Author Topic: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future  (Read 2813 times)

newbie

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Hello - I need advice.  My son is heading to college in the fall and has applied an been accepted at two schools.  Both have offered him an athletic scholarship.  One school is a state school and the scholarship will make school very affordable, the other is a private school and the scholarship helps, but the costs to attend will still be high.  We have about 120K saved for his education.  If he chooses the state school and does his sport 4 or 5 years, there could still be 60K left.  With the other option, he could have 60k in student loans and if he decided not to do the sport all 4 years, the loans would be much higher.  I know the choice to us adults is very obvious, but how do parents guide a young person to make decisions that will be to their benefit in the future without making it seem like the choice was made for them? 

Should we tell him the dollar amount we have saved so that he can know he may have a chunk of money upon graduation, or that he will have to make up the difference in loans?
Do we just say we will pay for 4 years of a state school and keep the amount we have saved vague, but make the need for loans at the private school known?

We both grew up in families that didn't talk about money, and we have done better about sharing our values - the kids know we save, tithe, and that we don't splurge on a lot of things many others do (cars, phones, clothes, etc.).  I just don't know how fully transparent we should be.

Thank you in advance.

charis

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2023, 06:59:15 AM »
I have younger kids with 529 accounts.  I have already told them, my oldest mainly, that if they get scholarships that reduce the need for the 529 $$ and there is $ left over for that reason, they will be able to put it toward something else.  It won't be a large amount, less then what you are looking at, but if they get a scholarship at a state school, there will likely be something left.  I have not revealed any exact amounts, it's been very vague at this point. 

We do talk about saving and investing, and the fact that we don't have to worry about money for that reason, but make it clear that our money is allocated for things that are important to the family, including college, retirement, medical care, etc, and it doesn't make us "rich."

Omy

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2023, 07:13:31 AM »
I don't have kids (so take everything I say with a grain of salt), but I would lay it out like you did without making the choice for him...or making it obvious which you think is the better decision.

It's not obvious (to this adult) what the *right* answer is. Would the private school open more and better opportunities in his field? Are there other good reasons to choose the private school over the state school?

My parents told me they would cover room and board for a state school (I had a merit scholarship for free tuition if I stayed in state), but I needed to cover books and entertainment. With these expectations set, I knew that I would have to work summers, but I wouldn't need to work during the school year....and I wouldn't have to pay student loans at the end.

If I wanted to go out of state, they would have contributed the same amount, but I would have had to pick up everything else. I made the decision you would have, because I'm frugal and the state school had a good reputation for my field of study. But the choice could have been very different if I'd had strong reasons to go to a different school.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 10:25:37 AM by Omy »

SweatingInAR

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2023, 07:54:38 AM »
We don't have enough information to know which is the obvious choice!
Do they have a degree program in mind?
Will one university be better than the other for their intended degree?
Do they expect to go on to get a degree after Bachelors?
Will their intended career pay "well enough" to make the cost difference less important?

Ultimately, though:
If there is money left over, is it "their" money or "your" money?

Here's how it worked for me:
In 2006, my parents said I had a $40k fund that they hoped I would use for college. They still operated the account until after I graduated when they gave the login information to me.

chrisgermany

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2023, 08:12:00 AM »
As it is an athletic scholarship: will there be enough time left to study his other subjects?
What happens should he get hurt or otherwise not able to perform his sport as expected during his time in college?
He needs a plan B IMHO.

newbie

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2023, 08:36:56 AM »
Thank you for the thoughtful replies so far.  I should mention that he doesn't have a specific idea of what he wants to study, he says "business."  This makes us (parents) feel like the state school is a better fit financially because he isn't passionate about a career, and also has more options for broader studies because it is a large school.  He likes the location/town of the private school.  He also likes the smaller classes the private school has and felt he connected better with the other athletes when he did his visit.  So he does have good reasons for keeping this school as an option. 
I just know how heavy the burden of debt can be and want to help him avoid that.  So my view is biased this way.  I appreciate people taking the time to weigh in and suggest ideas.


Laura33

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2023, 08:37:16 AM »
I think you do the math and talk through the consequences with him.  Graduating with no debt is a huge advantage to be able to give your kid. But to an 18-yr-old, that feels very amorphous and vague.  Can you map out first what he can do with the extra $60K from the state school and then what the loan payments would be from the private option? 

But also, what are the degree options at each place and effects on potential job or postgrad options?  Does one school make it more likely than another that he'll be able to graduate in 4 years?  (My nearby public is infamous for not having enough class offerings to get kids what they need to graduate on time -- and adding extra years in school can certainly increase the cost beyond what a 4-years-to-4-years comparison)

Also, which school is the best fit for your kid -- and how important is that?  I have one kid who would be fine at a big public and one special snowflake who needed the extra handholding of a smaller school; for her, I forked over far more than I ever planned because she needed that support to fledge. (it paid off, btw -- one semester left, engineering major, A average, job offer in hand)

Finally, consider the difference in the athletic program.  Is one more competitive than the other?  If he'd be a big fish in a small pond at one and a bench-warmer at the other, it may be worth chasing the experience of actually getting to play.  Also, if my kid were an athlete, I'd actually tend to veer away from the top-level schools (unless my kid had a legit shot of going pro), because the physical, mental, and time demands would make it very, very difficult to do well in classes and graduate on-time.  Even at my DD's small school, a friend of hers who is both an engineering major and on the football team has now dropped a year behind, because once he got good enough to start, the demands of the sport were too much to stay on track with the academics. 

Oh, and second the need for a major backup plan.  He could get injured, he could decide he wants to drop the sport, he could get booted from the team -- all sorts of bad things can happen.  What is the school's policy if, say, he gets injured in a game and can't play?  Does the team honor the scholarship all 4 years, or is he on his own?  What does he do then?  Kids his age tend not to want to think about those things, because bad things only happen to other people.  But going through the analysis is a very important lesson -- you always, always need to cover your downside risk, no matter what that is.

IMO, the state school should be the default, unless there's a really good reason to justify the extra $$$.  But you should still do the full analysis so that you and he know that he's ultimately making the best decision for his circumstances. 

DadJokes

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2023, 08:50:37 AM »
Do you know anyone with student loans that you could encourage him to talk to?

That might sway him more than you could.

reeshau

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2023, 08:58:06 AM »
@newbie :  first, kudos to you for being open to having a conversation, and not laying down the law in term of choice of school or degree.

Like others have said, I don't think the choice is obvious.  I do think it's a mistake for him to make the choice based on vague feelings about the campuses through a visit.  I do think it's a good idea to be open with him about the resources you have, and the financial implications you see for both choices.  I also think it's a good idea to share that information as objectively as you can, and not share your opinion unless he asks for it.  It's time for him to be an adult, and if he has a short time to gain some analysis skills to make his first big adult decision, then that's what you're there for.

Does he have a job of any kind?  Does he or any of his friends have cars they have bought?  $60k may be a million dollars to a teenager, but if they have some frame of reference, you can use that to put the choice into some concrete terms.

In the end, given that you are providing significant funds, I think he owes you the courtesy of being able to explain his decision.  My hope is that needing to explain in some detail will lead him to thinking and researching about factors that are most important to him.  Maybe you will learn something in those discussions that can put you at peace with his decision, too.

This is just an internet idea.  Maybe your son isn't in a place where he will be able to make this decision, and needs more guidance.  But if that's the case, in four years he will really (hopefully) be out of your hands, and needs to get that skill somewhere.  He may also surprise you with his ability to adapt to the need; I'm sure a lot of his friends are facing similar decisions, and I bet they are talking about it.

Good luck on this milestone of life.

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2023, 09:06:10 AM »
I don't think the choice is obvious, based on the information presented so far. The athletics piece, and potential difference between athletic programs & a small school vs a big school could matter very much to your kid. It's hard to tell. I have one son who *may* qualify for a sports scholarship. He's been very clear that if that happened, he'd only want to  play at a way less competitive school (e.g. no D1 & the like). Why? Because he wants to actually play, not have there be so much pressure & to actually be able to enjoy college. We have zero hopes on a financial scholarship & would actually prefer he didn't play in college, unless he can fully demonstrate in high school that he can juggle both. Anyway, all that to say, I think the sports complicate the situation.

I bring my own biases to this discussion, as I gave up a full ride scholarship after a year, because the college was a terrible fit. I took out a few loans at the transfer school (also got a large scholarship, but not a full ride) & the school was a fantastic fit for me, & led me to my 25 year career, through mentoring & an internship. On paper, the full ride college was the obvious choice. Less out of pocket money, and way more prestigious. In reality, I was miserable.

Very much agree with Laura on how much any of the above matters to your son.

I think you should be very transparent with him about how much money you have for college, how much he will owe, etc. I'm a little surprised he didn't already know how much he had in his college account. While he was applying to schools & evaluating costs, that would have been a helpful time to have those conversations. Now that he's accepted & has an actual school in mind that he's toured, I can see why he's torn. Is it possible to walk through his future plans in terms of payments? Will he work summers, so he can avoid some loans? Maybe build a post college budget with him, so he can see the impact those student loans will have on his financial future?

Log

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2023, 10:06:28 AM »
I also go against the grain of this forum in being in favor of elite schooling.

Cheaper schooling is probably the strictly better option in fields like tech and engineering where good-paying jobs are abundant relative to the supply of qualified workers. These fields are over-represented in the MMM viewership, which biases the entire forum towards a viewpoint that college is about getting the credential and getting out.

In fields that are highly competitive, getting the best training you can is essential. The degree itself matters less than the skills you develop. In a vague “I don’t know what I want to do” situation, the connections you make at a more elite school are far more likely to drop an interesting career opportunity at your feet, and professors with smaller class-sizes are much more likely to take on a kind of personal mentorship role that can be life-changing. “You become the average of the people you associate with the most,” and all that. The relationships built at an elite school can change the trajectory of a life for the better.

$60k in student loans is not an insurmountable burden. Even with interest rates rising, student loans are still under 5%. On this forum we’re routinely talking about racing to $1M+ net worths in relatively short spans of time. Let’s keep a little student loan debt in perspective. This is an investment in his future earnings and life satisfaction.

Not saying the private school is necessarily the “better” choice, I just want to give you food for thought to counteract your initial impulse that it is the worse option.

In terms of addressing his career directionless, I would suggest Cal Newport’s book “So Good They Can’t Ignore You.”

charis

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2023, 10:55:43 AM »
I also go against the grain of this forum in being in favor of elite schooling.

Cheaper schooling is probably the strictly better option in fields like tech and engineering where good-paying jobs are abundant relative to the supply of qualified workers. These fields are over-represented in the MMM viewership, which biases the entire forum towards a viewpoint that college is about getting the credential and getting out.

In fields that are highly competitive, getting the best training you can is essential. The degree itself matters less than the skills you develop. In a vague “I don’t know what I want to do” situation, the connections you make at a more elite school are far more likely to drop an interesting career opportunity at your feet, and professors with smaller class-sizes are much more likely to take on a kind of personal mentorship role that can be life-changing. “You become the average of the people you associate with the most,” and all that. The relationships built at an elite school can change the trajectory of a life for the better.

$60k in student loans is not an insurmountable burden. Even with interest rates rising, student loans are still under 5%. On this forum we’re routinely talking about racing to $1M+ net worths in relatively short spans of time. Let’s keep a little student loan debt in perspective. This is an investment in his future earnings and life satisfaction.

Not saying the private school is necessarily the “better” choice, I just want to give you food for thought to counteract your initial impulse that it is the worse option.

In terms of addressing his career directionless, I would suggest Cal Newport’s book “So Good They Can’t Ignore You.”

First, the majority of private schools are not "elite."  A well regarded state school is generally a better choice, status-wise and educationally, than a average or comparably good private school.  There is also evidence that elite schools (which the OP has not said is at issue here) are not worth the cost for undergraduate education, but become much more persuasive at the graduate level.  Also, for students planning to stay in the city or region of their state school after graduation, as opposed to relocating for a job in DC, NYC, Boston, etc, elite schools start to have much less cache and networking advantages.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 10:57:21 AM by charis »

jeninco

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2023, 10:59:14 AM »
I'm loving this discussion (since all the decisions have been made around here!). I partly agree with @Log, there are some real advantages to being at a smaller school even if you're in a tech-heavy major -- my older kid's fellow CS majors definitely have an advantage from the name on their degree. And the whole "you are the average of the people around you" point -- what kinds of friends do you think your kid will choose? Is he a "go with the flow" type, or is he selective about who his friends are?

What I think a lot of folks are saying is this: it depends on your kid. Is he both hyper-into his sport and super-academic? Then a high-pressure smaller school might be a good fit. Is he going to wind up at tons of parties and struggle to get to classes on Monday mornings? That big state school might not work out so well. Is he relatively self-motivated, and good about going to talk with his teachers now? The state school might work out really well -- Professors there will mostly LOVE it when students are motivated to come to them, rather than being passive consumers of lectures. Does he need a little more nudging to succeed? That may point to the smaller school being a better fit.

Captain FIRE

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2023, 11:06:55 AM »
I too don't think it's clear cut on which school.  As someone who took classes at a large state university and a small elite private college, I think there can be huge benefits to smaller classes. From your post it's not clear whether there is an academic caliber difference as well, improved networking, etc. My undergrad opened doors that the other school would not have done. Do kids have higher rates of employment 6 months out from graduation at one of the schools? Is one more highly regarded in the geographic area he wants to work afterwards? etc. (It's ok also to not know exactly what he wants to do at 18.)

I recommend that you be honest and transparent with him.  If you have a set amount of money saved, why NOT tell him that so he has all of the facts to make an informed decision?  Too often people feel financial matters need to be kept private, which can be a detriment (think sharing salaries).

I would also encourage you to not just make the appearance of letting him make the decision, but make the actual decision. (If you aren't going to let him make the decision and will withhold the money you've saved if he doesn't go to the school of your choice, own up to that.)

JupiterGreen

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2023, 12:03:44 PM »
Can he attend the public school to get his core courses done and then transfer to the private after sophomore year? I'm not sure how that would impact his athletic scholarship, but it may be worth looking into. Somebody brought this up, but I would not count on the scholarship beyond the first year it is being offered because many things could change like the other poster said his health, but also his desire to pursue a sport in college (very different than high school) could change, his grades could make him ineligible to continue the sport, the Universities ability to continue to offer the scholarship, the athletic department could go through a change (like changing divisions) etc.

If he attends the public college, does he get the 60k from you at the end? Let's say he attends public university, and then decides to spend that on unsavory things, how would that impact your desire to give him the money? Be clear about how the money is earmarked and/or if he will receive the extra money if he attends public. Ultimately, this is his life and I am on the side of giving him the information and letting him decide. However, you should set strong boundaries and lay out the financial facts including what happens to the college money (if there is extra) and how much you are willing to pay beyond whatever number you have already set aside (if any).

Be mindful that tuitions can change. Also depending on what private school this is, many smaller private colleges are closing because enrollment will be down for the next several years (based on number of births). Unless the private is an ivy, public colleges/universities (in decent states) are going to be a better bet overall for many reasons, the #1 reason is that unless you attend an ivy the name of the college/university you attend has zero to do with your ability to get a job unless it has a special networking/connection to the industry (and of course provided they have the facilities to teach the content needed for his degree). But also because of that enrollment issue I mentioned (that will be a factor until the last part of the 2020s) public colleges/universities will be a little safer from closing due to financials. Check out this blog to see a list of closings in the past 10 years https://collegehistorygarden.blogspot.com/2014/11/index-of-colleges-and-universities-that.html from the blog: "There are over 5,830 entries now in January 2023." That is a ton, but it does also include the mergers. Anyway, that's just another factor that you might want to research and also mention to your child.

One other thing I want to mention is there are a ton of students pursuing business and the market is flooded with business degrees. I believe this is because of the public attack on the liberal arts over the past 20 years (in politics and media). In the "old days" students spent their first year or so taking core classes that allowed them to take courses in a number of different areas. I highly recommend this method as he might find his interest elsewhere, he will also meet people who are different than him. This method of education is also how we develop critical thinking skills (and why we are now seeing a decline in that area). He may find his niche in the business school, but just a plug for him to take advantages of the array of courses that are being offered when he can find room in his schedule. I hope his major and whatever school he attends allows him to learn more about himself and the world beyond a narrow band of knowledge. The world also need fishermen, architects, musicians, teachers, authors etc. and a good life can be had with any degrees provided we understand the industry and the prospects to an extent (since this is always changing).

snic

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2023, 12:21:33 PM »
I think the big question is whether the private school offers anything of real value over the public school. There are a LOT of very expensive private colleges that don't add much value for their graduates compared to good public universities, in terms of employment numbers and/or grad/prof school acceptance etc. So objectively they are a waste of money if you get into the public school.

Objective numbers don't tell the whole story, though - some colleges are known for particular majors or fields of study, and the kid is passionate about that, then it makes sense. But from what the OP has said - kid with a vague interest in "business", and maybe not that interested in pursuing the sport as a career - I suspect that the private college would be a waste of money even if he feels a bit more comfortable with his teammates and the campus at the private school. That's not why he's going to college - he's going to get an education, and unless the private school gives him a BETTER EDUCATION, why waste the money? Seems like Mustachianism 101.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2023, 08:23:56 PM by snic »

mm1970

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2023, 01:21:44 PM »
$60k in loans comes out to approx $666 a month in loan payments for 10 years, or 15% of the average new college grad's salary.

Smokystache

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2023, 01:22:38 PM »
Lots of good comments and questions so far. One more thought. I was a professor at a small college for years. I cannot tell you how many of my students "thought" they had an athletic scholarship. As a D-III school, we literally could not give athletic scholarships. Perhaps you really know and this is just a warning for others, but be sure you know what the scholarship is tied to. Is it contingent upon staying in the sport and being on the team? Or is it really academically based and he needs to maintain a specific GPA?

Otherwise, while it is not for everyone, small private schools can be amazing. I knew every student by name and never taught a class with more than 30 students .... which means I literally emailed students who missed class more than once. My colleagues and I would have groups of students over to our houses for BBQs. I had students help me with research and have their names on posters at national research conferences ... and then I would write them detailed letters of recommendation for graduate programs. One possible way to think about this is that a small school could make it more likely for him to finish, more likely that he gets real mentoring from his professors, and he isn't focused on his sport year-round. If a small environment would help him figure out his goals and he makes $1,500/year more than he would have from the large school, he eats up the difference pretty fast.

These are tough decisions and there is no guarantee that things will be better at a smaller school, but my $.02 is that the differences are not as stark as one might think at first glance.

Catbert

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2023, 02:15:38 PM »
Yet another person who's telling you to look at which college is the best fit.  I'll tell a story for what it's worth.  A sort of relative has been accepted at a number of schools.  She's very good at a particular sport and wants to play in college but doesn't want an athletic scholarship because of all the pressures and problems others have outlined.  She's been offered a "full" merit based (non athletic) scholarship at a small private college.  She's very intrigued.  It's a gorgeous campus (at least in pictures) on the opposite coast in a big city and the coach really, really wants her.   Sounds perfect, right?  But...it's in one of the most HCOL cities in the US.  I'm not sure if her "full scholarship" pays for housing.  Google tells me the college accepts 80% of its applicants (so not very competitive) and the average GPA of those accepted is a full point below her average (3.4 vs 4.4).  She wants to go into a niche STEM field that you only really get specialized in at the Phd level.  Imho she needs to select a much more competitive school.  Not sure what she and her parents will decide.

clarkfan1979

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2023, 02:42:24 PM »
Hello - I need advice.  My son is heading to college in the fall and has applied an been accepted at two schools.  Both have offered him an athletic scholarship.  One school is a state school and the scholarship will make school very affordable, the other is a private school and the scholarship helps, but the costs to attend will still be high.  We have about 120K saved for his education.  If he chooses the state school and does his sport 4 or 5 years, there could still be 60K left.  With the other option, he could have 60k in student loans and if he decided not to do the sport all 4 years, the loans would be much higher.  I know the choice to us adults is very obvious, but how do parents guide a young person to make decisions that will be to their benefit in the future without making it seem like the choice was made for them? 

Should we tell him the dollar amount we have saved so that he can know he may have a chunk of money upon graduation, or that he will have to make up the difference in loans?
Do we just say we will pay for 4 years of a state school and keep the amount we have saved vague, but make the need for loans at the private school known?

We both grew up in families that didn't talk about money, and we have done better about sharing our values - the kids know we save, tithe, and that we don't splurge on a lot of things many others do (cars, phones, clothes, etc.).  I just don't know how fully transparent we should be.

Thank you in advance.

I sympathize with your situation. I teach community college in the state of Colorado. My son gets free tuition at any of the 13 community colleges in the state of Colorado, until he is 25 years old. Many of the community colleges now offer BA degrees. He could go to school for free for 5 years and double major, as long as it's one of the 13 on the list.

Knowing my luck, he will want to go to an expensive liberal arts college or a big party school that is out of state and we will have to discuss the difference of 50K/year of tuition vs. free tuition. I'm not looking forward to that discussion.

My wife grew up in Denver. She was accepted to CSU Fort Collins, but really wanted to go to the University of Oregon. Her parents said that she could go to the University of Oregon if she got scholarships that equaled the same cost of CSU Fort Collins. She applied to scholarships, but couldn't get the cost down enough to CSU Fort Collins. She felt like she got an honest chance at University of Oregon and was ok with going to CSU Fort Collins.

Tass

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2023, 03:04:48 PM »
When I was a college student making this decision, I remember having no concept at all of how much money was being discussed. This is partly because my parents, who talked a lot about good practices with money, rarely discussed dollar amounts. To me, $15k and $50k seemed equally unimaginably huge. So I would lay out the amount you have saved for him - particularly if you plan for that to be his money if there is some leftover - but also do your best to contextualize it if speaking in concrete terms is new to him. What will each outcome mean for his life after graduation?

lhamo

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2023, 04:05:39 PM »
Yet another person who's telling you to look at which college is the best fit.  I'll tell a story for what it's worth.  A sort of relative has been accepted at a number of schools.  She's very good at a particular sport and wants to play in college but doesn't want an athletic scholarship because of all the pressures and problems others have outlined.  She's been offered a "full" merit based (non athletic) scholarship at a small private college.  She's very intrigued.  It's a gorgeous campus (at least in pictures) on the opposite coast in a big city and the coach really, really wants her.   Sounds perfect, right?  But...it's in one of the most HCOL cities in the US.  I'm not sure if her "full scholarship" pays for housing.  Google tells me the college accepts 80% of its applicants (so not very competitive) and the average GPA of those accepted is a full point below her average (3.4 vs 4.4).  She wants to go into a niche STEM field that you only really get specialized in at the Phd level.  Imho she needs to select a much more competitive school.  Not sure what she and her parents will decide.

Re:  the bolded part -- most likely it doesn't.  Revenue from housing and food services is one of the areas that is keeping many small colleges like this afloat financially, because in order to get enough butts in seats to meet their annual enrollment targets they have to discount tuition heavily. 

I would not entirely write a school like this off, though.  Is there one or more professors there who have studied/do research in or adjacent to the area of interest?  If they got their own PhD from a school that offers such a program then lots of research experience with them and a good recommendation going straight to professors they have worked with directly could be a very solid foot in the door.  Getting a job as a professor is so hard these days that in some fields nearly all the professors come out of a a very small range of schools/programs.  So the chances of finding someone with links to those schools/programs is actually very high, even at a smaller, less prestigious school.

For the OP, is there any way you can find a student already enrolled at each of those schools and have your child go spend a whole weekend with them, or even a weekend + a Friday or Monday worth of classes.  Places that look great on a two-hour tour can look VERY different once you are seeing them with someone who actually goes there.  For example, my daughter was very interested in U Colorado-Boulder but once she actually visited and hung out with her friend who was there she learned it has much more of a party culture than she would prefer. 

lucenzo11

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2023, 09:46:27 AM »
OP, I am fully supportive of you telling your kid about the financials, because if not, what are they currently assuming? Do they think you are just paying for all of it? That discussion needs to happen. But first, you need to figure out what happens if they pick the state school and there is $60k left over. Do you give it to them now or when they graduate, or never? Are there any limitations on that money (only for additional education? travel? must be invested?)  Similarly for the private school, if they graduate with the minimum debt of $60k, figure out whether the debt would be purely their problem or whether you would help at all. Those decisions need to be communicated to your kid, because if not, then they are just going to pick whichever school they like best, but does not factor into everything. I think it's important to at least present them the financial side because it's their future. The less expensive option is the best financially, but may not always be the best life decision.

My experience: parents told me to pick whatever college I wanted and not worry about the price because we would "figure it out". It was terrible financial advice because they are terrible with money. Nothing was saved for college, so I picked the school I liked the best (the private school). I had no idea how much student debt I would have and didn't figure that out until I was working and the bills started coming in. Turns out it was over $100k, with over a quarter of that at 10% interest through private loans. That was pretty crushing once I did the math. I just wish my parents had laid out the math of the decision and shown me the hole I was digging for myself. The public school would have been less than half the price, still would have needed loans, but would have been much more reasonable.

I appreciate everyone saying that sometimes paying for the private school is the better outcome; however, in my case, it's pretty hard to draw the connection between private school and my current success. My connection to my first job was not through school and was just a random connection that didn't care where I went to college. Many of my current coworkers went to the public school so it's hard to look back and say that my life would be drastically worse by choosing the public school instead. On the flip side, I was also a college athlete and was able to play at the D3 private school (would not even be close to making the team at the D1 school), met some life long friends, and overall had a very good college experience.

This is just such a big decision for any 17/18yo to make and while they may not understand the money implications of their decision, it is at least your obligation to tell them the implications and then it's on them to make the decision. Explain interest too and how $60k in loans will actually end up being way more in payments. Maybe this is even a time to introduce them to FIRE in the lightest ways. I don't have kids so I'm not sure when is a good time to bring this up, but others may provide better suggestions for this.

Last I'll say is every kid is different and no matter what we say on here, only you know what is best for your kid and how best to guide them in their future. Best of luck!

charis

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2023, 10:09:29 AM »
My experience: parents told me to pick whatever college I wanted and not worry about the price because we would "figure it out". It was terrible financial advice because they are terrible with money. Nothing was saved for college, so I picked the school I liked the best (the private school). I had no idea how much student debt I would have and didn't figure that out until I was working and the bills started coming in. Turns out it was over $100k, with over a quarter of that at 10% interest through private loans. That was pretty crushing once I did the math. I just wish my parents had laid out the math of the decision and shown me the hole I was digging for myself. The public school would have been less than half the price, still would have needed loans, but would have been much more reasonable.

This happened to me too.  I don't even remember taking out the loans, they must have done it on my behalf.  It was a lot less than your amount, so I was lucky in that regard, but it was still a nasty surprise.

Sandi_k

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2023, 11:02:10 AM »
I think you owe it to your kid to sit down, and start talking finances. The fact that you've waited this long to talk about money, budgeting, debt, student loans in regards to their college choice is not optimal.

I ended up having a similar conversation when my brother was graduating with his BA. He told me he planned to go to law school. I told him that I thought it was a bad idea - he had taken several gap years already, and was 27.

I literally took a napkin at the restaurant, and laid out the money trap with that plan.

Age 27: study for LSAT, earn $35k per year. Up: ~$55k in income.
Age 28.5: Enter law school. Quit job, take out loan. Down $75k for the year.
Age 29.5: repeat.
Age 30.5: repeat
Age 31, 3 months: Graduate down $225k (and maybe more, assuming he'd gotten raises in Years 2,3,4 at the job).

Age 31-46: Pay back student loans of $100k. Work 90 hour weeks as an attorney for first 5 years. Live like a lower-middle class citizen, but add marriage, mortgage, and kids.

Age 47-55: Finally start making real money, but now kids are college age.

Age 55-67: Continue to work in an effort to finally catch up.

He decided that afternoon to avoid law school. Decided to go into financial advising instead. He's done pretty well - married, three kids, gorgeous $$$$ home. A reasonable work/life balance. Nut what he never managed to overcome was his desire to Live Large. He's very clear that his oldest has 2.5 years more of college, and the next two kids will take an additional 5.5 years to finish. So he'll be 64 when all his kids have their BA - and he'll need to downsize in order to afford retirement.

He hasn't told his kids how much they have in college - so the oldest is in a very small, very expensive private religious college. The next kid has a goal to study abroad. He's never managed their expectations at all. Even though one way he graduated without debt is attending a JC and transferring to a 4 year college.

I am a big fan of managing those expectations in high school. Laying out the tradeoffs in terms of budget and debt is important, I think. I also think you need to be clear: if your kid goes to the cheaper college, does the remaining amount go to him for grad school? House down payment? Wedding costs? You *can* incentivize financially astute behavior. So get on it. ;)

Dreamer40

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2023, 02:45:58 PM »
I think you owe it to your kid to sit down, and start talking finances. The fact that you've waited this long to talk about money, budgeting, debt, student loans in regards to their college choice is not optimal.

I ended up having a similar conversation when my brother was graduating with his BA. He told me he planned to go to law school. I told him that I thought it was a bad idea - he had taken several gap years already, and was 27.

I literally took a napkin at the restaurant, and laid out the money trap with that plan.

Age 27: study for LSAT, earn $35k per year. Up: ~$55k in income.
Age 28.5: Enter law school. Quit job, take out loan. Down $75k for the year.
Age 29.5: repeat.
Age 30.5: repeat
Age 31, 3 months: Graduate down $225k (and maybe more, assuming he'd gotten raises in Years 2,3,4 at the job).

Age 31-46: Pay back student loans of $100k. Work 90 hour weeks as an attorney for first 5 years. Live like a lower-middle class citizen, but add marriage, mortgage, and kids.

Age 47-55: Finally start making real money, but now kids are college age.

Age 55-67: Continue to work in an effort to finally catch up.

He decided that afternoon to avoid law school. Decided to go into financial advising instead. He's done pretty well - married, three kids, gorgeous $$$$ home. A reasonable work/life balance. Nut what he never managed to overcome was his desire to Live Large. He's very clear that his oldest has 2.5 years more of college, and the next two kids will take an additional 5.5 years to finish. So he'll be 64 when all his kids have their BA - and he'll need to downsize in order to afford retirement.

He hasn't told his kids how much they have in college - so the oldest is in a very small, very expensive private religious college. The next kid has a goal to study abroad. He's never managed their expectations at all. Even though one way he graduated without debt is attending a JC and transferring to a 4 year college.

I am a big fan of managing those expectations in high school. Laying out the tradeoffs in terms of budget and debt is important, I think. I also think you need to be clear: if your kid goes to the cheaper college, does the remaining amount go to him for grad school? House down payment? Wedding costs? You *can* incentivize financially astute behavior. So get on it. ;)

For what it’s worth, those law school numbers don’t represent the only possible lawyer experience. I graduated $60K in debt and paid it off within a few years, then retired at 40 from a federal gov law job. You don’t need to go that far in debt or take the highest paying firm job to pay it off. It was a great financial decision even if it didn’t actually like being a lawyer.

FINate

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2023, 04:43:34 PM »
Your son is not just going off to college, he's also launching into adulthood. So be transparent and let him make adult decisions, then let him live with the outcomes. Decide how much you're willing to contribute to his education. Discuss the choices and trade-offs involved, and let him know that he's on his own for anything above and beyond what you're funding.

If he goes the state school route he could use the remaining $60k for grad school, which may be a wise move depending on his area of study.

But if he wants to go the private school route help him understand how much he will have to borrow and what repayment looks like.

Either way, let him make the choice.

Duke03

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2023, 04:58:50 PM »
I like to play a game whenever I get the chance to talk to a college kid or one that is fixing to head that way.  First thing I ask them is what are they majoring in and what kind of job do they plan on getting after they are done with college.  Everyone answers these questions full of promise and so sure of themselves.  My next question is I ask them how much the job will pay them starting out that they just told me they'd get.... crickets... I've had one person in over 100 actually give me a number range.  Most just look dumbfounded so then I tell them to google that job for salary and then look for 3 current job listings.  This is when you get the deer in the headlights from all the bull shit degrees and dreamers. While they are working on this, I remind them that currently to support yourself in a decent fashion you'll need 60k to 70k a year in income... I'm not out there trying to run anyone's dreams, but someone needs to show these kids what the real world looks like.  Life isn't fair and you don't always get what you want.  With that said most people that have some real-life experience and are being truthful will admit that the things you think you need and want the most have the least effect on your life when you actually get them.

joe189man

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2023, 04:59:16 PM »
I kinda danced in both of the worlds your kid may be facing. I went to a private liberal arts college (PLAC) for a few years then transferred to a state school where i changed majors and ultimately graduated a few years later.  Obviously the state school was the cheaper choice and i would argue the education was better for my STEM degree at the state school. The STEM degree was not available at the PLAC. However, i learned a great deal at the PLAC and made countless friendships that i have maintained for over 20 years now. These friendships helped me land jobs and lead to the marriage with DW. i have a few friends that i sorta still talk to from the state school days but its rare.

Based upon my and DW experience, we would never write off a PLAC solely due to cost, the intangibles for us were priceless. But as always YMMV
« Last Edit: January 31, 2023, 09:20:52 AM by joe189man »

314159

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2023, 07:50:13 PM »
I'm a bit surprised only two schools are being considered. If OP's son sent out more applications but the rest have already been rejected, I understand. If you're still waiting to hear the decisions, then be patient. If the son only applied to two schools, consider applying to more?

Runrooster

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2023, 10:14:36 PM »
This question comes up frequently on this forum. I was thinking today that it isn’t that different from the constant question of what quality of food to buy. Sometimes we opt for the expensive brand, sometimes the mid range healthy version, sometimes the cheap one. My Mom tends to want the expensive version - most recent example was $4 Belgian waffles over $1 regular waffles. Her default assumption is that it’s a .50 difference, not 4 times the price.

At the same time, college remains a place where I wanted to splurge and have since felt it was “worth it”. There’s a certain YOLO feeling about it, but at 17 going to the large state university felt like being trapped in a series of life choices my parents wanted for me. Along with majoring in engineering, having an arranged marriage, and spitting out 4 kids. Going to my elite private school was a step off that treadmill - I majored in math and pursued grad school, didn’t marry or have kids. I remember at 17 feeling like the sensible path was going to end in suicide, having already had an attempt in my teen years.

I did eventually return to the sensible, well paying career, but having a decade to YOLO made it more bearable. I have no idea how people do it right out of college, and even now the only thing that gets me through some days is knowing I could retire if it still sucks in a year.

I think my point is: do you make the most sensible choice, is that what you model?  Do you live in the cheapest house in the cheapest area? Do you drive the cheapest car? Are all your vacations camping? How does a kid from that kind of family even play sports?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2023, 10:59:45 PM by Runrooster »

patchyfacialhair

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2023, 11:34:27 PM »
Not going to read all the replies. But I faced similar college choices and decided to pick the expensive private school. Didn't have athletic scholarships but did have academic ones. Could have gone to my "safety" school for pretty much a full ride, but chose instead the top 25 private that gave me 10k in money off of $50k tuition/room/board.

It didn't work out. College put all my favorite things in front of me...drinking...smoking...and women. And despite having the high SAT score, leadership experience, sports, all that...I wasn't mature enough to limit myself when it came to those vices.

I dropped out after that first year with $40k in loans. I recovered, but it took me working 1-2 jobs full time minimum while going to school full time (community college then unremarkable state school), not being able to take internships, and living at home in order to keep going to school as well as paying off that $40k. Having that school debt really shackled me from pursuing other things in life for a few years. To those in the thread saying that's not a lot of money...I respectfully disagree. That's a lot of money for a new graduate making entry level money.

In hindsight, I wish I would have taken the free option. My behavior probably would have been the same but at least I wouldn't have started out $40k in the hole. That would have allowed me to take internships in my major (once I matured), and it would have led to a higher starting salary and probably more money 12 years later than what I'm making now. Instead I had to work while in school, and I took the first job that made some sense after graduation, and now I'm working in an industry that I'm thankful to be in, but it's not like I was deliberate in finding it, and it's not something I'm passionate about (insurance).

TLDR: He should really go to the state school. It'll probably be a fun time for him, with a good enough education, and if he pursues internships, he'll be in a great spot with some cash from mom and dad after graduation at which point he'll be light years ahead of most of his peers, and will likely be able to do the same for his kids when the time comes.

clarkfan1979

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2023, 01:10:14 PM »
I like to play a game whenever I get the chance to talk to a college kid or one that is fixing to head that way.  First thing I ask them is what are they majoring in and what kind of job do they plan on getting after they are done with college.  Everyone answers these questions full of promise and so sure of themselves.  My next question is I ask them how much the job will pay them starting out that they just told me they'd get.... crickets... I've had one person in over 100 actually give me a number range.  Most just look dumbfounded so then I tell them to google that job for salary and then look for 3 current job listings.  This is when you get the deer in the headlights from all the bull shit degrees and dreamers. While they are working on this, I remind them that currently to support yourself in a decent fashion you'll need 60k to 70k a year in income... I'm not out there trying to run anyone's dreams, but someone needs to show these kids what the real world looks like.  Life isn't fair and you don't always get what you want.  With that said most people that have some real-life experience and are being truthful will admit that the things you think you need and want the most have the least effect on your life when you actually get them.

If you want a new car and your own 1-bedroom apartment, then yes, 60K/year is probably needed.

I'm going to tell my son that it is very possible to live on less if you are willing to make trade-offs. If you are cool with a used car and roommates, you could easily live on 30K/year and pursue a career that suits your interests and strengths.

I'm going to encourage my son to play the long game. Don't take a soul crushing job right out of college with a "high salary" that expects 65 hours/week. If you really look at the hourly wage, it's not that impressive. 

Value your time. Find a path that suits your interests and has a relatively high hourly wage, even if the salary is low.

My salary is 57K, but with retirement and insurance benefits, my total compensation is 82K. I work 1,000 hours/year. Life is good.

patchyfacialhair

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2023, 01:48:52 PM »
I like to play a game whenever I get the chance to talk to a college kid or one that is fixing to head that way.  First thing I ask them is what are they majoring in and what kind of job do they plan on getting after they are done with college.  Everyone answers these questions full of promise and so sure of themselves.  My next question is I ask them how much the job will pay them starting out that they just told me they'd get.... crickets... I've had one person in over 100 actually give me a number range.  Most just look dumbfounded so then I tell them to google that job for salary and then look for 3 current job listings.  This is when you get the deer in the headlights from all the bull shit degrees and dreamers. While they are working on this, I remind them that currently to support yourself in a decent fashion you'll need 60k to 70k a year in income... I'm not out there trying to run anyone's dreams, but someone needs to show these kids what the real world looks like.  Life isn't fair and you don't always get what you want.  With that said most people that have some real-life experience and are being truthful will admit that the things you think you need and want the most have the least effect on your life when you actually get them.

If you want a new car and your own 1-bedroom apartment, then yes, 60K/year is probably needed.

I'm going to tell my son that it is very possible to live on less if you are willing to make trade-offs. If you are cool with a used car and roommates, you could easily live on 30K/year and pursue a career that suits your interests and strengths.

I'm going to encourage my son to play the long game. Don't take a soul crushing job right out of college with a "high salary" that expects 65 hours/week. If you really look at the hourly wage, it's not that impressive. 

Value your time. Find a path that suits your interests and has a relatively high hourly wage, even if the salary is low.

My salary is 57K, but with retirement and insurance benefits, my total compensation is 82K. I work 1,000 hours/year. Life is good.

And if OP's son makes a choice that leads to student loans...that higher salary will be more necessary, regardless of desired lifestyle. If OP wants to follow his dream and pursue a lower paying career, it's even more important that he avoid student loans at all costs.

clarkfan1979

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2023, 05:37:41 AM »
I thought this was a balanced approach for selecting a major. It's from the money guy show, which I frequent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTi8kS1QZO4

JupiterGreen

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2023, 06:33:27 AM »
I like to play a game whenever I get the chance to talk to a college kid or one that is fixing to head that way.  First thing I ask them is what are they majoring in and what kind of job do they plan on getting after they are done with college.  Everyone answers these questions full of promise and so sure of themselves.  My next question is I ask them how much the job will pay them starting out that they just told me they'd get.... crickets... I've had one person in over 100 actually give me a number range.  Most just look dumbfounded so then I tell them to google that job for salary and then look for 3 current job listings.  This is when you get the deer in the headlights from all the bull shit degrees and dreamers. While they are working on this, I remind them that currently to support yourself in a decent fashion you'll need 60k to 70k a year in income... I'm not out there trying to run anyone's dreams, but someone needs to show these kids what the real world looks like.  Life isn't fair and you don't always get what you want.  With that said most people that have some real-life experience and are being truthful will admit that the things you think you need and want the most have the least effect on your life when you actually get them.

If you want a new car and your own 1-bedroom apartment, then yes, 60K/year is probably needed.

I'm going to tell my son that it is very possible to live on less if you are willing to make trade-offs. If you are cool with a used car and roommates, you could easily live on 30K/year and pursue a career that suits your interests and strengths.

I'm going to encourage my son to play the long game. Don't take a soul crushing job right out of college with a "high salary" that expects 65 hours/week. If you really look at the hourly wage, it's not that impressive. 

Value your time. Find a path that suits your interests and has a relatively high hourly wage, even if the salary is low.

My salary is 57K, but with retirement and insurance benefits, my total compensation is 82K. I work 1,000 hours/year. Life is good.

I like the cut of your jib!

So many young people are rushing through school with tunnel vision chasing money (that may or may not be there) and missing life experiences. You can get money back, but not time and we are only young once. Young people overwhelmingly don't connect with each other, don't really date, do drugs, have sex, those in college often don't have experiences outside their narrow major. They are all headed towards mental health crisis/depression.

What is life, but a series of memories. We make memories by reaching out and taking chances. It is less likely your child will live a life of regret if they were able to give their unpractical dream a try and walk the road less travelled a bit. I'm not suggesting making rash unthoughtful decisions, but people should be allowed to chase their dreams while young. This can be done in a sober way, and by not incurring much debt. So an example might be someone wants to be a writer, so they study creative writing/english but perhaps they also do courses in technical writing. And I've already posted about this, but attending a good in-state public college/university will go a long way in keeping debt down. Or maybe they shouldn't go to college right away (or at all). Maybe they need to tour through Asia, hike El Camino, or go see Machu Picchu, who knows what those experiences might teach them.

The world would SUCK without writers, weird content creators, white water rafting guides, musicians, state park rangers, artists etc. Also, the loss/lack of these things indicate an empire in fall...so I'm glad to hear some parents are still supporting their kid's dreams

newbie

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2023, 06:51:09 AM »
Update!
Hello All - I really appreciated your thoughtful responses.  I realized how much tunnel vision I had just focusing solely on the amount each college cost and not the unique experiences each place could offer.
I wanted to give an update.  My son had a third school reach out to him and he did an official athletic visit and LOVED the campus, coaches and athletes he met.  He hadn't been this excited about the other two and I am so happy he found his place. He is going to go there.  While the scholarship isn't as great as the one from the first state school, the cost of four years at this school will fall in between the two previously mentioned schools.  There is also a chance he can earn more money if he does very well in the sport.  Besides getting to participate in a sport he loves, he will get extra support through counselors assigned to the athletes to help them transition to college and from being a star at their high school to being a beginning college athlete.  He also is excited about the business school at this university and believes it will be a great place for him.
He and I are having a meeting with our financial advisor next month and learning about how we will withdraw and use the money we have been saving for education.  My son is now aware of our total amount of savings for him.
There was another thread that I found very interesting where the OP was advised against needing to feel like each kid was due the same amount for college and that post also helped me a lot as well.  Each kid will be different and need a different experience. 
Thanks again!

Laura33

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2023, 07:43:37 AM »
Update!
Hello All - I really appreciated your thoughtful responses.  I realized how much tunnel vision I had just focusing solely on the amount each college cost and not the unique experiences each place could offer.
I wanted to give an update.  My son had a third school reach out to him and he did an official athletic visit and LOVED the campus, coaches and athletes he met.  He hadn't been this excited about the other two and I am so happy he found his place. He is going to go there.  While the scholarship isn't as great as the one from the first state school, the cost of four years at this school will fall in between the two previously mentioned schools.  There is also a chance he can earn more money if he does very well in the sport.  Besides getting to participate in a sport he loves, he will get extra support through counselors assigned to the athletes to help them transition to college and from being a star at their high school to being a beginning college athlete.  He also is excited about the business school at this university and believes it will be a great place for him.
He and I are having a meeting with our financial advisor next month and learning about how we will withdraw and use the money we have been saving for education.  My son is now aware of our total amount of savings for him.
There was another thread that I found very interesting where the OP was advised against needing to feel like each kid was due the same amount for college and that post also helped me a lot as well.  Each kid will be different and need a different experience. 
Thanks again!

Congratulations!  What a great update, and I'm so happy for him!

Michael in ABQ

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2023, 09:35:04 AM »
I'll just throw out that in the job market, most employers don't care what school you went to, and unless you get a super high GPA don't care about that either. At the top-end of the market those things can matter, but very few kids are going to end up working at Goldman Sachs or Google or Tesla straight out of college. For the other 90%+ of careers that extra $50-100k in college expense is going to provide a very poor ROI.

My business degree was enough to get me a first job and then everything after that was based on my experience and skills. I enjoyed myself in college, I took some extra classes that were interesting but not necessary (graduated with 150 credits and two minors). Now that I actually own a business I had to go back and relearn a bunch of stuff from college, plus all the important stuff that never came up in a class - like making decisions with imperfect information vs. textbooks examples where all that inputs are provided (real life is never that simple).

Anon-E-Mouze

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Re: How to talk to college bound kid about making a good choice for future
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2023, 09:16:51 AM »
I thought it might be helpful to add something to the discussion that isn't so much about the core financial decision to be made (which college, which major) but about some related topics with financial and career implications.

1. I wish that, back in university, I'd realized that there are alternative venues to learn interesting and/or lucrative stuff, other than in a university classroom. For example, one smart thing I did (although I didn't know it at the time) was to take a government-funded French language immersion program the summer before I started university. I was actually able to do the programme at the university where I was enrolled for my degree (University of Victoria), so I got to spend 6 weeks finding my way around the university and the city before the school year started. Also - free university-level language training without any impact on my GPA. However, I messed that up a bit because then I decided to a) challenge the 1st year French course (which involves writing the exam without taking the course) and b) skip ahead to 2nd year French. So I ended up with 6 full-year credits instead of 5, but that experience lowered my GPA (because I got Bs on my challenge exam and in 2nd year French). I should have focused on what I wanted (which was to improve my French) and not on where I studied the language. I could have taken French through Alliance Francaise or another government-sponsored program and improved my skills and knowledge without it affecting my GPA.

2. Liberal Arts (history and English) was the right undergraduate degree for me and set me up well for my law degree. But I wish I had explored the possibility of taking some courses or credentials on the side (e.g. in the summers) focusing on business-useful subjects like finance, statistics or computer science. I wouldn't have wanted to do those as part of a costly degree program (and in a venue where bad grades could affect my GPA), but I still wish I'd studied those subjects. Now, with MOOCs and other free and low-cost options for education, I encourage young people in my life to take courses and/or earn credentials that can give them a leg up in the job market. Some other subjects/credentials that could be worth pursuing as a sideline by a liberal arts-oriented student would be project management, marketing, HR certifications, data analysis etc.

 

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