Is anyone else just limping along at work?

[Nick_Miller]

After years being on this site for years, trying to convince myself or otherwise "crunch the numbers" to conclude that I could 'soon' shift from working as a FT lawyer to working FT as a novelist, I recently slapped myself in the face and said sternly (to myself), "Nick, at this rate, you have FIVE more years, bare minimum, of working as a lawyer before FIRE is even possible!"

Anyway, I go to work everyday, I do 'fine', I even earned bonuses in the past two months. But my passion is gone. I don't get excited about cases, I don't excited about networking, I don't get excited about fighting with insurance companies. At the end of each day, I just want to go home, hang with the fam, and work on a novel. And I think about 'writing stuff' ALLLLL day long at work; my current book, my next book, my next series, which conferences I will attend, which writers I want to network with, etc. A large percentage of my brain activity is devoted to that stuff. Very little is devoted to my law job. I now view novelists, not lawyers, as "my people."

Who else is limping along at work? Is anyone else constantly daydreaming about 'greener grass', whether that's straight-up FIRE, a more fun job, or just more $ to earn yourself more freedom generally speaking? How do you address such thoughts? Do  you have any games or mental exercises that you play with yourself to pass the time, something the equivalent of a paper chain, or does tracking something still so far off just tend to drive a person crazy?

Is it perhaps a badly kept secret that a LOT of people are coasting/phoning it in?

[Morning Glory]

Yes I totally limped along for my last two years of work.  You sound burned out. Can you ask for an unpaid leave of six months to a year?

[zolotiyeruki]

When was the last time you took a vacation?  Not necessarily a "vacation" with the kids (because those can be just as stressful as work!), but an actual break when you've had time to relax.  Because it sounds like you could use one.

Another thought:  can you figure out what it is, specifically, that has sapped your motivation at work?  I've often found that if I'm struggling to be motivated at work, it helps to identify the source--has the work changed?  Is it just the itch to do your writing?  Has it become stale/routine/the same every day?  Did something happen to dampen your interest in the work?

[Malossi792]

Count me in.
I'm in another profession which is also 'supposed to' become your life. Well guess what it's trying real hard to do just that, and I can't say nopey nope nope often enough.
Celebrating little (what's little, anyway?) nw milestones helps a bit.
A fu attitude is something I always had, fu money just beautifully accentuates it :)

[swashbucklinstache]

I've been there and back, got the t-shirt, etc. I've had two things that have helped. One is finding a role where it is totally okay to do just okay work for large chunks of time. For many that's part of being senior, they just don't realize it. If I'm the only one who can successfully take the reigns during an emergency, one way to leverage that is to take it easy during non-emergency times. If you're getting bonuses while limping, realize this might be the reward for all the years of blood sweat and tears.

The other is just to embrace it. I embrace average performance in what is, at this point, a part of my life not in the top five most importance. I also embrace the feeling of having to wait, of boredom, of a little bit of life slipping away in exchange for a lot of future freedom. From that perch I do average work and get my professional kicks from informally mentoring juniors at work about how to work between the lines and how to fit work around life not the other way around. It's totally okay for my brain to mostly be elsewhere and I feel zero guilt for it. The company is okay with it too. Not just because emergencies do still happen but because for many juniors that best first step towards making work fit into life is putting in those 5-8 years of blood sweat and tears up front. I'm not shy in telling them that.

[WSUCoug1994]

I am in professional services as well been in the industry 25 years and 22 of those with the same employer.  80-100 hour weeks on the regular.  I am in my last year as I am going to retire at the end of 2022.  I am barely making it day to day - as of June I will stop taking on new projects and begin winding down for the remaining 6 months. 

I feel exactly the same way but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.  I am crispy burnt.

[SunnyDays]

Yeah, I was crispy burnt by the last few years of work too.  Had to hang in there for the DB pension though.  I confess to doing the bare minimum, and sometimes not even that, taking long lunches, doing personal stuff at work, etc.  I did feel guilty about it, but at almost 30 years of the same job, I was beyond done.

In your position, I would focus on breaking the time down by weeks and days and setting personal goals for various time blocks.  Do the same for work tasks, keeping them doable and not at all ambitious.  Then mark off the rewards for doing each thing - another chapter, a mortgage payment, etc.  It gives you something concrete to focus on instead of just "5 more years."  If you put it in writing every week, you can cross things off as accomplished and throw away the sheet at the end of the week.  Count down the sheets you throw away.  Compare how much time you spend on personal versus work tasks.  Those are the kinds of games I played with myself and it did seem to help.

It's a tough stretch, no doubt about it.  Hang in there, the time is going to pass anyway, the goal is just to make it as painless as possible.

[Blackeagle]

Is it perhaps a badly kept secret that a LOT of people are coasting/phoning it in?

To be a bit reductive, I think we can divide workers into three groups:

• Those who derive great meaning and enjoyment from their jobs.
• Those who feel fairly neutrally about their jobs.
• Those who actively dislike their work and hate their jobs.

Of these groups, I think #2 is by far the largest.

But that doesn’t quite tell the whole story.  It may seem obvious that all of the people who are unhappy with their jobs are in the third group.  However, I think that many people who are unhappy with their jobs are actually in group 2, but they think they should be in group 1.  If someone has the expectation that their job will provide meaning and enjoyment, it's going to be a source of frustration when it doesn't, even if there isn't anything they actively dislike about their job. 

On the other hand, the people in group 2 who derive their meaning and enjoyment elsewhere in their lives can be just as happy if not happier than the folks in group 1.

[Nick_Miller]

Reading these is helping! I will respond more later, but for now I am focusing on knocking out 3 things this afternoon. That's it, just 3 things.

1) Finishing a demand package.
2) Updating my "To Do" list.
3) Making a phone call I am dreading.

That's it, if I do those things before 5PM I will call it day.

Making (very) manageable lists and rewarding myself for checking things off is probably something I should start doing daily.

*I think something else I might start doing is to take a small item from my office home every day (or else, toss it in the garbage). I have probably over 500 various mementos, knickknacks, action figures, magazines, hats, sets of business cards, etc., in my office. Even doing a daily Shawshank Redemption thing would probably take over 2 years. I might even keep a list. Today I am taking home some loose change!

[ChickenStash]

I'm in a similar boat except with 7-10 years remaining at current estimates. I get the work done but I get annoyed at myself for how much time I spend wishing I wasn't working. My reviews are still "exceeds expectations" and I still get a bonus when they happen but I know I'm not as productive as I reasonably could be.

For me, I think I'm just bored with my career. I've worked at a few different places over my 20ish year career, but the work is pretty much the same stuff everywhere. The details change a bit as the technology changes. I'm able to work with my coworkers but don't like or respect many of them so continually trying to play nice takes a lot of effort. WFH has made that a lot worse.

I'd like to try something new, but any move would likely be a salary drop for a few years, at least, and push the FI date out even further. There's no sabbatical or extended leave programs to take advantage of so if I want out for more than a few weeks I'd have to quit and go job hunting.

[PoutineLover]

I am dealing with a difficult situation with my supervisor, and it has made work more difficult than usual. My actual tasks aren't that hard, but they're so routine that getting up the motivation to do them becomes a problem. I'm still very far off from FIRE (fairly early into my career) and while I'm saving a lot (around 50% of my take home) it still doesn't feel fast enough. There are no bonuses at my job, but I just do what I need to do to make sure that things move along, and I don't bust my ass to go above and beyond, there would be no point.
Sometimes I think it would be nice to have a job I really cared about, but I feel like that's so rare. I prefer to focus my energy on other parts of my life (relationship, hobbies, volunteering) and my job is just the thing I need to do to afford to live.

[markbike528CBX]

I used to be in this boat.
I'd spend the first couple of hours looking at, updating, tweaking,  my FIRE spreadsheet.
I would wonder why I was torturing myself doing that, as the spreadsheet made perfectly clear that I was able to FIRE for 2 years before I pulled the pin.

So basically ditto to all the other responders.

[WSUCoug1994]

I don't know if this would help you but one thing that really helped me over the last 3-4 years as I crawled to the finish line was pre-booking all of my vacation days.  For me, I likely averaged 5-10 days of vacation used a year.  Then I started blocking out my calendar every January (I get 8 weeks of vacation) and it made taking that time off much easier - easier to plan with my team - and everyone knew about it.  It made a massive improvement in my overall mental health - looking forward to that time but also being present on vacation with my family. 

[LightStache]

I'm in the same boat OP, with five years and four months left ;). My current gig pays very well -- it's easy but boring and frustrating.

I've tried a four different-ish careers and didn't like any of them. So it does bother me when people on this site suggest that you should quit your job to find "the one" and take a pay cut! Just do this ad nauseum so that 30 years later you get paid nothing and still have a job you don't like.

I don't know if this would help you but one thing that really helped me over the last 3-4 years as I crawled to the finish line was pre-booking all of my vacation days.  For me, I likely averaged 5-10 days of vacation used a year.  Then I started blocking out my calendar every January (I get 8 weeks of vacation) and it made taking that time off much easier - easier to plan with my team - and everyone knew about it.  It made a massive improvement in my overall mental health - looking forward to that time but also being present on vacation with my family.

I appreciate this tip and I think I'll adopt the practice! My only thing now is to count down months because 64 doesn't seem like a lot so I do a little celebration on the 21st.

[Mr. Green]

I limped along the last 2-3 years of work. Like took 400 hours of "vacation" each year and 90% of that time was just not being able to stay in the office 8 hours a day. At the time I daydreamed of thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail. I was reading trail journals of other people as they completed their hikes each summer. I had a countdown on post it notes that started with over 700 days left at the start. Looking back, I was lucky that a countdown that far out actually worked (FIREing), though I swore to myself that I'd quit at the end of that time no matter what.

I'm not sure that I could limp for 5 years. I was pretty shot after my 2-3 year stint. I think doubling that time would have killed my soul. I mean really what would have happened is I would have finally reached the point where I just couldn't go anymore and that would have been it. That would have been an awful way to go though. For a 5 year slog I would definitely need some kind of intermediate goals to look forward too. The idea of pre-booking vacations and then just focusing on making it to that next vacation sounds like a good one, though it leaves a sour taste in my mouth to think about living that way for 5 more years. I really struggled with my job though, like to the point where thinking about details of my job or considering going back still gives me a violent physical reaction five years later. It sounds like your not quite that miserable.

[pdxvandal]

Yes. I did just take an international spring break vacation with family and friends which helped a little ... but 6-7 days simply isn't enough time to fully unwind and unplug.

My motivation levels at work have been pretty low for a few years. I don't volunteer to take on anything extra (although I'm voluntold to do some occasional extra work tasks or lead committees). I'm putting in 25-30 hour work weeks, sometimes less. HR sent me an email last month saying I was invited to some exclusive leadership camp for managers/directors (I'm not even at that job-title level). This two-day "camp" would require BS surveys, focus groups, extra work projects and put me two days further behind ... with unlikely any extra compensation or near-term promotion. With FIRE on the horizon for next year, I politely declined and said "maybe next year." I think it put them off a bit, but I don't care. That's what FU money can do for y'all.

Forgot to add: there is one weekly recurring meeting that is a time-waster (for me, at least) and includes too many many people talking over each other. During this hour meeting, I set up a meeting with myself so it looks like I'm in another meeting. Then I go on a walk, take a nap, play video games, read, watch sports, whatever. It's glorious.

[WanderLucky]

Yes, I am in a similar situation, although it's actually for a business that I own. It's a long story, but I am pretty much "stuck" in the business for at least the next 5 years, and I'm pretty miserable when I think about that.

I recently had the idea that I had to work harder at finding some joy in the "job". When I first started the business, there were many aspects that I loved and was motivated by. So I've been challenging myself to journal about this and try to find some small activities that I can take on that I actually enjoy. While there are still sucky parts that I have to deal with, having other projects with pieces that I like doing is giving me a boost, more so than other things that I was doing like counting down the days and planning vacations.

Also, I spend a lot of time thinking about what might be next for me. And I try to find pieces of my current work that I can focus on that will help me in my next "life", whatever that may be. So far, this isn't as helpful because I really don't know what's next, but I do keep it in mind while I'm working.

Another idea for you: Maybe start writing about your job - your next case could be the basis of a best seller....:)

[gooki]

Been there. The boredom started about 3 years out from my lean FIRE figure. Exercise during the work day was my solution. It helped a lot.

Started of as a 30 minute walk during lunch.

Ended with a 45 minute walk during both morning and afternoon tea and an hour plus swimming during lunch break. Nothing beats getting paid to stay healthy.

[BikeFanatic]

I was in your boat for the last 4/5 years until Fire. Like you I wanted to get to the finish line ASAP, and now that I look back I probably should have coast fired. It is so difficult slogging it out 5 years when you are burnt out. I switched jobs and that made me focus on something new and that year flew by. I also kept up my side gigs to earn more money, that kept me busy.
But if I had a passion for something like writting, I think I would have said the hell with this and found something part time and just write. When I finally did cut my ours it was heaven for a year but then I found I was still burnt out and dreading every day.

When I finally pulled the plug we downsized to a tiny home, moved to a community with a large retired population, reduced our expenses so much that I was over my fire number. Just in time for work to become unbearable with my 3rd boss in 3 years, I just pulled the plug a year ago and now I think I should have retired earlier or I should have coasted the last few years. I have no idea how old you are, but I am 57 so no matter what I have social security and  a small pension in my future, also no kids and that makes a big difference also in making the decision. Lastly though, going back to work now would be so difficult! I did a little part time work at first but it so interfered with my ability to really unwind and unplug that I finally quit. I guess I was doing the baby steps thing. Easing into retirement.
Just consider coasting if it works for you and get writing while you have the motivation. Working though burnout just isnt worth it.

[Nick_Miller]

Hopefully everyone is reading these accounts and feeling more seen; I know I am!

Having slept on it, I definitely am going to do a Shawshank thing. I mean, why not?? And if my office is barren in 2 year, no biggie. It will just make the final move out a lot easier.

Yeah, we could probably do CoastFIRE in a year or two, and I'd probably be happier doing that, but I'm still youngish...(late 40s) so I feel whiny when I think to myself, "Nick if you just stick it out, you could be 52 and retired with NO pressure on you to make a ton of $ with your books."

We already take a good number of vacations (we're going to Alaska this summer) and I have almost unlimited PTO (within reason) but I still have to be there 90% of the time so there's no really a way around that. I will crank up my gym visits and my walks; @gooki I agree with the whole "staying healthy on their dime" mentality for sure.

And yeah, having kids adds several layers of complexity. I want us to be in solid enough shape where we can help them out (a little) during those learn college/early career years.

[Dreamer40]

Having slept on it, I definitely am going to do a Shawshank thing. I mean, why not?? And if my office is barren in 2 year, no biggie. It will just make the final move out a lot easier.

I definitely did this. I kept a few things on the walls, a single coffee cup on my desk, and my nice lamps. People would come into my office and comment on how clean and refreshing it was. They didn’t realize that my filing cabinet was also totally empty. :) When the pandemic hit, I went in on a Saturday and cleared everything else out in 30 minutes. I never went back. I worked from home for almost another year. Then I retired.

I slogged through most of my 15-year lawyer career like you. It was rough. I planned a lot of exciting vacations and fantasized about the life I wanted. I would set reasonable daily work goals every morning then felt like I could stop and go home when I met them. I got very annoyed when unpredictable things came up! I became the most efficient attorney in the office. This was easy to do since I was in government practice and not billing. I started leading trainings on how to get our cases resolved faster and with fewer resources (short dispositive motions for the win!).

The only problem with my method is that supervisors would try to assign me bonus work or give me other people’s cases because I could do it faster. I should have hid my efficiency better. One day I pushed back more aggressively and said I would consider not retiring early if they would reassign one of my oral arguments to someone else. The supervisor said that was “charming.” I put in my notice the next day and quit one day before the argument. Apparently that supervisor hasn’t been allowed to supervise anymore after I left.

It’s a really hard path to limp along for years but it paid off in my case. I’m glad I stuck it out because now I can do whatever I want. And I mastered efficiency and productivity! I still often set daily or weekly goals, but now they’re things I want to do for myself.

[mistymoney]

I am very much limping along.

Was on a conf call last night with a small stakeholder group, it was a tense call in what has been a series of contention calls with this group. One of the stakeholders likes to get upset and spew angry diatribes about the organization/staff. It's not super pointed at an individual, but it is not fun to have to be the face of the org while they spew.

In the middle of the spiel, I kept thinking about just anouncing I resign! and hanging up. I was the ranking staff member so I felt some responsibility to bear the brunt of it and push back - which I did - and to define the roles of what staff function was and why we were not/should not be the scapegoat for this anger. I know that there is work going on behind the scenes to remove this biligerent person from the group, so it is being addressed. Although meanshile, we still need to get our work done!

If the stock market had shot up rather than down that day.....not sure I could have kept myself from pulling the trigger! despite my lack of preparedness to make that change.


ETA: While this may sound like something everyone might want to hang up on, part of my role is smoothing out relations like these, and I usual excel at it and on some level, enjoy the chanllenge. But I perhaps let this person wind themselves up a little too much, didn't interrupt as often to clarify and reframe things because 1) I was fantasizing about my dramatic resignation, and 2) there were workpeople in the house, and I was trapped in my kitchen for the call with all 6 cats, and they were going wild, jumping onto the counter and sink (we have 3 new cats, 2 are older formally feral kittens, and they haven't yet learned the rules, aren't 100% tamed, and I'm trying to be super consistent about never letting them on the counters/sink and DR table), one was trying to claw out the door to the DR, and one was howling and spitting at the others. I was doing my best to ignore all the climbing around - but the jumps up and clatter of dishes would startle a bit, I was muting and unmuting to drown out the clawing and howling as I tried to speak and interupt bozo, and hoping that my glances to the cats jumping into the sink, and then to the jumping onto the counter beside me didn't look like eyerolls, so - fun times!

[mntnmn117]

I definitely feel this. I plan to take a 1 year break to travel next year and find myself purposefully coasting a little now that I'm about a year away from that. The post trip/sabbatical 7 year slog to full FIRE will be the real marathon.

One way to look at it is I don't want to be too ambitious now and leave a big workload to my coworkers. If I slowly do less and less, by the time a I leave they won't even notice I'm gone.

[LonerMatt]

I am totally languishing. I have a bullshit job in the truest sense of the phrase: not even me (the person primarily benefiting from my job) believes it should exist. It is 10 hours of work (maybe) crammed into a 40 hour work week. Unlike you I don't have a path to FIRE which, in some ways, makes it easier to leave (and I am). But I think we often berate ourselves - the short term shouldn't matter because of this great longer term plan. I think that's unfair, the texture of your day is a huge part of your existence, even if it's unremarkable, repeated and routine. In that way a lot of things are less influential then how your day is actually spent and your relation to that time.

I just hate going into the office. At home I can play video games, go for walks, eat another sandwich, watch TV or have a fairly dull but entertaining day. In the office I either flaunt it (dangerous) or hide it (fatiguing).

[SweatingInAR]

One way to look at it is I don't want to be too ambitious now and leave a big workload to my coworkers. If I slowly do less and less, by the time a I leave they won't even notice I'm gone.

Haha! I notice several of the traditional-age soon-retirees doing this in my office! They hang out and answer questions all day without taking on any new long-term responsibilities. One or two have a date set, and some have a project milestone in mind. Such as: "xxx released to production, as long as it doesn't take more than a year"

I'm planning to coast FIRE in about a year, and it is hard to take multi-year project timelines seriously. I'm close enough that I probably could leave now, especially if I had a couple of consulting contracts lined up. Every once and a while I start to feel jaded about the big corporate job and think that none of it really matters for the world. I only started this job a year ago, and the end is in sight!

[ender]

My current job is less responsibility and more pay, better benefits, etc and I enjoy it a lot more than my last job.

I've been pondering this same question, which I think ultimately boils down to some weird "am I living up to my full potential?" type of existential question.

And no I'm not. I'm smart and capable  of a lot "more" (in a worldly materialistic perspective) and not using those abilities to the fullest. But I've started to come to terms that it's OK to choose how I use my abilities and to aim lower than what I could do.

[Fomerly known as something]

I’m a Federal Special Category employee who can retire in 2025 with 25 years of employment.  I’m just muddling along right now

[Nick_Miller]

Everyone enjoy the weekend, fellow limpers!

Today's Shawshank haul is a set of three chap sticks tubes from a chiropractor. (The chiropractors are responsibly for like 25% of the stuff in my office)

[okisok]

I am totally languishing. I have a bullshit job in the truest sense of the phrase: not even me (the person primarily benefiting from my job) believes it should exist. It is 10 hours of work (maybe) crammed into a 40 hour work week. Unlike you I don't have a path to FIRE which, in some ways, makes it easier to leave (and I am). But I think we often berate ourselves - the short term shouldn't matter because of this great longer term plan. I think that's unfair, the texture of your day is a huge part of your existence, even if it's unremarkable, repeated and routine. In that way a lot of things are less influential then how your day is actually spent and your relation to that time.

I just hate going into the office. At home I can play video games, go for walks, eat another sandwich, watch TV or have a fairly dull but entertaining day. In the office I either flaunt it (dangerous) or hide it (fatiguing).

This is me now. I would love to work from home and have the 'texture of my day' (great phrase!) be woven by my decisions, but that isn't possible because the owners are old and think that everyone just goofs off at home. Despite the fact that my work always gets done; in most cases more efficiently and better because I'm not distracted by the office stuff. -end rant-
I'm nowhere near FIRE. I have used the MMM principles to get myself to a good financial place but have never made a high enough salary to save the necessary to retire early. It's hard knowing I have another 20-25 years or so. There's nothing that I'm passionate about that I want to turn into a career--I just want to spend my days as I see fit.
But I'm glad to see this thread and think of the other limpers who are out there biding their time with games and tricks to make it seem less bleak. I love the Shawshank haul updates!

[MrThatsDifferent]

OP, my thoughts, take with a grain of salt:

You have lots of options and all the control here, what’s needed is effort and focus.

Option #1: stay safe
1. Reframe your thinking about work. You have 2 jobs: Lawyer Job, which is for maintenance and Writer Job, which is for fulfillment. You need both, but the energy for both is different.
A. Lawyer Job is needed to pay bills and advance your FIRE for you and the family. That’s its value. Honor that value with all the respect it deserves as it’s serving your goals. However, your only obligation is to do the least amount of competent work required—no more, no less. You can reinforce this with a gratitude journal about at least one thing each day you’re thankful for that occurred during this job.
B.  Conserve your work energy for Writer Job, that actually fulfills you. This is the job where you can not limp along, where you give it your very best. Find ways and opportunities to make this happen. Look to push yourself with impossible challenges that you kick your ass to achieve, while building a network of support that helps you get there. Be relentless.

Option #2: Shake things up
1. Keeping Option #1 in mind, either look for a new Lawyer job that you enjoy slightly more or find one that you can do 4x a week to give more time to Writer Job
2. Investigate law adjacent careers that can leverage your skills but challenge you to learn new things

Option #3: Go nuclear
1. Take a fucking leap and trust in your ability to survive and extricate yourself if needed
2. You’ve done well to save, you can, in theory take 1 year off working to change your life for the life you want
3. Currently, you’re giving 80% of energy to maintenance work and 20% to fulfillment work. What if, for 1 year at least, you reversed it?
4. Give yourself the gift of 1 year with Writer job as the primary job and part time work teaching, consulting or contracting as what you do to pay bills.
5. Evaluate this experiment: is this really the path you want? Will you discover that you can survive and thrive this way? Who knows but you’ll have no idea until your wish becomes a reality.
6. Invest in a support team to get you where you want: a qualified coach, a counselor, a mentor and a network or tribe of people as passionate as you for your fulfilling work.

Here’s what’s not serving you OP: complaining. It’s useless energy that takes away from your objectives, and you have too much in your corner. There is only one question to answer: what would you do if you weren’t afraid? Then, resolve the degree you’ll allow fear to be the guide for your life, instead of love. All that is then needed is effort. All of that is in your control and no one else’s. And if you can find the effort to commit yourself to what you love, take your ass to therapy and find out what’s holding you back that you haven’t healed?

[LightStache]

OP, my thoughts, take with a grain of salt:

You have lots of options and all the control here, what’s needed is effort and focus.

Option #1: stay safe
1. Reframe your thinking about work. You have 2 jobs: Lawyer Job, which is for maintenance and Writer Job, which is for fulfillment. You need both, but the energy for both is different.
A. Lawyer Job is needed to pay bills and advance your FIRE for you and the family. That’s its value. Honor that value with all the respect it deserves as it’s serving your goals. However, your only obligation is to do the least amount of competent work required—no more, no less. You can reinforce this with a gratitude journal about at least one thing each day you’re thankful for that occurred during this job.
B.  Conserve your work energy for Writer Job, that actually fulfills you. This is the job where you can not limp along, where you give it your very best. Find ways and opportunities to make this happen. Look to push yourself with impossible challenges that you kick your ass to achieve, while building a network of support that helps you get there. Be relentless.

Option #2: Shake things up
1. Keeping Option #1 in mind, either look for a new Lawyer job that you enjoy slightly more or find one that you can do 4x a week to give more time to Writer Job
2. Investigate law adjacent careers that can leverage your skills but challenge you to learn new things

Option #3: Go nuclear
1. Take a fucking leap and trust in your ability to survive and extricate yourself if needed
2. You’ve done well to save, you can, in theory take 1 year off working to change your life for the life you want
3. Currently, you’re giving 80% of energy to maintenance work and 20% to fulfillment work. What if, for 1 year at least, you reversed it?
4. Give yourself the gift of 1 year with Writer job as the primary job and part time work teaching, consulting or contracting as what you do to pay bills.
5. Evaluate this experiment: is this really the path you want? Will you discover that you can survive and thrive this way? Who knows but you’ll have no idea until your wish becomes a reality.
6. Invest in a support team to get you where you want: a qualified coach, a counselor, a mentor and a network or tribe of people as passionate as you for your fulfilling work.

Here’s what’s not serving you OP: complaining. It’s useless energy that takes away from your objectives, and you have too much in your corner. There is only one question to answer: what would you do if you weren’t afraid? Then, resolve the degree you’ll allow fear to be the guide for your life, instead of love. All that is then needed is effort. All of that is in your control and no one else’s. And if you can find the effort to commit yourself to what you love, take your ass to therapy and find out what’s holding you back that you haven’t healed?

^this is the kind of garbage I was referring to in my post up thread.

"Yea, OP you're just lazy, afraid, and damaged. So you need therapy. If you don't like working but still continue to do it, you're obviously messed up in the head. Go get yourself some help to be less of a POS."

[StarBright]

I've said before on this board (maybe in your journal?) - In the United States, time flexibility is the equivalent of golden handcuffs when you have young children. It is what it is and it can suck.

Like you, I have explored other work options and keep running the numbers to exit early - and it doesn't work because I have kids. My current (often stressful and probably underpaid) job does let me work remotely and step away from my computer whenever I need to pick up my child at school (which is often). That is worth a lot. As the main breadwinner, it feels irresponsible to walk away from that.

I bump against annoyance (and resentment) that duty nearly always wins over inclination at this point in my life, but also, isn't that a big part of having children? You commit to having them, educating and raising them. You can't just stop because you aren't feeling fulfilled. Study after study shows that this makes for shitty decades when you are raising them, but often greater life time happiness overall.

So yeah - limping along in a job that I am indifferent to and that sucks my health. The pandemic messed our plans up even more as it delayed DH's ability to pick up more slack and make more money. We keep our eyes open for more opportunities and try to roll with it when our current situation is the best that we can find.

[MrThatsDifferent]

OP, my thoughts, take with a grain of salt:

You have lots of options and all the control here, what’s needed is effort and focus.

Option #1: stay safe
1. Reframe your thinking about work. You have 2 jobs: Lawyer Job, which is for maintenance and Writer Job, which is for fulfillment. You need both, but the energy for both is different.
A. Lawyer Job is needed to pay bills and advance your FIRE for you and the family. That’s its value. Honor that value with all the respect it deserves as it’s serving your goals. However, your only obligation is to do the least amount of competent work required—no more, no less. You can reinforce this with a gratitude journal about at least one thing each day you’re thankful for that occurred during this job.
B.  Conserve your work energy for Writer Job, that actually fulfills you. This is the job where you can not limp along, where you give it your very best. Find ways and opportunities to make this happen. Look to push yourself with impossible challenges that you kick your ass to achieve, while building a network of support that helps you get there. Be relentless.

Option #2: Shake things up
1. Keeping Option #1 in mind, either look for a new Lawyer job that you enjoy slightly more or find one that you can do 4x a week to give more time to Writer Job
2. Investigate law adjacent careers that can leverage your skills but challenge you to learn new things

Option #3: Go nuclear
1. Take a fucking leap and trust in your ability to survive and extricate yourself if needed
2. You’ve done well to save, you can, in theory take 1 year off working to change your life for the life you want
3. Currently, you’re giving 80% of energy to maintenance work and 20% to fulfillment work. What if, for 1 year at least, you reversed it?
4. Give yourself the gift of 1 year with Writer job as the primary job and part time work teaching, consulting or contracting as what you do to pay bills.
5. Evaluate this experiment: is this really the path you want? Will you discover that you can survive and thrive this way? Who knows but you’ll have no idea until your wish becomes a reality.
6. Invest in a support team to get you where you want: a qualified coach, a counselor, a mentor and a network or tribe of people as passionate as you for your fulfilling work.

Here’s what’s not serving you OP: complaining. It’s useless energy that takes away from your objectives, and you have too much in your corner. There is only one question to answer: what would you do if you weren’t afraid? Then, resolve the degree you’ll allow fear to be the guide for your life, instead of love. All that is then needed is effort. All of that is in your control and no one else’s. And if you can find the effort to commit yourself to what you love, take your ass to therapy and find out what’s holding you back that you haven’t healed?

^this is the kind of garbage I was referring to in my post up thread.

"Yea, OP you're just lazy, afraid, and damaged. So you need therapy. If you don't like working but still continue to do it, you're obviously messed up in the head. Go get yourself some help to be less of a POS."

I feel for your situation as what you put in quotes is clearly your own negative self-talk, certainly nothing I wrote or implied. I can understand how damaging it is to have those thoughts bouncing around your head regarding your decision making and how you live your life with purpose. Therapy, by the way, doesn’t mean that you’re damaged, it’s a safe space to work through thinking and feelings (such as the negative self talk you’ve projected as my voice) that hold us a back or get in the way. There’s no stigma attached to therapy unless you create one about people changing their mental state using healthy and proven techniques and interventions.

I shared 3 options that I quickly saw, OP, a grown adult, will have their own and make their own decisions. At the core my advice was around re-positioning your mindset and situation as much as possible so the current yolk and unhappiness is less, because who wants to feel so unhappy and trapped at work every day for 5 years? That seems undesirable to me, particularly when their are a multitude of tools and strategies to change the situation and those feelings. IMHO

I prefaced my thoughts with take with a grain of salt, while trying to respond to OP’s question and dilemma. I’m curious as to what your advice is for OP beyond trying to malign the advice others took time to share?

[getsorted]

I've only been in my current job two years, but yes. Very yes.

The thing for me is, I was in the middle of training for my dream career when my marriage exploded and set off a chain of events that led to me not being able to pursue that training, and also suddenly living in a country where that training is vastly more expensive, while pay for that career is significantly less lucrative.

I tried to convince myself that I could keep doing this job the rest of my life, but I know I can't. But it will be several years before I can afford to go back to school and then start a new career at a lower salary than I'm at now.

I appreciate the burnout-busting tips in this thread. It's hard to keep going when your heart's not in what you do, but you still have to keep doing it.

[2Birds1Stone]

Yup. I've been in professional sales for the past 8 years and it's been a rollercoaster. There were several 3-9 month periods where I literally did nothing at all at work, both physically in an office and subsequently working from home. Luckily for me, the times where preparation met opportunity I was able to execute at a level that not only made me valuable to the company, but also made up for the periods of doing nothing. It used to kill my soul to sit in a grey fluorescent cube for 45 hours a week with nothing to do. Once WFH became a thing, I used that time to go ride my bike, hit the gym, run errands, etc. It's still not great, but at least I get to do something else during normal business hours. My journal on here was titled "IRL Office Space" for several years and I documented the whole shebang. 

Editing to add: I couldn't care less about the companies I was in charge of selling to. Most were terrible corporations that would do anything to increase profits. Between that and being a cog in a giant corporation myself, it was hard to be motivated........at least the pay is good.

[NV Teacher]

13 more days and this year is done.  One more year and I will have maxed out my retirement benefit.  I have enough money to leave now but I want to give it one more year because the thought of the shit show that the past two years have been being the end of a passion filled career doesn’t sit well with me.  Wish me luck.

[mastrr]

In general, no I'm not limping along as I feel like that mindset leads to more of a feeling that work is drudgery and causes me to having unneeded pity on myself.  For me it's less anxiety inducing when I just take the bull by the horns and cause things to happen.  I find that it takes me longer to do what I have to do when I'm in the state of feeling sorry for myself.

However, I have learned to have leniency on myself if I'm not as productive as I'd like to be.  When I was younger everyday was a sprint but now I view it as a marathon.  There are certainly days, weeks, and months that I feel like I'm limping along.  I went through a bad phase of burnout during the height of COVID which led me to make some life changes such as quitting caffeine and alcohol.

A huge focus of mine is self care and being super strict with my schedule so that I can keep in a good mindset.  I don't let others take advantage of my time or try to squeeze themselves in because that becomes overwhelming and exhausting.

I just keep telling myself that I'm in it for the long haul and to just show up everyday even if I don't feel like it (which is essentially everyday).

[Tyson]

The idea that you can or should find fulfillment at work is stupid.  Sorry for the blunt language.  But it's a trap set up by society and I see a lot of smart people fall into it.  In fact the whole "do what you love" for a career is seriously bad advice, IMO.  It's a trap in 2 dimensions. 

Best Case Scenario:
The best you can hope for is to try to make it in your field that you love and you fail.  It sucks because you have to live with the fact that you tried your best but your weren't good enough.  That's pretty bad.  But, IMO, it's not nearly as bad as the worst case scenario, which is what happens if you succeed in making a career.


Worst Case Scenario:
You get a job in a field you love.  It seems great for a while.  But then you want to take a break from this thing you 'love' but you can't because your bills, mortgage, savings, your entire life now depend upon this job/career.  Congrats,  you've just converted your 'love' into a ball and chain.  You will eventually lose your passion and feel like a fake.  And an ungrateful fake at that.


My advice?  Get a job that you don't hate, that you are good at and that pays you a ton of money.  Focus on doing good, quality work.  Take pride in the quality you deliver.  Don't 'identify' yourself with your job or career.  Understand that it's just a job and it's really only there to generate money for you.  Try to make it as pleasant and un-stressful as possible.  This is the path to actual job satisfaction.

[lutorm]

Yeah. I switched to half time. I'm still limping along, but I only have to limp half the time. ;-)

Seriously, I'm not unhappy at work, coworkers are fine, what we're doing is interesting, I just don't have it in me to care much anymore. Once I'm heads down on a problem, though, I'm fine. And only having to do it until Wednesday lunch makes it very tolerable.

[mistymoney]

The idea that you can or should find fulfillment at work is stupid.  Sorry for the blunt language.  But it's a trap set up by society and I see a lot of smart people fall into it.  In fact the whole "do what you love" for a career is seriously bad advice, IMO.  It's a trap in 2 dimensions. 

Best Case Scenario:
The best you can hope for is to try to make it in your field that you love and you fail.  It sucks because you have to live with the fact that you tried your best but your weren't good enough.  That's pretty bad.  But, IMO, it's not nearly as bad as the worst case scenario, which is what happens if you succeed in making a career.


Worst Case Scenario:
You get a job in a field you love.  It seems great for a while.  But then you want to take a break from this thing you 'love' but you can't because your bills, mortgage, savings, your entire life now depend upon this job/career.  Congrats,  you've just converted your 'love' into a ball and chain.  You will eventually lose your passion and feel like a fake.  And an ungrateful fake at that.


My advice?  Get a job that you don't hate, that you are good at and that pays you a ton of money.  Focus on doing good, quality work.  Take pride in the quality you deliver.  Don't 'identify' yourself with your job or career.  Understand that it's just a job and it's really only there to generate money for you.  Try to make it as pleasant and un-stressful as possible.  This is the path to actual job satisfaction.

I think it really depends on what you love/what you are doing - and as you mention - how good you are at it.

My job is something I find very interesting, and I am exceptionally good at it. I'm limping due to chaos and lack of staff, not the work itself. My frustration is twofold - 1 the scrambling, stress, lack of work/life balance, and then the other piece is that I've kind of positioned myself to be like really noteworthy nationally in my field, but I lack the time and energy needed to break into that "next level" because it would take a lot of extra time, conference circuit, etc. etc. and I'm currently burnout and trying to work towards getting some mental and physical health back in focus.

I popped on here to post that while still limping, I got a really good review, better than expected, and now I'm looking forward to see what the raise and bonus will be. It gave me a bit of a boost! Yes - I am old, burnt out, waiting to quit/fire, and still responding to the old carrot and stick....

Not expecting a whole lot with the raise and bonus, as company is struggling a bit, but it does help to motivate me a bit....at least it's something to look forward to :). One nice thing about being at your highest salary ever, is that any raise is going to take you to your new highest salary ever.

[big_owl]

I limped along for about 2yrs at work and ultimately developed depression, anxiety and terrible insomnia.  20/20 if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't have wasted those two years of my life as a shell of my former self.  Finally last October I told my boss to fuck himself (literally I said that) and resigned and spent the rest of my days driving a supercar to work and flexing hard on my boss.  7mo later and they still haven't found a replacement for me, I work as an independent contractor two days a week doing way less work but get paid twice as much....and get paid hourly.  This is they way.  Still have the same boss, btw, but the power dynamic is the exact opposite. 

[2Birds1Stone]

I limped along for about 2yrs at work and ultimately developed depression, anxiety and terrible insomnia.  20/20 if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't have wasted those two years of my life as a shell of my former self.  Finally last October I told my boss to fuck himself (literally I said that) and resigned and spent the rest of my days driving a supercar to work and flexing hard on my boss.  7mo later and they still haven't found a replacement for me, I work as an independent contractor two days a week doing way less work but get paid twice as much....and get paid hourly.  This is they way.  Still have the same boss, btw, but the power dynamic is the exact opposite.

Haha this is #winning. Sorry for the two years of misery, but things worked out for you!!


PS- what car (car nerd is curious)

[big_owl]

I limped along for about 2yrs at work and ultimately developed depression, anxiety and terrible insomnia.  20/20 if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't have wasted those two years of my life as a shell of my former self.  Finally last October I told my boss to fuck himself (literally I said that) and resigned and spent the rest of my days driving a supercar to work and flexing hard on my boss.  7mo later and they still haven't found a replacement for me, I work as an independent contractor two days a week doing way less work but get paid twice as much....and get paid hourly.  This is they way.  Still have the same boss, btw, but the power dynamic is the exact opposite.

Haha this is #winning. Sorry for the two years of misery, but things worked out for you!!


PS- what car (car nerd is curious)

Yeah it's one of those life lessons.  No amount of money is worth wasting time with serious depression or anxiety. 

Car is a 2021 NSX.  Boss drives a Chevy Bolt.  I love to park next to him whenever I get the chance.  He still begs me to work more hours. 

[markbike528CBX]

I limped along for about 2yrs at work and ultimately developed depression, anxiety and terrible insomnia.  20/20 if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't have wasted those two years of my life as a shell of my former self.  Finally last October I told my boss to fuck himself (literally I said that) and resigned and spent the rest of my days driving a supercar to work and flexing hard on my boss.  7mo later and they still haven't found a replacement for me, I work as an independent contractor two days a week doing way less work but get paid twice as much....and get paid hourly.  This is they way.  Still have the same boss, btw, but the power dynamic is the exact opposite.

Haha this is #winning. Sorry for the two years of misery, but things worked out for you!!

PS- what car (car nerd is curious)

Yeah it's one of those life lessons.  No amount of money is worth wasting time with serious depression or anxiety. 

Car is a 2021 NSX.  Boss drives a Chevy Bolt.  I love to park next to him whenever I get the chance.  He still begs me to work more hours.

Empty Shells - Mudhoney might be a ironic celebration song for you now.

[Steeze]

For me these feelings come and go -

Years 1-3 were great, worked a ton of overtime, learned something new everyday, became an expert in my field, and moved up through the ranks. Year 4 was a slog wanting to quit everyday, feeling of repetitiveness, not learning anything new, just wasting time. Year 5 was a slog but I got into a hobby outside of work that kept my focus, started leaving at 5 to go do the hobby. Year 6 was a blur with a baby, barely awake, wanted to quit every day.. just felt burned out and close to death.

Year 7 is going well, I’m currently taking over management of the other half of the business and am finding a renewed interest in overhauling and optimizing the work flow (new job feeling?). I’m actually happy that I stuck it out long enough to get involved in the other side, and am in a place where I can finally give up most of the project management I was doing and focus just on management.

Anyway that is all just to say that it can ebb and flow. Hope you can find something at work to get your flow back, or that your novels can start paying the bills enough to make the jump eventually. I will say that you are your own worst critic, probably hard on yourself for not doing your best work and giving it your all - in reality no one notices. I still got promoted and big bonuses regardless of my own personal assessment.

For now I am looking forward to the next few months, beyond that I am not sure. Hopefully when the inevitable slog returns I am close enough to FI that I can make it through until the end. I’m leanFI in 3 years at the current pace. Just need to make it 3 years...

[clarkfan1979]

After years being on this site for years, trying to convince myself or otherwise "crunch the numbers" to conclude that I could 'soon' shift from working as a FT lawyer to working FT as a novelist, I recently slapped myself in the face and said sternly (to myself), "Nick, at this rate, you have FIVE more years, bare minimum, of working as a lawyer before FIRE is even possible!"

Anyway, I go to work everyday, I do 'fine', I even earned bonuses in the past two months. But my passion is gone. I don't get excited about cases, I don't excited about networking, I don't get excited about fighting with insurance companies. At the end of each day, I just want to go home, hang with the fam, and work on a novel. And I think about 'writing stuff' ALLLLL day long at work; my current book, my next book, my next series, which conferences I will attend, which writers I want to network with, etc. A large percentage of my brain activity is devoted to that stuff. Very little is devoted to my law job. I now view novelists, not lawyers, as "my people."

Who else is limping along at work? Is anyone else constantly daydreaming about 'greener grass', whether that's straight-up FIRE, a more fun job, or just more $ to earn yourself more freedom generally speaking? How do you address such thoughts? Do  you have any games or mental exercises that you play with yourself to pass the time, something the equivalent of a paper chain, or does tracking something still so far off just tend to drive a person crazy?

Is it perhaps a badly kept secret that a LOT of people are coasting/phoning it in?

I am a high performer, but my work input is pretty low.

I've been coasting at my job for the past 10 years* and plan to do it for another 28 years. I teach full-time at a community college. My first 5 years out of grad school involved prep time for new courses and creating systems to simplify everything. I treat my job like a business with systems for everything. I do make some small tweaks each semester, but each semester is about the same routine. I've taught the same courses for so many years now, I don't prep for class anymore. I just show up and start lecturing. Things remain fresh because I get new students every semester and the applied examples change based on current events. My job is very easy.

This might not be a realistic analogy, but imagine a high performing lawyer that works 60 hours/week and makes 250K/year. They get burned out and decide to quit and take a job at an environmental non-profit in which they get to pursue their passion. They work 30 hours/week and make 100K/year and the organization is thrilled to have them. This is why I teach at a community college.     

*Right after COVID-19 hit, the last 8 weeks to finish the spring 2020 was not coasting and was not fun. I had to create a bunch of on-line resources in a short amount of time. I was working 50-60 hour weeks during those 8 weeks. It sucked for me, because I hadn't done that in a long time. However, now I get to recycle those on-line resources and my current job obligation has decreased.

[BeanCounter]

I limped along for about 2yrs at work and ultimately developed depression, anxiety and terrible insomnia.  20/20 if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't have wasted those two years of my life as a shell of my former self.  Finally last October I told my boss to fuck himself (literally I said that) and resigned and spent the rest of my days driving a supercar to work and flexing hard on my boss.  7mo later and they still haven't found a replacement for me, I work as an independent contractor two days a week doing way less work but get paid twice as much....and get paid hourly.  This is they way.  Still have the same boss, btw, but the power dynamic is the exact opposite.

ME TOO!!!

In early 2020 I was crispy, totally burnt out but coasting and planning to FIRE. Then the pandemic hit and I was working from home with kids home and online school and all that. They started furloughing people. I asked to be furloughed as I was not only burnt out but dealing with all the extra work at home. They refused and had me furlough my younger staff and I was supposed to take on their work, increasing my work load (while still having kids at home in online "school". Then I found out they weren't going to give bonuses for 2020. So I quit. Well first I asked to go part time, but they said no. So I gave 4 weeks notice and helped them train replacement staff.
Eight months later they called me back asked me what I could work and how much would it cost. I said 15 hours per week and triple my former rate. And they took that deal.
Stupid.

I've worked that contract for a year and I've decided not to sign another one. There was a reason I left. There was a reason I was burnt out.
OP-
If you are feeling this way, I really think it's best to find another job. It's not that you don't want to work at all. You just need a change. Find something part time or less demanding and work ten years instead of the five as an attorney. Trust me you'll feel better.

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

The idea that you can or should find fulfillment at work is stupid.  Sorry for the blunt language.  But it's a trap set up by society and I see a lot of smart people fall into it.  In fact the whole "do what you love" for a career is seriously bad advice, IMO.  It's a trap in 2 dimensions. 

Best Case Scenario:
The best you can hope for is to try to make it in your field that you love and you fail.  It sucks because you have to live with the fact that you tried your best but your weren't good enough.  That's pretty bad.  But, IMO, it's not nearly as bad as the worst case scenario, which is what happens if you succeed in making a career.


Worst Case Scenario:
You get a job in a field you love.  It seems great for a while.  But then you want to take a break from this thing you 'love' but you can't because your bills, mortgage, savings, your entire life now depend upon this job/career.  Congrats,  you've just converted your 'love' into a ball and chain.  You will eventually lose your passion and feel like a fake.  And an ungrateful fake at that.


My advice?  Get a job that you don't hate, that you are good at and that pays you a ton of money.  Focus on doing good, quality work.  Take pride in the quality you deliver.  Don't 'identify' yourself with your job or career.  Understand that it's just a job and it's really only there to generate money for you.  Try to make it as pleasant and un-stressful as possible.  This is the path to actual job satisfaction.

+1

This is something people and especially young adults about to go into the work force need to understand. No one loves their job all the time. The only people that come close are ones that work very few hours. I have yet to find anyone who worked a 40 hour a week job for greater than 10 years that didn't have parts they didn't like and if they won the lottery, at least, wouldn't do things somewhat differently. Maybe there are a few exceptions, but it's rare. Great jobs get old. Good management goes downhill. You just get tired of the grind and want something new or to be able to take a break. It's reality. That's the huge benefit of FI. You can get independence - quit for a sabbatical, retire early, be fully able to say no to all the BS and improve your job, etc. Being dependent on an 8-5 job is going to suck. So, my advice is find a job that gets you as much money as possible that you do get some satisfaction some. By all means, don't get jobs you hate or leave jobs if you have them and start to hate them. I've left multiple times for less money to get more job satisfaction. Pursue what you love. But don't look for a unicorn that perfectly matches some dream that you feel would be exactly what you need to do and never make a decent living in the process. It's not worth it.