Lease / Buy Bolt

[KYFIRE]

I know, I know, a new car!  How un-mustachian. 

I'm not sure if you've looked but new Bolts are cheap.  I've found left over 2020s for around $20k. 

I've been wanting to dip my toes into an EV vehicle but no matter what it's not a "smart" financial decision, it would be an addition to the paid off vehicles we have.  I could buy or lease one of these cheap ($330/month buy x $167/month lease).  I've never leased a car before but with that price it seems in line with depreciation plus doesn't keep me as obligated when a better model comes up in 3 years.  Anyone have experience with the Bolt and leasing vs buying one?

-Just to get it out of the way, I know older Leafs are dirt cheap but with the known battery issues I wouldn't feel confident taking to the next big town which when we do go usually hits 60-70 miles round trip (new those batteries were only rated at 83 and the stories I've read show some going as low as 50 now for early 201x models).

Thanks,

[Metalcat]

If the problem with an old leaf is the battery, then why not buy an old leaf and put in a new battery?

You're attracted to the lease because even though you are looking at a brand new car, you are already planning on upgrading to another brand new car in 3 years?

[norajean]

Bolts can be dirt cheap to lease, around $100/mo in some scenarios. In the past with Fed tax incentives and Calif incentives it was possible to lease for less than $50/mo. Costco recently had a $3000 rebate on them for leases. Go for it!

[KYFIRE]

So even getting the cheap Leaf a new battery seems to be upwards of $5k (or double the price basically).  Even then it's  likely only gets you to maybe 100-110 miles if can get the 30kWh battery.  That's certainly better but still $10k ish for nearly 10 year old vehicle with less than half the range.  The goal is that my wife should be able to also use for her 81 mile round trip commute AND use AC.  As far as replacing in 3 years, I normally keep cars for a lot longer (all ours are 7-18 years old now) but I think the advances are happening quickly and in 3 years the options might be drastically better.  Also estimating the payments and residual value, it seems like the total 3 year costs are about the same buy vs new so that's the only reason considering lease at this time.

As far as more incentives, I'm in KY so there's nothing from the state (coal country).  I was hoping to add the Costco discount but they're saying already baked into the 20k but there's no doc saying that.

[Metalcat]

So even getting the cheap Leaf a new battery seems to be upwards of $5k (or double the price basically).  Even then it's  likely only gets you to maybe 100-110 miles if can get the 30kWh battery.  That's certainly better but still $10k ish for nearly 10 year old vehicle with less than half the range.  The goal is that my wife should be able to also use for her 81 mile round trip commute AND use AC.  As far as replacing in 3 years, I normally keep cars for a lot longer (all ours are 7-18 years old now) but I think the advances are happening quickly and in 3 years the options might be drastically better.  Also estimating the payments and residual value, it seems like the total 3 year costs are about the same buy vs new so that's the only reason considering lease at this time.

As far as more incentives, I'm in KY so there's nothing from the state (coal country).  I was hoping to add the Costco discount but they're saying already baked into the 20k but there's no doc saying that.

You sound pretty decided and quite pleased with the math, so what kind of input are you looking for from us?
I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely curious if you are looking for input beyond support?

If you want a brand new car, and want the ability to upgrade to another brand new car in a few years, and this particular brand new car meets your specific needs, and the price is attractive to you, then why not?

[KYFIRE]

No!  You're supposed to talk me out of it:)

You're right though, I'm on the tipping point to pull the trigger but did want to see if anyone has experience with lease (I've never done) and specifically the Bolt (seems like the more popular option) and if could explain reasoning.  It's a crafty bunch on here and I'm always fear I miss the obvious.

[Metalcat]

No!  You're supposed to talk me out of it:)

You're right though, I'm on the tipping point to pull the trigger but did want to see if anyone has experience with lease (I've never done) and specifically the Bolt (seems like the more popular option) and if could explain reasoning.  It's a crafty bunch on here and I'm always fear I miss the obvious.

Ah, none of that was clear to me from your question.

Leasing: I've never done it, but I do know of a lot of people who have been dinged with heavy fees upon trying to return their leased cars, and many of them just bought out the lease in the end, which as far as I know, is the worst of all worlds. So look at the lease-return clauses carefully.

[RWD]

Leasing is usually the most expensive way to own a vehicle but there are situations where it can make sense. Heavily incentivized EVs are sometimes one of the exceptions where the math works out. Make sure you fully understand the terms and there are no gotchas that change the math. There are more variables in a leasing agreement compared to outright or loan purchases.

[draco44]

Two thoughts:
1. Remember that heavy incentives for EVs also change the math for just buying a new car outright rather than leasing.

2. You mention that it you'd be obtaining an EV car as "an addition to the paid off vehicles we have." That begs the question, why get another car now at all, EV or not?  If you just want to scratch the itch of experiencing what EV cars are like to drive, you can rent one for a weekend as a matter of curiosity, or borrow from a friend, and buy in a few years when you need rather than want another vehicle.

[KYFIRE]

Yes, the incentives make buying also an attractive option (to get a 250 mile range, new EV).

You are correct, this is definitely to scratch an itch/moral obligation to reduce CO2.  Even though running the numbers, because being in coal country makes the CO2 reduction much less of an impact in other areas of the country.  I did test drive on and it was great, for what it's intended to be which is still no Tesla.  I also had made a personal plan to not buy any more ICE vehicles for commuting going forward. Only real push is the current price because you're dead on, ultimately this is a want, not need.  I just wonder if these big discounts will still be around a couple years from now?

Thanks for all the feedback.

[Metalcat]

Yes, the incentives make buying also an attractive option (to get a 250 mile range, new EV).

You are correct, this is definitely to scratch an itch/moral obligation to reduce CO2.  Even though running the numbers, because being in coal country makes the CO2 reduction much less of an impact in other areas of the country.  I did test drive on and it was great, for what it's intended to be which is still no Tesla.  I also had made a personal plan to not buy any more ICE vehicles for commuting going forward. Only real push is the current price because you're dead on, ultimately this is a want, not need.  I just wonder if these big discounts will still be around a couple years from now?

Thanks for all the feedback.

Wait, are you trying to reduce your environmental impact by buying an unnecessary additional vehicle?
There are much more impactful things you can do if the environment is your main driving force.

[JLee]

There are some crazy EV lease deals if you can find them - e.g. $88/mo Hyundai Ioniq Limited EV:

https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/andy-hop-into-a-new-hyundai-this-april-98-ev-99-hybrid-139-elantra-188-kona-ev-or-awd-2k-das-palisa/279344

[Tester]

If you are buying a vehicle you don't need to be green, please don't.
If you buy an electric vehicle to be green, please be aware of the lifecycle CO2 footprint, don't only look at the "clean" tailpipe.
If you renew your electric vehicle quickly it will have a bigger lifecycle footprint for you than a normal car as the manufacturing footprint is bigger than for a conventional car.

[KYFIRE]

Thank you all.  This was the genuine kick in the ass I needed! 

I think I quelled the lizard part of my brain;

Rational Brain on getting a new car - "No"
Lizard Brain - "But I waaaaant it."

[Tester]

Glad it worked out.
Just to be clear, I am looking at a Bolt as a really tempting EV, but for now I am sticking to be a one car family, a 2009 Honda Odyssey with 190k miles on it with not even electric doors...
I love minivans :-).

[KYFIRE]

Yeah it really is a tempting entry into EV but still not worth it unless it is a need vs want.

[draco44]

Yeah it really is a tempting entry into EV but still not worth it unless it is a need vs want.

A gold star for you! :)

[Sid Hoffman]

$167/month lease

I know you've already posted that you have kind of changed your mind now, but that's actually a fantastic rate. I bought a 5-year old Prius 6 years ago, which is basically worthless as a car at this point. It's depreciated and required repairs and maintenance totaling about $1500/year in my 6 years of ownership. A $167/mo lease works out to about $2000 a year, which honestly isn't all that much more expensive than my very old, very used up car.

In fact in the big picture, $2000/year for a car that has a full warranty and won't require any repairs or maintenance the whole time you own it while also having totally modern safety systems (an area many ignore, even though it's the #1 preventable cause of death under age 50) and the peace of mind of being a new car. I think it comes down to what you're currently driving and how much it's repair, maintenance cost, and safety are a liability in comparison.

[Metalcat]

$167/month lease

I know you've already posted that you have kind of changed your mind now, but that's actually a fantastic rate. I bought a 5-year old Prius 6 years ago, which is basically worthless as a car at this point. It's depreciated and required repairs and maintenance totaling about $1500/year in my 6 years of ownership. A $167/mo lease works out to about $2000 a year, which honestly isn't all that much more expensive than my very old, very used up car.

In fact in the big picture, $2000/year for a car that has a full warranty and won't require any repairs or maintenance the whole time you own it while also having totally modern safety systems (an area many ignore, even though it's the #1 preventable cause of death under age 50) and the peace of mind of being a new car. I think it comes down to what you're currently driving and how much it's repair, maintenance cost, and safety are a liability in comparison.

Yes, it would be a very reasonable cost for *replacing* an existing car.

It's a stupid amount of money to buy an extra unneeded car just for the sake of feeling "cool" owning an EV, especially since leasing will probably require comprehensive insurance.