Author Topic: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?  (Read 2863 times)

terran

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How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« on: November 01, 2017, 03:13:08 PM »
So it seems like many airlines are now offering an even worse level of economy fare as their lowest cost offering that. Not sitting together, having (presumably bad) seats assigned at the airport, and being more likely to be bumped are all kind of a bummer, but the biggest issue seems to be no overhead (under seat only) checked baggage.

In the past we've always travelled (even long term) with Osprey Porter 46 bags which are slightly oversized even for overhead, but we've only had to gate check a few times, but they're definitely over the under seat limits. Although I have volunteered to put it under the seat when they were tight on overhead space, and it worked fine.

The solutions I've come up with so far:

1) Suck it up and pay extra for regular economy. Seems like this would be as much as $25/person/way. We might go this route at least for my wife if we're cutting it close on times she needs to be back at work (I'm self employed). For shorter trips we could probably pack everything in her overhead bag.

2) Pay to check a bag which would also be $25/bag/way, still not have the other advantages for standard economy, but would let us pack more. We have family near NYC, so for international trips we sometimes use unconnected domestic tickets to get there, visit, then take international flights. In the future I'm thinking we might be able to get a larger bag that could fit both our carry on bags for the domestic flights, then just carry on for the international flights since they (so far) don't seem to be doing this basic economy business.

3) Get a branded credit card. I only looked quickly at American and United, but it looks like these carry $95 annual fees. I suppose it would pay off after 1-2 trips (depending on the alternative strategy), but it rubs me the wrong way. Anyone aware of any free cards that would get the overhead carry on back?

4) Figure out how to pack even lighter than we already do and go under seat only. This one appeals to me. My wife is skeptical. I think it would be possible to get a weeks worth of underwear and t-shirts under the seat, and wear whatever pants, sweaters, jackets we would need. She (rightly) points out that our families have some different expectations of what's appropriate, so we would need at least one alternate type of outer layer, which at least in winter (which is the next trip we're contemplating) could be a challenge to get under the seat. Another suggestion I had was leaving that outer layer with our family.

If we do try to go under seat only, any bag suggestions? I'd like a backpack rather than wheely suitcase. We're most likely to fly American and United (which seem to be the most restrictive) which have limits of 18 x 14 x 8 inches and 9 x 10 x 17 inches respectively, which would indicate a limit of 17 x 10 x 8 inches to fit within the low end of each dimension.

--

Any other suggestions? How are you dealing with the new fare class? Any suggestions on packing small enough for under seat carry on only (I'm intrigued by the challenge, maybe even for multiweek international trips, but unsure If I could pull it off)?

JetBlast

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2017, 05:43:36 PM »
From what I see Delta does not have the same baggage restriction. Basic Economy would board near the end so you are more likely to be asked to check the larger bag because bin space is full, but it would be free to do so.

If you think you are likely to fly United or American often then the branded cards might make a lot of sense. $95 can be recouped in bag fees in just a few trips.

MayDay

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2017, 06:06:09 PM »
We pay extra to fly Delta at this point.
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GizmoTX

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2017, 07:02:15 PM »
Basic Economy is what Spirit does for the entire plane. It's really easy to rack up fees with them that exceed what AA, United, or Delta charge. Spirit only flies 1 or 2 flights a day on a route, making it really risky if a plane has a malfunction -- the flight gets cancelled & you can't fly until the next day (or pay an enormous fee on another airline). We've flown Spirit a couple times, quick trips only, with baggage under the seat & no other fees, but we won't ever fly Spirit again. Their predatory policies & the risk of cancellation are just too great.

We have flown AA a lot & have Platinum status. Even with that, we are unlikely to fly Basic Economy & will go up to the next price point, as we almost always do carry-on only.

These days, when we can, we fly Southwest. No fees for baggage or having to change flight plans.

Ynari

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2017, 07:03:04 PM »
If you normally fly in pairs, split the difference and get one basic and one economy seat.

I normally try to fly southwest because I like the cut o' their jib, prices are comparable, and I prefer to fly out of less major airports usually. But they're not always an option, so I try to be cognizant of layers and layers of fees but in the end sometimes that's just the cost of these magical metal beasts that get us quickly to our destination.

Another Reader

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2017, 07:43:55 PM »
A squishy duffle bag can almost always be stuffed under the seat.  I can get two changes of clothes, and extra pair of shoes, and the various toiletries in one without a problem.

Zikoris

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2017, 08:01:25 PM »
We travel with one normal size backpack each, and have never had trouble getting them under the seats. I just make to book accommodation with laundry options around every four or five days during a trip, and bring less clothes.

We don't bring much - three tops and two bottoms each (including what we wear on the plane), five or six sets of socks/underwear each, and very basic travel-size shared toiletries (deodorant, toothpaste, floss, Tylenol, Benadryl). Throw in a hair brush, two tablets, and one portable video game system, swimsuits if applicable, and that's all we need to travel anywhere in the world.
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ketchup

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2017, 08:04:32 PM »
For the first time, this past weekend I flew with no checked bags, no carry on, and no "personal item."  It was glorious all-around.  Start with that ideal, and then work backwards to figure out the minimum amount of shit to drag along.

lizzzi

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2017, 08:29:56 AM »
Wear a Scottevest.

FiguringItOut

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2017, 11:47:02 AM »
Depending on the duration of your trips, I vote for less packing.

We fly Spirit a lot between NYC and Fort Lauderdale, at lease few times per year.  They allow a carry on bag for the overhead bin and a small personal item for under the seat.  The carry on size is limited, however, I found small duffels in Marshall's that fit the required size.  Both of my teens easily pack enough clothes for 5-6 days; however, they don't need to pack any toiletries at all, which helps (visiting grandparents).  And they can easily do laundry there as well.

I travel with regular size backpack, like school bookbag, no expanding pockets or anything.  This past August I traveled with this bag to Europe for 8 days.  I managed to pack in it a pair of keds, 3 pairs of slacks, 6 tops, light sweater, light jacket, small umbrella, folding small backpack to use for walking around, and mini size toiletries.  The weather in Holland and Belgium where I was in the 75*-80* so I need a bit warmer clothes.

However, on my way back to US, I flew to Florida (not home to NYC) to meet up with my kids and go on a 7 day cruise with them.  Because I needed some stuff for the cruise that I didn't have with me in Europe, I shipped a small box to my parents' address.  Once in Florida, I packed for the cruise (borrowed my parent's suitcase since compactness was not an issue for the cruise).  On the way back home to NYC, to pack everything, my initial backpack, my additional cruise stuff that was shipped to FL, and a ton of chocolate I brought back from Belgium, I ended up stuffing my backpack to the brim and also packing the small folding backpack that I had with me.

All in all, it all worked out.

BTW, last summer (2016) my daughter and I traveled to Germany/France for 10 days with the same school sized bookbags.  We were fine.  But I am a master at folding and packing things very compactly and using every little empty space. 

I cannot remember the last time I checked a bag.  It is so liberating to be able to get off the place, put on your backpack, and just walk out of the airport.






Syonyk

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2017, 12:23:39 PM »
I just don't fly the cheapest discount carrier I can find.  I'm pretty loyal to Southwest, and strongly prefer flying on them when I can (which is almost always).

By the time you tack on the various other fees and such, the savings aren't that great, and the experience on the discount carriers is awful.  Southwest's free checked bags things also neatly avoids the "I'm going to cram everything into the overhead bins" issue, followed by people having to go counterflow down the aisle to gate check bags, etc.  It's just a lot easier to deal with.

Plus, I rarely pay for personal flights anyway.  I have a points card that gets me SW credit, and my business travel is on SW, so I get the points from that as well.
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LifeHappens

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2017, 12:52:43 PM »
Basic Economy is what Spirit does for the entire plane. It's really easy to rack up fees with them that exceed what AA, United, or Delta charge. Spirit only flies 1 or 2 flights a day on a route, making it really risky if a plane has a malfunction -- the flight gets cancelled & you can't fly until the next day (or pay an enormous fee on another airline). We've flown Spirit a couple times, quick trips only, with baggage under the seat & no other fees, but we won't ever fly Spirit again. Their predatory policies & the risk of cancellation are just too great.

We have flown AA a lot & have Platinum status. Even with that, we are unlikely to fly Basic Economy & will go up to the next price point, as we almost always do carry-on only.

These days, when we can, we fly Southwest. No fees for baggage or having to change flight plans.
I have found this to be true with Allegiant as well. Plus, they have a wretched safety record! I'd rather suck it up and pay $25 more for a real airline.

Duke03

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2017, 01:46:53 PM »
I fly southwest only.  It helps that I have a companion pass and couple hundred thousand miles stashed away.  I'm a cheap skate like no other, but I draw the line when it comes to the lowest low cost airlines.  I'd spend a few extra bucks to fly with southwest any day as I know they won't nickel and dime you.  My neighbor recently flew Allegiant and both legs of his flights where delayed account it was too hot for the airplane to take off because they said the engines wouldn't generate enough lift.  Think about that for a second....... at the same time they sat at the gate and saw every other airline taking off and landing no problem.

FLBiker

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2017, 02:15:34 PM »
I fly southwest only.  It helps that I have a companion pass and couple hundred thousand miles stashed away.  I'm a cheap skate like no other, but I draw the line when it comes to the lowest low cost airlines.

+1

With credit card rewards, this is totally doable.  Here's what we're going to do.  In a couple of weeks, we're going to apply for one SW RR Plus card and one SW RR Premier Business card.  These earn 40000 and 60000 miles respectively, for a total of $170 in annual fee.  That 100000 miles counts towards the 110000 miles you need for a companion pass, which is good for the rest of a calendar year plus all of the next calendar year.  We should have our companion pass (and ~110K in miles) by April or so, and it will be good through December 2019.  We did the same thing about two years ago, hence our current companion pass is expiring at the end of this year.  Combine that with Chase Ultimate Rewards cards (which transfer 1:1 to SW) and we never pay for flights.  For us, since SW flies direct most places we want to go, it's made free (well, $170 every two years) travel very easy.

EarthSurfer

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2017, 05:05:35 AM »
For visiting the parents, we keep a small cache of winter wear and boots in the spare bedroom closets or family visits. Additionally, I have been known to ship clothing and gifts in advance via USPS or UPS using the shipping feature at PayPal (lower wholesale rates).

I must admit my expectations are far different than most. I have backpacked thousands of miles with one full set of clothing layers and a spare pair of underwear. I have been known to wear just my rain gear while sitting in the laundromat washing everything else.
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LifeHappens

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2017, 11:29:39 AM »
For visiting the parents, we keep a small cache of winter wear and boots in the spare bedroom closets or family visits.
I do this too. Really cuts down on the baggage needed to travel in winter.

mm1970

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2017, 01:52:35 PM »
I fly southwest only.  It helps that I have a companion pass and couple hundred thousand miles stashed away.  I'm a cheap skate like no other, but I draw the line when it comes to the lowest low cost airlines.  I'd spend a few extra bucks to fly with southwest any day as I know they won't nickel and dime you.  My neighbor recently flew Allegiant and both legs of his flights where delayed account it was too hot for the airplane to take off because they said the engines wouldn't generate enough lift.  Think about that for a second....... at the same time they sat at the gate and saw every other airline taking off and landing no problem.
I'm interested in the fact that people love Southwest.

I've never actually flown Southwest (though my MIL does), for several reasons.

1.  Can't look them up on a different website
2.  Can't pick your seats (true? not true?)
3.  Not convenient - they don't fly out of our local airport, so we'd have to drive 2 hours.  Which we do 90% of the time anyway.

So what's the bonus with Southwest?  My MIL flies them because they go out of her local airport, then takes the bus here when she visits.
But...there are 4 of us, which makes it less convenient.  And...my kids are young enough, I need to sit with them.

Syonyk

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2017, 03:52:47 PM »
1.  Can't look them up on a different website

No idea there - I always book via Southwest (or their business website).  Not a big deal.

Quote
2.  Can't pick your seats (true? not true?)

You sit wherever you want.  It's open seating, one class.  Some people love this, some people hate it.  Entry order is based on when you check in (which you can do online 24h before your flight), though if you want the early numbers (it really doesn't matter that much), you can pay an extra $15 per trip for super early check in.  This is useful if you want the extended legroom seating (overwing exit rows).

Quote
3.  Not convenient - they don't fly out of our local airport, so we'd have to drive 2 hours.  Which we do 90% of the time anyway.

Well, that's annoying.  Can't help you there. :)

Quote
But...there are 4 of us, which makes it less convenient.  And...my kids are young enough, I need to sit with them.

No problem at all.  If you've got kids under 6, you board between A and B groups, which means you have pretty much your pick of anything past the first third of the plane.  It's no problem at all to get a set of family seats, in whatever configuration you want.  Also, in general, nobody complains about you saving seats for family members if they're a bit behind you in the boarding line.  Boarding is pretty laid back.

Quote
So what's the bonus with Southwest?

I fly them for several reasons, many of which won't matter to an awful lot of people on this forum.

1. "No Bullshit" pricing.  What's listed is what I pay (and I'll usually toss in the $15/direction early boarding if I'm on business travel, and cover it out of pocket, because I like exit rows for working on a flight).  I don't pay per luggage item.  I don't pay for various extras.  I don't like being nickel and dimed, so I won't reward companies that do it with my business.
2. The free luggage means that people check their damned bags, instead of trying to cram everything in carry on and overhead bin space.  Gate checking and the subsequent reverse flow and boarding nonsense is basically eliminated.
3. Southwest's boarding is the fastest option out there (Mythbusters tested this pretty comprehensively, and while not the most satisfying, it was the fastest by a significant margin).

Reasons other people may not care about, but are important to me:
4. Boeing flies a fleet of purely 737s.  This has several subpoints:
4.1.  This means that their maintenance folks and crews aren't switching around airplanes regularly (the different revisions of 737 are pretty close to each other), which means they should be more familiar with the quirks of the airframe and have a better safety record.  Their safety record is excellent, which says they're doing something right.
4.2.  I prefer to fly on big birds over the regionals.  I have no particular complaints about the CRJs in terms of safety, but I simply don't like flying on them.  Every CRJ200 I've been on has a subtle undamped dutch roll at cruise, and it drives me nuts.
4.3. I refuse to fly on Airbus unless I have no alternative.  "If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going."  I fundamentally disagree with their flight system control philosophy, and AF447 crashing a perfectly solid airliner into the ocean is due to exactly the sort of UI confusion that the Airbus design philosophy creates.  There is no ambiguity in Boeing aircraft about what's being commanded, and I firmly believe AF447 could not have happened in a Boeing airliner, as the full nose up command would have been blindingly obvious to everyone in the cockpit (flight yoke in your nuts).  I don't think a pilot would have inadvertently commanded that either.
5. US carrier, flying US airplanes.  The 737 is built in Boeing factories, by Boeing craftsmen, in America.  I'll support that when feasible.
6. Employee-owned, and profitable even when the other airlines were declaring bankruptcy.  Southwest doesn't have any reasons to take shortcuts to save money, and the employees are rewarded heavily based on the company profits.  I've seen this in how descents are flown - it's rare to see someone flying a partial spoiler descent on Southwest - either it's clean all the way down (very efficient on fuel), or they're getting crowbarred ("toss a crowbar out and beat it down") and are on full spoilers, and that's just how descents to certain airports are flown.  I don't see the laziness I've seen on other airlines with partial spoilers on the way down and getting the airplane dirty really early into the landing.

So, basically, that's why I fly Southwest.  If they don't go where I need to go, I'll pick another carrier, but

I support what they do, I like how they fly, and if I am going somewhere that they don't cover, I'll pick a carrier that flies a pure Boeing fleet over someone who flies an Airbus fleet or a mixed fleet.
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RidetheRain

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2017, 03:53:25 PM »
I fly southwest only.  It helps that I have a companion pass and couple hundred thousand miles stashed away.  I'm a cheap skate like no other, but I draw the line when it comes to the lowest low cost airlines.  I'd spend a few extra bucks to fly with southwest any day as I know they won't nickel and dime you.  My neighbor recently flew Allegiant and both legs of his flights where delayed account it was too hot for the airplane to take off because they said the engines wouldn't generate enough lift.  Think about that for a second....... at the same time they sat at the gate and saw every other airline taking off and landing no problem.
I'm interested in the fact that people love Southwest.

I've never actually flown Southwest (though my MIL does), for several reasons.

1.  Can't look them up on a different website
2.  Can't pick your seats (true? not true?)
3.  Not convenient - they don't fly out of our local airport, so we'd have to drive 2 hours.  Which we do 90% of the time anyway.

So what's the bonus with Southwest?  My MIL flies them because they go out of her local airport, then takes the bus here when she visits.
But...there are 4 of us, which makes it less convenient.  And...my kids are young enough, I need to sit with them.

They have seating "groups" so that you can pick your seat, if you have an earlier group you have more choices. I think it's a bit extra, but you'd always have your family with you if you have a better seating group. The later ones (lowest of the low pricing) generally have to plead with neighbors. I've swapped before on Southwest so that families can sit together. Since you aren't assigned seats people are nicer about swapping.
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Syonyk

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2017, 04:18:22 PM »
They have seating "groups" so that you can pick your seat, if you have an earlier group you have more choices. I think it's a bit extra, but you'd always have your family with you if you have a better seating group. The later ones (lowest of the low pricing) generally have to plead with neighbors. I've swapped before on Southwest so that families can sit together. Since you aren't assigned seats people are nicer about swapping.

Not true in a useful form.  The only expensive group is the Business Select, which is A1-A15 (first boarding).  Beyond that, the Early Bird checkin (which can be applied to any seat price) gets you normally around to around A45 or so.  Sometimes B group, if you're on the -800s (or, if you're super lucky, a -MAX8) - they seat more passengers.  Otherwise, it's check in order, which you can do online up to 24h before the flight (and, yes, doing it at exactly 24h before makes a difference).  The price you pay has no impact on your boarding group beyond the above mentioned exceptions.

There was a time in my life when I was flying Southwest a lot...
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RidetheRain

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2017, 04:25:58 PM »
They have seating "groups" so that you can pick your seat, if you have an earlier group you have more choices. I think it's a bit extra, but you'd always have your family with you if you have a better seating group. The later ones (lowest of the low pricing) generally have to plead with neighbors. I've swapped before on Southwest so that families can sit together. Since you aren't assigned seats people are nicer about swapping.

Not true in a useful form.  The only expensive group is the Business Select, which is A1-A15 (first boarding).  Beyond that, the Early Bird checkin (which can be applied to any seat price) gets you normally around to around A45 or so.  Sometimes B group, if you're on the -800s (or, if you're super lucky, a -MAX8) - they seat more passengers.  Otherwise, it's check in order, which you can do online up to 24h before the flight (and, yes, doing it at exactly 24h before makes a difference).  The price you pay has no impact on your boarding group beyond the above mentioned exceptions.

There was a time in my life when I was flying Southwest a lot...

I dunno if that's true. I fly their cheapest "Gotta Get Away" fares. Even when I do Early Bird Checkin it puts me in group C at best.
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Syonyk

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2017, 04:29:36 PM »
I dunno if that's true. I fly their cheapest "Gotta Get Away" fares. Even when I do Early Bird Checkin it puts me in group C at best.

As do I.  And I regularly get into late A or early B.  Mid-B on the -800s.

When do you check in?  Exactly 24h prior to departure, or when you get to the airport?

Early Bird should never get you into the C group - if that's happening, check with the counter, because I've never seen Early Bird even into the Bs.
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retireatbirth

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2017, 06:10:36 PM »
Jetblue is great if they fly your route. I detest all other airlines, but I may try Southwest.

kimmarg

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2017, 08:47:24 PM »
1.  Can't look them up on a different website

No idea there - I always book via Southwest (or their business website).  Not a big deal.

Quote
2.  Can't pick your seats (true? not true?)

You sit wherever you want.  It's open seating, one class.  Some people love this, some people hate it.  Entry order is based on when you check in (which you can do online 24h before your flight), though if you want the early numbers (it really doesn't matter that much), you can pay an extra $15 per trip for super early check in.  This is useful if you want the extended legroom seating (overwing exit rows).

Quote
3.  Not convenient - they don't fly out of our local airport, so we'd have to drive 2 hours.  Which we do 90% of the time anyway.

Well, that's annoying.  Can't help you there. :)

Quote
But...there are 4 of us, which makes it less convenient.  And...my kids are young enough, I need to sit with them.

No problem at all.  If you've got kids under 6, you board between A and B groups, which means you have pretty much your pick of anything past the first third of the plane.  It's no problem at all to get a set of family seats, in whatever configuration you want.  Also, in general, nobody complains about you saving seats for family members if they're a bit behind you in the boarding line.  Boarding is pretty laid back.

Quote
So what's the bonus with Southwest?

I fly them for several reasons, many of which won't matter to an awful lot of people on this forum.

1. "No Bullshit" pricing.  What's listed is what I pay (and I'll usually toss in the $15/direction early boarding if I'm on business travel, and cover it out of pocket, because I like exit rows for working on a flight).  I don't pay per luggage item.  I don't pay for various extras.  I don't like being nickel and dimed, so I won't reward companies that do it with my business.
2. The free luggage means that people check their damned bags, instead of trying to cram everything in carry on and overhead bin space.  Gate checking and the subsequent reverse flow and boarding nonsense is basically eliminated.
3. Southwest's boarding is the fastest option out there (Mythbusters tested this pretty comprehensively, and while not the most satisfying, it was the fastest by a significant margin).

Reasons other people may not care about, but are important to me:
4. Boeing flies a fleet of purely 737s.  This has several subpoints:
4.1.  This means that their maintenance folks and crews aren't switching around airplanes regularly (the different revisions of 737 are pretty close to each other), which means they should be more familiar with the quirks of the airframe and have a better safety record.  Their safety record is excellent, which says they're doing something right.
4.2.  I prefer to fly on big birds over the regionals.  I have no particular complaints about the CRJs in terms of safety, but I simply don't like flying on them.  Every CRJ200 I've been on has a subtle undamped dutch roll at cruise, and it drives me nuts.
4.3. I refuse to fly on Airbus unless I have no alternative.  "If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going."  I fundamentally disagree with their flight system control philosophy, and AF447 crashing a perfectly solid airliner into the ocean is due to exactly the sort of UI confusion that the Airbus design philosophy creates.  There is no ambiguity in Boeing aircraft about what's being commanded, and I firmly believe AF447 could not have happened in a Boeing airliner, as the full nose up command would have been blindingly obvious to everyone in the cockpit (flight yoke in your nuts).  I don't think a pilot would have inadvertently commanded that either.
5. US carrier, flying US airplanes.  The 737 is built in Boeing factories, by Boeing craftsmen, in America.  I'll support that when feasible.
6. Employee-owned, and profitable even when the other airlines were declaring bankruptcy.  Southwest doesn't have any reasons to take shortcuts to save money, and the employees are rewarded heavily based on the company profits.  I've seen this in how descents are flown - it's rare to see someone flying a partial spoiler descent on Southwest - either it's clean all the way down (very efficient on fuel), or they're getting crowbarred ("toss a crowbar out and beat it down") and are on full spoilers, and that's just how descents to certain airports are flown.  I don't see the laziness I've seen on other airlines with partial spoilers on the way down and getting the airplane dirty really early into the landing.

So, basically, that's why I fly Southwest.  If they don't go where I need to go, I'll pick another carrier, but

I support what they do, I like how they fly, and if I am going somewhere that they don't cover, I'll pick a carrier that flies a pure Boeing fleet over someone who flies an Airbus fleet or a mixed fleet.

I pretty much second this entire post.  In regards to your original questions

1. I only fly southwest (unless international) so I don't have to mess with a million 'lowest price' websties

2. Yep you don't pick your seat but all seats go to your destination! You get over it.

3. sorry. They are local to me and I sometime drive the 2 hours to get the direct flight to my destination

4. To second the points above they always fly 737s This means when an aircraft breaks, the replacement aircraft has the same number of seats.
4.2 no CRJ. My home airport is fairly small. The other carries tend to send about 50/50 CRJ and bigger aircraft. CRJ make me air sick, but I'm fine on 737 or bigger.
4.4 Southwest is the only airline with entirely Cat III rated 737. This means their aircraft and flight crews have the highest rating in terms of instrumentation which means if it's legal to land, they can land. Smaller aircraft have higher ceiling and approach minimums and may go on weather hold while Southwest gets in.

Syonyk

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2017, 09:12:19 PM »
4.4 Southwest is the only airline with entirely Cat III rated 737. This means their aircraft and flight crews have the highest rating in terms of instrumentation which means if it's legal to land, they can land. Smaller aircraft have higher ceiling and approach minimums and may go on weather hold while Southwest gets in.

Wow, I didn't realize that - that's pretty cool!  I rarely fly to place with bad weather.
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Indexer

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2017, 07:03:57 AM »
How to deal with basic economy?  Embrace it! Thank the airlines for creating a fare class just for minimalists,
 and mustachians!

The person who brought more stuff and doesn't want to get bumped pays a higher price. The person who travels light and is flexible pays less. Makes a lot of sense to me.

I travel with a backpack, and it's not to avoid fees. I do it to be quick. Nothing to check means I get to skip the check in process, skip the waiting on my bag process, I don't have to worry about them losing my stuff, AND once I get to my destination I don't have to rush straight to the hotel(or other sleeping location). I can still explore with my backpack on.

I picked it up from the minimalist podcast. No matter how long your trip is 1 backpack should be fine. It can hold 3 pairs of pants or jeans(or even more shorts), 5 days worth of underwear/socks, and 5 shirts easily if you pack right. Even room for a cell phone charger, toothbrush, and a book to read. ;-) Any trip longer than 5 days, use a washing machine... If you will need a jacket where you will be going then wear it onto the plane, and then take it off.

terran

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2017, 08:43:15 AM »
Thanks all! Keep 'em coming!

Totally agree with the Southwest comments -- they're actual human beings. Unfortunately they don't fly out of the airport that's 30 minutes away, but the one that's 2 hours away, and don't fly direct from there to NYC, so probably not the way to go when we're going to visit family.

 
For visiting the parents, we keep a small cache of winter wear and boots in the spare bedroom closets or family visits. Additionally, I have been known to ship clothing and gifts in advance via USPS or UPS using the shipping feature at PayPal (lower wholesale rates).

I must admit my expectations are far different than most. I have backpacked thousands of miles with one full set of clothing layers and a spare pair of underwear. I have been known to wear just my rain gear while sitting in the laundromat washing everything else.

Lol, I have this image of your in full on gordan's fisherman gear (including the hat) sitting in the laundromat.

I think leaving clothes with family could be a good idea. We'll have to go through a winter living here to see whether we can leave the winter boots or not I think. Shipping could be a good idea too, although that's getting really expensive these days. Thanks for the paypal wholesale shipping tip.

If you normally fly in pairs, split the difference and get one basic and one economy seat.

I think that might be what we'll do when my wife is on a tighter schedule needing to be back to work and we don't want to risk burning a vacation day. I work for myself, so it's not as big a deal if I get bumped.

A squishy duffle bag can almost always be stuffed under the seat.  I can get two changes of clothes, and extra pair of shoes, and the various toiletries in one without a problem.

We travel with one normal size backpack each, and have never had trouble getting them under the seats. I just make to book accommodation with laundry options around every four or five days during a trip, and bring less clothes.

We don't bring much - three tops and two bottoms each (including what we wear on the plane), five or six sets of socks/underwear each, and very basic travel-size shared toiletries (deodorant, toothpaste, floss, Tylenol, Benadryl). Throw in a hair brush, two tablets, and one portable video game system, swimsuits if applicable, and that's all we need to travel anywhere in the world.

What size are these squishy duffels and backpacks you all are bringing? What you're able to fit sounds pretty doable, but I'm having a hard time seeing it fitting in the 17 x 10 x 8 limit -- maybe it would though. Have you found that as long as you can squish it in to the boxes at the gate one way or another you're fine, or does each dimension need to be within limit when free standing?

For the first time, this past weekend I flew with no checked bags, no carry on, and no "personal item."  It was glorious all-around.  Start with that ideal, and then work backwards to figure out the minimum amount of shit to drag along.

That's awesome! Did you go with "just the clothes on your back" or did you find ways to pack more on yourself in one way or another? How long were you gone for?

How to deal with basic economy?  Embrace it! Thank the airlines for creating a fare class just for minimalists,
 and mustachians!

The person who brought more stuff and doesn't want to get bumped pays a higher price. The person who travels light and is flexible pays less. Makes a lot of sense to me.

I travel with a backpack, and it's not to avoid fees. I do it to be quick. Nothing to check means I get to skip the check in process, skip the waiting on my bag process, I don't have to worry about them losing my stuff, AND once I get to my destination I don't have to rush straight to the hotel(or other sleeping location). I can still explore with my backpack on.

I picked it up from the minimalist podcast. No matter how long your trip is 1 backpack should be fine. It can hold 3 pairs of pants or jeans(or even more shorts), 5 days worth of underwear/socks, and 5 shirts easily if you pack right. Even room for a cell phone charger, toothbrush, and a book to read. ;-) Any trip longer than 5 days, use a washing machine... If you will need a jacket where you will be going then wear it onto the plane, and then take it off.

You fit all that under the seat? That's pretty similar to what I pack for our multiweek international travel (fewer pants actually), but have only ever done overhead. Totally agree on the benefits of carry on only, and I've been doing that for awhile, it's the new underseat only requirements I'm less sure about. What size is your bag?

Zikoris

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2017, 10:48:13 AM »
Quote
We travel with one normal size backpack each, and have never had trouble getting them under the seats. I just make to book accommodation with laundry options around every four or five days during a trip, and bring less clothes.

We don't bring much - three tops and two bottoms each (including what we wear on the plane), five or six sets of socks/underwear each, and very basic travel-size shared toiletries (deodorant, toothpaste, floss, Tylenol, Benadryl). Throw in a hair brush, two tablets, and one portable video game system, swimsuits if applicable, and that's all we need to travel anywhere in the world.

What size are these squishy duffels and backpacks you all are bringing? What you're able to fit sounds pretty doable, but I'm having a hard time seeing it fitting in the 17 x 10 x 8 limit -- maybe it would though. Have you found that as long as you can squish it in to the boxes at the gate one way or another you're fine, or does each dimension need to be within limit when free standing?

I haven't measured it, but here's what we look like full loaded down (I took this right before we left for the airport after a few weeks in Asia):



No airline has ever looked twice at out backpacks, and we've been to literally dozens of airports.
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Indexer

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2017, 11:14:52 AM »
Quote
I picked it up from the minimalist podcast. No matter how long your trip is 1 backpack should be fine. It can hold 3 pairs of pants or jeans(or even more shorts), 5 days worth of underwear/socks, and 5 shirts easily if you pack right. Even room for a cell phone charger, toothbrush, and a book to read. ;-) Any trip longer than 5 days, use a washing machine... If you will need a jacket where you will be going then wear it onto the plane, and then take it off.

You fit all that under the seat? That's pretty similar to what I pack for our multiweek international travel (fewer pants actually), but have only ever done overhead. Totally agree on the benefits of carry on only, and I've been doing that for awhile, it's the new underseat only requirements I'm less sure about. What size is your bag?

Standard sized book bag. I used the one I've had since college. It fits under the seat without any problems. Hint:if you aren't already doing this, don't fold the clothes, roll them. If you have the common 3 compartment bookbag you can easily fit 3 pairs of jeans and 2-3 shirts in the main back compartment. 2-3 shirts + underwear/socks in the mid sized middle compartment. Smaller items like your book, cell phone charger, toothbrush, etc. go in the front smallest compartment.

Edit: like the backback in Zikoris' picture.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 11:20:44 AM by Indexer »

neverrun

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2017, 04:45:06 PM »
I don't get the love for Southwest.  I don't find them to be any cheaper or any better than other US airlines. 

As far as dealing with basic economy, I just embrace it.  If I need the extra services of regular economy I pay more for it, just the same as how I paid more for economy comfort on a 14 hour flight last year.   

Cashonda

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2017, 04:33:54 PM »
I think if you are traveling for a week and visiting family you can definitely get by with a small backpack that fits under the seat. Wear your jacket and if you have to bring 2... I dont know why you would but hey if you do you do :) ...  then you can wear them both on the plane! Usually you can take off your jacket and carry it and it doesnt count toward the baggage restrictions but I am not sure about the new rules. The low cost airlines in Europe have been doing this for years. Ticket is Ä19 but the luggage costs Ä30. I once saw a guy wearing 3 layers of clothes and his towel as a cape to avoid his baggage fee. :D

If you are visiting family I assume they have laundry machines and so you only need 2-3 of anything for a week or two. I honestly bring 3 pairs of underwear and socks on every trip. When they get holes I throw them out and buy new ones. I'd rather bring an extra cute dress than an extra pair of underwear and socks. If I have water I can do laundry.

I recently discovered packing cubes, I thought they were a dumb hoax because it was adding something to your luggage to make it smaller.. that didnt make sense. But they kind of work! They organize your stuff and compact it so that it is less messy and bulky. I use a few small ones in my backpack which is just one big open space. Maybe give that a try?

I'd go for a backpack size of 20-25 liters or so if you want it to fit under the seat. Maybe get one that can extend so you can shove your coat in there after the flight.

Another option is to pay the $25 for one piece of luggage and share that luggage. You can easily travel with one rolling bag and a small backpack between a couple for a week. You can share toothpaste and other essentials, or better yet steal all that stuff from your family! haha

There are lots of awesome resources online for packing light and it is pretty easy unless you have to bring some crazy equipment with you. My stupid DSLR is so bulky and heavy it annoys me, but I love taking photos! Packing light is a fun challenge that I am always trying to get better at. I read about a guy who travels without any bag - just cellphone, wallet and toothbrush in his pocket. So free!

RidetheRain

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2017, 05:29:18 PM »
I travel for work often so I spend a lot of time on planes. I can get a full weeks worth of work clothes in a backpack with my laptop no problem. Just have to make sure the hotel has an iron! I generally do this for ease of travel since the company pays my fees, but I definitely go with cheap airlines when I can since I'm already used to traveling this way. I take proper luggage in two scenarios: when I temporarily moved for six months and at Christmas time to accommodate for larger gifts/gifts you can't take through security.

More than a week tips: aim for a place with a coin laundry nearby (or use your hosts), bring lightweight items. A sport t-shirt is much thinner than a regular t-shirt but is acceptable in all the same situations. Don't buy into the packing cube industry unless you suck at folding. Packing cubes are a step up from shoving crap in your bag, but a step down from careful folding.
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GoConfidently

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2017, 09:00:38 PM »
What are you wearing as your outer layer that would be considered inappropriate by your family? Will they kick you out if your jacket isnít stylish enough?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 06:07:10 AM by GoConfidently »

Syonyk

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2017, 10:27:25 PM »
Flying "not economy airlines" is normally a perk of work travel...

Got me 4 legs of over wing exit row on Southwest recently. Not first class but I'll take it!
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FindingFI

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2017, 06:12:37 AM »
Just sucked it up and bought regular economy tickets on United instead of the basic economy for a trip to Yellowstone.  Unfortunately Southwest doesn't fly anywhere near our destination.  Between not sitting together, not being allowed the overhead carry on and needing to deal with baggage claim, and not earning miles with basic economy it seemed worth the small increase in ticket price.  I used to always buy the cheapest available flight and ticket class, so paying more still doesn't sit quite right with me, but it's done.

ysette9

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2017, 01:58:07 PM »
I just bought tickets on American and didnít even consider the last class seats for a moment. Do I need to give them an excuse to treat me even worse? Flying is so miserable as it is. I drink a ton of water and sitting still in airplane seats is torture to me. Hence, i need an aisle seat so I can get up to pee and stretch my legs. That is worth paying more to me. Last time I flew I was 29 weeks pregnant. I moved heaven and earth to endure I got my aisle seat. This time I am flying with a baby. You can bet I am going to take advantage of checking a bag and stashing something in the overhead bin. Traveling with an infant is tough enough as it is.

Another me in another lifetime might have been okay with these changes, but not now. Flying used to be romantic and now it is agony. I am interested in that which can make it less unpleasant, not more.
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Goldielocks

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2017, 01:39:23 AM »
A squishy duffle bag can almost always be stuffed under the seat.  I can get two changes of clothes, and extra pair of shoes, and the various toiletries in one without a problem.

Quote
What size are these squishy duffels and backpacks you all are bringing? What you're able to fit sounds pretty doable, but I'm having a hard time seeing it fitting in the 17 x 10 x 8 limit -- maybe it would though. Have you found that as long as you can squish it in to the boxes at the gate one way or another you're fine, or does each dimension need to be within limit when free standing?


For the 17x10x8 soft duffle:  First, because the bag is smaller, it does not need backpack straps, just the one long over shoulder/body strap.   It is boxy and roomy as well...

Next,  get a duffle that is 30% larger than these dimensions, but don't over fill it -- take out our sweater / jacket / book / water bottle and carry those in your hands on board.  The semi-empty duffle now scrunches up to 17 x 10 x 8  (actually one of your seat areas usually will fit a larger bag than this under one of the seats, between you and your spouse, unless you are in a mini jet).

When you get to your destination, you can put all your extra stuff back into the bag for easy transporting around the airport terminal.

A huge key to this is to not travel with a PC, just a smallish tablet.   When I travelled for work, for 3 days, I could fit it all just barely under the seat, but damn didn't my 17 inch laptop  and file folder take up half the space.   All you need to pack is light toiletries, hair brush, underwear,socks a spare pair of pants, and a casual t-shirt or two or a lightweight dress, while wearing your button down shirt, jacket/sweater, pants on the plane.  I could wear the t-shirt as pjs.  This would get me through 2.5 days of business meetings including dinners or out for a stroll for fresh air or other activity in casual clothes.    Hot weather needs an extra shirt one in reserve for overnight sink wash and ironing the next day.

TomTX

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2017, 06:02:47 AM »
In the past we've always travelled (even long term) with Osprey Porter 46 bags which are slightly oversized even for overhead, but we've only had to gate check a few times, but they're definitely over the under seat limits. Although I have volunteered to put it under the seat when they were tight on overhead space, and it worked fine.


If you don't mind red, the same bag is in the REI Garage for <$100, and is eligible for the 20% off one item (I may later regret posting this, as I am considering it myself)

https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/product/125768/osprey-porter-46-travel-pack
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freya

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2017, 07:07:27 AM »
One thing about basic economy to be aware of:  you don't get frequent flier miles.  So it never makes sense to buy a basic economy ticket and then pay a fee to check a bag.

I fly/travel so often on business that I tag vacations or family visits onto existing trips.  This means, however, that I have to pack for business and leisure at the same time - and I do it in a carryon bag regardless of the trip length (up to a month) or destination (international).  Packing for a non-business family visit or vacation in a day pack would be laughably easy for me, unless it's a trip where you're bringing a lot of gear.  If visiting family, I just borrow sweaters and outerwear as needed.  I also swear by packing cubes - you stand them up and stuff them like a sleeping bag.  I can get a whole conference wardrobe (minus shoes) into a single small cube that way. Rolling up items before stuffing keeps them from getting too wrinkled, though it helps to pick materials that pack well.  Usually that means synthetics like polyester/spandex.

 It's annoying that Basic Economy was not a price cut, just an excuse to increase fares for "regular" economy.  This is what happens with a monopoly.  There seriously needs to be another AT&T-style breakup, and I am wondering why all these airline mergers have been allowed to happen.




dcozad999

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2017, 08:08:01 AM »
Just a note on the AA Advantage card. I had it for years and never once had to pay the annual fee.  Back when I got it the first year was waived, and every year thereafter, they would waive the fee when I called in to cancel it.  The last two years they wouldn't flat out waive it, but would credit it back to me if I spent some small amount in the next 60 days. So if you use it as an everyday card, you probably would only have to pay it the first year.

ketchup

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2017, 08:37:25 AM »
Just a note on the AA Advantage card. I had it for years and never once had to pay the annual fee.  Back when I got it the first year was waived, and every year thereafter, they would waive the fee when I called in to cancel it.  The last two years they wouldn't flat out waive it, but would credit it back to me if I spent some small amount in the next 60 days. So if you use it as an everyday card, you probably would only have to pay it the first year.
Is this the Citi or the Barclay one?

dcozad999

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2017, 12:41:38 PM »
Citi

E.T.

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2017, 02:29:45 PM »
Another backpack traveler here. I've been flying that way on trips a few times a year since I was about 18. People used to tease me for it but now with basic economy fares, my family has all switched to backpacks too. Usually they are week long trips, sometimes for business. I have washed clothes at hotels before but usually I don't need to. If I'm on business, my dress shirts and an extra pair of pants all roll nicely in to a backpack. If I'm on vacation, I swear by dresses since they're light and easy to pack. If I'm going somewhere cold I pack the same things with tights and wear my jacket on the plane. I like using solid shampoo like Lush and for long trips, I'll bring a baggie of solid laundry detergent. I've washed sun dresses in hostel sinks before, so you don't necessarily need to find a laundromat if you're good at handwashing things. I aim to look put together on trips, so little things like jewelry and a scarf can help make great outfits without taking up a lot of space. Sorry my tips may not be as useful for a man, but it's definitely possible to travel light and I'm happy that it's cheaper now than when I started flying.
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icemodeled

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2017, 07:39:23 PM »
We are one of those who pack extremely light. We actually like this anyways, less to worry about. We go with the cheapest option which doesn't offer free checked/carry on bags but ONLY a personal item. This can include purses or backpacks which is what we use. You can fit a decent amount of items inside a large purse or backpack. We will normally wear jackets that we take so we don't need to shove them in bags.

We don't like the idea of not being able to sit together(southwest) but we haven't not been able to yet. We also fly with Allegiant, they let you choose seating so we don't worry about that with them.

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2017, 09:07:34 PM »
In the past we've always travelled (even long term) with Osprey Porter 46 bags which are slightly oversized even for overhead, but we've only had to gate check a few times, but they're definitely over the under seat limits. Although I have volunteered to put it under the seat when they were tight on overhead space, and it worked fine.


If you don't mind red, the same bag is in the REI Garage for <$100, and is eligible for the 20% off one item (I may later regret posting this, as I am considering it myself)

https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/product/125768/osprey-porter-46-travel-pack

Just a caution, DH bought a porter 46 for our europe trip, and it was required to be checked both by Air Transat, as well as Easyjet.  It's the 22 inch length, which some people get away with by placing long ways in the overhead bin (taking space from others)... and absolutely will not fit safely under the seat (trip hazard).  He loves the bag because of its long backlength, but it does need checking often.

Lady SA

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2017, 09:42:08 PM »
DH and I generally fly Delta -- we scour for the best prices and at least out of our airport, Delta wins. We do backpack travelling also, but always volunteer to check our bags at the gate, it's free and then we don't have to deal with the headache of finding overhead space. We bring a few books, snacks, whatever with us in my purse, but otherwise we are usually completely unencumbered on the plane.
We also like the fact we can select our seats ahead of time (we are cheap so these seats are always in the last few rows of the plane, if not THE last row) -- then we board at the last minute. I am always confused by all the people who rush to cram themselves into a tin can as soon as they open for boarding. I'd rather have the extra 20 minutes to stretch my legs in the terminal, thank you very much :)
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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2017, 04:49:59 AM »
We've only flown SW a few times in our life.  The last time we flew them (there are 6 of us), the connection time was really tight (my fault when I booked it), and we were the last ones to get on the plane, so we were pretty much split up, except me and my daughters sat in the last row.  It wasn't bad, but I really just do not like not being able to know in advance where I'm going to sit.  Overall, SW personnel are very nice.  And I did like that Midway in Chicago is dedicated SW.  That made things very easy.  It's my understanding that starting sometime in 2018, SW will now be flying to Hawaii.  Do not know if I would want to be on that long of a flight without having a seat assignment.

egillespie

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2017, 06:11:38 AM »
Regarding Allegiant and safety, many of their employees are under new and much improved collective bargaining agreements.  They are also undergoing a fleet modernization, switching from old MD-80s to new Airbus aircraft. 

They are literally a different airline than just a couple years ago.   The reputation they once had should not dissuade you.

dcozad999

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2017, 08:31:53 AM »
In the past we've always travelled (even long term) with Osprey Porter 46 bags which are slightly oversized even for overhead, but we've only had to gate check a few times, but they're definitely over the under seat limits. Although I have volunteered to put it under the seat when they were tight on overhead space, and it worked fine.


If you don't mind red, the same bag is in the REI Garage for <$100, and is eligible for the 20% off one item (I may later regret posting this, as I am considering it myself)

https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/product/125768/osprey-porter-46-travel-pack

Just a caution, DH bought a porter 46 for our europe trip, and it was required to be checked both by Air Transat, as well as Easyjet.  It's the 22 inch length, which some people get away with by placing long ways in the overhead bin (taking space from others)... and absolutely will not fit safely under the seat (trip hazard).  He loves the bag because of its long backlength, but it does need checking often.


Amazon has the black osprey 46 for $84 this morning:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06X194J4S/ref=sxts_1?tag=slickdeals&ascsubtag=2ce88d8ecae311e78c568e47b639583f0INT&ie=UTF8&qid=1510816087&sr=1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&th=1&psc=1

LifeHappens

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Re: How to deal with airlines new "basic economy" fare class?
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2017, 10:06:23 AM »
Regarding Allegiant and safety, many of their employees are under new and much improved collective bargaining agreements.  They are also undergoing a fleet modernization, switching from old MD-80s to new Airbus aircraft. 

They are literally a different airline than just a couple years ago.   The reputation they once had should not dissuade you.
I'll have to look into this. I honestly began to fear for my safety on Allegiant, especially after the aborted takeoff incident in Vegas a couple years back.