is precisely why I came here to ask questions and to LEARN. I don't appreciate the judgment and assumptions being made for the honest questions I am asking. Like I said, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't post. And what do you mean saving $1200-2000 a month? The going rate in my area, which I just looked up, is around $800/mo for a newborn in a certified center. I do not live in a big city. I was going to pay her what she would make in SS if she drew early, around $1200. Which, since everyone is pointing out that it's not possible to do WFM and babysit, would be considered her full time job. I don't know how that would affect what she would eventually be able to take out of SS, but wouldn't that be seen in the eyes of the government as full time work? As long as it wasn't paid under the table? In which case she'd be taxed on it and I'd have to pay more to sustain her, which wouldn't make sense for me so I may as well send the kid to daycare and encourage her to keep working.

My choice would probably be different from many others here. I would open my home to my aging parent or in-law if that was what they wanted. It would be safer for them and they wouldn't be destitute in their later years. They could sell their house, pay me rent if that made them feel better (or not - they never charged me rent when I lived with them) and take social security whenever - or work part time - or not. I continue to hope that they will remain independent as long as possible, but I assume there is a decent chance I will need to subsidize them at some point (and have the buffer to do so if needed).

I probably would end up doing the same if it came to that. We have a good relationship and I would never want to see her live in poverty, but I also don't want to enable it. I appreciate that you have a heart. <3

When I read VV's posts, I would be more willing to bet that it is the MIL who came up with the idea to quit her job and babysit instead and not VV, who probably thinks it's a great idea because it sounds better than daycare.
I am guessing it is her first kid so she probably doesn't have a realistic idea of what full time care for an infant and then toddler will look like so she also can't realistically assess how capable MIL is to perform it and how much it should be paid. 

It would actually be MIL's wish to retire and watch the child when she finds out, so I am trying to prepare myself for that discussion. I thought it would be a convenient arrangement before everyone made it clear that babysitting a newborn is not easy work. This IS my first kid, no she is not physically disabled or low on stamina, but I see now that she can't do both a WFH job and watch the kid at the same time. Yes, I do not have a realistic idea of any of this because I have never done it. Again, here to learn. Sorry for what must be stupid questions. :/

A few random thoughts.

This is VV's MIL.  Where is VV's husband in all this?  This should be his discussion with his mother.

VV's MIL is not ready to retire, because she has no idea where her money goes (or if she does, she isn't willing to say, and therefore probably not willing to change).  Retirement needs a spending plan even more than working life does.

VV needs to think about alternate child care.  All the women my age that I know have told their children they will NOT, repeat NOT be babysitters.  We did our stint with our kids, and we are older now, no way we are looking after babies and toddlers except for fun grandchild visits on our terms.

I also know women who for cultural reasons in their husbands' families, let their MIL do the child care.  They were not always particularly happy about it, MIL's idea of child care may not match Mom's.

Daycare does not have to suck, and the only price to pay is money, not messed-up family relationships.


Isn't there the concept floating around the forums that we don't put more thought into other peoples' money problems than they do?


@VioletVixen there is lots of discussion going on based on speculation here, if you want good feedback you need to provide more facts.  Ideally you will come back and tell us you are letting your adult MIL make her own decisions that she will have to live with.


My husband is very much involved with this discussion, thanks for asking.

As for everyone else, I am overwhelmed with the responses. Thank you for giving me so much to think about.

A couple things:

1) Telling us to be nice or say nothing is not going to help you or your MIL. What you need is real, honest answers. Please don't limit participation.

2) Could you and your husband have your mom meet with a financial planner? That way the bad news comes from a third party?

3) If your MIL is physically capable, having her as a full time care giver could potentially work. It doesn't sound like it's ideal in this situation though, for multiple reasons. Personally it's something I would not consider, but each situation different.  I also don't have any cultural considerations that would make it more appealing/traditional to have MIL watch the kids. My own MIL watches my nieces, although I personally don't feel she is physically/mentally able to do so. My nieces are a bit older, so I guess my SIL is comfortable with what I consider to be a risk. To each their own.

4) Other posters have mentioned this, but you need to consider what extent you are willing to support your MIL for the rest of her life. You could have her watch the baby now, and it might be ok. But as she gets older, or you have more kids, or whatever, it might not work out, and then what? Will you have to find other arrangements and how much will that affect your relationship with MIL?

I feel like I have a ton to say because my the situation with my MIL, but I'm not sure any of it is particularly helpful or just me venting. Haha. Being a first time is so hard and I remember it so vividly. 

Daisyedwards800

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #61 on: November 07, 2019, 08:07:55 AM »
An expert can speak to this.  If she's full time you might be also on the hook for benefits.  If she stops working early, it will permanently reduce her SS benefits if her daycare job does not qualify for SS wages, because I assume she makes the most she ever has and would be losing 4 years of working.

Omy

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #62 on: November 07, 2019, 10:00:43 AM »

She says that, but she also makes it pretty clear that the MIL can't retire unless VV's family significantly supplements her.  I think that's why the general consensus has been, "tell her she can't afford to retire". 

The fact that the OP says she wants to use MIL for childcare and really wants to avoid daycare does bring up the question, however, of how much this is truly the MIL wanting desperately to retire because her old bones just can't bear the work, and how much of it is the OP wishing the MIL could retire in part because MIL wants to, but also because the timing would work out well for OP's immediate family if MIL's services as a caregive became available.

But regardless of the driving forces and how they are intertwined, the answer is the same.  MIL can't afford to retire.  OP can either significantly supplement that--and in doing so create a situation where she's probably on the hook for even more expected support later when the need for paid childcare decreases or disappears, but the MIL's finances stay more or less the same.  Or she can help MIL budget and save and find available assistance, and make it clear they her family is not in a position to do anything more than pay (fair market, I'd hope, given the situation) short-term for some childcare.  So MIL needs to stay in the paid workforce.

Is the general consensus really "tell her she can't afford to retire/she needs to stay in the paid workforce?"

If my parent or in-law approached me with this, I would want to explore possibilities (as OP is doing here) and one possibility is that I would financially subsidize them in some way - possibly for many years. In my case, they happen to be responsible, independent adults who I would be inclined to help because I know how hard it would be for them to even bring up the subject. My answer would likely be different if all of their savings had gone to drugs, alcohol, or crazy frivolous spending.

I bought a clown house a decade ago so I'd have the space for family members who might need it. I made sure I had buffer in the FIRE budget to help family out financially, if needed. There is no way I could tell my parent or in-law (who sacrificed their life to give us the advantages we have and who has been in the workforce for 40+ years to do so) that they had to keep working.

former player

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #63 on: November 07, 2019, 10:32:29 AM »
If her current earnings are $43k a year MIL has not been living high on the hog - for a fairly standard consumer it would be easy to spend it all.  If she couldn't work, of course one would help. But MIL is not helpless, has made her own choices and spent her own money, and full retirement now appears to be a want not a need.  If she stops earning now she will be living at poverty level.  If she carries on earning for a few years and puts more into saving then her retirement will still be modest but a little more comfortable.

Of course, OP could be swimming in money, which would make a difference, but I'm not getting that impression and they are just getting into the baby years and probably have little idea how much hard work and expense is to come, even if all goes well.

Captain FIRE

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #64 on: November 07, 2019, 10:39:35 AM »
There is no way I could tell my parent or in-law (who sacrificed their life to give us the advantages we have and who has been in the workforce for 40+ years to do so) that they had to keep working.

Even when they are retiring early, before full retirement age?

My answer would likely be different if all of their savings had gone to drugs, alcohol, or crazy frivolous spending.

We don't know yet if there has been crazy frivolous spending.  What we know is that the MIL has spent almost every dime she's earned throughout her life, and now optimistically thinks she can cut back the budget to the bare bones.  What I characterize as frivolous spending on a $43k budget is different than frivolous spending on a $100k or $250k budget.  And yes, if there's not retirement savings in the $43k budget by age 50+ for a presumably single woman with no dependents, there likely some frivolous spending going on unless there were unusual circumstances such as significant medical emergencies.  I saved some money for retirement even at 22 on a 28K budget - while paying off student loans.

I would not be keen to take on an indefinite liability (my grandmother is 94, so that's possibly at least 30+ years) of funding a relative's living expenses.  I also would not be able to deal with living with most of my relatives even though I enjoy visiting them.  This could mean funding almost $30k of float a year ($43-15.6k) for a relative who *chose* to retire early.  NOW she has a few options.  In a few years, those options will start to narrow.


wenchsenior

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #66 on: November 07, 2019, 11:49:10 AM »
There is no way I could tell my parent or in-law (who sacrificed their life to give us the advantages we have and who has been in the workforce for 40+ years to do so) that they had to keep working.

Even when they are retiring early, before full retirement age?

My answer would likely be different if all of their savings had gone to drugs, alcohol, or crazy frivolous spending.

We don't know yet if there has been crazy frivolous spending.  What we know is that the MIL has spent almost every dime she's earned throughout her life, and now optimistically thinks she can cut back the budget to the bare bones.  What I characterize as frivolous spending on a $43k budget is different than frivolous spending on a $100k or $250k budget.  And yes, if there's not retirement savings in the $43k budget by age 50+ for a presumably single woman with no dependents, there likely some frivolous spending going on unless there were unusual circumstances such as significant medical emergencies.  I saved some money for retirement even at 22 on a 28K budget - while paying off student loans.

I would not be keen to take on an indefinite liability (my grandmother is 94, so that's possibly at least 30+ years) of funding a relative's living expenses.  I also would not be able to deal with living with most of my relatives even though I enjoy visiting them.  This could mean funding almost $30k of float a year ($43-15.6k) for a relative who *chose* to retire early.  NOW she has a few options.  In a few years, those options will start to narrow.

Agree.  I've been through this scenario with both my mother and my mother in law.  Both worked, at least on and off (keep in mind that up until the 1980s, it wasn't assumed married women WOULD work, and divorces left many women of the silent and early boomer generations in very difficult financial straits).  Both made consistently less than optimal financial decisions throughout their lives as well. Both reached their 60s as low-earning, low-skilled workers, renting, with no assets other than a few bits of furniture.  Both faced poverty as old women, with little hope to change their situations. 

One of these women lived half way across the country and wouldn't consider moving, wouldn't give up pets to get on assisted living housing waiting lists, was very stubborn, and was inclined to give away any money given to her to her constantly-in-trouble other kids (drugs/jail/underemployed).  She now lives in poverty (for a time, in a tent) and is too poor of health to work.  That's how it is, and we do not help except to occasionally throw a grand at her during emergencies (her phone being shut off for lack of payment, stranded somewhere b/c her car broke down, etc.)  Living with her would NOT be doable (massive personality differences, and we do not have remotely large enough a house).  The alternative would be trying to support someone that we know is irresponsible with money via a steady stream of cash, never knowing where the hell it being pissed away to.
She's going to live poor until she dies in poverty. It sucks, but at this point, there's not much we can reasonably do without upending our entire lives.

The other mother was more agreeable and open about her finances, and agreed to move when we were able to purchase a modest second home for her to live in.  Originally, our plan was to have her get a job and postpone taking SS as long as feasibly possible, but it was 2008, so....she was never hired (she had significant physical disabilities by that time also).  So she took SS a year or so after she became eligible (reduced check) and now she lives on 900$/month after the medicare premiums are taken out.  We provide housing, car, and phone, and pay most of her utilities.  That 900$ allows her to pay for food, entertainment, gas, typical medical copays, the occasional utility bill, and small stochastic expenses such as plumbing repairs etc.  It is expensive to support another person, and it caused huge stress to us in the first 3 or 4 years we did it (we initially tried having her actually live with us b/c we get along ok, but it caused huge strain on our marriage).  But this did stabilize her longer term situation. 

To the OP, I've obviously been where you are, and we came to two different conclusions about how to handle it with two different people. Be aware that once you start helping support someone, it's very difficult to find an off ramp.  We have turned down opportunities to move to a couple of more desirable cities over the years b/c we simply couldn't afford to support her there.  In the early years, support cost about 10K/year, but in the past 10 years it has ratcheted down to about half that.  But that's still going to end up costing us hundreds of thousands in the long run, assuming she lives into her late 80s.

So...you need to think very hard about what you are actually capable of doing (emotionally/financially) and what you are WILLING to do, and consider carefully the long term implications of what you choose.  The decision will affect you, your partnership (if any), and your relationships with other family members.  Don't make a mistake with a 'short term fix' that will end up sticking with you for possibly decades.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 11:51:55 AM by wenchsenior »

DaMa

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #67 on: November 07, 2019, 12:41:17 PM »
@VioletVixen, I posted a question about a year ago, and the answers were frequently harsh and judgmental.  Or at least they read that way to me.  Don't take it personally.  We don't know you, and we don't know all the details.  We only know what you wrote, and we all try to read between the lines.  Use what applies to you and appreciate even the harsh answers, because they may apply to someone else in a similar situation reading this thread.  We all mean well.

The last few years I worked I was very motivated by my growing stash.  Perhaps if you show your MIL how much more she would have in 3 years it might help her keep going, even just one more year.  Plus the higher SS payment for each delayed year.

Villanelle

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #68 on: November 07, 2019, 12:52:23 PM »

She says that, but she also makes it pretty clear that the MIL can't retire unless VV's family significantly supplements her.  I think that's why the general consensus has been, "tell her she can't afford to retire". 

The fact that the OP says she wants to use MIL for childcare and really wants to avoid daycare does bring up the question, however, of how much this is truly the MIL wanting desperately to retire because her old bones just can't bear the work, and how much of it is the OP wishing the MIL could retire in part because MIL wants to, but also because the timing would work out well for OP's immediate family if MIL's services as a caregive became available.

But regardless of the driving forces and how they are intertwined, the answer is the same.  MIL can't afford to retire.  OP can either significantly supplement that--and in doing so create a situation where she's probably on the hook for even more expected support later when the need for paid childcare decreases or disappears, but the MIL's finances stay more or less the same.  Or she can help MIL budget and save and find available assistance, and make it clear they her family is not in a position to do anything more than pay (fair market, I'd hope, given the situation) short-term for some childcare.  So MIL needs to stay in the paid workforce.

Is the general consensus really "tell her she can't afford to retire/she needs to stay in the paid workforce?"

If my parent or in-law approached me with this, I would want to explore possibilities (as OP is doing here) and one possibility is that I would financially subsidize them in some way - possibly for many years. In my case, they happen to be responsible, independent adults who I would be inclined to help because I know how hard it would be for them to even bring up the subject. My answer would likely be different if all of their savings had gone to drugs, alcohol, or crazy frivolous spending.

I bought a clown house a decade ago so I'd have the space for family members who might need it. I made sure I had buffer in the FIRE budget to help family out financially, if needed. There is no way I could tell my parent or in-law (who sacrificed their life to give us the advantages we have and who has been in the workforce for 40+ years to do so) that they had to keep working.

OP doesn't seem especially excited about the prospect of subsidizing MIL.  And if MIL quits now, there is every reason to believe that not only will she need help for the rest of her life, but the amount required will likely increase over time. 

On top of that, MIL is able-bodied, as far as I can tell. There was some mention early on that suggested she might not be, but it's been clarified that she is well and could care for a newborn full time, in which case she can sit at a desk all day long.  There's no reason she should stop working, other than that she wants to.  As does pretty much every person on this board, most of whom still get up and go to work every day.  'I don't wanna" is not a justification for much. 

If this was my MIL, if she was physically unable to work, I'd either take her in or, more likely pay to rent her a studio apartment.  But she'd have to be willing to make drastic budget cuts (from spending $40k/yr) for me to be willing to do that.  Otherwise, it would be throwing good money after bad.  If she showed a willingness to get her financial house in order and reasonable cuts combined with utilizing social programs wasn't enough, I would absolutely support her with money, in addition to practical help. 

If she's not willing to do those things, there'd be no point as it's a matter of running out of money soon, or running out of money a bit later, having sucked up a lot of my savings on the way. 

That's why the advice has also been to figure out where her money has been going, and to look at her housing situation to see if it would make sense to get the money out of her current home and then either rent or buy something much smaller.  If the MIL isn't willing to do those things, then clearly she isn't actually interested in solving the problem.  And as a general rule, of someone isn't willing to spend their own money on a solution, they don't get to then spend mine. 

Maybe there's a reason that a woman with a suppose $1200/mo budget somehow has no savings even though she made $43k/yr.  And maybe once that reason is determined, there's a way to make this work.  But unless and until that happens, there's really no point in adding outside money or resources to the scenario.

I had a dear friend whose MIL was frequently asking for money.  She couldn't even afford groceries and was hungry!  Please, please!  And then she'd spend a thousand dollars in one month on QVC, or buy a new sofa set for herself.  But her child could never say no when his mom said she was hungry or couldn't pay the electric bill. So nothing changed, and her finances never improved (while my friend's finances declined), but she did have a lovely couch and some precious figurines! 

dodojojo

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #69 on: November 07, 2019, 12:54:16 PM »
So she took SS a year or so after she became eligible (reduced check) and now she lives on 900$/month after the medicare premiums are taken out.  We provide housing, car, and phone, and pay most of her utilities.  That 900$ allows her to pay for food, entertainment, gas, typical medical copays, the occasional utility bill, and small stochastic expenses such as plumbing repairs etc.  It is expensive to support another person, and it caused huge stress to us in the first 3 or 4 years we did it (we initially tried having her actually live with us b/c we get along ok, but it caused huge strain on our marriage).  But this did stabilize her longer term situation. 

May I ask what state you live in?

My mom retired on similar SS monthly payment and it made her eligible for HUD low income senior housing.  She's in CA. We lucked out as a building had an open application period--I called other buildings in the city/nearby cities and all of them had waiting lists many, many years long, like 8-10.  Not only did we luck into an open application period but my mom was actually selected only a few months later.  Her building is for very low income seniors and only charges 30% of income for rent.  Which was a godsend to my mom, whose previous apartment's rent was about to increase beyond her monthly income.  I was readying my budget to help her out.  Her building even allows pets.

Metalcat

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #70 on: November 07, 2019, 03:05:16 PM »

She says that, but she also makes it pretty clear that the MIL can't retire unless VV's family significantly supplements her.  I think that's why the general consensus has been, "tell her she can't afford to retire". 

The fact that the OP says she wants to use MIL for childcare and really wants to avoid daycare does bring up the question, however, of how much this is truly the MIL wanting desperately to retire because her old bones just can't bear the work, and how much of it is the OP wishing the MIL could retire in part because MIL wants to, but also because the timing would work out well for OP's immediate family if MIL's services as a caregive became available.

But regardless of the driving forces and how they are intertwined, the answer is the same.  MIL can't afford to retire.  OP can either significantly supplement that--and in doing so create a situation where she's probably on the hook for even more expected support later when the need for paid childcare decreases or disappears, but the MIL's finances stay more or less the same.  Or she can help MIL budget and save and find available assistance, and make it clear they her family is not in a position to do anything more than pay (fair market, I'd hope, given the situation) short-term for some childcare.  So MIL needs to stay in the paid workforce.

Is the general consensus really "tell her she can't afford to retire/she needs to stay in the paid workforce?"

If my parent or in-law approached me with this, I would want to explore possibilities (as OP is doing here) and one possibility is that I would financially subsidize them in some way - possibly for many years. In my case, they happen to be responsible, independent adults who I would be inclined to help because I know how hard it would be for them to even bring up the subject. My answer would likely be different if all of their savings had gone to drugs, alcohol, or crazy frivolous spending.

I bought a clown house a decade ago so I'd have the space for family members who might need it. I made sure I had buffer in the FIRE budget to help family out financially, if needed. There is no way I could tell my parent or in-law (who sacrificed their life to give us the advantages we have and who has been in the workforce for 40+ years to do so) that they had to keep working.

And that's good that *you* know *your* willingness to help and *your* boundaries in advance of having to deal with anything like this.

Regardless of how harsh or heartless some replies seem to be, they're actually a really good counter balance to the instinctive "oh, we'll do what it takes response", because that can end up a nightmare.

VV doesn't have to take anyone's recommendations here, but absolutely should absorb these responses as a warning sign of how much of a challenge they might be up against.



Zamboni

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #71 on: November 07, 2019, 05:21:05 PM »
$800 a month would be below minimum wages for full time child care. The centers that charge $800/month have several infants per adult. $1200 a month would be extremely close or even slightly below minimum wage. I think you should pay her at least $10 an hour if you go that route.

teen persuasion

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #72 on: November 07, 2019, 07:30:40 PM »
$800 a month would be below minimum wages for full time child care. The centers that charge $800/month have several infants per adult. $1200 a month would be extremely close or even slightly below minimum wage. I think you should pay her at least $10 an hour if you go that route.

At least!  Minimum wage is higher than $10/hr in some states.  It will be just shy of $12/hr in my region (and $15 in other parts of the state) in the new year.

BTDretire

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #73 on: November 08, 2019, 08:28:18 AM »
She can't retire.

She can show herself/you that she can live on $1300 a month.
With her $43k which after taxes is $40k, that she can put $7k
into an IRA and $17,400 into a savings account. If she then worked
until FRA, she should have roughly $100,000.
 Then maybe with a reverse mortgage thrown in, she might
be able bump her spending, but not much.
 The other option is spend down to minimum of assets and let the taxpayers
support her. Which may not be a bad plan, no matter how much I dislike it.

My bet would be, she can't live on $1,300 a month.
Although my mother did for about 12 years, but she was never
a big spender.

simonsez

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #74 on: November 08, 2019, 10:16:56 AM »
And what do you mean saving $1200-2000 a month? The going rate in my area, which I just looked up, is around $800/mo for a newborn in a certified center. I do not live in a big city. I was going to pay her what she would make in SS if she drew early, around $1200. Which, since everyone is pointing out that it's not possible to do WFM and babysit, would be considered her full time job. I don't know how that would affect what she would eventually be able to take out of SS, but wouldn't that be seen in the eyes of the government as full time work? As long as it wasn't paid under the table? In which case she'd be taxed on it and I'd have to pay more to sustain her, which wouldn't make sense for me so I may as well send the kid to daycare and encourage her to keep working.
You're essentially considering a full-time nanny but are pricing infant childcare centers (where they have multiple kiddos and can charge less per kid).  What would you pay a full-time nanny in your area?  As others have said, this is likely to be at LEAST $10/hr or $400/wk or $1600/mo.  Two grand a month is not uncommon at all.  What you would pay is ultimately your own business but pricing out nannies is the better comp.

What this comparison number ends up being in relation to the SS monthly amount is largely irrelevant.  It could be lower or higher or the same depending on the profession.  That said, I don't think you will find many full-time professions regardless of skill and experience that come in lower than $1200/mo.

Also, if you do end up employing her and you pay "over-the-table" wages (which would absolutely count toward her HI-35 and what she would eventually draw from SS) - you'll have to pay the employer share of FICA among other things and she will be responsible for claiming it and having the proper withholding as well.  See IRS Publication 926 for more details about employing household help.

Good luck OP.  This is hard.

partgypsy

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #75 on: November 08, 2019, 01:52:16 PM »
Just from my experiences with my parents. My mother worked for the state, and so got NOTHING in social security. She actually retired twice, cashing out her pension and spending it, returning to work part time for a few more years, repeat. She was able to get 550/month through my father's social security. She sold her house so does have some savings but not enough to last past 3? years? So, my brother is giving her a place to live for now. 

2nd story, my father. My father waited and got social security where he collects 1400/month. His rent alone is 850/month, not including any of his other bills. He continues to work 2 days a week. He is now 87 years old. There was a period of time he lived with his son (my brother) but moved out when he got married, and of course would not move in with the current situation.

So in my family it was, a) have them move in, or b) continue working until physically incapable/dies. My mother also searched for work from home situations. Perhaps others would have better luck but she didn't have any luck in making  money from home (and many were actually sales or borderline scam situations). 

One thing you do need to find out: can she take social security through her husband? If she had a husband for over 10 years who has either taken soc sec or is deceased, I believe she can take under his name, and then switch to under her name after a number of years when her amount will be higher. If husband or ex husband is dead, she still qualifies for survivor benefits.  https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/divspouse.html

The other thing if you do want to help and she is willing, is to find out how much she is actually spending. She needs to track what she is spending for a few months, or get records of her bank statements to see what is going on. I can almost bet she is spending more than 1200 a month.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 02:06:43 PM by partgypsy »

Roadrunner53

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #76 on: November 09, 2019, 05:09:14 AM »
See what your MIL's current company offers for part time workers. Some companies will allow the employee to reduce hours and still keep health insurance and benefits. For instance at Walmart an employee can work 34-40 hours and be considered 'full time' and get health benefits. I believe an employee can drop down to as little as 30 hours and still get health insurance but other benefits may be reduced down or taken away. Every company is different and some may not offer any bennies unless you are full time.

Do you have senior living (apartments) in your area?  In my town we have some senior living apartments where rent is based on income. You could look into that. Most of these places have a waiting list and if you can find one that is acceptable, get your MIL on the list. Even if the time comes and she decides against it, she can refuse later on. She should consider selling her house while on the wait list. Maybe she could move into your house while waiting for an apartment to become available. Once the house sells, she could convert some of the sale of the house into an annuity.

Between SS, the annuity and reduced cost senior housing, she might be able to live independently. Senior centers also offer transportation to doctor appointments and shopping. As another poster said, if she had a legal spouse, she should check to see if she can get SS on the work record of the spouse and let her SS build up for several more years then switch over to hers. Depending on her income she might be eligible for food stamps, I guess they call it SNAP these days. There are also food banks. I have also read that some organizations help pay for utilities depending on income.

Personally, if it were me, I would be happier to be in my own little place. Something to call my own and be independent as long as I could. Even if I had to depend on SNAP and other services.

Your first step might be to visit your local Senior Center. They have social workers who can advise on things you may have never considered.

So...
You need to find out:
Where MIL's money is being spent
Find out, maybe from a doctor, her health and ability to work
If she can work longer, figure out what the time frame is, 1 year, 2 years, 3 years
If she continues working, encourage her to save by payroll savings into a 401K or Credit union or IRA
Get her to think about selling her house
Look into an annuity so if she sells her house she can have a steady stream of income from the annuity
Talk to a social worker at your local senior center for advice
Check out the cost of health insurance if she retires before age 65.
Look into senior housing, get on a waiting list
Look into benefits available for senior citizens

These are just things on the top of my mind. It might be a good thing if you put together a 3 ring binder/notebook, with tabs, for the individual issues to investigate. You have received a lot of good advice on this thread from all the posters.

Good luck and keep us posted.


iris lily

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #77 on: November 09, 2019, 06:32:38 AM »
I would just like to offer a real life  data point and I don’t intend it to be in conflict with the majority of the advice on this thread.

Our weekend house cost $79,000. All utilities (not cable or wifi) average less than $200 a month. Taxes are about $100 a month.  This house has new windows and a new furnace and a recent roof. My point is that a simple old house can be eminently livable at $300 a month in flyover country.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 07:12:56 AM by iris lily »

wenchsenior

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #78 on: November 09, 2019, 08:35:16 AM »
I would just like to offer a real life  data point and I don’t intend it to be in conflict with the majority of the advice on this thread.

Our weekend house cost $79,000. All utilities (not cable or wifi) average less than $200 a month. Taxes are about $100 a month.  This house has new windows and a new furnace and a recent roof. My point is that a simple old house can be eminently livable at $300 a month in flyover country.

Yes, this is in line with the house we bought to provide a place for one of our mothers.  It's very dependent on city, though.

lollylegs

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2019, 12:01:13 PM »
Does your community have any free financial advice services? I'm in Australia & we have Lifeline financial counselling which is free. I sent my mum there and they were able to do budgets, renegotiate with creditors & help her when she had to claim bankruptcy. I also use the service now to refer women to who are in similar position to your mum. It sounds like she needs someone to help her really go through her finances, budgeting & spending and often it is received better when its not family so I would look around for a service that can help her sort through her options objectively.


TomTX

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #80 on: November 09, 2019, 04:34:25 PM »
The math doesn’t add up, someone who makes 43k and only spends $1200 a month would have a lot more in assets.  Even if she JUST paid off the house and bills dropped, property tax and insurance don’t go away and that would have to be one heck of a mortgage payment to make up the difference.

It could be that the $1200 is just her "regular monthly expenses" and neglects to include annual property tax, house insurance, car insurance, car repairs, house repairs, etc.

TomTX

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #81 on: November 10, 2019, 05:40:17 AM »
My widowed mother took my dad's SS benefit until she reached 70 then took her own.  This is a good idea from prior poster if it's possible.

I believe this loophole was closed.

mistymoney

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #82 on: November 10, 2019, 06:10:55 AM »
I would just like to offer a real life  data point and I don’t intend it to be in conflict with the majority of the advice on this thread.

Our weekend house cost $79,000. All utilities (not cable or wifi) average less than $200 a month. Taxes are about $100 a month.  This house has new windows and a new furnace and a recent roof. My point is that a simple old house can be eminently livable at $300 a month in flyover country.

Yes, this is in line with the house we bought to provide a place for one of our mothers.  It's very dependent on city, though.
Even in coastal SoCal (where property taxes are 1% of purchase price with only tiny increases each year) if bought long enoigh ago during the housing crash and paid off. That why I believe she CAN retire IF her current expenses are really in the $12k range. She could go on Medicaid, take a $100 or $200 each month from her IRA and still be under Medicaid cut off, and then maybe work part time, seasonal or do the baby sitting thibg for OP. Or downsize the house to free up cash or do a reverse mortgage and go live her life fully retired. What she spent her money on previously may not be a factor anymore if it's determined that it was for somethi g like paying extra towards her house or other expenses that no longer exist.

would food stamps also be on option for her? or whatever that is called these days? Seems like she is in a position for which these services are designed.

I think it is easy to say keep working to someone in their 60's - but there is no knowing what their internal reserves are for that output! If MIL can get medicaid until medicare kicks in and food stamps in a paid off house, that seems like she could make here. Nothing fancy, just the basics, but livable.

goatmom

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #83 on: November 10, 2019, 10:54:43 AM »
Does not sound like she is going to be retiring.  I would say she is changing her career.  Watching an infant is a full time labor intensive task.  If she is someone you want watching your precious baby - this is a win/win.  Pay her a decent wage over the table so she can afford to leave her current job, pay for healthcare, and contribute to SS that she can take when she is 67.  Having a trustworthy person who loves your baby is priceless.  Absolutely priceless.  Consider yourself lucky if this is the case. My mother watched my sister's children for years and they treated it like a real job.  It is rare to find a grandma these days who wants to take on this kind of task.  Best of luck!

DaMa

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #84 on: November 10, 2019, 06:21:20 PM »
My widowed mother took my dad's SS benefit until she reached 70 then took her own.  This is a good idea from prior poster if it's possible.

I believe this loophole was closed.

Still open for surviving spouse.  I can start collecting on my husband's as early as age 60, and switch to my own at 62 or later.

Cassie

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #85 on: November 10, 2019, 06:59:39 PM »
Maybe she should get on a list for low income senior housing now so when she is broke she has somewhere to live. It’s a sad situation but it’s better for her to remain independent.

Car Jack

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #86 on: November 11, 2019, 09:18:29 AM »
This is coming from a 62 year old, so my view is different from the general 20 and 30 somethings who are probably the majority here thinking that anyone over 50 is decrepit and how could they possibly be expected to work.

She needs to work at LEAST until she's 70.  She wants to retire.  Too bad...she can't.

Lots of us hate our jobs.  That's par for the course.  Sorry.  I'm still working mainly for health insurance.  And we have over 1000 times as much saved as she does.

If she wants to baby sit, that's fine.  Figure out a way where she can do that AFTER her day job finishes.  If it's a regular thing, you need to be paying payroll taxes and probably with holding state/federal taxes.

63 ain't elderly.  Unless she has some documented irregular medical condition, she has no excuse to stop working.  Sorry....none. 

Retirement is a fairly recent thing, historically.  For most of history, people worked until they fell over dead, while at work, often.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #87 on: November 11, 2019, 09:52:18 AM »
In my town, one of the home owners must be 65 to apply for relief from town taxes. The abatement is based on income. It will not eliminate taxes completely but reduce taxes owed. Age requirements may differ from state to state. One simple phone call to the town hall can answer that question. If she is eligible, there may be a certain time frame that she will need to apply. We had to bring our Federal Income tax forms from the previous tax year to prove income. It knocked off about $1,000 a year in taxes. Every two years we have to apply. We will no longer be eligible due to increased income. There may also be some tax relief from the state as well. It all is dependent on income.

Another thing to remind your MIL is to use senior discounts as often as possible. Some grocery stores have a discount one day a week or one day a month. Stock up on those days to save money. My library has a streaming service that is free. It allows 10 movies a month and kid movies are unlimited. Check with your local library for that information.

Also, she might consider a credit card to pay for purchases and bills. With certain credit cards you can get bonus bucks for money you would spend anyway. Of course, paying the bill off each month is key to success there.

If she has a lot of stuff, she could consider having a tag sale. Does she have any old jewelry that she doesn't want? She could take it somewhere that buys gold or pawn it. Does she have any collectible things that she could sell, like figurines or special Lenox dishware?

Most important is that someone needs to sit down with her and go over all her income sources, all her bills, taxes, repairs, payments. If she doesn't have enough money to live in the house, she probably needs to sell it and look for a tiny house or low income housing. Invest the money from the sale of the house into something that she can generate a monthly income to complement her Social Security.

I used to work with a woman who made a food item that everyone loved. She would make them over the weekend and sell them to people who preordered. It was a little hobby that made her a little spending money. It wouldn't have to be food, it could be something else like Christmas decorations, wreaths, kissing balls, home made soaps, scented oils. Look on youtube for ideas.

mm1970

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #88 on: November 11, 2019, 09:53:24 AM »
This is coming from a 62 year old, so my view is different from the general 20 and 30 somethings who are probably the majority here thinking that anyone over 50 is decrepit and how could they possibly be expected to work.

She needs to work at LEAST until she's 70.  She wants to retire.  Too bad...she can't.

Lots of us hate our jobs.  That's par for the course.  Sorry.  I'm still working mainly for health insurance.  And we have over 1000 times as much saved as she does.

If she wants to baby sit, that's fine.  Figure out a way where she can do that AFTER her day job finishes.  If it's a regular thing, you need to be paying payroll taxes and probably with holding state/federal taxes.

63 ain't elderly.  Unless she has some documented irregular medical condition, she has no excuse to stop working.  Sorry....none. 

Retirement is a fairly recent thing, historically.  For most of history, people worked until they fell over dead, while at work, often.

And we don't want to fix that...why?

I agree that she cannot afford to retire.  I work with a whole bunch of folks who are 60-70 (I'm 49, so I'm not exactly "young").  There are many reasons why people cannot work after 60 - or at least need to work less.  Physical abilities, brain abilities, illness, simple exhaustion - everything just takes longer to do when you are older (this is my own observation and that of my 60-something coworkers).

But some people really can't work.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #89 on: November 11, 2019, 10:10:27 AM »
MM1970 yes, you are right. Many people start to go down hill in their 60's. A friend of mine is 66 and is struggling in the workforce due to rheumatoid arthritis and sciatica which makes it difficult for her hands, ankles and standing in one spot for a long time is painful. But she happens to work with others that are half her age and are lazy blobs that can't get out of their own way. How those people will ever work into their 60's is unimaginable. Some people have other health issues. Health is a huge factor when it comes to working. Whey you are in your 40's you can't imagine slowing down but it does happen. Sometimes learning new things becomes difficult for older people too.

Kris

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #90 on: November 11, 2019, 10:37:55 AM »
I have no religious attachment to work, nor do I feel that a person's self-worth is connected to his/her ability to work.

That said. I just have to shake my head when people say they want to retire -- actually think they should retire -- but seemingly have done nothing to prepare for said retirement.

Every time I read a post in this thread, my brain basically goes like this:

She wants to retire.
But apparently for literal decades, she's done nothing to prepare to retire.
So she can't retire.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #91 on: November 11, 2019, 11:31:29 AM »
Kris, you are so right:
She wants to retire.
But apparently for literal decades, she's done nothing to prepare to retire.
So she can't retire.

There are so many people like that!

There were people that worked at this factory years ago and with overtime, some husbands and wives were making around $175,000 a year. They went out and bought mansions, had brand new very expensive cars and the best of everything. The factory one day out of the blue shut down this department in a blink of an eye. Absolutely no warning. So many people out of work. There are not many factories in my area an no place pays like that. These people lost their shirts and contributed little to retirement savings. Many lost their houses to foreclosure. They thought the gravy train would never end.

My In laws would cash my FIL's check on payday and by Monday they had blown it. They were always getting calls from bill collectors, electric shut off, ran out of oil to heat the house. They didn't seem to care. They would get caught up and never change their ways. They had nothing to show for it. The FIL and MIL had stupid hobbies they could not afford but blew money on it. It was almost revenge spending. If he would spend $100 she would have to do the same. STUPID! IF it wasn't for him belonging to a union, he would not have had a pension, IRA or anything for retirement.

martyconlonontherun

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #92 on: November 11, 2019, 12:23:48 PM »
Maybe I missed it, but what is causing her to have to/want to retire at 62? Both my parents are around that age and are half-retired (Dad is a writer who was forced out by the local paper-works part-time, mom retired at 60), but they both could still work full-time if needed and not the healthiest bunch in the world. Are there medical issues causing this dire situation (either self-induced or bad health luck)?

62 on the surface doesn't seem like an age where I feel deep sympathy that they are still working. That age is usually still young enough to be a productive work and lots of people that age would be grateful for a job.

ETA: How much is this driven by the desire to stay at home with the grand kid? Might be easier for the grandma to mentally know that isn't an option and shut down any idea of day care until she is financially stable/retired on her own.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 12:26:04 PM by martyconlonontherun »

VioletVixen

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #93 on: November 11, 2019, 01:30:26 PM »
Thanks to those who provided helpful, nonjudgmental answers. Moderator, please close this thread.

frugaldrummer

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #94 on: November 12, 2019, 03:43:59 PM »
Before it closes, let me just say, I wonder WHY MIL is wanting to retire so early? My mom retired at 65, but turned out she had undiagnosed thyroid disease. She volunteered for a few years at the local library, her hypothyroidism got treated, she got hired as an assistant librarian at the library and worked 20 hours a week at a job she loved until she was 85! The money from this job supplemented her social security and in her later years, funded international travel that she loved.

I'd be worried about someone as young as MIL who is wanting to retire with no money - does she have a bad boss and need to change jobs? Does she have a health problem that needs attention?

Also, ditto on taking in a roommate to add to her income.

ontheway2

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #95 on: November 13, 2019, 08:37:21 AM »
This is coming from a 62 year old, so my view is different from the general 20 and 30 somethings who are probably the majority here thinking that anyone over 50 is decrepit and how could they possibly be expected to work.

She needs to work at LEAST until she's 70.  She wants to retire.  Too bad...she can't.

Lots of us hate our jobs.  That's par for the course.  Sorry.  I'm still working mainly for health insurance.  And we have over 1000 times as much saved as she does.

If she wants to baby sit, that's fine.  Figure out a way where she can do that AFTER her day job finishes.  If it's a regular thing, you need to be paying payroll taxes and probably with holding state/federal taxes.

63 ain't elderly.  Unless she has some documented irregular medical condition, she has no excuse to stop working.  Sorry....none. 

Retirement is a fairly recent thing, historically.  For most of history, people worked until they fell over dead, while at work, often.

Surely this is a typo?

partgypsy

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #96 on: November 13, 2019, 08:41:36 AM »
This is coming from a 62 year old, so my view is different from the general 20 and 30 somethings who are probably the majority here thinking that anyone over 50 is decrepit and how could they possibly be expected to work.

She needs to work at LEAST until she's 70.  She wants to retire.  Too bad...she can't.

Lots of us hate our jobs.  That's par for the course.  Sorry.  I'm still working mainly for health insurance.  And we have over 1000 times as much saved as she does.

If she wants to baby sit, that's fine.  Figure out a way where she can do that AFTER her day job finishes.  If it's a regular thing, you need to be paying payroll taxes and probably with holding state/federal taxes.

63 ain't elderly.  Unless she has some documented irregular medical condition, she has no excuse to stop working.  Sorry....none. 

Retirement is a fairly recent thing, historically.  For most of history, people worked until they fell over dead, while at work, often.

Surely this is a typo?
yeah you have 20 mil in the bank but you are still working for the health insurance? Not my choice but you do you.

dandarc

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #97 on: November 13, 2019, 08:46:48 AM »
Another post asking about FIL's inheritance - what's the deal there? I mean, seems clear MIL and FIL must have split a while back, but makes me wonder even more why OP is getting so involved in the in-laws finances.

VioletVixen

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #98 on: November 13, 2019, 09:52:31 AM »
Because I care about these people. I’d like this thread to be closed, I’m tired of the insensitive comments.

Kris

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Re: Mother-in-law wants to retire, but not much in savings. What can she do?
« Reply #99 on: November 13, 2019, 10:17:27 AM »
Realism is not necessarily insensitivity. If you care about these people, being realistic with them is the kindest thing you can do.

And to help you out, just saying "I want this thread to be closed" is not going to do anything. You'll need to contact a mod and ask them to close it.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 10:19:30 AM by Kris »