Author Topic: Loaning money to spouse's business  (Read 11065 times)

TwistedInside

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Loaning money to spouse's business
« on: September 12, 2013, 06:58:19 AM »
My spouse started a business shortly after we were married about two years ago. It's a good old fashioned brick and mortar professional business so there is a lot of debt to get started. I had to co-sign on the loan because there was no income to guarantee the loan otherwise. I gave up my saving for the down payment and the loan was signed. For one reason or another, I was not made a part owner of the business - something I'm regretting. The type of business my spouse started will take 5-7 years to be profitable. I have a high paying job so, with some cuts, we are able to maintain a standard of living with just my income, but haven't saved anything.

The first year went ok until the winter. There wasn't enough loan money left to keep the doors open during the down season so another loan was taken in order to float the first one. I don't remember if I had to co-sign on this one as well. The doors stayed open and business even seemed to pick up. Unfortunately, we are back into the slow season and once again there isn't enough money to keep the doors open.

About a year ago I started my own side business. This was not a gold fashioned brick and mortar business and required almost no money to get started. As a result it was almost instantly profitable. Recently, I was paid for a large contract so I have made several thousand dollars. My spouse expects this money to go to the cash strapped business to keep the doors open. This seems like a reasonable request except...

I'm a very mild mannered person and let my spouse take advantage of that. If I resist, the yelling and name calling starts. If I resist further I'm threatened with divorce or separation. I've had a wedding band hurled at me at least once. If I continue to resist, my spouse threatens to commit suicide! Two years of this have hurt my trust to say the least. I'm not willing to hand over a year's profits to somebody that threatens to leave me on a regular basis. I suggested that I be given a portion of the business or that a loan agreement between us and the business is signed.

Even to me this feels crass and mean, but I'm not sure what to do. I'm being accused of valuing money over my spouse - which isn't true. Am I being a jerk? Should I just do it because that's what spouses do? Is there another way?

Keep in mind this is only my side of the story and, by definition, probably isn't 100% accurate. Please take it easy on both of us.

starbuck

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2013, 07:03:45 AM »
I'm a very mild mannered person and let my spouse take advantage of that. If I resist, the yelling and name calling starts. If I resist further I'm threatened with divorce or separation. I've had a wedding band hurled at me at least once. If I continue to resist, my spouse threatens to commit suicide! Two years of this have hurt my trust to say the least. I'm not willing to hand over a year's profits to somebody that threatens to leave me on a regular basis. I suggested that I be given a portion of the business or that a loan agreement between us and the business is signed.

Holy cow, ditch that motherfucker already.

No, that is not how a loving partner acts towards their spouse. That's emotional blackmail. Really, there's no debate. Find a really good divorce lawyer right now. And DO NOT sign anything.

rockstache

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2013, 07:32:52 AM »
I won't say it as harshly as the previous poster, although my feelings are much the same. A spouse is supposed to love and cherish you, not take advantage of your weaknesses. You are afraid to bring up an important topic because of how they will react. Hurling a wedding ring, threatening to leave you, and threatening suicide are ways that your spouse is controlling you. They act out, you probably will be hesitant to repeat the behavior that "caused," them to act out, and effectively, he/she is training you to be manipulated by them. Please please do not stay in this verbally abusive situation. You deserve better than this. Go talk to a lawyer, and if at any time you feel physically threatened, there are abuse (some anonymous) free hotlines that you can call for help. Find a close friend or family member that you trust and confide in them, but leave this situation at all costs.

Edit: Spelling error
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 07:59:56 AM by rockstache »

footenote

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2013, 08:04:23 AM »
+1 to previous advice, and I'll add that you should see a counselor / therapist pronto. A qualified therapist can give you objective, caring advice and support that will enable you to get out of a bad relationship.

TwistedInside

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2013, 08:24:53 AM »
Thank you for your advice. We have been seeing a counselor. We grew up in different family situations so what is ingrained in our mind as "healthy" doesn't always match. There is little risk of physical abuse due to our physical differences. I'm trying to keep the specifics of my question, including our genders, a anonymous as possible (even to the point of creating a new account). Those of you that have asked specific questions I will send a PM.

Half-Borg

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2013, 08:31:14 AM »
Divorce if you don't give money? Who is valuing love over money again?

You are not being a jerk, money decisions are either joint or seperate, but never one side deciding for both.
I would certainly not give away more money, especially since the business doesn't seem to work out as planned.
I would not take your spouses outbursts to serious, he/she sounds very emotional, in my experience that settles very fast. Your spouse is probably just afraid to lose the business and feels like he/she is not contributing to your relationship.
You need a way to discuss serious matters, they are going to come up again.

Counseling sounds good.

rockstache

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2013, 08:37:33 AM »
I'm glad to hear that you are not at risk. My husband and I had very different family situations as well. His parents were (and are) loving and affectionate towards each other, and I grew up watching my parents verbally (and often physically) fight things out. Despite those differences, (and even though I am 5' 2" and my spouse is a big strong body building type), I would never dream of laying a finger on him, and have never resorted to name calling or nastiness. We do disagree, sometimes often, but we are respectful, and when we can't be, we retreat until we can talk about the situation calmly. I don't say that to brag...I am FAR from perfect, and sometimes I get really frustrated with him and lose my cool. But there are boundaries even within that because I love and respect him. If you have lost that dynamic (of basic human respect) in your marriage, I would still encourage you to back away, and consider leaving the relationship. Even if you are not in physical danger, living with someone who is consistently disrespectful to you is not healthy.

I wish you the best in your situation. I know you didn't come here to bash your spouse, and there is always a lot more to the story, but sometimes a red flag is a red flag.

limeandpepper

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2013, 08:54:12 AM »
I'm sorry but that is manipulative, abusive behavior on your spouse's part. It doesn't matter whether you're in physical danger or not, it's not acceptable. This is not a healthy relationship and it is bad for your well-being. Perhaps in addition to a counselor you should also seek out a lawyer... for advice on the whole business thing, and how to protect yourself in the event of a divorce - which personally I think is something you should consider, given the situation.

cynthia1848

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2013, 09:21:27 AM »
I say DTMFA.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2013, 09:23:53 AM »
Agree completely with what everyone else already said. Your spouse is emotionally abusive and manipulative. I can't even imagine the toll that's taken on your self esteem and you don't deserve to be treated that way. Emotional abusive relationships are just as damaging as physical. It doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman, your partner doesn't seem to want to be in a healthy relationship.

Please see a lawyer now, lay out all of the expenditures and entanglements (co-signed loans, mutual investments, etc) and figure out how best to separate yourself from this person. Do not co-mingle anything else, and I would not tell them anything until you've gotten your ducks in a row.

And please see the counselor on your own to discuss the ramifications of a separation/divorce. You say that you are a mild mannered person, so you've probably been the one that gives in, takes it and tries to fix what is broken... but you need to see that it's not you that broke it, and there is only so much of yourself that you can give before you're emotionally bankrupt. You need to take care of yourself.

I know I'm repeating what most everyone just said, but this kind of info really needs to be repeated. You are not a bad person for wanting to be treated with respect and love from your partner. You deserve better. Please look into the counseling and the lawyer.

If you're a reader, you might also want to check out the book Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward: http://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Blackmail-People-Obligation-Manipulate/dp/0060928972
I've had to deal with this in my own life and this book and some counseling really helped.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 09:26:22 AM by Frankies Girl »

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2013, 09:37:51 AM »
Do not walk, but run, fast as fast as you can to a divorce lawyer. People like this are sociopaths and will DO anything to manipulate and control the situation. The minute you present the papers, they will want to LOVE you so much. You need to break away...this is an abusive relationship.

KulshanGirl

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2013, 09:54:40 AM »
I usually stay out of the relationship sorts of threads, but I'll speak up on this one.  +1 to everything above.  If someone uses the threat of leaving/divorce to manipulate you, and especially for money, the correct answer to that is BYE!  Only I totally recommend the advice to run, don't walk, to a divorce lawyer and start getting your ducks in a row first.  Whatever monetary hit you'll take today sounds like small beans compared to what a life with this person will cost you. 

nawhite

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2013, 10:30:27 AM »
Assuming that you don't want to get a divorce right away... (though the threatening suicide part put me over the top to agreeing with everyone else so far. ***)

You've said the two of you attend counselling already, I might increase the frequency simply because you need more opportunities to talk to each other with a mediator. The counselor being there makes it very difficult for a manipulative person to continue to operate in a negative way. It will also help you two to come up with more constructive ways of discussing with each other when you are at home.

Your request for ownership sounds very reasonable. It sounds like you have split finances at home in which case if you put up more money, you get more ownership plain and simple. If you have joint finances, then yes, you need to put up the money, but you also should have been listed as an owner in the business from the beginning (and vise versa your spouse needs to be listed as an owner in your business), you just need to rectify that oversight.

*** Stuff like that is unbelievably hard to hear from someone you love and care about but they have bigger issues that they need to work out. If you want to stay and help them work on them, you are a saint. But in western society where divorce happens and there are support services for people with psychological issues, its a tough call.


MissStache

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2013, 11:01:33 AM »
1.  Some businesses fail.  That is a risk that every business owner takes on.  It doesn't sound like this one is going to make it and there is no use in throwing good money after bad.  Time to let it go.  But before you have that conversation...

2.  If I were you, I would do everything I could to financially separate yourself from her.  If she makes good on her (abusive, maniupulative) threats and she leaves you, she sounds like the kind of person who would take everything she could before you could stop her.  You need to protect yourself, because...

3.  What everyone else said.  She's emotionally blackmailing you and using you.  Period.

livetogive

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2013, 02:31:55 PM »
Love advice aside, from a purely financial perspective you're much better off financing operating expenses with operating cash flow from another profitable segment.  Issuing long term debt for short term cash needs is a red flag, as you should try and match debt maturity with useful lives of equipment.

I know you needed something to start out and don't blame you, but what i'm saying is if you decide to stay together and you decide to fund her business don't do it with another loan.  Meanwhile start looking at ways to cut operating expense and free up some cash. 

tomsang

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2013, 03:40:41 PM »
There is little risk of physical abuse due to our physical differences.

Unless you are Superman, I would not count on stopping knives, bullets, lamps, etc. 

MMM preaches self sufficiency as a person and/or family. Don't let this person harm you in a physical, emotional, or financial manner.  A spouse should not act as you have described.  Going through a divorce in my past, I was nervouse about how people would think of me failing in marriage.  I was shocked by all the support that I received. Don't stay in a toxic relationship.

chasesfish

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2013, 06:02:33 PM »
I'm not going to be as direct as the othes, but here are my questions and I'm fine if you PM me.

What type of business is it?  Why is it running out of cash seasonally?  How much are you consigned for?

What are the costs to get out?

These may be one in the same or separate issues:  his/her business failing may not be the end of your marriage.  It sounds like the owner isn't accepting that this isn't working.   If its falling short of cash AND not paying your SO for any of their time, then you might as well be putting cash in a paper bag and running a lawnmower over it.  It will take less time and agony then the way it's happening now.

Daleth

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2013, 06:33:41 PM »
Well, I agree with the other posters that such behavior by a spouse dooms your marriage and should inspire an immediate exit on your part, but that's not what you asked for help on (but please, I implore you, DO NOT have kids with such a volatile and toxic person! Don't inflict that on a child!).

So my advice is that you should see a divorce lawyer, but for a different reason. Here's the reason: a good divorce lawyer will be able to tell you what the financial result is likely to be if you get divorced. For instance, will you be considered a part-owner of that business, even though there's no paperwork to that effect? It's entirely possible.

And perhaps even more critically, how many years do you have before the financial consequences of divorce get even worse? I know in some states, marriages that last more than 10 years can end up with the wealthier spouse having to pay alimony to the other FOR LIFE unless the other spouse remarries (which they usually won't--they'll just shack up with someone else and keep collecting your alimony), and I think 10 years is also the point at which under federal law the other spouse automatically gets a big bite of your social security. And there may also be laws or legal presumptions along the lines of "if you're married less than 3 years, you probably won't have to pay alimony at all or will only have to pay it for a year" or something like that.

So a good divorce lawyer will be able to tell you all that, and you'll be able to prepare. For instance, if there is a law or presumption in your state that relates to the length of the marriage, you might use that information as a personal deadline: "If she hasn't stopped acting like this by X date, I need to file for divorce because otherwise, if I drag it out even a couple of months longer, I'll be on the hook for..." whatever you're on the hook for: alimony for life, alimony for years, whatever. And a good lawyer would also be able to tell you what to do, and what NOT to do, to prepare your personal finances for the possibility that you'll divorce them (or they'll divorce you). For instance, is there anything you should or should not do with your salary, any inheritances, your retirement plan, your life insurance, any property you had before you got married...?

Such information could easily be worth tens of thousands of bucks to you, if not more. And if you're up for it I agree with the advice to pay for an hour of advice from several of the best lawyers in town, because in addition to the fact that a few good legal minds can probably help you more than just one good legal mind, it would also indeed mean they couldn't represent your spouse, and no one else in their law firm probably could either (one lawyer's conflict of interest "conflicts out" his or her entire firm unless clients waive it--I'm overly simplifying but that's the gist).

willn

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2013, 10:23:18 AM »
6 to 7 years to be profitable?  That's crazy.   She started too big and crippled the business with expenses and debt payments.  It was a horrible plan and I hope you can work all this out.

The financial issues are a symptom of the marriage, communication, expectation issues.

I'm gonna go all "Dr. Drew" on this and suggest there is some trauma or abuse in her background.  Frequent and continued counseling is the only way you'll save this.

The business is probably gone. Don't put anymore money into it.  Despite her assertions it doesn't mean you don't love her. Quite the contrary and you need to stand up to what sounds like some withering abuse to make her see that and she probably won't see it that way. But continuuing to finance it is to put both your futures at risk.  Enabling her continued failure by giving her money with which she just digs a deeper hole.  Stop digging.

Let this be a lesson to those reading.  With small business loans banks almost always want the spouse or house to be on the hook for the debt, because they fail so often.  Do not co sign any such agreement.  Many times if the business is halfway solid, the bank will back down and loan the money anyway.  If they don't then find another bank or better yet don't borrow money.

If your spouse objects you have to explain there are other ways. Start small.  Work side jobs. Save enough capital.  Debt can cripple an  otherwise solid business.  Loan payments aren't even deductible in most cases so you're paying back money with after tax profit.  Ugh.


Rebecca Stapler

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2013, 10:39:41 AM »
I am so sorry that you are going through this extremely difficult situation, and I'm very surprised that your counselor has not advised you to separate due to your partner's emotional abuse. Threatening suicide if you do XYZ is emotional abuse. You are not responsible for your partner's actions. If you decide that you don't deserve abuse (you don't!), and you separate, whatever your partner does is entirely your partner's choice -- it's not your fault.

It's time to ask yourself what is best for you, and take that path. No one should be abused and manipulated like that, no matter how much they love their partner.

Speak with a counselor on your own, not with your partner, and not the counselor you have been seeing. Speak with a respected divorce attorney who is an advocate for survivors of domestic violence. Do not go around to all the attorneys in town in order to conflict them out of advising your spouse! That is a waste of time, and probably isn't going to get you the desired result.

yolfer

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2013, 02:21:19 PM »
I'm in a similar situation, minus the emotional abuse. I have a steady job that supports the family, and my wife is starting a meatspace business that's finally bringing in some money, after 1+ years of getting off the ground. We also made the joint decision to postpone a home purchase and turn the down-payment fund into a sizable startup loan for the business.

Financially we're in a similar position but emotionally it sounds very different. PM me if you want to discuss more. My main advice for you is that next time your wife threatens suicide, take it 100% seriously. Call 911, etc. That'll either get her the help she needs (if she's serious) or it'll put an end to the empty threats (if that's what it is). Either way, she learns that her words have consequences.

willn

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2013, 03:17:49 PM »
We also made the joint decision to postpone a home purchase and turn the down-payment fund into a sizable startup loan for the business.

Think of it that way if you want, that's not a loan. That's equity.

yolfer

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2013, 10:37:16 PM »
We also made the joint decision to postpone a home purchase and turn the down-payment fund into a sizable startup loan for the business.

Think of it that way if you want, that's not a loan. That's equity.

We might be arguing semantics here, but we literally structured it as an unsecured loan, with a contract. My wife and I are the lenders and her business (the LLC) is the borrower. (We live in a communal property state so I technically own the business too.)

TwistedInside

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2013, 08:47:23 AM »
Thanks again for everybody's advice. I appreciate the decisiveness of many of you, but unfortunately it's harder to act when you're in the thick of it.

My main advice for you is that next time your wife threatens suicide, take it 100% seriously. Call 911, etc. That'll either get her the help she needs (if she's serious) or it'll put an end to the empty threats (if that's what it is). Either way, she learns that her words have consequences.

This is what I plan on doing. If I have a wedding band thrown at me again I'm keeping it. If there are threats of leaving I'm personally going to pack the bags and help her out the door.

I have seen a counselor on my own. One day I had to promise to be happy non stop from that point on or she would kill herself. About a week later I accused her of abuse and all hell broke loose. It was truly an nightmare. I'm ashamed to say I gave in and even told her it was all my fault just to put an end to it all. Telling the counselor about it all was the only time I actually saw an emotional response from her. Counselor's don't say "yup, you've been abused and should divorce" so I didn't really do anything except talk about it.

Anyway, things have been better since then. It's the previous threats that are making me hesitant about giving out money to a business I don't own any part of. Thanks again everybody.

KulshanGirl

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2013, 01:40:43 PM »
This is what I plan on doing. If I have a wedding band thrown at me again I'm keeping it. If there are threats of leaving I'm personally going to pack the bags and help her out the door.

If you're prepared to follow through on any or all of these, I still recommend speaking with a divorce lawyer beforehand.  You want to get things ready to go before you set the ball rolling.  Take $250 of that side business profit and spend an hour getting some guidance.  It'll be like your financial well-being gets to see a counselor too in addition to your emotional well-being.  I wish you courage and strength as this unfolds and works itself to it's resolution, whatever it turns out to be. 


Daleth

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2013, 06:22:51 PM »
This is what I plan on doing. If I have a wedding band thrown at me again I'm keeping it. If there are threats of leaving I'm personally going to pack the bags and help her out the door.

If you're prepared to follow through on any or all of these, I still recommend speaking with a divorce lawyer beforehand.  You want to get things ready to go before you set the ball rolling.  Take $250 of that side business profit and spend an hour getting some guidance.  It'll be like your financial well-being gets to see a counselor too in addition to your emotional well-being.  I wish you courage and strength as this unfolds and works itself to it's resolution, whatever it turns out to be.

Likewise. Best of luck.

A_Rock

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2013, 07:31:33 PM »
I definitely wish you the best of luck too.  I totally agree that it is easy for others to give advice on what to do but I know first hand that is far different when you are the one that is in the relationship.  I do have a recommendation if you're interested.  It seems like you are, for the time being, committed to continuing to work on your relationship.  I would highly recommend the book Getting the Love You Want, A Guide for Couples by Harville Hendrix .  When my ex and I went to therapy together, the therapy was based on the ideas in that book.  And even though ultimately we did still breakup I got a lot of value from the ideas in the book and it really helped me to see why we have chemistry with certain people and not others.

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2013, 11:44:14 AM »
Thanks again for everybody's advice. I appreciate the decisiveness of many of you, but unfortunately it's harder to act when you're in the thick of it.

My main advice for you is that next time your wife threatens suicide, take it 100% seriously. Call 911, etc. That'll either get her the help she needs (if she's serious) or it'll put an end to the empty threats (if that's what it is). Either way, she learns that her words have consequences.

This is what I plan on doing. If I have a wedding band thrown at me again I'm keeping it. If there are threats of leaving I'm personally going to pack the bags and help her out the door.

I have seen a counselor on my own. One day I had to promise to be happy non stop from that point on or she would kill herself. About a week later I accused her of abuse and all hell broke loose. It was truly an nightmare. I'm ashamed to say I gave in and even told her it was all my fault just to put an end to it all. Telling the counselor about it all was the only time I actually saw an emotional response from her. Counselor's don't say "yup, you've been abused and should divorce" so I didn't really do anything except talk about it.

Anyway, things have been better since then. It's the previous threats that are making me hesitant about giving out money to a business I don't own any part of. Thanks again everybody.

You are being played like a fiddle... Be happy or else? What the hell is that? Counselors are a waste of money if you they don't offer advice. A brick wall could be one, then again, brick wall don't need you coming back. It sounds like your wife is just playing nice to get her next payday loan. Tell her "no" and see how nice she is. No one deserve that abuse. Good luck.

willn

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2013, 12:17:50 PM »
A good counselor should recognize this for what it is.  Here's a resource that talks about this issue very specifically and may be of some help.

http://www.shrink4men.com/


Sparafusile

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2015, 09:27:36 PM »
I suppose there is no point in remaining anonymous - it was me that started the original thread. No point because my wife killed herself tonight. She swallowed two bottles of sleeping pills, set up a lethal concoction of drugs in an IV drip, and then strapped an anesthetic mask to her face to make sure she would never wake up. Her son found her several hours later, after getting out of school.

Please don't send me your sympathies because I can't take any more of that right now. My reason for posting is to encourage those of you with mental illness or depression to get the help you need. No matter how much pain you think you are enduring, the pain you can cause the people around you by taking your own life is much, much worse. I don't ever want someone to feel the way I do right now and you shouldn't either.

The last thing my wife said to me as she was leaving for work this morning is that she wanted to "be a perfect wife". I didn't want you to be perfect, I just wanted you to be here!

iamlindoro

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2015, 10:19:11 PM »
I suppose there is no point in remaining anonymous - it was me that started the original thread. No point because my wife killed herself tonight. She swallowed two bottles of sleeping pills, set up a lethal concoction of drugs in an IV drip, and then strapped an anesthetic mask to her face to make sure she would never wake up. Her son found her several hours later, after getting out of school.

Please don't send me your sympathies because I can't take any more of that right now. My reason for posting is to encourage those of you with mental illness or depression to get the help you need. No matter how much pain you think you are enduring, the pain you can cause the people around you by taking your own life is much, much worse. I don't ever want someone to feel the way I do right now and you shouldn't either.

The last thing my wife said to me as she was leaving for work this morning is that she wanted to "be a perfect wife". I didn't want you to be perfect, I just wanted you to be here!

This is an incredibly courageous thing to share.  Thank you for giving this much of yourself to a bunch of strangers.  You are a good person.

Kris

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2015, 10:29:24 PM »
I suppose there is no point in remaining anonymous - it was me that started the original thread. No point because my wife killed herself tonight. She swallowed two bottles of sleeping pills, set up a lethal concoction of drugs in an IV drip, and then strapped an anesthetic mask to her face to make sure she would never wake up. Her son found her several hours later, after getting out of school.

Please don't send me your sympathies because I can't take any more of that right now. My reason for posting is to encourage those of you with mental illness or depression to get the help you need. No matter how much pain you think you are enduring, the pain you can cause the people around you by taking your own life is much, much worse. I don't ever want someone to feel the way I do right now and you shouldn't either.

The last thing my wife said to me as she was leaving for work this morning is that she wanted to "be a perfect wife". I didn't want you to be perfect, I just wanted you to be here!

I have been sitting here for the past ten minutes trying to think what to write.

Sparafusile...  I have enjoyed your posts, and you are one of the contributors on here I have psid attention to. I won't pretend to know what to say now. Just know that I am thinking of you in your grief. I am so, so sorry.

K-ice

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2015, 11:03:36 PM »
I do know a bit about how hard it is to get help for someone with a mental illness.

I have no doubt you tried all you could. Sending you more courage & strength.

shuffler

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Re: Loaning money to spouse's business
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2015, 02:06:25 AM »
My reason for posting is to encourage those of you with mental illness or depression to get the help you need.
It's very kind of you to be thinking of others at this time.

Though it almost goes without saying, I'd also encourage survivors of a loved one's suicide to not hesitate to find support from friends, family, and especially (in my opinion) professional counseling.

You're in my thoughts.