Author Topic: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed  (Read 2610 times)

chasingsnow

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Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« on: December 01, 2022, 11:00:14 AM »
LONG POST ON INHERITANCE DRAMA
I've talked briefly about this before in my journal but here comes a long-winded post on inheritance drama I am looking for some solutions on:

Back in 2017 my grandmother (my step dads mom) died and left behind a very large estate (my guess is around $5million dollars). My mom and step dad decided in 2018 that me and my four siblings would share in this estate and we would each receive $200k. They made it clear this was the only money we would ever receive from them and that they wanted to do it now so that would have certain opportunities they didn't (graduate school, opportunity to enter the housing market etc). They also had what I believe to be a fair argument that inheriting money from them when they die in 30 years time wouldnt do us much good as we would already be financially well off.

For the most part, since recieving this news in 2018, Ive tried to largely operate as though this money hasnt existed. Ive worked hard to bolster my own savings, and by the time I turn 30 in roughly 1 year from now, I will have saved $100k of my own money and Little S will have saved $50k (she will only be 27). I have withdrawn $5k to help me pay for graduate school, and $10k to purchase the Delica. So I have roughly $185k remaining.

The thing that is challenging is that this money has only really been "earmarked" for each of us. Right now it sits in a larger pot of family money of that roughly larger $5 million dollars. My step dad (who I have a tenious relationship with at best) has always cited that the fund does better with all the money in one pot, and cites large amounts of capital gains and income tax every time money is withdrawn from the fund. Ive looked into it, and he isn't necessarily wrong that they incur capital gains tax every time they have to sell an asset and liquidate it to provide us with cash, and they do pay income tax when withdrawing it from say an RRSP.

It's very much fair to say though that this dynamic is increasingly the point of frustration in an already tenuous relationship with step dad. It feels to me at least mildly patronizing and paternalistic that every time I want access to these funds for money that is meant to be "mine" I have to chase after him for it and it normally takes longer than I would like. I would also describe stepdad as cheap versus frugal and one of the reasons why our relationship is so tenuous is he always seems so damn transactional. So in the spirit of this tenuous relationship and that the current system didn't seem to be working for either party, I proposed the initiation of transferring the funds into my name.

The agreement we came to in the fall between my mom and step dad was that we would fill the rest of my taxable accounts (RRSP & TFSA) with the roughly $65k of room remaining in the next couple of months and transfer the additional $120k over the next couple of years as more room in the taxable accounts become available. The idea behind this was it would decrease capital gains and the income tax they paid to withdraw funds, and also allow me to tax shelter the assets.

Little S and I (when we were already thinking of buying a house) decided we would pencil in $20k for the CRV from the inlaws, and spend the remaining $45k on a house down payment sometime between now and the spring, knowing we would supplement the remaining $$ to fund a downpayment beyond that $45k.

In the last couple of days, I have been emailing back and forth with stepdad (he has the communication skills of a 6-year-old). His idea was for me to open tax-sheltered accounts through the big bank they use and get hooked up with their investment advisor. I humored him and took the meeting with the investment advisor. Needless to say, investing with him was a fool's errand, he charges a 3% fee for starters and he seemed generally to not have a good value investing strategy (among other things). Step dad expressed disappoint with me not choosing to work with his investment advisor as he thought it would be the easiest way to transfer funds over.

I ended up just giving him a wire transfer form for him to transfer large amounts of cash for a small fee. He is set to deposit $20k in the next couple of days which I will be sticking in a savings account (4.5% promo rate) and we will use that cash towards a CRV.

In my last email to him, I tried to clearly spell out an summarize our fall conversation on what we had discussed about the gradual transferring of money over time. Step dad came back basically citing that his portfolio through his investment advisor is down well over 20% and he is very anxious about their short-term financial health. He went on to say that he will basically transfer the money when it makes sense for them to do so and was reluctant to give me a timeline.

I found this incredibly frustrating, its meant to be money for each of us, and it's meant to be a gift. His reluctance to provide a timeline isn't super compatible with us trying to buy a house in the next few months. We could do it ourselves and then just get that money back later whenever it works for him to transfer it, but I feel really annoyed by this dynamic of having to use him as some sort of a "broker".

At this point, I feel so frustrated Little S and I are ready to just go back to doing it ourselves and pretending like this money didn't exist in the first place. Its been notoriously difficult to access and it seems to be eroding the personal relationship I have with both my mom and my step dad, which I care much more about than this money issue.

I'm feeling unsure about where to go from here, I feel like I have communicated clearly what we discussed, and provided rationale and explanation for WHY we need the money when we need it (house and CRV) and it feels like he responded with some version of "ill do it when its convenient for me". It's incredibly vexatious. What would you do in this situation? Is there something I am missing?

BNgarden

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Re: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2022, 11:28:18 AM »
If nothing is in writing, I'd treat the funds received to date as all the funds I was going to receive.  I'd go quiet on the agreed upon tranche value, timing and uses, and see if something happens in the future.  But I'd not count on it, given what you've said about his responses and the topic's impact on family relationships, which you say count for more.

Of course, YMMV and you have much more information than an internet stranger.

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2022, 11:44:17 AM »
I would not expect or count on the money until it was in my account, and not bring it up again unless the conversation was initiated by either my mom or step dad.

It's great that they said they would give you part of the step dad's inheritance. But, a lot may change (or, already has, with the financial market), & it's ultimately his/their money to choose what to do with it, how to distribute it, etc.

« Last Edit: December 01, 2022, 12:01:03 PM by MaybeBabyMustache »

Laura33

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Re: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2022, 11:52:18 AM »
At this point, I feel so frustrated Little S and I are ready to just go back to doing it ourselves and pretending like this money didn't exist in the first place. Its been notoriously difficult to access and it seems to be eroding the personal relationship I have with both my mom and my step dad, which I care much more about than this money issue.

Do this.  Your stepdad's mom left the money to him, not you.  Therefore, no matter what he and your mom may have said, it's his money, and he can choose what, where, when, and how much to pass along. 

Of course you are upset, and you have every right to be.  He made promises, and you relied on those promises in making plans about your own life.  He is now reneging on those promises, without actually acknowledging that he's reneging.  That is enraging and crazy-making.  But there's not a damn thing you can do to make him stick by his earlier word, or force him to behave differently in the future.  He has shown you who he is, and expecting him to miraculously "get it" and change is only going to hurt you.  So the best you can do is accept that what you see is what you're going to get, and to therefore remove yourself from the situation. 

IOW, make your own plans based on what is within your control, and stop giving him the power to determine how you run your own life.  You and Little S are clearly doing great without a penny from him, so stop letting him yank your chain and go live your life. 

Tester

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Re: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2022, 12:01:04 PM »
As the other responses until now: do not plan on that money. Only plan with your money. If you will get the extra fine, if not fine.
I would not raise the issue again, just pretend you did not hear about the 200k.

Captain FIRE

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Re: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2022, 12:27:52 PM »
Yep, chiming in to agree on not planning on it or bringing it up. It's not your money and you can't control how/when/if he'll give it to you.

DH's dad told him he planned to give each kid $X. This was an unexpected surprise. Then it came out he wanted to give X over 4-5 years. Ok. Then it got delayed some because of the markets. At this point, I honestly could not tell you how much he's given (although I probably should know that) and how much remains to be given from the promise, because we've completely put it out of our minds.  It's a very pleasant surprise if we get a check, but it's not something we plan on, think about, or discuss. He's also made noise about contributing to the kids 529s, which is awesome, but we're superfunding them to maximize the tax deferred growth.  It's maybe been two years since those comments, and we'll be done funding one shortly.  Did we tell him that, so we could better plan?  No, nor have we reminded him. If he gives something after it's funded it can go to grad school or worst case scenario we can take the 10% hit to withdraw funds. If he doesn't give anything, we won't have relied on the promise to our detriment.

midweststache

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Re: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2022, 01:04:59 PM »
...t this point, I feel so frustrated Little S and I are ready to just go back to doing it ourselves and pretending like this money didn't exist in the first place...

Do this. If you need to close out communication - you mentioned a recent email exchange with your stepdad - simply say that you realize their timeline for distributing these funds has changed and that you'll consider the matter tabled until they indicate otherwise. (Depending on their capacity for shortness and brevity, perhaps word it a little nicer.)

And then do not account for a single additional cent in your FIRE plans. As others have said, the money was inherited by your parents and while they may have promised you part of it, that's an empty promise until it's in the bank.

You say your relationship with your mom and stepdad is more important than the money, so let it be. Pretend like the inheritance doesn't exist, and if they bring it up smile, nod, and keep silent (unless your stepdad is asking you for banking information to transfer funds).

chasingsnow

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Re: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2022, 02:30:42 PM »
Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses and feedback. The consensus seems to be pretty in line with what we were already thinking which is resume planning like it didn't exist and if it comes in great, if not, we will figure out a way to make it work ourselves in terms of buying a house, in laws CRV, etc.

chemistk

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Re: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2022, 06:01:14 AM »
Another possible avenue - assuming that you keep the mindset you have and that others here have reinforced, why not propose to your stepdad the option of cashing out your funds now less any taxes and fees incurred to do so? Any sum of money beyond what you've already received is better than none at all.

Along those same lines, why not take him up on the investment advisor avenue and then slowly draw down the funds out of that account? Sure you'll lose a good chunk of the money, but that money is also going to be earning the same returns and incurring the same losses as the larger portfolio, but just with your name on the account instead of his. You could then at least be up front with the advisor about your intentions to use the money in the near term and that you want the asset allocation to be commensurately conservative. 

Both of the above options would humor him, and you'd be getting most of the promised money. But if neither sounds like a realistic avenue, then perhaps it might be best to state your intentions now about the down payment, giving him time to plan the best course of withdrawal for those funds. After that, it might be a good idea to let him know that you will not be asking for any more money because you do not agree with the terms of the arrangement.

Captain FIRE

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Re: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2022, 08:18:27 AM »
After that, it might be a good idea to let him know that you will not be asking for any more money because you do not agree with the terms of the arrangement.

This seems unnecessarily antagonistic tone. I'd suggest a more moderate approach if you feel the need to say something further about the undelivered promise.

chasingsnow

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Re: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2022, 10:43:23 AM »
I had a very good talk with my mom last night about the matter, I reiterated that it is in fact NOT my money, and that we would start to make plans without it in mind. She seemed to assure me that step dad would make good on his agreement to transfer it over, but I am not going to broach the topic any further. If it happens, great, if not, I am proud of how far we have made it on our own.

achvfi

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Re: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2022, 12:56:04 PM »
I had a very good talk with my mom last night about the matter, I reiterated that it is in fact NOT my money, and that we would start to make plans without it in mind. She seemed to assure me that step dad would make good on his agreement to transfer it over, but I am not going to broach the topic any further. If it happens, great, if not, I am proud of how far we have made it on our own.
Good way to handle it.

It seems to me that your step dad was being very generous with thought of giving your all money earlier than later. But in practice didn't understand in real terms what that means, taxes etc. To be fair selling that large amount of investments and paying tax in dollar terms can give a pause to anyone. My suggestion is to understand their position and have patience.


mistymoney

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Re: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2022, 01:21:29 PM »
At this point, I feel so frustrated Little S and I are ready to just go back to doing it ourselves and pretending like this money didn't exist in the first place. Its been notoriously difficult to access and it seems to be eroding the personal relationship I have with both my mom and my step dad, which I care much more about than this money issue.

Do this.  Your stepdad's mom left the money to him, not you.  Therefore, no matter what he and your mom may have said, it's his money, and he can choose what, where, when, and how much to pass along. 

Of course you are upset, and you have every right to be.  He made promises, and you relied on those promises in making plans about your own life.  He is now reneging on those promises, without actually acknowledging that he's reneging.  That is enraging and crazy-making.  But there's not a damn thing you can do to make him stick by his earlier word, or force him to behave differently in the future.  He has shown you who he is, and expecting him to miraculously "get it" and change is only going to hurt you.  So the best you can do is accept that what you see is what you're going to get, and to therefore remove yourself from the situation. 

IOW, make your own plans based on what is within your control, and stop giving him the power to determine how you run your own life.  You and Little S are clearly doing great without a penny from him, so stop letting him yank your chain and go live your life.

Yeah - when it was mentioned the gifting was occurring in 2018, I was like what is the problem - isn't it all in your name? and no, he is keeping it???

This was clearly a way to continue to "parent" you all well intod adult. Consciously or unconsciously on your step dads part it is a measure of control where you have to go to him about money to use it for major purchases.

I would just continue my life with my plans and not ask again. Buy the house, Buy the CVR, keep smiling and focus on the emotional relationship side as an adult who is not asking for money.

mistymoney

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Re: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2022, 01:25:51 PM »
I had a very good talk with my mom last night about the matter, I reiterated that it is in fact NOT my money, and that we would start to make plans without it in mind. She seemed to assure me that step dad would make good on his agreement to transfer it over, but I am not going to broach the topic any further. If it happens, great, if not, I am proud of how far we have made it on our own.

sounds like the way to go

darknight

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Re: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2022, 08:05:04 PM »
I had a very good talk with my mom last night about the matter, I reiterated that it is in fact NOT my money, and that we would start to make plans without it in mind. She seemed to assure me that step dad would make good on his agreement to transfer it over, but I am not going to broach the topic any further. If it happens, great, if not, I am proud of how far we have made it on our own.

Great job on getting where you are. In my mid 30's I'm still behind you and prior to 30 I was deep in debt. You'll be fine either way. I learned at a young age that splitting up inheritance (money or physical assets) among family can be quite nasty.

It's tough having family sit on the sidelines when they are more than capable of easing other family member's financial burdens. During our college and childbearing years we struggled HARD, while the family that "should" help out sat back and donated more than (at the time) our yearly income to their church of choice. At the end of the day, when it's not your money, it's best to step back and not count on it.

JupiterGreen

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Re: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2022, 06:59:29 AM »
I had a very good talk with my mom last night about the matter, I reiterated that it is in fact NOT my money, and that we would start to make plans without it in mind. She seemed to assure me that step dad would make good on his agreement to transfer it over, but I am not going to broach the topic any further. If it happens, great, if not, I am proud of how far we have made it on our own.

This is an excellent way to leave it, bravo/a

GilesMM

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Re: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2022, 08:05:27 AM »
I had a very good talk with my mom last night about the matter, I reiterated that it is in fact NOT my money, and that we would start to make plans without it in mind. She seemed to assure me that step dad would make good on his agreement to transfer it over, but I am not going to broach the topic any further. If it happens, great, if not, I am proud of how far we have made it on our own.

You are actually better off making your way on your own and being able to be proud of your own accomplishments rather than being supported with handouts (ie money you did nothing to earn).

Goldielocks

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Re: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2022, 05:28:43 PM »
Assuming the $5million was received by step dad, and he maxed out his and your mom's RRSP and TFSA room, it is highly unlikely that it fit into the RRSP.

-->So, a lot of it is in taxable accounts, and only subject to capital gains after 2018 when he received it.
That $200k is worth more than $200k now, even with a 20% drop in the markets.  So maybe some capital gains taxes, but ...

--> $200k grew to $311k on the Dow Jones between 2018 and 2021, then dropped 20% to $248k now (yikes)  Capital gains tax is only on the growth or $48k x 50% tax x 50% inclusion rate = $12k  = 6% of the original amount invested.

He is looking at withdrawing when the market is "down"  *yikes* and paying $12k on it in tax.   This is an emotional "feels" issue that is real for most of us when withdrawing.

If you want one last try to get the money out.

1.  Pivot it around the house purchase -- many frugal / cheap people will recognize a house purchase as a life event they want to support.

2. Offer to pay the capital gains tax on it out of your portion.   
As shown above it is likely much less than 10% of the original amount, if done "fairly".  Taken from the taxable account, of course, not the RRSP where they should be keeping their money as long as possible for tax reasons.

3. OR ask when they release money for one sibling, the others get the same amounts, to keep it easier for them to track.  SO.MUCH.EASIER.   

4.  And as always, assume that you won't get the money for another 40 years and drop it after one last talk. 

valsecito

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Re: Inheritance Drama- Advice Needed
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2022, 11:28:15 AM »
This kind of story can be tricky and even painful. Here's mine.

I was single, frugally saving for a place of my own for several years. I had my eyes set on something easily within my budget, except for the down payment. Down payments here are usually 20%, plus at that time ~13% one way transaction cost. Saving for a third of a home price takes time when single. This was during an era of very rapid price increases, so I had been chasing the market for a few years already, falling behind the price rises despite saving dilligently.

So I carefully asked my parents if they would be able and willing to advance me ~25k€ of the down payment/transaction cost. I carefully prepared my case. I took them to an independent financial advisor to explain what this was about. They told me that they couldn't do this. I respected that.

Three months later, another sibling, with zero savings, who had never worked before, asked for 50k€ so he could buy a house. They agreed. He went living there for a few months, then back to living at my parents for another 10(!) years.

Five years later, real estate prices had more than doubled where I live. I had worked insanely hard, living in student housing and combining two jobs, and finally saved up enough. My parents had realised getting your own place is harder than they thought and offered to advance me 25k€. That was nice.

Years later, my mother told me she was actually scared my sibling might have been suicidal when he asked to advance him his home deposit. That was her reason for agreeing to lending him the money. She also added he hadn't been suicidal, but that her fear had been real.

Fast forward to today. The problematic sibling has been doing well for himself, by combining hard work and milking people, especially my parents, for all they are worth.

My parents are getting older. I loathe the day when my other sibling and I will have to hire a lawyer to deal with fighting the problematic sibling over my parents' inheritance.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!