How many of you have relationship issues?

[Kris]

Didn't you already say a couple pages ago that you knew you needed to break up with her, but you don't like breaking up with someone so you are deciding it's better to continue to string along her and her kids?  I thought we already got there, but maybe not. 

It's hard to tell from the details of this latest in the strong of things she does that you don't like, but I think that yes, I might be annoyed and frustrated.  You'd discussed doing something together and while you hadn't settled on firm plans, it was more than "maybe we should hang out".  And then she went and booked something with no input from you.  Yeah, I'd be annoyed by that. 

But, so what?  You already know she does many, many things that annoy you.  You already know her kids will always come first, and not by just a little but.  You already know she's not a direct or effective communicator with you.

What does this latest event change?  Nada.  It's more of the same.  You don't like what being in a relationship with this woman entails.  But because you think it feels bad to dump someone, you continue to cruelly string her and her children along.  I would feel awful if I did that to someone.  Either you are okay with it, or you have the decency to end things.  One really awkward phone call--heck, in this case if it gets the job done I'd be on board with a break-up text since that's better than just continuing and leading everyone on--and then it's done.  Go no-contact if you need to afterwards.  Just do it.

Or don't, but know that means that these situations will continue, and even get worse.  And you will continue to be someone who stay ins in a relationship you know doesn't work, because break ups feel uncomfortable.  Those are you choices.  Pick one.  And if you choose the later, stop moaning about her doing the things she always does and that you know she always does, because you are actively *CHOOSING* to continue to sign up for them.

Agreed. He needs to break up with with her rather than drag his feet (and her life) in some long term angst ridden relationship where neither she or he will accept the others ways. You are not compatable. End it. Period. But you won't just like you wouldn't end your 10 year long relationship with a woman who desperately wanted a child and you were dragging your feet on that until she was near or at her reproductive years and had to go thru IVF if she wanted a child. All because you are afraid of breaking up and would rather just drag it out as long as possible. Sorry but you need to end it. For her as much as for you.

I have talked to her about our incompatibilities and she doesn't agree.

Right. Because she is traumatized and hanging onto you for dear life, even though you are not good for her. Of course she doesn't agree because she is not healthy enough to be making mature decisions about who to be in a relationship with.

Which is why you need to be the healthy adult and break it off.

Except you are also displaying non-healthy behavior. Which is why this keeps dragging on.

Break it off.

I don't think it's fair to put this all on me.  She is grown adult woman who also chooses to stay in the relationship.  It takes two to tango, as they say.

LMAO no one is "putting all of this on you." We are saying it is unhealthy and only going to get worse. For both of you.

It takes two to tango. But only one to stop tangoing. That's the point.

Why do you say it is only going to get worse?  It many ways, it has recently gotten better.

It has gotten temporarily better for you, because she is so traumatized from her past that she is falling all over herself to cave to your wishes because she is afraid you will leave her. In her heart of hearts, it is not getting better for her. But she will not admit that.

This is not sustainable.

Let me try one more time, using your analogy.

It takes two to tango. When the two of you, as individuals, get together to tango, it is not a good tango. She will keep tangoing with you no matter what, even if her feet start to bleed, because she has been traumatized to the point that she is convinced that she has to keep tangoing with you no matter what because she needs a tango partner, and she is afraid that if you leave -- no matter how bad of a tango partner you are for her -- she will never get another tango partner.

One of you needs to stop tangoing, for both of your sakes. It will not be her. So it needs to be you.

This is the only way either of you has a chance of ever getting a tango partner who is good *for you*.

She has no problem getting men....she is quite attractive and has been in many relationships.  I think this analogy is a bit over the top.

It's not about reality. It's about her perception of reality. And she wouldn't be twisting herself into a pretzel to get you to stick around if she was confident she could find someone else if you weren't in the picture.

[Metalcat]

She has no problem getting men....she is quite attractive and has been in many relationships.  I think this analogy is a bit over the top.

No one said she can't "get men," whatever the fuck that means, we are suggesting that she is afraid she will never get a man who is as good/better than you are to her.

Which is tragic since she's with someone who judges her and gets frustrated with her constantly, largely for trauma behaviours that she needs compassionate support to overcome, not impatient judgement.

[Villanelle]

Didn't you already say a couple pages ago that you knew you needed to break up with her, but you don't like breaking up with someone so you are deciding it's better to continue to string along her and her kids?  I thought we already got there, but maybe not. 

It's hard to tell from the details of this latest in the strong of things she does that you don't like, but I think that yes, I might be annoyed and frustrated.  You'd discussed doing something together and while you hadn't settled on firm plans, it was more than "maybe we should hang out".  And then she went and booked something with no input from you.  Yeah, I'd be annoyed by that. 

But, so what?  You already know she does many, many things that annoy you.  You already know her kids will always come first, and not by just a little but.  You already know she's not a direct or effective communicator with you.

What does this latest event change?  Nada.  It's more of the same.  You don't like what being in a relationship with this woman entails.  But because you think it feels bad to dump someone, you continue to cruelly string her and her children along.  I would feel awful if I did that to someone.  Either you are okay with it, or you have the decency to end things.  One really awkward phone call--heck, in this case if it gets the job done I'd be on board with a break-up text since that's better than just continuing and leading everyone on--and then it's done.  Go no-contact if you need to afterwards.  Just do it.

Or don't, but know that means that these situations will continue, and even get worse.  And you will continue to be someone who stay ins in a relationship you know doesn't work, because break ups feel uncomfortable.  Those are you choices.  Pick one.  And if you choose the later, stop moaning about her doing the things she always does and that you know she always does, because you are actively *CHOOSING* to continue to sign up for them.

Agreed. He needs to break up with with her rather than drag his feet (and her life) in some long term angst ridden relationship where neither she or he will accept the others ways. You are not compatable. End it. Period. But you won't just like you wouldn't end your 10 year long relationship with a woman who desperately wanted a child and you were dragging your feet on that until she was near or at her reproductive years and had to go thru IVF if she wanted a child. All because you are afraid of breaking up and would rather just drag it out as long as possible. Sorry but you need to end it. For her as much as for you.

I have talked to her about our incompatibilities and she doesn't agree.

Right. Because she is traumatized and hanging onto you for dear life, even though you are not good for her. Of course she doesn't agree because she is not healthy enough to be making mature decisions about who to be in a relationship with.

Which is why you need to be the healthy adult and break it off.

Except you are also displaying non-healthy behavior. Which is why this keeps dragging on.

Break it off.

I don't think it's fair to put this all on me.  She is grown adult woman who also chooses to stay in the relationship.  It takes two to tango, as they say.

LMAO no one is "putting all of this on you." We are saying it is unhealthy and only going to get worse. For both of you.

It takes two to tango. But only one to stop tangoing. That's the point.

Why do you say it is only going to get worse?  It many ways, it has recently gotten better.

It has gotten temporarily better for you, because she is so traumatized from her past that she is falling all over herself to cave to your wishes because she is afraid you will leave her. In her heart of hearts, it is not getting better for her. But she will not admit that.

This is not sustainable.

Let me try one more time, using your analogy.

It takes two to tango. When the two of you, as individuals, get together to tango, it is not a good tango. She will keep tangoing with you no matter what, even if her feet start to bleed, because she has been traumatized to the point that she is convinced that she has to keep tangoing with you no matter what because she needs a tango partner, and she is afraid that if you leave -- no matter how bad of a tango partner you are for her -- she will never get another tango partner.

One of you needs to stop tangoing, for both of your sakes. It will not be her. So it needs to be you.

This is the only way either of you has a chance of ever getting a tango partner who is good *for you*.

She has no problem getting men....she is quite attractive and has been in many relationships.  I think this analogy is a bit over the top.

You dimiss the analogy, but completely ignore the messaging.  It's pretty clear you are hell bent on not seeing what it seems every poster here (and doesn't that give you any pause?) seems to see.  So then why you are still talking about this?  You've said you know you should break up with her but it feels hard so you won't.  So why do you come back with another "she did this and I'm upset" post, when you know that's what you will keep getting from her, you know it doesn't work for you, and it's all been said before?  Genuine question.  What did you hope to get from this latest entry in "reasons my relationship makes me unhappy"?  People to validate that she should have handled it differently?  What does that get you?

What do you want?  What do you hope to accomplish or learn by talking about it here?  Shampoo, rinse, repeat.   

[G-String]

Didn't you already say a couple pages ago that you knew you needed to break up with her, but you don't like breaking up with someone so you are deciding it's better to continue to string along her and her kids?  I thought we already got there, but maybe not. 

It's hard to tell from the details of this latest in the strong of things she does that you don't like, but I think that yes, I might be annoyed and frustrated.  You'd discussed doing something together and while you hadn't settled on firm plans, it was more than "maybe we should hang out".  And then she went and booked something with no input from you.  Yeah, I'd be annoyed by that. 

But, so what?  You already know she does many, many things that annoy you.  You already know her kids will always come first, and not by just a little but.  You already know she's not a direct or effective communicator with you.

What does this latest event change?  Nada.  It's more of the same.  You don't like what being in a relationship with this woman entails.  But because you think it feels bad to dump someone, you continue to cruelly string her and her children along.  I would feel awful if I did that to someone.  Either you are okay with it, or you have the decency to end things.  One really awkward phone call--heck, in this case if it gets the job done I'd be on board with a break-up text since that's better than just continuing and leading everyone on--and then it's done.  Go no-contact if you need to afterwards.  Just do it.

Or don't, but know that means that these situations will continue, and even get worse.  And you will continue to be someone who stay ins in a relationship you know doesn't work, because break ups feel uncomfortable.  Those are you choices.  Pick one.  And if you choose the later, stop moaning about her doing the things she always does and that you know she always does, because you are actively *CHOOSING* to continue to sign up for them.

Agreed. He needs to break up with with her rather than drag his feet (and her life) in some long term angst ridden relationship where neither she or he will accept the others ways. You are not compatable. End it. Period. But you won't just like you wouldn't end your 10 year long relationship with a woman who desperately wanted a child and you were dragging your feet on that until she was near or at her reproductive years and had to go thru IVF if she wanted a child. All because you are afraid of breaking up and would rather just drag it out as long as possible. Sorry but you need to end it. For her as much as for you.

I have talked to her about our incompatibilities and she doesn't agree.

Right. Because she is traumatized and hanging onto you for dear life, even though you are not good for her. Of course she doesn't agree because she is not healthy enough to be making mature decisions about who to be in a relationship with.

Which is why you need to be the healthy adult and break it off.

Except you are also displaying non-healthy behavior. Which is why this keeps dragging on.

Break it off.

I don't think it's fair to put this all on me.  She is grown adult woman who also chooses to stay in the relationship.  It takes two to tango, as they say.

LMAO no one is "putting all of this on you." We are saying it is unhealthy and only going to get worse. For both of you.

It takes two to tango. But only one to stop tangoing. That's the point.

Why do you say it is only going to get worse?  It many ways, it has recently gotten better.

It has gotten temporarily better for you, because she is so traumatized from her past that she is falling all over herself to cave to your wishes because she is afraid you will leave her. In her heart of hearts, it is not getting better for her. But she will not admit that.

This is not sustainable.

Let me try one more time, using your analogy.

It takes two to tango. When the two of you, as individuals, get together to tango, it is not a good tango. She will keep tangoing with you no matter what, even if her feet start to bleed, because she has been traumatized to the point that she is convinced that she has to keep tangoing with you no matter what because she needs a tango partner, and she is afraid that if you leave -- no matter how bad of a tango partner you are for her -- she will never get another tango partner.

One of you needs to stop tangoing, for both of your sakes. It will not be her. So it needs to be you.

This is the only way either of you has a chance of ever getting a tango partner who is good *for you*.

She has no problem getting men....she is quite attractive and has been in many relationships.  I think this analogy is a bit over the top.

You dimiss the analogy, but completely ignore the messaging.  It's pretty clear you are hell bent on not seeing what it seems every poster here (and doesn't that give you any pause?) seems to see.  So then why you are still talking about this?  You've said you know you should break up with her but it feels hard so you won't.  So why do you come back with another "she did this and I'm upset" post, when you know that's what you will keep getting from her, you know it doesn't work for you, and it's all been said before?  Genuine question.  What did you hope to get from this latest entry in "reasons my relationship makes me unhappy"?  People to validate that she should have handled it differently?  What does that get you?

What do you want?  What do you hope to accomplish or learn by talking about it here?  Shampoo, rinse, repeat.   

To be honest, I want someone to help me understand her perspective, so that I can understand her better so these issues don't keep frustrating me.  I want to be wrong and be told that my frustration is wrong.  I feel that if I can understand her behavior, it will help me to better accept it, and therefore I will be less frustrated. 

My immediate reaction to her behavior is to feel I am being direspected.  But if I can understan that it is not disrespect, it will help me better accept her and her behaviours. 

[Kris]

Didn't you already say a couple pages ago that you knew you needed to break up with her, but you don't like breaking up with someone so you are deciding it's better to continue to string along her and her kids?  I thought we already got there, but maybe not. 

It's hard to tell from the details of this latest in the strong of things she does that you don't like, but I think that yes, I might be annoyed and frustrated.  You'd discussed doing something together and while you hadn't settled on firm plans, it was more than "maybe we should hang out".  And then she went and booked something with no input from you.  Yeah, I'd be annoyed by that. 

But, so what?  You already know she does many, many things that annoy you.  You already know her kids will always come first, and not by just a little but.  You already know she's not a direct or effective communicator with you.

What does this latest event change?  Nada.  It's more of the same.  You don't like what being in a relationship with this woman entails.  But because you think it feels bad to dump someone, you continue to cruelly string her and her children along.  I would feel awful if I did that to someone.  Either you are okay with it, or you have the decency to end things.  One really awkward phone call--heck, in this case if it gets the job done I'd be on board with a break-up text since that's better than just continuing and leading everyone on--and then it's done.  Go no-contact if you need to afterwards.  Just do it.

Or don't, but know that means that these situations will continue, and even get worse.  And you will continue to be someone who stay ins in a relationship you know doesn't work, because break ups feel uncomfortable.  Those are you choices.  Pick one.  And if you choose the later, stop moaning about her doing the things she always does and that you know she always does, because you are actively *CHOOSING* to continue to sign up for them.

Agreed. He needs to break up with with her rather than drag his feet (and her life) in some long term angst ridden relationship where neither she or he will accept the others ways. You are not compatable. End it. Period. But you won't just like you wouldn't end your 10 year long relationship with a woman who desperately wanted a child and you were dragging your feet on that until she was near or at her reproductive years and had to go thru IVF if she wanted a child. All because you are afraid of breaking up and would rather just drag it out as long as possible. Sorry but you need to end it. For her as much as for you.

I have talked to her about our incompatibilities and she doesn't agree.

Right. Because she is traumatized and hanging onto you for dear life, even though you are not good for her. Of course she doesn't agree because she is not healthy enough to be making mature decisions about who to be in a relationship with.

Which is why you need to be the healthy adult and break it off.

Except you are also displaying non-healthy behavior. Which is why this keeps dragging on.

Break it off.

I don't think it's fair to put this all on me.  She is grown adult woman who also chooses to stay in the relationship.  It takes two to tango, as they say.

LMAO no one is "putting all of this on you." We are saying it is unhealthy and only going to get worse. For both of you.

It takes two to tango. But only one to stop tangoing. That's the point.

Why do you say it is only going to get worse?  It many ways, it has recently gotten better.

It has gotten temporarily better for you, because she is so traumatized from her past that she is falling all over herself to cave to your wishes because she is afraid you will leave her. In her heart of hearts, it is not getting better for her. But she will not admit that.

This is not sustainable.

Let me try one more time, using your analogy.

It takes two to tango. When the two of you, as individuals, get together to tango, it is not a good tango. She will keep tangoing with you no matter what, even if her feet start to bleed, because she has been traumatized to the point that she is convinced that she has to keep tangoing with you no matter what because she needs a tango partner, and she is afraid that if you leave -- no matter how bad of a tango partner you are for her -- she will never get another tango partner.

One of you needs to stop tangoing, for both of your sakes. It will not be her. So it needs to be you.

This is the only way either of you has a chance of ever getting a tango partner who is good *for you*.

She has no problem getting men....she is quite attractive and has been in many relationships.  I think this analogy is a bit over the top.

You dimiss the analogy, but completely ignore the messaging.  It's pretty clear you are hell bent on not seeing what it seems every poster here (and doesn't that give you any pause?) seems to see.  So then why you are still talking about this?  You've said you know you should break up with her but it feels hard so you won't.  So why do you come back with another "she did this and I'm upset" post, when you know that's what you will keep getting from her, you know it doesn't work for you, and it's all been said before?  Genuine question.  What did you hope to get from this latest entry in "reasons my relationship makes me unhappy"?  People to validate that she should have handled it differently?  What does that get you?

What do you want?  What do you hope to accomplish or learn by talking about it here?  Shampoo, rinse, repeat.   

To be honest, I want someone to help me understand her perspective, so that I can understand her better so these issues don't keep frustrating me.  I want to be wrong and be told that my frustration is wrong.  I feel that if I can understand her behavior, it will help me to better accept it, and therefore I will be less frustrated. 

My immediate reaction to her behavior is to feel I am being direspected.  But if I can understan that it is not disrespect, it will help me better accept her and her behaviours.

We have told you you over and over and over and over again that her actions are rooted in 1) trauma; and 2) having five kids and a life that does not give her the flexibility to put you first. And that hasn't conveyed to you that it is not disrespect. So how are we supposed to help you understand that, when we have already given you all the tools to do so, and you are still not doing it?

Some people use the term "respect" to mean "control." I get the feeling that's sort of where you are here. You don't feel in control, so you feel "disrespected."

Let me ask you something. You are, presumably, attractive, and you have been in relationships before. You have no trouble "getting" women. Why don't you go find another one who gives you more time, control, and respect?

[the_hobbitish]

Whether or not she has a great reason for her actions doesn't really matter. It makes you unhappy and frustrated. If she planned something without talking to you again would you be ok with it? I am guessing no based on how things have gone in the past. A relationship that makes you unhappy and frustrated all the time is not a good one.

Stop focusing on whose fault it is. You've written that you know this relationship is not working. Why won't you end it?

[Villanelle]

Didn't you already say a couple pages ago that you knew you needed to break up with her, but you don't like breaking up with someone so you are deciding it's better to continue to string along her and her kids?  I thought we already got there, but maybe not. 

It's hard to tell from the details of this latest in the strong of things she does that you don't like, but I think that yes, I might be annoyed and frustrated.  You'd discussed doing something together and while you hadn't settled on firm plans, it was more than "maybe we should hang out".  And then she went and booked something with no input from you.  Yeah, I'd be annoyed by that. 

But, so what?  You already know she does many, many things that annoy you.  You already know her kids will always come first, and not by just a little but.  You already know she's not a direct or effective communicator with you.

What does this latest event change?  Nada.  It's more of the same.  You don't like what being in a relationship with this woman entails.  But because you think it feels bad to dump someone, you continue to cruelly string her and her children along.  I would feel awful if I did that to someone.  Either you are okay with it, or you have the decency to end things.  One really awkward phone call--heck, in this case if it gets the job done I'd be on board with a break-up text since that's better than just continuing and leading everyone on--and then it's done.  Go no-contact if you need to afterwards.  Just do it.

Or don't, but know that means that these situations will continue, and even get worse.  And you will continue to be someone who stay ins in a relationship you know doesn't work, because break ups feel uncomfortable.  Those are you choices.  Pick one.  And if you choose the later, stop moaning about her doing the things she always does and that you know she always does, because you are actively *CHOOSING* to continue to sign up for them.

Agreed. He needs to break up with with her rather than drag his feet (and her life) in some long term angst ridden relationship where neither she or he will accept the others ways. You are not compatable. End it. Period. But you won't just like you wouldn't end your 10 year long relationship with a woman who desperately wanted a child and you were dragging your feet on that until she was near or at her reproductive years and had to go thru IVF if she wanted a child. All because you are afraid of breaking up and would rather just drag it out as long as possible. Sorry but you need to end it. For her as much as for you.

I have talked to her about our incompatibilities and she doesn't agree.

Right. Because she is traumatized and hanging onto you for dear life, even though you are not good for her. Of course she doesn't agree because she is not healthy enough to be making mature decisions about who to be in a relationship with.

Which is why you need to be the healthy adult and break it off.

Except you are also displaying non-healthy behavior. Which is why this keeps dragging on.

Break it off.

I don't think it's fair to put this all on me.  She is grown adult woman who also chooses to stay in the relationship.  It takes two to tango, as they say.

LMAO no one is "putting all of this on you." We are saying it is unhealthy and only going to get worse. For both of you.

It takes two to tango. But only one to stop tangoing. That's the point.

Why do you say it is only going to get worse?  It many ways, it has recently gotten better.

It has gotten temporarily better for you, because she is so traumatized from her past that she is falling all over herself to cave to your wishes because she is afraid you will leave her. In her heart of hearts, it is not getting better for her. But she will not admit that.

This is not sustainable.

Let me try one more time, using your analogy.

It takes two to tango. When the two of you, as individuals, get together to tango, it is not a good tango. She will keep tangoing with you no matter what, even if her feet start to bleed, because she has been traumatized to the point that she is convinced that she has to keep tangoing with you no matter what because she needs a tango partner, and she is afraid that if you leave -- no matter how bad of a tango partner you are for her -- she will never get another tango partner.

One of you needs to stop tangoing, for both of your sakes. It will not be her. So it needs to be you.

This is the only way either of you has a chance of ever getting a tango partner who is good *for you*.

She has no problem getting men....she is quite attractive and has been in many relationships.  I think this analogy is a bit over the top.

You dimiss the analogy, but completely ignore the messaging.  It's pretty clear you are hell bent on not seeing what it seems every poster here (and doesn't that give you any pause?) seems to see.  So then why you are still talking about this?  You've said you know you should break up with her but it feels hard so you won't.  So why do you come back with another "she did this and I'm upset" post, when you know that's what you will keep getting from her, you know it doesn't work for you, and it's all been said before?  Genuine question.  What did you hope to get from this latest entry in "reasons my relationship makes me unhappy"?  People to validate that she should have handled it differently?  What does that get you?

What do you want?  What do you hope to accomplish or learn by talking about it here?  Shampoo, rinse, repeat.   

To be honest, I want someone to help me understand her perspective, so that I can understand her better so these issues don't keep frustrating me.  I want to be wrong and be told that my frustration is wrong.  I feel that if I can understand her behavior, it will help me to better accept it, and therefore I will be less frustrated. 

My immediate reaction to her behavior is to feel I am being direspected.  But if I can understan that it is not disrespect, it will help me better accept her and her behaviours.

Her perspective is that this is the way she does life.  That's it.  You are not wrong.  Your frustration is not wrong.  I would be annoyed by several of the things you've posted (including the latest).  And others wouldn't make me annoyed so much as they've had made it clear that there was a fundamental incompatibility between the way she makes choices, priortizes partners, communicates, and deals with conflict.  It's not about wrong, it's about incompatibility.  Someone can be an amazing person, making great, respectful, fundamentally sound decisions (or not), and still not be the right person/relationship for you.  That's where you are.  And you know it.  You've admitted it.  So what is it you are still trying to see? 

If you are coming here wanting responses that help you feel better about the relationship, I don't think you are going t find that.  Because it is an unhealthy, imbalanced, fundamentally flawed relationship.  It's not about whether she's wrong, or not, for planning a trip.  It's about her being fundamentally wrong for you, and you wrong for her and for her kids.  That's it. 

[Paper Chaser]

To be honest, I want someone to help me understand her perspective, so that I can understand her better so these issues don't keep frustrating me.  I want to be wrong and be told that my frustration is wrong.  I feel that if I can understand her behavior, it will help me to better accept it, and therefore I will be less frustrated.

What will you get from strangers speculating on the internet that you can't get from open, honest communication with her? If she's not able to have open, honest dialogue with you is she really the right person to invest more time and energy into?

My immediate reaction to her behavior is to feel I am being direspected.  But if I can understan that it is not disrespect, it will help me better accept her and her behaviours.

All of this sounds like somebody who is trying to cope with a bad situation. Your immediate reaction to her behavior is negative. You're viewing yourself as a victim here. That's very likely due in large part to your own issues and relationship history, and may be a logical response, but that doesn't mean it's right, or that it's healthy.

I see a lot of things in your posts about how you value her looks/sex. The rest of your posts seem to center about how you feel mistreated, or how you feel inconvenienced, or how you feel disrespected, or how you feel mislead by her. I haven't seen you post about what you like about who this woman is, or how she makes you feel, or what potential she might have as a partner moving forward. Feelings are valid, but they can also be influenced by our overall outlook, and shaped by previous experiences. Nobody reading your posts thinks that you actually love this woman for who she is. That's what your words are implying if not saying outright.

I'd really urge you to try to avoid thinking of yourself as a victim all the time. It's not healthy for you, and you won't have a healthy relationship with this woman or any other until you're able to break that mentality. Try to assume that this woman that you're building some sort of life with isn't out to get you in some way. Give her the benefit of the doubt. Ask questions about why she says/does/feels the way she does, and then listen to her response.

[Raenia]

To be honest, I want someone to help me understand her perspective, so that I can understand her better so these issues don't keep frustrating me.  I want to be wrong and be told that my frustration is wrong.  I feel that if I can understand her behavior, it will help me to better accept it, and therefore I will be less frustrated. 

My immediate reaction to her behavior is to feel I am being direspected.  But if I can understan that it is not disrespect, it will help me better accept her and her behaviours.

If you actually want to become the kind of person who can support her through her trauma, I recommend therapy. Find a good trauma therapist and talk to them about it, instead of a bunch of internet strangers. Bonus, you can start to work on whatever is behind your aggressive clinging to relationships. But don't expect it to be easy or fast.

Maybe also work on some stoic philosophy and meditation, to work on accepting things as they are.

[Metalcat]

To be honest, I want someone to help me understand her perspective, so that I can understand her better so these issues don't keep frustrating me.  I want to be wrong and be told that my frustration is wrong.  I feel that if I can understand her behavior, it will help me to better accept it, and therefore I will be less frustrated. 

My immediate reaction to her behavior is to feel I am being direspected.  But if I can understan that it is not disrespect, it will help me better accept her and her behaviours.

If you actually want to become the kind of person who can support her through her trauma, I recommend therapy. Find a good trauma therapist and talk to them about it, instead of a bunch of internet strangers. Bonus, you can start to work on whatever is behind your aggressive clinging to relationships. But don't expect it to be easy or fast.

Maybe also work on some stoic philosophy and meditation, to work on accepting things as they are.

I've already recommended that he do some reading on trauma and how to support people with trauma and then he basically asked me for the Cole's Notes.

[Raenia]

To be honest, I want someone to help me understand her perspective, so that I can understand her better so these issues don't keep frustrating me.  I want to be wrong and be told that my frustration is wrong.  I feel that if I can understand her behavior, it will help me to better accept it, and therefore I will be less frustrated. 

My immediate reaction to her behavior is to feel I am being direspected.  But if I can understan that it is not disrespect, it will help me better accept her and her behaviours.

If you actually want to become the kind of person who can support her through her trauma, I recommend therapy. Find a good trauma therapist and talk to them about it, instead of a bunch of internet strangers. Bonus, you can start to work on whatever is behind your aggressive clinging to relationships. But don't expect it to be easy or fast.

Maybe also work on some stoic philosophy and meditation, to work on accepting things as they are.

I've already recommended that he do some reading on trauma and how to support people with trauma and then he basically asked me for the Cole's Notes.

Hopefully the repetition will help drive home that there are no Cole's Notes, the only way is the long way.

[Omy]

This relationship (viewed from the perspective of a bunch of internet strangers) is not improving. You periodically claim that it is, and then a short time later pop up to ask us to support you in your latest grievance against her.

I'd be thrilled if DH made vacation plans for us without consulting me. He knows what I enjoy and it would free me from having to get involved in all the planning. You have chosen to view it as a negative (which is your prerogative), but I'm trying to show you that you could have looked at it as an opportunity instead of just another time where you were tricked or lied to).

If DH had children,  I'd be happy to see him be an involved parent who values his time with family and I hope I'd be understanding about his need to prioritize his young children over me.

If I was unable to be a supportive, understanding partner, I would leave before his children got too attached to me. Kids generally love my "fun aunt" vibe, and it would be cruel to lead them on if we had serious issues.

Children are able to sense problems in adult relationships. They also get attached easily and generally don't have great coping mechanisms when those relationships break down.

If you can't accept her as she is and you are unable to selflessly put yourself 7th on her list of priorities, you are not the right partner for her. And she is not the right partner for you.

Dragging this on indefinitely is selfish...and damaging to those kiddos.

[iris lily]

I think you are wrong being upset here.  If you don’t join her in Minneapolis, it does not mean that you won’t do romantic dinner and evening.
Your anniversary is in April.  Easter is the last weekend in March, so it is not even eclipsing the anniversary date. 
She planned a fun trip with her family.  She wants to go with or without you.  She invited you and planned to give the two of you privacy if you go.

Are thinking that this trip will be “instead” of anniversary dinner /evening?  Are you upset that she is making fun plans that don’t hinge on your involvement? What is the source of frustration?

You could decline joining and try to plan a dinner later.

ETA: it seems like that your girlfriend IS the source of your frustration because her life situation, choices, communication style, and priorities are incompatible with yours.

The trip falls right on our anniversary date as our anniversary is early April. 

My source of frustration is that she did not discuss this with me first.  I actually think this trip will be fun and I have no problem with it replacing our anniversary.  My issue is she just called me and dropped it on me, saying this is what I am doing with my kids; you can come or not.  There was no prior discussion or anything.  She said she was thinking about it for a couple months and never mentioned it to me prior to yesterday after she made her decision.

You are going to feel what you feel, I never understand people asking “how should I feel? “It’s more important to delve into WHY you feel a certain way if that feeling is causing you grief in your life.

I get a sense that you are hell-bent on celebrating your anniversary on the exact day. No room for compromise. It must be exactly one year from the day that you… met or dated or whatever. Is that right?

Could it be she is just not plugged into your idea that celebrating a specific day is key.

[G-String]

I think you are wrong being upset here.  If you don’t join her in Minneapolis, it does not mean that you won’t do romantic dinner and evening.
Your anniversary is in April.  Easter is the last weekend in March, so it is not even eclipsing the anniversary date. 
She planned a fun trip with her family.  She wants to go with or without you.  She invited you and planned to give the two of you privacy if you go.

Are thinking that this trip will be “instead” of anniversary dinner /evening?  Are you upset that she is making fun plans that don’t hinge on your involvement? What is the source of frustration?

You could decline joining and try to plan a dinner later.

ETA: it seems like that your girlfriend IS the source of your frustration because her life situation, choices, communication style, and priorities are incompatible with yours.

The trip falls right on our anniversary date as our anniversary is early April. 

My source of frustration is that she did not discuss this with me first.  I actually think this trip will be fun and I have no problem with it replacing our anniversary.  My issue is she just called me and dropped it on me, saying this is what I am doing with my kids; you can come or not.  There was no prior discussion or anything.  She said she was thinking about it for a couple months and never mentioned it to me prior to yesterday after she made her decision.

You are going to feel what you feel, I never understand people asking “how should I feel? “It’s more important to delve into WHY you feel a certain way if that feeling is causing you grief in your life.

I get a sense that you are hell-bent on celebrating your anniversary on the exact day. No room for compromise. It must be exactly one year from the day that you… met or dated or whatever. Is that right?

Could it be she is just not plugged into your idea that celebrating a specific day is key.

No that is not right at all.  As I have stated many times here: I have no issues with what she planned.  My issue is that she did not talk to me about it first, before making the decision. 

[the_hobbitish]

It sounds like you have different opinions of how much you should be involved in making decisions. As a single mother of 5 kids and not married to you I don't find it surprising that she would be used to making decisions independently (not to mention other factors from her past).

It's clear you don't agree with each other on how much you should be consulted or make decisions as a couple. Different couple do this differently. There is no right way. It's only a problem if there is a mismatch. This has been a pattern throughout your relationship. If you are not ok with her making decisions independently then this is probably not the right relationship for you.

[G-String]

It sounds like you have different opinions of how much you should be involved in making decisions. As a single mother of 5 kids and not married to you I don't find it surprising that she would be used to making decisions independently (not to mention other factors from her past).

It's clear you don't agree with each other on how much you should be consulted or make decisions as a couple. Different couple do this differently. There is no right way. It's only a problem if there is a mismatch. This has been a pattern throughout your relationship. If you are not ok with her making decisions independently then this is probably not the right relationship for you.

She is free to make decisions regarding her kids.  They are her kids, not mine.  But when the decision also involves/impacts me, which this one did, I would have appreciated being consulted before. 

[the_hobbitish]

Yes, and she doesn't feel the need to do so. Thus the mismatch. You will either need to be ok with this in the future or choose a relationship with someone how will consult with you on decisions. Or be unhappy, but why would you choose that option...

[Villanelle]

It sounds like you have different opinions of how much you should be involved in making decisions. As a single mother of 5 kids and not married to you I don't find it surprising that she would be used to making decisions independently (not to mention other factors from her past).

It's clear you don't agree with each other on how much you should be consulted or make decisions as a couple. Different couple do this differently. There is no right way. It's only a problem if there is a mismatch. This has been a pattern throughout your relationship. If you are not ok with her making decisions independently then this is probably not the right relationship for you.

She is free to make decisions regarding her kids.  They are her kids, not mine. But when the decision also involves/impacts me, which this one did, I would have appreciated being consulted before.

A) It's not wrong that you wanted to be involved in the decision.

B) It's not wrong that she didn't do that.

It's wrong that an A is trying to sustain a relationship with a B, and vice versa.

It's similar to the question of whether a newly engaged couple should combine finances.  There's no right or wrong approach.  But if a Separate-Everything marries a Everything-is-Joint, it's a mess.

And if there were a single issue, the answers would be, "talk to her.  Explain whyyou are frustrated and what you need her to do differently next time.  Listen to her about why she did it the way she did, and try to understand those reasons, and why they might come in to play in the future.  Find a compromise you can both live with, and then both of you work on applying that going forward."

But this is the same thing, and different things, again and again.  It's that newly engaged couple realizing the disparity about finances, and not being willing to find anything close to middle ground.  But also having a fundamental difference about whether to have kid or not, wear to live, and appropriate boundaries with opposite-sex friends (as random examples of other major differences in a relationship).  No one tells that couple, "well, talk more about the finances," because the real advice is, "this doesn't work".  Not because either of them is wrong--it's not like one feels it's okay to beat the shit out of the other and the other doesn't like that--but because they are different.

You are looking at it as right and wrong. You seem to think that if everyone tells you you are wrong and what she did was fine, then that makes it better. (???) No.  You feel how you feel about it.  You want these things to go a certain way.  You want to be able to communicate a certain way.  You want a certain lifestyle. 

None of those things are wrong.  And the  things she wants aren't wrong either.

The only "wrong" I see in all this is the cruelty and emotional damage you are causing by not ending a relationship you admit you should end.  Because you are... too uncomfortable to have a break-up conversation??  That's wrong.  And it's extra wrong because there are kids involved, and growing more hopeful and attached by the day.  And it's super double extra wrong because those kids have already been traumatized and let down by a father-figure.

And it's only going to get harder to end things the longer this drags on.  If you need motivation to end this, think about how today is the easiest it will every be again to break up with her.  Tomorrow is a little harder.  A week from now is a little harder.  The week after this trip, if you decided to go (or if you don't) is even more difficult than that.  If breaking up is hard, do it now before you make it even harder. 

[G-String]

It sounds like you have different opinions of how much you should be involved in making decisions. As a single mother of 5 kids and not married to you I don't find it surprising that she would be used to making decisions independently (not to mention other factors from her past).

It's clear you don't agree with each other on how much you should be consulted or make decisions as a couple. Different couple do this differently. There is no right way. It's only a problem if there is a mismatch. This has been a pattern throughout your relationship. If you are not ok with her making decisions independently then this is probably not the right relationship for you.

She is free to make decisions regarding her kids.  They are her kids, not mine. But when the decision also involves/impacts me, which this one did, I would have appreciated being consulted before.

A) It's not wrong that you wanted to be involved in the decision.

B) It's not wrong that she didn't do that.

It's wrong that an A is trying to sustain a relationship with a B, and vice versa.

It's similar to the question of whether a newly engaged couple should combine finances.  There's no right or wrong approach.  But if a Separate-Everything marries a Everything-is-Joint, it's a mess.

And if there were a single issue, the answers would be, "talk to her.  Explain whyyou are frustrated and what you need her to do differently next time.  Listen to her about why she did it the way she did, and try to understand those reasons, and why they might come in to play in the future.  Find a compromise you can both live with, and then both of you work on applying that going forward."

But this is the same thing, and different things, again and again.  It's that newly engaged couple realizing the disparity about finances, and not being willing to find anything close to middle ground.  But also having a fundamental difference about whether to have kid or not, wear to live, and appropriate boundaries with opposite-sex friends (as random examples of other major differences in a relationship).  No one tells that couple, "well, talk more about the finances," because the real advice is, "this doesn't work".  Not because either of them is wrong--it's not like one feels it's okay to beat the shit out of the other and the other doesn't like that--but because they are different.

You are looking at it as right and wrong. You seem to think that if everyone tells you you are wrong and what she did was fine, then that makes it better. (???) No.  You feel how you feel about it.  You want these things to go a certain way.  You want to be able to communicate a certain way.  You want a certain lifestyle. 

None of those things are wrong.  And the  things she wants aren't wrong either.

The only "wrong" I see in all this is the cruelty and emotional damage you are causing by not ending a relationship you admit you should end.  Because you are... too uncomfortable to have a break-up conversation??  That's wrong.  And it's extra wrong because there are kids involved, and growing more hopeful and attached by the day.  And it's super double extra wrong because those kids have already been traumatized and let down by a father-figure.

And it's only going to get harder to end things the longer this drags on.  If you need motivation to end this, think about how today is the easiest it will every be again to break up with her.  Tomorrow is a little harder.  A week from now is a little harder.  The week after this trip, if you decided to go (or if you don't) is even more difficult than that.  If breaking up is hard, do it now before you make it even harder.

This is where we can agree to disagree.  For your option B that I highlighted in bold above, I think she was wrong in not consulting me on this decision.  To me it is common courtesy to consult someone when a decision impacts them (especially when that someone is your long-term relationship partner), and it is disrespectful not to.  I have expressed my feelings on this with my GF and I hope she considerers this going forward. 

[Villanelle]

It sounds like you have different opinions of how much you should be involved in making decisions. As a single mother of 5 kids and not married to you I don't find it surprising that she would be used to making decisions independently (not to mention other factors from her past).

It's clear you don't agree with each other on how much you should be consulted or make decisions as a couple. Different couple do this differently. There is no right way. It's only a problem if there is a mismatch. This has been a pattern throughout your relationship. If you are not ok with her making decisions independently then this is probably not the right relationship for you.

She is free to make decisions regarding her kids.  They are her kids, not mine. But when the decision also involves/impacts me, which this one did, I would have appreciated being consulted before.

A) It's not wrong that you wanted to be involved in the decision.

B) It's not wrong that she didn't do that.

It's wrong that an A is trying to sustain a relationship with a B, and vice versa.

It's similar to the question of whether a newly engaged couple should combine finances.  There's no right or wrong approach.  But if a Separate-Everything marries a Everything-is-Joint, it's a mess.

And if there were a single issue, the answers would be, "talk to her.  Explain whyyou are frustrated and what you need her to do differently next time.  Listen to her about why she did it the way she did, and try to understand those reasons, and why they might come in to play in the future.  Find a compromise you can both live with, and then both of you work on applying that going forward."

But this is the same thing, and different things, again and again.  It's that newly engaged couple realizing the disparity about finances, and not being willing to find anything close to middle ground.  But also having a fundamental difference about whether to have kid or not, wear to live, and appropriate boundaries with opposite-sex friends (as random examples of other major differences in a relationship).  No one tells that couple, "well, talk more about the finances," because the real advice is, "this doesn't work".  Not because either of them is wrong--it's not like one feels it's okay to beat the shit out of the other and the other doesn't like that--but because they are different.

You are looking at it as right and wrong. You seem to think that if everyone tells you you are wrong and what she did was fine, then that makes it better. (???) No.  You feel how you feel about it.  You want these things to go a certain way.  You want to be able to communicate a certain way.  You want a certain lifestyle. 

None of those things are wrong.  And the  things she wants aren't wrong either.

The only "wrong" I see in all this is the cruelty and emotional damage you are causing by not ending a relationship you admit you should end.  Because you are... too uncomfortable to have a break-up conversation??  That's wrong.  And it's extra wrong because there are kids involved, and growing more hopeful and attached by the day.  And it's super double extra wrong because those kids have already been traumatized and let down by a father-figure.

And it's only going to get harder to end things the longer this drags on.  If you need motivation to end this, think about how today is the easiest it will every be again to break up with her.  Tomorrow is a little harder.  A week from now is a little harder.  The week after this trip, if you decided to go (or if you don't) is even more difficult than that.  If breaking up is hard, do it now before you make it even harder.

This is where we can agree to disagree.  For your option B that I highlighted in bold above, I think she was wrong in not consulting me on this decision.  To me it is common courtesy to consult someone when a decision impacts them (especially when that someone is your long-term relationship partner), and it is disrespectful not to.  I have expressed my feelings on this with my GF and I hope she considerers this going forward.

Earlier when I asked what you wanted, you said you were hoping people would tell you that her actions weren't disrespect.  I'm saying almost exactly that--that she wasn't wrong-- and now you are arguing the point.  So clearly, what you wanted *wasn't* for people to tell you she wasn't disrespectful  So I ask again, what did you hope to get when you came here with this latest installment in your story?  So, it it that you wanted to understand why what she did wasn't wrong, or not? 

Also, the bolded is exactly the point, and also not the point at all.  lol  You feel it was wrong not to consult you and that it was disrespectful.  She doesn't feel that way (unless you think the woman you are in a relationship with actively disrespects you).  You each see it differently, just as you seem to see nearly everything in the relationship differently.  *THAT* is the point.  You are an A, dating a B.  Fundamental incompatibility. 

[Captain FIRE]

A good while ago you were mad she bought herself a car without talking to you.
Now you are upset that she booked a vacation (that she invited you on) without you.
I think there are more examples but I don't remember the specifics of them.

You're not going to be able to change her from making these independent decisions (nor should you). Given that, you need to decide if you can gracefully accept this aspect of her or not. Your many posts suggests not, but you still refuse to break up with her.

As someone else noted, I've really only seen you talk positively about her looks and the great sex.  It must be mind blowing for you to keep holding on is all I can say, albeit less frequent than ~5x a week. What else do you like about her?

[Kris]

A good while ago you were mad she bought herself a car without talking to you.
Now you are upset that she booked a vacation (that she invited you on) without you.
I think there are more examples but I don't remember the specifics of them.

You're not going to be able to change her from making these independent decisions (nor should you). Given that, you need to decide if you can gracefully accept this aspect of her or not. Your many posts suggests not, but you still refuse to break up with her.

As someone else noted, I've really only seen you talk positively about her looks and the great sex.  It must be mind blowing for you to keep holding on is all I can say, albeit less frequent than ~5x a week. What else do you like about her?

Yep.

The car thing was completely unhinged, G-String.

Go back to what I said about how some people say "respect" when they mean "control."

This is not healthy.

[Metalcat]

In OP's defense, I have gotten quite a sense of what he likes about this woman.

The problem is that what he enjoyed most was when she was pushing herself to be more available to him and make him a priority than was realistic for her to sustain.

She claimed she could, and then as soon as he agreed to a serious commitment with her (whatever that means to either of them), she immediately began to pull back and make him less of a priority.

He has been angry at her ever since.

What he fell for was a version of this woman that doesn't exist. He's not willing to let go of that "potential" of what she "could be" if she just was willing to put in that effort again.

Which she can't because she's a traumatized single mother of 5 kids.

[G-String]

A good while ago you were mad she bought herself a car without talking to you.
Now you are upset that she booked a vacation (that she invited you on) without you.
I think there are more examples but I don't remember the specifics of them.

You're not going to be able to change her from making these independent decisions (nor should you). Given that, you need to decide if you can gracefully accept this aspect of her or not. Your many posts suggests not, but you still refuse to break up with her.

As someone else noted, I've really only seen you talk positively about her looks and the great sex.  It must be mind blowing for you to keep holding on is all I can say, albeit less frequent than ~5x a week. What else do you like about her?

Yep.

The car thing was completely unhinged, G-String.

Go back to what I said about how some people say "respect" when they mean "control."

This is not healthy.

You don't get it. Context is everything. She did not need my permission to buy the car.  But because she was actively discussing the car purchase with me over a number of weeks, almost on a daily basis.  Asking for my advice, thoughts etc.  Then out of nowhere decided to go buy it without telling me until after the fact was very odd. 

[G-String]

In OP's defense, I have gotten quite a sense of what he likes about this woman.

The problem is that what he enjoyed most was when she was pushing herself to be more available to him and make him a priority than was realistic for her to sustain.

She claimed she could, and then as soon as he agreed to a serious commitment with her (whatever that means to either of them), she immediately began to pull back and make him less of a priority.

He has been angry at her ever since.

What he fell for was a version of this woman that doesn't exist. He's not willing to let go of that "potential" of what she "could be" if she just was willing to put in that effort again.

Which she can't because she's a traumatized single mother of 5 kids.

I have been doing some reading and what I think she may have done in the initial stages of our relationship is referred to as "love-bombing". 

[G-String]

A good while ago you were mad she bought herself a car without talking to you.
Now you are upset that she booked a vacation (that she invited you on) without you.
I think there are more examples but I don't remember the specifics of them.

You're not going to be able to change her from making these independent decisions (nor should you). Given that, you need to decide if you can gracefully accept this aspect of her or not. Your many posts suggests not, but you still refuse to break up with her.

As someone else noted, I've really only seen you talk positively about her looks and the great sex.  It must be mind blowing for you to keep holding on is all I can say, albeit less frequent than ~5x a week. What else do you like about her?

I only come here to discuss problems with my GF.  I don't come here to post all the great things about her.  I come here for solutions to problems, which is why I only post the negative stuff here.  I assumed that was understood. 

[GuitarStv]

A good while ago you were mad she bought herself a car without talking to you.
Now you are upset that she booked a vacation (that she invited you on) without you.
I think there are more examples but I don't remember the specifics of them.

You're not going to be able to change her from making these independent decisions (nor should you). Given that, you need to decide if you can gracefully accept this aspect of her or not. Your many posts suggests not, but you still refuse to break up with her.

As someone else noted, I've really only seen you talk positively about her looks and the great sex.  It must be mind blowing for you to keep holding on is all I can say, albeit less frequent than ~5x a week. What else do you like about her?

Yep.

The car thing was completely unhinged, G-String.

Go back to what I said about how some people say "respect" when they mean "control."

This is not healthy.

You don't get it. Context is everything. She did not need my permission to buy the car.  But because she was actively discussing the car purchase with me over a number of weeks, almost on a daily basis.  Asking for my advice, thoughts etc.  Then out of nowhere decided to go buy it without telling me until after the fact was very odd.

No it wasn't.  She asked for your advice, got it, then made a decision on her own.  Seems perfectly normal.

[G-String]

A good while ago you were mad she bought herself a car without talking to you.
Now you are upset that she booked a vacation (that she invited you on) without you.
I think there are more examples but I don't remember the specifics of them.

You're not going to be able to change her from making these independent decisions (nor should you). Given that, you need to decide if you can gracefully accept this aspect of her or not. Your many posts suggests not, but you still refuse to break up with her.

As someone else noted, I've really only seen you talk positively about her looks and the great sex.  It must be mind blowing for you to keep holding on is all I can say, albeit less frequent than ~5x a week. What else do you like about her?

Yep.

The car thing was completely unhinged, G-String.

Go back to what I said about how some people say "respect" when they mean "control."

This is not healthy.

You don't get it. Context is everything. She did not need my permission to buy the car.  But because she was actively discussing the car purchase with me over a number of weeks, almost on a daily basis.  Asking for my advice, thoughts etc.  Then out of nowhere decided to go buy it without telling me until after the fact was very odd.

No it wasn't.  She asked for your advice, got it, then made a decision on her own.  Seems perfectly normal.

You're not in the relationship.  Based on the flow of our conversations over the weeks preceeding the purchase, it was very odd. 

[Metalcat]

In OP's defense, I have gotten quite a sense of what he likes about this woman.

The problem is that what he enjoyed most was when she was pushing herself to be more available to him and make him a priority than was realistic for her to sustain.

She claimed she could, and then as soon as he agreed to a serious commitment with her (whatever that means to either of them), she immediately began to pull back and make him less of a priority.

He has been angry at her ever since.

What he fell for was a version of this woman that doesn't exist. He's not willing to let go of that "potential" of what she "could be" if she just was willing to put in that effort again.

Which she can't because she's a traumatized single mother of 5 kids.

I have been doing some reading and what I think she may have done in the initial stages of our relationship is referred to as "love-bombing".

Yes, which is a common trauma behaviour. It's very unhealthy.

The healthy thing to do when one realizes that one has been love bombed is to accept that that situation was not real and to move on. Not to stick around and resent the person indefinitely for not being the unrealistic version of themselves that they tried to be in the beginning.

[G-String]

In OP's defense, I have gotten quite a sense of what he likes about this woman.

The problem is that what he enjoyed most was when she was pushing herself to be more available to him and make him a priority than was realistic for her to sustain.

She claimed she could, and then as soon as he agreed to a serious commitment with her (whatever that means to either of them), she immediately began to pull back and make him less of a priority.

He has been angry at her ever since.

What he fell for was a version of this woman that doesn't exist. He's not willing to let go of that "potential" of what she "could be" if she just was willing to put in that effort again.

Which she can't because she's a traumatized single mother of 5 kids.

I have been doing some reading and what I think she may have done in the initial stages of our relationship is referred to as "love-bombing".

Yes, which is a common trauma behaviour. It's very unhealthy.

The healthy thing to do when one realizes that one has been love bombed is to accept that that situation was not real and to move on. Not to stick around and resent the person indefinitely for not being the unrealistic version of themselves that they tried to be in the beginning.

How is it a common trauma behavior?  I also read it is common among people with narcissistic personality disorder? 

[hooplady]

G-string, you already have multiple threads going where you've asked for advice on what is "right" or "wrong" in your relationship and you are ignoring all of it. Now you've completely hijacked someone else's thread and are still arguing with the advice you're being given.

I won't bother giving you any advice since you're not open to it.

To answer the original question posed by the OP, yep, I did usually have issues in my relationships. However my frugality was only tangential - just one of many things to pick fights about. After therapy and much self-examination I realized I could be quite happy single.

[Kris]

A good while ago you were mad she bought herself a car without talking to you.
Now you are upset that she booked a vacation (that she invited you on) without you.
I think there are more examples but I don't remember the specifics of them.

You're not going to be able to change her from making these independent decisions (nor should you). Given that, you need to decide if you can gracefully accept this aspect of her or not. Your many posts suggests not, but you still refuse to break up with her.

As someone else noted, I've really only seen you talk positively about her looks and the great sex.  It must be mind blowing for you to keep holding on is all I can say, albeit less frequent than ~5x a week. What else do you like about her?

Yep.

The car thing was completely unhinged, G-String.

Go back to what I said about how some people say "respect" when they mean "control."

This is not healthy.

You don't get it. Context is everything. She did not need my permission to buy the car.  But because she was actively discussing the car purchase with me over a number of weeks, almost on a daily basis.  Asking for my advice, thoughts etc.  Then out of nowhere decided to go buy it without telling me until after the fact was very odd.

No it wasn't.  She asked for your advice, got it, then made a decision on her own.  Seems perfectly normal.

You're not in the relationship.  Based on the flow of our conversations over the weeks preceeding the purchase, it was very odd.

Sir, I am literally married to my husband. I was in the market for a new car for myself, budget pre-approved by both of us. My husband and I discussed it over a number of weeks, I asked him for his advice, etc. And then in the end, I made a decision and bought the car myself. Because it was my car to buy.

Clearly she thought it was her car to buy, as well. Which it was.

[Metalcat]

In OP's defense, I have gotten quite a sense of what he likes about this woman.

The problem is that what he enjoyed most was when she was pushing herself to be more available to him and make him a priority than was realistic for her to sustain.

She claimed she could, and then as soon as he agreed to a serious commitment with her (whatever that means to either of them), she immediately began to pull back and make him less of a priority.

He has been angry at her ever since.

What he fell for was a version of this woman that doesn't exist. He's not willing to let go of that "potential" of what she "could be" if she just was willing to put in that effort again.

Which she can't because she's a traumatized single mother of 5 kids.

I have been doing some reading and what I think she may have done in the initial stages of our relationship is referred to as "love-bombing".

Yes, which is a common trauma behaviour. It's very unhealthy.

The healthy thing to do when one realizes that one has been love bombed is to accept that that situation was not real and to move on. Not to stick around and resent the person indefinitely for not being the unrealistic version of themselves that they tried to be in the beginning.

How is it a common trauma behavior?  I also read it is common among people with narcissistic personality disorder?

Where did you think personality disorders come from???

Maybe she has a personality disorder, maybe she doesn't, that is so not for me or you to say.

Love bombing is always a control tactic, but it can come from an abusive place or an anxious place. Anxious folks with low self-esteem who feel like they're never enough tend to love bomb because they believe they aren't enough as they are to be loved. They feel they have to go all-out to appeal as a partner to someone, and they often think they can keep it up because they're so intensely motivated by the anxiety, but then it's unsustainable, and they inevitably disappoint their partner, which then leads to rejection, which then creates this self-perpetuating message that their true self isn't and never will be worthy of love, as they are.

So then they just become more and more willing to date worse and worse partners who offer them less and less acceptance.

[GuitarStv]

A good while ago you were mad she bought herself a car without talking to you.
Now you are upset that she booked a vacation (that she invited you on) without you.
I think there are more examples but I don't remember the specifics of them.

You're not going to be able to change her from making these independent decisions (nor should you). Given that, you need to decide if you can gracefully accept this aspect of her or not. Your many posts suggests not, but you still refuse to break up with her.

As someone else noted, I've really only seen you talk positively about her looks and the great sex.  It must be mind blowing for you to keep holding on is all I can say, albeit less frequent than ~5x a week. What else do you like about her?

Yep.

The car thing was completely unhinged, G-String.

Go back to what I said about how some people say "respect" when they mean "control."

This is not healthy.

You don't get it. Context is everything. She did not need my permission to buy the car.  But because she was actively discussing the car purchase with me over a number of weeks, almost on a daily basis.  Asking for my advice, thoughts etc.  Then out of nowhere decided to go buy it without telling me until after the fact was very odd.

No it wasn't.  She asked for your advice, got it, then made a decision on her own.  Seems perfectly normal.

You're not in the relationship.  Based on the flow of our conversations over the weeks preceeding the purchase, it was very odd.

Sir, I am literally married to my husband. I was in the market for a new car for myself, budget pre-approved by both of us. My husband and I discussed it over a number of weeks, I asked him for his advice, etc. And then in the end, I made a decision and bought the car myself. Because it was my car to buy.

Clearly she thought it was her car to buy, as well. Which it was.

If she didn't need permission to buy the car and she wasn't using your money, I guess I'm not following why you have concerns that she spent her own money to buy the car that she decided upon.

[G-String]

In OP's defense, I have gotten quite a sense of what he likes about this woman.

The problem is that what he enjoyed most was when she was pushing herself to be more available to him and make him a priority than was realistic for her to sustain.

She claimed she could, and then as soon as he agreed to a serious commitment with her (whatever that means to either of them), she immediately began to pull back and make him less of a priority.

He has been angry at her ever since.

What he fell for was a version of this woman that doesn't exist. He's not willing to let go of that "potential" of what she "could be" if she just was willing to put in that effort again.

Which she can't because she's a traumatized single mother of 5 kids.

I have been doing some reading and what I think she may have done in the initial stages of our relationship is referred to as "love-bombing".

Yes, which is a common trauma behaviour. It's very unhealthy.

The healthy thing to do when one realizes that one has been love bombed is to accept that that situation was not real and to move on. Not to stick around and resent the person indefinitely for not being the unrealistic version of themselves that they tried to be in the beginning.

How is it a common trauma behavior?  I also read it is common among people with narcissistic personality disorder?

Where did you think personality disorders come from???

Maybe she has a personality disorder, maybe she doesn't, that is so not for me or you to say.

Love bombing is always a control tactic, but it can come from an abusive place or an anxious place. Anxious folks with low self-esteem who feel like they're never enough tend to love bomb because they believe they aren't enough as they are to be loved. They feel they have to go all-out to appeal as a partner to someone, and they often think they can keep it up because they're so intensely motivated by the anxiety, but then it's unsustainable, and they inevitably disappoint their partner, which then leads to rejection, which then creates this self-perpetuating message that their true self isn't and never will be worthy of love, as they are.

So then they just become more and more willing to date worse and worse partners who offer them less and less acceptance.

Very interesting. The "anxious place" example really resonates with my GF. She has told me that she suffers from anxiety and her anxiety was sky-high when we first started dating and I was dating other women, where she was focused only on me.  Me dating other women caused her tremendous anxiety.  And once we were exclusive and I stopped dating other women, her anxiety went down, but that is when our relationship also started to decline.

Seems that if I want this relationship to work, I need to simply forget about the love-bombing phase, and see if I can accept the current version of her, because the love-bombing phase is never coming back.   

[TreeLeaf]

@G-String

You could start a journal where you document your relationship and ask for advice. Just a thought.

I had a journal here a couple years ago about my life, which I have since deleted, but the feedback and advice in my journal was very useful and insightful for me.

ETA: there is a section of the forum specifically for personal journals.

[G-String]

@G-String

You could start a journal where you document your relationship and ask for advice. Just a thought.

I had a journal here a couple years ago about my life, which I have since deleted, but the feedback and advice in my journal was very useful and insightful for me.

ETA: there is a section of the forum specifically for personal journals.

Thank you for the suggestion.  I did not know that.  Is it possible for a moderator to transfer all of my content from this thread into a journal? 

[Catbert]

Okay, I'll try to explain her behavior in this particular instance.  I, ah, have a friend that I can envision in this vacation dilemma.  She's clearly concerned (rightly or wrongly) that you would be angry with her scheduling a vacation covering this date.  She has several options:  (a) tell you immediately possibly leading to weeks or months of you complaining and being angry (b) not telling you until the last minute and only have to have days of complaining/anger or (c) you'll keep discussing what you want to plan for your anniversary but never actually doing anything so the vacation magically becomes not a conflict.

I can see my "friend" avoiding (a), going with (b), and hoping it turns into (c).

 

[use2betrix]

@G-String

You could start a journal where you document your relationship and ask for advice. Just a thought.

I had a journal here a couple years ago about my life, which I have since deleted, but the feedback and advice in my journal was very useful and insightful for me.

ETA: there is a section of the forum specifically for personal journals.

I think you’d need to do it manually. If that doesn’t seem a valuable use of time, I have no worry that you’ll be able to fill it with plenty of current relationship content quite quickly.
Thank you for the suggestion.  I did not know that.  Is it possible for a moderator to transfer all of my content from this thread into a journal?

[Villanelle]

@G-String

You could start a journal where you document your relationship and ask for advice. Just a thought.

I had a journal here a couple years ago about my life, which I have since deleted, but the feedback and advice in my journal was very useful and insightful for me.

ETA: there is a section of the forum specifically for personal journals.

Thank you for the suggestion.  I did not know that.  Is it possible for a moderator to transfer all of my content from this thread into a journal?

You can start a journal, you don't need a mod to do that (and wouldn't want them to, as then you won't be the author of the thread).  It's just like starting any other thread/topic.  If you want all of the back posts, you should be able to link them there.  It may be time consuming, but asking the mods to use their time instead of using your own is probably not going to work.  (If you need help linking specific posts in a different thread, someone can explain it to you.)

[Metalcat]

In OP's defense, I have gotten quite a sense of what he likes about this woman.

The problem is that what he enjoyed most was when she was pushing herself to be more available to him and make him a priority than was realistic for her to sustain.

She claimed she could, and then as soon as he agreed to a serious commitment with her (whatever that means to either of them), she immediately began to pull back and make him less of a priority.

He has been angry at her ever since.

What he fell for was a version of this woman that doesn't exist. He's not willing to let go of that "potential" of what she "could be" if she just was willing to put in that effort again.

Which she can't because she's a traumatized single mother of 5 kids.

I have been doing some reading and what I think she may have done in the initial stages of our relationship is referred to as "love-bombing".

Yes, which is a common trauma behaviour. It's very unhealthy.

The healthy thing to do when one realizes that one has been love bombed is to accept that that situation was not real and to move on. Not to stick around and resent the person indefinitely for not being the unrealistic version of themselves that they tried to be in the beginning.

How is it a common trauma behavior?  I also read it is common among people with narcissistic personality disorder?

Where did you think personality disorders come from???

Maybe she has a personality disorder, maybe she doesn't, that is so not for me or you to say.

Love bombing is always a control tactic, but it can come from an abusive place or an anxious place. Anxious folks with low self-esteem who feel like they're never enough tend to love bomb because they believe they aren't enough as they are to be loved. They feel they have to go all-out to appeal as a partner to someone, and they often think they can keep it up because they're so intensely motivated by the anxiety, but then it's unsustainable, and they inevitably disappoint their partner, which then leads to rejection, which then creates this self-perpetuating message that their true self isn't and never will be worthy of love, as they are.

So then they just become more and more willing to date worse and worse partners who offer them less and less acceptance.

Very interesting. The "anxious place" example really resonates with my GF. She has told me that she suffers from anxiety and her anxiety was sky-high when we first started dating and I was dating other women, where she was focused only on me.  Me dating other women caused her tremendous anxiety.  And once we were exclusive and I stopped dating other women, her anxiety went down, but that is when our relationship also started to decline.

Seems that if I want this relationship to work, I need to simply forget about the love-bombing phase, and see if I can accept the current version of her, because the love-bombing phase is never coming back.

YES!!!!

That is 100% what I have been trying to say to you in a thousand different ways from the beginning.

I'm very happy the message got received. Sometimes it takes a reframe for things to make sense.

That's EXACTLY it. You must let go of what you got from her in the initial phase, it wasn't real and is never going to come back, not in a meaningful or sustainable way.

What she is giving you is what you get. You can either accept that AS IS or move on.

[spartana]

G-string, you already have multiple threads going where you've asked for advice on what is "right" or "wrong" in your relationship and you are ignoring all of it. Now you've completely hijacked someone else's thread and are still arguing with the advice you're being given.

I won't bother giving you any advice since you're not open to it.

To answer the original question posed by the OP, yep, I did usually have issues in my relationships. However my frugality was only tangential - just one of many things to pick fights about. After therapy and much self-examination I realized I could be quite happy single.

I also came here to post something about the OP but got sucked into the sidebar thread so didn't bother to respond to the OP. Too bad as I think it's a worthy topic to talk about for couples who might have different views about money, savings vs. spending, and FIRE plans. Maybe the @leevs11 will start another thread about it.

[ixtap]

In OP's defense, I have gotten quite a sense of what he likes about this woman.

The problem is that what he enjoyed most was when she was pushing herself to be more available to him and make him a priority than was realistic for her to sustain.

She claimed she could, and then as soon as he agreed to a serious commitment with her (whatever that means to either of them), she immediately began to pull back and make him less of a priority.

He has been angry at her ever since.

What he fell for was a version of this woman that doesn't exist. He's not willing to let go of that "potential" of what she "could be" if she just was willing to put in that effort again.

Which she can't because she's a traumatized single mother of 5 kids.

I have been doing some reading and what I think she may have done in the initial stages of our relationship is referred to as "love-bombing".

Yes, which is a common trauma behaviour. It's very unhealthy.

The healthy thing to do when one realizes that one has been love bombed is to accept that that situation was not real and to move on. Not to stick around and resent the person indefinitely for not being the unrealistic version of themselves that they tried to be in the beginning.

How is it a common trauma behavior?  I also read it is common among people with narcissistic personality disorder?

Where did you think personality disorders come from???

Maybe she has a personality disorder, maybe she doesn't, that is so not for me or you to say.

Love bombing is always a control tactic, but it can come from an abusive place or an anxious place. Anxious folks with low self-esteem who feel like they're never enough tend to love bomb because they believe they aren't enough as they are to be loved. They feel they have to go all-out to appeal as a partner to someone, and they often think they can keep it up because they're so intensely motivated by the anxiety, but then it's unsustainable, and they inevitably disappoint their partner, which then leads to rejection, which then creates this self-perpetuating message that their true self isn't and never will be worthy of love, as they are.

So then they just become more and more willing to date worse and worse partners who offer them less and less acceptance.

Very interesting. The "anxious place" example really resonates with my GF. She has told me that she suffers from anxiety and her anxiety was sky-high when we first started dating and I was dating other women, where she was focused only on me.  Me dating other women caused her tremendous anxiety.  And once we were exclusive and I stopped dating other women, her anxiety went down, but that is when our relationship also started to decline.

Seems that if I want this relationship to work, I need to simply forget about the love-bombing phase, and see if I can accept the current version of her, because the love-bombing phase is never coming back.

YES!!!!

That is 100% what I have been trying to say to you in a thousand different ways from the beginning.

I'm very happy the message got received. Sometimes it takes a reframe for things to make sense.

That's EXACTLY it. You must let go of what you got from her in the initial phase, it wasn't real and is never going to come back, not in a meaningful or sustainable way.

What she is giving you is what you get. You can either accept that AS IS or move on.

Accepting the current version of your partner is a choice that you may have to make many times over a long term relationship. As DH learns to deal with his chronic pain and his mental health, there have been regular shifts in his priorities and our interactions. Luckily, his most recent shift has been overwhelmingly positive from my perspective; I have felt more like I can settle into this than chosing to accept this. But often my response is more "WTF now and is it still worth trying to keep up?!?"

[G-String]

In OP's defense, I have gotten quite a sense of what he likes about this woman.

The problem is that what he enjoyed most was when she was pushing herself to be more available to him and make him a priority than was realistic for her to sustain.

She claimed she could, and then as soon as he agreed to a serious commitment with her (whatever that means to either of them), she immediately began to pull back and make him less of a priority.

He has been angry at her ever since.

What he fell for was a version of this woman that doesn't exist. He's not willing to let go of that "potential" of what she "could be" if she just was willing to put in that effort again.

Which she can't because she's a traumatized single mother of 5 kids.

I have been doing some reading and what I think she may have done in the initial stages of our relationship is referred to as "love-bombing".

Yes, which is a common trauma behaviour. It's very unhealthy.

The healthy thing to do when one realizes that one has been love bombed is to accept that that situation was not real and to move on. Not to stick around and resent the person indefinitely for not being the unrealistic version of themselves that they tried to be in the beginning.

How is it a common trauma behavior?  I also read it is common among people with narcissistic personality disorder?

Where did you think personality disorders come from???

Maybe she has a personality disorder, maybe she doesn't, that is so not for me or you to say.

Love bombing is always a control tactic, but it can come from an abusive place or an anxious place. Anxious folks with low self-esteem who feel like they're never enough tend to love bomb because they believe they aren't enough as they are to be loved. They feel they have to go all-out to appeal as a partner to someone, and they often think they can keep it up because they're so intensely motivated by the anxiety, but then it's unsustainable, and they inevitably disappoint their partner, which then leads to rejection, which then creates this self-perpetuating message that their true self isn't and never will be worthy of love, as they are.

So then they just become more and more willing to date worse and worse partners who offer them less and less acceptance.

Very interesting. The "anxious place" example really resonates with my GF. She has told me that she suffers from anxiety and her anxiety was sky-high when we first started dating and I was dating other women, where she was focused only on me.  Me dating other women caused her tremendous anxiety.  And once we were exclusive and I stopped dating other women, her anxiety went down, but that is when our relationship also started to decline.

Seems that if I want this relationship to work, I need to simply forget about the love-bombing phase, and see if I can accept the current version of her, because the love-bombing phase is never coming back.

YES!!!!

That is 100% what I have been trying to say to you in a thousand different ways from the beginning.

I'm very happy the message got received. Sometimes it takes a reframe for things to make sense.

That's EXACTLY it. You must let go of what you got from her in the initial phase, it wasn't real and is never going to come back, not in a meaningful or sustainable way.

What she is giving you is what you get. You can either accept that AS IS or move on.

This might be a breakthrough for me and my relationship with my GF.  I have been constantly chasing the first 3-4 months of our relationship and have been often resentful for her misleading me.  My assumption was that her misleading me (love-bombing) was from a place of evil. I am now seeing it was from a place of fear and anxiety, which is something I can better sympathize with, and understand.  Seems I need to forget the first 3-4 months because that is what she used to get me "hooked" and I now need to re-learn that the last 8 months are the real her, and I need to either accept that or move on.  But I cannot keep chasing those first 3-4 months. 

During those first 3-4 months she tried to make herself seem like my ideal partner who was available all the time, wanted sex all the time, could travel whenever I wanted etc.  She even lied about little things like when I told her I wake up super early every morning, she said she did the same thing, which I now see is not true.  I have been trying to hold her to this standard, and her not living up to the first 3-4 months made me see her as a liar, but it seems it was more from a place of anxiety/trauma, and not necessarily evil. 

[Omy]

That's a huge breakthrough.

I think most of us try to put our best foot forward when dating someone new, but it's a whole new level when someone changes who they are to hook their partner.

My first experience with lovebombing was with a malignant narcissist. He studied me so he could become my perfect partner until I was hooked, but after a couple months he couldn't keep the mask on any longer. Then he became unrecognizable, but my confusion and hope that perfect guy would come back kept me in the relationship longer than it should have.

He was also great at sensing when I'd had enough and he'd throw the mask on for a few days to pull me back in. His behavior kept me off balance and "chasing" the thrill of the masked guy.

If narcissism is what you're dealing with it's not fixable, RUN don't walk.

I have no idea how difficult it is to fix if her behavior is coming from a place of anxiety and trauma instead of narcissism, but she has a lot of work to do before she can become a good partner to you. And you'd have a lot of work to do to become a good partner to her.

The only way this works long term is if you both do the work...or if you are able to meet her where she is and give up on a lot of your wants and needs. My guess is that it would have to be the latter since I don't see her having the time or energy to work on her "stuff".

[Metalcat]

This might be a breakthrough for me and my relationship with my GF.  I have been constantly chasing the first 3-4 months of our relationship and have been often resentful for her misleading me.  My assumption was that her misleading me (love-bombing) was from a place of evil. I am now seeing it was from a place of fear and anxiety, which is something I can better sympathize with, and understand.  Seems I need to forget the first 3-4 months because that is what she used to get me "hooked" and I now need to re-learn that the last 8 months are the real her, and I need to either accept that or move on.  But I cannot keep chasing those first 3-4 months. 

During those first 3-4 months she tried to make herself seem like my ideal partner who was available all the time, wanted sex all the time, could travel whenever I wanted etc.  She even lied about little things like when I told her I wake up super early every morning, she said she did the same thing, which I now see is not true.  I have been trying to hold her to this standard, and her not living up to the first 3-4 months made me see her as a liar, but it seems it was more from a place of anxiety/trauma, and not necessarily evil.

Exactly!!!

That's a great breakthrough and I really commend you for *trying* to understand. I get that the way we have been explaining this has not been resonating with you, and that you just feel misunderstood and attacked.

But yes, everyone reading is seeing very clearly that her behaviours do not come from a place of malice.

Yes, she did intentionally mislead you, we all see that, which is I think something you haven't understood that we all see. We just don't see her as a bad person for having done this. She was likely misleading herself too at the time, thinking that just maybe she could push herself hard enough to be what you wanted.

And yes, once you committed and her anxiety reduced a bit, the drive to behave unrealistically also reduced and so did her capacity to keep up the effort. Reality set in that she just can't be what she tried to be.

Some of that may have been conscious and some of it unconscious. Can anxious people be highly manipulative? Absolutely. The world is filled with people pleasers who do overtly nice things while secretly resenting people around them.

Anxiety produces all sorts of manipulative behaviours from a place of intense fear. Fear of conflict, fear of being judged, fear of being abandoned, fear of rejection, fear of failure, etc, etc.

Is it okay for you to see this behaviour, see that you were manipulated from a place of fear and feel betrayed and disappointed? Absolutely, it sucks being bait and switched.

But it's unfathomably cruel to stay with her and hold her up to a standard that she cannot live up to. You are and will continue to cause here severe emotional damage if you do that.

Just because you feel betrayed and manipulated doesn't mean you can't be compassionate as to the reasons *why* she behaved as she did. She acted out of intense fear and low self worth.

Her motivation was that she liked you SO MUCH and thought you were SO UNOBTAINABLE that she pushed herself well beyond her capacity to be more for you than she realistically ever could be in a sustainable way.

And now that you are constantly disappointed in her, she is constantly stressed that you will leave her. Which is driving even more fear-based behaviours, some of which, yes, are likely manipulative.

This is why you've been so confused.

You are accurately seeing that she is manipulating you, but what you are not seeing is the fragile, hurt, human behind those behaviours.

If you are not capable of being loving and compassionate to her and understanding why she behaves as she does, and providing the kind of loving, non judgemental support she will need to heal from her emotional wounds and learn to trust and communicate in a healthy way, then you are just another force of damage in her already unmanageable world.

FTR, I do some marriage counselling and when a partner understands with compassion where a trauma behaviour comes from, they can handle and manage very, very severe negative behaviours from their partner if they truly love and respect them.

The key is that their priority isn't to "get what they deserve" from their spouse, their priority is to support that spouse in healing the wounds that drive their unhealthy behaviours.

Ask yourself honestly if you have the capacity to be a partner to a woman with 5 kids AND be the kind of non judgemental support she would need to slowly heal from her psychological wounds?

If you can't approach her non judgementally you will 10000% cause her harm.

And up to this point, you have done an enormous amount of judging her. Well beyond what most reasonable partners would do.

This is why everyone is yelling at you.

To be a good partner to her will require enormous compassion and patience. You need to understand YOUR obligations to being a safe partner to her if you want to continue.

Be honest with yourself if you are actually up to the task and if what you can get from her is even worth it to you.

Are you really willing to be endlessly compassionate and patient with her conflict avoidant behaviours and fear-based manipulations. Are you willing to do so for years while she very, very slowly builds the capacity to trust and to engage in healthy conflict without her nervous system overloading with fear?

Are you willing to consistently do this for YEARS while she continues to not offer you nearly as much time, attention, and sex as you would prefer??

Is this *actually* worth it to you??

Be honest with yourself. Being the partner to someone with trauma and anxiety (and 5 kids) is an enormous responsibility.

Do *you* actually have the capacity to be a good partner to *her*???

It's okay if you don't. But if you don't, then leave. Right now you are causing a traumatized single mother emotional harm. Right now, you are the bad guy in this situation. You just don't realize it.

I know that's hard to accept as the person who was deceived, but you need to catch up, understand her better, and realize how your behaviour is extremely toxic to her.

You are causing her harm. You are. And you need to do something about it.

[G-String]

That's a huge breakthrough.

I think most of us try to put our best foot forward when dating someone new, but it's a whole new level when someone changes who they are to hook their partner.

My first experience with lovebombing was with a malignant narcissist. He studied me so he could become my perfect partner until I was hooked, but after a couple months he couldn't keep the mask on any longer. Then he became unrecognizable, but my confusion and hope that perfect guy would come back kept me in the relationship longer than it should have.

He was also great at sensing when I'd had enough and he'd throw the mask on for a few days to pull me back in. His behavior kept me off balance and "chasing" the thrill of the masked guy.

If narcissism is what you're dealing with it's not fixable, RUN don't walk.

I have no idea how difficult it is to fix if her behavior is coming from a place of anxiety and trauma instead of narcissism, but she has a lot of work to do before she can become a good partner to you. And you'd have a lot of work to do to become a good partner to her.

The only way this works long term is if you both do the work...or if you are able to meet her where she is and give up on a lot of your wants and needs. My guess is that it would have to be the latter since I don't see her having the time or energy to work on her "stuff".

Yes I now need to figure out if this is anxiety/trauma related which I can empathize with and be patient with, or if she is a narcissist.  She does have some narcissistic traits like being low on empathy, obsessed with her image and social media etc.

[Metalcat]

That's a huge breakthrough.

I think most of us try to put our best foot forward when dating someone new, but it's a whole new level when someone changes who they are to hook their partner.

My first experience with lovebombing was with a malignant narcissist. He studied me so he could become my perfect partner until I was hooked, but after a couple months he couldn't keep the mask on any longer. Then he became unrecognizable, but my confusion and hope that perfect guy would come back kept me in the relationship longer than it should have.

He was also great at sensing when I'd had enough and he'd throw the mask on for a few days to pull me back in. His behavior kept me off balance and "chasing" the thrill of the masked guy.

If narcissism is what you're dealing with it's not fixable, RUN don't walk.

I have no idea how difficult it is to fix if her behavior is coming from a place of anxiety and trauma instead of narcissism, but she has a lot of work to do before she can become a good partner to you. And you'd have a lot of work to do to become a good partner to her.

The only way this works long term is if you both do the work...or if you are able to meet her where she is and give up on a lot of your wants and needs. My guess is that it would have to be the latter since I don't see her having the time or energy to work on her "stuff".

Yes I now need to figure out of this is anxiety/trauma related which I can empathize with and be patient with, or if she is a narcissist.  She does have some narcissistic traits like being low on empathy, obsessed with her image and social media etc.

I would encourage you to not armchair diagnose.

FTR, personality disorders are usually caused by trauma.

Also, being fixated on appearance and image can also be a product of fear and insecurity.

Regardless of whether she's just criminally insecure and anxious or whether she has a personality disorder, the end result is the same. She has psychological damage from trauma and you are making it worse.

Labeling her a "narcissist" is not a "gotcha" that magically puts the blame and responsibility on her and makes it okay for you to stick around and judge her constantly for how she's failing to be good enough for you.

And the trurh is that trauma is highly complex and even the psychological profession isn't at all clear on the line between what we label as a trauma behaviour and what we label as a personality disorder. It's far more of a messy spectrum that a neat and clean delineation where one category is deserving of compassion and the other isn't.

That's not how humans work.

If you choose to partner with someone with untreated trauma, you are signing up to handle unreasonable behaviour.

It's 100% okay to not want to partner with people with untreated trauma. Personally I would NEVER date someone with a significant trauma history if they weren't actively addressing their symptoms in therapy.

I don't blame you AT ALL if you don't want to handle her trauma symptoms.

I ONLY blame you if you stick around and make them worse, which is exactly what you are doing.

She's not entitled to you putting up with her issues. But you are not entitled to stay with her unless you are willing to. 

[Captain FIRE]

@G-String, any update? Have you taken any concrete steps to either end the relationship or to fully accept the partner you have (rather than the one that you want)?

[LongtimeLurker]

I will give you an example:  my DH routinely goes out to lunch with friends from work -- and he really, really enjoys picking up the tab.  When we were first married, that drove me absolutely batshit crazy; I brown-bagged every day and ate at my desk, so I resented him frittering away the money I was saving and then some.  When I talked to him about it, I found out two things. (1) He needs a mental break from work during the day.  Going out to lunch, talking with friends, etc. gave him that break.  I was focused on jamming through all my work so I could get home sooner, so eating at my desk worked for me.  But he's not me.  (2) Being able to treat his friends made him feel like a success -- it was a conscious reminder to himself about how far he had come.  Now, I'm not a guy, and I've never had the big-dick argument over who picks up the check, but I have seen it enough to understand that it's a Thing.  And clearly it was an important Thing to him.  So I let it go.  I still don't "get" it, even after 25+ years.  But I don't have to get it -- I know it matters to him, and that's good enough for me. 

^
This is probably the best relationship advice in this thread.


I know the thread was hijacked, but back on topic. My wife and I rarely argue and when we do, it is always over the stupidest shit imaginable, like who was supposed to buy the hot dog buns. It rarely lasts more than an afternoon and then its all lovey-dovey again.

It wasn't always this way, though. We argued quite a bit when first moving in together, usually over division of labor, lack of trust, etc... I think that is fairly normal; we just had to set some boundaries and get used to how the other person lived. Young children also put a lot of stress into a relationship. They are very needy and so the partner usually gets the short stick for awhile.