Keep this Car?

[surfhb]

Let me start of by saying this is a great forum.....You people really help keep me centered on what important in life!

Here's the issue.    Im 45, divorced and make roughly $65K a year living in Huntington Beach...working in LA.  I have a Toyota Truck which I bought new in 1992.  It has over 500K miles and just had the 22RE motor re-built for the 2nd time.    The body is fine with no major dents....newish paint...The truck is basically a work horse.    My drive is 46 mile one way to work since I have chosen to live near the beach to surf and enjoy the good weather.  (non-negotiable)

About 2 years ago I purchased a 2007 Civic with only 5000 miles on it for $12K.   I financed it at %6 and currently owe $8000.  It now has over 50K miles on it.....I drive ALOT!

My gut is telling me to sell the Civic and get out of this payment!    The real problem is three-fold:  family, friends and females :)     

My family has been bugging me for years to buy a new car and, to them, I'm more of a "grown-up" in my civic.    My friends just shrug laugh since my truck and me are basically synonymous.    Since I'm divorced I've begun  to date again and sometimes feel the only reason I have this car is to impress others (ie family, friends and females).    I honestly sometimes agree with them....its great to drive, good mileage and dependable, looks new.

Should I just hammer away at the payments and get it paid off early or dump the whole idea of 2 cars all together?    I love my truck...it hauls my surf gear, great for camping, ect.....honestly I think there's a weird emotional attachment to it.       Its only worth $2000 at the very most.   

What would you guys do?     Sell the Civic?   Sell the truck?   Keep Both? 

I just feel like Im paying $350  a month to impress others

[Greg]

Sounds like you should sell the Civic.  No reason you can't date or whatever in a truck.  Could even be a good filter for the kind of folks you don't want to end up with.

[CarDude]

Yeah, I'd get rid of the Civic. It doesn't sound like you want it at all.

[surfhb]

Its funny because this is the only place I have people telling me to sell the car.....EVERYONE in my life says Im crazy.     

[fishingman88]

If your truck is going to keep on going, sell the Civic.  If your truck will fail in the near future, sell it, take the $2000 and put it towards the Civic. 

In my terrible days....I had 2 convertibles and a truck.  Not sure what the hell compelled me except the status/reputation and because my friends/girls loved the cars. 

Having one vehicle is so much simpler and you have less to worry about. 

[Hedge_87]

Just YouTube Joe diffie "pick-up man"!! Play it anytime somebody doubts the truck!

[daverobev]

You're driving 90 miles a day; you should not be doing that in a truck if the truck doesn't get 10l/100km or better. Our 2004 Civic gets more like 6l/100km on long drives, slightly better depending on the roads (hills, etc). So 30mpg vs 45+mpg.

Keep the truck, why not. Maybe sell the shitvic and buy an older shitvic for commuting? If the truck is 'you' you'd be better off showing any potential female companion 'you' upfront rather than... I mean, I get it, first impressions, but you don't want first impressions to be someone entirely different.

For $8k can't you get a loan at a better rate than 6%? Civics are generally solid, long lasting, etc, etc (not sure about your year though - block cracking issues? And we have manual, I've heard bad things about the automatics).

[Mortgage Free Mike]

I say keep the car because you never know how long that truck will last. Plus, I imagine the Civic is more fuel efficient. With your driving, I'm sure you're paying a lot on gas.
If you were driving just a few miles a day, I'd say sell the Civic.

[avongil]

Lets do the math before jumping to conclusions.  I threw both your cars into my spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ajeg4z5XrypmdE0yanpJSTlLTHFjbmV1eEU4cE9Ma0E&usp=drive_web#gid=0


Since the 92 is long paid for, I  made the net depreciation 0.
Long story short, the truck will cost you around $80 more per month if you don't count its original depreciation.

You have a few choices:

1 - spend 1K more per year to keep the truck.
2 - get a job closer to work and sell the civic.
3 - sell both the truck and the civic and find a used prius or similar car with crazy better fuel mileage.

Driving 25K per year is a bit nutty to be doing it in a 19 mpg vehicle.  If you really want to keep it, you should probably swap the civic that only gets 32 mpg, for a hybrid that will get you around 50.  This will work out even if you spend slightly more for the used hybrid.

[surfhb]

Thanks so much for the helpful insight

I'd like to repeat that the motor and components have all be rebuilt and the truck gets 25 mpg on the highway.     Maybe I'm not seeing the bigger picture or just stubborn but wouldn't getting rid of $9000 of debt with 7% interest be the smarter thing to do? ( I was wrong on the numbers in my original post)    Not to mention getting rid of the $1000 a year of full coverage insurance?

I'd really like to up my savings at this point in time.    I have a 401k but almost no E Fund....trying to feel a little more secure in that area :)

[avongil]

With 25 instead of 19, the numbers look better. It will cost you a bit more to keep the truck, but its not the end of the world.  At least 500$ more per year. 

You could get rid of the other car, and in another 10 years you will have a 1 million mile Toyota truck. Maybe you can get a sponsorship!

I think the cheapest option is to sell the truck, but we all have at least one vice.  Even MMM has way too many bicycles he does not need.

[greaper007]

Sell the Civic and buy a tandem bicycle for the ladies.   You'll be beating them off with a stick!

How much is the Civic worth now?    We have an 07 hybrid that's been a great car and my mom has an 07 non-hybrid automatic with 130,000+ that hasn't had a single major problem.    That car will last.   Though you might be able to break even on the sale at that kind of mileage, so it could be a good deal.

Still though, you love the truck and it seems like you could drive it for the next 10-20 years if you wanted to.   Those engines are fantastic and an older vehicle like that is so much easier to work on.   Why not sell the Civic, you can always buy something similar if you change your mind next year.    And that will be a year without car payments, insurance, maintenance etc.

[surfhb]

Yeah, the 22R motor is a work horse.   The motor is newly rebuilt and everything has been re-done.    I know every inch of the truck..... I can do all the basic maintenance myself.     I use it for surfing, camping, I can go off road, hauling larger items....it comes in handy often and just dont want to part ways with it since its not worth much at all.   

I owe $9000 on the Civic now and thats about what I can get for it in a private party sell.    58K mIles.    Oh....I just discovered  the Civic needs a new motor mount on the passenger side and new brakes ($$)    Also the 2007 had its warranty extended by Honda since many have been having cracked blocks.    Although this issue probably is more of a problem in cold weather locations.

The issue for me is a social one.    I guess I just need to not give a fuck what everyone thinks.    Everyone I talk to says keep the Civic since its reliable transportation....but so is the Truck....Ive only driven it to the moon and back twice ... over 500K Miles :)    Ive had it since 1992 and everyone forgets its been the  best financial decision since I haven't had a car payment in 18 years.

Anyway....Ive decided to drop the Civic and increase my net worth by $9K....isnt that what its all about?

Thanks for the insight guys

[frugaliknowit]

I disagree with most here.  Get rid of the truck, use the proceeds to pay off the Civic, a much more sensible car in the long run.  As far as hauling stuff, buy one of those "capsules" for the roof (look at REI, then price them elsewhere). 

Make cutbacks in other areas to pay off the civic loan.  It's a 6% return!

[ivyhedge]

Yeah, the 22R motor is a work horse.   The motor is newly rebuilt and everything has been re-done.    I know every inch of the truck..... I can do all the basic maintenance myself.     I use it for surfing, camping, I can go off road, hauling larger items....it comes in handy often and just dont want to part ways with it since its not worth much at all.   

The issue for me is a social one.    I guess I just need to not give a fuck what everyone thinks.    Everyone I talk to says keep the Civic since its reliable transportation....but so is the Truck....Ive only driven it to the moon and back twice ... over 500K Miles :)    Ive had it since 1992 and everyone forgets its been the  best financial decision since I haven't had a car payment in 18 years.

Thanks for the insight guys

I like your decision. Perhaps learn to wrench a few more things on your own to minimize moderate out of pocket expenses in the future. You could even pick one or two things to freshen the truck: new speakers, seat covers, shim up a sagging dash, etc. A few small contributions could spiff it up nicely and demand minimal time/money.

[Ashyukun]

Ultimately, it's going to come down to what matters more to you. You've made the case that you make heavy use of the truck's capabilities for hauling and camping, and that it is much more 'you' than the Civic. It's clearly something that you pu a value on- it's just up to you to decide whether it's worth the extra (as calculated up the thread) money operating it vs. the Civic. If it's worth it to you, keep the truck and lose the Civic.

Out of curiousity, I ran the basic calcs on what fuel costs for the truck and your commute would be- it looks like (assuming $4/gallon gas, which may be solidly low for where you are...) it's around $300/month. What I'm about to suggest is certainly not the most Mustachian thing ever- but how much are leases on plug-in electrics out there? I know here that they at least for a while with all incentives on the table were running in the vicinity of $200/month. If it's similar there, it seems likely that the cost of the lease + the cost of charging it could be less than the cost of driving the truck on the commute. Something to consider- or throw out the window into the surf if you wish. :P

[avongil]

The problem with electrics now is the range wont work for this application. Not even if you plug it in at work. 
Give it a few more years and electrics will be suitable for your comute and you will be able to find one easily.

You have a few options:

Used Nissan Leaf: realistically 50 or 60 mile range.  This probably work work though!  You have a chance of you can recharge at work.

Used Volt: Eh... GM. How come they car yet? the incompetence troubles me.
 20K used. 100 mpg equivalent for the first 35 miles, then 35 for the remaining 65 of the commute. That just blows.  The hybrid system is lack luster compared to the Toyota/Ford planetary unit.

Used Prius Plug in Hybrid:  20K 13 Miles pure electric. Then regular prius for the remaining 87 miles.    Your best option at this point in time,  but at a huge price.  We got one, and are getting 65+ MPG factoring in the cost of electricity/fuel equivalent.

Used Older Prius: same as above, you will get 45 mpg. PRobably the cheapest solution.


Right now your options are limited.  Save your bucks, and buy (cash) a full electric, plug in hybrid or regular hybrid in a few years if you still have the huge commute. 

[surfhb]

Thanks

There's no way I'll buy an electric till the ranges get better.....cant wait for the future though :)

This is an easy decision now.....I just needed to get some opinions from others on a 45 year old man driving the same truck he bought in college going out on dates. :)    I'll wipe out $9K in debt and cut out $1000 a year in insurance cost.    Total yearly saving will be around $4000

[Ashyukun]

The fact that the tech is still changing so fast is why I suggested leasing one vs buying it- a pure electric is about the ONLY thing I'd ever make this recommendation about since at least for a while there were ridiculous incentives for them simply trying to get people to try them and by the end of the lease there will likely be way better options available due to tech improvements.

Re: "a 45 year old man driving the same truck he bought in college going out on dates." I'll couch this by pointing out that I'm a (straight) 39-year old man and thus not who you'd really care aboug, but I know LOTS of people who wish they'd kept their car/truck from college. If the truck really is as much 'you' as you imply, it seems that you're probably in the long run better off driving it and not worrying about any women who turn their nose up at you because of it. Lose the debt, drive the truck, and wait for that woman who appreciates your frugality and practicality in driving and keeping the truck running.

[Doomspark]

Used Volt: Eh... GM. How come they car yet? the incompetence troubles me.
 20K used. 100 mpg equivalent for the first 35 miles, then 35 for the remaining 65 of the commute. That just blows.  The hybrid system is lack luster compared to the Toyota/Ford planetary unit.

On my Volt, I get 45 to 50 miles on battery and 38-39 when using gas.  Not sure where you got your numbers, but they don't match with my experience.

[Spartana]

I'd keep the truck and sell the car. Put that money aside for a "future" car (one that gets better gas mileage). Don't worry too much about the dating thing either. I'm in HB also so understand what you mean about people viewing you as a person based on your car. But there are many women that really appreciate a man who is frugal and non-materialistic even here (especially here) in The OC. If the woman can't get past the kind of vehicle you drive, shge probably isn't going to be able to get past the other frugal things you love and want as part of your life. And besides, as one of those frugal, straight, single middle-aged females who also drives an old truck (2001 Ranger extra cab - hey, it hauls my bikes and camping gear!!) I face, I believe, an even bigger stereotype when it comes to dating men and have seemed to overcome it pretty successfully.

[surfhb]

I'd keep the truck and sell the car. Put that money aside for a "future" car (one that gets better gas mileage). Don't worry too much about the dating thing either. I'm in HB also so understand what you mean about people viewing you as a person based on your car. But there are many women that really appreciate a man who is frugal and non-materialistic even here (especially here) in The OC. If the woman can't get past the kind of vehicle you drive, shge probably isn't going to be able to get past the other frugal things you love and want as part of your life. And besides, as one of those frugal, straight, single middle-aged females who also drives an old truck (2001 Ranger extra cab - hey, it hauls my bikes and camping gear!!) I face, I believe, an even bigger stereotype when it comes to dating men and have seemed to overcome it pretty successfully.

Thanks for that......very cool!     Buy you lunch sometime?   ;)

[avongil]

as per http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=33900
-
"When fully charged, this vehicle can go about 38 miles on electricity alone, costing you about 4.1¢ per mile.
After the first 38 miles, the vehicle will function like a regular hybrid and consume only gasoline, costing about 10.8¢/mile."
-

I am quoting averages. If you are an uber economic driver we cannot transpose that to someone else.  It is however irrelevant your numbers don't work for him either.  The point was that the cost of the vehicle compared to the cost savings for the OP is not worth it at this point in time.

This will change in the next few years, so considering the OP does not want debt, and really loves his truck the best course of action is to:

1 - sell the civic since there is no love for it and it's not saving much money
2 - save money while investing and gaining interest for the next few years
3 - purchase a high MPG car (maybe electric, maybe PHEV - who knows what will happen in 4 years) cash when enough is saved if the commute continues. I have high hopes in the Tesla model "E" and their contributions to the automotive field
4 - keep the truck forever. No sense in ditching it now, there is much love for it and the cost savings would be negligible.

[chasesfish]

An old truck with a surfboard in the back fits you.  Your next lady should like you for your. Life's too short


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[avongil]

Oh BTW, did I mention how great that truck looks especially for having 500K miles. If  a woman does not appreciate that, then she is not worth dating at all.

[surfhb]

Thanks.   People are shocked when I tell them the mileage.   

Currently I'm in the number 2 position on the Toyota Nation Forums.   Some other guy has over 800,000 verified miles

[Spartana]

I'd keep the truck and sell the car. Put that money aside for a "future" car (one that gets better gas mileage). Don't worry too much about the dating thing either. I'm in HB also so understand what you mean about people viewing you as a person based on your car. But there are many women that really appreciate a man who is frugal and non-materialistic even here (especially here) in The OC. If the woman can't get past the kind of vehicle you drive, shge probably isn't going to be able to get past the other frugal things you love and want as part of your life. And besides, as one of those frugal, straight, single middle-aged females who also drives an old truck (2001 Ranger extra cab - hey, it hauls my bikes and camping gear!!) I face, I believe, an even bigger stereotype when it comes to dating men and have seemed to overcome it pretty successfully.

Thanks for that......very cool!     Buy you lunch sometime?   ;)

  Of course I'm old enough to be your...er...very slightly older sister by a couple of years or 3 or 4 or... :-) so doubt if I'm your frugal-dream girl :-)!

Of course us single mustachian women who are already FIRE'd have our own set of dating problems. The guy I was recently involved with for a fairly long time was about your age (45), very frugal, debt free, down to earth, and  mustachian. Just wanted to surf in the morning and play beach volleyball in the afternoon and work in between. Perfect match. However he couldn't see him self ever retiring before he was 65 and I couldn't see myself being tied down by his job for 20 years when I wanted to be free to travel long term or live elsewhere. So sometimes it's not lack of money and image or even being compatible on many things, sometimes it's just where you're at in life.