Author Topic: How to make tiny decisions...  (Read 2434 times)

nobleleger

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How to make tiny decisions...
« on: January 08, 2020, 07:26:25 AM »
Here is a simple thing...  my wife and I love coffee, I roast my own to save money.  She prefers Costco labeled starbucks.  We make 1 cup at a time, about 1-3 cups per day total.  I have a Hario V60 which uses paper filters at 5.6 cents per filter.  I could spend $26 on a different dripper that uses standard #4 paper filters at 2.9 cents per filter.  (Neither of us like metal filtered coffee, we tried, not an option.)  I'd choose a more expensive Bonavita ceramic dripper over a cheapo one because I think it would also allow my wife to use less coffee because it steeps longer.

I calculated it would take 478 days to earn back the $26.  If I spend the $26, we'd save $73 in 5 years. 

The thing is, money is tight... No bad debt, but we're trying hard to build up emergency fund so I'm questioning every dollar spent these days.  It feels easier to spend $12 on another pack of more expensive filters than it does spending $26 +  $12 on a new dripper and more filters. 

How do you all make tiny decisions like this?

Louisville

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Re: How to make tiny decisions...
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2020, 07:42:24 AM »
Individual 16 oz insulated press pots.
Changed my life. Better coffee, no waste.

max

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Re: How to make tiny decisions...
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2020, 07:58:51 AM »
Have you tried the regular filters in your Hario?  I have a Kalita Wave and use the regular round filters.  It works fine.  Also, I usually do a larger pour into an insulated thermos / Tervis that I work out of.

Laura33

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Re: How to make tiny decisions...
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2020, 08:05:39 AM »
I think it helps to have rules of thumb so you don't drive yourself batty.  My first rule is to always see if I can make do with what I have.  I find that my ability to rationalize fancy new shinypretties is pretty exceptional, to the point that I can almost always find a justification for it.  So when I am rationalizing buying something better/fancier/more expensive because it will be "better" for some reason or another, my default is to not buy it and see if I can get by with what I already have, unless and until what I have isn't working.

I also ask myself what is the downside -- what part of my rosy projections can go wrong.  So, for ex., do your money-saving calculations rely on your wife actually using less coffee?  What happens if she doesn't but keeps using the same amount? 

Beyond that, it's really a question of priorities.  You are talking about long-term savings in return for an up-front cost.  For me, that would be a good deal, because I have plenty of cash on-hand, and so I am best off by minimizing future expenses.  But your current top priority is growing your emergency fund.  So that takes priority over long-term savings, until you get that figure where you want it.

Finally, though, the best answer may be not to spend a lot of time fixated on the minor tweaks when you can make much more significant improvements by questioning your baseline assumptions.  For example, you take it for granted that: you each need different coffees; therefore, you must make one cup at a time so you can each make your own, using a new filter each time; and you sometimes/often have more than one each.  By my math, three cheap filters at 2.9c each still cost more than one 5.6c filter.  So are you really saving money by roasting your own, when that requires 3 filters/day, instead of just using her Costco coffee and making one pot?  Can you make the cheap filters work in your current equipment?  And how much would you save if you cut down to one cup each a day max?  Or cut out coffee entirely?  Etc.

Now, it may be that you've thought of these things, and you've decide those are changes you're not willing to make.  But when you're trying to cut expenses and make the most financially beneficial decisions, you should start by focusing on the options that give you the biggest bang for your buck.

IOW, maybe the first question is really "is this the decision I need to be making?"  The reality is that we each have only so much time and attention to devote to making decisions that improve our lives.  If you are spending hours evaluating the costs and options of different filters and equipment to save $700 over 5 years, that is time that you can't spend researching lower car insurance rates or cellphones, or meal-prepping and coupon-clipping to save $20/week in groceries.  Start by optimizing the big stuff.  And odds are, by the time you've got all of that under control, you'll be in a great place no matter which coffee filters you use.

nobleleger

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Re: How to make tiny decisions...
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2020, 08:56:53 AM »
Quote
Have you tried the regular filters in your Hario?  I have a Kalita Wave and use the regular round filters.  It works fine.  Also, I usually do a larger pour into an insulated thermos / Tervis that I work out of.
I've tried, but the Hario has a huge hole in the bottom and it is shaped a bit differently.  Hario's are hard to get good extraction compared to Kalita Wave or the Bonavita or other "restricted flow" pourovers. (Yea that is me using ridiculous subtle differences to justify something new.)

Quote
questioning your baseline assumptions.
Yea, I we've tried combining efforts and it didn't work.  I like light-roast single origin coffee and I'm geeky about it.  The beans I prefer roasted with a week and commercially cost $15-$20/pound from my local 3rd wave coffee roaster.  By roasting my own I get all that fanciness for $4-5/pound and 20 minutes of manual effort per week.  Wife could care less, likes super dark roasted coffee and only grinds it once a week. I could just suck it up and drink the bad stuff but I'm willing to do the effort and it doesn't cost more so I feel justified in the luxury.

Quote
IOW, maybe the first question is really "is this the decision I need to be making?"  The reality is that we each have only so much time and attention to devote to making decisions that improve our lives.  If you are spending hours evaluating the costs and options of different filters and equipment to save $700 over 5 years, that is time that you can't spend researching lower car insurance rates or cellphones, or meal-prepping and coupon-clipping to save $20/week in groceries.  Start by optimizing the big stuff.  And odds are, by the time you've got all of that under control, you'll be in a great place no matter which coffee filters you use.

You are spot on here... There are probably 10's of other areas for optimization that would pay back much more. I know I need to make an appointment with the bank to get a better mortgage rate, sell the motorcycle, focus more on meal prep... winey voice: but those are "hard" things that don't involve buying shinynewthings... 

I think... make do with what we have even if it costs a few bucks more and hopefully in the long run but plan on implementing more tiny cost savings in the future.  I should probably save this research into a spreadsheet called "future optimizations" and reward myself with these once the emergency fund is full.   


socaso

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Re: How to make tiny decisions...
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2020, 10:17:14 AM »
How about a French press? No filters! Get the stainless steel model, though. We used to get the glass ones that were about $15 each but they broke at least once a year. The stainless steel was about $25-30 but will never break and it's easier to take on camping trips.

seemsright

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Re: How to make tiny decisions...
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2020, 10:55:42 AM »
I have the attitude of building wealth is a long game!

I love coffee but I feel like crap when I drink it.

So I moved to tea. To have my brain not crave coffee I must have tea I want to drink. This has taken some effort to discover. But hubby and I did some math. I could buy a box of 18 tea bags and get 6 cups out of that box for $4 ish. I have a massive mug and I put 3 tea bags in the cup at a time. Even if I buy the bigger box of something like Red Rose it is about the same cost. So a cup of tea is costing me about a $.75 after I add milk and sugar. And this is for Black tea which is not my favorite as it makes my tummy sour if I drink tea before I eat. So this is not the best option.

I then went online. I found a Blue Nettle Oolong that was $70 for 250g. This tea is so good that I got my first package I tasted it and then went back online and ordered another bag. The thing is 2 grams of this tea makes a wonderful cup of tea. The thing is I can brew this tea 4x before I need to get another 2 grams of tea. So I went from a cup of tea costing me about $.14 for a kick ass cup of tea. And I do not need to add milk or sugar.

My point is you may only save $73 in 5 years. But that is a extra $14 in your pocket every year drinking what you enjoy. I am really taking this type of thing seriously as I truly believe that it is the small things in life that matter. And the small choices every single day that help you get to your big goal of FI.

kei te pai

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Re: How to make tiny decisions...
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2020, 12:17:27 PM »
One coffee a day until you sell that motorbike!
Then drink the proceeds in coffee until the money runs out. Then sell something else/go talk to the bank etc to facilitate your coffee habits. You need a stick as well as a carrot!

ohsnap

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Re: How to make tiny decisions...
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2020, 01:52:53 PM »
How about a French press? No filters! Get the stainless steel model, though. We used to get the glass ones that were about $15 each but they broke at least once a year. The stainless steel was about $25-30 but will never break and it's easier to take on camping trips.

Yep!  I lost count of how many glass carafes we'd bought & broken over the years.  We are loving the stainless steel - unbreakable AND insulated!

nobleleger

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Re: How to make tiny decisions...
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2020, 02:07:31 PM »
How about a French press? No filters! Get the stainless steel model, though. We used to get the glass ones that were about $15 each but they broke at least once a year. The stainless steel was about $25-30 but will never break and it's easier to take on camping trips.

I've had one for many years and never managed to break it. Good idea, but the problem is that metal filtered coffee makes my wife's tummy hurt. Paper removes more oils and makes it taste "cleaner".  Come to think of it, something else to add to my garage sale pile! I bet someone will give me $5 for it.

nobleleger

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Re: How to make tiny decisions...
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2020, 02:10:48 PM »
One coffee a day until you sell that motorbike!
Then drink the proceeds in coffee until the money runs out. Then sell something else/go talk to the bank etc to facilitate your coffee habits. You need a stick as well as a carrot!

Ha! I'll sell it first thing this spring I promise. 

Laura33

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Re: How to make tiny decisions...
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2020, 07:23:43 AM »
How about a French press? No filters! Get the stainless steel model, though. We used to get the glass ones that were about $15 each but they broke at least once a year. The stainless steel was about $25-30 but will never break and it's easier to take on camping trips.

I've had one for many years and never managed to break it. Good idea, but the problem is that metal filtered coffee makes my wife's tummy hurt. Paper removes more oils and makes it taste "cleaner".  Come to think of it, something else to add to my garage sale pile! I bet someone will give me $5 for it.

Why don't you use that one for your coffee?  Then you don't need the expensive filters at all, and your wife can keep using the cheap ones. 

Quote
I like light-roast single origin coffee and I'm geeky about it.  The beans I prefer roasted with a week and commercially cost $15-$20/pound from my local 3rd wave coffee roaster.  By roasting my own I get all that fanciness for $4-5/pound and 20 minutes of manual effort per week.  Wife could care less, likes super dark roasted coffee and only grinds it once a week. I could just suck it up and drink the bad stuff but I'm willing to do the effort and it doesn't cost more so I feel justified in the luxury.

This pretty much illustrates my last point.  Basically, you guys want very specific, high-end, artisinal luxuries, and now you're trying to justify it mentally by fretting over the cost of filters.  If money is super tight (like if you are in a debt emergency, saving everything for a goal, struggling to make ends meet, etc.) then hyper-focusing on the cost of filters is basically rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic -- you need to be fighting your feeling of entitlement to that kind of luxury at all, not justifying extra spending because "it's so much cheaper than if I [got Starbucks every day, bought fancy beans, used XYZ process, etc.]." 

OTOH, if money isn't that tight, then you can legitimately decide that this is a luxury that is worth it to you.  But it seems to me that if that were really your situation, you'd have already paid the $26 for the better long-term investment, instead of fretting so much about handing over a single Andrew Jackson that's going to save you money in the long run. 

I also want to note that it's really not about the coffee.  It's about developing a mindset that avoids lifestyle creep.  Like I said, your brain is really, really good at finding justifications for what you already want to do.  So once you develop the habit of justifying artisinal coffee, then you start to apply those same skills to grocery shopping, or shopping/meal services (it saves so much of my time, and I'm better off spending that time at work bringing in a paycheck!  Even when you never do actually spend that extra time earning more money to offset the extra costs), and then to furniture (gee, I'd really better buy the high-end coffee table, because it's so much better quality and will last forever -- even though the reality is that in 10 years it'll be outdated and you'll replace it anyway), etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum. 

So if your goal is to be financially efficient, you need to start from the assumption that everything beyond the very basics is a luxury, and then do the math and decide what kind of luxury, and how much, you want, given the financial consequences.  For example, say you don't like your apartment -- it's too small, and the neighborhood is crappy.  You can spend another $100/mo. to move to a similar apartment in a better neighborhood, the same $100/mo. to move to a larger apartment in the same neighborhood, or $200/mo to move to a bigger apartment in the better neighborhood.  The math says that you need $30K more in your 'stache to sustain an extra $100/mo. indefinitely, and $60K for $200/mo.  You do the math on how much longer you need to work to save that much.  They you figure out whether it's worth it.  Maybe you decide another X months of work is worth it to get out of your neighborood, but 2X months isn't worth it for the larger space.  Or maybe you're having a kid, and you need the space more, so you choose the bigger apartment in the same neighborhood.  Or maybe you just say fuck it, I cannot live like this any more, and you decide you're willing to work 2X months for the bigger apartment in the nicer neighborhood.  There's no right answer; the point is to do the math and understand what those choices are costing you in time.

Note that this works in reverse, too: if your new coffee maker is going to save you $15/yr, that's $375 less that you will need in your 'stache to FIRE.  So:  is saving that much money worth the amount of time and mental energy you're putting into the analysis?   Or are you better off working to, say, cut $50/mo. off your insurance ($15K less required in your 'stache), or $100/mo off your grocery bill ($30K less)?  The math tells you what your priorities should be.

The real benefit of this approach is that it makes you extremely conscious of how much luxury you already have built into your life, which makes you feel like you are surrounded by abundance, instead of so strapped you need to worry whether you can afford 5c coffee filters.

Metalcat

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Re: How to make tiny decisions...
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2020, 08:00:26 AM »
^what Laura said

You are struggling with this really teensy dilemma because you are struggling with money right now. If $26 is enough to be of concern, then I can't fathom expensive coffee being a priority.

When little decisions start being difficult, it's a sign that something bigger is of concern.

Laura33

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Re: How to make tiny decisions...
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2020, 08:31:51 AM »
^what Laura said

You are struggling with this really teensy dilemma because you are struggling with money right now. If $26 is enough to be of concern, then I can't fathom expensive coffee being a priority.

When little decisions start being difficult, it's a sign that something bigger is of concern.

As usual, Malkynn said in three sentences what took me a page. . . .  So:  what Malkynn said.

Metalcat

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Re: How to make tiny decisions...
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2020, 08:37:31 AM »
^what Laura said

You are struggling with this really teensy dilemma because you are struggling with money right now. If $26 is enough to be of concern, then I can't fathom expensive coffee being a priority.

When little decisions start being difficult, it's a sign that something bigger is of concern.

As usual, Malkynn said in three sentences what took me a page. . . .  So:  what Malkynn said.

Law vs Medical

Me: no time for lots words...scribble scribble, WTF does my hand writing even say???

You: by the time you finish reading this, you will fully grasp from all angles the content, meaning, and motivations of the intended message in unambiguous clarity
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 08:40:08 AM by Malkynn »

nobleleger

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Re: How to make tiny decisions...
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2020, 11:55:18 AM »
You of course are right. Thank you for pointing out what I don't want to see.

Thanks to you guys, I just went and edited my Geico car insurance and saved $37/month in about 10 minutes of effort.  Didn't realize I had full coverage on my old Honda Fit (doh!).


^what Laura said

You are struggling with this really teensy dilemma because you are struggling with money right now. If $26 is enough to be of concern, then I can't fathom expensive coffee being a priority.

When little decisions start being difficult, it's a sign that something bigger is of concern.

As usual, Malkynn said in three sentences what took me a page. . . .  So:  what Malkynn said.

BrightFIRE

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Re: How to make tiny decisions...
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2020, 02:17:04 PM »
I've had one for many years and never managed to break it. Good idea, but the problem is that metal filtered coffee makes my wife's tummy hurt. Paper removes more oils and makes it taste "cleaner".  Come to think of it, something else to add to my garage sale pile! I bet someone will give me $5 for it.

Congrats on the insurance savings!

Have you tried cold brewed coffee? I found that the slow extraction made for a smoother cup of coffee, even if you heat it up after - plus you get different flavor notes that get destroyed in the heated extraction process. This works quite well in a French press, which you say you already have.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!