Author Topic: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps  (Read 61958 times)

DieHard_772

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2017, 03:56:56 PM »
I would also recommend the book, "Your Money or Your Life". Listen to the audiobook in her presence, maybe?

Good idea, I have a copy of it I read last year, we tracked our money in and money out for two months, which was quite
interesting, but to be honest, even for me it just seemed like more work than i wanted to do!  But she was willing to go
along with it.

Since december, our communication has improved.  I have been hearing her out more, and we are getting along better
over all with spending. 

Yesterday we had our 5 year anniversary, and we went out to lunch with a $50 gift card she had (her idea!), we got
our parking validated so it was free, and we rented a movie for $4 instead of spending probably $25 going out to a movie.
Most of this was her idea, so that is a win!

Several times lately she has also said she is a "convert" to this way of thinking.  For instance, she is a big fan of our shopping
regime... one a month shopping trips that we make to Dollar Tree/Grocery Outlet/Costco (usually in that order) with only a
few items we get a Safeway. 
We mostly eat at home nowadays, and this works with her diet anyway, which is quite restricted (no sugar, no or little carb)

She has even agreed to save 10% of her income from a new teaching gig she is starting... 5% for our HSa, and 5% for her IRA.
This is progress!

I am seeing the progress that comes from listening to her better and working on our communication.



lifejoy

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2017, 05:22:11 PM »
Sounds like it's going really well :)

It can definitely take time. My DH and I just today were chuckling about some of his past spendy inclinations, as in we can't even believe that was him! We've come a long way.

Sounds like you two are a great team :)

crossfit_mike

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #52 on: March 05, 2017, 06:31:16 PM »
Amazing list!! Thanks for this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

lifejoy

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #53 on: March 13, 2017, 08:38:33 PM »
Amazing list!! Thanks for this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hope it helps! :)
Feel free to add your own ideas in the comments!

DieHard_772

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #54 on: March 14, 2017, 08:42:08 AM »
Sounds like it's going really well :)

It can definitely take time. My DH and I just today were chuckling about some of his past spendy inclinations, as in we can't even believe that was him! We've come a long way.

Sounds like you two are a great team :)

We have definitely been making progress.  My wife and I talk more productively about money nowadays.

Positive signs:
--We continue planning our grocery shopping, and basically staying within budget of $400/mo (I probably can be more insistent on keeping exactly within the budget, yet last year we literally saved about $3000 through this strategy)
--We are clearing out a storage space of mostly her old stuff and that will save $84/mo.  (Still need to go through a lot of boxes and figure out where to store in our home... we also plan on selling and releasing a lot of it)
--My wife is now investing each month, and promises to put aside an extra 10% of the income from her new teaching gig for investing
--We have discussed the possibility of becoming a one-car family, possibly going the Prius/hybrid/electric route. 
--She says she is on board and gets what I'm doing, she also acknowledges that I am leading us in a good direction, and this empowers me to feel good about it



lifejoy

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #55 on: March 14, 2017, 09:48:31 PM »
Sounds like it's going really well :)

It can definitely take time. My DH and I just today were chuckling about some of his past spendy inclinations, as in we can't even believe that was him! We've come a long way.

Sounds like you two are a great team :)

We have definitely been making progress.  My wife and I talk more productively about money nowadays.

Positive signs:
--We continue planning our grocery shopping, and basically staying within budget of $400/mo (I probably can be more insistent on keeping exactly within the budget, yet last year we literally saved about $3000 through this strategy)
--We are clearing out a storage space of mostly her old stuff and that will save $84/mo.  (Still need to go through a lot of boxes and figure out where to store in our home... we also plan on selling and releasing a lot of it)
--My wife is now investing each month, and promises to put aside an extra 10% of the income from her new teaching gig for investing
--We have discussed the possibility of becoming a one-car family, possibly going the Prius/hybrid/electric route. 
--She says she is on board and gets what I'm doing, she also acknowledges that I am leading us in a good direction, and this empowers me to feel good about it

These small steps really add up! I'm seeing giant strides of progress here! Way to go!!!

startbyservingothers

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #56 on: March 15, 2017, 01:17:47 PM »
Really great list.  I like the advice about being helpful rather than critical.  It's easy to tell someone "They need to be doing better."  It takes much more effort to do the work yourself in order to capture the savings.  I.e.  Cooking as an alternative to eating out.  Packing a lunch that they will love, cleaning the house rather than having a cleaner (Using a cleaner is borderline to a justifiable reason for an Annulment in my book, but cleaning is a credible example.)  Overall creating solutions by playing to your strengths is an answer.

I'm fortunate enough to have a partner that has always been fairly tolerant of my cheap* and frugal* behavior.  I convinced her to ready Early Retirement Extreme, which was probably a bad place to start, but it did have the effect of further clarifying a starting point of what my 'needs' and 'dreams' are.  Her initial reaction was that we were going to be living in a trailer park depriving ourselves or something along those lines.  After things sinking in that we could still enjoy ourselves she became much more accepting.

Next, what started as one of the biggest obstacles, really created a huge synergy.  We hit a major roadblock when it came to having kids.  I was pretty certain I did not want to have any (Expensive, constraints, etc.)  She was very certain she did want to have them.  Being in our early 30's began to push this into a  "Now or never" type of situation.  Without a solution on this, splitting up seemed to be a likely outcome.

First I read a book titled "Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids"  By Bryan Caplan.  I didn't care for the writing style.  A two star rating would be generous for this book.  -  However it was what I needed to read, and by the end of it I was more amicable to the idea of having kid(s).  I reached the conclusion that the biggest reasons I didn't want to have kids were: 

1. Money - Kids are expensive. 
2. I hated my job.  - Having kids would make having that job, or a similar crappy job necessary.   
3.  Raising a kid is today's modern society.  -  Both parents working full time, while the kid(s) go to daycare just doesn't speak "Family Values" to me.  Sure some kids may love daycare, but what's the point of having kid(s) you don't spend time with? 
4.  Environmental impact of having a child.  - If you care about the environment you understand this reason already. 
5.   Fear of divorce / broken family - Most people don't like talking about this, but this is a big fear for many people.  While some people just "Go with the flow" and "Worry about the consequences later"  having a child with someone conjured up images of "Paying child support for a kid you never see." etc.

We talked about these things, and I showed her the posts on MMM's child bearing expenses.  At some point in time I convinced her to read the full list of MMM blog posts.  She started buying used baby items on Craigslist / Close 5 at great prices.  We would get a good enough deal that even if she had second thoughts about the item, she would turn around and sell the item for a profit.

Also, I took some time off from my work to decide whether I wanted to start my own business, go back to my career, or change careers, and/or be a stay at home parent. 

I apologize that our scenario can be duplicated by very few people.  The points to take away from myself and Ops post are: ****

1.  Put forth the effort.
2.  Be positive.  **
3.  Make use of your strengths.
4.  Be balanced.  You and your Sig. Other both have a unique set of needs.
5.  Display excellent communication skills. ***
6.  Be patient.

7?  This is touchy subject since you're certainly "In love."  But (especially) if you don't have kids, or a similar obligation, you might consider whether you are compatible to be together long term.  I.e.  Are you satisfied being with someone set out to undermine your financial well being?  In our case, we both had something "We had to have." and we were fortunate enough to both get what we want with minimal sacrifice. 


*  Cheap is oftentimes bad.  Frugal is typically a positive trait.   By nature I'm cheap, but I've been trying to become more frugal.
** I haven't always been positive, but I've been much more positive in the last few years, than previously.
***I am convinced your financial communication often reflects your overall communication as a couple.  If you're fighting over money,  I'll put my money on there being other issues you are having communication problems with as well.
**** I am giving credit for any of these that represent Ops post.  Some may only be my opinion.
startbyservingothers
www.afullyear.com

DieHard_772

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2017, 02:15:40 PM »
Sounds like it's going really well :)

It can definitely take time. My DH and I just today were chuckling about some of his past spendy inclinations, as in we can't even believe that was him! We've come a long way.

Sounds like you two are a great team :)

Hey thanks,
Getting better at our communication all the time.
We already have a lot of great things going for us together: lots of fun together, enjoy being together, similar ways we like to live day-to-day, and we're both
complimentary in our creativity and professions.  so there's a really great foundation there.  Obviously the money thing was an important missing link, and things are definitely moving along...  Thanks for this post, it helped for sure

We have definitely been making progress.  My wife and I talk more productively about money nowadays.

Positive signs:
--We continue planning our grocery shopping, and basically staying within budget of $400/mo (I probably can be more insistent on keeping exactly within the budget, yet last year we literally saved about $3000 through this strategy)
--We are clearing out a storage space of mostly her old stuff and that will save $84/mo.  (Still need to go through a lot of boxes and figure out where to store in our home... we also plan on selling and releasing a lot of it)
--My wife is now investing each month, and promises to put aside an extra 10% of the income from her new teaching gig for investing
--We have discussed the possibility of becoming a one-car family, possibly going the Prius/hybrid/electric route. 
--She says she is on board and gets what I'm doing, she also acknowledges that I am leading us in a good direction, and this empowers me to feel good about it

These small steps really add up! I'm seeing giant strides of progress here! Way to go!!!

(I guess I forgot to write something here)

Thank you!
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 10:28:32 AM by DieHard_772 »



PaiMeiStash

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #58 on: April 06, 2017, 01:29:45 AM »
Good lookin' out on putting together this extensive list, lifejoy! I'll be sure to implement many of the tips along my journey and hopefully my SO will eventually see the light. It will indeed take much persistence, patience, and manipulation love. But like anything worth having, after all the hard work has been put it, makes it that much sweeter.

Kooljohn

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2017, 01:59:00 PM »
There's some excellent tips here!

Really appreciate the effort of putting this together.

I'm at the very start of my FIRE journey so this is a big help.

rdaneel0

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #60 on: June 26, 2017, 03:32:46 PM »
Great advice! I also had a pretty spendy spouse (not on luxury items, just things like coffee out...you know, because that doesn't make a difference). Now he's 100% on board.

I think the biggest thing to take away from your list is to lead by example without worrying about maintaining everything absolutely 50/50. Nagging does not work, and you can't force someone to see things your way. I just started doing my thing and he saw our accounts grow, our stress levels decrease, and our waistlines shrink. That was enough for him, and far more powerful than any amount of verbal convincing. Now I can honestly say we're 50/50.
I write about my $300 a month food and household budget in a HCOL area. I also post photos of my groceries and meals, and lots of meal plans, plus musings and $ tracking: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/journey-to-the-center-of-the-'stache/

lifejoy

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #61 on: June 26, 2017, 03:36:08 PM »
Great advice! I also had a pretty spendy spouse (not on luxury items, just things like coffee out...you know, because that doesn't make a difference). Now he's 100% on board.

I think the biggest thing to take away from your list is to lead by example without worrying about maintaining everything absolutely 50/50. Nagging does not work, and you can't force someone to see things your way. I just started doing my thing and he saw our accounts grow, our stress levels decrease, and our waistlines shrink. That was enough for him, and far more powerful than any amount of verbal convincing. Now I can honestly say we're 50/50.

That's really impressive! Way to go! I need to try and apply this logic to other areas in my life: if I want to go to the gym with my DH, I better start going without him. If I want him to watch less tv, I better start watching less tv.

It's a good rule of thumb!

Le Barbu

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #62 on: August 05, 2017, 04:40:57 PM »
Ptf
"The real reason this blog exists, is simply to save the entire human race from destroying itself through overconsumption of its own habitat"

-MMM

ereamrod

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #63 on: August 07, 2017, 04:03:33 AM »
This is awesome!

I've been hardcore changing my life and finances to get to FIRE and my SO has definitely noticed. The lead by example I found was the key because it allows them to see all the benefits before they dive in.  In the last 3 months he's decided to RAGE down his debt, sell a TON of stuff, and has set a date to cut back his business " stop plowing snow by 30".

We adopted a totally cheesy tactic to encourage each other with everything but we call it " positive reinforcement high-fives" we say it, slap hands and listen to a proclamation of what we think we did well with. Ex: I spent $20 less on groceries because I went to the farmers market or O finished that project instead of watching Netflix.

We've found EVERY aspect of our relationship has improved because we both are actively supporting one another on small things which as everyone here knows ADDS UP OVERTIME and COMPOUNDS our happiness ( see what I did there?! ;) )

lifejoy

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #64 on: August 14, 2017, 02:41:50 PM »
This is awesome!

I've been hardcore changing my life and finances to get to FIRE and my SO has definitely noticed. The lead by example I found was the key because it allows them to see all the benefits before they dive in.  In the last 3 months he's decided to RAGE down his debt, sell a TON of stuff, and has set a date to cut back his business " stop plowing snow by 30".

We adopted a totally cheesy tactic to encourage each other with everything but we call it " positive reinforcement high-fives" we say it, slap hands and listen to a proclamation of what we think we did well with. Ex: I spent $20 less on groceries because I went to the farmers market or O finished that project instead of watching Netflix.

We've found EVERY aspect of our relationship has improved because we both are actively supporting one another on small things which as everyone here knows ADDS UP OVERTIME and COMPOUNDS our happiness ( see what I did there?! ;) )

That is so inspiring :)

"Lead by example" seems to work for everything from finances to health to decluttering. I love it!

FrugalAussie

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #65 on: September 17, 2017, 05:17:36 PM »
Thank you. This is an awesome post!  Good luck to everyone undertaking this challenge.  I once had a very spendy partner, the relationship broke down as it was just too stressful, living pay to pay with two small children.

Thankfully my current SO and I have similar frugal values and financial goals however my children, not so much.  Some of your suggestions do apply to them.  Leading by example, especially now we are FIRE'd and loving it, has been very powerful with my daughter.
 
FIRE'd in 2017, aged 51. Not bored yet!

Missy B

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #66 on: December 13, 2017, 12:09:15 AM »
So, my BF transformed himself from Spendy McSpender to Mr. FrugalPants about a year and a half ago. Until that point, he aggressively invalidated all suggestions about not eating out so much and links to MMM posts, blew off all comments about retirement with 'well, I'll work till I can't, then I'll just eat cat food till I die'.
He came pretty close to being served up a tin of dog food. (Cat food is surprising expensive.)
The magic turning point was him deciding he 'didn't want to work anymore.'
Well and good. He paid off his line of credit and now saves $2000 a month.

Now he is deciding to do with his surplus.
And here's the problem: he is unsophisticated about financial stuff, and thinks he knows more than he does, and incidentally, more than me. He thinks the cleverest thing to  do is pay off the tiny remaining balance on his low-interest rate mortgage.

I did a long comparative calculation of paying off his mortgage (5 years at 3-ish percent) entirely in two years versus sticking with the 5 years and investing the extra money in an RRSP and investing the tax refund. The investment was head and shoulders better.

But he wants the emotional payoff of the 'no mortgage' scenario. His money, I just want him to make the choice with eyes open so he knows what that 'mortgage free' scenario is actually costing him. Which is two extra years of work and extreme saving.

The amazing part was, he does not believe me. And I am flabbergasted by his ignorance and stupidity. He does not understand basic RRSP rules. He does not know that you carry forward unused contribution room, or anything else, really. He thinks I made up this impossible, RRSP rule-violating scenario, because he is such an idiot he did not even look up the information to check if his thinking was actually correct.

I politely explained to him about RRSP's and included links. Perhaps if someone else explains it, he will believe them. But then he doesn't like to read things he doesn't agree with... so he might just ignore it.

So. Could be worse. At least he's saving.

GnomeErcy

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #67 on: December 15, 2017, 01:42:10 PM »
So, my BF transformed himself from Spendy McSpender to Mr. FrugalPants about a year and a half ago. Until that point, he aggressively invalidated all suggestions about not eating out so much and links to MMM posts, blew off all comments about retirement with 'well, I'll work till I can't, then I'll just eat cat food till I die'.
He came pretty close to being served up a tin of dog food. (Cat food is surprising expensive.)
The magic turning point was him deciding he 'didn't want to work anymore.'
Well and good. He paid off his line of credit and now saves $2000 a month.

Now he is deciding to do with his surplus.
And here's the problem: he is unsophisticated about financial stuff, and thinks he knows more than he does, and incidentally, more than me. He thinks the cleverest thing to  do is pay off the tiny remaining balance on his low-interest rate mortgage.

I did a long comparative calculation of paying off his mortgage (5 years at 3-ish percent) entirely in two years versus sticking with the 5 years and investing the extra money in an RRSP and investing the tax refund. The investment was head and shoulders better.

But he wants the emotional payoff of the 'no mortgage' scenario. His money, I just want him to make the choice with eyes open so he knows what that 'mortgage free' scenario is actually costing him. Which is two extra years of work and extreme saving.

The amazing part was, he does not believe me. And I am flabbergasted by his ignorance and stupidity. He does not understand basic RRSP rules. He does not know that you carry forward unused contribution room, or anything else, really. He thinks I made up this impossible, RRSP rule-violating scenario, because he is such an idiot he did not even look up the information to check if his thinking was actually correct.

I politely explained to him about RRSP's and included links. Perhaps if someone else explains it, he will believe them. But then he doesn't like to read things he doesn't agree with... so he might just ignore it.

So. Could be worse. At least he's saving.

Is he saving in a taxable account? Trying to think of a compromise here you may be able to propose: invest in a taxable account while paying the minimum on the mortgage. Once the taxable balance > mortgage balance, decide if you want to kill the mortgage. If yes, awesome! Do it in one fell swoop. If he's seen the math work in favor of investing, then that's great and he can keep on doing that.

If he's not saving enough to invest in taxable accounts it might not be the best strategy though.

lifejoy

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #68 on: December 26, 2017, 07:49:32 PM »
I’m going to say it would be a mistake to ignore the emotional side of financial decisions. It might it be logical but if someone feels emotional about it, you can’t appeal to them using logic IMO.

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #69 on: December 26, 2017, 08:54:14 PM »

The amazing part was, he does not believe me. And I am flabbergasted by his ignorance and stupidity. He does not understand basic RRSP rules. He does not know that you carry forward unused contribution room, or anything else, really. He thinks I made up this impossible, RRSP rule-violating scenario, because he is such an idiot he did not even look up the information to check if his thinking was actually correct.

I politely explained to him about RRSP's and included links. Perhaps if someone else explains it, he will believe them. But then he doesn't like to read things he doesn't agree with... so he might just ignore it.

So. Could be worse. At least he's saving.

To show him the unused contribution room, sign him up for a CRA my account online.  When you login, you can go and see the unused RRSP and TFSA room available.  Hopefully that will help.

lexde

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #70 on: December 27, 2017, 07:09:42 PM »
And here's the problem: he is unsophisticated about financial stuff, and thinks he knows more than he does, and incidentally, more than me. He thinks the cleverest thing to do is pay off the tiny remaining balance on his low-interest rate mortgage.

Congrats on the SO conversion! Surely being frugal is a big step forward even if he doesn’t know what to do with the money.

My SO told me a few days ago, “You’re bad at investing” when we were talking about funds. I’m a fan of buying and holding index funds and he basically places Wall Street bets and tries to time the market. So, I know how frustrating it can be to have someone dismiss your input for no reason. Not only rude, but hurtful, too. Especially seeing as how my net worth is up over $32k this year and his is...not. (Although to be fair he did manage an 18% return this past year, which is awesome, but he’s barely contributing so what’s the point?!)

K-ice

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Re: How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps
« Reply #71 on: December 27, 2017, 08:24:18 PM »
.....

Now he is deciding to do with his surplus.
And here's the problem: he is unsophisticated about financial stuff, and thinks he knows more than he does, and incidentally, more than me. He thinks the cleverest thing to  do is pay off the tiny remaining balance on his low-interest rate mortgage.

....

Missy, we are in very similar & frustrating situations.

First, as you stated at the end it could be worse & at least our SOs are saving.

I need serious help with getting my SO to invest.

Part of my plan is the lead by example so I have invested in VAB & VXC. VXC has done well but VAB is flat over 2years.

We are married so it is kind “our” money & “our” mortgage but we still do a bit independently.

However, they have decided the best thing is to pay the mortgage and I match every lump sum payment.

Because of this I haven’t had much to put towards my couch potato portfolio. VAB, VXC.

They are also vehemently opposed to RRSP. They think that their tax rate will be just as high later so what’s the point. But I’m pretty sure delaying the tax payment, even at the same rate, has benifits. I need to do a better spread sheet to explain this.

Anyway, I’m kind of babbling but: lead by example, do your own investing, be grateful they are saving, & let me know if you find something else that works better.