Author Topic: I opened an ABLE account and could use some help  (Read 2940 times)

Wag

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I opened an ABLE account and could use some help
« on: June 20, 2017, 07:51:20 PM »
I was diagnosed with the disability before the age of 26 and since they just started offering ABLE accounts in MA I decided to open one up with Fidelity.

I don't really understand the rules and the Fidelity people weren't of much help because it's so new. Along with the ABLE account I opened a Cash Mgt account so I could access the money.

The rules seem very vague as to what I can exactly spend the money on. Essentially it says I can spend it on anything that "improves the quality" of my life. Can I use it to pay rent? Utilities? Food? Car expenses? I don't want to effect my disability so I'm not exactly sure.

I understand ABLE accounts are very new to the US and only ~10k people have them, but I wish I had a more specific guideline on what I can spend the money on so I don't get penalized by the IRS at the end of the year.

terran

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Re: I opened an ABLE account and could use some help
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2017, 08:47:41 PM »
I THINK the rules are pretty much the same as a special needs trust, so you might find more info based on that.

As far as I know, you can't use them for things SSI is intended to pay for which is basically food and housing. So food, rent, electric/gas/etc wouldn't be allowed. On the other hand non-housing utilities like internet or phone should be fine, as should car expenses.

Wag

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Re: I opened an ABLE account and could use some help
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2017, 10:29:32 PM »
I THINK the rules are pretty much the same as a special needs trust, so you might find more info based on that.

As far as I know, you can't use them for things SSI is intended to pay for which is basically food and housing. So food, rent, electric/gas/etc wouldn't be allowed. On the other hand non-housing utilities like internet or phone should be fine, as should car expenses.

I spoke to someone at Fidelity today who was supposedly knowledgeable about ABLE and he told me I could pay for rent, utilities, food, etc with it.

This is why I'm so confused. Nobody can seem to give me a straight answer and there are no guidelines from Social Security as to what are allowed expenses.

I have money in the account now but I'm afraid to use it.

catccc

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Re: I opened an ABLE account and could use some help
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2017, 11:22:54 AM »
Would info from this site help?
http://www.ablenrc.org/about/what-are-able-accounts
There are videos of webinars, FAQs, other resources.

This is what it says about qualified expenses, which, honestly, leaves a little room for interpretation IMO.
Which expenses are allowed by ABLE accounts?
A "qualified disability expense" means any expense related to the designated beneficiary as a result of living a life with disabilities. These may include education, housing, transportation, employment training and support, assistive technology, personal support services, health care expenses, financial management and administrative services and other expenses which help improve health, independence, and/or quality of life.


I have looked into the accounts a bit for my disabled brother (quadriplegic at 17) but we have yet to decide anything or open one.  The main reason we want to do it is because of the rules around social security benefits that basically don't allow him to have any substantial savings.

Wag

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Re: I opened an ABLE account and could use some help
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2017, 05:07:16 PM »
Would info from this site help?
http://www.ablenrc.org/about/what-are-able-accounts
There are videos of webinars, FAQs, other resources.

This is what it says about qualified expenses, which, honestly, leaves a little room for interpretation IMO.
Which expenses are allowed by ABLE accounts?
A "qualified disability expense" means any expense related to the designated beneficiary as a result of living a life with disabilities. These may include education, housing, transportation, employment training and support, assistive technology, personal support services, health care expenses, financial management and administrative services and other expenses which help improve health, independence, and/or quality of life.


I have looked into the accounts a bit for my disabled brother (quadriplegic at 17) but we have yet to decide anything or open one.  The main reason we want to do it is because of the rules around social security benefits that basically don't allow him to have any substantial savings.

Believe me, I already saw that, as well as what's been posted on Fidelity's website but it's very vague. For example:

https://www.fidelity.com/able/attainable/using-your-account#

Quote
What are "qualified disability expenses"?

Qualified disability expenses are any expenses for the benefit of the account owner in maintaining or improving his or her health, independence, or quality of life. These expenses include, but are not limited to, education, housing, transportation, employment, training and support, assistive technologies and related services, personal support services, or health and basic living expenses.

Notice how it says "these expenses include, but are not limited to". What the hell does that mean?!?! When someone at Fidelity says I can use it for rent, food and utilities, and then a financial adviser tells me otherwise I'm at a loss. The Fidelity guy even told me I could use it for cable and phone  (I have my doubts).

Also this:

https://www.fidelity.com/able/attainable/using-your-account#

Quote
The Social Security Administration has stated that for many qualified disability expenses, you don't need to spend the money in the same month in which you withdraw it from your Attainable account. If you choose to do that, you must maintain the Attainable account while the withdrawal is not spent, be able to identify the money, and intend to use the money for a qualified disability expense.

However, for housing related expenses, you must spend the money on the housing expense in the same calendar month in which you withdraw it from your Attainable account. If these conditions aren't met, the withdrawal may be counted as a resource and could impact SSI benefits.
After the money has been withdrawn (but before it's spent), you can maintain the money in separate account such as a personal checking account or a Fidelity Cash Management Account.

If I take out $1000k out of the account and only $550 is for rent, how do they know which money I used is for rent? This is where it gets confusing- doesn't SSI require I use the money out of my disability for rent first otherwise it's considered "in kind" support? According to Fidelity that's not the case with ABLE- I can use either. Also makes no sense.

Seriously, there needs to be a detailed list of exactly what expenses are covered. I'm sure come the end of the year the IRS and SSA will be more exacting than what I've found so far.

catccc

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Re: I opened an ABLE account and could use some help
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2017, 06:22:24 AM »
"include, but not limited to" sounds like "all these things and more!"  I think between this and the ABLE NRC, I would conclude that you can use it on housing, utilities, etc.   I also would trust Fidelity over a financial advisor.  I might call Fidelity again and see if the rep you get gives you the same answer as the first one.

Wag

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Re: I opened an ABLE account and could use some help
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2017, 11:51:23 AM »
"include, but not limited to" sounds like "all these things and more!"  I think between this and the ABLE NRC, I would conclude that you can use it on housing, utilities, etc.   I also would trust Fidelity over a financial advisor.  I might call Fidelity again and see if the rep you get gives you the same answer as the first one.

Supposedly I spoke to someone at Fidelity who was very knowledgeable about the ABLE plan, so I don't think I can do much better. Essentially I am not even getting SSI right now because I didn't pay enough rent. My parents are my landlord and the condo I live in is in a special needs trust set up for me in their name. I started to work a couple of years ago and after 20+ yrs of living at my current address the SSA took a closer look at me. They decided I owed them >$200mos for 2yrs. So I could have earned more by not working. I'm afraid to go down there and ask them questions because every time I do my situation gets worse.

Anyways, this is why I want to make sure I get it right and at the end of the year I don't take an even bigger hit for using my ABLE account.